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mesaSteeler
08-16-2009, 12:00 PM
Should we be concerned about the running game?
Steelers Q&A with Ed Bouchette
Sunday, August 16, 2009
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09228/991318-367.stm

Peter Diana/Post-Gazette The Steelers' Rashard Mendenhall finds a hole and picks up three yards against the Cardinals in the first quarter of a preseason game at Heinz Field.

Q: Should we be concerned about the lack of a running game after Thursday's performance? Do you attribute the poor average of 2.8 yards per rush to the performance of the offensive line or the running backs? Is this a concern or just the fact that this was the first pre-season game?

John Sauers, Flower Mound, Texas

BOUCHETTE: I would not be concerned about the stats on the running game from Thursday night. Typically, the running game takes a little longer to get going, they played with a first-year center who probably will not start the season and without Willie Parker or Mewelde Moore. After the first units, they are going with young linemen and young backs and the precision usually is not there either.

First published on August 16, 2009 at 1:13 am

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09228/991318-367.stm#ixzz0OLmpQdHY

tyler289
08-16-2009, 12:01 PM
Being concerned about the running game after one preseason game is a bit much, IMO.

SteelCityMan786
08-16-2009, 12:09 PM
Being concerned about the running game after one preseason game is a bit much, IMO.

I wouldn't worry about it yet. If that were the case after the Buffalo game, THEN I'd be worried.

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 12:15 PM
We didn't have a running game last year until the last game of the season against the Clowns.

Why start worrying now? :chuckle:

truesteelerfan
08-16-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm not worried about the stats from preseason games- but I am worried about our running game. Our RB and our OL need to step it up this year....Yes, we won a title last year, but just imagine how good we could have been if we could have run the ball consistently.

7SteelGal43
08-16-2009, 12:40 PM
No.

steeltheone
08-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Sure we should....We did not have one at all last year. We rode Ben to a ring.

hindes204
08-16-2009, 01:24 PM
I'm not worried about the stats from preseason games- but I am worried about our running game. Our RB and our OL need to step it up this year....Yes, we won a title last year, but just imagine how good we could have been if we could have run the ball consistently.




wow....some people just cant be pleased

the running game will be fine

GodofGridiron
08-16-2009, 01:40 PM
Of course im worried. Why not worry ? If you cant run it effectively you become one dimensional. And this allows the defense to pin their ears back and come at Ben. How much longer do you think he can endure a season of 40+ sacks before he breaks down physically ? How many more concussions will he last ?

Yeah........damn straight we should worry.

Indo
08-16-2009, 01:42 PM
no .

devilsdancefloor
08-16-2009, 01:47 PM
wow....some people just cant be pleased

the running game will be fine

:drink: :iagree:

SteelCityMom
08-16-2009, 01:58 PM
I'm not worried just yet. I think the coaches know the running game needed a facelift this year, and will take care of it (hopefully with a competent FB).

My only concern about the running game really is Parker. I love him, but I'm concerned about injuries. We'll see though.

mmalone
08-16-2009, 02:11 PM
Of course im worried. Why not worry ? If you cant run it effectively you become one dimensional. And this allows the defense to pin their ears back and come at Ben. How much longer do you think he can endure a season of 40+ sacks before he breaks down physically ? How many more concussions will he last ?

Yeah........damn straight we should worry.

worry... #23 offense.... ben on his back... defenses are always bull rushing our OL


Problem 50% play calling
30% OL
20% RB

We had Moore all year and used him mostly when parker was hurt., when parker was playing moore was watching, and he has way too many tools to be sitting on the sidelines. especially to counter the bull rushes with quick screens over the middle or off to the side or of the blitzer. moore can catch...

SteelTalons
08-16-2009, 02:19 PM
worry... #23 offense.... ben on his back... defenses are always bull rushing our OL


Problem 50% play calling
30% OL
20% RB

We had Moore all year and used him mostly when parker was hurt., when parker was playing moore was watching, and he has way too many tools to be sitting on the sidelines. especially to counter the bull rushes with quick screens over the middle or off to the side or of the blitzer. moore can catch...

Say what you want about the play calling. The meat and potatoes of this problem is the OL. Id give it a nice 60% of the problem. If not 80! Im not gonna harp on the play calling when the OL isn't exactly the most talented cast Ive ever seen. So your kind of limited as to what you can do when they can't do anything themselves.

Your definitely not gonna run worth a damn. So you're relying mostly on Ben's ability to scramble and the wideouts to improvise and get open ASAP. Now theres some issues with the playcalling and RB's. But overall the lack of a sound OL seems to be the biggest reason for our offensive woes...

LambertLunatic
08-16-2009, 02:36 PM
Concerned based on 1 preseason game? no.

Concerned based on last year? yes.

HometownGal
08-16-2009, 02:54 PM
Nope - not concerned as long as Parker and Mendy can stay healthy for the entire season and the OL gets it together and can open some holes.

mmalone
08-16-2009, 02:57 PM
Concerned based on 1 preseason game? no.

Concerned based on last year? yes.

Last Year... for sure.

i just dont see the majority of our play calling keeping the defenses honest...
im sure we have the plays... you see them once here and there during some games.....

look at the first preseason game... the cards seen Madison missing coverage like everywhere. so they passed to his side on burned him like 7 times in a row.

in a game when we find weakness. we never exploit it over and over until they stop us..

if the d rushes and blitzes us like crazy, we dont counter it fast enough in my opinion....

thats just what i see.. so if the opposing defense is hardly back on their heels waiting for one second, then our OL will never have a chance to look real good.

they just blast right at us. in the preseason game i seen woodley, harrison and timmons over rush a couple plays.. what was the play? a Draw play... thats vanilla. we dont even try those to slow the defense up or make them think twice...

