PDA

View Full Version : Redman's survivor skills


mesaSteeler
08-16-2009, 11:19 AM
Redman's survivor skills
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/08/16/sports/steelers/doc4a87857f0f0d0736125692.txt
By Mike Bires
Times Sports Staff
Published: Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:20 AM EDT
After a steamy day at practice, Isaac Redman walked off the field lugging two sets of shoulder pads. One was his. The other belonged to Willie Parker.

Such is life as a training camp rookie.

“Gotta pay your dues,” he said, sweat dripping off his face.

Redman paid his dues again Saturday even though he scored the Pittsburgh Steelers’ only two touchdowns in Thursday’s 20-10 preseason win over the Arizona Cardinals.

Not that he’s complaining.

He’s delighted to be here. Not many products from Bowie State University get the chance to participate in an NFL camp. A small, predominantly African-American institution located in Maryland between Washington, D.C. and Annapolis, Bowie has never sent one its own into the NFL.

Despite long odds, Redman could be the first.

He’s had an excellent camp so far. An undrafted rookie, he’s certainly out-shined Frank “The Tank” Summers, a running back who was taken in the fifth round of this year’s draft.

Redman has continually gained notoriety since camp started just over two weeks ago.

One day early in camp, he was the star of an intense, physical drill called “backs on ‘backers.” He was outstanding as he blocked on-rushing linebackers.

“Way to go 33!” coach Mike Tomlin yelled repeatedly at the time.

Last week, in a highly anticipated goal-line drill, Redman impressed again with two touchdowns.

Then he scored two TDs in the first preseason game.

“It was the greatest feeling I’ve ever had,” he said of his 3- and 5-yard scores against Arizona.

Tomlin, though, isn’t quite ready to jump on Redman’s bandwagon ... at least publicly.

“It was relative,” Tomlin said. “Hopefully, we will get some more looks at him against some varsity guys.”

Redman’s two TDs against Arizona came in the fourth quarter against third- and fourth stringers. Today, though, he gets his chance against the varsity.

Tomlin told him that he’ll get a few carries with the first-team offense in this afternoon’s goal-line scrimmage. If Redman holds his own today, his chances of making the roster improve.

After all, the Steelers are a team known to find, develop and keep undrafted rookies. Two of their current running backs — Willie Parker and Carey Davis — made the team after they weren’t drafted.

The last Steeler to wear jersey No. 33, Gary Russell, was also an undrafted free agent. It was Russell who scored the Steelers’ first TD in their Super Bowl XLIII win.

Russell was cut during the off-season, but some fans think he’s still a Steeler.

As Redman walked off Heinz Field Thursday evening, several fans thought he was Russell.

“I couldn’t believe it,” Redman said. “I just scored two touchdowns, and I’m still getting called Gary Russell.”

Redman, a 215-pound state wrestling champ when he attended high school in New Jersey, won’t be confused with Russell if he keeps progressing. He’s making a name for himself.

It’s too early to say he’ll make the team. But just maybe, in a few weeks, he won’t have to carry Parker’s shoulder pads.

If he survives the final cut, he won’t carry anybody’s pads but his own.

Mike Bires can be reached online at mbires@timesonline.com

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 11:57 AM
The Steelers certainly have a precedent of finding productive undrafted players. (calling James Harrison "productive" is THE understatement of the year!)

I'm rooting for the guy....for him and for us! We could use a new shining star in that position. The next month is going to be interesting to see who makes the cuts. I have no doubt the final roster will be the best we have seen in years, regardless of who makes the cuts.

"Tough competition" is Tomlin's middle name and one of the reasons the black and gold are the reigning world champs! :tt03:

X-Terminator
08-16-2009, 12:00 PM
He's not going to make it. They have too much depth in front of him. The practice squad is in his future, if he's not cut outright.

Preacher
08-16-2009, 12:06 PM
He's not going to make it. They have too much depth in front of him. The practice squad is in his future, if he's not cut outright.

With all our troubles in short yardage--

IF he plays well against the second teamers.... then

IF he plays well against the first teams AND

IF he finds another spot on the field where he can contribute AND

IF he can prove himself more valuable than Davis AND

IF Summers steps up and takes over Davis' role...

THEN I can see him making the cut and being on the final roster.

MasterOfPuppets
08-16-2009, 12:14 PM
kuuuuhn.....:tt03: ...oh wait, this is a new preseason flavor of the year....:popcorn:

hindes204
08-16-2009, 12:17 PM
There is alot of depth in front of him, but hes got an outside chance of making it...im rooting for the guy, im a big fan of the undrafted rookie stories...sometimes you strike gold with these guys

Preacher
08-16-2009, 12:18 PM
kuuuuhn.....:tt03: ...oh wait, this is a new preseason flavor of the year....:popcorn:

He's HOF bound!!

Fordy
08-16-2009, 12:41 PM
It sounds like he has done enough already to earn a roster spot to me. But I guess we shall see. Id be dissapointed if I see him amongst the cuts. At very least he should make practice squad.

Psyychoward86
08-16-2009, 01:54 PM
As long as he shows the coaches better than 4.76 40 yard dash speed, i wont be surprised if he makes the roster.

mmalone
08-16-2009, 02:21 PM
HERES THE PERFORMANCE WE LOSE...

With Summers we lose:::

Davis :: 2008 62 yards total 0TD 2 Fumbles.


With Redman we lose::

Russell:: 2008 77 yards rushing -2 passing 3TD

Steelers Nation can survive this change.

43Hitman
08-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I'm rooting for him, but find it highly unlikely he makes the final roster. If he does, I'll be happy cause it will mean he's earned it. I always want the best players possible to make the roster. I miss Kuhn.:crying02:

The Lakelander
08-16-2009, 07:07 PM
HERES THE PERFORMANCE WE LOSE...

With Summers we lose:::

Davis :: 2008 62 yards total 0TD 2 Fumbles.


With Redman we lose::

Russell:: 2008 77 yards rushing -2 passing 3TD

Steelers Nation can survive this change.

Yeah but as for Redman ... "He's not going to make it. They have too much depth in front of him. The practice squad is in his future, if he's not cut outright. "


Just ask X-Terminator :chuckle:

X-Terminator
08-16-2009, 07:20 PM
Yeah but as for Redman ... "He's not going to make it. They have too much depth in front of him. The practice squad is in his future, if he's not cut outright. "


Just ask X-Terminator :chuckle:

So what? It's my opinion. I'll believe it when I see him on the final roster. Until then, I don't think he's going to make it. I'm not one to get all tingly over someone who has a decent game against a bunch of jobbers or has a good camp. Lots of guys have good camps and don't make the team. He's going to have to do it in game action against better competition before I'd consider changing my mind. Until then, he's John Kuhn, v.2.

