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View Full Version : Preacher's offensive first team breakdown play by play-vs. Skins.


Preacher
08-24-2009, 02:57 AM
1st Drive, 1st play.

Line up 2 wide left (top of screen) with a single back. 2 TE's on the right.

it is a screen pass to Willie. The TE's and Essex have thier guys sealed off nicely. hartwig lets his guy slip through a bit... but with enough for the play to develop. Either he sold the screen BEAUTIFULLY, or he struggled just a little bit... either way ti worked. Legursky steps in and chips Hartwigs guy giving him help, and then is already out to the left ready to take on the LB as a Lead block for Willie. Dang. I just can't help it, this Legurskey kid is just impressive.

And then...well, there is Starks. He just gets manhandled. THe RE works around him and gets a big mit up in the air... AND, Starks was holding as well. :doh:

Willie was going to be in the open, with the closest guy without a blocker 12 yards away and half way across the feild. The safety is over 15 yards upfield. Willie is standing on the left hash marks (center left of field) with a hole side to run to. BEAUTIFUL scripted play... Starks blew it up.

The rest of the right side of the line seemed to all release their guys on cue for the screen... great timing by colon and Essex. and the TE's.

Drive one, Play one (after penalty).

receiver split wide up top, ward down below on the inside of the nubmers. 2 back weakside offset with a TE on the left side of the line. The d line has four hands down and three lbs... they are shifting all to the top (strong side) and then start shifting back. there are 8 in the box at snap.

Interesting.. Essex is the first one off the snap.. quick reactions. He seems to be moving With the BALL.. dang.

Wow. How to explain this? It looked almost like a short pass to Willie. However, the Skins blitz six.

Ok. Starks gets used as a pylon again. No need to harp on it.
Legursk get pushed back about 3 yards, then steps in and gives a NICE shove. Thayt is the end of that rush... BTW, remember he is lining up acrossed from haynesworth. Hartwig. Sigh. Does a good job blocking. Then, he is 2 and a half yards downfield by the time the ball is thrown... technically, he should have been called for illegal man downfield. Essex seems to barehug his guy. He aint going anywhere. Nice job Essex. Colon comes off the ball and takes the LE. moving in. He then passes him off to hit the MLB on a stunt to the outside of the LE. He does a good job blocking both of them. However, there was no one there to pass off the DE too. The FB was sent on a passing route. Willie turned for the pass... so yeah, it was supposed to be a screen.. but it was blown up by the blitz. Just too many bodies around.

Drive one play 2

Trips left, in tight against the line. One man split out wide, low by the field numbers. Willie is in the backfield next to w Batch. 7 are in the box against them... four have their hands down and will come against the line.. 4 on 5 matchup. Charlie is in the shotgun.

Colon takes about 3 steps back before his guy engages him. Willie P. comes around and clips him, pushing him into Colon. Essex is on the other side with his guy. The D cross and both Willie and Essex switch off. The pocket has collapses somewhat, but there is still a black shirt between each skin and Batch... so there is plenty of protection, but no pocket.

Hartwig is the odd guy out, with no one to block. He keeps his head up, steps back in unison with the line. NICE... Starks pushes his guy (maybe a RE stunt to the inside) and Starks controls him coming over to Hartwig, who pops him. Together, they have complete control of the stunt. Nice too see.

Legursk is bullrushed by Haynesworth. 6 yards behind the LOS Leg. puts an end to it and begins to control haynesworth, looks like he is actually holding the arm and shoulderpad a bit.. nice work though. Haynesworth does NOT get a look at Batch. Leg is between them the entire time.

Batch decides to throw it to his outguy.. Willie P. It is high and willie has to go up to get it. Nice catch by Willie knowing a guy is barreling in on him.

Batch had 4.5 seconds to throw the ball, and if he moved back a few steps, he would have had even more time. This is a MASSIVE D line they are playing against... honestly, that was VERY good protection, either it was great coverage down field, or a bad decision by Batch.


Drive 1 play 3

Alright. trips left (TE part of it) Holmes split right. Batch in shotgun with Mendy (I think) to his side.

colon has his guy solid. He backs up about 3 steps and when he engages his guy, his guy goes no further trowards Batch. The LT stunts to the outside and Mendy gives him a NICE pop... WOOOOWWW... Nice job right side of hte line. ....

Ok. the LT stunts outside. Essex let him go. Colon released his guy to Essex who jams him up... LE is not going to get to Batch. Mendy comes in and pops stunting LT, which gives Colon the half second needed to reengage... he is going no where either. BEAUTIFULLY played and orchestrated. WOW.

Hartwig-- Can't say much. He hiked the ball, didn't have anyone come through to him.. so he backs up to give the right side help. Played it how it was probably drawn up.

Legursky is playing against a MONSTER. leg drives Haynesworth to the left, pushing him beyond Batch. If you can't stop them, then use their momentum agianst them. Nice job. I would rather seem him stop Haynesworth cold... but good luck. Hartwig came in and popped Hayneworth at the end for some extra help. Beatiful line play here. Starks is infront of his guy the entire time. There is a nice yard hole opened up for Batch to step through and run or throw. matter of fact, IMO, Ben would have been able to run through it ot the side and extend this play for at least another 4-5 seconds.

Batch had about 3.5 to 4 seconds to throw the ball, and had he stepped back or up through the hole, could have extended it even more. GOOD JOB O LINE (did I really say that??????).

This was the play that was thrown over the head of Heath and then the penalty was called on the late hit.

Drive 1 Play 4

I formation. TE to the right. Split out left bbeyond the numbers. 8 guys in the box and a ninth just outside it.

Well, that is what happens when you try to run against 9 in the box. O line Leg and a couple others got a decent push... but it was stalemated at the LOS. Kind of tough when you have 9 D engaging the play within a second and a half of the snap.

Ok. Starks is on the inside of his guy, but there is no hole the FB Davis has to come up and put a block on the LB coming through, but that clogs any lane.. to the left. Parker has to cut back right. He gets a hand around his ankle behind the LOS, another guy wrapping him up AT the LOS, and a third guy undercutting him half a yard BEYOND the LOS. Parker still moves it about 3 yards... honestly, that was very impressive for Parker for how many people got a hand or body on him at the LOS...

Preacher
08-24-2009, 03:16 AM
Drive 1 play 5

Penalty... I formation again. Let's try again

Drive 1 Play 5 part deux

Singleback. 3 receivers with Ward in the slot, and two others split wide on top and below. Batch under center. TE on the right side.

Play action fooled NO ONE.

Somthered at the LOS.

Only thing I can say here... Colon is a monster driving his guy YARDS off the LOS. Leg. had his guy on his knees and starting to bend over backwards. Unfortunately, with know where to go, parker was trying to run right by Haynsworth and was wrapped up by him and another player.

I don't know why Willie is running into the tackles, but it seems that if he tried bounce quite a few of these outside, he would break a lot more runs. It looks like he is being told to go inside... when he should be going outside on mANY of those plays.

Drive 1 play 6

Ok.. I gotta give Starks Credit when it comes do. let's back up though. Trips right (TE included in trips) guy split to the left. Batch in shotgun with Willie next to him. 7 in the box with 2 more very close. The RE stunts inside of the RT. Hartwig and Essex has picked up the LG. Leg. gets driven back by Haynesworth, but again stuffs him up. THe RE comes around on the Stunt and Legurs gives him a push as Legursk. reaches and then falls to the ground. However, Starks has stepped backa nd tracked him coming through the crowd. He meets him coming around legursky and at the last second hits the RE, allowing Batch to step up and throw the ball. VERY nice job by Starks on not giving up on that play.

Colon. Solid as a rock. BTW, there is 3 seconds before batch has to step out of the pocket to extend the play. That is probably the worst line play yet... AND it was a stunt.. AND it was picke dup pretty well.

BTW, the pass was the one where Santo grabs the ball as it bounces off the ground and runs with it. However, Santo shows he is ABSOLUTELY in the game mentally with that grab and run. If Plaxico had his mental alertness, Plax would have been unstoppable.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 04:12 AM
Drive 2 play 1

(Dang Logan... we gotta make room for him. Ok, on to the offense).

THERE WE GO!!!

receivers are to the left, in tight. Strong side right, offset weakside I formation. Ward goes in motion. 8 men in the box against them.

Ward stops and is now lined up as an upback. There are virtually 9 men in the box.

Ok, at first I thought Legursky felt about as used as a wingman on a date. However, it seems he came in and sealed off the DT along with Hartwig. Hines and Heath take care of the DE. That allowed the Colon and Essex to move into the second level and take on two LB's. Nice play, but there is a BUTTLOAD of bodies piled up, with Hayneworth, who came behind Legursky chasing from the backside. it seemed that this was almost designed, as Willie started out right and kept going that way. BTW, Starks Stones his guy. It seems that he just needs a first drive to warm up. It was the same way last week.

