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mesaSteeler
09-22-2009, 12:05 AM
Steelers' Starks has big job against Bengals
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_644306.html#
By Scott Brown
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, September 22, 2009

The Steelers' Max Starks will try to do what two left tackles before him could not: slow down Bengals defensive end Antwan Odom.

Odom has an astounding seven sacks through two games, which is five more than the Steelers have as a team. The 6-foot-5, 280-pounder sacked Aaron Rodgers five times Sunday in the Bengals' 31-24 upset of the Packers in Green Bay.

"He's on my side, so it's going to be a very fun game for me," Starks said Monday. "Odom's a guy, he has speed, but he likes to be inside most of the time. For me, it's going to be about being stout. He wants to pick you apart, get you with his power and use his quickness more so than using his speed upfield."

Odom's career-high in sacks is eight, which he had in 2007 with the Tennessee Titans.

• The Steelers had several costly defensive penalties in their 17-14 loss to the Chicago Bears. One, a roughing the passer call on outside linebacker James Harrison, came after punter Daniel Sepulveda had pinned the Bears inside their 5-yard line. Another, a holding call on inside linebacker Lawrence Timmons, gave the Bears a first down after quarterback Jay Cutler had thrown an incomplete pass on third down. The Bears went on to score a game-tying touchdown at the end of the first half.

"When James was rushing, the fullback still had him and the fullback kind of turned him into the quarterback, which got him," outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley said after the Steelers reviewed film of the game. "The other one, Timmons was coming off the line and might have touched the guy a little bit and the guy fell ... that's things we can't control."

DIGITS

85.6 — Ben Roethlisberger's passer rating through two games.

93.4 — Opposing quarterbacks' combined passer rating in two games against the Steelers.

Scott Brown can be reached at sbrown@tribweb.com or 412-481-5432.

SteelC7
09-22-2009, 03:38 AM
i cant believe ppl can actually travel thru time...weve gone back to 2006, we were 1-1 thru 2 games in 2006, and we lost a game we should have won against the bengals early that season, i hope it doesnt duplicate itself on sunday, we already look horrible, so what if we beat the titans? so did the texans

solardave
09-22-2009, 03:50 AM
i cant believe ppl can actually travel thru time...weve gone back to 2006, we were 1-1 thru 2 games in 2006, and we lost a game we should have won against the bengals early that season, i hope it doesnt duplicate itself on sunday, we already look horrible, so what if we beat the titans? so did the texans

THE SKY IS FALLING> THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

KeiselPower99
09-22-2009, 09:30 AM
Odom was going against the Packers backup LT. Starks should keep Odom in check.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Odom was going against the Packers backup LT. Starks should keep Odom in check.

I am interested if this is true, or if Odom will further expose Starks as the slow footed, sloppy technician that he is.

Last year Odom looked tenative and confused when playing against the Steelers. This season he looks to be just getting after it on Defense. Should be a good matchup.

Hammer Of The GODS
09-22-2009, 09:53 AM
Personally I have little faith that Starks can get it done.


That being said if Starks struggles early, the coaches better adjust by getting Starks the help he'll most definately need by using a back or TE on that side.

We can not lose to the Bengals. The ratbirds are rolling and we can't afford to drop behind them 2 games if we want to win this division.



.

RoethlisBURGHer
09-22-2009, 10:01 AM
Personally I have little faith that Starks can get it done.


That being said if Starks struggles early, the coaches better adjust by getting Starks the help he'll most definately need by using a back or TE on that side.

We can not lose to the Bengals. The ratbirds are rolling and we can't afford to drop behind them 2 games if we want to win this division.



.

I agree.

Starks struggles mightily against speed rushers and Odom can come with speed AND power.

stlrtruck
09-22-2009, 10:04 AM
I agree.

Starks struggles mightily against speed rushers and Odom can come with speed AND power.

Just have Ward hit him once or twice and that'll slow his arse down!

CantStop85
09-22-2009, 11:19 AM
Odom was going against the Packers backup LT. Starks should keep Odom in check.

Eh, he got 2 sacks against Chad Clifton, then he got injured and he got 3 against the backup.

fansince'76
09-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Not to change the subject or hijack the thread, but I'm personally worried about Elvis Dumervil when we play the Broncs - 4 sacks Sunday and he absolutely abused Joe Thomas.

KeiselPower99
09-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Eh, he got 2 sacks against Chad Clifton, then he got injured and he got 3 against the backup.

So what your saying is he owned both of em right? Against the Broncos he had 2 as well right? If thats true and he owned Ryan Clady as well we should be worried. Im sure Heath will be over on that side alot this week.

Steeldude
09-22-2009, 12:59 PM
the problem is if you bench starks, who do you put in? hills?:toofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 01:21 PM
the problem is if you bench starks, who do you put in? hills?:toofunny:

So true. I think if Starks goes down the plan is for Essex to play LT and Legursky plays RG.