The Lakelander
08-16-2009, 08:02 PM
So what? It's my opinion.

Amen! We should all be entitled to our opinios bro!

I'll believe it when I see him on the final roster. Until then, I don't think he's going to make it.

That's fine bud! You're certainly entitled to be reserved in your thoughts on this roster.

I'm not one to get all tingly over someone who has a decent game against a bunch of jobbers or has a good camp. Lots of guys have good camps and don't make the team. He's going to have to do it in game action against better competition before I'd consider changing my mind. Until then, he's John Kuhn, v.2.

But you don't have to get disrespectful when someone else on these boards has a stronger opinion about a young player than you may have.

You have practically called me out on my strong opinion about Redman.

Disagree ... that's fine! .... don't disrespect.

As for Kuhn, this Redman kid is nothing like that straight ahead bulldog. This Redman kid has a much more evolved set of running skills.

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 08:11 PM
Steeler rookie Redman goes from unwanted to remarkable
Sunday, August 16, 2009
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Steelers have a new folk hero on their hands, an undrafted, mostly unwanted rookie who has become one of the remarkable stories of this training camp.

Isaac Redman, from Bowie State, got yet more chances to deliver on the goalline today and he came through as he has done since he first set foot on the Saint Vincent College campus with the Steelers.

Redman scored all three times against the Steelers first-team defense on the second live goalline drill of training camp today. And, in an unprecedented move, coach Mike Tomlin had him carry the ball on each of the seven live plays run in that drill. Redman scored on five, came close on a disputed call on another and was stopped one time up the middle by the second-team defense.

He first attracted attention when he scored on his only two chances in that drill a week ago. Then on Thursday, against the Arizona Cardinals, he scored the Steelers only two touchdowns, from three and five yards in a 20-10 victory.

Redman said the Steelers were the only team that really wanted to sign him after he went undrafted in April. If he makes it, he would become the first player from Bowie State to play in the NFL.

More details in tomorrow's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Ed Bouchette can be reached at ebouchette@post-gazette.com.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09228/991334-100.stm

I would be great to finally see the ball go over the goalline instead on just piling up on the one yard line. I, for one, am rooting for the kid. It's a win/win !

The Lakelander
08-16-2009, 08:15 PM
I would be great to finally see the ball go over the goalline instead on just piling up on the one yard line. I, for one, am rooting for the kid. It's a win/win !

Amen!

He got royally hazed by Ryan Clark on the last play of camp yesterday.

He had a day to stew in it!

He made a statement today!

Good for Redman!

GREAT for the Pittsburgh Steelers!

Kvnfaber
08-16-2009, 08:30 PM
I was at training camp today (first time ever) and was lucky enough to be sitting right at the end where they did Goal line. Let me tell you, Redman was VERY impressive. Also, watching Hines poke fun at the defense after each play was hilarious.

You could see how frustrated the first team defense was, with Big Snack throwing down his helmet in anger after their three plays.

We may really have something here in Redman, he is a powerful runner. I'd also like to point out the Frank Summers cleared the way for Redman with power, he really banged heads out there and made some room!

The Lakelander
08-16-2009, 08:33 PM
That's two straight days that the offense has owned the defense in practice. Yesterday it was the passing game that schooled our defensive guys.

Those defensive guys are getting pissed!

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 08:36 PM
I was at training camp today (first time ever) and was lucky enough to be sitting right at the end where they did Goal line. Let me tell you, Redman was VERY impressive. Also, watching Hines poke fun at the defense after each play was hilarious.

You could see how frustrated the first team defense was, with Big Snack throwing down his helmet in anger after their three plays.

We may really have something here in Redman, he is a powerful runner. I'd also like to point out the Frank Summers cleared the way for Redman with power, he really banged heads out there and made some room!

Music to my ears!

One...if the rookies are schooling this defense, it's only going piss them off and it's a very bad thing (depending on which team you're on!) to piss off the Steelers D! Nothing but good is going to come from this!

And two....if they can get past this defense......well, 'nuff said. :tt03:

Book'm Danno!

And I'd have loved to watch Hines harass the defense! :chuckle:

mulldog24
08-16-2009, 08:36 PM
If the kid can score against our 1st team D-fense in practice as well as against the Cards "jobbers" then sounds like the kid has a real chance!!! Someone in camp better not blink cause they might just lose their job!!! GO REDMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 08:40 PM
Someone in camp better not blink cause they might just lose their job!!! GO REDMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And clear the way to sign a few certain players while we're at it. $$$$$

SteelTalons
08-16-2009, 08:42 PM
I was at training camp today (first time ever) and was lucky enough to be sitting right at the end where they did Goal line. Let me tell you, Redman was VERY impressive. Also, watching Hines poke fun at the defense after each play was hilarious.

You could see how frustrated the first team defense was, with Big Snack throwing down his helmet in anger after their three plays.

We may really have something here in Redman, he is a powerful runner. I'd also like to point out the Frank Summers cleared the way for Redman with power, he really banged heads out there and made some room!

Frank and Redman are earning their keep!!! :applaudit:

43Hitman
08-16-2009, 08:47 PM
I was at training camp today (first time ever) and was lucky enough to be sitting right at the end where they did Goal line. Let me tell you, Redman was VERY impressive. Also, watching Hines poke fun at the defense after each play was hilarious.

You could see how frustrated the first team defense was, with Big Snack throwing down his helmet in anger after their three plays.

We may really have something here in Redman, he is a powerful runner. I'd also like to point out the Frank Summers cleared the way for Redman with power, he really banged heads out there and made some room!

Wow, this is really good news for the Steelers, Lakelander, and Steelersfever. If I lose the bet, I will lose it happily.

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 08:50 PM
Wow, this is really good news for the Steelers, Lakelander, and Steelersfever. If I lose the bet, I will lose it happily.

Time will tell.....I certainly hope these two guys do well enough to make it. It's a winning prospect all the way around. (except for the ones losing bets :chuckle:)

Kvnfaber
08-16-2009, 08:56 PM
Music to my ears!

One...if the rookies are schooling this defense, it's only going piss them off and it's a very bad thing (depending on which team you're on!) to piss off the Steelers D! Nothing but good is going to come from this!

And two....if they can get past this defense......well, 'nuff said. :tt03:

Book'm Danno!

And I'd have loved to watch Hines harass the defense! :chuckle:

I actually have 6 of the 7 goal line plays on video, as well as Hines doing a little harassing. Problem is, my laptop is currently out of comission and I can't upload them without it!

43Hitman
08-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Time will tell.....I certainly hope these two guys do well enough to make it. It's a winning prospect all the way around. (except for the ones losing bets :chuckle:)


:laughing: I don't mind, it keeps things exciting, and it's good fodder.

