PDA

View Full Version : Vikings Phil Loadholt vs Texans MNF


tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 08:11 PM
my question is how come this 2nd round rookie is able to come in and start (and spring AP for a 75 yd td run on the 1st play of the game, yet it takes our linemen 2-3 years to even sniff the starting line-up. :noidea:

wtf.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 08:20 PM
my question is how come this 2nd round rookie is able to come in and start (and spring AP for a 75 yd td run on the 1st play of the game, yet it takes our linemen 2-3 years to even sniff the starting line-up. :noidea:

wtf.

Because he's better than any of our offensive linemen.

I was really hoping we would take him in the second round.

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 08:29 PM
Because he's better than any of our offensive linemen.

I was really hoping we would take him in the second round.nope. i dont think its that simple. chargers started mcneil as a rookie and i believe he was a 4th rounder (???) who made the pro bowl on one of LT's best seasons. the year the saints made the nfcc game and were an offensive juggernaut, they did it with a rookie 4th round starter on the line.

the steelers just seem to be afraid to start a rookie at any position. hell, cowher would probably STILL be grooming big ben, had maddox stayed healthy.

im not complaining. our system is proven. just sayin though... :noidea:

MACH1
08-31-2009, 08:33 PM
Its Arians fault. Fire the bum. :wink02:

fansince'76
08-31-2009, 08:53 PM
the steelers just seem to be afraid to start a rookie at any position. hell, cowher would probably STILL be grooming big ben, had maddox stayed healthy.

That was more a Cowher thing than a Steelers thing, IMO, which Tomlin has perpetuated to this point. I believe guys like MJG, Lambert, Harris, Ham, etc. all started as rookies.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 08:59 PM
That was more a Cowher thing than a Steelers thing, IMO, which Tomlin has perpetuated to this point. I believe guys like MJG, Lambert, Harris, Ham, etc. all started as rookies.

They all did.

I agree it's a Cowher thing. But he did start Heath Miller in 2005, Miller's rookie year.

But honestly, it's not like we've needed rookies to start much in the recent past.

And the last offensive linemen to be named a starter (not step in due to injury) was Allan Faneca back in 1998.

If we would have drafted Loadholdt in the second round, I think he would be the starter.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2009, 09:00 PM
nope. i dont think its that simple. chargers started mcneil as a rookie and i believe he was a 4th rounder (???) who made the pro bowl on one of LT's best seasons. the year the saints made the nfcc game and were an offensive juggernaut, they did it with a rookie 4th round starter on the line.

the steelers just seem to be afraid to start a rookie at any position. hell, cowher would probably STILL be grooming big ben, had maddox stayed healthy.

im not complaining. our system is proven. just sayin though... :noidea:

RT is an easier position to come in and start than LT. Loadholt was a guy that I liked a lot because of his size, experience and other highschool sports background(basketball and track) showed he is an athlete for a big man.

He's gonna be a good RT, that may have the ability to play LT if he drops some lbs and improves his technique.

fansince'76
08-31-2009, 09:01 PM
But honestly, it's not like we've needed rookies to start much in the recent past.

Exactly - excellent point. In most cases, we have a quality incumbent veteran at most positions. It's HARD to crack the Steelers' starting lineup as a rookie.

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 09:18 PM
If we would have drafted Loadholdt in the second round, I think he would be the starter.i thought the same about urbick in the 3rd round. he was a top guard prospect entering the draft.

i have a feeling if loadholdt were drafted by the steelers he would be sitting behind colon for atleast a year (especially being that he would be getting his ass kicked by woodley every day in practice).

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 09:46 PM
i thought the same about urbick in the 3rd round. he was a top guard prospect entering the draft.

i have a feeling if loadholdt were drafted by the steelers he would be sitting behind colon for atleast a year (especially being that he would be getting his ass kicked by woodley every day in practice).

Haha, good point.

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 09:50 PM
holy shit. i totally forgot...

matt birk is gone ( i knew he was gone, just forgot who his replacement was) and second year center john sullivan out of notre dame is replacing him.