Steeldude
08-16-2009, 03:05 PM
i have been worried about the steelers' sorry rushing attack for years. if pre-season is any indication then expect 2 to 5 defenders in the backfield immediately after the snap. memories of the last few seasons.

Psyychoward86
08-16-2009, 03:24 PM
Problem 50% play calling
30% OL
20% RB



:rofl:

I dont think there's EVER been a team in the NFL in which half the problem with the rungame was the playcalling. Lol, take any one-dimensional running team for example. The opposing defense knows what they're going to do, and yet, many times they cant stop that run game. Play calling is the least of any offensive problem :chuckle:

GridironWarrior
08-16-2009, 03:31 PM
I'm downright scared. I don't want to see Ben getting hammered again this year.

Preacher
08-16-2009, 03:33 PM
Countdown to another Arians sucks thread in 5, 4, 3,... oh wait, its already here.

:chuckle:

mmalone
08-16-2009, 03:35 PM
:rofl:

I dont think there's EVER been a team in the NFL in which half the problem with the rungame was the playcalling. Lol, take any one-dimensional running team for example. The opposing defense knows what they're going to do, and yet, many times they cant stop that run game. Play calling is the least of any offensive problem :chuckle:

Wow... then i hope ben can scramble up another great SB win....

Because he is carrying the offensive team on his ability to extend the plays...

thats a scary scenario.... if play calling has nothing to do with the offenses problem...

why does ben change the plays as he sees the coverage unfold?? is that play calling? or play editing....

does it matter then if ben changes the play at all then?

if its a run play up the middle and it looks like the D know its coming, can ben change the play at the line of scrimmage??

these are things i dont know... but i always thought play calling was a big part of an offensive scheme...

Preacher
08-16-2009, 03:46 PM
Wow... then i hope ben can scramble up another great SB win....

Because he is carrying the offensive team on his ability to extend the plays...

thats a scary scenario.... if play calling has nothing to do with the offenses problem...

why does ben change the plays as he sees the coverage unfold?? is that play calling? or play editing....

does it matter then if ben changes the play at all then?

if its a run play up the middle and it looks like the D know its coming, can ben change the play at the line of scrimmage??

these are things i dont know... but i always thought play calling was a big part of an offensive scheme...

It sure is secondary to EXECUTION. The WORST playcalling executed very well will STILL produce.

the BEST playcalling with bad execution will produce NOTHING.

See the difference?

Now, this year's line, at least in that first game, was looking better. After watching it again, I have some somewhat high hopes for this line.. I think they can top at a B- grading. Not bad from being about a D- last year.

After that, we need new personnel to get further, particularly at LT and RG, which is why I keep hoping for Hartwig to slide to RG and Leg. to play at center, at least from what I saw last game. Hartwig, while by no means a great lineman, is an upgrade.

Willie and Mendy are healthy (training camp bumps and bruises and spasms... it happens). That speed will greatly help the team. A couple runs around the end will stop inside blitz just as fast as anything else.

Screen passes are the equivelent of the keystone cops for this line for some reason. So that is out.

that leaves play-action short passes in places vacated by blitzing LB's and rushes to the corner to make LB's thing about going east west as well as north south.

And btw... There is NO SCHEMING in a preseason game, especially the first. You MAY find some very small scheming in the second. and the third is where you will have some plays setting up others, but not much. Fourth is again very vanilla.

So for that, wait until the reg. season to judge.

HometownGal
08-16-2009, 03:48 PM
:rofl:

I dont think there's EVER been a team in the NFL in which half the problem with the rungame was the playcalling. Lol, take any one-dimensional running team for example. The opposing defense knows what they're going to do, and yet, many times they cant stop that run game. Play calling is the least of any offensive problem :chuckle:

Don't you know, Psyycho, that Bruce Arians suuuuuuucks and should be ridden out of the Burgh on a rail? :chuckle::wink02:

mmalone
08-16-2009, 04:05 PM
Don't you know, Psyycho, that Bruce Arians suuuuuuucks and should be ridden out of the Burgh on a rail? :chuckle::wink02:

Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..

Its like the FO doesnt really think the OL is that bad.. they didnt really focus on it..
we picked up the #4 center from atlanta?? a couple rookies who are 1-2 years out.

if its not the OL then the QB or the receivers?? tell me something..... not just tell me im wrong about BA. im waiting for someone here to guide me to the light of this Offenses problem... Why are we #23 on offense... this year we will be #12 for sure just because of the lighter schedule with softer D's... but thats not the way to move up the charts. because the playoffs will be here... ask tennessee they played the easy schedule last year and when the playoffs came they got theirs.

we have SB players.... so why are we #23 on offense..?? still asking.. thats all.

i dont think ben really likes getting sacked 50 times and hit another 100 every year...

why does brady stand in the pocket all day?? is it the old players around him. or is it that he relases the ball as he steps back. 1-2-3 its gone. there is not enough time to sack him. why... the playcalling or his speedy legs saving him???

or do the plays match the players abilities???

scsteeler
08-16-2009, 04:08 PM
I am not concerned at all. If Parker becomes injured then I am get worried but overall no. If the run game looks horrible into the 4th preseason game then maybe and I do mean maybe.

O Sensei
08-16-2009, 04:11 PM
Here ya go preacherman.....

ARIANS SUCKS! We'd be a better, more well rounded team with a better coordinator!

Truth hurts!

You bet your ass we should be worried about the LACK of a running game based upon last season....if our 100 mill man goes down....on the field not in a hotel room...
we'll be up shit creek without a batch of paddles to save us....defense will keep us in the hunt....along with our new toy....a legit punter....but they better find a way to keep those boys on the other side from pinnin' em back and breaking ben bad....dude looks a little softer than he has as it is...too many roethlisburgers????

:thumbsup:

HometownGal
08-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..

