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Stlrs4Life
08-25-2009, 08:51 PM
Uh-Oh, Lawrence Timmons struggles against the run.
By Dagger | August 24, 2009

http://www.postgameheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/skinssteelers.jpg

Two preseason games in the books and in both contests Lawrence Timmons has looked very shaky vs the run. We all thought it was odd last year when Timmons appeared ready to start yet remained on the bench on 1st and 2nd down. Larry Foote was clearly playing his last season with the Steelers yet still held down the starting job over Timmons. We may be slowly starting to understand why Timmons was being “hidden” and only came onto the field on 3rd down and passing situations. He’s great at getting to the QB, he can drop into a zone, and is athletic enough to cover a RB, TE, or even a WR in coverage.
Two meaningless preseason games aren’t enough visual evidence to send us into a panic but the Steelers need Timmons to plug holes, track the ball, shed blocks, and tackle guys in the run game.
While Timmons has struggled a bit through two games, Keyaron Fox has looked fantastic. He is playing so well, in fact, that some people out there wouldn’t mind seeing Fox step into Foote’s old role as the ILB on 1st and 2nd down and then giving way to Timmons on 3rd and passing situations. It’s a bit early to suggest a move as drastic as this, but it really wouldn’t be a bad idea if Keyaron Fox is able to keep up this level of play. I’m not ready to go this far just yet, but it’s nice to know that if for some reason Timmons struggles, Fox is a guy that is capable of stepping in and playing the role of Larry Foote. It’s also important to note that Fox is being given the chance to see some action with the starters in short-yardage and goal line situations. Obviously the coaches like the way he is playing right now.
Take a look at the 2 minute video we posted below. Timmons flashes his speed and skill a few times but he also has some incredibly ugly snaps. Fox is also featured and looks great. I think you will find that Timmons struggles when the ball is run right at him. When the ball goes the other direction, he is great at tracking down the ballcarrier with his speed. Fox on the other hand looks like a natural ILB and doesn’t care if the play is run at him or away from him. He sheds blocks, tracks the ball, and makes a play.

Analysis video here:

http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6243073&amp

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=7417

Psyychoward86
08-25-2009, 08:58 PM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/sky-is-falling.jpg

TheWarDen86
08-25-2009, 09:06 PM
He's a little light and may struggle head-on against a bigger back up the gut. But one of his main attributes is his speed. Dude can get to either side and cut off the outside run in a heart beat. Hopefully he can make the tackle, but I think he still brings something to the table.

Maybe Fox will take Timmons place in short yardage sits. Who knows.

I can't view videos here so I commented based on my own observations.

BlastFurnace
08-25-2009, 09:21 PM
He'll be playing more this weekend. We'll see what happens. It's something the Steelers need to keep an eye on though.

wootawnee
08-25-2009, 10:49 PM
There is no way LT will be as good as LF vs the run.......

Steelers & I
08-25-2009, 11:29 PM
:countdown Like I've said before, trade Timmons NOW while there are still teams out there that believe that he has great value. If Timmons happens to sit around playing special teams, and 3rd downs in this his 3rd season, then you can bet your bottom dollar that his value will drop off tremendously. At that point the Steelers will be stuck with a 1st round draft choice who has done nothing more than play spot football. He'll walk away after his contract expires, if he isn't released first, and the Steelers will get nothing in return. Trade him now Steelers, there are still morons out there who believe that Timmons is a beast.

tony hipchest
08-25-2009, 11:46 PM
dude.... even if timmons is a complete bust (which he wont be) do you think teams bat 1.000 on 100% of their first round picks all of the time?

timmons will be fine. you are about the only person on earth who buys in to theis "trade timmons now" philosophy, which pretty much supports that its a rather bogus idea.

let it go. its not happenin. hate the rooneys if you dont like it.

MACH1
08-26-2009, 12:08 AM
http://www.carspace.com/.5bd82d65/cmd.233/embedded..5c46da5c

RoethlisBURGHer
08-26-2009, 12:18 AM
I think Timmons will be good enough against the run. He just has to tackle low instead of trying to tackle high.

Do the highlight hits come from hitting high? Yes, but I would rather have Timmons tackle low and make the tackle than get blown up or hurt trying to tackle high.

Steelers & I
08-26-2009, 02:03 AM
dude.... even if timmons is a complete bust (which he wont be) do you think teams bat 1.000 on 100% of their first round picks all of the time?

No I don't believe that, where have you seen a posting such as that from me? It sounds like some others may need to come to realize that Timmons may just become, dare I say, No, I'll just say he may prove to be a big disappointment.

timmons will be fine. you are about the only person on earth who buys in to theis "trade timmons now" philosophy, which pretty much supports that its a rather bogus idea.

