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View Full Version : So far, Gay looks like a liability


BlastFurnace
09-21-2009, 06:36 PM
They picked on him quite a bit yesterday. I forget who that rookie was with the Bears, but he abused Gay.

I'm worried about next week with his primary coverage being against either Lavernius Coles or Chris Henry.

Steelersfan4life0655
09-21-2009, 06:51 PM
i was thinking the same thing while watching the game. I know it's early, but he just seems off abit with the recievers.

zsheik22
09-21-2009, 06:52 PM
They really abused carter the worst. Seemed like every pass was in the middle of the field and carter was behind the receiver or TE.

steelreserve
09-21-2009, 06:54 PM
I was not that impressed with Gay, I have to admit. Guys were getting open underneath against him all day. At least he didn't give up anything down the field, and believe me, I've seen plenty of that in the past.

Meh. He'll be OK.

Fire Haley
09-21-2009, 08:42 PM
You have game tape to watch the whole field on every play? Unless you were at the game you can't even see the whole secondary coverage to be able to talk about individual DB's.

Pick another scapegoat

BlastFurnace
09-21-2009, 08:49 PM
You have game tape to watch the whole field on every play? Unless you were at the game you can't even see the whole secondary coverage to be able to talk about individual DB's.

Pick another scapegoat

As I don't blame any single player for a loss. I didn't blame Gay for the loss, but you couldn't help but notice that rookie from Abilene-Christian running Gay ragged all day. This week, he will have a better receiver to cover.

TheWarDen86
09-21-2009, 08:55 PM
As I don't blame any single player for a loss. I didn't blame Gay for the loss, but you couldn't help but notice that rookie from Abilene-Christian running Gay ragged all day. This week, he will have a better receiver to cover.

He did a nice job last year and the Titans only scored once. Pretty sure they have better WR's than both Chi and Cin. I'm not worried about him. We just need to make sure we get to the QB a little more often.

steelpride12
09-21-2009, 08:58 PM
That rookies name was Knox and he is scary good. They kid has speed and great hands, and I know he will make a name for himself in the NFL. He tore apart Gay and Carter, but Gay will bounce back.

MattsMe
09-21-2009, 09:03 PM
I love William Gay. In a totally non-gay way, of course. :chuckle:

TheWarDen86
09-21-2009, 09:20 PM
I love William Gay. In a totally non-gay way, of course. :chuckle:

:laughing:

My step-son is 8 y/o and asked me during the pre-season "why it says that on the back of his jersey."

Me: "Because that's his name."

Him: "(pause)......Why?" :doh:


Last year it was "Why" about Dick Winters of the Band of Brothers. This year it's William Gay. Ugh!

jjpro11
09-21-2009, 09:37 PM
i thought it was more scheme than Gay.. they ran a lot of short stuff and we always seemed to be a step behind. i don't remember a play where he was clearly beat or anything.

JackHammer
09-22-2009, 12:36 AM
i thought it was more scheme than Gay.. they ran a lot of short stuff and we always seemed to be a step behind. i don't remember a play where he was clearly beat or anything.

Agreed. It had a lot to do with scheme. I haven't watched a replay yet, so I can't say he didn't get beat at all or make any mistakes. But it was pretty apparent that we were giving up the short stuff all day. I think we game planned like a team that was afraid to get beat deep with Polamalu on the bench.

Steeldude
09-22-2009, 04:13 AM
it's not unusual to see the steelers' DBs giving huge cushions.

the weakness in the steelers' defense is short crossing patterns. remember gannon?

mmalone
09-22-2009, 05:09 AM
it's not unusual to see the steelers' DBs giving huge cushions.

the weakness in the steelers' defense is short crossing patterns. remember gannon?

the jets were right on the line with the Pats wr's most of the game, they hit them on the line and knocked off bradys time clock....

that worked well for the jets. we need to do that more...

we sit back way to far most of the time. taylor gives up plenty of yards on plays like that.

Tone's Toes
09-22-2009, 05:33 AM
You have to give up something. You just can't take away everything from an offense. The Steelers chose to play off and give up some underneath stuff, especially across the middle and even on some comeback routes down the sidelines. The alternative is playing aggressive and every time Willie Gay or Ike Taylor gets beat (which does happen) you give up a huge play, probably a TD.

