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RodWoodsonwasprettycool
08-10-2009, 06:35 PM
BEREA, Ohio – In the push and pull that goes on between players and coaches in the NFL, sometimes it’s better to give a little.

Flashback to Saturday afternoon, as cool rain pelted Cleveland Browns practice for two hours. As the Browns went through a practice that emulated game-type situations, the team’s field house was only 50 feet away. As quarterback Derek Anderson(notes) went back to pass once, the ball slipped out of his hand. At other times, passing was rudimentary, at best. The speed of practice slowed as players became careful. At one point, wide receiver Syndric Steptoe(notes) suffered what is believed to be a season-ending left shoulder injury.

While coach Eric Mangini said Sunday that the conditions at practice on Saturday were “irrelevant” to Steptoe’s injury, perception sometimes is reality. If players think that Steptoe’s injury was because the team practiced in the rain, that’s fact.

“Sometimes you just run into a coach who wants it his way and that’s it,” said one Browns veteran, requesting anonymity. “Yeah, the practices are harder [than under previous coach Romeo Crennel], but that’s not the problem. It’s little things, stuff that shouldn’t mean much in the big picture.”

Defensive end David Bowens(notes), who played for Mangini with the New York Jets, doesn’t disagree with his coach’s aggressive approach.

“Eric wants things done a certain way,” Bowens said. “He’s trying to establish the foundation. I understand it from being in New York. He’s a young coach, trying to show people what he wants.”

If you listen to Mangini for a couple of days, what he wants is hard work, intelligence and discipline. Those three things play on a loop for Mangini, who has perfected the didactic speech pattern of mentor Bill Belichick. Even in private moments, when Belichick will often let down his guard with people he knows, Mangini measures his words as if using an atomic scale.

While hard work, intelligence and discipline are fine virtues and certainly necessary to success, there’s one thing that Mangini seems to overlook or at least not place in as high regard: talent.

More specifically, how to deal with it.

“You can tell that he knows football backward and forward,” Pro Bowl offensive tackle Joe Thomas(notes) said.

But, said another former Jets player: “His problem is that he doesn’t know how to relate to the really talented guys. … It’s like he thinks everybody is exactly the same and should respond the same way. In this league, you have to know how to push the right buttons with certain guys. The players really run the show and a lot of the really good players, they’re going to test you. The great coaches know how to push back on those guys.”

In Cleveland, that situation is already playing out. Talented and enigmatic tight end Kellen Winslow(notes), seeking a new contract at the time, has been traded away. Mangini butted heads with defensive tackle Shaun Rogers(notes), who is buying in more now but is hardly completely on board. Finally, there’s wide receiver Braylon Edwards(notes). Once on the trade block, Edwards is now in an almost perpetually testy mood.

With Rogers, the situation is almost amusing. Mangini has a rule that players must run a lap every time they make a mental error. Rookie Alex Mack(notes) has “run so much that he should be in great shape,” Mangini said with a light smile Sunday.

Rogers, who is part goof with his array of one-liners and this gigantic, jewel-encrusted Incredible Hulk medallion that hangs off a long chain around his neck, has taken to “running” laps in a mocking way. He actually walks the laps while pumping his arms hard to simulate running.

“You’re going to have to ask coach Mangini about them laps,” Rogers said.

As for Edwards, he was decidedly curt Sunday. Edwards had been seeking a new contract this offseason. After that didn’t pan out, he wanted to be traded and the Browns were willing to oblige, but the New York Giants weren’t willing to meet the price … at least not yet.

When asked if he was willing to go the route of Atlanta wide receiver Roddy White(notes), who held out recently to get a new deal, Edwards said: “Why are you asking me about Roddy White? Roddy White doesn’t play for the Browns. Ask me about somebody who plays for the Browns.”

As Edwards walked away, he was asked to assess the quarterback battle between Anderson and Brady Quinn(notes) (a battle neither is winning in a decided fashion through the first two weeks of camp). Before the question was finished, Edwards snapped: “I’m not talking about Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson. We’ve had a quarterback controversy here for three or four years now. Whatever Coach Mangini decides, that’s it.”

