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View Full Version : CB cushion and how it's hurting us


jsteelers51191
09-28-2009, 02:44 PM
We see it year after year, but how many times are we gonna line up where our corners are gonna give so much cushion you can't even see them on the tv screen? and I'm not irrationally saying this fresh off the loss, this has been a contionous issue for the last several years, albeit it was a little better last year. As long as we give an offense that is sound and disciplined the 10 yard out routes, we WILL continue to struggle in our secondary and they will just methodically drive it that way into the endzone. And yes, Lebeau shouldn't be shielded from criticism solely because of his track record. The proper adjustments weren't made, such as moving our db's closer or become more attack oriented in the end instead of only rushing 3 or 4 and letting palmer and pick apart. You're only as good as your last game, and this applies to coaches as well.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-28-2009, 02:55 PM
The Steelers play a lot of "off-man" coverages so the CB's keep things in front of them and can be reacting to the ball moving forward.

The alternative is to play "press man"(bump and run) and then be running with the WR with your back turned to him while the ball is in the air. Having your back to the ball is a major no-no in Dick LeBeau's system.

Nothing wrong with the cushion that the CB's are giving up if there is a pass rush, but there hasnt been much pressure in the past 3 weeks.

X-Terminator
09-28-2009, 03:00 PM
You beat me to it, El G. So many people complain about the cushion, but it's part of the scheme that they run. They play that way to avoid giving up the big pass play, while trusting the front 7 to get pressure on the QB. If they don't get pressure, then you get what happened to the D yesterday, allowing the Bengals to dink and dunk their way down the field.

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 03:05 PM
The cushion and scheme is a good idea if you have a big lead and can keep everything in front of you. I hate to say it but I would rather give up a big play and give the ball back to the Offense then give a team chances like the last two weeks. At least we control our own destiny at that point. Case in point, if we play press coverage the last series what's the worst that could have happened. We give up a big play with 2:00+ minutes to play and have a chance to tie/win or let them dink and dunk all the way down the field and dink and dunk it into the end zone.

X-Terminator
09-28-2009, 03:09 PM
The cushion and scheme is a good idea if you have a big lead and can keep everything in front of you. I hate to say it but I would rather give up a big play and give the ball back to the Offense then give a team chances like the last two weeks. At least we control our own destiny at that point. Case in point, if we play press coverage the last series what's the worst that could have happened. We give up a big play with 2:00+ minutes to play and have a chance to tie/win or let them dink and dunk all the way down the field and dink and dunk it into the end zone.

At the end of the game, they actually did play quite a bit of press coverage and were also giving a cover-2 look at times. And as we know, the weakness of the cover-2 is over the middle, which is exactly where the Bengals were attacking. It seems that if anything, they play more cover-2 when Troy is not in the lineup, and they really don't have the personnel to play it. You need to have an athletic LB who can cover in open space to really make it work, and while Timmons could be that guy, obviously he is not there yet. Why do you think Derrick Brooks had so many INTs in the "Tampa-2?" They were banking on getting pressure with 4 or 5 guys, which didn't happen, and that ended up costing them big time.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-28-2009, 03:14 PM
You beat me to it, El G. So many people complain about the cushion, but it's part of the scheme that they run. They play that way to avoid giving up the big pass play, while trusting the front 7 to get pressure on the QB. If they don't get pressure, then you get what happened to the D yesterday, allowing the Bengals to dink and dunk their way down the field.

