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pepsyman1
09-10-2009, 11:57 PM
Okay, this question is for all you good X & O guys out there. Our offensive line struggled with run play execution all night, but actually showed some real strength and stamina in protecting Ben on pass plays. Although I don't think our O line is fabulous, I think there is enough ability there to do a passable job. The question is...what adjustments can we make to fix it? Do we move away from the inside rushing game we've always come to expect in Pittsburgh and start trying to run around the outside more often? Would a solid FB make a difference? Are our blocking schemes that much different then they were for 10+ years with Cowher? Teams have always tried to put 8 guys in the box against our running game to force our quarterback to win games and we still found ways to be effective running the ball. NOW that we have a quarterback that can make a team pay for that approach we can't run the ball at all. Any ideas?

MasterOfPuppets
09-11-2009, 12:02 AM
give colon a new 5 year contract and extend essex another 3 years... that should fix it...:coffee:

thesteelersreport.com
09-11-2009, 12:03 AM
two words: REDZONE REDMAN.....

StainlessStill
09-11-2009, 12:08 AM
I think it's simple and not that complicated. Since we got rid of the lead FB in Kreider, our running game has crumbled over the years.

Without the lead full back, and coming out in single back formations, the defense recognizes this and plays gap assignments, leaving more guys for the offensive line to pick up, always leaving somebody free. Matt Spaeth is by NO means a blocking Tight End in this league, and even though Heath does a great job, we need some kind of lead block regardless of formation.

Bring out a receiver, or TE and work a package with more full back play. I see what Arians is doing. He's trying to mix it up and disguise our rushing attack and putting weapons on the field as decoys. This doesn't play to our strength where we can win in the trenches. This is just my opinion and the way I observe things. Frank the Tank needs to be in that backfield and provide Willie/Mendy/Moore with insurance and guidance. It's the only answer. Power running. The tank whiffed on opportunities, but that could be fixed with consistency and patience.

SteelerEmpire
09-11-2009, 12:13 AM
REDMAN AND LOGAN..... Its just these guys time.... Does not matter if their rookies.... Not saying these guys are better, but look at what Adrian Peterson did in his rookie season.... If their serious about running the ball..... REDMAN AND LOGAN....

sharkweek
09-11-2009, 12:15 AM
THROW MORE

Teams know we like to run it so they play dishonest against it. We just lit up the Titans through the air but we didn't commit to it until we absolutely had no other choice (which is even more evidence we should do it more, because teams can't stop us even when they know we're going to pass). We need to come out throwing on first and second downs until teams start to respect our passing attack and play off of the ball. Usually you have to run on teams as a means to open up the pass, but it works both ways.

We're simply waaayyy too predictable with all this run-run-pass nonsense.

Gnutella
09-11-2009, 12:16 AM
How to improve the running game: pass more.

X-Terminator
09-11-2009, 12:17 AM
two words: REDZONE REDMAN.....

REDMAN AND LOGAN..... Its just these guys time.... Does not matter if their rookies.... Not saying these guys are better, but look at what Adrian Peterson did in his rookie season.... If their serious about running the ball..... REDMAN AND LOGAN....

OK, so who gets dropped off the 53-man roster to make room for Redman? And Logan is a WR, not a RB.

SteelerEmpire
09-11-2009, 12:17 AM
How to improve the running game: pass more.
Yea... its sad but its the truth.... it sure the hell works for Brady....

Kvnfaber
09-11-2009, 12:20 AM
REDMAN AND LOGAN..... Its just these guys time.... Does not matter if their rookies.... Not saying these guys are better, but look at what Adrian Peterson did in his rookie season.... If their serious about running the ball..... REDMAN AND LOGAN....

Did you just compare two undrafted and unproven free agents to the best current RB in football? I mean c'mon, neither of these guys would have found holes when there were none. The problem is we didn't get any push in the run game tonight. Their D-Line dominated our O-line plain and simple. We are just lucky that they gave Ben enough time at the end of the game to pull it out.

MACH1
09-11-2009, 12:28 AM
KUHHHHHNNNNNN!

mcopenhaver
09-11-2009, 12:30 AM
We're simply waaayyy too predictable with all this run-run-pass nonsense.

Here here!

There's more than one way to get the ball to the backs. I don't remember a single screen pass. I remember some very successful passes to the backs. If their linebackers wanna play the gaps then we hit our backs sprinting to the flats or the tight end on a slant. Like every kind of contest you take (i.e. exploit) what the defense gives you. They can't take away running between the tackles without giving up something else.

BKAnthem
09-11-2009, 12:30 AM
New offensive linemen and coach.....watching these dudes whiff on blocks and just get straight stood up at the line was pathetic...

sharkweek
09-11-2009, 12:33 AM
Redman won't fix any problems (even Peterson would be wasted with our OL and play calling), our RBs were getting hit immediately.

The only thing you can do in that situation is switch to more passing. The Titans (like most teams) focus on taking away our running game, incorrectly assuming that forcing Ben to pass more than 30 times (or whatever BS number it is) is a bad thing for us.

But that assessment is completely wrong, at least not when its on our terms. Any QB forced to pass in a game of catch up is going to have poor win/loss stats. Ben isn't a bad QB in a pass oriented system (that's exactly what he did in college) its just not what we've done as an organization, ever. But we could if we wanted to.

I'm not one of the guys ready to run Arians out of town, but it can be frustrating keeping patience with the guy. I don't think I could take another whole season stumbling and bumbling through every game like we did tonight before we suddenly figure out what works and 'turn it on' in the 4th Q.

MACH1
09-11-2009, 12:35 AM
http://therealbarackobama.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sky-is-falling.jpg

Pittsky
09-11-2009, 12:41 AM
do more no huddle...have redman, moore, as starting rb's...

billybob
09-11-2009, 12:44 AM
To myself, the running game has not crumbled all that badly . We simply changed offensive stratagies. Tonights game was a perfect example . Did we run the ball effectively? Did we try to do so ? More importantly , did they ? Quite frankly , the Titans were beaten very soundly without even raising a second doubt . We did not yet tip our hand as to what we may breakout , or not , The running game has no place being put in the spot light at this point . Game plan is different from week to week . Why tip your hand right off the bat to the rest of the league ? Next to come will be the o-line bashers chiming in .

Rek
09-11-2009, 12:53 AM
I'm calling it now. Steelreserve's response will be to cut Parker.

GodofGridiron
09-11-2009, 01:14 AM
We cant fix the running game. We dont have the personnel up front. We have to scheme AROUND this weakness. That involves Ben throwing a lot more. 43 passes or more per game.

NE incorporates short passes that work just as good as the run. They can stretch u out and make u cover more field. Then hit u with a draw to make u have to at least honor the run.

Genius OC's gameplan AROUND weakness......not thru them.

Preacher
09-11-2009, 01:23 AM
I'm calling it now. Steelreserve's response will be to cut Parker.

:rofl: very true. Very very true.

wyn50
09-11-2009, 01:49 AM
let tank play more fullback and see what happens. better to experiment now than later in the season. the single back formations is just not doing it with this offensive line. the line is blocking ok for passing situations but cannot run block.

xbroughneck
09-11-2009, 02:02 AM
How to improve the running game: pass more.

Arians cannot scheme effective run plays (apparently...not saying the blocking isn't at fault also..but if they can't block and they still try it...) so yes...pass more.

I hate this offense. So much for wanting BALANCE.

SteelC7
09-11-2009, 02:05 AM
to fix our inconsistent ground game, we gotta employ zone blocking which will help the o line, and then we need to alternate willie parker and mendenhall depending on the situation, we need to run parker to the outside, and rashard up the middle, play to their strengths. ben needs to try some fakes before he hands off to fool the defense, and we need to throw early to force them to play deeper so theres more room up front

Aussie_steeler
09-11-2009, 02:21 AM
Improve the run blocking up front. I am guessing that if they can sustain some blocks running lanes might open up.

