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hindes204
08-16-2009, 12:04 PM
Public Option Losing Steam? White House Open to Health Care Reform Without Government Plan




Momentum behind a new government-run health care plan appeared to slow considerably Sunday, as a lead Democratic negotiator called the option a "wasted effort" and President Obama's health secretary suggested the White House is ready to accept a health care reform package without it.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., one of six negotiators trying to hammer out a bipartisan compromise measure on the Senate Finance Committee, told "FOX News Sunday" that the so-called public option simply does not have the votes to pass.

"The fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the United States Senate for the public option. There never have been," he said. "So to continue to chase that rabbit I think is just a wasted effort."

Conrad and other negotiators on the finance committee are instead pushing a system of nonprofit insurance cooperatives, as an alternative to the public plan.

"Co-ops are very prevalent in our society," Conrad said. "They've been a very successful business model."

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius also told CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that a public option is "not the essential element" in reform legislation.

The White House indicated it could jettison the contentious public option and settle on insurance cooperatives as an acceptable alternative.

"I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices, we need some competition."

The statement comes after Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said last week that he's "open" to a bill with no public option.

The finance committee is the last of five committees to consider such legislation.

Conrad had previously cast doubt on the chances that a public option could ever pass the full Senate. But with opposition to Democrats' bill growing, other top officials are starting to leave wiggle room for legislation that does not include the option as Conrad and other negotiators push hard for a co-op system.

As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

The idea has met a mixed reaction among Republicans.

On Sunday, Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said a co-op system would be a step in the right direction.

"We ought to look at it. I think it's a far cry from the original proposals," he told "FOX News Sunday."

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday that the "bottom line" for the president is "choice and competition in the insurance market."

"The president has thus far sided with the notion that that can best be done through a public option," Gibbs said.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/16/public-option-wasted-effort-lead-democratic-negotiator-says/

Preacher
08-16-2009, 12:13 PM
So we move from a horrendous idea to what? The healthcare version of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

Oh that's right, this will be a not-for-profit govt. startup business. So not only will the worst entity for business be trying to start a business, but THEN, that business will have no reason to succeed but the good will of its people-- people who either 1. can't make it in the public sector or 2. are connected politically and thus, at the top level of this new startup.

Isn't that precious?

Godfather
08-16-2009, 01:28 PM
It's a start. What really needs to lose steam:

1) The insurance mandate.

2) The regressive, job-killing payroll tax.

3) The provision to allow redlining.

4) The ban on individual coverage.

5) The ban on higher premiums for risk factors within a person's control (ie smoking, the majority of obesity cases, drugs, alcohol, promiscuity)

7SteelGal43
08-16-2009, 02:01 PM
Public Option Losing Steam? White House Open to Health Care Reform Without Government Plan

Conrad and other negotiators on the finance committee are instead pushing a system of nonprofit insurance cooperatives, as an alternative to the public plan.

As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

"The president has thus far sided with the notion that that can best be done through a public option," Gibbs said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/16/public-option-wasted-effort-lead-democratic-negotiator-says/

That almost sounds like a back door approach to 'public option'. Kind of like, it's not "death panels", it's "end of life counseling". I told ya ya gotta look out for those libs,,,there sneaky bastages. :chuckle:

HometownGal
08-16-2009, 03:00 PM
No matter how you look at it . . . .

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cc90353ef0115715b4d08970c-pi

7SteelGal43
08-16-2009, 03:53 PM
PS: we can't let up just because they relented on "public option". We CAN"T let up until they scrap the whole damn bill ! THEN we can sit down and talk about sensible health care reform with LIMITED government interference.

Truth is, maybe we're missing a bigger underlying issue that noone is really focusing on. How many newscasts talking about "the healthcare emergency" are sponsored by law firms suing pharmecutical companies or filing class action malpractice suits?" I'm a little surprised that these law suits barely get a mention in all these talks of health care reform.

revefsreleets
08-17-2009, 07:48 AM
The one thing we CANNOT let happen is to maintain the status quo...the skyrocketing costs are KILLING small business.

You know, the media is downplaying this, but it's pretty much the death knell of Obamie's primary "legacy builder". Public healthcare was going to be his signature piece of legislation, and without it...I don't know. Looks like another one-and-doner who pretty much does nothing.

Still, we got over the hump of never electing a minority, so he'll always have that, i guess...