Then so be it, that will make it that much sweeter if I'm the "only person" who saw it coming.

let it go. its not happenin. hate the rooneys if you dont like it.

Nah, I'll never hate the Rooneys. I'm just predicting that Timmons will be "another 1st round draft choice mistake" by the Steelers organization. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen but as far as I'm concerned, Timmons is yet to impress many.

Preacher
08-26-2009, 02:22 AM
Sigh.

(BTW, STLRS4life... thanks for providing it and the links....)

Ok. Let's take a close look at the vids.

1st play. Watch Troy P. Come up. Troy, James, and Timmons all seem to have gap assignments for the run. Timmons drives into his gap, stuffing the FB. Watch closely what happens. The RB has to fade back and to the right and the crowd, allowing Troy P. to tackle him.

2nd play.

He comes to the pack. Now. Does he hesitate? Yeah. But the question is why? Watch closely. It looks like he is the QB spy, and is watching for the QB to role out in a bootleg after a play-action. It seems that Timmons checks down the QB to make sure he doesn't have the ball... and then looks back to the RB.

In other words, he isn't going to bight on the same type of play that Anthony Smith bit on... different positions, but I think you all get the point.

3rd play

Dang. He got blown up! Not sure what hurt worse... the play, or watching the play in film study the next day!

4th play.

Seems to me the RE get pushed out of his gap assignment. Not sure how that is Timmons fault, unless Timmons was schemed for that gap and took it upon himself to go outside.

5th play.

Nice job. Hit the guy at the line... kept the feet moving and moved down the line, met the RB a few fight further down and brought him down with help from the others.

6th play

Lead guy taken on the lead block. he gets moved out of the way a bit... but not enough to clear a lane. RB forced inside for the other two Steelers.... Seems to have been an ok job. Nothing to write home about, nothing to lambaste the guy about. BTW, the FB through the hole took a bad angle to Fox. Any of our linebackers would have made that play. Good for Fox to do so as well.

7th play.

Timmons comes up to the line at the snap.. follows the run all the way tdown the line, and then makes a leg tackle. Nice play.

8th play.

Fox. Nice run and tackle. BUt I gotta wonder... did he stay in his lane incase of a reverse? We would have been KILLED on a cutback or reverse.
_______

Yeah, I am being a bit snarky about Fox. I do like what I saw out of him.

However, I am not seeing the fear of Timmons sucking. I think he will have some mistakes, and be very good in other places.

X-Terminator
08-26-2009, 04:40 AM
[

No I don't believe that, where have you seen a posting such as that from me? It sounds like some others may need to come to realize that Timmons may just become, dare I say, No, I'll just say he may prove to be a big disappointment.



Then so be it, that will make it that much sweeter if I'm the "only person" who saw it coming.


Nah, I'll never hate the Rooneys. I'm just predicting that Timmons will be "another 1st round draft choice mistake" by the Steelers organization. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen but as far as I'm concerned, Timmons is yet to impress many.

Hey, if you want to give up on a 23 year old player with a ton of talent and upside, you go right ahead. I am not going to do that. I guess I'm one of the "morons" who believes the kid will be just fine - he has too much talent NOT to end up being successful. The Rooneys would not have let Foote walk if they didn't feel Timmons was ready to step in, and I believe in this coaching staff's ability to get the most out of his talent.

Fire Haley
08-26-2009, 07:48 AM
He's got to learn to stuff the run better, but he's a big plus on passing downs.
Ask Mason.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04QacM29px1rz/340x.jpg

Vis
08-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Hey, if you want to give up on a 23 year old player with a ton of talent and upside, you go right ahead. I am not going to do that. I guess I'm one of the "morons" who believes the kid will be just fine - he has too much talent NOT to end up being successful. The Rooneys would not have let Foote walk if they didn't feel Timmons was ready to step in, and I believe in this coaching staff's ability to get the most out of his talent.

At that age Harrison was still being cut.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-26-2009, 08:42 AM
Way to early to start jumping on the Timmons doubt-wagon.

Totally unjustified with two pres-season games.

The_WARDen
08-26-2009, 08:54 AM
only 15 days til a meaningful game!

Indo
08-26-2009, 08:59 AM
At that age Harrison was still being cut.

Same point that I was going to make-----
I guess we should have traded him and cut our losses

mmalone
08-26-2009, 09:01 AM
Way to early to start jumping on the Timmons doubt-wagon.

Totally unjustified with two pres-season games.

I would say our defensive coaches can handle these glitches with the players.

Here we can say we are #1 and coached to perfection. no worries.