MasterOfPuppets
08-31-2009, 09:51 PM
the ratbirds have no problem pluggin in rookies or 2nd year guys on thier line. grubbs, yanda, gaither,and now oher ...other than thier center, thier entire line has 3 yrs or less experience....:noidea:

devilsdancefloor
08-31-2009, 10:03 PM
I think if we keep drafting OL 3rd rd thru 7th we will not have a rookie start. if they where any better they would go in earlier rounds. We seem to get the guys who need a year to grasp play & have the size to start as a rookie:noidea:

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 10:03 PM
great example MOP.

can anyone name the last high draft pick o-lineman for the titans?

chris snee supposedly got his start because he was the giants head coach's son-in-law.

again, im not complaining, but i really dont see any benefit of allowing our young linemen to rot on the bench.

hindsight is always 20-20, but we would be in better shape if we didnt give simmons an extension, allow essex to fill in like he was drafted for, and we woulda still had stapelton as backup insurance.

btw, we did throw stapelton in there last year and still won a superbowl. just a shame we had to pay simmons to do so.

(eating okolbi's dead money last year sucked too).

Psyychoward86
08-31-2009, 10:08 PM
He would never understand the complex blocking schemes Coach Z is teaching. lol Anyhow, it seems to be Colberts weakness. He is pretty good at getting us talent, but OL is a glaring weakness of his.

i was thinking that too, but wasnt Colbert around when we drafted all of those great O-lineman in the mid-late 90's?


Man he's like Ozzie Newsome i guess: An insane drafting guru, but bad at drafting in one area. That's still great though if he keeps drafting at other areas like he's been doing for us! :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 10:12 PM
I think if we keep drafting OL 3rd rd thru 7th we will not have a rookie start. if they where any better they would go in earlier rounds. We seem to get the guys who need a year to grasp play & have the size to start as a rookie:noidea:i dont think so. p. jerry and bj raji are expected to start for atl and gb. ziggy hood is expected to be a rotational player in a best case scenario.

weve got a great system that not only benefits our rookies in the long run, but is favorable to our cap management.

im just saying, we may not be doing any of our o-line talent any favors by NOT throwing them into the fire. its not that we dont do it, its that i believe we wont do it (unless injuries dictate).


i believe you throw a young guy in there, it shows confidence and has them edgy to perform. hold a young guy out for three years and they may lose there edge and start to believe they suck.

linemen love to be in trenches, not on benches. (quick, print up a t-shirt)

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 10:14 PM
the ratbirds have no problem pluggin in rookies or 2nd year guys on thier line. grubbs, yanda, gaither,and now oher ...other than thier center, thier entire line has 3 yrs or less experience....:noidea:

I really hope the address the offensive line with a first round pick in 2010.

We don't have a guy to replace Hartwig. So unless we resign hartwig or sign another free agent this season...we either draft a guy or we start Stapleton, Legursky, or Shipley.

I honestly don't think we have a long-term answer at center.

I am also not sold on our current gaurds, and I still don't like Colon.

I hope Urbik improves and can take the RT job next season. Kemoeatu can be a very good player of he can learn to keep his temper and not freaking false start.

I would love to get a stud LT and move Starks back to RT. Colon is nothing more than a backup, IMHO.

This offensive line needs a lot of work. Hopefully we start to replenish our line with first and second round draft picks instead of second day draft picks.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 10:18 PM
i dont think so. p. jerry and bj raji are expected to start for atl and gb. ziggy hood is expected to be a rotational player in a best case scenario.

weve got a great system that not only benefits our rookies in the long run, but is favorable to our cap management.

im just saying, we may not be doing any of our o-line talent any favors by NOT throwing them into the fire. its not that we dont do it, its that i believe we wont do it (unless injuries dictate).


i believe you throw a young guy in there, it shows confidence and has them edgy to perform. hold a young guy out for three years and they may lose there edge and start to believe they suck.

linemen love to be in trenches, not on benches. (quick, print up a t-shirt)

Jerry and Raji also don't have any depth in front of them to keep them on the bench. Ziggy had two two-time Super Bowl Champion defensive ends (and a two-time Super Bowl Champion nose tackle) in front of him.