The Steelers chose to try and keep everything in front of them. that way if a CB gets beat it's only for a small-medium gain and not a huge gain or TD. By keeping everything in front of them they force teams to make a series of good plays against their defense to score, as opposed to giving them a lot of opportunities to score on 1 big play. The Steelers believe that if they keep everything in front of them that they'll eventually make a big play of their own and get a sack, interception, a fumble etc.

mmalone
09-22-2009, 06:04 AM
You have to give up something. You just can't take away everything from an offense. The Steelers chose to play off and give up some underneath stuff, especially across the middle and even on some comeback routes down the sidelines. The alternative is playing aggressive and every time Willie Gay or Ike Taylor gets beat (which does happen) you give up a huge play, probably a TD.

The Steelers chose to try and keep everything in front of them. that way if a CB gets beat it's only for a small-medium gain and not a huge gain or TD. By keeping everything in front of them they force teams to make a series of good plays against their defense to score, as opposed to giving them a lot of opportunities to score on 1 big play. The Steelers believe that if they keep everything in front of them that they'll eventually make a big play of their own and get a sack, interception, a fumble etc.

i guess, 7 first downs and a 90 yard drive for a td in 9 plays or the chance for a pic or you give up a quick long one for a td....

brady eats you up 6 yards at a time. the jets stopped that... it worked for them..
jets won....

Tone's Toes
09-22-2009, 07:53 AM
i guess, 7 first downs and a 90 yard drive for a td in 9 plays or the chance for a pic or you give up a quick long one for a td....

brady eats you up 6 yards at a time. the jets stopped that... it worked for them..
jets won....

The Packers played that way too. Did it work at all last year? Their D sucked last season. They fired their D coordinator and changed their D to be more like the Steelers. See how the grass is always greener on the other side. Their scheme isn't perfect and they switch to something more like ours The Steelers scheme isn't perfect and you want to switch to something like theirs was and the Jets is. Point is that no scheme is perfect. I think the Steelers scheme is the best for their roster.

The Steelers also don't have a CB anywhere close to the caliber of Revis. With CB's the caliber that the Steelers have (Taylor & Gay etc.) letting those CB's play aggressive and living with the consequences of them getting beat is not something that I'd be willing to do at this point. They get beat a lot underneath now, if you let them play more aggressive then they'll still be getting beat and beat for TD's instead of first downs etc. We don't need to feature the CB's, the best players on the defense are not our CB's, it's our front 7. They just gotta keep things in front of them and give those guy's up front as many opportunities to make plays as possible and that's the best way to go, imo.

Also, Brady will burn you with the deep ball all day long if that's what you give him, he just doesn't force it. Remember the AFC title game in the 04 season?

mmalone
09-22-2009, 08:45 AM
The Packers played that way too. Did it work at all last year? Their D sucked last season. They fired their D coordinator and changed their D to be more like the Steelers. See how the grass is always greener on the other side. Their scheme isn't perfect and they switch to something more like ours The Steelers scheme isn't perfect and you want to switch to something like theirs was and the Jets is. Point is that no scheme is perfect. I think the Steelers scheme is the best for their roster.

The Steelers also don't have a CB anywhere close to the caliber of Revis. With CB's the caliber that the Steelers have (Taylor & Gay etc.) letting those CB's play aggressive and living with the consequences of them getting beat is not something that I'd be willing to do at this point. They get beat a lot underneath now, if you let them play more aggressive then they'll still be getting beat and beat for TD's instead of first downs etc. We don't need to feature the CB's, the best players on the defense are not our CB's, it's our front 7. They just gotta keep things in front of them and give those guy's up front as many opportunities to make plays as possible and that's the best way to go, imo.

Also, Brady will burn you with the deep ball all day long if that's what you give him, he just doesn't force it. Remember the AFC title game in the 04 season?

i guess.... the jets kicked their butt, gave up 9 points...

this is not the brady of 04.

hes a limp 09 version. he cant run in the pocket and wait long for the plays to expand, thats why he likes the dink and dunk stuff.. cut that off and he is done.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 11:26 AM
The Packers played that way too. Did it work at all last year? Their D sucked last season. They fired their D coordinator and changed their D to be more like the Steelers. See how the grass is always greener on the other side. Their scheme isn't perfect and they switch to something more like ours The Steelers scheme isn't perfect and you want to switch to something like theirs was and the Jets is. Point is that no scheme is perfect. I think the Steelers scheme is the best for their roster.

