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Nighthawk
09-02-2009, 08:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?columnist=dilfer_trent&id=4436281
HE ELITE

Quarterbacks demonstrating total mastery of the position with no holes in their game and a Super Bowl victory to back it up. Future Hall of Famers.

1. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis

Analysis: Ultimate coach on the field … processes and executes more information at a high level than anybody who has ever played the game … never has an offense functioned around one individual more than it has Manning … unbelievable durability, second only to Brett Favre … unrivaled combination of durability and dependability.

2. Tom Brady, New England

Analysis: Best pocket instincts in the league … unwaveringly disciplined in his approach and execution (film study, weight room, how he plays, etc.) … uses tricks of trade very well to manipulate defenses (through snap counts, eye placement, pump fakes) … on par with Manning in recognizing and accounting for last-second defensive adjustments.


SUPERSTARS

Quarterbacks with no holes in their games who have demonstrated an ability to carry their teams. They are a championship ring away from joining Manning and Brady among the elite. There's no game plan these guys can't beat.

1. Drew Brees, New Orleans

Analysis: Master dissector of defenses … as good off rhythm as on rhythm … inspirational, fiery leader who demands excellence from those around him.

2. Philip Rivers, San Diego

Analysis: Demonstrative, animated, tough, outspoken, fiery and hypercompetitive … consistently makes the most difficult throws in the NFL and it's not even close … one of very few quarterbacks who could flourish in Chargers-style system favoring throws 15-25 yards downfield (as opposed to slants, checkdowns and soft-spot zone plays) … remarkable efficiency considering how many high-risk throws he must make in game.

STARS

Quarterbacks who have overcome small holes in their games to produce in a big way and enjoy big-game success. These are consistent prime-time performers, with very little separating them from Superstar status.

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh

Analysis: Best improvisational quarterback in the league … has vastly improved as rhythm and timing passer … growing in his understanding of defenses and use of hot throws … growing in the discipline of the position (handling pressure, mastering how defenses are trying to attack).

2. Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia

Analysis: Huge production for an extended period of time … offense built around him … ability to extend the play makes him very hard to defend … no such thing as a dead play with McNabb … can beat the perfect defensive call because of his experience combined with strength and athleticism … sometimes inconsistent with his accuracy.

3. Eli Manning, New York Giants

Analysis: Proven winner who has become a great big-game quarterback … cerebral player … has huge responsibilities at the line of scrimmage, allowing the Giants to be very multiple on offense, paying huge dividends in the run game (almost every run they have is some sort of box-count run or is conditional on safety alignment or defensive spacing, with Manning getting the Giants into better running plays) … still shows inconsistency as a passer.

4. Kurt Warner, Arizona

Analysis: Unbelievable production across multiple systems … anticipates his throws in the passing game better than anybody … has resurrected two teams … has struggled with ball security in the pocket, though not so much last season, and can be too aggressive at times.

5. Matt Hasselbeck, Seattle

Analysis: One of the best at manipulating the pocket … as good as anybody at controlling the middle of field in the passing game, showing very good accuracy and timing between the numbers … shows creativity … has shown he can handle as much as anyone at the line of scrimmage … durability issues could be a concern.


Am I just being a homer thinking two guys whom have never won a Superbowl Ring deserve to be categorized as "Superstars" while Big Ben with some of the most impressive stats and 2 rings is only in the "Stars" category? Personally I think he belongs in the Elite... more to the article btw if you read the whole thing

The Lakelander
09-02-2009, 08:44 PM
What an utterly worthless waste of a read.

But thanks ... :wave:

Steel Head
09-02-2009, 08:46 PM
What an utterly worthless waste of a read.

But thanks ... :wave:

+1

Big Ben should have his own category called "Winner"

The Lakelander
09-02-2009, 08:59 PM
Just more Brady fondling.



Ben could dink-dank-dunk too, like Brady does and like Cassel did. But what would be the point? ... that he could have a passer rating of 100 and a completion percentage of 65? ... who the fukc cares?

Brady would get killed in any other system than the one he plays in.

He'd get killed in Indianapolis, where the count is four instead of two.

Brady would get killed in San Diego's downfield pass offense.

He'd get absolutely killed in Pittsburgh's offense behind Pittsburgh's o-line with Pittsburgh's pass attack. He'd survive 3 games.