Its like the FO doesnt really think the OL is that bad.. they didnt really focus on it..
we picked up the #4 center from atlanta?? a couple rookies who are 1-2 years out.

if its not the OL then the QB or the receivers?? tell me something..... not just tell me im wrong about BA. im waiting for someone here to guide me to the light of this Offenses problem... Why are we #23 on offense... this year we will be #12 for sure just because of the lighter schedule with softer D's... but thats not the way to move up the charts. because the playoffs will be here... ask tennessee they played the easy schedule last year and when the playoffs came they got theirs.

we have SB players.... so why are we #23 on offense..?? still asking.. thats all.

i dont think ben really likes getting sacked 50 times and hit another 100 every year...

why does brady stand in the pocket all day?? is it the old players around him. or is it that he relases the ball as he steps back. 1-2-3 its gone. there is not enough time to sack him. why... the playcalling or his speedy legs saving him???

or do the plays match the players abilities???

I'm beginning to really think you are a clone of my ex-husband. Even if there is no justifiable reason to bitch and moan, you'll look for one. :banging:

Who gives a flying fandoozle where we are rated on offense??? :doh: Our O, including the OL and OC are just as much a part of winning that championship as our D, ST's, Coach T and every other party who had a hand in last year's success and when all is said and done - the Steelers finished at the top of the heap as Super Bowl champions. Here - I'll explain it to you in simple terms . . .

THE STEELERS WON SUPER BOWL XLIII AND ARE THE REINING CHAMPS.

There - is that easier for you to comprehend? :banging:

While there is always room for improvement, to nitpick and harp on an offense and OC who are proudly sporting brandy new Super Bowl rings is mind boggling.

mmalone
08-16-2009, 04:26 PM
I'm beginning to really think you are a clone of my ex-husband. Even if there is no justifiable reason to bitch and moan, you'll look for one. :banging:

Who gives a flying fandoozle where we are rated on offense??? :doh: Our O, including the OL and OC are just as much a part of winning that championship as our D, ST's, Coach T and every other party who had a hand in last year's success and when all is said and done - the Steelers finished at the top of the heap as Super Bowl champions. Here - I'll explain it to you in simple terms . . .

THE STEELERS WON SUPER BOWL XLIII AND ARE THE REINING CHAMPS.

There - is that easier for you to comprehend? :banging:

While there is always room for improvement, to nitpick and harp on an offense and OC who are proudly sporting brandy new Super Bowl rings is mind boggling.

Cool. i watched all six super bowls as they were played... we won them all in Steeler fashion...

If ben goes down with a head injury or gets broke up.. its 2006 all over again.
I want to watch ben play all year and standing while he is playing.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-16-2009, 04:29 PM
Concerned based on 1 preseason game? no.

Concerned based on last year? yes.

My thoughts exactly

fansince'76
08-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..

It's called a "salary cap." Mediocre OL talent is getting $50+ million/$20 million guaranteed contracts in FA nowadays, never mind FAs that are actually worth a damn.

Texasteel
08-16-2009, 05:12 PM
Not worried, just hope everyone stays healthy this year.

As far a Arians is concerned he is one of the guys that helped bring us a SB win last year. I think I'll give him another game or two.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-16-2009, 05:19 PM
Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..



1) We have a relatively young starting o-line...and the thought has been that they would improve on a personal level...and jell on a collectice level

2) We have even younger players with enough potential to give those ahead of them some time to do just that.

3) With all their flaws...they are still the O-line on the World Champion team...and I would rather have an average O-line on a team that can win the Super Bowl team....then a great O-line on a team that sat at home and watched the Super Bowl.

Preacher
08-16-2009, 05:21 PM
It's called a "salary cap." Mediocre OL talent is getting $50+ million/$20 million guaranteed contracts in FA nowadays, never mind FAs that are actually worth a damn.

You know, there is always that one guy that actually brings sound logic to an argument.

Shhhhhhh FS. You make too much sense. :wink02:

tony hipchest
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..

it sucks that we ignore the offense and all the great players available in free agency. :rolleyes:

in the past 2 years....

we signed a top 5 qb.

we signed a top 5 TE.

we gave free agency money to a veteran tackle who had started in the SB as a LT and RT.

we signed a LG who also has 2 rings.

we added a veteran center.

plus signed the best linebacker in the league, and retained the sevices of 2 of our captains (hines and farrior).

add to that the fact that we have a top 5 paid safety and will need to make santonio and woodley the same and you are worried about signing veteran FA offensive linemen.

we kicked marvell smith and k. simmons asses out the door. :hunch: theres your FA OL.

jordan gross is not the answer. just a 1 year setback and a foot in the door of salary cap hell.

X-Terminator
08-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Well if not Arians.. Then the OL? why didnt we pick up veteran FA's for our OL..

Its like the FO doesnt really think the OL is that bad.. they didnt really focus on it..
we picked up the #4 center from atlanta?? a couple rookies who are 1-2 years out.

if its not the OL then the QB or the receivers?? tell me something..... not just tell me im wrong about BA. im waiting for someone here to guide me to the light of this Offenses problem... Why are we #23 on offense... this year we will be #12 for sure just because of the lighter schedule with softer D's... but thats not the way to move up the charts. because the playoffs will be here... ask tennessee they played the easy schedule last year and when the playoffs came they got theirs.

we have SB players.... so why are we #23 on offense..?? still asking.. thats all.

i dont think ben really likes getting sacked 50 times and hit another 100 every year...

why does brady stand in the pocket all day?? is it the old players around him. or is it that he relases the ball as he steps back. 1-2-3 its gone. there is not enough time to sack him. why... the playcalling or his speedy legs saving him???

or do the plays match the players abilities???