I totally agree with what you said about keeping offensive linemen on the bench. We're not drafting offensive linemen good enough to start as rookies, much less their second year. We have been drafting developmental offensive linemen,

MasterOfPuppets
08-31-2009, 10:38 PM
i was thinking that too, but wasnt Colbert around when we drafted all of those great O-lineman in the mid-late 90's?


Man he's like Ozzie Newsome i guess: An insane drafting guru, but bad at drafting in one area. That's still great though if he keeps drafting at other areas like he's been doing for us! :thumbsup:
nope...colbert was hired in 2000...he has used 1... 1st rd pick on an olinemen, 1... 2nd , and 2 ...3rds ....:doh:

tony hipchest
08-31-2009, 10:40 PM
Jerry and Raji also don't have any depth in front of them to keep them on the bench. Ziggy had two two-time Super Bowl Champion defensive ends (and a two-time Super Bowl Champion nose tackle) in front of him.

I totally agree with what you said about keeping offensive linemen on the bench. We're not drafting offensive linemen good enough to start as rookies, much less their second year. We have been drafting developmental offensive linemen,
but heres my point....

most mocks had z hood going to the colts or bucs (where he woulda most likely started).

if p. jerry or even raji had fallen to us, we woulda most definitely picked them (as proven with our selection of hood).

all three woulda been back-ups on our defense.

the same can be said with our offensive linemen.

we coulda drafted j. smith, e. monroe, or cinci smith, and all three woulda got their asses kicked so bad in practice by harrison they wouldnt have a shot to sniff the starting line up with the steelers.

the same could probably be said of j. long or the browns thomas if we couldve selected them.

i taught my daughter how to swim a few weeks ago. i told her you have no business playing in a pool (and running around, balls out, and jumping in with her floaties) if you dont know how to swim.

i told her to take them off and jump in, and assured her i was there to keep her safe. you either sink or swim. if you give them the security blanket of floaties, they are bound to become afraid of drowning.

i just think the "floaties" being taken off of kemo, essex, and starks may have done them more good than harm.

colon is still holding down a spot. stapelton entered camp as the #1. :noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
08-31-2009, 10:46 PM
i dont think so. p. jerry and bj raji are expected to start for atl and gb. ziggy hood is expected to be a rotational player in a best case scenario.
i've been meaning to ask about this ... all camp long we've been fed articles and quotes from coaches praising hood. soooo (and correct me if i'm wrong) , why is it every preseason game, he has been used only against the 3rd and 4th stringers ? i at the very least would have thought he'd see a little playing time in the first half of games to better gauge his talent....:noidea:

Psyychoward86
08-31-2009, 10:47 PM
nope...colbert was hired in 2000...he has used 1... 1st rd pick on an olinemen, 1... 2nd , and 2 ...3rds ....:doh:

oh i see. Well at least he hits the gold with his 1st round picks :noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
08-31-2009, 10:52 PM
oh i see. Well at least he hits the gold with his 1st round picks :noidea:
kendal simmons was far from "gold" ....:laughing: ...actually simmons was probably his worst 1st rd pick.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-31-2009, 10:58 PM
kendal simmons was far from "gold" ....:laughing: ...actually simmons was probably his worst 1st rd pick.

Simmons was a road grader, he was a great run blocker. However as a pass blocking LT, he was adequate at best.

OneForTheToe
08-31-2009, 11:51 PM
Simmons was a road grader, he was a great run blocker. However as a pass blocking LT, he was adequate at best.