Hotrodder07
08-16-2009, 09:20 PM
Wow. If Redman is beating the first-team defense now, I'm impressed. At the start of camp, I really figured that he had no chance at making the final 53, but after everything I've been hearing, I'm rooting for him. The guy looked great in the first pre-season game, but it was against scrubs. Let's get him out there next week against first and second stringers. I want to see what this kid can do!

stillers4me
08-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Redman dominates at goal line
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Wexell
SteelCityInsider.com Aug 16, 2009

Sunday's practice was a wild one, from Jason Capizzi's KO punch to Isaac Redman's seven-carry, five-touchdown performance at the goal line.

UNITY TWP. – Isaac Redman got the call to run through the meat-grinder, also known as the first-team goal line defense.
He not only lived to tell about it, the undrafted rookie running back from Bowie State scored on all three carries.

How good is Isaac Redman?

“I don’t know. It’s a bad time to talk to me,” said Ryan Clark.

How good is Isaac Redman?

“Who’s Isaac Redman?” said James Harrison.

The back who just scored three touchdowns against the Pittsburgh Steelers’ first team defense.

“Don’t ask me no questions right now,” Harrison responded.

Chris Hoke, how good is Isaac Redman?

“He’s pretty good,” Hoke said. “But next time out we’ll probably shut him down all three times.”

Is that pride talking? Or is he a good back?

“No, he’s good, but there is some pride talking. We’ll get him. They didn’t run up the middle. They went after the edge a little bit. Up the middle, that’s where Big Casey is.”

Well, the 6-0, 230-pound Redman didn’t completely avoid the middle. Here’s the breakdown:

* His first carry was behind fullback David Johnson through right guard.

* His second run, as the single back, was blown up by Big Casey Hampton, so Redman slipped right and cut it up for the touchdown.

* On Redman’s third run, he lined up behind fullback Sean McHugh, but followed motioning wingback Frank Summers to the right side for the touchdown.

* Against the second team, Summers motioned to a wing-fullback spot but couldn’t spring Redman.

* Redman was stopped a second time, on his fifth carry, as a single back when Scott Paxson blew up the play. Redman juked a few times and nearly reached the goal line anyway.

* On the sixth carry, Redman -- with Summers motioning back to fullback – ran wide right for an easy score.

* The seventh carry was a replicate of the sixth carry.

Coach Mike Tomlin last week had wondered aloud about Redman’s conditioning, and that was the reason he scrapped his original plan Sunday of giving Redman only the first two goal-line carries.

“You saw Rashard (Mendenhall) go through it last year in the preseason,” Tomlin said. “When they get a number of carries, sometimes they lose a little ball security, some of the detail in their work. (This was done) just to evaluate him from that standpoint.”

The coach was asked why Mendenhall didn’t receive any carries.

“You can’t evaluate 33’s conditioning by using Rashard,” Tomlin said. “Rashard will get his opportunities.”

Did Redman open the coach’s eyes yet?

“Ah, you know, he’s still got a ways to go,” Tomlin said. “That’s a process. No question he represented himself pretty well today.”

For those counting, Redman scored two touchdowns against the backups in last week’s goal-line drill, and two touchdowns against the Cardinals backups Thursday in the preseason opener. With the five touchdowns Sunday, Redman just may receive a chance against the Washington first team in the next preseason game.

“It gives me a bit of a confidence boost,” Redman said. “The offensive line had some great blocks. The fullback had a great block and I basically walked in on a couple of them.”

CAPIZZI KO’s KIRSCHKE

Offensive line coach Larry Zierlein told his men before practice that he wanted to see nothing but short sets, meaning the hands had to come up quickly. Massive tackle Jason Capizzi responded with a punch to Travis Kirschke’s chest during a one-on-one drill that was so violent and sudden it buckled Kirschke’s knees as the veteran defensive lineman slumped to the ground. Kirschke didn’t practice the rest of the day with what Tomlin said was an ankle injury.

“You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t,” said Capizzi, who seemed unhappy about the result.

But wasn’t this a good thing for the young tackle?

“Oh, yeah. That was very good,” he said. “Everyone was like, ‘Holy cow, look what he can do.’”

It’s the third camp for the 6-9, 330-pounder from IUP, and he believes it’s by far his best.

“Everything’s going pretty good,” he said. “I feel more confident, playing right and left (tackle). Coach says ‘the more you can do,’ and I even spent a couple days at guard. I don’t know if I was the best guard, if I’m one of their last options, but the more you can do. They have me at tight end in goal line, too. I’m just trying to show them that I can go out there and push people around in the run game and protect the quarterback in the pass game.”

And knock out veteran defensive ends with one quick punch.

INJURY REPORT

Along with Kirschke, Troy Polamalu left practice after his calf tightened up.

Kraig Urbik didn’t come down to the field because of a scratched cornea. Tomlin explained that the rookie guard needed to keep the eye protected for 24 hours and expects him back soon.

Also sidelined were Brandon Williams, Mewelde Moore, Tyler Grisham and Darnell Stapleton with their lingering injuries. Stapleton will begin running in a few days and will be evaluated at the end of the work week.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story URL: http://pit.scout.com/2/888965.html

SteelTalons
08-16-2009, 09:45 PM
I actually have 6 of the 7 goal line plays on video, as well as Hines doing a little harassing. Problem is, my laptop is currently out of comission and I can't upload them without it!

Man... Get to work on that. I want to see this footage! :tt03: :drink:

X-Terminator
08-16-2009, 11:14 PM
Amen! We should all be entitled to our opinios bro!



That's fine bud! You're certainly entitled to be reserved in your thoughts on this roster.



But you don't have to get disrespectful when someone else on these boards has a stronger opinion about a young player than you may have.

You have practically called me out on my strong opinion about Redman.

Disagree ... that's fine! .... don't disrespect.

As for Kuhn, this Redman kid is nothing like that straight ahead bulldog. This Redman kid has a much more evolved set of running skills.

I called you out because basically you were talking down to anyone who didn't believe in your opinion that he was the next big phenom, was the next Fred Taylor or that he'd end up beating out Mendenhall for the starting job next season. It was a big time stretch THEN, and it's still a big time stretch. You get what you give, bro. It's that simple. If you've really been on message boards as long as you say you have, you would already know that.

Anyway, whatever. We'll see when the final roster comes out. If the kid makes it, great. If not, then he's just another guy who had a great camp, but came up short or was a victim of the numbers game (which will be the real reason why he does not make it). Shyt happens.