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 03:35 PM
Slip slidin' away...it'll peak at 66% disapproval...there's just too many people (I'm guesstimating about a third) who have simply lost their ability to think critically in the wake of this guys hype and cult of personality...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090821/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_poll

Poll: Americans losing confidence in Obama

WASHINGTON – A new poll says that Americans, concerned over the future of health care reform and anxious about the growing federal budget deficit, are losing faith in President Barack Obama.

The Washington Post-ABC News survey found that less that half of Americans — 49 percent — say they believe the president will make the right decisions for the country. That's down from 60 percent at the 100-day mark of the Obama presidency.

The poll published Friday says Obama's overall approval is 57 percent, 12 points lower than it was at its peak in April. Fifty-three percent disapprove of the way he's handling the budget deficit and his approval on health care continues to deteriorate.

The national survey was conducted Aug. 13-17 and has a sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

steelreserve
08-21-2009, 03:41 PM
2) The regressive, job-killing payroll tax.

That's one part that I don't think is going to make a difference. At the place where I work, 15% on top of the payroll gets spent on health insurance. Obamacare wants to charge an 8% tax if you didn't offer health care. It's like ... OK, why wouldn't we just drop the company health insurance and send everyone to the government plan if it would cut our costs in half?

Of course, that leaves the question of how good you can expect the government program to be if there's only half as much money to go around...

SteelTalons
08-21-2009, 04:19 PM
Have you seen the numbers for Republicans? Sure Obama's is slipping a bit but I think its more to do with his screwing around over this subject so independents and democrats are getting a little antsy thinking he might be caving and not gonna do anything.

However it looks like he tossed one more line to the Republicans... One without a public option... They bit the cheese and were still against it. So Howard Dean pretty much stated it had to have a public option afterwards.

This is more health insurance reform not than universal healthcare. They are just coming into the market to offer competition to lower prices and increase quality since largely its been unchecked. So prices are going up and quality is dropping. Of course there will have to be something done to address the ones who wont be able to afford coverage after this bill starts coming into effect...

Should it pass.

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 04:36 PM
Have you seen the numbers for Republicans? Sure Obama's is slipping a bit but I think its more to do with his screwing around over this subject so independents and democrats are getting a little antsy thinking he might be caving and not gonna do anything.

It's not Obamas handling of it that is "making independants and democrats antsy"....it's that they DO NOT want his plan....PERIOD.

However it looks like he tossed one more line to the Republicans... One without a public option... They bit the cheese and were still against it. So Howard Dean pretty much stated it had to have a public option afterwards.

Of course they're "still against it" becuase they've been against it from the start. It has nothing to do with how he's handling it. And by the way, we're smart enough to know that "co-op" is equal to "public option".He never expected this kind of oppositin to it. The more he redresses it but pushes it, the more his #s plummet.

This is more health insurance reform not than universal healthcare. They are just coming into the market to offer competition to lower prices and increase quality since largely its been unchecked. So prices are going up and quality is dropping. Of course there will have to be something done to address the ones who wont be able to afford coverage after this bill starts coming into effect...

He's changed his rhetoric to make it sound like it's about "insurance reform". It has always been about universal healthcare though.

Should it pass.


It won't



It won't

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 04:41 PM
That's one part that I don't think is going to make a difference. At the place where I work, 15% on top of the payroll gets spent on health insurance. Obamacare wants to charge an 8% tax if you didn't offer health care. It's like ... OK, why wouldn't we just drop the company health insurance and send everyone to the government plan if it would cut our costs in half?

That's pretty much what's going to happen.

Of course, that leaves the question of how good you can expect the government program to be if there's only half as much money to go around...


Um...not very good I'm guessin

HometownGal
08-21-2009, 04:47 PM
Have you seen the numbers for Republicans? Sure Obama's is slipping a bit but I think its more to do with his screwing around over this subject so independents and democrats are getting a little antsy thinking he might be caving and not gonna do anything.

However it looks like he tossed one more line to the Republicans... One without a public option... They bit the cheese and were still against it. So Howard Dean pretty much stated it had to have a public option afterwards.

This is more health insurance reform not than universal healthcare. They are just coming into the market to offer competition to lower prices and increase quality since largely its been unchecked. So prices are going up and quality is dropping. Of course there will have to be something done to address the ones who wont be able to afford coverage after this bill starts coming into effect...

