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revefsreleets
10-14-2009, 03:59 PM
This is kind of been covered, but...

This team in no way, shape or form should play in the National Championship game. I don't care if the BCS selects a couple two loss teams, but NO WAY do the Bronco's deserve a shot.

Why?

Well, despite the fact that they play in the woefully bad Western Athletic Conference, and therefore SOS is ALWAYS going to a huge obstacle, they actually scheduled a D-II opponent in their last game, UC Davis, and actually allowed that Jr. Varsity team to hang around.

I am vehemently opposed to top 25 teams padding their schedule with D-II opponents, and actually believe ranking spots should be stripped for doing so, but I can at least understand why a team that plays in a tough conference would schedule a game like that. But Boise State? The BIGGEST knock against them is SOS, so ANY opportunity they can find to play a D-1 foe they should schedule as heavy as possible. I give them some credit for scheduling Oregon, and they DID schedule a couple MAC schools, but UC Davis?

Unacceptable! I do NOT want to hear the bitching and bellyaching after the season when they "only" get a BCS bowl and not the NCG. They should be happy they get even that...

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-14-2009, 04:56 PM
And..........that blue turf gives me a headache when watching it.

revefsreleets
10-14-2009, 05:28 PM
Perhaps Tulsa will beat them tonight and end all this nonsense...doubt it, though...

Nadroj 20
10-14-2009, 05:59 PM
I agree with this i dont not think they should be in the National Championship even if they go undefeated

You can not tell me they are better then Florida, Texas, Alabama and Virgina Tech

IMO this is how i see it working out.....VIRGINIA TECH vs whoever wins the SEC.....yes i said it!!! i see Texas falling off somewhere maybe to oklahoma....and i just think va tech's schedule is more favorable then everyone else's

SteelersinCA
10-14-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't even think they should play in a BCS game and I hope the NCAA makes them replace that blue turf.

revefsreleets
10-15-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm for tossing them a bone if they go undefeated...but the days of them beating real top ranked teams in BCS bowl games is probably over.

IF UC Davis was replaced with a team like, say Navy or Air Force, or even maybe a UConn or Notre Dame, that would add some legitimacy, but they didn't go that direction.

Slick93
10-15-2009, 11:08 AM
Can't agree more with you guys. No way do they deserve even the slightest consideration for the BCS title game. If they go undefeated, I'm wiith rev, give them a BCS game but not the nat'l title. Heck let them play UF in the Sugar Bowl or something lol. Seeing as how hopefully Bama gets it right this yr and beats UF for the SEC title.

Steeler in Carolina
11-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I agree that they should not play in the BCS title game, but in their defense, not one single school would go to Boise and play them. The odds are going to always be stacked against them. Heck, Florida won't even go out of the state of Florida to play anyone non conference.

Steelboy84
11-07-2009, 06:25 PM
Oh, it won't happen.

Alabama/FLA vs. Texas.

Nadroj 20
11-07-2009, 11:37 PM
I really hope to see cincy slide in the National Championship but it probably wont happen.

Aussie_steeler
11-08-2009, 04:56 AM
Oregons loss tonight hasnt helped the Boise case.

If Oregon went the rest of the season without losing ( other than to Boise) then an interesting debate would have erupted. How would you have separate an undefeated Boise State and a one loss Oregon. It would have to come down to who Oregon lost to (Boise). That scenario would have created maximum chaos for the BCS.

Looks like that problem was solved by Stanford.

Definitely looks like a Bama / Florida vs Texas game now.

revefsreleets
11-09-2009, 10:04 AM
You know, it's nice to see some conferences let the teams play it out on the field. There IS parity in college football. Sometimes a Stanford BEATS a USC or Oregen. Sometimes a Purdue beats an Ohio State, or a Northwestern upsets an undefeated Iowa. These things happen in conference play...sometimes Arkansas beats Florida....OH....WHOOPS!

Nope, not the last. And the worst part is, the SEC East is so weak this year that Florida was still going to play in the SEC championship game win or lose against Arkansas, which makes the refs handing them the win even more transparent.

Only hope is that Bama wins the conference Championship so a legitimate SEC team plays in the big game.

revefsreleets
11-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Well, still shaping up to be that Florida/Texas match-up.

Florida could beat Bama, but Nebraska ain't beating UT.

That is NOT good for those of us pushing for a playoff...Texas and Florida/Bama clearly play a lot tougher SOS than either Cinci, TCU or Boise, so there is no controversy.

Steeler in Carolina
11-30-2009, 08:21 PM
While Texas has been great this year, they really have not played that tough a schedule. This is why we need a playoff. TCU, Boise, or Cincy doesn't get a chance to prove anything.

revefsreleets
12-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Granted, the Big 12 ain't what it has been, it's still a legit BCS conference with some pretty good football teams. Their OOC schedule was iffy, but I didn't see any D1-AA teams on it...and they played OK with Bradford still at QB (although he was knocked out of the game), and with Bradford playing QB Oklahoma is a MUCH better team.