The Lakelander
08-16-2009, 11:48 PM
I called you out because basically you were talking down to anyone who didn't believe in your opinion that he was the next big phenom, was the next Fred Taylor or that he'd end up beating out Mendenhall for the starting job next season. It was a big time stretch THEN, and it's still a big time stretch. You get what you give, bro. It's that simple. If you've really been on message boards as long as you say you have, you would already know that.

Anyway, whatever. We'll see when the final roster comes out. If the kid makes it, great. If not, then he's just another guy who had a great camp, but came up short or was a victim of the numbers game (which will be the real reason why he does not make it). Shyt happens.

Please do take a moment and post the quotes you have of me specifically "talking down" to anyone who didn't believe in my opinion. I'd like to see where I did that? :noidea: ... because that is entirely uncharacteristic of me.

If I did that to anyone here, I am sorry. :hug:

I don't do Steelers chat boards to belittle or talk down to any of my fellow fans of the Black-n-Gold. There's already enough of that around here.

But I am strong in my opinions when I spot a trend!

Here's my take on Rashard Mendenhall ... agree or disagree!

Mendenhall has enough to be an NFL running back. He has enough to be a Pittsburgh Steelers RB too, to a degree. But he doesn't necessarily have the skills one expects from a first rounder, and he may never prove to be anything other than an adequate stop gap player for Pittsburgh until the next RB star is born.

Here's what Mendenhall has:

Speed to the corner
A burst
Strong pad level

All these attributes are important for a Steelers RB in the current system.

Here's what Mendenhall lacks:

Lateral explosion
Suddenness
A wide base at impact
Glide
Vision

In the current Steelers system, where first impact often occurs in the backfield, these attributes are tremendously important for our RB's.

Willie Parker lacks these attributes also. But Parker more than makes up for them with his burst and his speed. Parker is scary fast to daylight through a crack. And Parker breaks away from enough first contact, because of his heart and determination, that he is extremely productive more often than not.

But Parker gets absolutely stuffed in certain games too. In those games the Steelers abandon the run way too early more often than not.

Mendenhall's body of work at Illinois, after further review, was a slew of plays where he took the ball straight ahead. What you don't see in those clips is a player who has any lateral movement whatsoever. Mendenhall will run to and through a hole if that hole is straight ahead of him. He simply doesn't have the kind of lateral movement at the line of scrimmage where he will get to an opening if the one in front of him isn't there. And he has no lateral movement in the open field to avoid contact once he is through the line.

Mendenhall is best suited for the old system in Denver ... one cut and open turf ... which Mike Shanahan made stars out of unknowns like Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns.

Certain "instincts" simply aren't "coachable". They just are there. And scouts aren't 100% right all the time on players either.

I'm greatly concerned that Mendenhall will find the ire of Steelers fans, who expect a hell of a lot from 1st rounders. In fairness, he has plenty enough for us fans to ride on for the time being. So I'm pulling for the kid.

He's just a bigger, slower Willie Parker clone. That may or may not be good enough. Time will tell.

Redman seems to have those other attributes in abundance ... lateral explosion , suddenness, a wide base at impact, glide. He's a very gifted runner in a big RB's body. There is timed speed and then there's game speed. Redman seems to have the latter.

This thing is still unfolding ....

X-Terminator
08-17-2009, 05:33 AM
I think what we have here, Lakelander, is miscommunication. You obviously have a strong feeling about Redman, and that's fine. My feeling, and the feeling of pretty much everyone else here, is that you simply CANNOT make any kind of determination about Redman, particularly a positive one, based on one game (in which he gained just 32 yards against jobbers) and a few good showings in camp. None of that guarantees you a roster spot. We have all seen this fish before - an unheralded guy comes in, impresses in camp scrimmages and in a couple preseason games, then is ultimately cut. That's what I see in Redman. You know why we have a running gag about John Kuhn around here? Because he once was Issac Redman. And where did it get him? Yeah, he finally got a job with the Packers, but the only reason he did was because at the time he was picked up, they had nobody else due to injuries. If the Steelers didn't already have 4 RBs (Parker, Moore, Mendy, Davis) plus a possible FB in Summers and an H-back in McHugh on the team, he might have a better shot. On top of all that, the comparison to Fred Taylor is really what got people up in arms. You're talking about a guy who may end up going to the HOF. Comparing Redman to a guy like that is just insane.

As for your take on Mendenhall, I agree - so far. He clearly does have some shortcomings and some things he needs to work on. I don't dispute that. But we have people ready to throw him under the bus - you included, with your prediction that Redman would start over him next season (another absurd proclamation, IMO) - before he has gotten a fair body of work to judge him on. I say we wait a few more games, after he gets roughly 100+ carries this season and THEN make a decision one way or the other.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-17-2009, 08:05 AM
I'd also like to point out the Frank Summers cleared the way for Redman with power, he really banged heads out there and made some room!

I noticed that Summers was mentioned frequently as opening lanes for Redman...even went so far to say that he "blew Tyrone Carter out of the hole"

SteelTalons
08-17-2009, 08:52 AM
I noticed that Summers was mentioned frequently as opening lanes for Redman...even went so far to say that he "blew Tyrone Carter out of the hole"

I know right, while I like what I see from Redman. Im more interested in Frank at this point. I want to see him make some blocks for Parker and Mendy so we can see how that goes too.

Like Tomlin said though... You cant evaluate Redman by using Rashard. So I expect we will see some of Willie and Mendy soon with Tank leading the way. :tt02:

mmalone
08-17-2009, 09:04 AM
Out - Wallace / Burnett - 41 Logan, Stefan RB 5-7 185 6/2/81 1 South Dakota
In - 34 Mendenhall, Rashard RB 5-10 225 6/19/87 2 Illinois
Out - a Mendy Dup - PS - 28 Vincent, Justin RB 5-10 219 1/25/83 1 Louisiana State
in - 21 Moore, Mewelde RB 5-11 209 7/24/82 6 Tulane
FB in - 44 Summers, Frank RB 5-10 230 9/6/85 R UNLV
in - Vincent spot - 33 Redman, Isaac RB 6-0 230 11/10/84 R Bowie State
In - 39 Parker, Willie RB 5-10 209 11/11/80 6
Out - Summers 38 Davis, Carey FB 5-10 225 3/27/81 4

onefortheotherhand
08-17-2009, 12:15 PM
im so sick of hearing about redmans wide impact at base and lateral quickness...we get it lakelander

sorry for being mean

The Lakelander
08-17-2009, 02:07 PM
im so sick of hearing about redmans wide impact at base and lateral quickness...we get it lakelander

sorry for being mean

I'm so sick of hearing about John Kuhn on here! :blah:

You people that are stuck on John Kuhn need to move beyond your John Kuhn complexes that you suffer! :chuckle:

John Kuhn is not competing for a roster spot on this football team. He has zero significance for 2009 and beyond!