The Steelers also don't have a CB anywhere close to the caliber of Revis. With CB's the caliber that the Steelers have (Taylor & Gay etc.) letting those CB's play aggressive and living with the consequences of them getting beat is not something that I'd be willing to do at this point. They get beat a lot underneath now, if you let them play more aggressive then they'll still be getting beat and beat for TD's instead of first downs etc. We don't need to feature the CB's, the best players on the defense are not our CB's, it's our front 7. They just gotta keep things in front of them and give those guy's up front as many opportunities to make plays as possible and that's the best way to go, imo.

Also, Brady will burn you with the deep ball all day long if that's what you give him, he just doesn't force it. Remember the AFC title game in the 04 season?

Like the analysis, but totally disagree with the criticism of Taylor. Revis is overrated and Ike is underrated. VERY rarely will you EVER see Ike beat, and when passes are thrown his way 95% of the time he's in lock-step with the WR he's covering.

Now if a WR/TE/RB is catching balls in a zones seam, in the transition from one players area of responsibility to another, that's a separate issue (and I believe a LOT of what we gave up Sunday was in the LB's and S's area of responsibility, like Carter not supporting his DB's), but to single out Ike and call his man-to-man coverage abilities inferior is wrong IMO. He ran step-for-step wit Fitz in the SB...and I think yes, he's THAT good...

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 11:31 AM
Gay isnt a guy with great speed. I think his combine time was 4.55 while Johnny Knox of the bears was a 4.3 guy. He needed safety help, but didnt have it so gave cushion.

Gay will be OK, but I really questioned if he was able to be a starting CB at this point in the NFL. Its why Keenan Lewis was drafted IMO.

jjpro11
09-22-2009, 11:57 AM
i think Lebeau respected the speed of the Bears receivers, Hester, Knox, and Olsen and Cutler's big arm. that's why we tried to keep everything in front of the defenders. the plan almost worked, had it not been for 2 missed field goals and one final drive where we gave up too many yards.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 12:23 PM
The Steelers play "off-man", which has the CB's playing off most of the time, but keeping the play in front of them. Gay was just too slow to get upfield on that turf, when the balls were thrown short.

He had to respect Knox speed too.

7/39/43
09-22-2009, 03:00 PM
first year as a starter Gay is still learning but Taylor also was looking pretty stupid out there also(normal)

GridironWarrior
09-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Remember the Jets were able to play their corners up close because they have excellent corners in Revis and Shepard. Revis is probably in the top 5 of NFL Corners. You play Ike and Gay up close and they are likely to get beat. What annoyed me about Ike Sunday was his lack of effort on that duck Cutler threw that he could have picked for an easy six. There was no effort on that play.

BlastFurnace
09-22-2009, 05:39 PM
Remember the Jets were able to play their corners up close because they have excellent corners in Revis and Shepard. Revis is probably in the top 5 of NFL Corners. You play Ike and Gay up close and they are likely to get beat. What annoyed me about Ike Sunday was his lack of effort on that duck Cutler threw that he could have picked for an easy six. There was no effort on that play.

I agree on that one. If Ike just dives forward for that...or even makes a better effort for that ball...that ball is picked off.

markymarc
09-23-2009, 03:50 PM
William Gay will be just fine. The only defensive player I am concerned about is Tyrone Carter. Palmer is going to tear him up on Sunday.

Tone's Toes
09-24-2009, 03:10 AM
Like the analysis, but totally disagree with the criticism of Taylor. Revis is overrated and Ike is underrated. VERY rarely will you EVER see Ike beat, and when passes are thrown his way 95% of the time he's in lock-step with the WR he's covering.

Now if a WR/TE/RB is catching balls in a zones seam, in the transition from one players area of responsibility to another, that's a separate issue (and I believe a LOT of what we gave up Sunday was in the LB's and S's area of responsibility, like Carter not supporting his DB's), but to single out Ike and call his man-to-man coverage abilities inferior is wrong IMO. He ran step-for-step wit Fitz in the SB...and I think yes, he's THAT good...