LOLOLOL. Ward gets kicked back about 5 yards.. bounced back like a big red rubber ball. However, Willie turns on the jets and gets round the corner for about a 7 yard gain. I have to wonder if the coaches were purposely running Willie inside for a while, just to see what was going to happen. Now they are giving him some freedom maybe? Who knows. but that was nicely done.

Drive 2 Play 2

Dang. They bring 7. Ok. Two receivers at the top, Hines at the bottom. Willie in the backfield alone. Batch under center. Mass blitz here.

Well, forget what I said about Starks. He is again used as a pylon. Just round right around the guy. Dang. That forces Batch to step up into a pocket that is being forced back. Haynesworth is driving legurskey back... and Batch has to step up passed him. Haynesworth reaches out with a hand touches Batch. not sure I can blame legursky for that... maybe 50 percent. He WAS driven back a decent way. however, he is ALSo playing possibly the BEST 4-3 DT in the NFL.

Hartwig on the other hand, was owning his guy... until a spin move left Hartwig's jock laying on the ground a la Starks last week. BEAUTIFUL MOVE.

Colon got pushed to the ground, but STill was able to stay between the guy and Batch. Good job. Essex did a great job blocking. Heath completely drove his guy beyond Batch. BTW, it was a Play action that just didn't pan out. A shame, because if he DID hand it off, Willie could have gone quite a ways with it.

OH MAN. THere was a GERAT hole... and Willie only had one man to beat. A SHAME it wasn't an actual hand off.

You know, I have to start wondering if there is a tell... because Nobody is bighting on anything. I gotta keep my eyes open for it.

DRIVE 2 Play 3

Blitzing 7 BEAUTIFUL pickup by the entire line and RB corp. :clap:

Ok. Starks is one on one with his guy and takes him beyond Batch. Leg. is pared up with Haynesworth and has him under contorl. essex and Hartwig are double teaming and have their guy about to be folded in half. Colon Stones his guy, and another blitzer runs right into them... He in effect stoned two guys!! I thnk it is Heath Miller as a HB along with whom? I think it is mendy. two split wide left and right with another in the slot right.

Heath puts a nice stop on his guy. The other RB.. Mendy I think, steps across and drives his guy COMPLETLY out of the play.

Batch has at leat 4 seconds to get the ball out. Could have stepped to his right a couple steps and extend the play a few more seconds.

Ladies and gentlemen, The offensive line of the 70's, or 90's could not have picked up that blitz any better. It was PERFECTLY executed.

Great job line.

Nice pass to Santo Holmes who went upstairs to get it just beyond the first down marker.

2nd Drive, Play 4

WOW. Batch coulda smoked a cigerette back there before he threw this ball.

Ok, Skins rushing four. Heath steps up and clips Starks guy, giving him help. Starks has control of the guy after that. Nice job. The middle three are just a freaking WALL. Beautiful. Colon is great too.

Batch is under center, and throws the ball away about at the three count, but could have waited at least another 2-4 seconds... heck, maybe even longer. Incomplete... 50 50 that could have been passing interference. Oh. That was Mike Wallace. Wow.

People. If we give our QB that kind of time... We are going to have plays go IN THE AIR for 50 or 60 yards...if Ben can throw that far. These guys are so fast and scary. Wallace had his guy beat and the CB interfered with him.

2nd Drive Play 5

Just know,,, quick throw to Ward.. throw is low. However, it is out from the QB within 2 seconds. 3 step drop and boom. These kind of playes will REALLY slow down LB's from blitzing, as they will have to stay back to jump routes if we utilzie it. However, line was still pretty good... no one looked beat when the ball left Batches hand. MATTER OF FACT... Stark's first punch on his guy sent his guy backwards with both hand flailing in the air. Nice job Starks.

/RANT You know, starks is KILLING ME. If he played every time like he did this play, and two other plays on this drive, he would have been worth MORE than this last contract payed him.

Yet, on some other plays, he looks VASTLY OVERPAID. CONSISTENCY PLEASE STARKS!!!! I too have heard that about him since he came out of college. Sigh. RANT off.

mmalone
08-24-2009, 04:44 AM
Drive 2 play 1

THERE WE GO!!!



(Dang Logan... we gotta make room for him. Ok, on to the offense).

--- He is very direct and stealthy when he runs. he almost keeps the tackler close enough to him to think he is going to tackle logan, then logan fades off the guy.
kinda like a greased pig move..

THERE WE GO!!!

You know, I have to start wondering if there is a tell... because Nobody is bighting on anything. I gotta keep my eyes open for it.

--- I have been wondering about this thru last year.... but i think it is just 8-9 d in the box and rushing so it just lloks like a tell....... it is really just being out numbered....

Just know,,, quick throw to Ward.. throw is low. However, it is out from the QB within 2 seconds. 3 step drop and boom. These kind of playes will REALLY slow down LB's from blitzing, as they will have to stay back to jump routes if we utilzie it.

--- 87 and 86 would do fine for these plays.. We need to do this way more often.... this is part of the Patriots / Colts main staple.... Colts dont even use a running back...

However, line was still pretty good... no one looked beat when the ball left Batches hand.

--- These plays will help our OL more than anything

Preacher
08-24-2009, 05:05 AM
Funny thing... Joe Theisman talking about it taking two to protect against Haynesworth, and Legursky is doing a GREAT job in this slo mo illustration of doing it himself. I do like the fact however, that there is NO redskins helmets around Batch.

2nd drive play 6

Wow. Boys and girls. We could be DANGEROUS if our line plays like they have in the last 2 or three plays.

Four wide. Halfback to the side of Batch. Almost four seconds before Batch throws the ball, and there is a VERY nice pocket around him. No one touches him. STarks does a GREAT job of picking up Haynesworth stunting to the outside. DANG YOU STARKS PLAY LIKE THIS THE ENTIRE GAME!!!!!!!! Leg. slides over to pick up Stark's guy and frees him up. SMooooooooooooooooth transition. Colon stones his guy again as he is trying to go outside. Essex gives about 2 or 3 yards and then puts on the breaks. Very good job by him. Hartwig back up looking for a place to help out, but doesn't find anywhere. Nothing on him, just everyone else was doing a great job. Ward makes a BEAUTIFUL catch going up top to grab it.

2nd drive play 7

Well. Steelers line up 5 wide. And guess what? Line has NO PROBLEM blocking. Starks has his guy locked up. The middle three are all on Haynesworth.. ROTFL... he is going no where. The defensive LT drops into coverage, and colon has his guy blocked perfectly. Heath runs a flag pattern into the flat and takes the ball up to a first down. Gotta admit. Gorgeous play all the way around.

:rofl: Hey, Heath.. How did you like that Farmer's tan you got over in Latrobe? You look a little red there buddy!! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


2nd Drive play 8
TE is to the right. I formation offset strong side. receivers spread left and right (2 of them). Ward moves in tight behind the TE. Because they are on the 3 yard line, there are 9 in or very close to the box. They begin by blitzing 5, but drop one guy in coverage. Starks has his guy kicked out to the left. No where NEAR Batch. The rest have their guys all piled together in one big jumble. None of them are going to get through. Batch seems to rush the throw instead of letting something develop. Matter of fact. it would have been interesting to throw it to willie in the opppositi flat and see if he could have beat his man to the endzone. Oh well. Ball was incomplete to the TE in the strong side flat... not a good throw.

2nd Drive, play 9

Ok. Willie scores on a run to the outside right. First. Colon pulls out and lays out a NICE block. People. I urge you all. Give Davis a second look. No, he doesn't blow guys up, but Willie followed him in, and Davis sealed off the corner and Willie just followed him into the endzone. NO WAY........... Sweed comes in and take on the RE.. Sweed looks about HALF the guys size... but he does a GREAT JOB blocking him. Sweed...make SURE Ward Sees this in your film study.

Everyone does a pretty good job. One guy knifes through but willie just out runs the guy.

Now, more on Davis. He meets his guy a yard before the endzone, and drives him about 4 yards back into the endzone. That was paramount in Willie scoring. Gotta give the man his due here.

Good eyes by willie on the run too.


GIVE LOGAN A PLACE ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3rd drive first play.

2nd quater, change of sides, and the camera men SUCK. It is hard to see much right now.

However, lots of pressure. Looks like a blitz of 6. mendenhall picked up his guy, but not completely. Essex guy finally got through. and Colon's did great. It was a well conceived defensive play. It wasn't completely picked up by the offense, but it looked NO WHERE near liked what the Philly game looked like either :chuckle:

3 seconds before Batch is under pressure. I don't know. I think I have to just give this one to the defense... Batch was able to slip through and throw one incomplete.

Ok. Slo mo from another angle is real interesting. Two guys are comin hard around the right side of the line. Starks and Leg trade off guys and they cross, and Starks is able to get his hands back on him as he comes at Batch. You know, not bad.