Now about Redman ... :popcorn: ... get your popcorn out people!

stlrtruck
08-17-2009, 02:48 PM
I'm so sick of hearing about John Kuhn on here! :blah:

You people that are stuck on John Kuhn need to move beyond your John Kuhn complexes that you suffer! :chuckle:

John Kuhn is not competing for a roster spot on this football team. He has zero significance for 2009 and beyond!

Now about Redman ... :popcorn: ... get your popcorn out people!

Dude. Relax. For the most part, any time John Kuhn is mentioned it's more out of a running joke, just like the 4:15 game thread last year. He was a fan favorite that didn't make it and we all have a little laugh about him.

I'm guessing that come September the same thing may be said about Redman.

mmalone
08-17-2009, 04:07 PM
John Kuhn is mentioned it's more out of a running joke

I'm guessing that come September the same thing may be said about Redman.

Hopefully not. We need some power backs....

the stats on russell and davis from last year are really sad and we played a lot of extra games...

fansince'76
08-17-2009, 04:11 PM
I'm so sick of hearing about John Kuhn on here! :blah:

You people that are stuck on John Kuhn need to move beyond your John Kuhn complexes that you suffer! :chuckle:

John Kuhn is not competing for a roster spot on this football team. He has zero significance for 2009 and beyond!

Kuhn's gonna track you down and beat you up for that! Dare to blaspheme against the Mighty Kuhn and you risk a serious beatdown! :chuckle:

The Lakelander
08-17-2009, 04:21 PM
Kuhn's gonna track you down and beat you up for that! Dare to blaspheme against the Mighty Kuhn and you risk a serious beatdown! :chuckle:

Our running jokes on my other fan site are about Mitch Berger. It seems none of the sandwich shops around the Burgh offered up their own unique version of The Berger quite the same as they created their own versions of the Roethlisberger. :chuckle:

Slanted August
08-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Please do take a moment and post the quotes you have of me specifically "talking down" to anyone who didn't believe in my opinion. I'd like to see where I did that? :noidea: ... because that is entirely uncharacteristic of me.

If I did that to anyone here, I am sorry. :hug:

I don't do Steelers chat boards to belittle or talk down to any of my fellow fans of the Black-n-Gold. There's already enough of that around here.

But I am strong in my opinions when I spot a trend!

Here's my take on Rashard Mendenhall ... agree or disagree!

Mendenhall has enough to be an NFL running back. He has enough to be a Pittsburgh Steelers RB too, to a degree. But he doesn't necessarily have the skills one expects from a first rounder, and he may never prove to be anything other than an adequate stop gap player for Pittsburgh until the next RB star is born.

Here's what Mendenhall has:

Speed to the corner
A burst
Strong pad level

All these attributes are important for a Steelers RB in the current system.

Here's what Mendenhall lacks:

Lateral explosion
Suddenness
A wide base at impact
Glide
Vision

In the current Steelers system, where first impact often occurs in the backfield, these attributes are tremendously important for our RB's.

Willie Parker lacks these attributes also. But Parker more than makes up for them with his burst and his speed. Parker is scary fast to daylight through a crack. And Parker breaks away from enough first contact, because of his heart and determination, that he is extremely productive more often than not.

But Parker gets absolutely stuffed in certain games too. In those games the Steelers abandon the run way too early more often than not.

Mendenhall's body of work at Illinois, after further review, was a slew of plays where he took the ball straight ahead. What you don't see in those clips is a player who has any lateral movement whatsoever. Mendenhall will run to and through a hole if that hole is straight ahead of him. He simply doesn't have the kind of lateral movement at the line of scrimmage where he will get to an opening if the one in front of him isn't there. And he has no lateral movement in the open field to avoid contact once he is through the line.

Mendenhall is best suited for the old system in Denver ... one cut and open turf ... which Mike Shanahan made stars out of unknowns like Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns.

Certain "instincts" simply aren't "coachable". They just are there. And scouts aren't 100% right all the time on players either.

I'm greatly concerned that Mendenhall will find the ire of Steelers fans, who expect a hell of a lot from 1st rounders. In fairness, he has plenty enough for us fans to ride on for the time being. So I'm pulling for the kid.

He's just a bigger, slower Willie Parker clone. That may or may not be good enough. Time will tell.

Redman seems to have those other attributes in abundance ... lateral explosion , suddenness, a wide base at impact, glide. He's a very gifted runner in a big RB's body. There is timed speed and then there's game speed. Redman seems to have the latter.

This thing is still unfolding ....

Great breakdown. Tough to argue the points you make.

SteelKid212
08-18-2009, 01:28 PM
I think what we have here, Lakelander, is miscommunication. You obviously have a strong feeling about Redman, and that's fine. My feeling, and the feeling of pretty much everyone else here, is that you simply CANNOT make any kind of determination about Redman, particularly a positive one, based on one game (in which he gained just 32 yards against jobbers) and a few good showings in camp. None of that guarantees you a roster spot. We have all seen this fish before - an unheralded guy comes in, impresses in camp scrimmages and in a couple preseason games, then is ultimately cut. That's what I see in Redman. You know why we have a running gag about John Kuhn around here? Because he once was Issac Redman. And where did it get him? Yeah, he finally got a job with the Packers, but the only reason he did was because at the time he was picked up, they had nobody else due to injuries. If the Steelers didn't already have 4 RBs (Parker, Moore, Mendy, Davis) plus a possible FB in Summers and an H-back in McHugh on the team, he might have a better shot. On top of all that, the comparison to Fred Taylor is really what got people up in arms. You're talking about a guy who may end up going to the HOF. Comparing Redman to a guy like that is just insane.

As for your take on Mendenhall, I agree - so far. He clearly does have some shortcomings and some things he needs to work on. I don't dispute that. But we have people ready to throw him under the bus - you included, with your prediction that Redman would start over him next season (another absurd proclamation, IMO) - before he has gotten a fair body of work to judge him on. I say we wait a few more games, after he gets roughly 100+ carries this season and THEN make a decision one way or the other.

get over yourselves people..... :coffee:

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 01:53 PM
If Redman keeps it up, they will find him a spot on the roster even if he is on the sidelines in street clothes for most games

Comparing Redman to Kuhn is stupid. Kuhn always sucked imo. I don't really get the running joke here about him, is it because he is a white rb? whatever i dont care

stlrtruck
08-18-2009, 03:14 PM
If Redman keeps it up, they will find him a spot on the roster even if he is on the sidelines in street clothes for most games

Comparing Redman to Kuhn is stupid. Kuhn always sucked imo. I don't really get the running joke here about him, is it because he is a white rb? whatever i dont care

It probably goes back to the pre-season game that he was here and in the 4th quarter he trucked over one of the other team's not-gonna make it players.