The_WARDen
08-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Same point that I was going to make-----
I guess we should have traded him and cut our losses

They actually did cut him didn't they? I don't see the point.

revefsreleets
08-26-2009, 10:01 AM
No, no, no...you're missing the point. We actually SHOULD have traded Harrison, other wise when he panned out, we'd have had to pay him a big contract.

Oh...errrrrr....um....wait.

Timmons will be just fine. He won't be a bust, and when contract talks arrive, if he's a stud they'll pay him.

TheWarDen86
08-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Nah, I'll never hate the Rooneys. I'm just predicting that Timmons will be "another 1st round draft choice mistake" by the Steelers organization. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen but as far as I'm concerned, Timmons is yet to impress many.

When was the last time the Steelers drafted a "bust" linebacker???? I don't think they have in my lifetime.

revefsreleets
08-26-2009, 10:06 AM
When was the last time the Steelers drafted a "bust" linebacker???? I don't think they have in my lifetime.

Zo Jackson

SteelMember
08-26-2009, 10:15 AM
When was the last time the Steelers drafted a "bust" linebacker???? I don't think they have in my lifetime.

Not many, but to add another...Rian Wallace. To be fair, he was a 5th rounder.

A bust to me would be a 1st or 2nd rounder.

EDIT: Huey Richardson , 1st round - 1991

fansince'76
08-26-2009, 10:15 AM
When was the last time the Steelers drafted a "bust" linebacker???? I don't think they have in my lifetime.

Don't forget Huey Richardson....

BlastFurnace
08-26-2009, 10:21 AM
Timmons isn't a bust by any stretch. He was pretty darned good in the role he had last year. As a matter of fact, what he did with his speed and versatility, allowed Troy to be free'd up in the secondary.

SteelMember
08-26-2009, 10:28 AM
Don't forget Huey Richardson....

Good Call. :chuckle: I think we came in at the same time.

So, I'll raise you 2 oldtimers. Both 2nd rounders.

Bob Kohrs - 1980
Zack Valentine - 1979

and btw, I have zero thought of Timmons being a bust at this point. It's just more fun to look at the old rosters then debate it.

Dizzle43
08-26-2009, 10:43 AM
It's just the preseason people.

Vis
08-26-2009, 10:43 AM
They actually did cut him didn't they? I don't see the point.

The point is, hold your water.

Indo
08-26-2009, 10:47 AM
They actually did cut him didn't they? I don't see the point.

The point is that Harrison wasn't exactly the greatest LB at first, but with a little seasoning he turned out to be Def. MVP and make the greatest defensive SB play ever.

I think people on this board shouldn't be so quick to declare that someone sucks or is "cause for concern" and should be traded to cut our losses until the guy is given an opportunity to show his potential over a period of time. How much time? I don't know...but as far as Timmons goes, he's gonna be a great LB, IMO

fansince'76
08-26-2009, 11:16 AM
Good Call. :chuckle: I think we came in at the same time.

So, I'll raise you 2 oldtimers. Both 2nd rounders.

Bob Kohrs - 1980
Zack Valentine - 1979

and btw, I have zero thought of Timmons being a bust at this point. It's just more fun to look at the old rosters then debate it.

Wow - forgot about Kohrs and Valentine. That's going WAY back. The fact that I have to strain to think of more without looking up rosters and drafts over the years means the FO has done a good job all in all, IMO. And I agree, I'm not ready to lump Timmons into the "bust pile" just yet either.

lamberts-lost-tooth
08-26-2009, 11:30 AM
. And I agree, I'm not ready to lump Timmons into the "bust pile" just yet either.

Exactly...I am pretty confident that Lebeau is a better judge of defensive talent then any of us coaching from our couches.

I think I will take it for granted that, if Timmons had "bust" potential...Dick will know it before we will.:noidea:

Steeldude
08-26-2009, 11:46 AM
it couldn't be any worse than foote's run support. he sat and waited for ball carriers to come to him. when they did he got knocked back a lot.

scsteeler
08-26-2009, 01:53 PM
I think Timmons will be good enough against the run. He just has to tackle low instead of trying to tackle high.

Do the highlight hits come from hitting high? Yes, but I would rather have Timmons tackle low and make the tackle than get blown up or hurt trying to tackle high.


I agree!!!

Timmon's downside was that he needed to work on his strength which should improve his tackling and yes I have always believed in attacking a runner down low instead of high.

steeltheone
08-26-2009, 02:15 PM
it couldn't be any worse than foote's run support. he sat and waited for ball carriers to come to him. when they did he got knocked back a lot.

Agreed...Foote gets way too much credit on this site..Average at best

TheWarDen86
08-26-2009, 02:40 PM
Zo Jackson

Not many, but to add another...Rian Wallace. To be fair, he was a 5th rounder.

