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View Full Version : Does Ben hold onto the ball too long because he can't read defenses?


GridironWarrior
09-12-2009, 09:36 PM
He seems to miss some easy chances or reads a lot. I love the guy as a player but sometimes I wonder how hard he hits the film room. I'd like him to play a very long time but at the rate he's going he'll be done in 3 years for the pounding he takes.

X-Terminator
09-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Ben holds on to the ball too long at times because he has a gunslinger's mentality. He wants and likes to make big plays. The stuff about him not being able to read defenses is BS - he can read them just fine.

stillers4me
09-12-2009, 09:44 PM
This is a joke, right?

PisnNapalm
09-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Does Ben hold onto the ball too long because he can't read defenses?

No.

BlastFurnace
09-12-2009, 09:45 PM
He seems to miss some easy chances or reads a lot. I love the guy as a player but sometimes I wonder how hard he hits the film room. I'd like him to play a very long time but at the rate he's going he'll be done in 3 years for the pounding he takes.

No. He's just looking to make a play.

If he didn't study defenses, it would show in his play.

In today's NFL, any players career could be over in 3 years. It just takes one hit.

Hammer Of The GODS
09-12-2009, 09:46 PM
Ben doesn't pump fake for nothing. He uses it to manipulate the D. You don't do that if you can't "read" the defense.




.

Da Steeler Soprano
09-12-2009, 10:07 PM
Sickening. All Ben does is WIN, mainly due to the fact that he does hold the ball longer then usual, and all people do is bitch about it.

stillers4me
09-12-2009, 10:10 PM
If Ben was worried about getting hit, he'd dump the ball more often. If he's not worried , I'm not worried. Did you watch Collins? All we had to do was look at him and he dumped it.

Ben's wears his big boy pads. He obviously isn't worried.

sharkweek
09-12-2009, 10:45 PM
all the best QBs miss reads some times

Nadroj 20
09-12-2009, 10:52 PM
This is stupid

Shellshock
09-12-2009, 11:01 PM
He can read defences fine, but he has no clue on reading profanityfilterprofanityfilterprofanityfilterprofa nityfilterprofanityfilter.

Gnutella
09-12-2009, 11:32 PM
This is stupid

Yet it's becoming a more and more acceptable opinion to many NFL fans, at least from what I've observed.

SteelC7
09-12-2009, 11:35 PM
he reads defenses just fine, he holds on to the ball because he wants to get a huge play and when he holds on and scrambles, hes waiting for someone to break free downfield

Gnutella
09-12-2009, 11:48 PM
Didn't he read and then reread the defense at one point Thursday night?

steeltheone
09-13-2009, 12:06 AM
Vick, Stewart, V. Young Can't read defenses...BBR IS NOT PART OF THAT GROUP!

Preacher
09-13-2009, 12:12 AM
This is stupid

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

Not much more can nor should be said than that.

Steeldude
09-13-2009, 12:54 AM
This is stupid

i don't find it stupid. gridiron makes a pretty good point. i don't see BR as a cerebral QB. i see him more as a playground-type/gunslinger QB. this doesn't mean he is totally inept at reading defenses, nor does it mean he needs to run around to make plays. i think over the past few seasons it is noticeable that BR doesn't do check-downs that great, but he's a lot better at it than when he started his NFL career. bradshaw wasn't the greatest either, but the steelers did win with him 4 times. sometimes a QB's way of playing is good for one team, but may be very bad for another team.

BR's ability to read defenses on a scale of 1 to 10(1=kordell; 5=average; 10=godlike), i give him a 5. i can understand people saying he is a 7, but a 10 wouldn't be accurate at all, IMO.

Preacher
09-13-2009, 01:23 AM
i don't find it stupid. gridiron makes a pretty good point. i don't see BR as a cerebral QB. i see him more as a playground-type/gunslinger QB. this doesn't mean he is totally inept at reading defenses, nor does it mean he needs to run around to make plays. i think over the past few seasons it is noticeable that BR doesn't do check-downs that great, but he's a lot better at it than when he started his NFL career. bradshaw wasn't the greatest either, but the steelers did win with him 4 times. sometimes a QB's way of playing is good for one team, but may be very bad for another team.

BR's ability to read defenses on a scale of 1 to 10(1=kordell; 5=average; 10=godlike), i give him a 5. i can understand people saying he is a 7, but a 10 wouldn't be accurate at all, IMO.

I think you are confusing can with do. Just because Ben doesn't make a lot of use of his checkdowns doesn't meant he can't. It means he chooses not to. You can tell that because when the game is on the line and he can't gamble as much, he starts using his checkdowns more. It is a cerebral decision to check down or not.

On his ability to read defenses.... I think you may be right... when it comes to pre-snap defenses. But that may also be decisions to run the play to set up other plays later in the game. Those things we will never know unless we are inside the organization.

However, after the bal is snapped, I think he has developed a great ability to read the defense... well, let's say pass coverage. I think he still struggles to read a blitz.

So, with all that said, Maybe a 7-8.. I'll give him the 8, because I think he is a bit better at the checkdown than you do... would you agree to 8 Steeldude?

MACH1
09-13-2009, 01:49 AM
He seems to miss some easy chances or reads a lot. I love the guy as a player but sometimes I wonder how hard he hits the film room. I'd like him to play a very long time but at the rate he's going he'll be done in 3 years for the pounding he takes.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/bcrab/dogbert.gif

sherlock
09-13-2009, 02:01 AM
Sorry about this but what exactly is a check-down?

Kal
09-13-2009, 02:29 AM
At times Ben does hold onto the ball a bit too long. Not in a bad way, but Ben is a unique QB who can break through pressure and extend plays but from our stats he didn't have any more sack responsibility than most QBs.