Should it pass.

Bu, bu, bu. . . Republicans. :rolleyes: SOS, DT.

Not to be disrespectful at all, ST, but being an Obaaaaaama apologist doesn't change the fact that his approval rating (overall) is on the downslope and he is being shown for the epic failure he is (and we who didn't vote for him) knew he would be.

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Huh?

I already said 33% will cling to Obama no matter what...and I mean he could come out and say that we should all donate 50% of our income to ACORN and they'd still back him 100%. People just lose their MINDS over this character.

Anyway, I am beginning to wonder about the GOP "scorched Earth" policy towards anything dealing with healthcare. Being the party of "no" is not what we need to be right now. It's time to step up to the plate and swat these silly twits right in the face with some serious common sense fixes for this system that has a sound foundation but is rotting a little.

I thought it could wait until after mid-terms, but things are getting bad...we need a clear voice from the right to emerge soon with some simple common sense that appeals to the middle-right majority of this country.

Preacher
08-21-2009, 04:54 PM
What I found funny, is that they put Obama's approval rating at what? 57% based on a poll published today?

Try realclearpolitics. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

His approval rating is around 52 percent.

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Regardless, as the deficits build, more and more promises are broken, and less and less actually gets done, his numbers will continue to slide down towards his inevitable nadir of 33%.

SteelTalons
08-21-2009, 05:09 PM
Bu, bu, bu. . . Republicans. :rolleyes: SOS, DT.

Not to be disrespectful at all, ST, but being an Obaaaaaama apologist doesn't change the fact that his approval rating (overall) is on the downslope and he is being shown for the epic failure he is (and we who didn't vote for him) knew he would be.

My point was I wouldn't write him off as a one termer just yet. Granted he's down, he's not below 50% yet. Creeping that way... But still. As compared to many Republicans who are polling roughly around 15 to 20%. So its Obama's race to loose at this point.

So while people might not like Obama as well as they once did. They aren't yet on the boat to put the Republicans back in. But hell its early in the game, so I guess we'll have to wait till we get a little closer to 2012 to see which way it goes.

As far as getting a bill passed. It really depends... Its been made clear that no Republicans are gonna vote for this. And the way Rahm Emanuel was talking everyone is coming to that same conclusion. They are more looking at pressuring the loose Blue Dogs into the deal right now.

So whether or not it passes remains to be seen. It just depends on how hard Obama fights for it really. Still might not pass, but this is the best shot the Dem's are gonna get at ramming this thing through for possibly many years. So its more or less do or die now.

Sec. Treasurer AFL-CIO, Richard Trumka has stated. That anyone who goes against this bill wont get a dime from labor. All be it a lot of Blue Dogs get a large chunk from the Health sector. So the Blue Dogs are starting to feel more and more heat.

MACH1
08-21-2009, 05:19 PM
He's a one termer. Nothing good will ever come from his ideas of "change". Unless you want to be a socialist.

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 05:21 PM
Huh?

I already said 33% will cling to Obama no matter what...and I mean he could come out and say that we should all donate 50% of our income to ACORN and they'd still back him 100%. People just lose their MINDS over this character.

Anyway, I am beginning to wonder about the GOP "scorched Earth" policy towards anything dealing with healthcare. Being the party of "no" is not what we need to be right now. It's time to step up to the plate and swat these silly twits right in the face with some serious common sense fixes for this system that has a sound foundation but is rotting a little.

I thought it could wait until after mid-terms, but things are getting bad...we need a clear voice from the right to emerge soon with some simple common sense that appeals to the middle-right majority of this country.


We're not the party of no. We're the party of "no socialism, please". Look, you mentioned a "clear voice from the right", but what you may not hear it in the media is that there are plenty of Republicans talking about ways to reform health care, health insurance....ways that will not include a government takeover.

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 05:27 PM
Right now NOTHING gets passed in the Senate because Byrd and Kennedy are too sick to vote, and THEY are votes 59 and 60 to block a filibuster.

And that's a good thing. The bill as it stands now is a piece of shit. Why do you think they are trying to sneak it through? Why do you think the Unions support it? Why do you think the AARP's membership dropped by 60,000 members the SECOND they endorsed this lump of crap? Why do you think Obama is actively telling US citizens to sit down and shut up?