3rd drive second play

Ok.. this camera angle REALLY SUCKS.

So realy quick. Mendy gets hit behind the LOS. They blitz just about 8 people. There HAS to be some type of tell happening.

Oops. Wallace caught holding! that's not good.

3rd drive, Fourth play.

Much better camera angle. Two TE set to the left. one back. Batch up under center. Receiver split right, one split left, Wallace slot, moving back behind the te. Rushing four, all TE's receivers, and RB's run routes.

Starks drives his guy to the ground. Leg. drives his guy (Still Haynesworth) behind Batch. The right side of the line is solid. Essex is getting pretty impressive over there. Colon is a stud. Wallace had a nice catch.

4 seconds to throw AT LEAST.

3rd drive Fifth Play

How much am I going to say this? great protection in a 3 wide plus TE play. And it seems this is STILL agianst all the starters for the Skins. Come one Sweed. You gotta catch those!!!!!!!

punt. Sure is nice to see SEP punting.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 05:15 AM
So how do I grade this?

Starks: Sigh. D +. WHen he is on, he does great. When he isn't, he is a pylon. Period.

Legursky. Ok. He was pushed around a little bit.. However, he was pushed around by Albert Haynesworth... and STILL held him to no sacks IMO. A pressure or two, but both of those were because other players (STARKS!!) really schrewed up and pushed the QB up the pocket to Haynesworth. All in all, I gotta say B-... but then I think it was Hayneworth, and gotta bump it up to at LEAST a B.

Hartwig. He did decently blocking. juked out of his jockstrap on a spin move and was upfield on a pass... should have been a penalty. So what do I grade him? Well. I'll give him a C. it was average. However, it WAS ONLY his first game back. So C is very much good enough right now.

Essex. Did very well comparatively. Didn't see much of a problem with him at all. C + to B-.

Colon. B+ to A-. Just can't grow a few more inches. But this guy is going to be here a long time.

Willie seems to be starting to see the outside.. and he has the speed to get there again. Davis played decent again. Didn't blow any blocks. Mendy seemed ok. It will take a bit longer for these guys to really get going. But its going to be ok.

I do think that this year, the pass is going to be come the primary element of this geam, and it will set up the run. I also think that is going to be a good thing.

pancake
08-24-2009, 07:06 AM
I did a little of OL breakdown in game one too and the worse player on the line was Starks... He has to be getting ripped in the film session. I am going to say that our first round pick will be left tackle in 2010...

pancake
08-24-2009, 07:07 AM
So how do I grade this?

Starks: Sigh. D +. WHen he is on, he does great. When he isn't, he is a pylon. Period.

Legursky. Ok. He was pushed around a little bit.. However, he was pushed around by Albert Haynesworth... and STILL held him to no sacks IMO. A pressure or two, but both of those were because other players (STARKS!!) really schrewed up and pushed the QB up the pocket to Haynesworth. All in all, I gotta say B-... but then I think it was Hayneworth, and gotta bump it up to at LEAST a B.

Hartwig. He did decently blocking. juked out of his jockstrap on a spin move and was upfield on a pass... should have been a penalty. So what do I grade him? Well. I'll give him a C. it was average. However, it WAS ONLY his first game back. So C is very much good enough right now.

Essex. Did very well comparatively. Didn't see much of a problem with him at all. C + to B-.

Colon. B+ to A-. Just can't grow a few more inches. But this guy is going to be here a long time.

Willie seems to be starting to see the outside.. and he has the speed to get there again. Davis played decent again. Didn't blow any blocks. Mendy seemed ok. It will take a bit longer for these guys to really get going. But its going to be ok.

I do think that this year, the pass is going to be come the primary element of this geam, and it will set up the run. I also think that is going to be a good thing.

excellent job Preacher... :thumbsup:

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 07:59 AM
i said last week that the Steelers O-line can't do screen passes

sure enough the very first play was a screen and it was a total cluster-f***

mmalone
08-24-2009, 09:47 AM
Just know,,, quick throw to Ward.. throw is low. However, it is out from the QB within 2 seconds. 3 step drop and boom. These kind of playes will REALLY slow down LB's from blitzing, as they will have to stay back to jump routes if we utilzie it.

These are the plays for McDonald and Ward to initiate that will keep QB's standing
watch video.

I know its not a steelers video. but this is the best sampling i can find

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7vvpUbqIcU

revefsreleets
08-24-2009, 10:29 AM
i said last week that the Steelers O-line can't do screen passes

sure enough the very first play was a screen and it was a total cluster-f***

Then Arians would be correct in rarely calling the play, right?

Plus, if I read this correctly, it sounded like the play was executed perfectly, and all the OL performed their job EXCEPT ONE.

Willie was going to be in the open, with the closest guy without a blocker 12 yards away and half way across the feild. The safety is over 15 yards upfield. Willie is standing on the left hash marks (center left of field) with a hole side to run to. BEAUTIFUL scripted play... Starks blew it up.

The rest of the right side of the line seemed to all release their guys on cue for the screen... great timing by colon and Essex. and the TE's.

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Then Arians would be correct in rarely calling the play, right?

Plus, if I read this correctly, it sounded like the play was executed perfectly, and all the OL performed their job EXCEPT ONE.


Yeah, I'm glad they tried it in a preseason game. That's when you are supposed to work on that stuff

I guess it was only Starks fault (i'd have to watch it again and hold back the laughter) but we had Legursky in at LG. Wait till Kemo gets in there, he gets absolutely lost on stuff like that

mmalone
08-24-2009, 11:12 AM
wow, we are a super bowl team and these guys have been running screen plays since high school... and now we are saying we cant run screen plays.. its the players??

wow..
now i am really frustrated....
i guess im done with talking about our offense.

i guess its a smooth runnin ship and Ahab Arians is right on course.. Thar she blows....
The great white end zone...

wow.

revefsreleets
08-24-2009, 11:27 AM
Here's my take on this...

We probably should have run some screen plays against the Eagles last year. The bubble screen is a nice play when they are stuffing 8-9 guys in the box. We have some guys who are good in open space, and if it's executed right, it's a nice option.

Throwing middle screens to a guy like Parker is also a decent option if the D is being really super aggressive, but, again, execution is key.

But let's be real here: We aren't going to win and lose games based on calling a few screens and draws here and there. Also, it doesn't take much for it to fall apart, as we discovered Saturday night on the first play. I don't think it's too much of a reach here to suggest that there is, as usual, probably a damned good reason why we don't run those kinds of plays as often as the Monday morning armchair QB's would like, and it's NOT because Arians is stupid.

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 11:32 AM
We probably should have run some screen plays against the Eagles last year. The bubble screen is a nice play when they are stuffing 8-9 guys in the box.


F ya they should have, that was ridiculous

I decided not to bash Arians anymore but that Eagles game was by far the worst game I have ever seen an offensive coordinator call

revefsreleets
08-24-2009, 11:35 AM
That was also, hands down, his worst called game ever, and he was the first to admit it.

Still, point being, these guys have a TON of different plays to call, and there's more than one option per look the defense gives you. He's NOT going to have success on every play, especially with shoddy line play, and it's unreasonable to expect him to. It's just TOO easy to blame the playcalling and it's the hallmark of lazy, ignorant (or both) fans to dump it all in one lap.

mmalone
08-24-2009, 11:35 AM
F ya they should have, that was ridiculous

question,....

what are these screens called... on the video..

they have a few different styles.. i dont know what they call them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7vvpUbqIcU

HughC
08-24-2009, 11:36 AM
When the opposing team is stacking their defense with eight or nine in the box, that bubble screen can be a highly effective play. It causes the defense to run more than they would want to, and to stretch wide. If they are forced to respect that play the outside linebackers have to play wider, and can't just tee off rushing the QB or RB. The effect is more than just the gain on the play; it can end up resulting in more openings for the RB on future plays, and less of a pass rush because the OLB will be less likely to blitz.

revefsreleets
08-24-2009, 11:39 AM
When the opposing team is stacking their defense with eight or nine in the box, that bubble screen can be a highly effective play. It causes the defense to run more than they would want to, and to stretch wide. If they are forced to respect that play the outside linebackers have to play wider, and can't just tee off rushing the QB or RB. The effect is more than just the gain on the play; it can end up resulting in more openings for the RB on future plays, and less of a pass rush because the OLB will be less likely to blitz.

Thank you for reminding me of the "cascade effect". Perfect example: A reverse. If we run a reverse, and it doesn't gain a bunch of yards, that doesn't necessarily mean the play has failed (although the simpler fans will be calling for Arians head EVERY TIME if it doesn't gain 40 yards and/or score a TD), because it's just as effective at keeping an over pursuing defense honest in the future as it is at exploiting that defensive flaw on any one particular play. I've seen lot's of reverses that were set-up beautifully where 10 of the 11 guys were totally faked out but that 11th player made a spectacular open-field tackle. That play IS a success because it will cause a split second hesitation on ensuing plays by EVERY player on the defense.

