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Leftoverhard
09-19-2009, 03:12 PM
The political and social debates on this board have a tendency to get pretty heated;
there are a lot of opinions here. I see that as a good thing, that no matter how different those opinions are, at least we have them and some of us are willing to listen and maybe even learn something new in the process.
I for one have learned a lot here and while I haven't neccesarily changed my mind on issues, I'm willing to admit that I've been more inclined to look at things from another point of view instead of writing those opinions off as meaningless.
I wonder how these discussions have affected everyone else?

The poll is set to anonymous (I hope I did that right)

X-Terminator
09-19-2009, 03:23 PM
I've learned that, once you get past all of the political rhetoric, that most of us really have a lot of similar views. It's just that we're so used to pidgeonholing others because of the views we DON'T agree on is where the discussions get heated. I admit, I've been guilty of this. For example, there are Republicans here who are pro-choice, while I may be the only pro-life Democrat here. I believe Tony Hipchest is a gun collector, and of course the prevailing sentiment is that Democrats are anti-gun. We even all agree that health care needs reform...we just may disagree on how it gets done. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. So I guess option 2 fits best for me, that there are good points on both sides, even if it doesn't influence my overall opinion.

HometownGal
09-19-2009, 08:51 PM
I was between Option #'s 2 and 3 but in the end, went with Door #3.

XT nailed it - we may all have different opinions on varying issues and lean in the direction of our party lines most times, but in principle, we really aren't all that far apart. I think that while most of us agree that changes need to be made in certain areas, it the HOW's that we most frequently disagree on. :drink:

tony hipchest
09-19-2009, 09:21 PM
i agree with X-T and pretty much fall between 2-3.

i love guns, love the military, am about as hawkish as it gets, totally convinced in my faith in Jesus, have no problems with the 10 commandments in courts, or Chrismas trees on govt property, have no problem with the bible as literature being taught in public schools, totally support the death penalty, am a gainst a gay civil legally binding agreement being called a marriage, and completely hate unions and think they are shiesty bastards.

i voted for Bush once, rep. gov of NM gary johnson twice, gave mccain serious consideration, and just yesterday went to see ret. sen pete dominici in a small ceramony to dedicate and name the new, grandiose base gym after him. of course it was to pay respect as he was more than just a fine republican, but he was an even better man committed to public service and his state, who got my vote every election for many years.

i also vote republican for most of the local elections. of course i know, and have many friends and family in the county court house, along with police officers, school board members, etc. who happen to be republican and are fine at their job.

judges, DA, assesor, state representatives, county clerks and the like.

however, i have no problem being pigeonholed as a socialist/communist liberal based on 1 single vote i have cast in my life back in nov. 08. i chuckle at the ignorance of those who need to do so with anyone who doesnt fall in lock step with what they believe.

infact, wearing the "black hat" is kinda fun.

i'll listen to whatever anyone has to say (even have heard charlie manson make a few valid points) but my bullshit filter is pretty thick.

oh, i voted #3 (which doesnt mean option #1 doesnt apply to me).

as for #2, i have been more likely to see good points on both sides, long before this forum. the fact that good points have to be divided amongst sides, is what is disturbing.

43Hitman
09-19-2009, 09:54 PM
I've learned that, once you get past all of the political rhetoric, that most of us really have a lot of similar views. It's just that we're so used to pidgeonholing others because of the views we DON'T agree on is where the discussions get heated. I admit, I've been guilty of this. For example, there are Republicans here who are pro-choice, while I may be the only pro-life Democrat here. I believe Tony Hipchest is a gun collector, and of course the prevailing sentiment is that Democrats are anti-gun. We even all agree that health care needs reform...we just may disagree on how it gets done. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. So I guess option 2 fits best for me, that there are good points on both sides, even if it doesn't influence my overall opinion.

Good post, I voted the same way.

Vincent
09-20-2009, 08:51 AM
The political and social debates on this board have a tendency to get pretty heated; there are a lot of opinions here. I see that as a good thing, that no matter how different those opinions are, at least we have them and some of us are willing to listen and maybe even learn something new in the process.

IMHO, this forum is rather tame. No name calling, no vitriol, no cliques, no gangs, no threats. Relatively little difference of opinion. Out and out civility.

Anybody ever spend any time at Steeler nation in the Politics and Religion forum? Yikes! Hate, hostility, name calling, insults, anything goes. It's calmed a bit over the last year, but it used to be brutal. Bare knuckle combat.