The AFL-CIO's days are over, and this is probably their death knell as they head into irrelevancy. I don't think they have enough pull to make anyone vote for a stupid bill that will costs trillions and fix nothing just because a few thousand remaining Union voters won't vote for them if they don't.

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 05:30 PM
We're not the party of no. We're the party of "no socialism, please". Look, you mentioned a "clear voice from the right", but what you may not hear it in the media is that there are plenty of Republicans talking about ways to reform health care, health insurance....ways that will not include a government takeover.

Please...that convener-belt cookie cutter nonsense doesn't work on me. There are alternatives, but the GOP IS engaging in a scorched Earth policy right now. THAT IS their alternative...

It's time for more...

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 05:31 PM
My point was I wouldn't write him off as a one termer just yet. Granted he's down, he's not below 50% yet. Creeping that way... But still. As compared to many Republicans who are polling roughly around 15 to 20%. So its Obama's race to loose at this point.

I'm pretty sure Obamas already sealed his fate as a "one and done'r

So while people might not like Obama as well as they once did. They aren't yet on the boat to put the Republicans back in. But hell its early in the game, so I guess we'll have to wait till we get a little closer to 2012 to see which way it goes.

actually, a lot of polls are showing a lot more trust being put back in Republicans.....at least compared to Dems.

As far as getting a bill passed. It really depends... Its been made clear that no Republicans are gonna vote for this. And the way Rahm Emanuel was talking everyone is coming to that same conclusion. They are more looking at pressuring the loose Blue Dogs into the deal right now.

Pelosi started brow beating the Blue Dogs before the August break.

So whether or not it passes remains to be seen. It just depends on how hard Obama fights for it really. Still might not pass, but this is the best shot the Dem's are gonna get at ramming this thing through for possibly many years. So its more or less do or die now.

I vote "die"

Sec. Treasurer AFL-CIO, Richard Trumka has stated. That anyone who goes against this bill wont get a dime from labor. All be it a lot of Blue Dogs get a large chunk from the Health sector. So the Blue Dogs are starting to feel more and more heat.

you almost sound glad the AFL-CIO may cause this legislation to be passed against the will of a majority of the American people.


REVOLUTION !!! is coming....2010, 2012

revefsreleets
08-21-2009, 05:41 PM
No, it's not.

We need, and should be DEMANDING more from our party. Yes, Obama is a twit and is ramming his proverbial Titanic into the iceberg, but that is not enough. We need a captain that changes course and steers us clear of the threat...

First thing they'll have to do is shut down the trial lawyers...good luck with that!

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 06:09 PM
Please...that convener-belt cookie cutter nonsense doesn't work on me. There are alternatives, but the GOP IS engaging in a scorched Earth policy right now. THAT IS their alternative...

It's time for more...


:shout: AS I SAID, REV....there are some good ideas being talked about by Conservatives/Republicans in congress, they're just not being talked about by the media enough. They are not getting exposure. Maybe we're lost in the magnitude of this colossal abomination known as Obama care. I do fault Republicans for not getting THEIR message out and PUSHING MORE for some good ideas they have, but I don't know, maybe they're focused on killing this government takeover Obamas shoving down our throats.

As I've stated before, we need to kill this thing first, THEN sit down and talk about GOOD changes we can make so health care doesn't suffer and more Americans can be covered.

What I've heard suggested by Republicans....in no particular order...
1. Tort reform. Stop some of the bullshit lawsuits.
2. Shorten the "patent" period on drugs, get generics on the market faster.(yes, I've heard Obama speak of this too...kudos.)
3. Some regulation for pricing on drugs, health insurance premiums. But not in a way that squelches competition which drives prices down. Keep it reasonable.
4. Contract periods on health insurance policies, say...20 year contract so the insurance company can't drop ya if you get ill say, 5 years in.
5. Being able to buy health insurance policies accross state lines. Shop for the best price/coverage.
6. Give doctors tax credit for volunteering their time to "free clinics" and the like.

I have heard Obama talk about "pooling small business and individuals so they can get group discounts".....um, that's already being done. I know 'cause that's how I got my policy years ago.

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 06:17 PM
No, it's not.

We need, and should be DEMANDING more from our party. Yes, Obama is a twit and is ramming his proverbial Titanic into the iceberg, but that is not enough. We need a captain that changes course and steers us clear of the threat...