One thing Ben doesn't do is give up on plays, and that may be a bad thing. I think it was weirdly Jake Plummer that said it, but sometimes the best play you can make on a third down is to throw the ball away and not make the throw that you wouldn't make if it wasn't a third down because there's a huge element of risk to it. Ben doesn't throw the ball away enough, last year he had 9 throwaways which is a third of someone like Philip Rivers. It's an important part of why he takes more pressure than he should and throws more INTs than someone of his talent is.

But as a trade off it works. Hurts his stats at bit but what Ben has that makes him a special QB is his ability to make a play when he shouldn't.

It doesn't have anything to do with his ability to read a defence. He's no Peyton Manning but who is? Watch the Titans game and they gave a number of different looks and Ben steps around the pocket making his reads and finds the open man on countless occasions

Steeldude
09-13-2009, 02:34 AM
would you agree to 8 Steeldude?

sure :smile: better yet, i'll let you have an 8.5 :drink:

btw, good points

steelreserve
09-13-2009, 02:49 AM
Sorry about this but what exactly is a check-down?

That's what they call it when the plan is to throw the ball to a certain receiver, but something goes wrong, so the QB improvises and throws to a different receiver who isn't really the main guy in the play.

Like if we ran a play where we were supposed to throw downfield for Ward, but he can't get open, so Ben scrambles and throws a short pass to Miller instead.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_h3pcJXrMakw/SH0CUdaOBRI/AAAAAAAAAZM/Kvld3xUeuJc/s320/The+More+You+Know.jpg

steelreserve
09-13-2009, 02:53 AM
Also, this thread is pretty stupid. Ben holds on to the ball and improvises because that's what he's good at. Michael Vick is good at scrambling. Tom Brady is good at throwing 5-yard cheapshots that wouldn't count if you were playing touch football on the playground with "two completions" for a first down. You stick with your strengths.

sherlock
09-13-2009, 03:09 AM
steelreserve[/B];658313]That's what they call it when the plan is to throw the ball to a certain receiver, but something goes wrong, so the QB improvises and throws to a different receiver who isn't really the main guy in the play.

Like if we ran a play where we were supposed to throw downfield for Ward, but he can't get open, so Ben scrambles and throws a short pass to Miller instead.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_h3pcJXrMakw/SH0CUdaOBRI/AAAAAAAAAZM/Kvld3xUeuJc/s320/The+More+You+Know.jpg

Thanks for that steelreserve......Something else I didn`t know......

AllD
09-13-2009, 08:15 AM
He can read defenses as well as any of the best QBs. What he can't read are crazy chicks who are after his money.

steel striker
09-13-2009, 08:23 AM
Ben is a different qb and, sure at times he holds the ball too long which leads to sacks. Although I did not hear anyone complaining last year when he held the ball to long and those plays turned into td's. I think Ben will get better read defenses and, he does a good job. There are times he needs to check it dowm more and take what the defense gives him. Ben seems to always look for the big play which is a double edge sword as we all know. People can say what they want about Ben but, he is one heck of a qb. After what I have seen from him in five years he is simply amazing big time play maker.

Kal
09-13-2009, 08:25 AM
He can read defenses as well as any of the best QBs. What he can't read are crazy chicks who are after his money.

Without wishing to criticise him I don't think this is true. He reads defences well, but if you're one of the best QBs in the league at reading defences you don't take more than 40 sacks in a season.

Peyton Manning plays behind a much weaker offensive line and he's up there in a class of his own when it comes to reading and reacting to defences to avoid taking sacks. The same can be said to a degree of both Jay Cutler, Tom Brady and Drew Brees as well as Matt Ryan who displayed this last year.

Ben is more than adequate at reading defences, but it's not his greatest strength and not something that he is on par with some quarterbacks (whereas they don't have the mobility and power to shrug off defenders that he does)

steelpride12
09-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Ben does hold on to the ball to long only because it's just what he does instead of throwing it away. Im sure a QB who has won two super bowls and is only 27 still cannot read a defense.

markymarc
09-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Ben has the most wins for any QB in his first 5 years in the NFL. I think that stat alone says Ben knows how to read a defense.

Gnutella
09-14-2009, 12:16 AM
Maybe Ben holds onto the ball too long because he doesn't want to force passes?

Also, it's possible to read a defense and simply not like any of what you see. That's when the question arises for a QB: throw the ball away, or hang on and hope somebody breaks free?

As for the pump fakes, I think he's trying to manipulate defenses with them, which has to require some form of reading comprehension, so to speak.

HAWK
09-14-2009, 03:35 PM
If he can't, then he's the luckiest mofo ever to at the QB position.

Indo
09-14-2009, 03:59 PM
Thanks for that steelreserve......Something else I didn`t know......


Sometimes you will hear the TV announcers talking about the QB "going thru his progressions"---it's essentially the same as looking at the "check-down" receiver.

The QB, on any given passing play, has his Primary receiver. If that guy is covered, he goes to is secondary receiver, then the tertiary. He"progresses thru the available receivers to find the one that is open. There is often an "outlet" or "safety-valve" as well...typically a back or Tight end who "sneaks"out if everyone else is covered. You saw Heath Miller doing that a lot against the Titans (and you'll see him doing it a whole lot more throughout the season----he is,IMO, the most underrated TE in the league)

As usual, this is all simplified---but I'm sure you get the idea

revefsreleets
09-14-2009, 04:34 PM
We come back to the fact that BA's offense is predicated upon complicated crossing routes designed to trick the DB's. The play already takes an extra second to develop because of that.

So your choices are, to A) Have a fearless QB stand in and let the play develop while he searches for open WR's or B) Throw the risky ball and accept the pick.

Is Ben's TD/INT ratio on par with Mike Vick's or Kordell's or Vince Young's? (Knowing already before asking)?