SFers are to be congratulated. even the ones I disagree with (and you people know you're wrong :chuckle:). :drink:

xfl2001fan
09-20-2009, 08:56 AM
I don't like any of those options at all. They are too all encompassing with little wiggle room for the middle ground that most of us have.

I can't speak for everyone, though I am guessing how I feel is about the same as a large number of others.

Before I make a decision, I try and get as much information as possible. I don't want to sound arrogant and say I'm always right (#4). #3 is almost as arrogant to say I'm pretty sure I know how I feel on the issues...I can't know how I feel til I get more information.

Without trying to sound arrogant, #2 has almost always applied to me...because I'm always trying to see things from the other side...even if I disagree with them wholeheartedly.

#1 doesn't typically apply, because if I've made up my mind, then it's because I've gotten enough information. (Like my stance on abortion or my being a fan of the Browns. I've made up my mind on where I stand...and nothing anyone says will change it.)

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-20-2009, 09:45 AM
I once thought I was wrong on an issue...but have since change my mind.:noidea:

Leftoverhard
09-20-2009, 07:09 PM
It's nice to hear some feedback - I'm sorry xfl, couldn't fit your option in, too long, especially the Browns part - you know, cause I would've had to add a nice long burn too.

Preacher
09-20-2009, 08:59 PM
I guess I too am between 2 and 3, though probably more towards 3.

it isn't because I think I am right and everyone else is wrong, or that I think the best.

its just that based on some foundational elements of who I am, I then try to project out how it then determines what I think about specific issues.

reading other people's thoughts help me to sharpen and shape my positions.

So no, it'll probably never change my position... but it will definitely shade how I feel about it, if that makes sense?

revefsreleets
09-21-2009, 08:09 AM
Between 1 and 2...I know for sure I've changed my mind on at least ONE issue because of things I learned here (I did not know there was a fault discovered under Yucca Mtn, which changed my whole position), and I know I've been influenced by some of the more astute posters on several occasions...part of forming strong and well-formed (and INFORMED) opinions is continuing to realize that you don't know everything, that there is always more to learn...

Preacher
09-21-2009, 05:26 PM
I guess I too am between 2 and 3, though probably more towards 3.

it isn't because I think I am right and everyone else is wrong, or that I think the best.

its just that based on some foundational elements of who I am, I then try to project out how it then determines what I think about specific issues.

reading other people's thoughts help me to sharpen and shape my positions.

So no, it'll probably never change my position... but it will definitely shade how I feel about it, if that makes sense?

Between 1 and 2...I know for sure I've changed my mind on at least ONE issue because of things I learned here (I did not know there was a fault discovered under Yucca Mtn, which changed my whole position), and I know I've been influenced by some of the more astute posters on several occasions...part of forming strong and well-formed (and INFORMED) opinions is continuing to realize that you don't know everything, that there is always more to learn...

Oh. OK. On issues that are based on outside facts, like the Yucca Mtn. I have to agree with Rev here.

I was referring more to deeply and closely held beliefs like the role of govt. Gotta admit Revs... your right. That issue of the mtn. sure does change things.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 08:54 AM
Absolutely...WITHOUT the fact that a fault was discovered recently, it looks like a whole bunch of politicians waffled by funding it to the tune of billions than pulling the plug. That one little fact changes everything...

That debate should be the gold standard of message board debate: During the course of the discussion someone unearthed the one critical fact, the "key log" that loosened the logjam.

Won't happen often, but it's nice when it does...

43Hitman
09-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Absolutely...WITHOUT the fact that a fault was discovered recently, it looks like a whole bunch of politicians waffled by funding it to the tune of billions than pulling the plug. That one little fact changes everything...

That debate should be the gold standard of message board debate: During the course of the discussion someone unearthed the one critical fact, the "key log" that loosened the logjam.

Won't happen often, but it's nice when it does...

I missed that discussion..happen to have a link handy?

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 09:43 AM
Nope...it was awhile back, too....

tony hipchest
09-22-2009, 08:28 PM
I missed that discussion..happen to have a link handy?

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=34957&highlight=yucca+mountain

anyways, the nuclear waste issue has had its day in the sun and can go back to being a back burner topic for future administrations to deal with, once it really becomes an issue.

no matter what the solution, the other side of the aisle will most likely be up in arms about it (as we have seen).