Mike Tomlin hit the nail on the head in the pregame chat. " The most violent team will win" and that works on both sides of the ball

sharkweek
09-11-2009, 02:58 AM
Arians cannot scheme effective run plays (apparently...not saying the blocking isn't at fault also..but if they can't block and they still try it...) so yes...pass more.

I hate this offense. So much for wanting BALANCE.

Again, its not that anything is majorly wrong with our personnel, its the play calling. The best statistical offense in the history of the NFL was shut down in Superbowl XLII, except they had the opposite problem - they didn't run the ball enough. Of course they had been gearing the offense to be majorly pass oriented and not particularly well balanced, so it hurt them in the long run because they didn't have the tools to do it when they needed it most.

I think we have all the tools to be one of the most balanced offenses in the league, the problem is the play calling; you're not going to fool anyone with run-run-pass, and we do it what feels like 80% of the game, at least until we have 2 minutes before the half or the game is over and then we go no huddle and march it right down the field.

Although maybe Arians is some kind of evil genius, and purposefully stalls out our offense, tricking the other team into overconfident complacency and thus end up errantly sticking to a defense that can be utterly abused by our two-minute hurry-up because they find so much "success" with it early on. But that's just wishful dreaming on my part, hoping that to be true instead of the alternative.

CaliStillersFan
09-11-2009, 03:23 AM
It's too depressing to think what could possibly fix our running game. Although it's early, we'll see what happens in the coming weeks. it usually takes a couple games for the line and running game to get in sync, so maybe it will improve on it's own soon enough. I love watching Ben light it up, but I want to see more smash mouth football with a FB leading the way. I don't want to see us play Patriot football, that would be just icky.

pancake
09-11-2009, 04:02 AM
I can't believe I am saying this, but screw the run game and become a passing team. We should still run to keep teams honest, but pass the ball at least 60% of the time and let our defense help us win # 7. :noidea:

Preacher
09-11-2009, 04:11 AM
I think we have all the tools to be one of the most balanced offenses in the league, the problem is the play calling; you're not going to fool anyone with run-run-pass, and we do it what feels like 80% of the game, at least until we have 2 minutes before the half or the game is over and then we go no huddle and march it right down the field.


Nope. I have broken down only the first quarter so far... (will post it all when i am done. But what I have so far,

its Pass Run Pass out.
Pass Pass first down
Run Pass Pass Out.
Run Run Pass (sack) out.
Run Run Pass.

So, in the fourth quarter, run run pass was done 40 percent of the time... and it was done after a series of screens were established. Matter of fact, one of those runs was a fake WR screen.

mmalone
09-11-2009, 04:47 AM
Arians cannot scheme effective run plays (apparently...not saying the blocking isn't at fault also..but if they can't block and they still try it...) so yes...pass more.

I hate this offense. So much for wanting BALANCE.

My take is this: its not the execution or the play calling.........

Its the play calling called for the players on the field.

Moore obviously plays better than mendenhall and Parker.??

We get more yards, more first downs, more options during the play......
Ben plays better when Moore is on the field. More fluent.
We control the field and actually look like an offense with purpose.

So, is it not Arians giving these (Moore) plays to Moore when he is on the field and than calling a whole different game when Parker is on the field... or Mendenhall.

Moore had one run up the middle. he got 4 yards. fine...

When Moore is on the field the short plays, short passes, dump passes, are working... Then in this same senario wouldnt McDonald fit in nice for the quick short stuff... thats another story..

Soooooooooo

Is Arians just to stubborn to let Parker play in this same senario as Moore because he catches a few passes less than Moore can catch, so he scraps the whole idea of the short and quick passes when Parker is on the field. Obviously doesnt know what to call when Mendy is on the field.

Well, Summers never got the ball... so we dont know if he can smash out a yard on his own.... but why gamble with Summers for 4 plays when Parker has 13 plays for 19 yards.... i say just more stubborness...

its early but i cant stop :drink::drink::drink::drink:

The Lakelander
09-11-2009, 05:39 AM
two words: REDZONE REDMAN.....


Exactly!

Redman's lateral acceleration, his suddenness to the hole, his wide base at contact and his glide off the initial contact is what this offense needs.

Go ahead and baste me on this once again.

Redman is a big RB (230+ lbs) with thighs like tree trunks. He can break away from BIG tacklers ... d-linemen and LB's ... at the point of contact. He creates a very wide base upon initial contact and glides away from the tackler.

But where Redman is especially gifted is the way he extends the field west to east and east to west. He has phenomenol lateral acceleration.

Parker is a south to north guy .... a one trick pony. Mendenhall is the same.

Willie Parker gets tackled by blades of grass.

Mendenhall absolutely blows. Mendenhall puts more energy into 2-yard-runs than any RB I've ever seen, only to run into the backs of his blockers and tumble like a retard to the ground.

X-Terminator
09-11-2009, 05:43 AM
Again, WHO gets cut from the 53-man roster to make room for Redman?

The Lakelander
09-11-2009, 06:09 AM
Again, WHO gets cut from the 53-man roster to make room for Redman?

That decision needed to be made last week. Now it is damn near impossible.

The only hope for Redman is an injury to Parker or Mendenhall. Nobody wants our guys injured.

StainlessStill
09-11-2009, 06:14 AM
Exactly!

Redman's lateral acceleration, his suddenness to the hole, his wide base at contact and his glide off the initial contact is what this offense needs.

Go ahead and baste me on this once again.

Redman is a big RB (230+ lbs) with thighs like tree trunks. He can break away from BIG tacklers ... d-linemen and LB's ... at the point of contact. He creates a very wide base upon initial contact and glides away from the tackler.

But where Redman is especially gifted is the way he extends the field west to east and east to west. He has phenomenol lateral acceleration.

Parker is a south to north guy .... a one trick pony. Mendenhall is the same.

Willie Parker gets tackled by blades of grass.

Mendenhall absolutely blows. Mendenhall puts more energy into 2-yard-runs than any RB I've ever seen, only to run into the backs of his blockers and tumble like a retard to the ground.

Come on, you put Barry Sanders behind that line and he produce's zip. There were multiple occasions where they showed play breakdown behind the Line of Scrimmage and there was absolutely NO ROOM for the running backs to run.. NONE. Give credit to the Titans Defensive front. They have been one of the best for years now and deserve kudo's for plugging our lanes. Redman would of made NO difference in the game WHATSOEVER, or ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!

mmalone
09-11-2009, 06:21 AM
Its Arians lack of creativity. What happened to the pony backfield specultion last season. Also counted the times I saw summers on the field less than 5. Why is a fb plunge up the mid on 2nd and short or 3rd not an option. And not a single outside toss or sweep to the sideline.

Outside toss....
Parker and Mendy cant catch.... The play wont happen.

A reverse? Anything.... We have 4 running backs, figure 80 years experience between them, in business terms as runners. The 4 cant run anymore? they all suck...?? wow guys. im dying here for an answer.......

4 times in for Summers, how about getting him the ball once, build some confidence...

Oh, Arians, the confidence reducer....... i forgot...

What happen to Sweed?? Did he drop a pass in practice or something, he was punished at game time?

The Lakelander
09-11-2009, 06:22 AM
Its Arians lack of creativity. What happened to the pony backfield specultion last season. Also counted the times I saw summers on the field less than 5. Why is a fb plunge up the mid on 2nd and short or 3rd not an option. And not a single outside toss or sweep to the sideline.

Summers was pulled early because he was absolutely lost. He horribly missed a blocking assignment on the very frist drive and looked real bad doing it.

Redman is the answer here.

In a sense, Redman's ability to extend the play is very similar to Big Ben's. He buys enough time for an opening the way Ben buys enough time for an open WR. Redman is a perfect fit in this offense given the blocking techniques our o-linemen have been taught.

Parker was trained under Cowher and Dick Hoak to hit it up in there and trust that the hole would be there. But that was with different o-linemen who had totally different blocking techniques. The hole isn't there as often ... it takes time to develop. That running scheme doesn't work no more.