Brady is the most over-rated QB in the history of the game. Chase his sorry ass out of the pocket and he sucks the wad. He is the ultimate dink-dank-dunk guy who ever existed.

And WTF is this channel-dweller putting Big Ben in a class with Hasselbeck? ... are you kidding me?

fansince'76
09-02-2009, 09:09 PM
Shitty QBs Who Lucked Into a Ring By Playing On a Team With an Historically Good Defense

1. Trent Dilfer

tony hipchest
09-02-2009, 09:11 PM
+1

Big Ben should have his own category called "Winner"no... that category is reserved for trent.... AKA "qb who sucked but actually won something".

trent dilfer probably thinks he coulda quarterbacked the steelers to 9 straight championships.

personally, i dont care if ben is recognized as the #1 or #5 ranked qb in the league. anyone who doesnt see him as top 5 is a complete dipshit though.

sharkweek
09-02-2009, 09:21 PM
wow, and here I thought I actually respected some of the things Dilfer had to say...this just totally knocked him down several pegs...

KeiselPower99
09-02-2009, 09:53 PM
Trent Dilfer sucks.

Hapa
09-02-2009, 09:58 PM
I can't disagree with that... as much of a winner as Ben is, you can't deny there are holes in his game.

fansince'76
09-02-2009, 10:14 PM
I can't disagree with that... as much of a winner as Ben is, you can't deny there are holes in his game.

Tell ya what - put Peyton Manning behind our OL in Heinz Field in a game in the middle of December and watch how "flawless" his game is then.

Steelers & I
09-02-2009, 10:29 PM
Shitty QBs Who Lucked Into a Ring By Playing On a Team With an Historically Good Defense

1. Trent Dilfer


The ugliest QB who has EVER taken a snap? Answer: Trent Dilfer He looks like Ronald McDonald out of makeup.

RoethlisBURGHer
09-02-2009, 10:34 PM
Tell ya what - put Peyton Manning behind our OL in Heinz Field in a game in the middle of December and watch how "flawless" his game is then.

Yeah, that.

If Ben had the offensive line Peyton Manning has had or Brady had in his 50 TD season...then Ben would be throwing 40+ TD's a year also.

You see how Brady looked against the Giants in the Super Bowl? He would look like that every week behind the Steelers offensive line.

Manning would look worse because the Colts entire offense is predicated on timing and if your offensive line can't block you can throw timing out the window.

Steelers & I
09-02-2009, 10:35 PM
I can't disagree with that... as much of a winner as Ben is, you can't deny there are holes in his game.


That article lost my respect when it placed Philip "The F@G" Rivers ahead of Roethlisberger. I wouldn't even put Brees ahead of Ben let alone RIVERS????

Roethlisberger is at MINIMUM, top 3 in the league right now.

Steelers & I
09-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah, that.

If Ben had the offensive line Peyton Manning has had or Brady had in his 50 TD season...then Ben would be throwing 40+ TD's a year also.

You see how Brady looked against the Giants in the Super Bowl? He would look like that every week behind the Steelers offensive line.

Manning would look worse because the Colts entire offense is predicated on timing and if your offensive line can't block you can throw timing out the window.


You damn sure got that right, Peyton Manning is an absolute COWARD under pressure.

fansince'76
09-02-2009, 10:39 PM
Yeah, that.

If Ben had the offensive line Peyton Manning has had or Brady had in his 50 TD season...then Ben would be throwing 40+ TD's a year also.

Not to mention the benefit of playing every home game in Manning's temperature-controlled dome in absolutely perfect conditions.

You see how Brady looked against the Giants in the Super Bowl? He would look like that every week behind the Steelers offensive line.

And would be on the IR by week 5 every season. Same with Manning.

tony hipchest
09-02-2009, 10:43 PM
I can't disagree with that... as much of a winner as Ben is, you can't deny there are holes in his game.ben could definitely be coached up on his play action.

he is way to stiff armed when it is going to be a hand off and way more relaxed with his arm when it it going to be a pass.

fixing this tiny thing that tips off defenses could help out our offense a great deal.

we must remember that the other team studies film.

every play and drop back (run or pass) should look the same.

fansince'76
09-02-2009, 10:50 PM
ben could definitely be coached up on his play action.

he is way to stiff armed when it is going to be a hand off and way more relaxed with his arm when it it going to be a pass.

fixing this tiny thing that tips off defenses could help out our offense a great deal.

we must remember that the other team studies film.

every play and drop back (run or pass) should look the same.