A bust to me would be a 1st or 2nd rounder.

EDIT: Huey Richardson , 1st round - 1991

Good Call. :chuckle: I think we came in at the same time.

So, I'll raise you 2 oldtimers. Both 2nd rounders.

Bob Kohrs - 1980
Zack Valentine - 1979

and btw, I have zero thought of Timmons being a bust at this point. It's just more fun to look at the old rosters then debate it.


:doh:


You guys are killing me. :chuckle:

At least we agree that Timmons is not a bust. Not yet at least.

He definitely brings something to the table.

mmalone
08-26-2009, 03:23 PM
:doh:


You guys are killing me. :chuckle:

At least we agree that Timmons is not a bust. Not yet at least.

He definitely brings something to the table.

i thought Lambert was a bust, he didnt last 30 years...
:drink:

Steelers & I
08-26-2009, 10:24 PM
No, no, no...you're missing the point. We actually SHOULD have traded Harrison, other wise when he panned out, we'd have had to pay him a big contract.[/B]
Oh...errrrrr....um....wait.

Timmons will be just fine. He won't be a bust, and when contract talks arrive, if he's a stud they'll pay him.


I enjoy how this guy thinks that he's so cute, so intelligent, and so informed on Steelers football. In his attempts to downgrade the opinions of other posters, he does nothing more than strengthen their point.

In this clowns statement above, the bold portion, he contradicts his own belief, the belief that we've all read from him 1000 times: "The Steelers front office knows best" so how dare any of us ever question any of their decisions.

Well Mrs. Bum Hat, the Steelers front office sure as hell screwed up when they cut James Harrison how many times? Once, twice, or maybe it was 3 times you lady.

Enough said, hopefully, based off of your own statement, you'll come to realize that the Steelers front office does "OCCASIONALY" make mistakes. Timmons may ultimately pan out to be another mistake.

Cheppy
08-26-2009, 10:30 PM
I enjoy how this guy thinks that he's so cute, so intelligent, and so informed on Steelers football. In his attempts to downgrade the opinions of other posters, he does nothing more than strengthen their point.

In this clowns statement above, the bold portion, he contradicts his own belief, the belief that we've all read from him 1000 times: "The Steelers front office knows best" so how dare any of us ever question any of their decisions.

Well Mrs. Bum Hat, the Steelers front office sure as hell screwed up when they cut James Harrison how many times? Once, twice, or maybe it was 3 times you lady.

Enough said, hopefully, based off of your own statement, you'll come to realize that the Steelers front office does "OCCASIONALY" make mistakes. Timmons may ultimately pan out to be another mistake.

I think Timmons will be a significant player for this team.

But yeah, Revs is pretty hilarious. It's not even about opposing views with that guy. It's all pretty black & white.

He has his little niche though.

Steelers & I
08-26-2009, 10:31 PM
When was the last time the Steelers drafted a "bust" linebacker???? I don't think they have in my lifetime.


Steven Conley, a 3rd round draft choice TOTAL BUST, just to name one for you.

tony hipchest
08-26-2009, 10:41 PM
I enjoy how this guy thinks that he's so cute, so intelligent, and so informed on Steelers football. In his attempts to downgrade the opinions of other posters, he does nothing more than strengthen their point.

In this clowns statement above, the bold portion, he contradicts his own belief, the belief that we've all read from him 1000 times: "The Steelers front office knows best" so how dare any of us ever question any of their decisions.

Well Mrs. Bum Hat, the Steelers front office sure as hell screwed up when they cut James Harrison how many times? Once, twice, or maybe it was 3 times you lady.

Enough said, hopefully, based off of your own statement, you'll come to realize that the Steelers front office does "OCCASIONALY" make mistakes. Timmons may ultimately pan out to be another mistake.

wtf???

steelers made no mistake in cutting james harrison. he was pretty much piss poor to any of the 32 teams in the nfl.

he was an undisciplined hothead who refused any instruction, and he will admit as much.

steelers gave him a final chance and he is the one who capitalized on it. dont make it like its the steelers who "screwed up".

there is the "right way" and the "wrong way". i'll let you decide which one is the "rooney way".

harrison wasnt going about things the right way when he couldnt make a roster and was getting cut.

his mistake, not theirs. thank goodness for all he finally "got it".

Steelers & I
08-26-2009, 10:49 PM
wtf???

steelers made no mistake in cutting james harrison. he was pretty much piss poor to any of the 32 teams in the nfl.

he was an undisciplined hothead who refused any instruction, and he will admit as much.

steelers gave him a final chance and he is the one who capitalized on it. dont make it like its the steelers who "screwed up".

there is the "right way" and the "wrong way". i'll let you decide which one is the "rooney way".

harrison wasnt going about things the right way when he couldnt make a roster and was getting cut.

his mistake, not theirs. thank goodness for all he finally "got it".