Because no matter what you call, it comes down to E-X-E-C-U-T-I-O-N! I don't know how many times that has to be explained to you Arians bashers. The best OC in the world looks like garbage if the offense doesn't execute the plays. Plus, on top of that, the Steelers have a very porous OL who at times couldn't stop a pee-wee team. The latter, of course, is why they are STILL having problems running the ball. It's a little difficult to run the ball when there are 2-3 rushers in the backfield on every play. And don't give me that "predictable" excuse - the Vikings and Titans were among the best rushing teams in the league last year...EVERYBODY knew they were going to run the ball probably 2/3 of the time, and most of the time they still couldn't stop them. Why? Because they had the benefit of having good OL - much better than the Steelers had. If we're to run the ball better this year, it has to start up front. Period. And as for Marsha, someone obviously forgot to tell the Giants and Bernard Pollard that there isn't any time to sack him. :coffee:

"Arians sucks! *CLICK* Arians sucks! *CLICK* Arians sucks! *CLICK*" That's all it is with you! Do you have an opinion on anything else, or is this all we're going to freaking hear all season long?

HometownGal
08-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Cool. i watched all six super bowls as they were played... we won them all in Steeler fashion...



As did I.

If ben goes down with a head injury or gets broke up.. its 2006 all over again.


And so what if it is? I don't EXPECT the Steelers to win the Super Bowl every season, besides the fact that it is illogical and impossible.

I want to watch ben play all year and standing while he is playing.

And that is the OC's responsibility - how? :banging:

43Hitman
08-16-2009, 07:30 PM
it sucks that we ignore the offense and all the great players available in free agency. :rolleyes:

in the past 2 years....

we signed a top 5 qb.

we signed a top 5 TE.

we gave free agency money to a veteran tackle who had started in the SB as a LT and RT.

we signed a LG who also has 2 rings.

we added a veteran center.

plus signed the best linebacker in the league, and retained the sevices of 2 of our captains (hines and farrior).

add to that the fact that we have a top 5 paid safety and will need to make santonio and woodley the same and you are worried about signing veteran FA offensive linemen.

we kicked marvell smith and k. simmons asses out the door. :hunch: theres your FA OL.

jordan gross is not the answer. just a 1 year setback and a foot in the door of salary cap hell.


That pretty much sums it up right there. Well said hipchest. :drink:

Stlrs4Life
08-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Being concerned about the running game after one preseason game is a bit much, IMO.



Exactly, way too early.

Galax Steeler
08-17-2009, 04:53 AM
It may still be early but I don't think there is any reason to be worried with our running game. When we get all the wheels a turning we will be just fine. We haven't seen Willie run yet or Moore. I think we will be fine.

mmalone
08-17-2009, 11:28 AM
"Arians sucks! *CLICK* Arians sucks! *CLICK* Arians sucks! *CLICK*" That's all it is with you! Do you have an opinion on anything else, or is this all we're going to freaking hear all season long?

ok, i will leave arians alone now....

i will blame the execution of the plays by the players...

maybe if we install a good short yardage package this year we will have more options for good execution.

let see what happens there....

mmalone
08-17-2009, 11:52 AM
It's called a "salary cap." Mediocre OL talent is getting $50+ million/$20 million guaranteed contracts in FA nowadays, never mind FAs that are actually worth a damn.

im really not versed on salary cap... it is so spread out...

how do say... the pats buy talent all over and we cant?? they always seem to be filling holes.

is their cap bigger?

They seem to trade and buy players all the time.

Do we have a spending problem? Do they budget better?

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-17-2009, 12:00 PM
I am actually pretty excited about our run game. Mendenhall ran strong with good forward lean and fininshed well in the preseason game.

Parker and Moore are proven vets and we know what we get from them.

There seems to be some decent lead blocking available from McHugh, Summers or David Johnson.

The interior O line is bulked up with Essex at RG and the addition of big nasty maulers like Urbik and Ramon Foster. I am feeling like we took steps forward compared to last season when the only additions made were Hartwig and Tony Hills.

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 12:10 PM
I'm worried about the running game if Parker stays healthy. If that happens, no one else will ever see the field ... so we'll gain 150 yards a game against the Bengals, Browns, Lions and the AFC West. Then when we get 40 yards on 26 carries against everyone else, the half of us who still don't understand how this works can yell at the half who do, for being "haters."

The poor yardage numbers last week, I mostly chalk up to the fact that we seemed to be trying out all the newcomers at smash-and-bash for most of the game, so you're not going to get many long runs that way.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 12:17 PM
Nonsense.

Parker will split 1st and 2nd down duties with Mendy, and Mendy will split 3rd down duties with Moore (short yardage=Mendy, longer yardage = Moore). I don't think Redmon breaks into this rotation this year (provided he even makes the team) unless there is an injury.

The hate for Parker is misplaced...he was asked to do a lot last year, and some things just didn't play to his strength. Almost every team has a thunder/lightning option now, and he had to carry the full load. It's not fair to dump that into his lap...

ANDYMISIU
08-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Nonsense.

Parker will split 1st and 2nd down duties with Mendy, and Mendy will split 3rd down duties with Moore (short yardage=Mendy, longer yardage = Moore). I don't think Redmon breaks into this rotation this year (provided he even makes the team) unless there is an injury.

The hate for Parker is misplaced...he was asked to do a lot last year, and some things just didn't play to his strength. Almost every team has a thunder/lightning option now, and he had to carry the full load. It's not fair to dump that into his lap...

Redman is making a case for himself to make this team. The fact that Tomlin gave all seven carries to him in the goal line drill really says a lot to me. The fact that he was successful in scoring 5 TD's in 7 tries is going to say a lot to the coaches. I say Redman makes the team.

Parker, Mendenhall, Moore, Redman, and Summers will be the running backs for our team this year.