Yeah, I never understand the fans that complain we give too much of a cushion, but then if Gay was to get in the face of a WR with 4.3 speed and get beat, they would complain he was too close. :banging:

Pretty much only the Raiders and Bills play consistent press man coverage in the NFL, but fans want to see the Steelers do it while Troy is freelancing at the LOS. :doh:

eafratitpm3
09-28-2009, 03:20 PM
Yeah, I never understand the fans that complain we give too much of a cushion, but then if Gay was to get in the face of a WR with 4.3 speed and get beat, they would complain he was too close. :banging:

Pretty much only the Raiders and Bills play consistent press man coverage in the NFL, but fans want to see the Steelers do it while Troy is freelancing at the LOS. :doh:

I agree but that is what puzzled me about the Chicago game. The TE's killed us that game, I couldn't believe that we couldn't cover them man to man and double Knox. Oh well, these games are in the past so hopefully the Steelers will get back on track on Sunday night. It's going to be a long week waiting for that game!:banging:

X-Terminator
09-28-2009, 03:26 PM
I agree but that is what puzzled me about the Chicago game. The TE's killed us that game, I couldn't believe that we couldn't cover them man to man and double Knox. Oh well, these games are in the past so hopefully the Steelers will get back on track on Sunday night. It's going to be a long week waiting for that game!:banging:

Unfortunately we really couldn't in the Chicago game because Carter is not good in coverage, and Timmons was limited due to his injury. If everyone is healthy, obviously Troy's responsibility is covering the TE high while Timmons handles him in the flat or short middle.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-28-2009, 05:32 PM
I agree but that is what puzzled me about the Chicago game. The TE's killed us that game, I couldn't believe that we couldn't cover them man to man and double Knox. Oh well, these games are in the past so hopefully the Steelers will get back on track on Sunday night. It's going to be a long week waiting for that game!:banging:

OK, so you double Knox, play Man on Hester and have to account for Olsen with a CB because we didnt have a LB that could cover him man to man. That means the team is constantly in a Nickel coverage and Chicago could run the football all over the other 6 guys on the field.

Its often easy to wonder and critizize, but more difficult to come up with a realistic solution.

Fact is, the cushion the CB's give is normal in the NFL and they reacty well. There was a play where Gay came up and made the tackle behind the line and "rocked the baby" afterwards. He had a good 7-8 yard cushion and made up the space FAST. That is how the style of play works. When there is not a pass rush, then it works like the old defenses of Chad Scott, Brent Alexander and Dewayne Washington in the secondary.

SteelTalons
09-28-2009, 06:09 PM
The Steelers play a lot of "off-man" coverages so the CB's keep things in front of them and can be reacting to the ball moving forward.

The alternative is to play "press man"(bump and run) and then be running with the WR with your back turned to him while the ball is in the air. Having your back to the ball is a major no-no in Dick LeBeau's system.

Nothing wrong with the cushion that the CB's are giving up if there is a pass rush, but there hasnt been much pressure in the past 3 weeks.

This! :thmbup:

Slanted August
09-28-2009, 08:41 PM
OK, so you double Knox, play Man on Hester and have to account for Olsen with a CB because we didnt have a LB that could cover him man to man. That means the team is constantly in a Nickel coverage and Chicago could run the football all over the other 6 guys on the field.

Its often easy to wonder and critizize, but more difficult to come up with a realistic solution.

Fact is, the cushion the CB's give is normal in the NFL and they reacty well. There was a play where Gay came up and made the tackle behind the line and "rocked the baby" afterwards. He had a good 7-8 yard cushion and made up the space FAST. That is how the style of play works. When there is not a pass rush, then it works like the old defenses of Chad Scott, Brent Alexander and Dewayne Washington in the secondary.

Nice Post

revefsreleets
09-29-2009, 04:46 PM
It's all part of "Bend but don't break". Would you rather give up big TD's or make the opposing offense earn every yard?

Points are STILL at a premium when you play the Steelers. We are still doing 90% of the correct things. We need our offense to average 4 more points a game as it stands now. We are "losing" 17.6 to 14.6 on average now. 17.6 points a game is not bad. It WILL get a little better, but we need our offense scoring 24 points a week.

The good news is the production has been edging upwards. 10 points in week 1. 14 in week 2. 20 in week 3. We get our offense up to 24 points a week and hold opponents to 14 or so and we'll be fine.

Anyway, the scheme is solid. It's worked for years. You play tight man-to-man (especially in bad conditions) and you'll give up 60 cheap points a year.