As Alonzo said in the movie Training Day: "This shit is chess, not checkers"

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 11:40 AM
question,....

what are these screens called... on the video..

they have a few different styles.. i dont know what they call them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7vvpUbqIcU

most of those aren't screen passes. that's just Welker running short routes and abusing the middle of the field which he is great at

That's why I loved when Clark leveled him last year. If you abuse the middle of the field like that eventually the D needs to just F you up

Then they do the wide reciever screen pass at 30 seconds, we do that too

Rotorhead
08-24-2009, 11:48 AM
I honestly think there wasn't a play that could help us for that game (last year Philly), Ben was being hit .5s after the snap on half the plays called and didnt have time to even look up the field on the rest. It seemed like there were 2-3 def players running, unobstructed, to Ben on every single play. He had to immediately start dodging defenders as soon as the ball was in his hands. That was honestly the worst game I have ever seen any team play in every aspect of the offense . . . fortunately we recovered!!

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 11:51 AM
I honestly think there wasn't a play that could help us for that game (last year Philly), Ben was being hit .5s after the snap on half the plays called and didnt have time to even look up the field on the rest. It seemed like there were 2-3 def players running, unobstructed, to Ben on every single play. He had to immediately start dodging defenders as soon as the ball was in his hands. That was honestly the worst game I have ever seen any team play in every aspect of the offense . . . fortunately we recovered!!

yeah we were probably screwed no matter what but you have to call some quick screens or bubble screens in that scenario to slow the rush and not get your QB killed

i don't think anyone who watched that game thought we had a chance to go on and win the SB lol

Dino 6 Rings
08-24-2009, 12:09 PM
Great Break Down Preacher, thanks for the work.

mmalone
08-24-2009, 12:35 PM
most of those aren't screen passes. that's just Welker running short routes and abusing the middle of the field which he is great at

That's why I loved when Clark leveled him last year. If you abuse the middle of the field like that eventually the D needs to just F you up

Then they do the wide reciever screen pass at 30 seconds, we do that too

thats cool.

dixon and mcdonald were doing alot of this already this preseason. i think mcdonald is good at this.

Steel Head
08-24-2009, 12:40 PM
thats cool.

dixon and mcdonald were doing alot of this already this preseason. i think mcdonald is good at this.

yeah, Ward and Holmes are also really good at it

it seems to be an effective play for us

Preacher
08-24-2009, 04:23 PM
I am really anxious to see what that staring lineup is going to look like. From the last two games, it looks as if we can put Kemo, Hartwig, Legur. and Essex in the three middle positions, and play very strong. So who is the odd man out?

And is it possible to move Essex over to attempt to take Stark's place? He is so DANG inconsistant. Beautiful on one play... then has to stand up and look around for his jockstrap on the next.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 04:25 PM
I did a little of OL breakdown in game one too and the worse player on the line was Starks... He has to be getting ripped in the film session. I am going to say that our first round pick will be left tackle in 2010...


Of course, we have an entire season to play. However, if the last two games are ANY indicator, it would seem that maybe that should be the ONLY O line place we focus on.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-24-2009, 08:14 PM
I am really anxious to see what that staring lineup is going to look like. From the last two games, it looks as if we can put Kemo, Hartwig, Legur. and Essex in the three middle positions, and play very strong. So who is the odd man out?

And is it possible to move Essex over to attempt to take Stark's place? He is so DANG inconsistant. Beautiful on one play... then has to stand up and look around for his jockstrap on the next.

My bet is on Kemo, Hartwig, Essex as the interior linemen with Legursky, Stapleton, Hills, Urbik backing up. If they keep 10, the final spot is between Capizzi or Foster and the loser likely is attempted to sign to the PS.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 09:13 PM
My bet is on Kemo, Hartwig, Essex as the interior linemen with Legursky, Stapleton, Hills, Urbik backing up. If they keep 10, the final spot is between Capizzi or Foster and the loser likely is attempted to sign to the PS.

Thing is, I am not sure Hartwig is better than Legursky.. But I definitely think that Hartwig could play Guard, and let Essex fight Starks for that LT position. However, I think you may be right on the line up.

tony hipchest
08-24-2009, 09:33 PM
Thing is, I am not sure Hartwig is better than Legursky.. But I definitely think that Hartwig could play Guard, and let Essex fight Starks for that LT position. However, I think you may be right on the line up.
colon was able to beat (sb champion starting) RT starks out of a starting spot. essex (even after 5 years) still hasnt proven to be able to do so. :noidea:

he is a back-up... even moreso than starks, colon, kemo and stapelton were/are.

do you (and by "you" i mean us as a collective whole) ever wonder how players like stapelton and legursky can pass up essex so quickly on the depth chart?

Preacher
08-24-2009, 10:01 PM
colon was able to beat (sb champion starting) RT starks out of a starting spot. essex (even after 5 years) still hasnt proven to be able to do so. :noidea:

he is a back-up... even moreso than starks, colon, kemo and stapelton were/are.

do you (and by "you" i mean us as a collective whole) ever wonder how players like stapelton and legursky can pass up essex so quickly on the depth chart?

Good point. Though it is strange, I thought he actually played better at LT than Starks did two years ago.

Tell you this much, it sure is much easier playing monday morning coach than it is to actually do it!!

tony hipchest
08-24-2009, 10:12 PM
Good point. Though it is strange, I thought he actually played better at LT than Starks did two years ago.

:nono: watch it preach... you are boarderline questioning mgmt.

bottom line is the coaches and FO obviously didnt think so, or they would have NEVER placed the franchise tag on him 2 years in a row and ultimately given him a new 4 year deal.

the steelers glorious management couldnt be that far off the mark, now could they? :wink02:

Preacher
08-24-2009, 10:20 PM
:nono: watch it preach... you are boarderline questioning mgmt.

bottom line is the coaches and FO obviously didnt think so, or they would have NEVER placed the franchise tag on him 2 years in a row and ultimately given him a new 4 year deal.

the steelers glorious management couldnt be that far off the mark, now could they? :wink02:

No, I for one am one of those that usually state, "Hey, management knows much more than us." I still do.

I think Starks was tagged not necessarily because he was thought of as being soo good, but because in the long run, there was no one else that they could bring in to take care of the issue. Then, last year, when we had two other guys go down injured, Starks came in and played decently. That meant that the FO had to seriously look at him again, especially with the loss of our RG and LT.

In short, I think our FO did a good job of a bad situation. Of course, we would like to have replaced him. But that dang coach and OC keep winning games. So we can't draft high enough to get good player on the line. :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
08-24-2009, 10:21 PM
:nono: watch it preach... you are boarderline questioning mgmt.

bottom line is the coaches and FO obviously didnt think so, or they would have NEVER placed the franchise tag on him 2 years in a row and ultimately given him a new 4 year deal.

the steelers glorious management couldnt be that far off the mark, now could they? :wink02:
2 words...chuck okolbi

MasterOfPuppets
08-24-2009, 10:26 PM
My bet is on Kemo, Hartwig, Essex as the interior linemen with Legursky, Stapleton, Hills, Urbik backing up. If they keep 10, the final spot is between Capizzi or Foster and the loser likely is attempted to sign to the PS.

i'd like to see foster get the roster spot and stapleton cut....we already seen what stapleton has to offer ... i'd like to see foster in the system for a year and see what he's got next year. we have plenty of guys with position flexibility.

Steelers & I
08-24-2009, 10:29 PM
i said last week that the Steelers O-line can't do screen passessure enough the very first play was a screen and it was a total cluster-f***

They're not very good with play action passes either, just an observation on my part. I sure wish that the guy designing and calling the plays would realize the weaknesses of the offensive line. Instead he continues calling these types of plays and his supporters cry lack of player execution as an excuse for the porous play call.

I think that it's time for some to realize that the offensive lines strong points are not screens, play action pass plays, or running from the singleback formation, they just aren't very effective with those types of plays. I would love to see more use of the I-Formation with a true FB and more pass plays from the Shotgun formation. I believe that those formations would give us a better showing of the offensive lines strengths.

HughC
08-24-2009, 10:46 PM
I did a little of OL breakdown in game one too and the worse player on the line was Starks... He has to be getting ripped in the film session. I am going to say that our first round pick will be left tackle in 2010...
Unfortunately there are usually not too many decent future NFL starting left tackles left in the draft if you don't have a top ten pick - and even fewer when you are (hopefully) making selection #32.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 11:05 PM
They're not very good with play action passes either, just an observation on my part. I sure wish that the guy designing and calling the plays would realize the weaknesses of the offensive line. Instead he continues calling these types of plays and his supporters cry lack of player execution as an excuse for the porous play call.

