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View Full Version : LeBeau? I'll say it


eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 10:26 AM
I know I'll get ripped by everyone here but why hasn't the great Coach LeBeau been able to scheme against these Mediocre Offenses the last two games. I understand that Troy is out but you can't tell me that a master mind like LeBeau can't figure out how to stop a team. OK, let the ripping begin!!

BlastFurnace
09-28-2009, 10:30 AM
LeBeau didn't miss any tackles, drop a pass in the end zone, run the wrong route, etc.

There is plenty of blame to pass around for the past 2 weeks, but LeBeau is not a someone that is losing games for us.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

fansince'76
09-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Funny - 3 weeks ago he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I guess if we drop to 1-3 next week, it'll be Tomlin's head on the chopping block around here. :coffee:

simonsfs30
09-28-2009, 10:34 AM
he got us 2 superbowls and great defenses, blame arians who couldnt score on red zone, if farrior tackles leonard our defense would have won the game

BLAME ARIANSSS

revefsreleets
09-28-2009, 10:41 AM
LeBeau didn't miss any tackles, drop a pass in the end zone, run the wrong route, etc.

There is plenty of blame to pass around for the past 2 weeks, but LeBeau is not a someone that is losing games for us.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Thank you for injecting a little logic into this thread.

First off, blaming Arians is retarded. Period.

I was at a HS football game Friday night, two pretty good teams, well coached, fundamentally sound, and I watched one RB DESTROY the opposing defense. The defensive schemes were solid, the players were in place to stop the RB, but he still powered through tackles and was an unstoppable force (They took him out after 3 qtrs, he had 273 yards rushing and 4 TD's).

Why do I bring this up? Because the coach had a great plan devised to stop this kid, 8-9 in the box, run blitzes, basically a whole defense devised to contain the RB, but it FAILED because the defenders were unable to execute the plan. Even when the players were in place to make a stop, the RB just broke tackles or made moves and juked his way out of tackles.

LeBeau I'm sure had a plan that was devised to win. Arians certainly did. But when players don't execute, there is nothing more a coach can do. Blame the players, not the coaches, at least for this loss.

(Kids name is Erick Howard by the way: North Canton [OH] Hoover. He already has 973 yards and 15 TD's this year against top Division 1 talent. He'll be a top college RB).

RoethlisBURGHer
09-28-2009, 10:46 AM
How the hell is this LeBeau's fault?

You can scheme all you want, but when mistakes are made you can't blame the coordinator like so many people around here do.

If Ben doesn't throw a Pick Six, we win this game.

If Sweed doesn't fall down like an idiot, dropping the TD catch, we win this game.

If there isn't pass interference on the final drive, maybe we win this game.

None of those things are the fault of a coordinator. Damn sure not the fault of LeBeau.

Gnutella
09-28-2009, 11:01 AM
I do blame Dick LeBeau to an extent. He develops great gameplans, but in four of the last six games, including last year's playoffs, he's only bothered to implement his gameplan for 45 minutes. There's a reason why Philip Rivers got to pad his stats late in the Divisional round, why Larry Fitzgerald sliced our defense for two TDs, and why Jay Cutler and Carson Palmer were able to lead multiple fourth-quarter scoring drives.

Gnutella
09-28-2009, 11:03 AM
How the hell is this LeBeau's fault?

You can scheme all you want, but when mistakes are made you can't blame the coordinator like so many people around here do.

If Ben doesn't throw a Pick Six, we win this game.

If Sweed doesn't fall down like an idiot, dropping the TD catch, we win this game.

If there isn't pass interference on the final drive, maybe we win this game.

None of those things are the fault of a coordinator. Damn sure not the fault of LeBeau.

If Santonio Holmes pays attention and breaks off his route, Ben Roethlisberger doesn't throw an INT.

As for Dick LeBeau, he does deserve some of the blame. Not all of it, but some of it.

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Just as I expected. All I'm saying is the last two games the underneath stuff has been killing us. Great defense's find a way to scheme during a game. If I'm not mistaken the Bear's and Bengals defense stopped our Offense. Are you guys saying that their Defense (players) are better than our beloved #1 Defense from a year ago minus Troy? Hey, at least the Offensive line gets a break from the forum Coaches this week, lol.

fansince'76
09-28-2009, 11:08 AM
Just as I expected....

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.... :coffee:

SteelStang
09-28-2009, 11:19 AM
Just as I expected. All I'm saying is the last two games the underneath stuff has been killing us. Great defense's find a way to scheme during a game. If I'm not mistaken the Bear's and Bengals defense stopped our Offense. Are you guys saying that their Defense (players) are better than our beloved #1 Defense from a year ago minus Troy? Hey, at least the Offensive line gets a break from the forum Coaches this week, lol.