Personally I would have liked to see an O line from Left to right as Essex, Kemo, Hartwig, Colon, Starks. IMO Essex has better feet as a pass protector than Starks and Colon should be playing guard.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 01:27 PM
After seeing how well the OL has PASS PROTECTED this year against two pretty good defenses, I'm not all that super concerned. I think we'll be fine...even at LT.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 01:42 PM
After seeing how well the OL has PASS PROTECTED this year against two pretty good defenses, I'm not all that super concerned. I think we'll be fine...even at LT.

Only thing is that Starks got worked by Calais Campbell of Ariz in the preseason, then the Redskins DE the next game. His slow feet and poor kick slide got him beat week 1 several times and Alex Brown got several shots on Ben because of it.

I looked at last nights game and saw Jake Long handle Freeney single handedly with good footwork, positioning and punch. Then I see Starks and he needs help with Calais Campbell?? Sad to see that he's not even average at LT.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 01:50 PM
If the Bengals are as good as advertised, we'll slide a little help over ole' Starks way...

By the by, don't have PGH analysis of the Bears game yet, but in game one, Starks was credited with half responsibility for one sack, and even that MAY have been Kemo's fault, since one guy got double teamed and the other went free. If you look at the frame-by-frame, it still shows that even if Starks DID pick up the guy, Miller was still out there trying to block two guys by himself, so it might have still resulted in a sack simply from the Titans overloading their right (our left) side...

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 01:57 PM
If the Bengals are as good as advertised, we'll slide a little help over ole' Starks way...

By the by, don't have PGH analysis of the Bears game yet, but in game one, Starks was credited with half responsibility for one sack, and even that MAY have been Kemo's fault, since one guy got double teamed and the other went free. If you look at the frame-by-frame, it still shows that even if Starks DID pick up the guy, Miller was still out there trying to block two guys by himself, so it might have still resulted in a sack simply from the Titans overloading their right (our left) side...

Yes, I did go over that play vs the Titans, and Starks blocked NOBODY on it. If he chose to block 1 player, then Miller only has 1 player to block. Miller actually blocked and slid into the flat as an outlet.

I think if Starks chose to block at least 1 guy instead of NOBODY, then it could have allowed Miller to block and release so Ben had an outlet. The fact that Starks didnt stop any rush meant that when Miller was open, Ben was being harassed.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 02:01 PM
Woah....there were 3 guys on the Titans right side, and Kemo blocked inside...how are Starks and Miller going to block THREE titans on the play? Starks took one bad step to his back and left, then tried to recover but was too late...if he would have committed to one of the two outside guys in support of Miller, the sack would have happened even faster.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/week1sack2c.jpg

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 03:07 PM
Woah....there were 3 guys on the Titans right side, and Kemo blocked inside...how are Starks and Miller going to block THREE titans on the play? Starks took one bad step to his back and left, then tried to recover but was too late...if he would have committed to one of the two outside guys in support of Miller, the sack would have happened even faster.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/week1sack2c.jpg

As an O lineman, you are supposed to know where your QB will be in the pocket. With that being known the O lineman establishes a "post foot", so that the defender is not gonna cross over that foot to get to the QB.

If Starks thought Ben was gonna be on his inside, then Starks should have made his right foot the post foot and forced the 2 rushers outside, so Ben could have slid right and eluded the rush to throw the ball.

Imagine if you will, that you and SteelinCA see Steel Head with a $50 in bar, but there is a stool between you and him. But the stool has a pool cue blocking one way around it, so you and CA have to go around left to get to your $50. That is what Starks should have done.......instead Starks folded like a cheap lawn chair and allowed both a straight line to the QB (or Fitty in your case).

CantStop85
09-22-2009, 03:13 PM
So what your saying is he owned both of em right? Against the Broncos he had 2 as well right? If thats true and he owned Ryan Clady as well we should be worried. Im sure Heath will be over on that side alot this week.

Yeah, he's been pretty dominant thus far, which is exciting because he couldn't stay healthy last season. I'm still taking a wait-and-see approach though, after all it's only been 2 games....and he sort of got over-shadowed when he played for Tennessee.

The defense as a whole has been pretty exciting so far, the Bengals have a lot of youth and athleticism now. But at the same time that also leads to the potential for a lot of inexperienced mistakes. The game this Sunday should be fun to watch.

AllD
09-22-2009, 03:44 PM
Starks better not choke. I say we amp up the offense to take some of the pressure off the rest of the team. Jump out to an early multi-score lead instead of playing so close. Time to open up the passing game and see what we got, especially since the line blocks better with the pass.

revefsreleets
09-22-2009, 04:49 PM
As an O lineman, you are supposed to know where your QB will be in the pocket. With that being known the O lineman establishes a "post foot", so that the defender is not gonna cross over that foot to get to the QB.