First thing they'll have to do is shut down the trial lawyers...good luck with that!

Right now, the America people are steering us clear of the threat. AMEN.

So there's no mistake, I'm not putting my faith in the Republican party (as a whole). We definately have some house cleaning of our own to do. BIG TIME. And I still think there are some Blue Dogs who are gonna vote "no" on this bill...I appluad them.

What we need, is to clean house, get some good old fashioned TRUE conserative leadership who will listen to the people, not big business. I'm not against corporate America...I'm against corporate America having more pull in the Republican party than you or I do. Actually, I'm against big business or ANY special interest group having more pull than the people. That has got to change. We need new blood.

By the way rev, when I say "REVOLUTION !!! is coming, I mean by the America people taking their parties back from the extreme left liberals AND from big business. It's gonna happen. Just watch and see.

tony hipchest
08-21-2009, 06:46 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Bu, bu, bu. . . Republicans. :rolleyes: SOS, DT.



:rofl:

dont talk about republicans guys.

especially the silly notion that one will rise from the ashes in 2012 (which is far too little, to late) to swoop in and save the day.

you guys got sarah palin. thats about it. :cheer:

good luck. :thumbsup:

obama was being worked into the game back in 2004. like it or hate it, the GOP is too consumed with blaming the media (and everything else under the sun) to simply understand the strategies that go on to building up a candidate and being able to actually carry out a cohesive campaign.

as long as the likes of those morons limbaugh and beck are seen as the voices of your party, you guys are screwed.

while the left is swinging for the fences, you guys are "batting" for the "moon". :willy:

SteelTalons
08-21-2009, 06:52 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




:rofl:

dont talk about republicans guys.

especially the silly notion that one will rise from the ashes in 2012 (which is far too little, to late) to swoop in and save the day.

you guys got sarah palin. thats about it. :cheer:

good luck. :thumbsup:

obama was being worked into the game back in 2004. like it or hate it, the GOP is too consumed with blaming the media (and everything else under the sun) to simply understand the strategies that go on to building up a candidate and being able to actually carry out a cohesive campaign.

as long as the likes of those morons limbaugh and beck are seen as the voices of your party, you guys are screwed.

while the left is swinging for the fences, you guys are "batting" for the "moon". :willy:

Amen. :drink:

MACH1
08-21-2009, 06:54 PM
while the left is swinging from the obaama nad sack, you guys will make sure its a one term prez. :willy:


Fixed it for ya.


:chuckle:

fansince'76
08-21-2009, 07:10 PM
obama was being worked into the game back in 2004. like it or hate it, the GOP is too consumed with blaming the media (and everything else under the sun) to simply understand the strategies that go on to building up a candidate and being able to actually carry out a cohesive campaign.

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Obama's "campaign strategy" in a nutshell:

Endlessly repeating the mantras "HOPE!" and "CHANGE!" about 150 million times, give or take, while repeating approximately the same number of times to the huddled masses how Bush was evil incarnate (while saying literally nothing else). Of course, now that he's in, we're supposed to simply ignore the fact that he's been adopting the "Evil, Satanic, Idiot Chimpy McFlightsuit's failed policies" by the truckload since he's been elected. But of course, now they're wonderful policies, right?

:coffee:

HometownGal
08-21-2009, 07:42 PM
especially the silly notion that one will rise from the ashes in 2012 (which is far too little, to late) to swoop in and save the day.

you guys got sarah palin. thats about it. :cheer:

good luck. :thumbsup:



:rofl::toofunny::rofl::toofunny: Stop it hipcheese - you're killin' me! :rofl:

If Obaaaaaaaama is the best your party has, which, sadly, it appears he is, the GOP could put up Sponge Bob and he'd win in '12. Your own party is starting to turn on him one by one. Like you - they will never admit that putting this dunderhead on a pedestal and pimping him as their nominee was the biggest mistake they could have made. Hell - it might cost some of them their precious cushy House and Senate seats. :laughing::thumbsup::applaudit:

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 07:51 PM
: Hell - it will cost some of them their precious cushy House and Senate seats. :laughing::thumbsup::applaudit:

fixed it for ya :thmbup:

X-Terminator
08-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Right now, the America people are steering us clear of the threat. AMEN.