Dead on accurate. Watching the last two weeks reminded me of the year Rich Gannon came to town and shredded us with short passing. I certainly don't put it all on DL because Woodley and Harrison have been almost non-existent, but I continue to be surprised by the lack of creativity with our blitz schemes. I don't recall any X-fires up the middle or very much overloading to one side either.

As for Arians, we have ALWAYS struggled in the RZ with him at OC. No creativity whatsoever especially inside the 10. The bootleg last week was actually quite a leap forward for him.

MACH1
09-28-2009, 11:29 AM
Funny - 3 weeks ago he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I guess if we drop to 1-3 next week, it'll be Tomlin's head on the chopping block around here. :coffee:

Don't give em any ideas.

MACH1
09-28-2009, 11:32 AM
Just as I expected. All I'm saying is the last two games the underneath stuff has been killing us. Great defense's find a way to scheme during a game. If I'm not mistaken the Bear's and Bengals defense stopped our Offense. Are you guys saying that their Defense (players) are better than our beloved #1 Defense from a year ago minus Troy? Hey, at least the Offensive line gets a break from the forum Coaches this week, lol.

A dropped TD, a missed FG. :noidea:

There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the ball.

steelreserve
09-28-2009, 11:34 AM
I didn't like the way we let them march down the field at the end, but the defense still only gave up what,16 points? I'd be worried if we let them score 35.

Steeldude
09-28-2009, 11:55 AM
i still have faith in lebeau, but that defense of giving huge cushions and allowing 5 yard plays hasn't worked out well as of late.

coaches can be at fault too. they put those players on the field. if they can't execute what they want then find someone who can or change the scheme a bit.

Rochwacher
09-28-2009, 12:05 PM
LeBeau SHOULD have been tackling out there. It would have been an improvement.

slippy
09-28-2009, 12:06 PM
if the O could turn all that yardage into points, the D scheme would be fine. the other team would not have time to nickel and dime us to death.

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 12:16 PM
if the O could turn all that yardage into points, the D scheme would be fine. the other team would not have time to nickel and dime us to death.

As a defense, especially our D you go into games with a mindset that our Offense isn't going to put very many points on the board, especially with our Offenses's track record so you need to shut down teams, nickle and diming us isn't an option unfortunately.
If you think about it the last couple of games have been carbon copies of how we won games last year. Teams would start out fast against us, we would get behind, the Defense would scheme around what the opponents Offense was doing and shut them down in the 2nd half and we would win it late. Does any of this sound familiar.

jjpro11
09-28-2009, 12:24 PM
the mistakes did us in. way way way too many. an unfortunate BS call against Hines right before the INT didn't help matters either.

SteelRNation
09-28-2009, 12:51 PM
What? Really? We allowed 10 to the Titans. 17 to the Bears. And through 3 quarters yesterday, held the Bengals to 9. I'll take those numbers all day long and twice on sunday. Only 5 teams have allowed less points than us after 3 games. I dont think we are as bad on defense as people think.

Steeldude
09-28-2009, 01:00 PM
I dont think we are as bad on defense as people think.

i don't think so either, but the defense in the 4th quarter has not been well at all

stillers4me
09-28-2009, 01:02 PM
i don't think so either, but the defense in the 4th quarter has not been well at all

Something is not right and it has nothing to do with Troy being out. Harrison had double digit sacks at this point last year. Was that his first one yesterday? And I've been playing "Where's Woodley" but I can't find him in the sack total. :noidea:

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 01:03 PM
What? Really? We allowed 10 to the Titans. 17 to the Bears. And through 3 quarters yesterday, held the Bengals to 9. I'll take those numbers all day long and twice on sunday. Only 5 teams have allowed less points than us after 3 games. I dont think we are as bad on defense as people think.

I agree, I'll take those numbers all day long also as long as we get the W. Numbers don't mean anything if you don't get the W. I don't care if the Defense gives up 3 or 45 points per game as long as we make the playoffs. I would rather be 25th in the league rather than 1st as far as points allowed and make the playoffs than 1st in the league and miss the playoffs. Who's with me!

Fire Haley
09-28-2009, 01:04 PM
LeBeau didn't miss any tackles, drop a pass in the end zone, run the wrong route, etc.

There is plenty of blame to pass around for the past 2 weeks, but LeBeau is not a someone that is losing games for us.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Replace "LeBeau" with "Arians" and the hypocrits will tell you why you're wrong.