Redman slows down the play by stopping at the line of scrimmage and quickly explodes left or right towards the soft area of the blocking. It allows for the hole to open as he buys time feeling for it behind his blockers, and when it finally opens he hits it with authority. If he receives contact before there's a hole, he has the strength to break it.

mmalone
09-11-2009, 06:56 AM
Summers was pulled early because he was absolutely lost. He horribly missed a blocking assignment on the very frist drive and looked real bad doing it. .

if thats the case.. the whole OL should be pulled......

please hes a rookie, he needs to play.

Ben lost 42 yards running backwards holding the ball.. instead of tossing it out of bounds.

Ben threw 2 INTs.

Ben missed 6 short passes thowing to short....
Should we put Batch in???

Ward fumbled the game away almost lost it all for us.. Should he play anymore???

Please guys...
Summers missed a block in his rookie start, game one.
:noidea::noidea:

StainlessStill
09-11-2009, 07:03 AM
if thats the case.. the whole OL should be pulled......

please hes a rookie, he needs to play.

Ben lost 42 yards running backwards holding the ball.. instead of tossing it out of bounds.

Ben threw 2 INTs.

Ben missed 6 short passes thowing to short....
Should we put Batch in???

Ward fumbled the game away almost lost it all for us.. Should he play anymore???

Please guys...
Summers missed a block in his rookie start, game one.
:noidea::noidea:

You know, we showed some GREAT THINGS against a stout team! Esp on the defensive front. A year ago they showed the same poise and grit. First game of the year, against a front like that will only make us better in the long run. This allows us to sure up the mistakes and get better for next week. This wasn't a creampuff defense we were going up against, by no means. But, it will be nice to see the Steelers O-Line take control of a D-line in the power running game. We haven't done this since '05.

AGAIN, Redman wouldn't have proven ANYTHING. NOONE WAS GOING TO BREAK THROUGH LAST NIGHT. Redman couldn't crack the 53 man roster for a reason, and was going against vanilla defense's in the pre-season. Could he work his way in in the future? Sure, but not this year, and certainly not last night!

HometownGal
09-11-2009, 07:06 AM
Bring back Dan Kreider! :applaudit::thumbsup::chuckle:

Seriously, the ONLY problem I have with BA is that he doesn't incorporate a FB enough into the running game. I know a lot of teams are abandoning the FB, but with our OL woes, a FB would give our RBs a little extra push into the line.

arge5809
09-11-2009, 07:12 AM
Let Ben throw more and run the 2 minute offense as desired! Obviously when he was given the reigns, the offense ran more smoothly!!

:tt02: :applaudit:

58LBattack
09-11-2009, 07:15 AM
Its not that simple..... Our runniing game has always been based on trap blocking sized linemen, whom must have the speed to execute....as the years have gone on, the average D lineman's size has grown... increasing the O lines responsibilities... this is our run game..has been for 40 years... unless we change our run philosophy to a dive gap running attack,and then compliment that with 325Lb run blocking linemen, there won't be much change in our running game.. Some of the changes of time and development of NFL tallent, have dictated slight changes of our play calling. We match up much better against a 3/4 defense then 4'/3.. and think our game plan reflects that.... do we need a dominent full back........ some downs... to we need an outside running game, on occasion, still the premiss is winning.... think of the latter 2 SB of the 70's... where our passing game expolited the NFL... are running game was a bit tired, yet it wasn't the reason we became a pasing team...... it was talent.... I think our current approach today reflects this. There are issue's with the run game... some is personel, most experience... time heals all wounds.. the running game will get back on track, and as our schedule has us outside the NFC east this yr (really the only division that can man handle our OL) expect good things from our running game this yr.... Count on this, when match ups require, we will throw the ball, and win....

Fire Haley
09-11-2009, 07:16 AM
We don't need no stinking running game.

Shotgun, no huddle - 5 WIDE!!!

The Steelers are a finesse passing team now - Just like I predicted.

revefsreleets
09-11-2009, 08:17 AM
THROW MORE

Teams know we like to run it so they play dishonest against it. We just lit up the Titans through the air but we didn't commit to it until we absolutely had no other choice (which is even more evidence we should do it more, because teams can't stop us even when they know we're going to pass). We need to come out throwing on first and second downs until teams start to respect our passing attack and play off of the ball. Usually you have to run on teams as a means to open up the pass, but it works both ways.

We're simply waaayyy too predictable with all this run-run-pass nonsense.

I agree with this to a certain extent....I was lying in bed last night, thinking about some of the replays that i watched (and re-watched), and it was clear to me why our run game failed.

Teams still consider us a run first team, and they gameplan to stop the run first, and FORCE us to pass...that used to work, but I think we are now a passing team, and we will beat just about any defense passing now (and maybe any defense...the Titans are a GREAT defense, and Ben shredded them last night).

As teams have to shift away from 8 man fronts, that should create more opportunities for the running game to flourish...I watched running play after running play where the RB got the handoff and there was already a defender or two in the backfield. I'm sorry, Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, Jim Brown....none of those guys is going to do much when there are 6 guys trying to block 8 in front of them.

I'm not letting the RB's off the hook completely...they need to do more with what they are given, and Parker looked soft out there last night, getting tackled by a single hand, falling down, etc, etc...I'm also not giving the OL a pass either, as they need to improve their run blocking, BUT it's also fair to say that 6 guys will NEVER block 8 in any scenario...

We need to just commit to being a pass first team, and start running out of passing formations...it may not have BEEN Steelers football, but it is now...

By the way, for the most part, the pass blocking was exceptional last night...there were a couple individual break downs, but overall the pass blocking was a really pleasant surprise...

Steelers & I
09-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Bring back Dan Kreider! :applaudit::thumbsup::chuckle:

Seriously, the ONLY problem I have with BA is that he doesn't incorporate a FB enough into the running game. I know a lot of teams are abandoning the FB, but with our OL woes, a FB would give our RBs a little extra push into the line.

I agree Gal. I'll hold back with my personal feelings of Arians and just say that you're absolutely correct. The Steelers will not have much, if any, success running the ball if they don't incorporate the use of a lead blocking FB. As we saw most of last season, and again versus the Titans last night, the first defender to penetrate the offensive line is blowing up the RB either in the backfield or at the LOS.

There were many times in last nights game where a FB would have made all the difference by way of picking up that initial defender. I mean, it's not like the Titans were stuffing our RB's with 2 or 3 defenders, it was typically just one defender who found an opening in the blocking scheme. I don't know if the Summers is the answer, he may very well be, but he did miss some blocks last night. I'll give him a pass since he is after all, a rookie who played very little in the pre-season.

In conclusion I will say this, I really like some of the Steelers pass play designs but the run designs should be sent to the curbside for pick up. No lead blocking FB, the RB taking the handoff nearly 7 yards deep in the backfield, with the Steelers current group of O-linemen, those types of running plays just scream failure.

LVSteelersfan
09-11-2009, 11:14 AM
They need to use the same formations whether they pass or run. It is so obvious to anyone watching that they are running if a fullback is in the game. Do some playaction off that FB and try passing it instead of running it every time the FB is in the game. Make the defense back off of 8 in the box. But if we never pass when the FB is in the game, it is telegraphing what we are doing. Plus the FB needs to be in the game a lot more for that to work. I don't consider myself a football expert by any means, but common sense says you need to back off those 8 in the box somehow.

steelreserve
09-11-2009, 01:09 PM
I'm calling it now. Steelreserve's response will be to cut Parker.

Not quite. We just ought to relegate him to third-string duty against Minnesota, Baltimore and probably Green Bay and Chicago. Those teams have decent defenses, so he'll have games like he did last night. He'll do fine in the other games -- most teams we play this year have shitty defenses and that's where he thrives. We might as well use him where it won't hurt us, and keep the real running backs fresh for when we need them.