In fairness, I think Simmons would have been a very good player, and most likely still with the team, if not for his health problems. You can't predict that before the draft unless the player has a preexisting condition or a history of injuries. He never seemed to come all the way back after he was diagnosed with diabetes. It is a credit he made it back at all. I hear the praise for Cutler being able to play with diabetes, but he doesn't have to smash bodies with 350 pound linemen. Still, before Kendall got injured last season he was playing alright.

tony hipchest
09-01-2009, 12:26 AM
know what the beauty of this thread is?

i dont think brett favre was mentioned once.

*end thread* :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-01-2009, 12:43 AM
In fairness Phil Loadholt is trying to beat out ......Ryan Cook?? Kind of like how all Tony Ugoh had to do his rookie season was beat out Charlie Johnson for his spot.

Cowher had no need to try and start 6th round pick Kemoeatu, 3rd round pick Starks or 3rd round project Essex when those guys were drafted. Just like the defending super bowl champs dont need to start Kraig Urbik, but I bet he can and might start by week 8.

Preacher
09-01-2009, 01:02 AM
As I look across the O line right now, I have a VASTLY different feeling about it than I did last year.

I have watched Willie C. pretty closely in the preseason this year. I was quite shocked that what he did did NOT equal the common feelings about him (that is actually true for a number of players). I gotta admit, in the preseason, he has been the best player on the line. No mistakes once the ball has been snapped. I just wish he would knock off those pre-snap penalties.

Essex has come in pretty dang strong. I haven't had a chance to really watch him last game, and will maybe do that tonight. But he seems to be a much better pass blocker than Stapleton, who was a better pass blocker than Simmons. I don't know about the run yet. He took a bad angle or two when he pulled in that first game. Second game was better. However, I think we are upgraded over last year at this position.

Hartwig is a place-holder between the last great center and the next great center IMO. He is serviceable, and does what he is asked to do. I do think we will see Legursky in this spot next year, and I also think that after a full year starting at this spot, Leg. will be a good upgrade at center. LIke I said over the last two games, he is a ROCK. ANyone that can stone Haynesworth without help has a lot going for them. He also did well in trade blocks. I think we are solid at Center for a while now.

Kemo is a freaking beast. He is mean, ugly, and plays very well.

And then there was one. Starks, when he is on, as I have said before, is the best on the team. WHen he is off, he is worse than a third stringer. Problem is, you can't tel game to game, because he is like that play to play.

I think if we draft a Olineman next year...if we move up for anyone, it needs to be the LT first. That is the position that needs the most help.

Then, the second place is a true NT to replace Hampton and Hoke.

Third in importance, IMO, is a guy to replace Aaron smith. He is not getting any younger, and retirement may be coming in the next 3-5 years. We gotta start grooming someone there.

Matter of fact, those two positions may be even more important that LT. If we keep Hartwig, Leg. could slide to RG and let Essex move to LG. He seemed to play pretty well there a couple years ago.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-01-2009, 01:15 AM
Preacher, I think we will see that there will be only a few blue chip LT prospects and the Steelers will need to move top 15 to get
-Russell Okung
-Brian Bulaga or
-Trent Williams.

They might find Anthony Davis of Rutgers around the 25 spot. So really.....I dont see any blue chip LT's being available next year for the Steelers and they will have to live with the same Starks, Essex, Hills and maybe a 2nd round project. I still like a NT or ILB in the 1st round.

I said repeatedly last year that Colon may be the best on the line and Hartwig is the most consistent technician. Colon is most likely gone in free agency.

Next season could look like Starks, Kemo, Legursky, Urbik, Essex as starters with Hills, Foster, Shipley and BYU rookie Matt Reynolds.

SteelMember
09-01-2009, 09:04 AM
kendal simmons was far from "gold" ....:laughing: ...actually simmons was probably his worst 1st rd pick.

Do you think the Steelers pre-draft physical includes most tests because of Simmons?

Don't take this the wrong way because there are players that keep going with diagnosed diseases, diabetes in Simmons case, but I think it was very detrimental in his development...especially for a big man who works physically harder than a guy like say...Jay Cutler. :noidea:

BehindSteelCurtain
09-02-2009, 09:05 PM
Our O-Line and RBs suck dick thats why.