I think that it's time for some to realize that the offensive lines strong points are not screens, play action pass plays, or running from the singleback formation, they just aren't very effective with those types of plays. I would love to see more use of the I-Formation with a true FB and more pass plays from the Shotgun formation. I believe that those formations would give us a better showing of the offensive lines strengths.

:doh:

I swear all I ever heard last year was "We need to call more screens to take the pressure off of the line." This year, we are working on screens and what do we hear, "We gotta stop calling screens cause they suck."

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

Furthermore, please go back and read through the original posts. 5 of the 8 actual runnign plays were I FORMATION or Offset I formation. And don't give me the stuff about Davis. I have not been able to find ONE (1) this game nor last game... Oh yeah. And the last game, 3 of the 7 times, a FB was used. That is an average of just over 50% of the time a fulback is used. ANd of the times a FB is used, 100% of the time Davis put a hat on a guy and sealed his guy off.

Personally, I think it is high time that we realize that plays which get 2 yards are sometimes much more effective than plays that get 5 yards, because they are used to set up 30 yard passes the next play.. or to keep the defense honest, REGARDLESS of whether they get 4 or 5 yards or not.

Preacher
08-24-2009, 11:07 PM
Unfortunately there are usually not too many decent future NFL starting left tackles left in the draft if you don't have a top ten pick - and even fewer when you are (hopefully) making selection #32.

Ding Ding Ding.

That is probably the MAJOR problem with our team. After all, we picked above number 15 ONCE this decade right?

Who was it we got for that pick? Some schlub if I remember right... Benny Rotten or Johnny Rotten or Johnny rottenburger.

Something like that. :wink02:

Preacher
08-24-2009, 11:09 PM
2 words...chuck okolbi


Yep, but I have two words to match that. Russ Grimm.

After all, it was under Grimm's leadership that Okolbi was kept around. Proof of that, he was immediately brought to Arizona after being cut by the Steelers.

Steelers & I
08-25-2009, 01:50 AM
:doh:

I swear all I ever heard last year was "We need to call more screens to take the pressure off of the line." This year, we are working on screens and what do we hear, "We gotta stop calling screens cause they suck."

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

Furthermore, please go back and read through the original posts. 5 of the 8 actual runnign plays were I FORMATION or Offset I formation. And don't give me the stuff about Davis. I have not been able to find ONE (1) this game nor last game... Oh yeah. And the last game, 3 of the 7 times, a FB was used. That is an average of just over 50% of the time a fulback is used. ANd of the times a FB is used, 100% of the time Davis put a hat on a guy and sealed his guy off.

Personally, I think it is high time that we realize that plays which get 2 yards are sometimes much more effective than plays that get 5 yards, because they are used to set up 30 yard passes the next play.. or to keep the defense honest, REGARDLESS of whether they get 4 or 5 yards or not.


You didn't read anything from me saying that the Steelers need to run more screens so check yourself wrong with that assumption. And furthermore, I'll give you all the "stuff" that I want about Davis. Davis IS NOT a prototypical lead blocking FB. Simply placing a body in front of the RB is no substitution for a "true lead blocking FB". There are players out there who's speciality is to lead block for the ball carrier and Davis is a FAR CRY from that.

Blame the offensive line, go right ahead. I don't believe that the offensive line is great, I've always said that they're average. I realize, by watching them perform, that they're not going to give Roethlisberger much time to pass the ball and they're not going to open gaping holes for the RB. A basic perception that I think we all can agree on.

With that in mind, I don't understand why play action passes are so often used when everyone knows that the Steelers running game is no big threat to many defenses, and everyone is aware of the fact that Steelers QB's are, "many times", quickly harassed by rushing defenders. So why in the hell would anyone design play action pass plays that instruct your QB to waste a precious half of a second to fake a handoff to the RB, thus requiring that the QB turn his back to defenders who are sure to be within arms reach of him? With this OBVIOUS and elementary insight staring Arians in the face, why does he design plays that require, an average at best offensive line, to pass protect longer than they are capable of? :noidea:

Preacher
08-25-2009, 02:27 AM
You didn't read anything from me saying that the Steelers need to run more screens so check yourself wrong with that assumption. And furthermore, I'll give you all the "stuff" that I want about Davis. Davis IS NOT a prototypical lead blocking FB. Simply placing a body in front of the RB is no substitution for a "true lead blocking FB". There are players out there who's speciality is to lead block for the ball carrier and Davis is a FAR CRY from that.

Blame the offensive line, go right ahead. I don't believe that the offensive line is great, I've always said that they're average. I realize, by watching them perform, that they're not going to give Roethlisberger much time to pass the ball and they're not going to open gaping holes for the RB. A basic perception that I think we all can agree on.

With that in mind, I don't understand why play action passes are so often used when everyone knows that the Steelers running game is no big threat to many defenses, and everyone is aware of the fact that Steelers QB's are, "many times", quickly harassed by rushing defenders. So why in the hell would anyone design play action pass plays that instruct your QB to waste a precious half of a second to fake a handoff to the RB, thus requiring that the QB turn his back to defenders who are sure to be within arms reach of him? With this OBVIOUS and elementary insight staring Arians in the face, why does he design plays that require, an average at best offensive line, to pass protect longer than they are capable of? :noidea:

Let's see.

First, I didn't say YOU said it. I said "all I ever heard last year." Not sure how you are including yourself in that.

On Davis. He seals off EVERY block he has been asked to, giving room for the running back to run. What else do you want? I personally don't care if he knocks the guy off his feet or not. STyle points don't matter. AS LONG AS THE GUY IS SEALED, that is all I am asking for. And for the last 2 peseason games, he has done that exceptionally well. Going into the season, we will see how he does. Maybe it is a function of the competition he is now playing against. Who knows. But may I suggest you rewatch the games before you state that Davis is a "far cry" from it... because honestly, except for style points, I am not sure what else you are going to want. Heck, on Willie's TD run, Davis came out and drove his guy backwards over 7 yards, allowing Willie to walk right in. Personally, I'd take that every time.

Offensive line and time? So far, they have given the QB on average, about 3-4 seconds to throw the ball... That is actual counted time before either 1, the QB throws it or 2. the QB is pressured to bring the ball down and dodge a tackle. I did NOT count taking a step up in the pocket, as that is part of the normal protection IMO. If I were to count potential time until he got hit (cause there were a number of times the ball was thrown and the QB STILL had about 3-5 seconds before he would have been contacted), it would probably have been an average of 4-7 seconds. That is a LOT of time. So the line is actually doing exceptionally well in pass protection right now.

On running the ball... yeah, they are not opening holes. But I think that will (hopefully) be fixed by Willie starting to bounce to the outside more often. That will force the D line to spread out some, or force the LB's to hesitate on the inside slants... which will open it up more IMO.

The Play action pass is used not just to fool the defense on THAT play, but it is used to see how they will react, so that a later play MAY BE an actual run in the same way. IT is all a part of a larger strategy to set things up. Matter of fact, against the Cards in the first game, some play-action passes would have caught them with their pants down. It also freezes the LB's from going off into coverage immediately. Regardless if the RB only gets a couple yards on the run, LB's still have to come up and cover. The play-action sells it. Then, when the LB's start ignoring the run game and the PLay action, It becomes a true run for 10 or 15 yards.... and the next play action makes them bite. It is not tactical all the time... often times it must be strategic.

And again, this line has greatly improved in pass protection.

You ever wonder why Ben is all of a sudden able to make plays in the fourth quarter? WHy all of a sudden we are chewing up yards? Part of it is the stupid prevent defense. However, much more of it is the implementation of things learned in teh first three quarters... the capitalizing on plays that were set up before, etc. etc. The game is a whole... not the sum of the parts. You (general) may see 9 bad plays. However, they may have been all GREAT plays because two quarters later, the FS slid over and the LB moved int the flat opening a lane for the slot receiver to take the pass 30 yards. That last play was set up by the previous plays...

Steelers & I
08-25-2009, 04:24 AM
Let's see.

First, I didn't say YOU said it. I said "all I ever heard last year." Not sure how you are including yourself in that.

Lets see, hmmmmm :idea: Maybe it was because you quoted MY POST!

On Davis. He seals off EVERY block he has been asked to, giving room for the running back to run. What else do you want? I personally don't care if he knocks the guy off his feet or not. STyle points don't matter. AS LONG AS THE GUY IS SEALED, that is all I am asking for. And for the last 2 peseason games, he has done that exceptionally well. Going into the season, we will see how he does. Maybe it is a function of the competition he is now playing against. Who knows. But may I suggest you rewatch the games before you state that Davis is a "far cry" from it... because honestly, except for style points, I am not sure what else you are going to want. Heck, on Willie's TD run, Davis came out and drove his guy backwards over 7 yards, allowing Willie to walk right in. Personally, I'd take that every time.

I'll stick with my original statement, I just don't see Davis as a true FB. There's much better out there. If you disagree, fine. We'll just disagree. I believe that we can find others to support both sides.