SteelRNation
09-28-2009, 01:09 PM
I agree, I'll take those numbers all day long also as long as we get the W. Numbers don't mean anything if you don't get the W. I don't care if the Defense gives up 3 or 45 points per game as long as we make the playoffs. I would rather be 25th in the league rather than 1st as far as points allowed and make the playoffs than 1st in the league and miss the playoffs. Who's with me!

And I'd rather have the defense we have and know we have a home game against the Chargers and then the Lions and Browns. So I think we'll be 5-2...just like we were last year after 7 games. The defense is fine. look at it this way. Troy is out and Harrison hasnt revved up yet and we're still holding teams basically in check. Not many defenses can take out their 2 best players and perform as well as we are.(and for all pratical purposes...Harrison has been taken out).

Preacher
09-28-2009, 01:11 PM
The weak spot of the fire-blitz defense has always been the underneath stuff. The Seahawks marched down the field on us in SB XL with it. For some reason, we have not been able to stop teams in the fourth quarter now starting with the first game of the playoffs.

San Diego put up 14 points in the fourth quarter.
Ravens put up 7 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters.
Cards offense put up 14 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters (not counting the safety).
Tennessee was held to only three.
Chicago scored 10 points.
Bengals scored 14 points.

That is an average of 10.3 points per game per fourth quarter. Something is wrong.

1. Maybe our schemes are being figured out by the opposition by the fourth quarter
2. Maybe our age is catching up to us?
3. Maybe we are moving to a prevent/cover two?
4. Maybe something completely different.

I do think it is a legitimate concern... for the coaching staff. I ain't going to waste my time worrying about it, as I can't fix it. But it is something to find interesting and discuss to pass time.

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 01:15 PM
The weak spot of the fire-blitz defense has always been the underneath stuff. The Seahawks marched down the field on us in SB XL with it. For some reason, we have not been able to stop teams in the fourth quarter now starting with the first game of the playoffs.

San Diego put up 14 points in the fourth quarter.
Ravens put up 7 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters.
Cards offense put up 14 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters (not counting the safety).
Tennessee was held to only three.
Chicago scored 10 points.
Bengals scored 14 points.

That is an average of 10.3 points per game per fourth quarter. Something is wrong.

1. Maybe our schemes are being figured out by the opposition by the fourth quarter
2. Maybe our age is catching up to us?
3. Maybe we are moving to a prevent/cover two?
4. Maybe something completely different.

I do think it is a legitimate concern... for the coaching staff. I ain't going to waste my time worrying about it, as I can't fix it. But it is something to find interesting and discuss to pass time.

Well put Preacher, I started this thread because all you hear about after a loss is how bad the Offense is/was. God forbid we mention anything bad about the Defense! Just my observation as a long time Steeler fan.

The_WARDen
09-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Could it be as simple as the defense is getting old before our eyes?

4th quarter collapses tell me that they run out of gas....either that or Lebeau is getting outcoached on a consistent basis.

I doubt the latter.

43Hitman
09-28-2009, 01:16 PM
Funny - 3 weeks ago he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I guess if we drop to 1-3 next week, it'll be Tomlin's head on the chopping block around here. :coffee:

We should petition the league to have them rethink his HOF nomination.:coffee:

Preacher
09-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Come on everyone. IT is a natural evolution of the game.

How many people watched Steelers tapes in the offseason, to see how the SB champs defense played?

They found holes (EVERY SYSTEM HAS HOLES).

Now, those holes are being exploited, especially without Troy in there.

Tomlin and LeBeau will correct the problem, and we will be back on track a bit later on.

Until then, we need to buckle down for a bit of a bumpy ride.

Its all part of the game...

Virginia Steeler
09-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Come on everyone. IT is a natural evolution of the game.

How many people watched Steelers tapes in the offseason, to see how the SB champs defense played?

They found holes (EVERY SYSTEM HAS HOLES).

Now, those holes are being exploited, especially without Troy in there.

Tomlin and LeBeau will correct the problem, and we will be back on track a bit later on.

Until then, we need to buckle down for a bit of a bumpy ride.

Its all part of the game...


Preacher - I agree 100%.

The Steelers could easily be 3-0 or even 0-3. I think Troy is the best player on the team. Take any team's best player away and they're going to struggle.

GridironWarrior
09-28-2009, 01:34 PM
Itd also help if the refs stopped choking on their whistles and call holding on Harrison. We always get called for holding but Harrison is never held? Hes been out right tackled at times.

triphahn
09-28-2009, 01:35 PM
Burn the witch. Not sure which one. Just burn one.

lamberts-lost-tooth
09-28-2009, 01:56 PM
Come on everyone. IT is a natural evolution of the game.