Mangini also has his Tom Coughlinesque side. There is no grace for making weight. Where many coaches won’t fine players for being two, three or even five pounds over their prescribed weight, Mangini fines guys for every pound. Throw that on top of Mangini’s continued treatment of rookies (he made this year’s class take a 10-hour bus ride to and from a youth camp and continues to enforce offseason curfew) and you have a coach who tends to push people in ways that aren’t always considered very productive.

“Guys will get used to it,” Bowens said. “The second year, he eases up. He’s just trying to establish himself.”

Perhaps, but in the fine line between discipline and punishment, it often pays for a coach to get players to buy into the system a little more.

“If he’d just lighten up a little once in awhile, he’d probably get guys on his side,” one player said. “Just something, just a little bit.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-brownscamp081009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

devilsdancefloor
08-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Sounds as if he is losing all the guys. They are gonna end up just going through the motions (some already have it sounds as though rogers is flipping him the bird on his "laps").sounds liek another 4-12 or 3-13 season for the brownies.

beSteelmyheart
08-10-2009, 07:21 PM
One can't help but wonder if the players aren't just spoiled & complaining about the added workload...That one line about pratices being easier with Crennel speaks volumes. It'll be an interesting season with those guys, no doubt. I'm curious to see what Mangini does on the field.

SteelTalons
08-10-2009, 08:55 PM
I guess Mangini couldn't stand the thought of McDaniels outdoing him when it comes to being the biggest coaching bust of the 09'-10' season. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
08-10-2009, 09:37 PM
i cant even read through this article because i care about the browns so little. i had to stop here-


If you listen to Mangini for a couple of days, what he wants is hard work, intelligence and discipline.

hey eric. wake up. what you got is a bunch of lazy, non intelligent, undisciplined players.

asking yourself "what would tomlin do" wont help. mikes got players like ward who seem to be irritated by being held out of practice.

good luck brownpies.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-11-2009, 02:36 AM
Eric Mangini had taken over a lazy football team that is use to easy practices and not being disciplined for making mistakes.

However there is a fine line between disciplining a player for a mistake and punishing a player. Mangini might be crossing that line, some feel he did while he was with New York.

He very well might lose this team by the third game of the season.

I say the Browns will be LUCKY to win 4 games this season.

MasterOfPuppets
08-11-2009, 04:44 AM
looks like another top 10 pick for the browns ...berry, mays, or dunlap ?

stlrtruck
08-11-2009, 08:56 AM
Eric Mangini had taken over a lazy football team that is use to easy practices and not being disciplined for making mistakes.

However there is a fine line between disciplining a player for a mistake and punishing a player. Mangini might be crossing that line, some feel he did while he was with New York.

He very well might lose this team by the third game of the season.

I say the Browns will be LUCKY to win 4 games this season.

Kind of remind me of Tomlin's first year as HC. He took over training camp and he pushed it his way. And while it ruffled a few feathers, he also made a point about this being his camp, his team, and NOT Cowher's. It sent a message to players about who was the coach. And I really think that set the tone for his second season.

HOWEVER, the big difference is that Tomlin was able to learn from his players and from his first year. The second year he changed his tone and setup camp a lot differently.

The question remains, "Can Mangini learn from this and move forward or stay stuck in the rut?" As has been stated already, good luck brownpies!

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 10:20 AM
I don't think it makes much difference who coaches that team at this point...the stench of failure has permeated every pore of the organization...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Kind of remind me of Tomlin's first year as HC. He took over training camp and he pushed it his way. And while it ruffled a few feathers, he also made a point about this being his camp, his team, and NOT Cowher's. It sent a message to players about who was the coach. And I really think that set the tone for his second season.

HOWEVER, the big difference is that Tomlin was able to learn from his players and from his first year. The second year he changed his tone and setup camp a lot differently.

The question remains, "Can Mangini learn from this and move forward or stay stuck in the rut?" As has been stated already, good luck brownpies!

Wait for the outrage. How dare you compare a proven winner like Tomlin to Mangini. :blah:

Thank you for this post. Most coaches do better in the 2nd stop than they did in their first. Most coaches will do a little better in their 2nd season than in their first. I think that once Maginini get's the players to play his way, there will be improvement. Even Shaun Rogers is buying into the system...and when you consider how that started...it can't be too terrible a thing.

I don't think it makes much difference who coaches that team at this point...the stench of failure has permeated every pore of the organization...