X-Terminator
08-18-2009, 06:08 PM
get over yourselves people..... :coffee:

:uhh:

:huh:

:noidea:

TheWarDen86
08-18-2009, 06:30 PM
He's not going to make it. They have too much depth in front of him. The practice squad is in his future, if he's not cut outright.

If Carey Davis can make it, Issac Redman can. I really liked what I saw, but there's still time to show if that's really who he is/what he brings or not. We shall see, but my money is on him to make the cut.

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 07:13 PM
X-Terminator is right, an undrafted runningback has absolutely zero chance to make the Steelers roster ever







:wink02:

mmalone
08-18-2009, 09:13 PM
X-Terminator is right, an undrafted runningback has absolutely zero chance to make the Steelers roster ever


and that goes for joe h. and rocky too. :wave:

LukesDad88
08-18-2009, 09:17 PM
and that goes for joe h. and rocky too. :wave:

You missed the obvious in Fast Willie.

fansince'76
08-18-2009, 09:20 PM
Comparing Redman to Kuhn is stupid. Kuhn always sucked imo. I don't really get the running joke here about him, is it because he is a white rb? whatever i dont care

No, he was just REALLY (over)hyped here during TC and preseason a couple of years ago. :chuckle:

43Hitman
08-18-2009, 09:27 PM
X-Terminator is right, an undrafted runningback has absolutely zero chance to make the Steelers roster ever







:wink02:

He is not saying that, he is saying as so am I that he/I need to see more against some first stringers at game speed before he/I anoint Redman the next Fred Taylor...:coffee:

Steel Head
08-18-2009, 09:56 PM
He is not saying that, he is saying as so am I that he/I need to see more against some first stringers at game speed before he/I anoint Redman the next Fred Taylor...:coffee:

he scored several TDs on the best defense in the world today, that's impressive IMO

onefortheotherhand
08-18-2009, 10:00 PM
you guys forget about his wide impact at base and how he glides and his lateral movement

The Lakelander
08-19-2009, 12:58 AM
He is not saying that, he is saying as so am I that he/I need to see more against some first stringers at game speed before he/I anoint Redman the next Fred Taylor...:coffee:

Again, I never "annointed" Redman the next Fred Taylor. This is how bent out of shape a few of you people took this thing.

I said his running style is very similar to Fred Taylor's .... for a big RB, lateral accelaration, suddenness, a wide base at contact, and a glide off the tackler. He runs side to side very effectively!

Those traits are extremely unique to very few exceptional NFL RB's. They are extremely rare for big RB's.

Taylor had exactly those traits in his heyday.

Most Steelers RB's over the years never had those traits whatsoever. It's been straight, strong, quick to the hole, and pad level for our RB's. Pollard, EJ, Hoge, Worley, Bam, Bettis ... they all ran it straight ahead and lowered the boom. It was the Dick Hoak way! Hit the hole damnit! You pause and you're dead meat.

The huge gaping holes that slower RB's like Bettis, Hoge, Pollard and EJ were hitting to our delight aren't there in this new Steelers offense.

And Dick Hoak retired a few years ago.

I think the Steelers are still learning what is going to work best in this offense. It is a body of work in motion.

Since Larry Zierlein has completely re-tooled our O-Line into a zone blocking unit, the trademark straight ahead style isn't as effective a running style for this offense. Parker's average yards per carry has dropped each year now for 4 years. He complained publically last year about the lack of a lead FB in the hole and how it was having a negative effect on him.

Parker has had to adapt mid-career into a new system.

Parker is most effective off the edge right now because off the edge is the only place left where his straight ahead style is finding space. The O-linemen aren't pulling as much and the FB is used sparingly now.

The zone blocking technique was a necessary evil for the Steelers to accomodate the spread passing attack that Arians and Fichtner have put in place. It is an ever evolving work in progress, and new pieces are being fit into it each year.

I feel that Barry Sanders would be absolutely thriving in the Steelers current zone blocking scheme. Holes are opening sideways more than straight ahead now. And a RB with lateral acceleration can hit those gaps where a straight ahead runner would never have a chance.

I think this is why Redman is having a bit of success. His running style seems to work in our zone blocking system.

But it's just a hunch.

None of us have seen enough of Redman in this Steelers offense yet to know his deal. I based my hunch on his tapes from college, where he demonstrated these running traits over and over again on carry after carry.

And his two TD's last week flashed exactly those traits.

Again. It's just a hunch. But if my hunch is right, Mendenhall may simply be running in a system that isn't fitting his style. That said, maybe we made a mistake taking him? It still needs to come out in the wash.

I may be dead wrong about this too ... I realize this. It's O.K. if I am ... I can live with myself. :wave:

The next few weeks are really important ... even critical ... to see the running game show improvement.

mmalone
08-19-2009, 07:42 AM
I think the Steelers are still learning what is going to work best in this offense. It is a body of work in motion.

Since Larry Zierlein has completely re-tooled our O-Line into a zone blocking unit, the trademark straight ahead style isn't as effective a running style for this offense. Parker's average yards per carry has dropped each year now for 4 years. He complained publically last year about the lack of a lead FB in the hole and how it was having a negative effect on him.

Parker has had to adapt mid-career into a new system..

i think its obvious the offensive coaches changed something that stopped us in our tracks. we have great runners and it seems the system stopped the runners... were not the coaches so we dont really know, but you would think they would.. since they are the brainiacs of this problem....

so either change the system to match the players or change the players to match the system..... someone has to change.. and since nothing changed as far as we know of..

they will probably add the FB more to create the bigger holes... will that be the change?

we have three big guys in camp now.

The Lakelander
08-19-2009, 07:55 AM
i think its obvious the offensive coaches changed something that stopped us in our tracks. we have great runners and it seems the system stopped the runners...

That's the reason so many fans hate Bruce Arians.

I've been saying for some time that Arians just needs more time and more pieces.

I'm really interested to see where it goes from here.

Because it's my hunch Mendenhall has the requisite goods, but I feel he is not playing in the right system for what he brings.

I hope he proves me wrong, or Redman proves me right. Either way I feel an effective RB will come out of this group soon enough, because Mendenhall and Redman offer different styles. One of them should rise up!

I'm also interested to learn if Kirby Wilson has had any past connections with Bowie State? Wilson is who replaced Dick Hoak as the RB's Coach. Bowie State is a predominantly African American college that has never been on any NFL team's radar.

revefsreleets
08-19-2009, 08:24 AM
Wait til Gonzo gets a load of your zone blocking assertions...