Unless Redman starts getting stuffed in short yardage situations, he'll make this team.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 12:29 PM
He MAY in fact make the team. I still don't think he cracks the starting line-up (and by starting line-up, i mean the scenario I outlined above) barring an injury.

Bottom line this Parker bashing is way off-base....

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 12:36 PM
Nonsense.

Parker will split 1st and 2nd down duties with Mendy, and Mendy will split 3rd down duties with Moore (short yardage=Mendy, longer yardage = Moore). I don't think Redmon breaks into this rotation this year (provided he even makes the team) unless there is an injury.

The hate for Parker is misplaced...he was asked to do a lot last year, and some things just didn't play to his strength. Almost every team has a thunder/lightning option now, and he had to carry the full load. It's not fair to dump that into his lap...

I hope they rotate the workload that way, and if they do, I'll probably not hate Parker so much. But I will believe it when I see it. Because all I've seen is that unless he physically cannot play, it's Parker splitting 1st and 2nd down duties with Parker, and Parker splitting 3rd down duties with Parker (short yardage=Parker, longer yardage=Parker), with Parker coming in as the goal-line back. Like I've said a bunch of times, he's a specialty back that we're using wrong.

Maybe I should blame the coaches for not having a better strategy; maybe I should blame the front office for not finding any other RBs that were worth a crap. But whoever's fault it is, it's maddeningly frustrating to watch the same thing happen over and over again every time we play the Ravens or anyone else with a decent defense.

ANDYMISIU
08-17-2009, 12:40 PM
He MAY in fact make the team. I still don't think he cracks the starting line-up (and by starting line-up, i mean the scenario I outlined above) barring an injury.

Bottom line this Parker bashing is way off-base....

Yes, you have it right. Parker & Mendenhall 1st & 2nd downs, Mendenhall & Moore 3rd downs, Redman and Summers handling goaline.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 12:52 PM
A) Parker HAD to be utilized the way he was last year. What else did we have? Mewelde Moore is not an every down back and couldn't take the beating. Gary Russell couldn't even crack the Bengals roster. Carey Davis? We didn't have a choice, due to Mendenhall's injury.
B) Despite the hate, Mendenhall will be able to fill some, if not all, the short yardage duties. Redmon may develop into a guy who's ultimately better at it, but I can't see it happening that fast. One preseason game and a practice is not an in-depth enough resume to make any reasonable assessment.
C) I would not call Parker a "specialty back". That's more suitable for Moore. He's just not ideal to run outside and also be asked to smash it up the middle for an overall 350 carries a year.

mmalone
08-17-2009, 01:04 PM
B) Despite the hate, Mendenhall will be able to fill some, if not all, the short yardage duties. Redmon may develop into a guy who's ultimately better at it, but I can't see it happening that fast. One preseason game and a practice is not an in-depth enough resume to make any reasonable assessment.
.

Your opinion is strange?? who hates Mendy on this board??

Someone said he wasnt ready yet.. I didnt see the hate line??

you plug stuff like this in your comments all the time..

Redman is with an A. I usually dont correct spelling but you always seem to act so smart i want to help you out. and you spell it wrong all the time.

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 01:11 PM
A) Parker HAD to be utilized the way he was last year. What else did we have? Mewelde Moore is not an every down back and couldn't take the beating. Gary Russell couldn't even crack the Bengals roster. Carey Davis? We didn't have a choice, due to Mendenhall's injury.

Is this one of those things where I'm supposed to ALWAYS trust the front office's wisdom over my own? Because it sounds like you're saying we've either been incredibly unlucky about bringing in new RBs, or our judgment has sucked.

In terms of blaming Parker unfairly, that's not a bad point, and it's been sticking in the back of my head for the past three years. If Davenport, Barlow, or any of the other guys we brought in hadn't turned out to suck, we probably wouldn't be having this argument. Hell, if Duce Staley had been able to take over for Bettis -- like in the original plan -- things would be better.

B) Despite the hate, Mendenhall will be able to fill some, if not all, the short yardage duties. Redmon may develop into a guy who's ultimately better at it, but I can't see it happening that fast. One preseason game and a practice is not an in-depth enough resume to make any reasonable assessment.

I sure hope so. I've still got high hopes for Mendenhall. You can't really label him a bust based on half a game and then a season-ending injury.

C) I would not call Parker a "specialty back". That's more suitable for Moore. He's just not ideal to run outside and also be asked to smash it up the middle for an overall 350 carries a year.

I don't know. I agree that Moore is mostly a specialty back, but with him and Parker, it was more like we had two specialty backs with overlapping skills. Neither one of them is very well-rounded. They're both great in certain areas, but their weaknesses absolutely kill us about 40% of the time, which does not work very well in the long term.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 01:19 PM
I'll address C. Parker carried the ball 331 times in 2006, averaged 4.1 yards a carry, 1494 total yards and 13 TD's. That's NOT a one-dimensional back.

But he's not ideal to run up the gut 20 times a game. It'd be nice to have a change of pace, and I think Mendenhall will bring that to the table. Some misconceptions are that Parker is too small. Adrian Peterson has all of 9 lbs on him. Same with Deangelo Williams. Thomas Jones has 3 lbs on him. Those backs were all in the top 10 rushing last year. A 210 Lb running back is NOT small.

Also, Mendenhall is NOT slow. He runs a 4.45 40 and anyone that thinks he can't accelerate in the open should watch him in the Rose Bowl versus USC.

(Edit) One other thing...I believe in his last year at Illinois, Mendy had 16 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 opportunities. He converted 14 of them. Food for thought...

Dino 6 Rings
08-17-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm not worried.

When we play very good rush Defenses, like the Vikings, Titans and Ravens, it will be hard to run. When we play Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, we will be able to run.

Competition matters too.