How many people watched Steelers tapes in the offseason, to see how the SB champs defense played?

They found holes (EVERY SYSTEM HAS HOLES).

Now, those holes are being exploited, especially without Troy in there.

Tomlin and LeBeau will correct the problem, and we will be back on track a bit later on.

Until then, we need to buckle down for a bit of a bumpy ride.

Its all part of the game...

I agree that teams are finding holes....take a look at the defensive numbers from last the game and tell me if you see a disturbing trend..

R. Clark...........7-0
I. Taylor............5-1
T. Carter..........3-0
W. Gay.............3-1
J. Harrison......3-2
J. Farrior..........2-3
C. Hampton....2-0
B. Keisel..........2-1
L. Timmons....2-2
D. Townsend..1-2
L. Woodley.......1-0
J. Burnett......... 0-1

19 solo tackles by the secondary and 8 by the LB corps.

In a defense that is predicated on the linemen tying up blockers so that the LBers can get to the ball...we are letting WAAAAAY to many ballcarriers get past the line of scrimmage.

The Lakelander
09-28-2009, 02:35 PM
The weak spot of the fire-blitz defense has always been the underneath stuff. The Seahawks marched down the field on us in SB XL with it. For some reason, we have not been able to stop teams in the fourth quarter now starting with the first game of the playoffs.

San Diego put up 14 points in the fourth quarter.
Ravens put up 7 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters.
Cards offense put up 14 after being held to 7 in the first three quarters (not counting the safety).
Tennessee was held to only three.
Chicago scored 10 points.
Bengals scored 14 points.

That is an average of 10.3 points per game per fourth quarter. Something is wrong.

1. Maybe our schemes are being figured out by the opposition by the fourth quarter
2. Maybe our age is catching up to us?
3. Maybe we are moving to a prevent/cover two?
4. Maybe something completely different.

I do think it is a legitimate concern... for the coaching staff. I ain't going to waste my time worrying about it, as I can't fix it. But it is something to find interesting and discuss to pass time.

It has everything to do with not wanting to give up a late quick hitter again, like we did in the Super Bowl.

It is better to force a team to run down clock and use timeouts with the short stuff.

The problem is that our offense hasn't sustained any long clock-eating 4th quarter drives of our own.

We drive. We score. We eat clock and opposing team time outs!

This Run-Run-Pass-Punt stuff in the 4th quarter has to end.

We need to eat clock and kill off our 4th quarter leads!

Lebeau's defense is assuming a role the offense is supposed to have!

BozMan
09-28-2009, 03:23 PM
I agree that teams are finding holes....take a look at the defensive numbers from last the game and tell me if you see a disturbing trend..



19 solo tackles by the secondary and 8 by the LB corps.

In a defense that is predicated on the linemen tying up blockers so that the LBers can get to the ball...we are letting WAAAAAY to many ballcarriers get past the line of scrimmage.

Good observation.... The ILBs, especially Farrior, should be the leading tacklers. Perhaps this thread title should be: "Farrior? I'll say it". He hasn't been as sharp the last 2 games and has admitted it himself.

jjpro11
09-28-2009, 04:01 PM
Could it be as simple as the defense is getting old before our eyes?

4th quarter collapses tell me that they run out of gas....either that or Lebeau is getting outcoached on a consistent basis.

I doubt the latter.

if it's age that's the problem, then it's the Dline not getting the job done when we need them. because other than Farrior, Townsend, and Carter (when he is in), we are pretty young at linebacker and defensive back. Harrison's 31, but doesn't have many miles on the tires like other players his age. and he is not slowing down any at the end of the game, i can tell you that.

is it time to see what Ziggy Hood can do in situational pass rush situations? a fresh young linemen out there with a motor might do the trick when we desperately need pressure on those 3rd downs. the coaches obviously know their players, but i definitely wouldn't mind seeing what he can do. we already have one rookie making a significant impact on this team.

Steeldude
09-29-2009, 12:45 AM
2. Maybe our age is catching up to us?

the steelers need to replenish. hopefully next draft they ignore drafting a WR, RB, QB and TE. i want to see DL, OL and LB drafted.

Galax Steeler
09-29-2009, 03:33 AM
In no way what so ever is it LeBeau's fault. I hate to put it on one guy but I think we miss Troy. These other teams are going after our secondary. You do not see Tyrone Carter at the line getting ready to blitz then fall back into coverage. We miss Troy and other teams are taking advantage of it.