I'm reasonably sure that TCU or Boise would have taken a loss or two had they played in the Big 12, even this year...

Bubby Blister
12-01-2009, 10:17 AM
This is like when a dog chases his tail...

Every year we talk about a smaller conference school who gets snubbed because they're not in the big conferences. Yawn.

Notre Dame should lead the break from the NCAA and start its own playoff system which includes the top 16 teams who are not from the Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, PAC 10 and ACC. Let those five conferences have their boring bowls. A 6-6 Northwestern can play a 6-6 Kentucky in the Slim Jim Redneck Bowl.

Eventually, when nobody watches these bowl games, the big conference will join the newly established system. The No One Cares Bowl will just have to close up shop.

The championship game will feature Boise State against TCU in the Snow Bowl in Cleveland, Ohio.

revefsreleets
12-02-2009, 09:08 AM
I'm not talking about those schools getting snubbed....I'm saying that's exactly what they deserve.

Also, I actually like having college football bowl games to watch....some of these less-than-marquee match-ups are often quite good. As a football fan, I love having more football to watch.

I want an 8 team playoff, but I also want to KEEP most of these bowl games. It gives mid-tier teams something to play for. Not many people give a crap about things like the Motor City Bowl or whatever, but for my alma mater that's a VERY big deal and is something to strive for...

SteelersinCA
12-02-2009, 01:15 PM
No matter what, you will always have discussions of people getting snubbed, it's a fact of life. I, for one, think these things play themselves out just fine. So we have a UT vs UF/Bama NC game, does anyone else really deserve to play in that game? Not even close. Let TCU/Cincy/BSU play the loser of the UF bama game in a bowl and let's see if they win, then we might have a discussion. Otherwise this year is easy for the NC game.

Now the rest of the BCS bowls is where it gets muddy. I'll stand by my assertion that 2 loss teams should not get bowl bids over undefeated teams regardless of conference.

revefsreleets
12-02-2009, 01:58 PM
No matter what, you will always have discussions of people getting snubbed, it's a fact of life. I, for one, think these things play themselves out just fine. So we have a UT vs UF/Bama NC game, does anyone else really deserve to play in that game? Not even close. Let TCU/Cincy/BSU play the loser of the UF bama game in a bowl and let's see if they win, then we might have a discussion. Otherwise this year is easy for the NC game.

Now the rest of the BCS bowls is where it gets muddy. I'll stand by my assertion that 2 loss teams should not get bowl bids over undefeated teams regardless of conference.

I totally get where you are coming from, but let's break that down a little more. For sake of argument, let's take the Rose Bowl. It's almost a certainty that Oregon will play OSU in the game. Both are two loss teams. Both not only played their conference schedules (not going to discuss the relative strength of that schedule because it can't be controlled), BUT also played at least one serious, legitimate OOC game (which both lost, which shows just how legitimate those OOC teams were).

In many respects, they did everything right, even thought it kind of runs counter to BCS logic....and your position could possible see both teams replaced with a possible undefeated TCU/Boise St or Cinci match-up (please play along with the hypothetical here).

What does a TCU/Boise St match-up tell us? Does it REALLY answer any questions? It's two teams with super soft in conference schedules (one of which, TCU played pretty much NOBODY in OR out of conference, all year).

I could agree with maybe a two loss Oregon versus TCU and a two loss OSU versus Boise, but eliminating the two BCS teams that did everything right simply because they lost two games seems wrong to me.

SteelersinCA
12-02-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't mean to suggest they play each other. Let TCU play someone and let BSU play someone else. I think 1 over arching theme should be if you go undefeated you get a huge reward. If OSU goes undefeated they go to the NC, is it so much to ask that if a NonBCS conference team goes undefeated they get to go to a BCS bowl? I don't think.

However, I disagree that Oregon and OSU did everything right, they have 2 losses. If they had just 1 loss the ooc game then I think I would be more torn. They didn't win the OOC game and dropped one in conference as well. I think that should get you bumped.

revefsreleets
12-02-2009, 02:31 PM
Bumped how?

There are 8 open slots for BCS (non-championship) games. After this weekend, there will only be 4 or 5 undefeated teams, and at most, 2 teams with one loss.

One loss IS relevant. If you play in a non-BCS conference, with NO strong OOC games, how would that make you more BCS bowl worthy than a two-loss BCS team who DID play a strong OOC schedule.

I think it's close to right in the current system. One undefeated team will be locked out if things play out as expected (TCU or Boise State), and that's not right, but otherwise it is almost a certainty that the top 10 teams will play in the BCS bowls and championship game.

I go back to what Pete Carroll said. The team with the best RECORD is not necessarily the best team.

That's why we need an 8 team playoff. You can lose one or even two games and still have shot. Now, one loss means you're sort of screwed and two losses means you are out.