Offensive line and time? So far, they have given the QB on average, about 3-4 seconds to throw the ball... That is actual counted time before either 1, the QB throws it or 2. the QB is pressured to bring the ball down and dodge a tackle. I did NOT count taking a step up in the pocket, as that is part of the normal protection IMO. If I were to count potential time until he got hit (cause there were a number of times the ball was thrown and the QB STILL had about 3-5 seconds before he would have been contacted), it would probably have been an average of 4-7 seconds. That is a LOT of time. So the line is actually doing exceptionally well in pass protection right now.

Yes, I agree for the most part, exceptional would be a bit of a stretch for me but oh well, as opposed to some of their past performances, exceptional may apply. I just recall seeing Charlie Batch get his bell rung last week after performing a play action maneuver. The hit came almost instantly.

On running the ball... yeah, they are not opening holes. But I think that will (hopefully) be fixed by Willie starting to bounce to the outside more often. That will force the D line to spread out some, or force the LB's to hesitate on the inside slants... which will open it up more IMO.

It seems to me as if most of the runs are designed for Willie to bounce it outside. Yeah Willie's fast but he's not fast if he's not able to get out of the gates. Those attempted stretch runs that we saw all of last season were for the most part stuffed at the LOS. I don't care for their design and I don't believe that the Steelers have the offensive line capabilities to make the stretch runs work with any consistency.

The Play action pass is used not just to fool the defense on THAT play, but it is used to see how they will react, so that a later play MAY BE an actual run in the same way. IT is all a part of a larger strategy to set things up. Matter of fact, against the Cards in the first game, some play-action passes would have caught them with their pants down. It also freezes the LB's from going off into coverage immediately. Regardless if the RB only gets a couple yards on the run, LB's still have to come up and cover. The play-action sells it. Then, when the LB's start ignoring the run game and the PLay action, It becomes a true run for 10 or 15 yards.... and the next play action makes them bite. It is not tactical all the time... often times it must be strategic.

Oh sure, the play action pass plays do work from time to time but they also result in MANY QB sacks.

And again, this line has greatly improved in pass protection.

I agree that they have improved "somewhat".

You ever wonder why Ben is all of a sudden able to make plays in the fourth quarter? WHy all of a sudden we are chewing up yards? Part of it is the stupid prevent defense. However, much more of it is the implementation of things learned in teh first three quarters... the capitalizing on plays that were set up before, etc. etc. The game is a whole... not the sum of the parts. You (general) may see 9 bad plays. However, they may have been all GREAT plays because two quarters later, the FS slid over and the LB moved int the flat opening a lane for the slot receiver to take the pass 30 yards. That last play was set up by the previous plays...

A big part of the Steelers ability to "all of sudden make plays in the fourth quarter" is the NO HUDDLE OFFENSE. Many believe that Ben Roetlisberger is calling the offensive plays in those situations and attribute the success to Ben. I happen to be one of those believers.

The PREDOMINANT reason for much of the Steelers success is Roetlisberger's "unique ability" to juke a pass rushing defender, next he escapes the clutches of a defender who's tugging on his jersey, afterwards he takes a quick jaunt to the line of scrimmage, and then he releases a beautiful pass downfield to the waiting arms of an eligible receiver. Great play call Bruce. :thumbsup:

Preacher
08-25-2009, 04:32 AM
Ok.

Let me rephrase... except for Starks... exceptional. :wink02:

Seriously... it is his guy that usually blows up the play, when that does happen.

There was only twice that I remember that Batch really got hit. Once was just simply a beautiful defensive blitz. That's going to happen once in a while. The second, if I remember right, was Starks making a mistake.

I agree that our run game still needs help. We get no push on the line... or very little (Got a few yards against the cards, which I am actually watching right now again after we were taling about the FB.).

But our pass protection... almost every time... 3-5 seconds of protection. That is absolutely acceptable.. even good for an NFL line. Of course, we all want 10 seconeds... but 3-5 is very good.

mmalone
08-25-2009, 04:50 AM
A big part of the Steelers ability to "all of sudden make plays in the fourth quarter" is the NO HUDDLE OFFENSE. Many believe that Ben Roetlisberger is calling the offensive plays in those situations and attribute the success to Ben. I happen to be one of those believers.

The PREDOMINANT reason for much of the Steelers success is Roetlisberger's "unique ability" to juke a pass rushing defender, next he escapes the clutches of a defender who's tugging on his jersey, afterwards he takes a quick jaunt to the line of scrimmage, and then he releases a beautiful pass downfield to the waiting arms of an eligible receiver. Great play call Bruce. :thumbsup:

The no huddle is the NO Arians series....:tt:

Ben scambling is called not wildcat but ScrambleCAT its a arians repair sequence.:wave:

A one step drop and pass is called a Brady pass. OH we dont do those...

a turn to the left in one motion and pass is.. oh thats a manning pass....

we dont have one of those quick plays either..???

a drop back and wait for 4 recievers to run 20 yards and all end up in the same spot on the field surrounded by defenders... thats a bruce play pass. did you see that one in the redskins game...

wallace, holmes and sweed ran their routes and they were all standing next to each other 15 yards down field.. yes it was an incomplete pass... they walked back to the huddle looking at each other kinda wondering what happen on that play.:tt03:

but when you put the rosie screen cover on your set, arians ball is nice..

Preacher
08-25-2009, 04:58 AM
The no huddle is the NO Arians series....:tt:

Ben scambling is called not wildcat but ScrambleCAT its a arians repair sequence.:wave:

A one step drop and pass is called a Brady pass. OH we dont do those...

a turn to the left in one motion and pass is.. oh thats a manning pass....

we dont have one of those quick plays either..???

a drop back and wait for 4 recievers to run 20 yards and all end up in the same spot on the field surrounded by defenders... thats a bruce play pass. did you see that one in the redskins game...

wallace, holmes and sweed ran their routes and they were all standing next to each other 15 yards down field.. yes it was an incomplete pass... they walked back to the huddle looking at each other kinda wondering what happen on that play.

but when you put the rosie screen cover on your set, arians ball is nice..

Geez dude. You remind me of that kid in grade school that every show and tell brought the same thing, regardless of what the theme was that day.

Give it a break.

Preacher
08-25-2009, 05:01 AM
A big part of the Steelers ability to "all of sudden make plays in the fourth quarter" is the NO HUDDLE OFFENSE. Many believe that Ben Roetlisberger is calling the offensive plays in those situations and attribute the success to Ben. I happen to be one of those believers.

The PREDOMINANT reason for much of the Steelers success is Roetlisberger's "unique ability" to juke a pass rushing defender, next he escapes the clutches of a defender who's tugging on his jersey, afterwards he takes a quick jaunt to the line of scrimmage, and then he releases a beautiful pass downfield to the waiting arms of an eligible receiver. Great play call Bruce. :thumbsup:

Thing is. That speaker in the helmet still turns on. SO Ben is STILL hearing from Arians during that time.

But this ISN"T an Arians thread (thanks to MMalone, I must clarify that now).

I noticed a trend in the last two games as well, as I was rewatching the first game. The 4 and 5 wide were ran in two different ways. One was a 2-3 step drop and immediate throw. The other was a longer throw with a 7 step drop. The 7 step drops were quite funny, because there were NO Cards jersey's or Skins jerseys's around the QB's during most of those plays. I think the quick pass DID drop the LB's back into coverage.

mmalone
08-25-2009, 05:08 AM
Geez dude. You remind me of that kid in grade school that every show and tell brought the same thing, regardless of what the theme was that day.

Give it a break.

im adding color.....

Preacher
08-25-2009, 05:10 AM
im adding color.....

No. You're not. You're detracting from a conversation and being a general ass.

Everyone knows your position concerning Arians. Do you feel the need to continue to ruin threads with it?

mmalone
08-25-2009, 05:49 AM
No. You're not. You're detracting from a conversation and being a general ass.

Everyone knows your position concerning Arians. Do you feel the need to continue to ruin threads with it?

not really, you insist its everyones fault on the team and not the play designs and play calling...

i say design the plays need to match and work with a mediocre OL.

i still dont see it. 2 pre season games and its the same plays as last year.

i think that is getting old too.... you see it one way i see another...

so why am i the ass. i am just trying to get someone to tell me what new play strategies we have this year?? i heard we cant run screens, were a pro team that won a super bowl and we cant run screens, thats analysis....

wow...

please help me here...

i did see dixon roll out and pass and then roll out and run, i know its randall cunnigham stuff, but it keeps the D honest...

something has to loosen the blitzes... im seeing batted balls, rushes from inside, bullrushes, blitzes from the outside... we are not countering these plays...

sorry.