I really don't want to hear any more bullshit about "Well, nobody could run behind that offensive line." It's true that the run blocking wasn't very good. I actually believe Parker makes it worse. When he's getting "swarmed by 2-3 defenders", he freezes and lets them come to him behind the line, throwing in an attempted juke that fools no one. Other running backs go ahead and initiate the contact and fall forward. Mendenhall and Moore didn't gain very many yards either last night, but they did a hell of a lot better job of at least getting back to the line of scrimmage. Basically, Parker is TERRIBLE with momentum and how to use it, and we pay the price against anyone who finishes their tackles.

I also saw at least one play, probably two, where Parker turned a 15-yard run into a 3- or 4-yard run by making it to the second level of the defense and then dancing in place while the LB or DB came up to meet him. If he would've just continued forward and initiated contact, he would've met the defender around the first-down marker and had momentum.

Screw Parker. That guy sucks dick like he invented it, and now he's old too.

Hammer67
09-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Again, WHO gets cut from the 53-man roster to make room for Redman?


And, Redman hasn't done anything in a game that's mattered, either.

Sadly, pulling and plugging guys will probably not fix this issue. On a positive note...loved that some screen plays worked finally! Yay O line and receivers!

xbroughneck
09-11-2009, 01:29 PM
Not every group of O-linemen can run block well. I must admit though, that after game one our pass blocking doesn't appear to be too shabby (unlike last year).

Our run offense has been below average the past two seasons. Against good run stopping teams we just won't run the ball well (uH...wait until Minnesota comes to town...LOL). The ONLY way to fix it would be to fire Arians and change the scheme. We're not going to do that, so the only realistic option is to throw the ball more and run the no huddle more. That puts everything on Ben's shoulders along with our defense.

That's what most of you guys want anyway. Balance be damned, so we may as well run with what brought us (Arians+Ben+DEFENSE).

CPanther95
09-11-2009, 01:33 PM
It wasn't just blocking - it seemed Willie dropped to the ground at the first contact - or just before it.

steelreserve
09-11-2009, 01:39 PM
It wasn't just blocking - it seemed Willie dropped to the ground at the first contact - or just before it.

I think with Parker, it has just as much to do with what he does BEFORE the contact. He stops and dances while the defender comes to him. So right there, he gives away any speed or momentum he had working for him and becomes a sitting duck. Maybe he's overthinking things, or maybe impending contact makes him freeze up. Whichever it is, it was on full display last night.

It really is a shame, because if he fixed that one problem, he'd be a 100% better runner and I wouldn't have to bitch all the time.

Fire Haley
09-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Bench Parker and start Mewelde Moore - the only time the offense moved the ball was when he was playing.

sharkweek
09-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I agree with this to a certain extent....I was lying in bed last night, thinking about some of the replays that i watched (and re-watched), and it was clear to me why our run game failed.

Teams still consider us a run first team, and they gameplan to stop the run first, and FORCE us to pass...that used to work, but I think we are now a passing team, and we will beat just about any defense passing now (and maybe any defense...the Titans are a GREAT defense, and Ben shredded them last night).

As teams have to shift away from 8 man fronts, that should create more opportunities for the running game to flourish...I watched running play after running play where the RB got the handoff and there was already a defender or two in the backfield. I'm sorry, Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, Jim Brown....none of those guys is going to do much when there are 6 guys trying to block 8 in front of them.

I'm not letting the RB's off the hook completely...they need to do more with what they are given, and Parker looked soft out there last night, getting tackled by a single hand, falling down, etc, etc...I'm also not giving the OL a pass either, as they need to improve their run blocking, BUT it's also fair to say that 6 guys will NEVER block 8 in any scenario...

We need to just commit to being a pass first team, and start running out of passing formations...it may not have BEEN Steelers football, but it is now...

By the way, for the most part, the pass blocking was exceptional last night...there were a couple individual break downs, but overall the pass blocking was a really pleasant surprise...

The thing is, we've done against the best defense in the league, not just the Titans. Consider all those Ravens games where we look so inept on offense the first 3 quarters, but then we took the ball and marched right down the field for scores at the end of the first two games when we employ our two-minute/no-huddle (heavily pass oriented obviously) attacks.

Of course someone might argue that this success is due to teams playing too much prevent, but that doesn't account for all the run-run-pass 3 and outs we suffer far too often (or worse, a 3rd and short where we try to run). We have to try something different, and I won't be fully satisfied until we do. I'll take these nail biter wins, but all the evidence I'm seeing suggests we have the talent and the ability to put even these tougher games away far sooner than the last waning moments.

mmalone
09-11-2009, 02:12 PM
He stops and dances while the defender comes to him. So right there, he gives away any speed or momentum he had working for him and becomes a sitting duck. .

blast from the past. but back in the last year or two with Franco... No. 32

he did the same thing before the fans decided he should move on or out.

he would dance and stop and side stepped never really gained many big yards in the last days of his career here in steel town.... he took that side step up to seattle too in 84..

maybe its a sign of retirement.

KeiselPower99
09-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Bring back Dan Kreider! :applaudit::thumbsup::chuckle:

Seriously, the ONLY problem I have with BA is that he doesn't incorporate a FB enough into the running game. I know a lot of teams are abandoning the FB, but with our OL woes, a FB would give our RBs a little extra push into the line.

We do need a true FB back there. This one back formation isnt doing crap for us. Remember when we needed 3 yards on a 3rd down and we would get it on the ground? Show Arians those tapes.

mmalone
09-11-2009, 02:35 PM
Find a Game plan that works... And use it for 4 qtrs....

How can we look so bad.... then look so good. if the players are no good???

someone please answer that...

and when Moore plays why do we look like a different team... answer that. same thing happend in the Super Bowl.. 2nd half the offense scored 3 points then lost 2 for a net gain of 1 point in 28 minutes... then we woke up and won...

its the same again last night.... whats the common factor in all this??? any answers?

it cant be the players... we win super bowls and the regular games..... in nail biters but we win... so whats the deal...

Vincent
09-11-2009, 02:48 PM
We cant fix the running game. We dont have the personnel up front. We have to scheme AROUND this weakness. That involves Ben throwing a lot more. 43 passes or more per game.

NE incorporates short passes that work just as good as the run. They can stretch u out and make u cover more field. Then hit u with a draw to make u have to at least honor the run.

Genius OC's gameplan AROUND weakness......not thru them.

I will respectfully disagree. The problem is scheme.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09254/997253-66.stm

“RUNNING BACKS F

The run game was non-existent for most of the night, but it was near-pathetic in the first half when the Steelers managed just 12 yards on 10 carries. Willie Parker had 9 yards on eight carries in the first half and his longest run was 5 yards. Rashard Mendenhall carried twice for 3 yards. Thank goodness for third-down back Mewelde Moore, who had four catches for 28 yards.”

I put this back on Arians. Scheme. “Zone blocking”. We don’t have the nimble linemen to “zone block”. We have big slugs. We’ve been doing this idiot “zone blocking” for three years now. It doesn’t work with the personnel we have. We should be “hat on hat”. Period. We have decent backs. We have a useless OC, and a more useless scheme.

This team is successful for several reasons that have nothing to do with Arians, and frankly Tomlin. The LeBeau defense keeps us in most games. Ben and his receivers are the margin of difference. Neither has anything to do with Arians or Tomlin. Most of the plays Arians calls change to audibles or end in Ben improvisation. The plays that don’t fail.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09254/997255-150.stm

"We're not going to abandon anything that we believe in and we set out to do in any given week," Tomlin said of his persistence in the face of powerful evidence. "I ask our guys to play like that and I have to coach like that. As good a defensive front as Tennessee has, we've got to do a better job if we're going to show up consistently in victory lane."

This is the mindset of a coach that doesn’t recognize the problem. The problem isn’t going to get fixed until it is recognized. I don’t doubt that he believes in what the offense is attempting to do. The problem is that it doesn’t work, and we’re entering the third year of it not working. This should have been corrected in the offseason preceding 2008, and the changes should have been implemented in the 2008 preseason.