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2009, 09:16 AM
Wait til Gonzo gets a load of your zone blocking assertions...

Thanks Revs, but I am getting as tired of explaining "zone blocking" as you are of defending Arians. :doh:

When NFL analysts like Mike Mayock cite the Steelers as a team that is not a zone blocking team, or you see the Steelers fortifying the line with 330lb offensive guards.......its pretty apparent.

mmalone
08-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Again, I never "annointed" Redman the next Fred Taylor. This is how bent out of shape a few of you people took this thing.

I said his running style is very similar to Fred Taylor's .... for a big RB, lateral accelaration, suddenness, a wide base at contact, and a glide off the tackler. He runs side to side very effectively!

Those traits are extremely unique to very few exceptional NFL RB's. They are extremely rare for big RB's.

Taylor had exactly those traits in his heyday.

Most Steelers RB's over the years never had those traits whatsoever. It's been straight, strong, quick to the hole, and pad level for our RB's. Pollard, EJ, Hoge, Worley, Bam, Bettis ... they all ran it straight ahead and lowered the boom. It was the Dick Hoak way! Hit the hole damnit! You pause and you're dead meat.

The huge gaping holes that slower RB's like Bettis, Hoge, Pollard and EJ were hitting to our delight aren't there in this new Steelers offense.

And Dick Hoak retired a few years ago.

I think the Steelers are still learning what is going to work best in this offense. It is a body of work in motion.

Since Larry Zierlein has completely re-tooled our O-Line into a zone blocking unit, the trademark straight ahead style isn't as effective a running style for this offense. Parker's average yards per carry has dropped each year now for 4 years. He complained publically last year about the lack of a lead FB in the hole and how it was having a negative effect on him.

Parker has had to adapt mid-career into a new system.

Parker is most effective off the edge right now because off the edge is the only place left where his straight ahead style is finding space. The O-linemen aren't pulling as much and the FB is used sparingly now.

The zone blocking technique was a necessary evil for the Steelers to accomodate the spread passing attack that Arians and Fichtner have put in place. It is an ever evolving work in progress, and new pieces are being fit into it each year.

I feel that Barry Sanders would be absolutely thriving in the Steelers current zone blocking scheme. Holes are opening sideways more than straight ahead now. And a RB with lateral acceleration can hit those gaps where a straight ahead runner would never have a chance.

I think this is why Redman is having a bit of success. His running style seems to work in our zone blocking system.

But it's just a hunch.

None of us have seen enough of Redman in this Steelers offense yet to know his deal. I based my hunch on his tapes from college, where he demonstrated these running traits over and over again on carry after carry.

And his two TD's last week flashed exactly those traits.

Again. It's just a hunch. But if my hunch is right, Mendenhall may simply be running in a system that isn't fitting his style. That said, maybe we made a mistake taking him? It still needs to come out in the wash.

I may be dead wrong about this too ... I realize this. It's O.K. if I am ... I can live with myself. :wave:

The next few weeks are really important ... even critical ... to see the running game show improvement.

are you related to Mark Petro in the burgh....??

The Lakelander
08-19-2009, 10:29 AM
are you related to Mark Petro in the burgh....??

Who?

pancake
08-19-2009, 11:35 AM
I actually have 6 of the 7 goal line plays on video, as well as Hines doing a little harassing. Problem is, my laptop is currently out of comission and I can't upload them without it!

I hope you get this fixed real soon. When you do, you should make a new thread so everyone will check it out. I look forward to seeing what you caught on tape... :hatsoff:

revefsreleets
08-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Did I just read that it was the coaches fault that we can't run? That they "changed something" to make us less effective running the ball?

My God, I have GOT to stop reading on this side of things...it's literally draining IQ points out of my brain...

pancake
08-19-2009, 11:46 AM
Did I just read that it was the coaches fault that we can't run? That they "changed something" to make us less effective running the ball?

My God, I have GOT to stop reading on this side of things...it's literally draining IQ points out of my brain...

:rofl:


I tell my friends when they something stupid, that my IQ just lowered listening to you... :toofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2009, 12:22 PM
Did I just read that it was the coaches fault that we can't run? That they "changed something" to make us less effective running the ball?

...

Yeah, apparantly many think its some change in offensive scheme.

Personally I thought its mainly that the Steelers O line went from a bunch of 1st round (Faneca, Hartings, Simmons) and 2nd round picks(Marvel Smith)...to a group consisting of late round talent(Kemo, Hartwig, Stapleton, Colon) and underperforming 3rd round picks(Starks, Essex). Nah..........that couldnt be it. :wink:

Preacher
08-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Yeah, apparantly many think its some change in offensive scheme.

Personally I thought its mainly that the Steelers O line went from a bunch of 1st round (Faneca, Hartings, Simmons) and 2nd round picks(Marvel Smith)...to a group consisting of late round talent(Kemo, Hartwig, Stapleton, Colon) and underperforming 3rd round picks(Starks, Essex). Nah..........that couldnt be it. :wink:

You're right. Its not. It's because Willie is the RB and Mahan was cut! :chuckle:

mmalone
08-19-2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah, apparantly many think its some change in offensive scheme.

Personally I thought its mainly that the Steelers O line went from a bunch of 1st round (Faneca, Hartings, Simmons) and 2nd round picks(Marvel Smith)...to a group consisting of late round talent(Kemo, Hartwig, Stapleton, Colon) and underperforming 3rd round picks(Starks, Essex). Nah..........that couldnt be it. :wink:

thats cool gonzo..

you blame the players and their draft status.

lakelander and i and a few others blame arians not matching his players to his schemes or his schemes to his players..

we all have an opinion... my opinion is as funny as yours i guess.

thats why were fans....

call me stupid..... or put me on slee stacks ingore list.......

it my opinion.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2009, 12:40 PM
thats cool gonzo..

you blame the players and their draft status.

lakelander and i and a few others blame arians not matching his players to his schemes or his schemes to his players..

we all have an opinion... my opinion is as funny as yours i guess.

thats why were fans....

call me stupid..... or put me on slee stacks ingore list.......

it my opinion.

Malone, I am OK with your opinion and its cool to have one. I am just naturally sarcastic and have no hate on for you.

For years I have been hoping the Steelers would start investing in the aging O line with more premium picks than Colon, Cameron Stevenson in the 5th or Tony Hills in the 4th round and IMO.....its gotten us to this point.

O coordinators have systems and they generally get players to fit their systems which take a couple seasons. Look at where Arians comes from Indy and Cleveland where he ran 1 back systems. FWP argueably doesnt pick holes as well as he follows a lead blocking FB. Rashard Mendenhall played in a 1 back offense in Illinois and fits what Arians wants to do.