Harrison may have been a bit of a problem but probably not anywhere near to the extent that you're attempting to point out here. If he was as bad as you've indicated above, then I sure as hell believe that the Steelers would have washed their hands of him for good. That's the "Rooney way" that I've come to know.

Preacher
08-26-2009, 10:56 PM
I enjoy how this guy thinks that he's so cute, so intelligent, and so informed on Steelers football. In his attempts to downgrade the opinions of other posters, he does nothing more than strengthen their point.

In this clowns statement above, the bold portion, he contradicts his own belief, the belief that we've all read from him 1000 times: "The Steelers front office knows best" so how dare any of us ever question any of their decisions.

Well Mrs. Bum Hat, the Steelers front office sure as hell screwed up when they cut James Harrison how many times? Once, twice, or maybe it was 3 times you lady.

Enough said, hopefully, based off of your own statement, you'll come to realize that the Steelers front office does "OCCASIONALY" make mistakes. Timmons may ultimately pan out to be another mistake.

And Ben R. Still MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Ziggy MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Sweed MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Mendy MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Woodley still MAY pan out to be a mistake after a good year,

RoethlisBURGHer
08-26-2009, 11:14 PM
Harrison may have been a bit of a problem but probably not anywhere near to the extent that you're attempting to point out here. If he was as bad as you've indicated above, then I sure as hell believe that the Steelers would have washed their hands of him for good. That's the "Rooney way" that I've come to know.

He probably was that way. That's why he was brought into training camp and then cut. They saw the potential but he didn't have his head on straight. He finally got his head on straight and it has paid off.

He knew that that last phone call was his final chance, and he decided to do as told.

Steelers & I
08-27-2009, 01:37 AM
And Ben R. Still MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Ziggy MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Sweed MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Mendy MAY pan out to be a mistake, and Woodley still MAY pan out to be a mistake after a good year,


I just wanted to point out that the silly quotes above are the works of Preacher beginning with the bold and underlined "And".

Ben, a 1st round draft choice just like Timmons, didn't take nearly 3 years to nail down a starting position. Ben earned his spot, Timmons was handed a starting spot in the off-season by way of Foote's departure. We're yet to see if he remains the starter that he was penciled in to be.

Sweed?? Who knows about him. He wasn't a 1st round draft choice so he's allowed a little more leeway. Holmes, a 1st rounder, didn't exactly set the NFL on fire in his 1st season so I'll give Sweed another season before I grade him.

Ziggy Hood hasn't even played in a regular season game yet but I'll bet that it doesn't take him nearly 3 season to "become acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense", an excuse that has been used for Timmons.

Mendenhall as you know was injured last season, another excuse that has been tossed around for Timmons. In this his second season, you watch Mendy become a major contributer.

You suggested that Woodley may not pan out? I certainly hope that you're just being hypothetical. Woodley has already panned out. Woodley IS THE BEAST that so many of you have labeled Timmons as being. Prior to his second season he NAILED DOWN A STARTING POSITION. He, as well as MANY other former Steelers Linebackers, had NO TROUBLE becomming acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense in short order.

Excuses, excuses, and even more excuses for Timmons. Nobody wants to admit that the Steelers may have fouled up in drafting Timmons. Yeah, maybe they fouled up, again. No shame in that, it has happened, and it will happen again.

I guess I'm just not one that believes that everyone associated with the Steelers organization is Grade A #1. No shame in that either.

Preacher
08-27-2009, 01:44 AM
I just wanted to point out that the silly quotes above are the works of Preacher beginning with the bold and underlined "And".

Ben, a 1st round draft choice just like Timmons, didn't take nearly 3 years to nail down a starting position. Ben earned his spot, Timmons was handed a starting spot in the off-season by way of Foote's departure. We're yet to see if he remains the starter that he was penciled in to be.

Sweed?? Who knows about him. He wasn't a 1st round draft choice so he's allowed a little more leeway. Holmes, a 1st rounder, didn't exactly set the NFL on fire in his 1st season so I'll give Sweed another season before I grade him.

Ziggy Hood hasn't even played in a regular season game yet but I'll bet that it doesn't take him nearly 3 season to "become acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense", an excuse that has been used for Timmons.

Mendenhall as you know was injured last season, another excuse that has been tossed around for Timmons. In this his second season, you watch Mendy become a major contributer.