A CEO would not allow a business unit manager to fail three years in a row.

“While all this was going on, Roethlisberger played 60-plus minutes of schoolyard ball, running for his life in spots and working on his improvisational skills in others, getting just enough time to find just enough open people to keep the Steelers in the game.”

Tomlin doesn’t recognize that this is a problem. When FWP noted last year that they weren’t playing “Steeler football”, Tomlin’s response was that he walks by 5 Lombardis every day and he doesn’t see any running titles out there”. Not the right response. Further indication that he doesn’t recognize the problem. And he doesn’t seem to recognize that the solution to the problem is what landed all 5 trophies.

AllD
09-11-2009, 02:56 PM
It seems that the wheels have been run off FWP already. He has a few good games left in him against weaker teams, but his best years are behind him. When he got stopped in the backfield on a hand takle on his foot which he would have side stepped or jumped over in the past, I knew he was done.

He is also probably not Tomlin's guy either, especially since he can't pass block or catch reliably out of the backfield like Moore. I think he played without heart and that is a bad thing. He didn't even try to improvise.

steelreserve
09-11-2009, 03:02 PM
Find a Game plan that works... And use it for 4 qtrs....

How can we look so bad.... then look so good. if the players are no good???

someone please answer that...

and when Moore plays why do we look like a different team... answer that. same thing happend in the Super Bowl.. 2nd half the offense scored 3 points then lost 2 for a net gain of 1 point in 28 minutes... then we woke up and won...

its the same again last night.... whats the common factor in all this??? any answers?

it cant be the players... we win super bowls and the regular games..... in nail biters but we win... so whats the deal...

sshhhhhh -- careful. You're about to have about 10 people call you an idiot with that first remark because they "trust an NFL coaching staff more than you, thanks" ... and 10 more people jump down your throat because "we won the Super Bowl, so the front office knows what they're doing" with the second remark. Maybe you'll even get a helpful sky-is-falling cat.

maybe it's the same 10 people, I don't know. Anyway, suggesting change is bad and you must have your head up your ass, right, because how dare you?

Steel Head
09-11-2009, 03:05 PM
bring in LEGURSKY :willy:


ps - fire Arians and Zierlin

Hotrodder07
09-11-2009, 03:09 PM
I'm just going to sound like a Bruce Arians hater, but I really believe that playcalling is the problem. Until we went to the no-huddle late in the first half, we could not move the ball at all. Most of our drives consisted of run-run-pass. When we run it on the first 2 downs and barely pick up 3 yards, they defense knows that it's going to be a pass. We needed to mix it up more. I was screaming for a few more play-action passes early in the game. They were so fixated on stopping the run, I really believe that it would have worked. And If we fooled them enough with the play-action, we'd have more running room. I'm no coach by any means, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that playcalling is the problem.

That said, it's not all playcalling. We have to understand that our offensive line is not just going to make holes on a consistent basis, especially against a team with a defensive line like Tennessee has. We need to run a bit more play-action on first and second down. I also liked those quick WR screens we used at the beginning of the game, but we kind of moved away from that as the game progressed.

Anyway, just my two cents. But what do I know? We won the game, and that's all that matters.

Hines0wnz
09-11-2009, 03:24 PM
It really is a shame, because if he fixed that one problem, he'd be a 100% better runner and I wouldn't have to bitch all the time.

And you lie. :flap:

HometownGal
09-11-2009, 03:32 PM
sshhhhhh -- careful. You're about to have about 10 people call you an idiot with that first remark because they "trust an NFL coaching staff more than you, thanks" ... and 10 more people jump down your throat because "we won the Super Bowl, so the front office knows what they're doing" with the second remark. Maybe you'll even get a helpful sky-is-falling cat.

maybe it's the same 10 people, I don't know. Anyway, suggesting change is bad and you must have your head up your ass, right, because how dare you?

:rolleyes: :yawn: :rolleyes:

Not directing this post at you, but suggesting change is NOT bad in principle, but acting like you're a know-it-all and a professional NFL coach who knows more than those the FO (who has an excellent track record of hiring coaches and those coaches hiring good assistants) has hired is pompous, shows total ignorance and is just plain STUPID.

fansince'76
09-11-2009, 03:38 PM
:rolleyes: :yawn: :rolleyes:

Not directing this post at you, but suggesting change is NOT bad in principle, but acting like you're a know-it-all and a professional NFL coach who knows more than those the FO (who has an excellent track record of hiring coaches and those coaches hiring good assistants) has hired is pompous, shows total ignorance and is just plain STUPID.

Careful, or you'll be called out as a cheerleader by one or more of the "I-play-a-kick-ass-game-of-Madden-on-the-X-Box-and-have-won-my-Fantasy-Football-League-three-years-running-now-so-I-automatically-know-more-than-the-FO-and-the-coaches-and-could-guide-the-team-to-80-0-blowouts-every-week-if-only-they'd-let-me-be-OC" messageboard savant crowd. Take off those B&G-colored glasses already! We suck and we'll be lucky to finish 8-8!

HometownGal
09-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Careful, or you'll be called out as a cheerleader by one or more of the "I-play-a-kick-ass-game-of-Madden-on-the-X-Box-and-have-won-my-Fantasy-Football-League-three-years-running-now-so-I-automatically-know-more-than-the-FO-and-the-coaches-and-could-guide-the-team-to-80-0-blowouts-every-week-if-only-they'd-let-me-be-OC" messageboard savant crowd. Take off those B&G-colored glasses already! We suck and we'll be lucky to finish 8-8!



:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

Or - maybe they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :chuckle:

steelreserve
09-11-2009, 04:25 PM
I threw up across the street from a Holiday Inn Express last night, does that count?

MACH1
09-11-2009, 04:29 PM
:rolleyes: :yawn: :rolleyes:

Not directing this post at you, but suggesting change is NOT bad in principle, but acting like you're a know-it-all and a professional NFL coach who knows more than those the FO (who has an excellent track record of hiring coaches and those coaches hiring good assistants) has hired is pompous, shows total ignorance and is just plain STUPID.

But it really works Madden. Why can't they run plays like that!







:chuckle:

Vincent
09-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Further to my earlier points, this was over at the "other" board and makes the points again very well...

http://www.steelernation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=589258&postcount=1

..This has been bothering me since early last year, and I've got to get it off of my chest. The problem with the running game is not the running backs or the offensive linemen. It's the changing of the blocking schemes and the play calling. With the exception of Hartwig, the rest of the starting linemen were all Cohwer picks. He drafted guys that fit into a power blocking scheme, which of course, worked well. These guys; Starks, Keomateu, Essex, and Colon are big power guys but not very nimble on thier feet. They were all very good under Russ Grimms system. Larry Zereulin (sp?) wants to try to impose a "Zone blocking" scheme, and it's obviously not working. Why can't they see this?! Zone blocking schemes have worked good in the past with teams such as the Broncos, but because they had the type of linemen (light and quick) that fit the scheme. Further more, they had good "cut-back" runners. We do not. Fast Willie Parker is a "hit the hole and go", style of runner, who learned his craft under Bettis. We once had a player with great athletic ability and we tried to make him into a pocket passer, i.e., something that he was not. Remeber the Kordell Stewart experment? This is essentially what they're trying to do with the line and backs now. If you have a team that is in a rebuiding mode, such as the Lions, then you can put in a particular system and draft players to fit that system over a period of time. We're not rebuilding, though. IT WOULD BE BETTER TO ADJUST THE SYSTEM TO THE PERSONEL THAT WE ALREADY HAVE!!! The offensive play calling is too predictable. I watched the Titans game last night and would say to my wife what the Steelers would do before they would do it. If I can read Arians mind from a couch in Tulsa, OK, imagine how easy it must be for the opposing D coodinator, just on the other side of the field?! It only works because of the excellent play of Ben and some of the receivers. Let's face it, the defense and the play of the quarterback carried this team last year. Read that last line again. If Tomlin can't/won't recognize the problem and fix it, they are going to run this team into the ground. This could be a great (not good), great team if the coaching staff were as good as the players. Oh, one more thing; Essex has longer arms and better footwork. Wouldn't it seem more natural to put him out at right tackle and kick Colon in at guard? There's a simple fix, right there.This whole concept seems like "common sense", to me. If anyone knows Tomlins e-mail address, would you please pass this on to him before it's too late. GO STEELERS!!!!