As I recall, the Steelers had a history that would have indicated the same thing. It's been a while, but it was there.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 10:50 AM
The Browns will have a much steeper climb, since they have had basically almost no success since the days when the league had 12 teams...as I've stated before, I'd rather suck amongst 12 teams and dominate when there are 32 rather than vice-versa...nobody cared much back then anyway...the first Super Bowl didn't even sell out...

xfl2001fan
08-11-2009, 10:54 AM
They do have quite the hill to climb...but you criticize every move they make. Yours is a blind hatred.

revefsreleets
08-11-2009, 10:57 AM
They do have quite the hill to climb...but you criticize every move they make. Yours is a blind hatred.

That's absolutely and patently false. I live here...I read about them every day...I'm INUNDATED with Browns news.

They fail year in and year out for pretty much the same reasons. Pointing out repeat pattern failure is the polar opposite of blind hatred...and I don't hate the Browns at all. Mostly just pity them...

Fire Haley
08-13-2009, 10:36 AM
Browns fans had their hearts broken when Cowher turned them down flat and they had to settle for Mangenius after his failure in NY.
Don't forget, Lerner grabbed him the day after he was FIRED by the Jets.

Jets fans absolutely hated him.

"Mangini has To Go" at Footballsfuture.com

"Mangini's clock management was horrendous as exemplified by using all timeouts halfway through the 2nd quarter and calling a timeout when the Patriots had a crucial 3rd and 2 which took the crowd out of the game. In addition, Mangini made no visible adjustments to the Patriots short passing game and delay running plays which was basically their entire offense. In sum, Mangini will never get the Jets where they want to go and the team's spending of millions this offseason will just go to waste."

"Mangini and the whole coaching staff is a joke. plain and simple. 23-25 spells LOSER to me. If he was still a first year coach i might be able to excuse the mental mistakes and all of the penalties, but this is his 3rd year. This is by far the damn dumbest Jets team i have ever seen. The play calling is horrendus, clock management is pitiful, and awnser me this why trade for Brett Favre if your gonna handcuff him into being Chad Pennington. Does he do anything but teach the playbook?? Fundamentally and mentally this team is weak."

RoethlisBURGHer
08-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Browns fans had their hearts broken when Cowher turned them down flat and they had to settle for Mangenius after his failure in NY.
Don't forget, Lerner grabbed him the day after he was FIRED by the Jets.

Jets fans absolutely hated him.

"Mangini has To Go" at Footballsfuture.com

"Mangini's clock management was horrendous as exemplified by using all timeouts halfway through the 2nd quarter and calling a timeout when the Patriots had a crucial 3rd and 2 which took the crowd out of the game. In addition, Mangini made no visible adjustments to the Patriots short passing game and delay running plays which was basically their entire offense. In sum, Mangini will never get the Jets where they want to go and the team's spending of millions this offseason will just go to waste."

"Mangini and the whole coaching staff is a joke. plain and simple. 23-25 spells LOSER to me. If he was still a first year coach i might be able to excuse the mental mistakes and all of the penalties, but this is his 3rd year. This is by far the damn dumbest Jets team i have ever seen. The play calling is horrendus, clock management is pitiful, and awnser me this why trade for Brett Favre if your gonna handcuff him into being Chad Pennington. Does he do anything but teach the playbook?? Fundamentally and mentally this team is weak."

And it won't be any different this year in Cleveland.

Browns fans say that he's going to make this team a smart, disciplined bunch. But a leopard cannot change it's spots...this team is still the Cleveland Browns.

Either a not very good Derek Anderson or a very unproven Brady Quinn at QB.

Braylon Edwards' unsure hands (if he can stay on the field long enough to have a pass thrown his way) and a rookie as the starting wideouts.

An old Jamal Lewis and Jerome Harrison (who is a big play threat, but I don't know if he can run between the tackles) are the top two running backs.

The offensive line should be pretty good, probably the bright spot of the team/offense.

On defense, you have Shaun Rogers at NT, the best player on the defense. At ILB they have D'Qwell Jackson, a tackling machine. Everyone else on the defense is questionable at best, IMHO.

Mangina also brought in a lot of ex-Jets this year. He should have gotten the Jets first rounder for this past draft and next year's draft for the #5 overall pick but instead took a bunch of Jets that were never more than role players anyhow.