Steel Head
08-17-2009, 01:28 PM
I am concerned

I think our line sucks at run blocking

mmalone
08-17-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm not worried.

When we play very good rush Defenses, like the Vikings, Titans and Ravens, it will be hard to run. When we play Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, we will be able to run.

Competition matters too.

so when we play the tough defenses, would it be better to run up the gut with a redman/summers combo until you wear them down, then switch to a quicker package with mendy/parker and then really blow them off the corners and end arounds..

ANDYMISIU
08-17-2009, 01:35 PM
I agree that Mendenhall should be given opportunity to run short yardage plays. However, it is interesting that Redman was given all 7 tries at goaline. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but the coaching staff seems to be growing with confidence in him. I think this next preseason game will be telling.

For the record! I am a Mendenhall fan and hope he does well. As I do for all Steelers, there is no hate for anyone on this team. As long as they produce ;)

Preacher
08-17-2009, 01:39 PM
so when we play the tough defenses, would it be better to run up the gut with a redman/summers combo until you wear them down, then switch to a quicker package with mendy/parker and then really blow them off the corners and end arounds..

No. That is where I completely disagree with the Steelers mentality.

When you play a tough defense. You throw the ball. 4 yards, 6 yards, 8 yards. Make the LB's and DB's run, run run and wear them out. Then, you feed the ball to a speed back up the middle, and they move right past the LB's who are too tired to fill the gaps now. You give it to a speed back who can get to the corners and beat the LB's who are to tired to meet them there.

Pounding it up the middle, except as a change of pace, should really be reserved for the 4th quarter when there is a lead on the scoreboard, or when you are playing weaker teams that need to cheat and bring more people into the box to stop the run. Then put the ball deep on a 1 on 1 situation.

ANDYMISIU
08-17-2009, 01:46 PM
No. That is where I completely disagree with the Steelers mentality.

When you play a tough defense. You throw the ball. 4 yards, 6 yards, 8 yards. Make the LB's and DB's run, run run and wear them out. Then, you feed the ball to a speed back up the middle, and they move right past the LB's who are too tired to fill the gaps now. You give it to a speed back who can get to the corners and beat the LB's who are to tired to meet them there.

Pounding it up the middle, except as a change of pace, should really be reserved for the 4th quarter when there is a lead on the scoreboard, or when you are playing weaker teams that need to cheat and bring more people into the box to stop the run. Then put the ball deep on a 1 on 1 situation.

That's a good philosophy and it does have merit. But also part of the power running game is to wear on the D'line, so you can control the game in the fourth quarter. So, there is positives to both.

mmalone
08-17-2009, 01:54 PM
No. That is where I completely disagree with the Steelers mentality.

When you play a tough defense. You throw the ball. 4 yards, 6 yards, 8 yards. Make the LB's and DB's run, run run and wear them out. Then, you feed the ball to a speed back up the middle, and they move right past the LB's who are too tired to fill the gaps now. You give it to a speed back who can get to the corners and beat the LB's who are to tired to meet them there.

Pounding it up the middle, except as a change of pace, should really be reserved for the 4th quarter when there is a lead on the scoreboard, or when you are playing weaker teams that need to cheat and bring more people into the box to stop the run. Then put the ball deep on a 1 on 1 situation.

i agree with you here also, i like the 3-6 yard passes to accomplish this, but we tend not to do that.. as i see it with all the balls parker gets to run up the middle, we should at least use a summers/parker up the middle...?? we do these run plays all the time... im not sure they will change that... thats why i say maybe a mendy/summers on 3rd and shorts.... basically you are saying to copy a bit of the quick "brady/pats" pass plays and keep the ball moving and ben standing.. then when the D is tired of that run it on them harder in the 4th, own the clock and the field position at the end.

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 02:00 PM
I'll address C. Parker carried the ball 331 times in 2006, averaged 4.1 yards a carry, 1494 total yards and 13 TD's. That's NOT a one-dimensional back.

I have to disagree with that. Total season yardage alone does not describe how up-and-down his performance is. In 2006, he got 1,059 of his yards in big games against the Bengals, Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs, Saints and Panthers ... all teams that were, to put it politely, less than stellar defensively (or in the case of the Panthers, in a game that was a 30-point blowout). Against anyone decent, he got creamed. Six games of a 2.9 YPC or less, including a couple of real backbreakers against Baltimore.

If you look at the game logs, he's been that way his whole career: He cleans up against inferior defenses, but also has a lot more 1- and 2-YPC games than is normal for a starting RB. He's completely hit-or-miss, which is a blatant indicator of a one-dimensional player, or at least a guy with an obvious shortcoming that can be exploited.

But he's not ideal to run up the gut 20 times a game. It'd be nice to have a change of pace, and I think Mendenhall will bring that to the table. Some misconceptions are that Parker is too small. Adrian Peterson has all of 9 lbs on him. Same with Deangelo Williams. Thomas Jones has 3 lbs on him. Those backs were all in the top 10 rushing last year. A 210 Lb running back is NOT small.

Also, Mendenhall is NOT slow. He runs a 4.45 40 and anyone that thinks he can't accelerate in the open should watch him in the Rose Bowl versus USC.

(Edit) One other thing...I believe in his last year at Illinois, Mendy had 16 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 opportunities. He converted 14 of them. Food for thought...

I don't think Parker's problem is that he's small; it's that he isn't very difficult to bring down. There are guys bigger than him who have the same problem (e.g. Davenport, Carey Davis). And on the other hand, there are plenty of smallish guys who bounce off defenders, fight through tackles, fall forward, and generally do a good job of doing whatever it takes to keep moving forward; guys like Frank Gore or Warrick Dunn, or the ones you mentioned. When holes aren't opening for Parker, he doesn't do that; he panics and dances around in place, fooling no one, and then he ducks and falls sideways into the pile. We've all seen that happen hundreds of times, and right there is the difference between being consistent and being streaky. At this point, I don't think he'll learn to do things any differently.