Preacher
08-25-2009, 06:05 AM
not really, you insist its everyones fault on the team and not the play designs and play calling...

i say design the plays need to match and work with a mediocre OL.

i still dont see it. 2 pre season games and its the same plays as last year.

i think that is getting old too.... you see it one way i see another...

so why am i the ass. i am just trying to get someone to tell me what new play strategies we have this year?? i heard we cant run screens, were a pro team that won a super bowl and we cant run screens, thats analysis....

wow...

please help me here...

i did see dixon roll out and pass and then roll out and run, i know its randall cunnigham stuff, but it keeps the D honest...

something has to loosen the blitzes... im seeing batted balls, rushes from inside, bullrushes, blitzes from the outside... we are not countering these plays...

sorry.

Because you came in and cluttered up another thread with the same mantra... instead of actually contributing to the thread like you did in this post.

Please tell me you see the difference.

mmalone
08-25-2009, 06:20 AM
Because you came in and cluttered up another thread with the same mantra... instead of actually contributing to the thread like you did in this post.

Please tell me you see the difference.

i was conversing with the thread you were in with this one, it was related to this ..


Originally Posted by Steelers & I
They're not very good with play action passes either, just an observation on my part. I sure wish that the guy designing and calling the plays would realize the weaknesses of the offensive line. Instead he continues calling these types of plays and his supporters cry lack of player execution as an excuse for the porous play call.

I think that it's time for some to realize that the offensive lines strong points are not screens, play action pass plays, or running from the singleback formation, they just aren't very effective with those types of plays. I would love to see more use of the I-Formation with a true FB and more pass plays from the Shotgun formation. I believe that those formations would give us a better showing of the offensive lines strengths.


my last post is still related to this post...

steeler I ---- different formations would give us a better showing of the offensive lines strengths

but you are avoiding answering these comments.. and i didnt bash anyone in my last comment....

X-Terminator
08-25-2009, 06:21 AM
Because you came in and cluttered up another thread with the same mantra... instead of actually contributing to the thread like you did in this post.

Please tell me you see the difference.

Hmmm...just judging from this post, I guess mmalone has struck again, and ruined yet another thread with his "Arians sucks" BS.

Good job, Mr. Broken Record.

revefsreleets
08-25-2009, 09:45 AM
I noticed that mmalone posted a bunch of pass plays from YouTube, but didn't know what they were, and mistakenly called them screen passes (I didn't actually watch or read, just gleaned this from quotes and answers in quotes, since he's on my ignore). BUT it brings up a valid point: Why is some kid who doesn't know the difference between a screen pass and a short crossing route in ANY position to question an NFL OC, especially one who has a SB win under his belt and has worked closely (and with trust) with tow of the best QB's in the league?

Also, Preach is right....he's engaging in a battle of wits with the architect of the statement that "We should trade or cut Timmons because he's going to be a stud and we won't be able to afford to resign him in a few years".

THIS is the braintrust that wants to argue against Bruce Arians playcalling? Really?

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2009, 09:51 AM
I have to weigh in on the Carey Davis topic. Yeah, he may get some angles on guys or strike fear into CB's like DeAngelo Hall on that TD run...........but the fact is that he is outweighed by Redman, Summers and I think Mendenhall, so he is physically small to block LB's in the hole and his only real value is on special teams coverage.

So, whenever the Steelers get in a situation on short yardage runs where Davis gets stuffed by ILB's, similar to what happened in the Colts, Chargers, Giants, Ravens games last year.....just accept it that he isnt a real FB.

Better off to release him and either use David Johnson or Frank Summers as lead blockers IMO.

sherlock
08-25-2009, 10:04 AM
Thanks very much for your breakdown Preacher.....I haven`t seen the game yet so this is a very good substitute.:hatsoff:
The bubble screen discussion was a bit confusing so I Googled it and found this.
It gives an explaination of the various screens used in American Football....in the unlikely event that there`s people as unknowledgeable as myself on SF, it makes interesting reading.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=davie&page=davie10104week5

revefsreleets
08-25-2009, 10:15 AM
Thanks very much for your breakdown Preacher.....I haven`t seen the game yet so this is a very good substitute.:hatsoff:
The bubble screen discussion was a bit confusing so I Googled it and found this.
It gives an explaination of the various screens used in American Football....in the unlikely event that there`s people as unknowledgeable as myself on SF, it makes interesting reading.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=davie&page=davie10104week5

Bravo! Nice find...I hope a lot of people take the time to read that article and see how these plays develop. By arming themselves with knowledge people can make much more informed posts, and perhaps will start to see that football is a COMPLEX game. Respecting he game and learning about it is a great way to begin to really understand what you are seeing on the filed.

Steel Head
08-25-2009, 10:30 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=davie&page=davie10104week5

from article: 2. Screens slow the pass rush and make defensive linemen eye for screens.

Arians didn't call 1 screen pass in the Eagles game as they were crowding the box and teeing off on Ben. I think even an announcer mentioned they should run some screens. Worst called game I have ever seen by Arians...no adjustments at all

mmalone
08-25-2009, 10:31 AM
I noticed that mmalone posted a bunch of pass plays from YouTube, but didn't know what they were, and mistakenly called them screen passes (I didn't actually watch or read, just gleaned this from quotes and answers in quotes, since he's on my ignore). BUT it brings up a valid point: Why is some kid who doesn't know the difference between a screen pass and a short crossing route in ANY position to question an NFL OC, especially one who has a SB win under his belt and has worked closely (and with trust) with tow of the best QB's in the league?

Also, Preach is right....he's engaging in a battle of wits with the architect of the statement that "We should trade or cut Timmons because he's going to be a stud and we won't be able to afford to resign him in a few years".

THIS is the braintrust that wants to argue against Bruce Arians playcalling? Really?

Please.... read what i said.... short passes and screens and whatever it is that wes welker does.. i asked for an explanation because i dont know, i wasnt acting like i know everything ... you guys get the award for that.

you guys are such brainiacs and blame the OL , you constantly ignore the point of all my madness...

why dont we do these short plays more often.. seen in video for a visual. brady cant run, brady can scramble like ben. he has to have plays that keep him standing.... i dont care if the plays i found online are called short passes or dumps, screens, quick slants.

watch them and tell me why we dont do them 30% of the time.. to hold off the bull rushes.. i keep asking but Preacher, slee boy, master of muppets. keep on making fun of people as arians bashers, but dont answer why we dont do it..

please speak up, dont team up on me and pick on me im just trying to get you guys to tell us all why we dont do this on the field.....

and please dont tell me are pro players cant run screens.... thats all i heard so far from your brain trust... or the OL is bad...

let us know when you can come down to us low life losers and teach us why we dont run quick pass plays and short screens and any other play that holds off the bull rush..

:banging:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2009, 10:34 AM
Thanks very much for your breakdown Preacher.....I haven`t seen the game yet so this is a very good substitute.:hatsoff:
The bubble screen discussion was a bit confusing so I Googled it and found this.
It gives an explaination of the various screens used in American Football....in the unlikely event that there`s people as unknowledgeable as myself on SF, it makes interesting reading.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=davie&page=davie10104week5

That is a nice find. The only screen that Davie doesnt cover is the TE screen that Arians sometimes calls where its a variation of the bubble screen and conventional screen. He sometimes uses it to Miller in the face of blitz situations and is well executed normally.

The only minor issue that I have with Bob Davie is that he sometimes speaks incorrectly about offensive systems. If I am not mistaken, he is a defensive coach that was the architect of the great Tex. Tech "wrecking crew" defenses. This article is spot on.

But, to the point of this thread. good breakdown, but Starks still underperforms to his potential, Carey Davis position should be upgraded and I like Legursky, but Preach you are giving him too much "man love"......it scares me. :wink:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2009, 10:40 AM
why dont we do these short plays more often.. seen in video for a visual. brady cant run, brady can scramble like ben. he has to have plays that keep him standing.... i dont care if the plays i found online are called short passes or dumps, screens, quick slants.

:banging:
Arians does call a lot of short plays out of that bunch formation or wanting to incorporate the TE and Hback. The patriocheats can run a lot of slants and screens because most defenses have to respect the deep threat of Randy Moss with safety help.

Arians has an offensive system, its not the Charlie Weiss system, so expecting the same isnt reasonable. You seem to be advocating a version of the west coast offense and its not really what we do here.

Short passes, dumps, screens against the team speed in the NFL is like giving Reggie Bush the ball on a sweep. It happens to work in the NCAA, but not the NFL consistently. Nothing wrong with the system other than a lack of a real lead blocker for short yardage rushing. IMO.

mmalone
08-25-2009, 11:29 AM
Arians does call a lot of short plays out of that bunch formation or wanting to incorporate the TE and Hback. The patriocheats can run a lot of slants and screens because most defenses have to respect the deep threat of Randy Moss with safety help.

Arians has an offensive system, its not the Charlie Weiss system, so expecting the same isnt reasonable. You seem to be advocating a version of the west coast offense and its not really what we do here.