SIXBURGH'S KNOCKIN' ON SEVENS DOOR!

GridironWarrior
09-11-2009, 04:53 PM
Fire the offensive line coach, replace all 5 linemen, change the blocking scheme and find a real fullback. It’s funny how guys like Turner and Adrian Peterson run well because of the line and fullback. Same thing with Baltimore. Tomlin messed up in this area. Our Franchise QB can’t keep getting beat like this. He needs a running game. And the D needs a running game to get rest.

HometownGal
09-11-2009, 05:04 PM
Fire the offensive line coach, replace all 5 linemen, change the blocking scheme and find a real fullback. It’s funny how guys like Turner and Adrian Peterson run well because of the line and fullback. Same thing with Baltimore. Tomlin messed up in this area. Our Franchise QB can’t keep getting beat like this. He needs a running game. And the D needs a running game to get rest.

I totally agree with bringing back the FB and as I've said, this is the only area where I don't agree with BA. Doesn't take rocket science to figure out that having a lead blocker only increases a RB's chances to gain positive yardage.

When all is said and done, though - as a Steelers fan, I can't really bitch and moan too much, as Ben and the O do just enough to get 'r done with a lot of help from the D (and last night, the exemplary play of our ST's from Logan to DSep :thumbsup:) I'm not one of these fans that believes that our D won us the Super Bowl last season. Again - the O and OL did just enough to get 'r done and played their part in securing that 6th Lombardi. :tt02:

mmalone
09-11-2009, 05:14 PM
[QUOTE=Vincent;657313]“While all this was going on, Roethlisberger played 60-plus minutes of schoolyard ball, running for his life in spots and working on his improvisational skills in others, getting just enough time to find just enough open people to keep the Steelers in the game.”QUOTE]

I call this ScrambleCat. We are the only ones that implement this technique over the WildCat.... Ben is a master at it, other teams cant duplicate it. Defenses have a hard time defending.. But last night Ben forgot to throw it away a few times and
had -42 yards in losses.. But did get the 363 yards in the air.. that was awesome...

And ScrambleCat did win the game again.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2009, 05:18 PM
Here is my idea,

-when there is a big hole off the right side, then Mendenhall should not follow Heath to the left.

- when there is a beautiful trap play called, Ben should not turn around and run into Mendenhall in the hole.

- BA should call more of his double pulling counters where he pulls both Kemo and Miller from the left, to the right to lead block. Those are great plays.

-Need a better blocking TE, like McHugh....oh wait, he is out for the year, so D. Johnson should step up.

Its 1 game and basically no McHugh, Summers hasnt learned the O enough and the Titans get paid to play too. Time, repetitions and committment to the run will help, but without a true FB leading, its gonna be ugly for a while.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2009, 05:23 PM
Hey Vincent, do you really know what a zone blocking scheme is??

Do you think if the Steelers were employing a "zone blocking scheme" that they would bring big maulers into camp like Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Starks, Kemo, Colon,???

I normally try not to criticize other posters, but you appear to have little clue of what zone blocking is or deductive reasoning.

IF zone blocking was truly what the Steelers wanted to do, they would have targeted lighter and quicker linemen. Instead they cut Stapleton and added 3 newcomers that are 325lbs plus.

Vincent
09-11-2009, 07:24 PM
Hey Vincent, do you really know what a zone blocking scheme is??

Do you think if the Steelers were employing a "zone blocking scheme" that they would bring big maulers into camp like Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Starks, Kemo, Colon,???

I normally try not to criticize other posters, but you appear to have little clue of what zone blocking is or deductive reasoning.

IF zone blocking was truly what the Steelers wanted to do, they would have targeted lighter and quicker linemen. Instead they cut Stapleton and added 3 newcomers that are 325lbs plus.

Yes Gonzo, I am familiar with “zone blocking”, who uses it, who is implementing it, and how and why it works. And no, logically you wouldn’t try to implement “zone blocking” with the personnel we have. So much for logic.

So, what do you call a bunch of lineman spazzing around in space looking for somebody to block while their franchise QB is running for his life? I call it a line that is in total disarray because their coaches tried to implement a scheme that doesn’t work with the personnel they have. It looks like they’re trying to zone block. Interestingly lots of folk refer to what the Steelers are trying to do as “zone blocking”, although, and I agree with you, effectively it isn’t zone blocking.

It should be noted that three of your referenced “maulers” and four of the current starters are from the previous administration and were well suited to their power scheme.

You may recall how “high” they were on Stapleton, the reasoning being that he was better suited to the “new scheme”. As it happened, he was marginal at dealing with the behemoths across the line. They even tried to move him to center, as absurd as thinking a sub 300 lb center could succeed in the AFC North is. Witness the Mahan adventure. Thankfully they were able to launder the miscalculations by dealing Mahan and placing Stapleton on IR.

So, now we have 1600+ plus pounds of what should be drive blockers trying to do what Gonzo? What are they trying to do? Illuminate my path with your superior reasoning. Football is so confusing for me.

Ravenssuck
09-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Fire Ariens
Cut Spaeth
Bring back Redman
Did I mention fire Ariens???

Godfather
09-11-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm not worried yet.

I'd use Mendy early to pound them, then Willie to make them run themselves ragged, then MeMo as fresh legs later in the game.

ricksteelers55
09-11-2009, 09:00 PM
Exactly!

Redman's lateral acceleration, his suddenness to the hole, his wide base at contact and his glide off the initial contact is what this offense needs.

Go ahead and baste me on this once again.

Redman is a big RB (230+ lbs) with thighs like tree trunks. He can break away from BIG tacklers ... d-linemen and LB's ... at the point of contact. He creates a very wide base upon initial contact and glides away from the tackler.

But where Redman is especially gifted is the way he extends the field west to east and east to west. He has phenomenol lateral acceleration.

Parker is a south to north guy .... a one trick pony. Mendenhall is the same.

Willie Parker gets tackled by blades of grass.

Mendenhall absolutely blows. Mendenhall puts more energy into 2-yard-runs than any RB I've ever seen, only to run into the backs of his blockers and tumble like a retard to the ground.

Honestly dude,I dont think he could be as bad as our RB's were last night

The funny thing about the OL is that they get the heat for all the problems that we have on offense.Yeah sure....easy to blame only one group right ? Ben got sacked 47 times last year...OL's fault....Willie gets tackled by blades of grass and cant get a yard....OL's fault,A 10 year old kid would do better playcalling than BA....OL's fault

Speaking of Bruce Arians,a lot of people on here are protecting him,saying we won the bowl last year so the Arians haters dont know nothing,how come if he is that good that all the big games that we won(well not all but most of em) were when Ben was in No Huddle offense(which means Ben actually was calling the plays) that's why he got that much 4th QTR comeback ?

Then how come if the OL is that bad that we are able to get some 100 yds game on the ground against some teams?

You want to improve the running game ? I say let's start by spreading the field early on.A couple of deep pass to Wallace or Holmes.Like John Madden would say A deep pass is a problem for the defense even if not completed cause now you have to worry about the deep balls.Ben can throw deep and we have some weapons I say let's spread it.

Then you use the FB(more formations with the FB).Frank has to do better than last night,if he doesnt do the job then we use David Johnson as a FB.I also would say let's use more screen pass.Also use a RB commitee.Different style will be a headache for the opponent's D.