Arians or most other OC's are not gonna adapt to their personel, they get the personel to fit their system. Just look at what Haley in KC or the kid in Denver is doing. Asking Arians to adapt to the players on the roster is not what is gonna happen in the NFL.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2009, 12:49 PM
You're right. Its not. It's because Willie is the RB and Mahan was cut! :chuckle:

OK preach.......you asked for it. .:buttkick:

Steel Head
08-19-2009, 01:38 PM
For years I have been hoping the Steelers would start investing in the aging O line with more premium picks than Colon, Cameron Stevenson in the 5th or Tony Hills in the 4th round and IMO.....its gotten us to this point.

Fundamentally I agree with you but when you look at the specific draft pick orders in the last several years, there weren't many quality O-linemen where the Steelers picked (one of the pitfalls of drafting late i guess).

2009 - i was going nuts hoping we would trade up for Oher. after the Ravens took him, and Bills surprisingly took Wood there was nobody worthy of a #1 pick. same in the 2nd rd. I think they really wanted Vazquez from TT in the 3rd but he was taken right before they picked and we settled on Urbik

2008 - When we took Mendenhall, there was a slew of offensive tackles that went before we picked. Nobody good there at our 2nd pick

2007 - was a very weak draft for O-line and you cant argue with our Timmons and Woodley picks

2006 - many (including me) wanted Mangold but we traded up and got Holmes....again hard to argue that since he just won SB MVP

2005 - we took Heath Miller but could have gotten Logan Mankins or Michael Roos i guess


It just seems like the chips just haven't fallen in place with us drafting O-line in high rounds recently. We just invested a lot of money in Starks and Kemoeatu, hopefully we can build around them.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2009, 01:59 PM
Fundamentally I agree with you but when you look at the specific draft pick orders in the last several years, there weren't many quality O-linemen where the Steelers picked (one of the pitfalls of drafting late i guess).

2009 - i was going nuts hoping we would trade up for Oher. after the Ravens took him, and Bills surprisingly took Wood there was nobody worthy of a #1 pick. same in the 2nd rd. I think they really wanted Vazquez from TT in the 3rd but he was taken right before they picked and we settled on Urbik

2008 - When we took Mendenhall, there was a slew of offensive tackles that went before we picked. Nobody good there at our 2nd pick

2007 - was a very weak draft for O-line and you cant argue with our Timmons and Woodley picks

2006 - many (including me) wanted Mangold but we traded up and got Holmes....again hard to argue that since he just won SB MVP

2005 - we took Heath Miller but could have gotten Logan Mankins or Michael Roos i guess


It just seems like the chips just haven't fallen in place with us drafting O-line in high rounds recently. We just invested a lot of money in Starks and Kemoeatu, hopefully we can build around them.

You are right to a degree, but there were some questionable picks taken with an aging O line like:

2005- reach for Trai Essex instead of Nick Kazur

2006- Willie Reid instead of Max Jean Giles

2007- did we really need 2 LB's? Could have got Ben Grubbs and Woodley, or Timmons and Ryan Kalil, or Tony Ugoh and Woodley

2008- and yes I agree with the Mendenhall pick in the 1st, but was screaming for Jeremy Zuttah in the 2nd, then Anthony Collins in the 3rd and Carl Nicks in the 4th.........but we got Tony Hills :banging:

I think ignoring the O line for so long is what has caused its downfall, but we won #6 Lombardi on the strength of defense and those picks. I just dont think its fair or correct to blame sacks and O line push on offensive scheme. I think talent makes coaches look good and good coaching makes average talent perform better. Our current O line coach needs to make his talent perform better.

The Lakelander
08-19-2009, 04:28 PM
Arians or most other OC's are not gonna adapt to their personel, they get the personel to fit their system. Just look at what Haley in KC or the kid in Denver is doing. Asking Arians to adapt to the players on the roster is not what is gonna happen in the NFL.


Wow. Someone gets it. :thumbsup:

:applaudit:

X-Terminator
08-19-2009, 06:31 PM
X-Terminator is right, an undrafted runningback has absolutely zero chance to make the Steelers roster ever







:wink02:

Of course, I never said that, but you keep on believing it.

What I DID say was that I need to see a bit more than a few good practices and limited action against future gas station attendants before I believe he's "da next big thing." I like the kid, I like that he's busting his ass to make the team as a long shot coming into camp, but there have been plenty of guys like that before who ended up fizzling out and not making it when they faced better competition in games. So I'm not going to overhype him the way some people have.

HometownGal
08-19-2009, 06:42 PM
Malone, I am OK with your opinion and its cool to have one. I am just naturally sarcastic and have no hate on for you.

For years I have been hoping the Steelers would start investing in the aging O line with more premium picks than Colon, Cameron Stevenson in the 5th or Tony Hills in the 4th round and IMO.....its gotten us to this point.

O coordinators have systems and they generally get players to fit their systems which take a couple seasons. Look at where Arians comes from Indy and Cleveland where he ran 1 back systems. FWP argueably doesnt pick holes as well as he follows a lead blocking FB. Rashard Mendenhall played in a 1 back offense in Illinois and fits what Arians wants to do.

Arians or most other OC's are not gonna adapt to their personel, they get the personel to fit their system. Just look at what Haley in KC or the kid in Denver is doing. Asking Arians to adapt to the players on the roster is not what is gonna happen in the NFL.

http://www.brandeis.edu/arts/office/images/applause.gif

mmalone
08-20-2009, 07:14 AM
in the first preseason game... summers and redman played the backfield at least 15 times together..

redman followed summers block 3 times twice for TD's and once for a three yard gain....

the other 12 times he ran around the opposite end or was never near the FB's blocking route... does this seem odd? any insight....?


the other thing i noticed was mendy, who broke his shoulder last year, seems to ... when he gets hit, turn his back on the incoming hit and ends up facing east or west and not north with his helmut. he curls up and his back is exposed.. he did this like 80% of the time during the game. watch when he gets hit.. anyone notice that??

revefsreleets
08-20-2009, 09:25 AM
I'm sorry, but there is a TON of evidence to the contrary regarding Arians ability to adapt to the personnel around him.

We've SEEN him add a two-back/lead back look. We've SEEN him emphasize a short passing attack when need be. We've SEEN him move away from the H-back offense. There is a ton of evidence that we will rely more on the run this year, ultimately either being a 50/50 balanced team or perhaps even slightly run heavy.

The empirical data is all right there for all to observe.

So, can we PLEASE move off this topic? First off, the Steelers would not have promoted him/retained him if they were unhappy with his system in the first place, and they certainly would have fired him if he was the ineffectual and inflexible ass that many seem to want to paint him as. The facts simply do NOT match up against the bias...