I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on Mendenhall, and honestly, I don't know why 40 speed is such a big deal to some people. For a running back, 4.45 is no different from 4.25 or 4.65. Quickness is a lot different from flat-out speed, and yards at the line of scrimmage aren't made based on who's faster in a sprint.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 04:26 PM
I give up...this is a futile argument. When people make up their minds there simply is NO dissuading them.

I'll say ONE last thing about RB stats. The Steelers defense is where RB stats go to die, because NOBODY runs against the Steelers.

Let's take LT as an example...clear cut first ballot HOFer...but against the Steelers for his career? 71 rushes for 246 yards for a 3.46 average. Do we call him and average back because he didn't average 120 yards a game against the Steelers? Of course not, and of course RB's will usually pick up more yards against teams with porous running D's, and that only makes sense. In Parker's case in 2006 212 of his 337 carries came in those games that you mentioned above. 63% of his carries came in 50% of his games, games that were against suspect run defenses.

It's all relative.

Parker bashing is almost a board past time around here...that and Arians nut busting. It gets old and tired after awhile...

mmalone
08-17-2009, 04:33 PM
In Parker's case in 2006 212 of his 337 carries came in those games that you mentioned above. 63% of his carries came in 50% of his games, games that were against suspect run defenses.

This is a good point.. When you have the player like parker and match him up with a team that can't handle his speed and flash, you use him often and crush the opponent..

When you play a team that will crush parker, you change the game plan and attack with say a flurry of ward and holmes... leave parker on the bench and maybe bring in a moore or mendy... this makes sense... we should do this more....

its like a game plan to attack the opponents weakness... a flex offense...
:tt:

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 04:43 PM
Eh, at least Parker bashing gives the opportunity for legitimate debates, not just emotion-based shouting like the Arians Sucks arguments. Not too many angles you can take on that one, so it's just "Yes, Arians sucks!" "No, he doesn't!" and that's about the extent of what anyone can prove.

Problem with the Parker Sucks debate is that no matter what facts come up to prove that he sucks or that he doesn't, there's always another layer of facts the other side can use to explain it the other way around. Like, yeah, it makes sense that we'll run the ball more when it's working, or trying to protect a lead -- and yeah, it also makes sense that that would happen against bad teams.

Bottom line is that I just think Parker as the feature back does not give us a good matchup against a lot of the teams in this league because they've shown time and again that they can stop him whenever they choose to do so. LT might not have been stellar against our defense, but he wasn't universally awful either. When Parker gets shut down, MAN -- it's always an absolute stink bomb of a game. Yeah, even a great RB isn't going to have 100 yards every game, but he won't have many sub-50 ones either.

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 04:44 PM
This is a good point.. When you have the player like parker and match him up with a team that can't handle his speed and flash, you use him often and crush the opponent..

When you play a team that will crush parker, you change the game plan and attack with say a flurry of ward and holmes... leave parker on the bench and maybe bring in a moore or mendy... this makes sense... we should do this more....

its like a game plan to attack the opponents weakness... a flex offense...
:tt:

This. This what I've been talking about all along. We've just been too stubborn or something to ever do it.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 04:47 PM
Christ, I'm done here...

pancake
08-17-2009, 04:49 PM
Concerned based on 1 preseason game? no.

Concerned based on last year? yes.

My thoughts to a tee... We need to improve the running game, to help Ben and the Defense...

The Lakelander
08-17-2009, 05:25 PM
Parker bashing is almost a board past time around here...that and Arians nut busting. It gets old and tired after awhile...

That's for certain.

I am a Bruce Arians advocate in a big way. I think his offense is evolving into something dynamic, He just hasn't had the right pieces in place yet.

Here's an article I wrote on Arians .... enjoy! ... :

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/209930-in-support-of-bruce-arians


:tt03:

Dino 6 Rings
08-17-2009, 05:29 PM
Throw more screens to the RB too!

this is so much fun.

UltimateFootballNetwork
08-17-2009, 05:48 PM
A) Parker HAD to be utilized the way he was last year. What else did we have? Mewelde Moore is not an every down back and couldn't take the beating. Gary Russell couldn't even crack the Bengals roster. Carey Davis? We didn't have a choice, due to Mendenhall's injury.
B) Despite the hate, Mendenhall will be able to fill some, if not all, the short yardage duties. Redmon may develop into a guy who's ultimately better at it, but I can't see it happening that fast. One preseason game and a practice is not an in-depth enough resume to make any reasonable assessment.
C) I would not call Parker a "specialty back". That's more suitable for Moore. He's just not ideal to run outside and also be asked to smash it up the middle for an overall 350 carries a year. Huh??

That's not the case. I don't think anyone suggested that Moore should have been the "every down back" nor does his ability (or not) to split carries require that FWP become the "every down back".

As I recall, they were splitting carries pretty effectively until FWP complained that he wasn't getting enough carries (prompting Tomlin's "I walk by 5 Lombardis not 5 rushing titles" commment).

They could have continued that arrangement but chose not to, despite it's lack of success.

steelreserve
08-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Christ, I'm done here...

Well, if it makes things any better, that's the last thing I was going to say as well. There's really no way for anyone to win the Parker Sucks argument until it's settled for us by the team next offseason.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-17-2009, 06:07 PM
There's really no way for anyone to win the Parker Sucks argument until it's settled for us by the team next offseason.

I'm still waiting for the team to settle the "Carey Davis sucks" arguement like the "Sean Mahan Sucks" arguement was done. :chuckle:

I'll even beat Preacher to the punch on this one. :kick:

revefsreleets
08-18-2009, 09:53 AM
Oh, Holy mother of Jesus, UFN is in this now?