Our RB will have to stop dancing in the backfield you go forward that's how you gain yardage(even if the defender is on you and you have no holes at least you dont risk losing 5 yds) not by going east-west.

By the way am I the only one getting annoyed by Rashard's spin on almost every runs? seems like he's losing yardage and holes are closing while he's doing that.

So that is my 2 cent,that might be the reason why im only a fan and not a coach but that's how I would try to solve the problems.

I know that our OL is not the best but im just tired of hearing all the blames against em....a bad OL wouldnt be able to get the job done like they did in the 4th QTR and OT last night

stb_steeler
09-11-2009, 09:16 PM
RIDE DA BUS


I hear he's lookin for work:tt03:

devilsdancefloor
09-11-2009, 09:19 PM
i know it is the first game, but here it goes...
move hartwig to LG bring in Legursky C and bring in Urbik at RG IT CANT get any worse than what happens now on 3rd and 1.. there i said it... back to the Arians bitching and whinning

steelwalls
09-11-2009, 09:50 PM
Here is my idea,

-when there is a big hole off the right side, then Mendenhall should not follow Heath to the left.

- when there is a beautiful trap play called, Ben should not turn around and run into Mendenhall in the hole.

- BA should call more of his double pulling counters where he pulls both Kemo and Miller from the left, to the right to lead block. Those are great plays.

-Need a better blocking TE, like McHugh....oh wait, he is out for the year, so D. Johnson should step up.

Its 1 game and basically no McHugh, Summers hasnt learned the O enough and the Titans get paid to play too. Time, repetitions and committment to the run will help, but without a true FB leading, its gonna be ugly for a while.

I totally agree here.

eafratitpm3
09-12-2009, 12:01 AM
I think one of the longest rushes we had last night was when Mendenhall ran into Ben, that's sad but true, lol. All is not lost Steeler fans, all we have to do is make it to the playoffs and the rest will take care of itself.

Preacher
09-12-2009, 12:35 AM
I think one of the longest rushes we had last night was when Mendenhall ran into Ben, that's sad but true, lol. All is not lost Steeler fans, all we have to do is make it to the playoffs and the rest will take care of itself.

Now I know you are trying to be positive and I appreciate it. There are too many negative nancy's here.... http://www.tonykurtsandy.com/Peter_Boyle.jpg

However, what really gets me about this is "all is not lost" "Just get to the playoffs and then all will taker care of itself"

People. We WON the game. Possibly the HARDEST game on our schedule. We are 1-0 right now. Our guys looked EXACTLY like last year... which, with all the bad, sure does seem better than looking like 2006 doesn't it?

Shellshock
09-12-2009, 12:47 AM
Fixes for the running game is a new line.

sharkweek
09-12-2009, 01:05 AM
Fixes for the running game is a new line.

and new play calling

Our line isn't completely terrible, they buckled down at times and gave Ben great pass protection in the 2nd half.

I'll keep preaching it though - defenses we face gear themselves to take away our ability to run. They know we love to do it as a team and they know our fans love to see it, and there's also that ridiculous notion that Ben falls apart and we lose games when Ben throws more than 30 times. That being said, you have to have the absolute best offensive line and decent RBs to impose your will on the ground - and even then it isn't guaranteed, just look at what teams like us do against the ground game every game of the season...so how do you counter this? Through the air. If teams disrespect your ability to pass by committing to stopping the run, then exploit that!

The Lakelander
09-12-2009, 01:35 AM
Question:

When Ben is in "no huddle"mode, does he draw up the routes on his palm that the WR's are running, or does he have some sort of secret language he developed with his WR's in the restroom of their favorite Pittsburgh restaurant or something for their no-huddle mode?

I want to know how Ben designs his own plays when he is in the no-huddle offense.

When did Ben write the playbook?

Because he's a damned genius. Those WR's are open all over the field.

Those of you who have removed Arians from this equation ... please explain this stuff to me.

Preacher
09-12-2009, 01:56 AM
Question:

When Ben is in "no huddle"mode, does he draw up the routes on his palm that the WR's are running, or does he have some sort of secret language he developed with his WR's in the restroom of their favorite Pittsburgh restaurant or something for their no-huddle mode?

I want to know how Ben designs his own plays when he is in the no-huddle offense.

When did Ben write the playbook?

Because he's a damned genius. Those WR's are open all over the field.

Those of you who have removed Arians from this equation ... please explain this stuff to me.

:rofl:

I await an answer to this question!!

Beautifully put!

mmalone
09-12-2009, 04:58 AM
:rofl:

I await an answer to this question!!

Beautifully put!

Tomlin said this for starters:

"He was Ben,'' Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said. "When rubber meets the road, he is at his best. In those moments, he sees (the field) with great clarity. He provided quality plays for us time and time again.''

I'm still not even sure how Roethlisberger managed to finish 33-of-43 for 363 yards passing against Tennessee.

ScrambleCat is what i call it. Ben recomposes the plays with his vision and legs..
The receivers open up to it and have time to bust the zone defense. Then its pump fake city.... Who writes this on paper? Its all Ben.

solardave
09-12-2009, 06:18 AM
I think it's simple and not that complicated. Since we got rid of the lead FB in Kreider, our running game has crumbled over the years.

Without the lead full back, and coming out in single back formations, the defense recognizes this and plays gap assignments, leaving more guys for the offensive line to pick up, always leaving somebody free. Matt Spaeth is by NO means a blocking Tight End in this league, and even though Heath does a great job, we need some kind of lead block regardless of formation.

Bring out a receiver, or TE and work a package with more full back play. I see what Arians is doing. He's trying to mix it up and disguise our rushing attack and putting weapons on the field as decoys. This doesn't play to our strength where we can win in the trenches. This is just my opinion and the way I observe things. Frank the Tank needs to be in that backfield and provide Willie/Mendy/Moore with insurance and guidance. It's the only answer. Power running. The tank whiffed on opportunities, but that could be fixed with consistency and patience.

Summers needs to develop into a Krieder still fullback.It's obvious we can't run between the tackles with Willie(watch out for that blade of grass)Parker and Mendenhall is afraid to take a hit IMHO.Take it to the outside with Miller and Summers laying some cross blocks to open up the outside run.Do this consistently and the middle will open up. You don't cure the run by passing because you don't eat up the clock that way. Also, I say try Logan at RB on a limited basis to see what he can do. And play Moore more.

HometownGal
09-12-2009, 06:22 AM
"He was Ben,'' Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said. "When rubber meets the road, he is at his best. In those moments, he sees (the field) with great clarity. He provided quality plays for us time and time again.''

So - you took that to mean that BEN designed the play? :rofl: What Tomlin meant there, imho, is that Ben EXECUTED the play well. :doh: You know that word "execution", don't you?


ScrambleCat is what i call it. Ben recomposes the plays with his vision and legs..

The receivers open up to it and have time to bust the zone defense. Then its pump fake city.... Who writes this on paper? Its all Ben.

Yeppers - it's ALL Ben. :toofunny::laughing::rofl:

SOS, DT. :rolleyes:

revefsreleets
09-12-2009, 06:30 AM
So - you took that to mean that BEN designed the play? :rofl: What Tomlin meant there, imho, is that Ben EXECUTED the play well. :doh: You know that word "execution", don't you?




Yeppers - it's ALL Ben. :toofunny::laughing::rofl:

SOS, DT. :rolleyes:

He's an Idiot. I'm sorry, but it's simply true...NO idea what the eff he's talking about, but he talks about it a lot...

I WISH we could implement IQ bans...

VTsteel
09-12-2009, 06:40 AM
we can't run the ball at all. Any ideas?

Well, the first idea that comes to mind . . . Don't play the 2nd ranked defense each week (which also happens to be the team that finished with the best regular season record last year). We got into a fist-fight w/ possibly the 2nd best team in the league and WON! I say we did what it took . . .:thumbsup:

Texasteel
09-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Tomlin said this for starters:

"He was Ben,'' Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said. "When rubber meets the road, he is at his best. In those moments, he sees (the field) with great clarity. He provided quality plays for us time and time again.''