Wasn't really picking on Ike. He's the Steelers best CB by a mile. I'm just not sure our CB's fit that aggressive man to man scheme. I'd be more concerned with Gay than Ike, but either way I think they'd have issues.

Revis is not overrated, imo. Just keep your eye on him when you have a Jets game on. He is an absolute force at CB and I'm not saying that because he's a Pitt guy (I don't cheer for Pitt) I don't even say it because he's a Western PA kid. I say it because it's the truth. He completely shuts down the other teams best WR every week. NE was moving Moss to the slot consistently just to get him away from the Revis match up.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-24-2009, 07:55 AM
I cant believe the fans that want our CB's to play press man coverage with a guy that has 4.3 speed. :doh:

These are the same fans that say " Wallace will blow by CB's with his speed if they get in his face".

GridironWarrior
09-24-2009, 09:56 AM
How can anyone call Revis overrated? Are you serious? Have you even watched the kid play? Especially this past Sunday against Moss? He's better than CB we have. Unlike Ike he gives effort. Did you see Ike not even attempt to go after that duck Cutler threw? Lazy! Revis is a corner the Steelers wish they had right now. Ike is average at best. Only WR he seems to shut down is Chad.

revefsreleets
09-24-2009, 03:50 PM
How can anyone call Revis overrated? Are you serious? Have you even watched the kid play? Especially this past Sunday against Moss? He's better than CB we have. Unlike Ike he gives effort. Did you see Ike not even attempt to go after that duck Cutler threw? Lazy! Revis is a corner the Steelers wish they had right now. Ike is average at best. Only WR he seems to shut down is Chad.


Yes...more importantly, i have watched IKE play. If he could catch, he'd be right behind Asomugha among the elite. WAY too much emphasis is put on INT's, and it results in statements like "Ike is only average". That's fantasy/Madden talk, not the reality...

I realize it's not PC to say ANYTHING untoward about a kid from Western PA, but I'm not saying he sucks, just saying he's overrated and Ike is underrated.

GridironWarrior
09-24-2009, 04:32 PM
Yes...more importantly, i have watched IKE play. If he could catch, he'd be right behind Asomugha among the elite. WAY too much emphasis is put on INT's, and it results in statements like "Ike is only average". That's fantasy/Madden talk, not the reality...

I realize it's not PC to say ANYTHING untoward about a kid from Western PA, but I'm not saying he sucks, just saying he's overrated and Ike is underrated.

Iím not talking about picks, Revis doesnít have that many anyway. Iím talking coverage and hustle. Ike takes plays off at time. Which he did in Chicago on that duck Cutler threw. Ike is not underrated. Heís average, always has been. I donít judge a corner by picks. Revis is solid. No way is overrated. I'm sure there others who agree.

BlastFurnace
09-24-2009, 04:48 PM
How can anyone call Revis overrated? Are you serious? Have you even watched the kid play? Especially this past Sunday against Moss? He's better than CB we have. Unlike Ike he gives effort. Did you see Ike not even attempt to go after that duck Cutler threw? Lazy! Revis is a corner the Steelers wish they had right now. Ike is average at best. Only WR he seems to shut down is Chad.

Revis was the guy the Steelers wanted in the 1st Round when they drafted Timmons.

steelballs
09-25-2009, 11:11 AM
That rookies name was Knox and he is scary good. They kid has speed and great hands, and I know he will make a name for himself in the NFL. He tore apart Gay and Carter, but Gay will bounce back.

This Knox kid was available to the Steelers in the draft, but we took Wallace instead. Time will tell if this was a wise decision, but Knox certainly looked good last week.

OneForTheToe
09-27-2009, 06:15 PM
I'm not blaming Gay for this loss. I mean where is the pass rush? Still, I have to admit he needs to get it together. You can bust on Carter, but he is a safety and, unless you are Troy, one expects safeties to sometimes be in a mismatch. A corner has to be able to cover better than William is ....... as well, as make the tackle. Again the loss isn't on William -it's a team loss- but he needs to step it up.