Good point - Ben is a lousy salesman when it comes to play action.

xbroughneck
09-02-2009, 11:05 PM
Just more Brady fondling.



Ben could dink-dank-dunk too, like Brady does and like Cassel did. But what would be the point? ... that he could have a passer rating of 100 and a completion percentage of 65? ... who the fukc cares?

Brady would get killed in any other system than the one he plays in.

He'd get killed in Indianapolis, where the count is four instead of two.

Brady would get killed in San Diego's downfield pass offense.

He'd get absolutely killed in Pittsburgh's offense behind Pittsburgh's o-line with Pittsburgh's pass attack. He'd survive 3 games.



Brady is the most over-rated QB in the history of the game. Chase his sorry ass out of the pocket and he sucks the wad. He is the ultimate dink-dank-dunk guy who ever existed.

And WTF is this channel-dweller putting Big Ben in a class with Hasselbeck? ... are you kidding me?

While I think it can be argued that Ben deserves to be above Rivers and quite possibly Brees, I think you're being WAAAAAAAAAAY too critical of Brady. If he'd only won one Super Bowl, then yeah...but he's been super bowl mvp, won three, consistently puts up high QB ratings in the regular season and playoffs..... Brady IMHO is the best QB playing the game today.

Dilfer definitely underrated Ben though. Sounded like a little bit of hate if you ask me.

#1 Big Ben Fan
09-02-2009, 11:31 PM
I understand all the what if talk. Put this guy in this system and that kind in that system. You could do that with Joe Montana and Dan Marino. I'm sure Dan could have won 3-4 Super Bowl playing on those 49er team of the 80s. But we can't do that.

The bottom line is Big Ben is the perfect fit for the Steelers and that is all I care about. But I would like to see how Peyton Manning would look if had to play his home games in the elements and without superior offensive talent around him.

Sure Ben has had some weapons around him through his career to but not like Peyton Manning. Harrison, Wayne, Stokley,Clark, Faulk, James, Addai, is some serious offensive talent.

onefortheotherhand
09-02-2009, 11:35 PM
DISAPPOINTMENT TRENT DILFER

stb_steeler
09-03-2009, 12:05 AM
Tell ya what - put Peyton Manning behind our OL in Heinz Field in a game in the middle of December and watch how "flawless" his game is then. Shyte Manning be crying he wants out of our OL...Or been killed by now.

Steelers & I
09-03-2009, 01:07 AM
Shyte Manning be crying he wants out of our OL...Or been killed by now.



``I'm trying to be a good teammate here. Let's just say we had some problems in protection".


-Peyton Manning

solardave
09-03-2009, 03:33 AM
That's BS. All I have to say is watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5dqelV_8s

TackleMeBen
09-03-2009, 08:38 AM
``I'm trying to be a good teammate here. Let's just say we had some problems in protection".


-Peyton Manning
i dont think i have heard ben throw his oline under the bus, and there has been many times that he should have, and ran the bus back over them as bad as they sucked. :chuckle:.

i also believe i heard peyton say he doesnt like to play in an outdoor stadium, so he could not make in pittsburgh:wink02:

The_WARDen
09-03-2009, 08:50 AM
no... that category is reserved for trent.... AKA "qb who sucked but actually won something".

trent dilfer probably thinks he coulda quarterbacked the steelers to 9 straight championships.

personally, i dont care if ben is recognized as the #1 or #5 ranked qb in the league. anyone who doesnt see him as top 5 is a complete dipshit though.

According to Dilfer's list, he is #5.

BlastFurnace
09-03-2009, 09:30 AM
I don't have a problem with Brady being the top QB, but to have Manning, Brees and Rivers above Ben is an absoute joke.

Psyychoward86
09-03-2009, 09:34 AM
Why should i care what the worst QB to win a Superbowl thinks?

Ravnet
09-03-2009, 09:36 AM
Quarterbacks demonstrating total mastery of the position with no holes in their game and a Super Bowl victory to back it up. Future Hall of Famers.