I'm still not even sure how Roethlisberger managed to finish 33-of-43 for 363 yards passing against Tennessee.

ScrambleCat is what i call it. Ben recomposes the plays with his vision and legs..
The receivers open up to it and have time to bust the zone defense. Then its pump fake city.... Who writes this on paper? Its all Ben.


This is not the school yard. "Run to the Coke sign and cut across to the Fina station." The fact is, there are set plays, if that play brakes down the WR ar COACHED to do certain things to get open. To try an take BA out of the equation, of a successful play is just ridiculous.

I have noticed that you always try to take BA out of a successful play, but don't mind laying any play that breaks down at his feet. This alone damages you credibility.

AllD
09-12-2009, 06:49 AM
More throwing to RBs out of the backfield. Open up the short passing game as a substitution for the classic Steeler ground attack. Unfortunately for FWP, this leaves him warming the bench with more playing time for Moore. Mendy better find his hands too or he will be on the short list out of the City of Champions.

AllD
09-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Well, the first idea that comes to mind . . . Don't play the 2nd ranked defense each week (which also happens to be the team that finished with the best regular season record last year). We got into a fist-fight w/ possibly the 2nd best team in the league and WON! I say we did what it took . . .:thumbsup:


That was no "fist-fight". That was an out and out brawl in a telephone booth between two heavyweights. The better team found a way to win.

mmalone
09-12-2009, 08:17 AM
This is not the school yard. "Run to the Coke sign and cut across to the Fina station." The fact is, there are set plays, if that play brakes down the WR ar COACHED to do certain things to get open. To try an take BA out of the equation, of a successful play is just ridiculous.

I have noticed that you always try to take BA out of a successful play, but don't mind laying any play that breaks down at his feet. This alone damages you credibility.

funny, this is tomlin talking about ben, what does that have to do with me
read what tomlin says.....

i dont need credibility, im a fan that watches games.
i have stupid opinions and a lot of emotion. i dont think im a coach or a player.
just having a good time on a steelers fan board.

they dont post this stuff to the FO do they??

i hear a lot of wacky crap here myself, and a lot of back tracking.
the funniest is when you guys gang up on people and dont even read what your all fighting about.

i am just posting what tomlin said. when ben scrambles he creates in own great plays. pretty obvious when you watch the games. i cant credit BA for Bens greatness.

this offense runs because of ben and great wide receivers. sorry if you cant handle that... if i seen an actual strategy that worked, i would give BA the credit.

kinda like the Pats, if brady goes down, they plug in another QB and keep rolling. thats a well planned system. we dont have that. sorry.

HometownGal
09-12-2009, 08:38 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eVeCCfKv8is/Rzlu3XWyCqI/AAAAAAAAA50/jPUFDh3G3Qk/s320/snerd.bmp

Fire Haley
09-12-2009, 08:46 AM
Is dumbassery a new sport around here?

It's just one game.

If the Steelers running game looks bad against the Lions/Browns/Bengals then they might have to worry.

Preacher
09-12-2009, 05:22 PM
Tomlin said this for starters:

"He was Ben,'' Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said. "When rubber meets the road, he is at his best. In those moments, he sees (the field) with great clarity. He provided quality plays for us time and time again.''


Hmmm... From this... you got this?

funny, this is tomlin talking about ben, what does that have to do with me
read what tomlin says.....

i dont need credibility, im a fan that watches games.
i have stupid opinions and a lot of emotion. i dont think im a coach or a player.
just having a good time on a steelers fan board.

they dont post this stuff to the FO do they??

i hear a lot of wacky crap here myself, and a lot of back tracking.
the funniest is when you guys gang up on people and dont even read what your all fighting about.

i am just posting what tomlin said. when ben scrambles he creates in own great plays. pretty obvious when you watch the games. i cant credit BA for Bens greatness.

Sorry, one does not logically follow the other. What he is saying, is that Ben is Ben. In other words, Ben is able to get himself out of positions where he would be sacked and thus extend the play.

Now when Ben does that, and then is able to look downfield, he has a great knack for seeing his receivers.

Nowhere in that is Ben "making it up" when it comes to the play itself. WHen that happens. The X guy is told to go in one direction, the Slot guy is taught to go in a different direction. The other receiver is taught to go in even a different direction.

Usually, one guy goes deep, one guy works his way back to the QB. the other try to uncover for a pass.

Those are all things that are planned out. Worked on, and planned out again. That is ALL BRUCE ARIANS. The receivers do a great job EXECUTING Bruce Arians broken play-plans for when the original plan gets broken.


this offense runs because of ben and great wide receivers. sorry if you cant handle that... if i seen an actual strategy that worked, i would give BA the credit.


See the above statement then, and start giving him credit. He deserves HEAPS of credit for the passing offense (running offense, not so much).

kinda like the Pats, if brady goes down, they plug in another QB and keep rolling. thats a well planned system. we dont have that. sorry.

Oh I don't know. How did we do when he went out last year in the Washington Game? BTW... a system is only has good as your worst player. SO if our line struggles, the system struggles.

Texasteel
09-12-2009, 06:22 PM
funny, this is tomlin talking about ben, what does that have to do with me
read what tomlin says.....

i dont need credibility, im a fan that watches games.
i have stupid opinions and a lot of emotion. i dont think im a coach or a player.
just having a good time on a steelers fan board.

they dont post this stuff to the FO do they??

i hear a lot of wacky crap here myself, and a lot of back tracking.
the funniest is when you guys gang up on people and dont even read what your all fighting about.

i am just posting what tomlin said. when ben scrambles he creates in own great plays. pretty obvious when you watch the games. i cant credit BA for Bens greatness.

this offense runs because of ben and great wide receivers. sorry if you cant handle that... if i seen an actual strategy that worked, i would give BA the credit.

kinda like the Pats, if brady goes down, they plug in another QB and keep rolling. thats a well planned system. we dont have that. sorry.

Read your posts? Yes I do, and I have never seen your do anything but butcher BA.
I also read you quote form Tomlin and not where did I read that he thought BA had nothing to do with the success of the offense. You must have read that some place else. Please post this article.

I find it strange that you cry foul, because you posted something that a majority of the people posting disagrees with. Just because very few people think you know what you are talking about does not mean you are ganged up on.

No sir, you don't need credibility to say what ever you like. You do to be taken seriously.

ricksteelers55
09-12-2009, 08:24 PM
Is dumbassery a new sport around here?

It's just one game.

If the Steelers running game looks bad against the Lions/Browns/Bengals then they might have to worry.

thing is if you want to be the best you dont compare your team to the worst teams.

it might be only one game but i think that if we want excellence is because we know the potential that we have in this team.

SteelerFanInStl
09-12-2009, 08:59 PM
There's two things that I'd like to see in future games: more RB screen plays and more touches overall by Mendenhall. With Parker in the final year of his contract, the Steelers need to see if Rashard has what it takes to be the #1 RB.

Hapa
09-12-2009, 09:29 PM
It's got nothing to do with what running back we have... finding a good running is not hard, and we have good runningbacks. It's the o-line! And also, I doubt there's anything any of us would know that the coaches don't...

steelerchad
09-12-2009, 09:39 PM
I agree with the pass more theme. Hit em for 3, 10 yard gains and they'll be on their heels a little, then you can bust one up the gut for 5 or 6.
Also, as much penetration as our line allows, how about a draw or 2 per game. Maybe a shovel pass. These plays also slow a D down and keep them out of your backfield all game.

I wan't to support our line, but they are not a 3 yards and a cloud of dust line. Most of the running plays we ran against the Titans were right at the teeth of that D and they had pretty sharp teeth.

Shellshock
09-12-2009, 11:32 PM
There is no need for a running game in the NFL. The NFL wants teams to pass,pass and pass. Ben has a giant ego. Do you think he trusts Parker to win the game? Ben is a control freak. Most QBs are.