So there's no mistake, I'm not putting my faith in the Republican party (as a whole). We definately have some house cleaning of our own to do. BIG TIME. And I still think there are some Blue Dogs who are gonna vote "no" on this bill...I appluad them.

What we need, is to clean house, get some good old fashioned TRUE conserative leadership who will listen to the people, not big business. I'm not against corporate America...I'm against corporate America having more pull in the Republican party than you or I do. Actually, I'm against big business or ANY special interest group having more pull than the people. That has got to change. We need new blood.

By the way rev, when I say "REVOLUTION !!! is coming, I mean by the America people taking their parties back from the extreme left liberals AND from big business. It's gonna happen. Just watch and see.

I have to agree here.

What's really killing me right now is that this is a GOLDEN opportunity for the Republicans to get their true message out and try to sway voters over to their side, and IMO, they are fumbling the ball big time. It's not enough to simply be opposed to Obama's policies - they also need to point out in detail what their alternatives are. Instead, they are sitting on their hands and letting the media define who they are, and they can't let that happen. And, as you said, it also wouldn't hurt if they would stop being so beholden to corporate America and allowing guys like Limbaugh, Beck and, locally, Jim Quinn, to speak for them. Far-right conservatives, to me, are just as bad as far-left liberals. I'd like to have a reason to vote FOR a Republican in 2012, something other than "it's not Obama." My vote is right there for the taking, because there's no way in hell I'm voting for Obama. If they don't get it, it isn't going to anyone at all. It's as simple as that.

Godfather
08-21-2009, 10:39 PM
I have to agree here.

What's really killing me right now is that this is a GOLDEN opportunity for the Republicans to get their true message out and try to sway voters over to their side, and IMO, they are fumbling the ball big time. It's not enough to simply be opposed to Obama's policies - they also need to point out in detail what their alternatives are. Instead, they are sitting on their hands and letting the media define who they are, and they can't let that happen. And, as you said, it also wouldn't hurt if they would stop being so beholden to corporate America and allowing guys like Limbaugh, Beck and, locally, Jim Quinn, to speak for them. Far-right conservatives, to me, are just as bad as far-left liberals. I'd like to have a reason to vote FOR a Republican in 2012, something other than "it's not Obama." My vote is right there for the taking, because there's no way in hell I'm voting for Obama. If they don't get it, it isn't going to anyone at all. It's as simple as that.

The GOP stepping on its dick might turn out for the best--but only if they screw up so badly that they disappear into oblivion. Then a credible conservative party can replace them as the opposition to the D's.

7SteelGal43
08-21-2009, 11:50 PM
The GOP stepping on its dick might turn out for the best--but only if they screw up so badly that they disappear into oblivion. Then a credible conservative party can replace them as the opposition to the D's.

Well I won't go so far as to say I hope the GOP steps on it's dick OR goes into oblivion, but I did email a buddy recently about a possible new party coming out of all this. Not sure we could be a three party country, and I can't really see a whole new party on the horizon, however, I feel like there are about as many Democrats about ready to jump ship as their are Republicans. So I think what's most likely to happen is your really gonna see one of the partys go through a major overhaul and come out on the other side looking like something most Americans could get behind. For that to happen, we have to get rid of influence from big business AND special interest groups.

Heck, maybe BOTH parties will get some new blood and BOTH parties will start representing "we the people". Wow, am I the l'il optimist, or what ?

MACH1
08-22-2009, 01:29 AM
Well I won't go so far as to say I hope the GOP steps on it's dick OR goes into oblivion, but I did email a buddy recently about a possible new party coming out of all this. Not sure we could be a three party country, and I can't really see a whole new party on the horizon, however, I feel like there are about as many Democrats about ready to jump ship as their are Republicans. So I think what's most likely to happen is your really gonna see one of the partys go through a major overhaul and come out on the other side looking like something most Americans could get behind. For that to happen, we have to get rid of influence from big business AND special interest groups.

Heck, maybe BOTH parties will get some new blood and BOTH parties will start representing "we the people". Wow, am I the l'il optimist, or what ?


Its called the Socialist party.

revefsreleets
08-22-2009, 06:47 AM
ONE little factor that was left out of Obama's "Run since 2004".

When he forsook public money (read: lied about it), he was able to outspend McCain by as much as 8-1 in key battleground states.

Change? Not so much...just good ole fashioned election buying...