If Starks thought Ben was gonna be on his inside, then Starks should have made his right foot the post foot and forced the 2 rushers outside, so Ben could have slid right and eluded the rush to throw the ball.

Imagine if you will, that you and SteelinCA see Steel Head with a $50 in bar, but there is a stool between you and him. But the stool has a pool cue blocking one way around it, so you and CA have to go around left to get to your $50. That is what Starks should have done.......instead Starks folded like a cheap lawn chair and allowed both a straight line to the QB (or Fitty in your case).

Nice analogy...I appreciate the sentiment...

As for your content, that may very well be the case...hard to tell from one single shot.

However, it's clear that he DID see the threat from the outside and was sliding over to it, hence his outside move. Perhaps his footwork was bad, perhaps not, but he WAS seeing a blitz and WAS reacting to it. In this case, at THIS level, if he sets a post foot down where he is, the rusher would have just run behind him. Might work in HS, but I think you probably need to adjust for the speed of the game here...

Unless we know what both his and Kemo's assignments were, it's hard to lay all the blame at his feet...and even if you DO lay all the blame at Starks doorstep, it's the only sack he gave up all day. I'd say that shows improvement...

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-22-2009, 05:02 PM
Revs, I dont blame Starks for single plays and 0.5 sacks on a stat sheet. I blame him for being a sub par lineman overall. For having poor technique, inconsistent effort and "paralysis by analysis" like on that play.

IMO, a 6 year NFL veteran LT should know to at least hit 1 guy instead of letting 2 run free. The knock on him coming out of college was the same things that plague him here.

I just wish the Steelers had planned better for a successor at LT to protect Ben. At least they didnt break the bank on Starks latest contract.

BTW, establishing a post foot is irrelevant to the level of play, HS, College or Pro. Its just fundamental. If you got last nights game taped......watch Jake Long's kick step.....its almost perfect.

GridironWarrior
09-22-2009, 07:21 PM
I hope Ben doesn’t get destroyed cause of Starks or any of those guys up front. Heath is probably gonna be forced to stay in and block taking away a passing option.

KeiselPower99
09-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Didnt Tomlin say Foster was the #3 tackle on gameday?

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2009, 12:21 AM
Ramon Foster is too slow of foot to play LT effectively. I think he or Legursky would slide to guard if Starks went down.

Either way, I hope Starks can shut down Odom this week.

tony hipchest
09-23-2009, 12:56 AM
Revs, I dont blame Starks for single plays and 0.5 sacks on a stat sheet. I blame him for being a sub par lineman overall. For having poor technique, inconsistent effort and "paralysis by analysis" like on that play.

IMO, a 6 year NFL veteran LT should know to at least hit 1 guy instead of letting 2 run free. The knock on him coming out of college was the same things that plague him here.

I just wish the Steelers had planned better for a successor at LT to protect Ben. At least they didnt break the bank on Starks latest contract.

BTW, establishing a post foot is irrelevant to the level of play, HS, College or Pro. Its just fundamental. If you got last nights game taped......watch Jake Long's kick step.....its almost perfect.
for being nothing more than a HS coach, i have seen "professionals" give much less worthy of a take. :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
09-23-2009, 12:58 AM
with that being said, its not odom that scares me. who the f is going to cover henry? weve seen tons of times townsend have an uber tall wr blanketed, yet still get out jumped for the reception.

revefsreleets
09-23-2009, 09:41 AM
The OL MUST have a kick step if he wants to deny the outside lane to the wide rusher. To claim that the speed of the game is irrelevant just boggles the mind. It's literally what separates ALL the 300 lb lineman out there from the real professionals.

Anyway, enough of this. Larry Zierlein has an online blocking manual available for anyone to read. I think ANYONE who wants to learn about how blocking works, and what's involved with it (excepting the few of us who apparently already know everything about blocking) should take a look. This is another "Chess not Checkers" moment for all the people who think Zierlein is an idiot, methinks...

Enjoy:

http://fastandfuriousfootball.com/freeplaybooks/ZIERLEINPASSPRO.pdf

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-23-2009, 10:40 AM
In this case, at THIS level, if he sets a post foot down where he is, the rusher would have just run behind him. Might work in HS, but I think you probably need to adjust for the speed of the game here...

...

Hey Revs, nice find on Larry Z's pass blocking schemes. Did you see on page 6 of that where coach Z describes a POST FOOT???

I guess it only works in HS huh? :rolleyes:

markymarc
09-23-2009, 05:06 PM
I am very concerned about this match up. Max Starks struggles big time against speed rushers. He better bring his "A" game on Sunday.