There isn't a single reasonable person on this planet not related to Mewelde Moore who think he's the kind of guy who could run the ball 250+ times a year in the NFL, but UFN does. Why? Because they went to the same college...yeah, THAT'S a compelling argument...

Anyway, I read the Arians piece, and it wasn't bad, but I don't think Arians is some kind of spread offense 5 wide proponent. He just runs a bit more open offense than the 3 yards and cloud of dust Woody Hayes offense some of us were accustomed to...

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 10:27 AM
Throw more screens to the RB too!

this is so much fun.

Our O-lineman suck too much and would screw up all screens

mmalone
08-18-2009, 10:51 AM
Our O-lineman suck too much and would screw up all screens

Honestly, the OL cant run block, they cant create a screen situation, ben gets hit 200+ times a season, but we won a super bowl. so there fine.

and were debating on Summers or Redman taking over carey davis as FB. over a whopping 35yards rush 27 yards pass production by davis the whole last year....

wow...

we might lose a SB over that decision...

Dino 6 Rings
08-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Apparently Davis is a Special teams leader and is on the coach's 'good side'. So he may actually make the cut.

steelreserve
08-18-2009, 12:36 PM
Honestly, the OL cant run block, they cant create a screen situation, ben gets hit 200+ times a season, but we won a super bowl. so there fine.

and were debating on Summers or Redman taking over carey davis as FB. over a whopping 35yards rush 27 yards pass production by davis the whole last year....

wow...

we might lose a SB over that decision...

Well, the 35 yards rushing and 27 yards receiving is kind of why people want to see something happen. That's what you call room for improvement. A really bad-ass fullback could get more like 200 and 300, which would totally help you win.

mmalone
08-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Apparently Davis is a Special teams leader and is on the coach's 'good side'. So he may actually make the cut.

i was looking over the tackles stats from last year... do they post tackles made by ST's... it looks like they do....

because Davis doesnt have a tackle..... Keewin Lewis had a tackle and caused a fumble his first few trys last week.??

does anyone have a list of the Punt team and the Kick off team.. who are these guys and which ones maybe exchanged this year??


everyone seems to be making the team on ST. Wallace, Lewis, Burnett, Summers, Redman, Madison, Fox, Davis, McHugh... ........ Someone must be leaving.

Dino 6 Rings
08-18-2009, 12:43 PM
I think McHugh stays because he is a TE on the Roster so he has value for the coaches.

Wallace is making the team because he's so freaking fast.

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 01:04 PM
everyone seems to be making the team on ST. Wallace, Lewis, Burnett, Summers, Redman, Madison, Fox, Davis, McHugh... ........ Someone must be leaving.

dont forget Woods. He is good on special teams and a good backup LB, i think he will make the team

I think Madison is gone. And hopefully Davis

Woods and Roy Lewis are 2 players not many people talk about but i think both make the team

Dino 6 Rings
08-18-2009, 01:06 PM
I tend to think Davis stays.

Preacher
08-18-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm still waiting for the team to settle the "Carey Davis sucks" arguement like the "Sean Mahan Sucks" arguement was done. :chuckle:

I'll even beat Preacher to the punch on this one. :kick:

:laughing:

mmalone
08-18-2009, 01:13 PM
dont forget Woods. He is good on special teams and a good backup LB, i think he will make the team

I think Madison is gone. And hopefully Davis

Woods and Roy Lewis are 2 players not many people talk about but i think both make the team



does the kick off team and punt team change weekly, or does it stay basically the same during the regular season?

if so, who are they do we have a list, can someone come up with a list?

The Lakelander
08-18-2009, 01:20 PM
Fox
Frazier
Bailey
Timmons???
Lewis
Carter
Davis
Burnett???
Ratliff
Summers
Redman????
McHugh

It's a start anyways ... not sure which big bodies they use???

Kirschke???
Hood???
Keisel???

mmalone
08-18-2009, 01:47 PM
Fox
Frazier
Bailey
Timmons???
Lewis
Carter
Davis
Burnett???
Ratliff
Summers
Redman????
McHugh

It's a start anyways ... not sure which big bodies they use???

Kirschke???
Hood???
Keisel???

its a start. but you have punt coverage and kickoff coverage..

then punt and kickoff returns.. this would include 4 different units??

there are no solid lists from last year?

steelreserve
08-18-2009, 02:01 PM
Is Arnold Harrison still around this year? I thought I remembered him being on ST quite a bit.

Either way, that looks like a pretty decent group of guys, and I bet one or both of the rookie DBs will be a good addition.

mmalone
08-18-2009, 02:12 PM
Is Arnold Harrison still around this year? I thought I remembered him being on ST quite a bit.

Either way, that looks like a pretty decent group of guys, and I bet one or both of the rookie DBs will be a good addition.

Arnold played thursday

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 02:29 PM
i dont think Bailey makes the team this year with guys like Arnold Harrison and Woods edging him out

Steel Head
08-23-2009, 10:58 AM
Our O-lineman suck too much and would screw up all screens

1st play of the game they tried a screen and it was a total disaster

what's that troll rev..... have to say now?

revefsreleets
08-24-2009, 09:54 AM
Troll?

You really are retarded, aren't you?

I was mocking YOU when I was discussing screens:
A) Because you don't understand how they work
B) Perhaps we don't run them because we don't have the correct personnel...I'm suggesting there's probably a valid reason why we don't run them, not just bitching about it.
C) Which would make MY argument valid. YOU were the one who said we should be running more screens, you dolt.

You ask for more of a play, I mock you because you're stupid and think you know better than the OC, the OC CALLS the play you were asking for, it doesn't work, and you want to call ME out for it?

I'm simply speechless. Please, learn the definition of a troll, and PLEASE read some books about football before you address me again!