Ben is the ultimate winner, and by the posted criteria he probably should be "elite," but people love to dismiss Roethlisberger because he doesn't put up gaudy statistics which, to them, means that he has "holes" in his game.

As a pure passer, Roethlisberger really is not a superstar, but where it counts, Ben is an elite quarterback.

The Lakelander
09-03-2009, 10:22 AM
Ben is the ultimate winner, and by the posted criteria he probably should be "elite," but people love to dismiss Roethlisberger because he doesn't put up gaudy statistics which, to them, means that he has "holes" in his game.

As a pure passer, Roethlisberger really is not a superstar, but where it counts, Ben is an elite quarterback.

Truth be told, Big Ben has thrown for an extremely high lifetime average YPC and YPA. (Ben is well ahead of both Manning and Brady)

Truth be told, Big Ben has a very high lifetime QB Rating (just slightly behind Brady and Manning right now).

Truth be told, there isn't a better QB playing right now to have the ball in his hands when a play breaks down ... PERIOD!




This article makes no sense and is absolutely worthless!

X-Terminator
09-03-2009, 10:27 AM
Ben is the ultimate winner, and by the posted criteria he probably should be "elite," but people love to dismiss Roethlisberger because he doesn't put up gaudy statistics which, to them, means that he has "holes" in his game.

As a pure passer, Roethlisberger really is not a superstar, but where it counts, Ben is an elite quarterback.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is coming from a fan of the team that Dilfer sucked his way into a Super Bowl ring with. I mean, how many games did the Rats go without scoring an offensive TD that season? He's damn lucky he had one of the best one-year defenses of all time to bail him out of his messes. So he really shouldn't be judging ANY QB.

Ben has one less ring than Marsha Brady and as many as both of the Mannings combined. He has won more games in his first 5 seasons than any QB in NFL history, and that includes Marsha. He's 8-2 in the postseason, a better win % than any of the QBs listed except Marsha. He has more 4th quarter comebacks than any active QB, including one on the biggest stage of them all. Ben wins games. Ben is an elite QB.

Marsha
P. Manning
Ben

End of discussion.

Suck it, Trent.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-03-2009, 10:32 AM
I honestly dont have much problem with the analysis by Dilfer. I do think that Brady and Manning should be ranked ahead of Ben at this point. Most can agree they are HOF locks, while its still early to tell for Ben.

The one that I can't buy is Rivers. He is much better than I thought coming out of college, but hasnt done anything to suggest he belongs above Ben on that list.

I do think that Brees and Ben are on a similar plane. Give Drew Brees a Steelers defense and he would have a ring by now too.

Steely McSmash
09-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Interesting read.

I think he under-rates the ability of BR to avoid sacks to make clutch plays. He's so far above and beyond every other player in that regard.

If you define this as "having less holes in your game makes you better", I agree with the ranking more or less. I'd say the quality of the content in Ben's game in terms of intangibles, competitiveness and improvisation should put him in the top3. Lack therof should put Rivers in the 5-8 range with the likes of Romo

If Manning had BR's intangibles and physical gifts to avoid the sack, he'd have 3 rings by now I think.

Rough treatment of Lefty as well if you read the whole article. Placed below Orton, Edwards, and Cassel -- yipe.

revefsreleets
09-03-2009, 12:52 PM
I always come back to this: If either Peyton or Marsha played behind the Steelers OL, their stat lines would drop off DRAMATICALLY. They both have limited mobility and a quick release is only going to buy you so much time. They'd drop off in both YPC AND see an increase in incompletions, and TD's would drop along with that.

The are both diva's when it comes to their OL's, and I'd envision a lot of yelling and screaming and general cry baby shenanigans directed towards the guys playing up front for the Steelers...

stillers4me
09-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Same argument. Different year.

Go Ben.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
09-03-2009, 03:18 PM
So it pretty much says that if Brees or Rivers wins a title, they will be with Brady and Manning. But Ben has two rings and isn't in with Brady and Manning? BS.

scsteeler
09-03-2009, 04:05 PM
And We all know that Trent Dilfer will be in the HOF with his great QB play during his playing years. Yeah Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would love to See Brady on a team other than the Patriots I think you would see an above average if not average QB. Peyton while he is not my favorite is a very good QB and I can't take that away from him.