You suggested that Woodley may not pan out? I certainly hope that you're just being hypothetical. Woodley has already panned out. Woodley IS THE BEAST that so many of you have labeled Timmons as being. Prior to his second season he NAILED DOWN A STARTING POSITION. He, as well as MANY other former Steelers Linebackers, had NO TROUBLE becomming acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense in short order.

Excuses, excuses, and even more excuses for Timmons. Nobody wants to admit that the Steelers may have fouled up in drafting Timmons. Yeah, maybe they fouled up, again. No shame in that, it has happened, and it will happen again.

I guess I'm just not one that believes that everyone associated with the Steelers organization is Grade A #1. No shame in that either.


You got all that from my post? :finger:

I was poking fun at your post... because you left so many doors open that your statement was practically useless. I guess my sarcasm was lost on you. Sorry. In other words, it is true that ANY player MAY not pan out.

Steelers & I
08-27-2009, 01:52 AM
He probably was that way. That's why he was brought into training camp and then cut. They saw the potential but he didn't have his head on straight. He finally got his head on straight and it has paid off.

He knew that that last phone call was his final chance, and he decided to do as told.

I don't know, I've read the stories and seen the interviews relating to Harrison and his early years with the Steelers. I didn't come away with the impression that his attitude was all that bad. I basically came away believing that his disposition was somewhat like that of Greg Lloyd's. I don't have any real insight so you may be right???

I just find it hard to believe that the Steelers, who have traditionaly refused to even host a free agent player who is "rumored" to be a sore spot with his former team, would then in turn re-sign one of their own troubled players after having previous up close and personal knowledge of him.

Steelers & I
08-27-2009, 01:54 AM
You got all that from my post? :finger:

I was poking fun at your post... because you left so many doors open that your statement was practically useless. I guess my sarcasm was lost on you. Sorry. In other words, it is true that ANY player MAY not pan out.


And I was poking fun at one of your posts, :rofl: which by the way, are ALL open for criticism.

Preacher
08-27-2009, 02:17 AM
And I was poking fun at one of your posts, :rofl: which by the way, are ALL open for criticism.

:doh:

Preacher
08-27-2009, 02:19 AM
I don't know, I've read the stories and seen the interviews relating to Harrison and his early years with the Steelers. I didn't come away with the impression that his attitude was all that bad. I basically came away believing that his disposition was somewhat like that of Greg Lloyd's. I don't have any real insight so you may be right???

I just find it hard to believe that the Steelers, who have traditionaly refused to even host a free agent player who is "rumored" to be a sore spot with his former team, would then in turn re-sign one of their own troubled players after having previous up close and personal knowledge of him.

It wasn't a bad attitude as much as (from what I have read here and there), he would be in the middle of a play... and if he was confused by the play, would simply throw up his hands and walk away from it.

It seems at somepoint either the game 1. Slowed down for him or 2. He clicked in to the schemes.

I can't remember were I read that, but it sticks in the brain about him.

Steelers & I
08-27-2009, 02:29 AM
It wasn't a bad attitude as much as (from what I have read here and there), he would be in the middle of a play... and if he was confused by the play, would simply throw up his hands and walk away from it.

It seems at somepoint either the game 1. Slowed down for him or 2. He clicked in to the schemes.

I can't remember were I read that, but it sticks in the brain about him.


Well I can believe this post but I'm not prepared to buy into Tony's recollection of events. I just don't believe that the Steelers would have had anything to do with Harrison had he been as bad as Tony speculated.

X-Terminator
08-27-2009, 06:35 AM
I just wanted to point out that the silly quotes above are the works of Preacher beginning with the bold and underlined "And".

Ben, a 1st round draft choice just like Timmons, didn't take nearly 3 years to nail down a starting position. Ben earned his spot, Timmons was handed a starting spot in the off-season by way of Foote's departure. We're yet to see if he remains the starter that he was penciled in to be.

Sweed?? Who knows about him. He wasn't a 1st round draft choice so he's allowed a little more leeway. Holmes, a 1st rounder, didn't exactly set the NFL on fire in his 1st season so I'll give Sweed another season before I grade him.

Ziggy Hood hasn't even played in a regular season game yet but I'll bet that it doesn't take him nearly 3 season to "become acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense", an excuse that has been used for Timmons.

Mendenhall as you know was injured last season, another excuse that has been tossed around for Timmons. In this his second season, you watch Mendy become a major contributer.

You suggested that Woodley may not pan out? I certainly hope that you're just being hypothetical. Woodley has already panned out. Woodley IS THE BEAST that so many of you have labeled Timmons as being. Prior to his second season he NAILED DOWN A STARTING POSITION. He, as well as MANY other former Steelers Linebackers, had NO TROUBLE becomming acclimated with LeBeau's very complicated defense in short order.