Short passes, dumps, screens against the team speed in the NFL is like giving Reggie Bush the ball on a sweep. It happens to work in the NCAA, but not the NFL consistently. Nothing wrong with the system other than a lack of a real lead blocker for short yardage rushing. IMO.

i know that bunch formation, it does seem to bring in 9 defenders real quick.
but it does seem to hold the LB's back a bit and we have ok success with it, ariz of course had that same formation...

maybe summers will fill the blocker role that we really need. we dont need anymore runners. we need blockers.

i think we just need more short yardage plays, mcdonald and dixon were eating up 5 yards at a time during there stints on the field, this is kinda the thing i would like to see ben and mcdonald and wallace start doing more. instead of a steady diet of up the middle runs. spice it up with some short pass plays over the defenders, i think ben is tall enough to do it.

also, not sure which of the tight ends is really the best at blocking, other than miller....

sherrod? johnson? Spaeth? McHugh.. which ever ones they are they should stay.

and we need mendenhall to start cacthing some short routes too. moore is the only other candidate for that role. parker says hes working on his catching... and they hardly try mendy in that role.

that in a nutshell is what i think we need. More blockers and good hands short pass catchers. then our OL will get a break.

:drink:

mmalone
08-25-2009, 11:36 AM
Arians does call a lot of short plays out of that bunch formation or wanting to incorporate the TE and Hback. The patriocheats can run a lot of slants and screens because most defenses have to respect the deep threat of Randy Moss with safety help..

Wallace and sweed should help open this door then for us this year.

If i remember correctly, ben had a part in the picking of a sweed type guy, just for this reason, a deep man with a wide target area...

Preacher
08-25-2009, 03:12 PM
But, to the point of this thread. good breakdown, but Starks still underperforms to his potential, Carey Davis position should be upgraded and I like Legursky, but Preach you are giving him too much "man love"......it scares me. :wink:

:rofl:

I am just amazed that everytime I see him play, he seems to be doing something good. He got handled a bit by Haynesworth... but STILL kept H. off of Batch.

On Davis. Do I like him? Bleh... I just think that from what I have seen, there are other positions to worry about more. I, like others, would LOVE to see a fullback that can simly blow up a lb coming through the hoe, and keep on trucking. But I am not worried about Davis.

We are all in agreement it seems concerning Starks. One play he is brilliant, the other he is the brilliant light bulb that has burnt out.

#1 Big Ben Fan
08-25-2009, 03:40 PM
I think if Starks would drop alittle weight would help him out greatly. Max could afford to lose 15-20 pounds off that massive frame of his. I agree the pass protection is adequate right now but I hope it continues in the regular season.

But the pass protection should be somewhat better with Essex in the starting lineup. I think he is much better in pass protection then in the run game.

I thought the break down in this thread was really interesting and I'm thankful for that. Very nice read.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2009, 08:14 PM
:rofl:

I am just amazed that everytime I see him play, he seems to be doing something good. He got handled a bit by Haynesworth... but STILL kept H. off of Batch.
.

Preach, just remember that especially in pass blocking, the D-lineman is the hammer and the O lineman is the nail. Its completely a defensive position and why most O linemen will tell you they like to run block better...because they get to do the hitting.

At best, an O lineman can hope to delay the rush or establish a post foot so that the d lineman like Haynesworth has to go the long way around to get to the playside or QB. Legursky did that for the most part, but I still think he isnt up to where Hartwig is in play or execution.

But ponder this for a second. If Legursky got handled by Haynesworth a bit, what do you think would have happened to Darnell Stapleton against Haynesworth?? :jawdrop:

rich4eagle
08-25-2009, 08:29 PM
great thread.........remember it is only preseason.......but great takes by all

Let it play out............

and I really like that avatar with Cold Rolled Steel

BTW, I focus on skill players both sides of the ball.....especially offense...........If they go gaga no matter what the upfront guys do

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-25-2009, 08:44 PM
BTW, I focus on skill players both sides of the ball.....especially offense...........If they go gaga no matter what the upfront guys do

Sorry, but Timmy Smith of the Redskins only got yardage because of the O line up front.
-the blocking of the O line is why Denver can trot out Mike Anderson, Ruben Droughns, Tatum Bell and have them all get 1000 yards.
-Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Erric Peagram only got yardage because of their O line.
-Ray Lewis cried when he lost Siragusa and Sam Adams up front because he then had O linemen blocking him. That is whey they got Ngata in the 1st round.

It all starts up front, on both sides of the football !!!!!

Steelers & I
08-25-2009, 10:34 PM
I noticed that mmalone posted a bunch of pass plays from YouTube, but didn't know what they were, and mistakenly called them screen passes (I didn't actually watch or read, just gleaned this from quotes and answers in quotes, since he's on my ignore). BUT it brings up a valid point: Why is some kid who doesn't know the difference between a screen pass and a short crossing route in ANY position to question an NFL OC, especially one who has a SB win under his belt and has worked closely (and with trust) with tow of the best QB's in the league?

Also, Preach is right....he's engaging in a battle of wits with the architect of the statement that "We should trade or cut Timmons because he's going to be a stud and we won't be able to afford to resign him in a few years".

THIS is the braintrust that wants to argue against Bruce Arians playcalling? Really?

You truly do find difficulty in forgetting about a guy that's on your ignore list, don't you?
If you like me so much, why don't you invite me to your lil sports bar? We'll watch a game together and have a great time, I'm sure of it.

In the meantime, don't attempt to quote me with your bull$hit lies. You'll never find one posting from me that is verbatim to the lying trash that you've quoted above. What's up with you? Has Arians moved from your neighborhood and changed his cell number so now you're in search of someone else to stalk?

Preacher
08-26-2009, 01:33 AM
Preach, just remember that especially in pass blocking, the D-lineman is the hammer and the O lineman is the nail. Its completely a defensive position and why most O linemen will tell you they like to run block better...because they get to do the hitting.

At best, an O lineman can hope to delay the rush or establish a post foot so that the d lineman like Haynesworth has to go the long way around to get to the playside or QB. Legursky did that for the most part, but I still think he isnt up to where Hartwig is in play or execution.

But ponder this for a second. If Legursky got handled by Haynesworth a bit, what do you think would have happened to Darnell Stapleton against Haynesworth?? :jawdrop:


Too true.

But the one thing is... I saw Hartwig get juked out of his drawers on a spin move. Beautiful move. Didn't see that with Legurskey. Not sure why... Longer wingspan maybe?

And yeah... I know that on pass plays... it is very different. That was why I had no problem... actually was a bit surprised when Leg. would take two steps back and then stonewall his guy the first game. Watching him with Haynesworth, it wasn't quite that easy... but that guy is a beast as well. All in all though, I think the future looks a bit brighter with him in the picture...don't you? (rhetorical, I know hwat you have already posted on him.... and that you agree).

All I know is this... I think Kemo, Leg. and Hartwig could set upa formidable line.

mmalone
08-26-2009, 04:47 AM
You truly do find difficulty in forgetting about a guy that's on your ignore list, don't you?
If you like me so much, why don't you invite me to your lil sports bar? We'll watch a game together and have a great time, I'm sure of it.

In the meantime, don't attempt to quote me with your bull$hit lies. You'll never find one posting from me that is verbatim to the lying trash that you've quoted above. What's up with you? Has Arians moved from your neighborhood and changed his cell number so now you're in search of someone else to stalk?

rev streets is right.. i posted the wes welker pass plays first, then i posted them again. it was supposed the giants video. this one.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-giants/09000d5d811f8761/Pre-WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Play-Beware-of-Ware

the giants do this often, i seen it with better formation, but it is a killer..

its like 4 or 5 guys break and make a wedge...

Steel Head
08-26-2009, 07:00 AM
rev streets is right.. i posted the wes welker pass plays first, then i posted them again. it was supposed the giants video. this one.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-giants/09000d5d811f8761/Pre-WK-1-Can-t-Miss-Play-Beware-of-Ware

the giants do this often, i seen it with better formation, but it is a killer..

its like 4 or 5 guys break and make a wedge...

The Giants are one of the best at running screens. Their O-line is like a well-oiled machine all on the same page. Our line would screw up most of those

mmalone
08-26-2009, 09:05 AM
The Giants are one of the best at running screens. Their O-line is like a well-oiled machine all on the same page. Our line would screw up most of those

it would be sweet to see us perfect some of these plays..

SteelMember
08-26-2009, 11:09 AM
For all the hate, did anyone notice Mendenhall in the 2nd quarter? He had some nice runs, and most were "up the middle". :noidea:

mmalone
08-26-2009, 11:16 AM
For all the hate, did anyone notice Mendenhall in the 2nd quarter? He had some nice runs, and most were "up the middle". :noidea:

he needs to run those as does a redman, summers and a davis

that middle is for the bigger stronger younger boys.

parker and moore have better luck outside..