Excuses, excuses, and even more excuses for Timmons. Nobody wants to admit that the Steelers may have fouled up in drafting Timmons. Yeah, maybe they fouled up, again. No shame in that, it has happened, and it will happen again.

I guess I'm just not one that believes that everyone associated with the Steelers organization is Grade A #1. No shame in that either.

OK dude, seriously. What is it about Timmons that you hate so much? All I've seen you say is that it was a mistake for the Steelers to draft him. Fine. WHY do you think that? WHY do you think the Steelers should jettison him now before he hits his prime? And before you say it, I am not one who thinks he's a beast or is going to be one, but I DO believe he will be a solid contributor, and that it is NOT unreasonable nor unusual for a 1st round pick to be starting by year 3. In fact, that's what you want in most cases.

revefsreleets
08-27-2009, 09:28 AM
Did I mention that this whack job is on my ignore list as well? My girlfriends 11 year old daughter makes more acute and focused observations about football than he does.

The ignore feature is your friend:tt02:

tony hipchest
08-27-2009, 11:22 AM
since steelers & i is so hell bent being right on this topic-

I don't know....

youre right. you dont know.

....I'm not prepared....

youre right. youre not prepared.

I don't have any real insight...

youre right. you dont have any real insight.

i dont really care what you believe. my "sources" are kevin colbert and bill cowher.

from what i "recall" kevin colbert said as much on aug. 07, 2009 at approx 1:10 pm in a sirius nfl radio 20 minute interview with tim and pat on MTC. from what i recall, i was about 15 miles outside of deming NM on my way to phoenix.

i also recall a 30 minute interview with bill cowher on MTC on the friday after james harrison was named league defensive mvp in which he elaborated even deeper. funny thing... it was a bout 3 pm, and i was on my way to pick up my daughter after work. i had to sit in my moms driveway to hear the final 5 minutes of the interview.

of course pat kirwan spends every sunday of the season in production meetings and watching all the games on the big board with bill cowher. they talk lots of ball. i tend to trust any insight that comes from those inside conversations.

see, i listen to people who actually know wtf they are talking about. not some schleps on the internet.

fact is james was cut 3 times and there was most definitely a problem standing inbetween his talent and actually making the roster. you dont have to believe it if you dont want to. it is what it is. :wave:

preacher, what you remember reading was probably from one of my posts after the cowher interview, as that is a story about james behavior that he relayed. theres a summary of the interview floating around here somewhere.

pancake
08-27-2009, 11:45 AM
I think Timmons will be fine. I think he will add somethings to the defense that Foote didn't, but he may never be the run stopper that Larry was either. It is a wait and see approach with a player that has a ton more upside than Foote ever had.

TheWarDen86
08-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Steven Conley, a 3rd round draft choice TOTAL BUST, just to name one for you.

3rd rounder = bust? I'm not so sure.

BTW - You're a bit of a smart ass I see. Well, you won't be the first know-it-all dipshit that's been put in her place around here. :coffee:

revefsreleets
08-27-2009, 02:21 PM
Of course Timmons will be fine...he's a bit undersized as an NFL ILB, and not used to throwing his body around and being a banger since he's so athletic. He put on some muscle this year, and he needs to work on run stopping technique a little, but he'll be a good one after he grows into the job.

Bear in mind, in limited action last year he still manged 65 tackles, 5 sacks, a pick, a FF, and 3 passes defended...those number show a a guy who is a PLAY MAKER...

Steel Head
08-27-2009, 02:30 PM
remember Farrior's first year with us he wasn't that good

then in his second year he was an all-pro

it takes a little while for it to 'click' because our scheme is complicated. Timmons will be fine

SteelMember
08-27-2009, 02:41 PM
it takes a little while for it to 'click' because our scheme is complicated. Timmons will be fine

What? Just because we run a 3-4 zone blitz scheme while instituting some cover 2 packages. Why would an ILB have any trouble with that?


:busted: Sarcasm Alert!

Steelers & I
08-27-2009, 10:32 PM
Did I mention that this whack job is on my ignore list as well? My 11 year old girlfriend makes more acute and focused observations about football than he does.

The ignore feature is your friend:

You got that right, I'll now be about the 200th member to place you on their ignore list.

JackHammer
08-28-2009, 12:16 AM
Timmons was handed a starting spot in the off-season by way of Foote's departure. We're yet to see if he remains the starter that he was penciled in to be.

More like, Foote's departure was due to him knowing Timmons was going to take his job.

Steelers & I
08-28-2009, 04:39 AM
More like, Foote's departure was due to him knowing Timmons was going to take his job.


Well I would certainly hope so. I mean after all, Timmons is a 1st round draft choice, we're not talking about Rudy here, we're talking about a 1st round draft choice. Hell he should have replaced Larry Foote last season.

Aussie_steeler
08-28-2009, 06:23 AM
Some people may need to go back and read some of the transcripts of Mike Tomlins post 2007 NFL draft interviews. He had very strong views on why Lawrence Timmons was brought in and what plans they had for him down the line.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07119/781991-66.stm


Now two and bit years down the track I think things are different to what Tomlin had originally mapped out for his future blueprint of the MIke Tomlin Era Pittsburgh steelers.

Coach Mike Tomlin called Timmons "an outside linebacker who is capable of playing off the line of scrimmage ... on the tight end, has pass rush capabilities." He also has "the RH factor: He is a runner and a hitter and he is a Pittsburgh Steeler."


Tomlin also said firmly "we're a 3-4 team" and "he's a right outside linebacker.


Tomlin praised Timmons' special teams play as well and said he also can play inside in a 3-4 defense if needed. If the Steelers ever move to a 4-3, they feel confident Timmons can play on the outside as well in that scheme


My assessment ( for what it is worth) on this whole TImmons cant do sh#t against the run topic.

1. He was drafted to be an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme or a 4-3 if required
2. DIck Lebeau was kept and so was his scheme. ( we werent totally sure it was going to happen)
3. James Harrison burst onto the scene.
4. Lamar Woodley's star was about to shine bright.
5. Suddenly the steelers are loaded at OLB and weaker at ILB.

After reading all of Tomlins post 2007 draft quotes Timmons was forced into Mike Tomlins least favoured option - ILB in 3-4


The ability of TImmons to make the adjustment to ILB is a testament to his pure athleticism. I agree his is not the large body banger that is needed to replace Foote immediately for run support. Foote was a hitter but poor in coverage, TImmons is the opposite. What you loose in one area you make up in another.

He will cover whatever role the organisation requires of him. Today that is ILB but I imagine down the road we will see Lawrence Timmons in a few other positions on the Steeler D. Next step will be replacing James Farrior when he retires. Low and behold if the steelers ever switch to a 4-3 then outside he will go.

I dont think he is travelling too bad for a player with only 3 years of college and NFL experience under his belt. He is travelling along a similar NFL timeline to Troy Polamalu and his 3rd season may well be his breakout. Troy too was a top 15 pick who didnt start for a couple of years.

As the draft nerd that I am, I think the next NFL draft will bring that explosive hitter at ILB that we all crave ( the reincarnation of Levon Kirkland ,if he exists)

My assessment, no intended sarcasm, just an opinion. And I think Timmons will bring some damn good Sh#t this year

Steel Head
08-28-2009, 07:03 AM
. Foote was a hitter but poor in coverage, TImmons is the opposite.

he's not exactly the opposite. that would mean he is good in coverage but not a "hitter"

I've seen Timmons hit people harder than Foote has ever hit anyone

Timmons will be fine, people worry too much

TheWarDen86
08-28-2009, 10:11 AM
More like, Foote's departure was due to him knowing Timmons was going to take his job.

EXACTLY! :applaudit:

TheWarDen86
08-28-2009, 10:12 AM
Well I would certainly hope so. I mean after all, Timmons is a 1st round draft choice, we're not talking about Rudy here, we're talking about a 1st round draft choice. Hell he should have replaced Larry Foote last season.

This post marks the beginning of your case starting to unravel.

:rofl:

revefsreleets
08-28-2009, 10:22 AM
Or him finally backpeddling on his ridiculous earlier assertions...

Steelers & I
08-30-2009, 11:26 PM
This post marks the beginning of your case starting to unravel.

:rofl:

How is my case beginning to unravel? Why, because you and some others don't agree with it? So what, I don't agree with a lot of things that are said in this forum but that doesn't mean anyone is proven to be right or wrong. With many of these debates, Bruce Arians in particular, a winner is yet to be determined, time will tell.

Just because some loud mouth, who sports an alian looking avatar, declares victory on the Arians debate, well that means nothing. Arians was fortunate enough to be kept on board for another year but if he's canned after this season then victory will be awarded to the Arians bashers.

We'll see what happens in time, I've never said that Timmons "sucks" as some know it all has quoted me as saying. I simply said that the Steelers will never receive first round draft choice type of play out him so therefore they should have cut their losses in the off-season and traded him for a first round pick "while they were still able to do so". Another season of farting around on special teams and playing spot duty will definitely decrease his value.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. To me, Timmons is nothing more than an injury prone, slow learning, "FUTURE bust" from FSU. If you want to disagree then go ahead and disagree. These forums are nothing more than a betting window at your local horse racing venue. Step up, make your bet, but realize that you've won nothing until the race is run.