SteelersinCA
12-02-2009, 06:36 PM
I agree one loss is relevant if you are a non BCS team, however we don't have any 1 loss non BCS teams. Don't forget Cincy is in a BCS conference. At this point we don't even have any 1 loss BCS teams. The concept is simple, an undefeated team should get to play in a BCS bowl over ANY 2 loss team. I realize the reality of that is not such, but that doesn't stop me from advancing what I consider to be a very legitimate argument. It really boils down to this; I think as it stands right this very instant, TCU and BSU both deserve a BCS bowl more than Oregon and OSU.

Steeler in Carolina
12-02-2009, 08:41 PM
This is how they BCS bowls should shakeout in my opinion:

Ohio St
Pac 10 champ
ACC champ
Texas
Florida
Alabama
TCU
Boise St
Big East Champ
This is 9 teams, so there is still 1 more team going. If Boise State gets shut out of a BCS bowl it is a crime. Who else should go before them?

Steeler in Carolina
12-02-2009, 08:43 PM
One more thing, people bash TCU's schedule, but they did beat Clemson at Clemson and they may end up as the ACC champs.

Steeler in Carolina
12-02-2009, 08:44 PM
One other thing, these non BCS schools don't stand a chance. No top BCS schools is going to play them on a level playing ground. No top team will ever go to Boise to play.

revefsreleets
12-04-2009, 11:08 AM
Well, for one, TCU playing Clemson = one real win for TCU. There's really no team in their conference worth mentioning other than maybe BYU. Second, the ACC is kind of a jokey football conference. Clemson is 8-4, and if they lose to GT in the ACC CG, they'll be 8-5. So how much weight should we really lend to that one win?

As for the argument that nobody plays Boise at Boise, well, Oregon did this year. The problem with scheduling home/away series with legit big BCS conference teams is that "The Blue" only holds 32,000. No way a USC or OSU or Alabama is going on the road to play in a 32,000 seat venue.

Finally, the "gateway", IMO for non-BCS schools to play in a BCS game is HEAVY OOC scheduling, even if they have to do it on the road, and an undefeated schedule both OOC and in conference. Boise? Oregon was tough, but the rest of the OOC was Bowling Green, Miami (OH), and UC Davis, which I believe is a D1-aa school. FAIL.

TCU? Virginia and Clemson are better, but they also padded their scheule with D1-aa Texas State. FAIL.

SteelersinCA
12-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Schedules are made years in advance, non BCS teams usually have a good year and fade away into nothingness. Your theory suggests they schedule USC, OSU, UT, UF, etc annually. Those teams can only play so many people. They scheduled Clemson, Clemson is usually a decent football team and when the schedule was made they were almost assuredly a top 25 team. Similarly BSU played Oregon and won! OSU, USC, UT usually schedule only 1 strong ooc game. That's exactly what BSU and TCU did, it's no different. If you say you can't control the conference schedule than let's not talk about it. Essentially, since they didn't schedule a top 5 football power you want them to be punished by not going to a BCS game. That hardly seems fair. They have a quality win AND WENT UNDEFEATED. Something neither OSU or Oregon did.

BSU beat a team ranked higher than OSU, being Oregon, and higher than any team OSU beat. I would say their 1 quality win is superior to any OSU has on its resume this year. Clemson is a top 25 team and that's not too far off from a #20 USC, OSU squeaked by an Iowa team without their starting QB, and I have no clue in the world how Penn State is ranked so higher. (If anyone can clue me in I'd love it, their Strength of schedule is in the bottom 20 and they beat NO ONE) so I'm not sure the quality win argument holds much water their either. Then take into account they went undefeated and again we arrive back at they deserve it more than Oregon and OSU. How can you put Oregon in a BCS game over BSU when BSU beat them?!

I just don't see why if conference schedule can't be helped, why they should schedule more than 1 strong OOC game in order to just GET INTO a BCS game, when 1 strong OOC game gets a BCS school into the NC game? If that's what it takes to get into a BCS game how would a non BCS school get into the NC game. There is nothing left after your logic runs its course. Keep in mind BSU didn't just beat the potential Rose Bowl champ, they humiliated them. However, arguing that Oregon, or conversely OSU deserve to be in a BCS game over a team that beat one of those schools kind of ends after that very statement.

revefsreleets
12-06-2009, 10:52 AM
You simply cannot ignore in-conference schedules like that. Ten years from now the Mountain West conference will still be a joke, and these teams KNOW better than to schedule D1-AA teams if they want serious bowl consideration. If we go back to the premise that D-1 team should be penalized for padding schedules against subdivision cupcakes, well, there ya go...the penalty is that they get skipped over by bigger programs with tougher in-conference schedules who ALSO schedule tough OOC games and DO NOT play subdivision teams.

i.e. Oregon and OSU =more deserving of BCS on EVERY count but record.
-They are BCS conference teams.
-FAR tougher in-conference grinds
-Just as tough OOC games
-NO D1-AA teams

I'm sorry, but TCU and Boise have GOT to schedule consistently harder OOC opponents to make up the slack for their absolute joke of a natural in-conference schedule they play if they want consideration. That, or try to move into a tougher conference, OR go independent.

Bottom line is TCU and Boise will both grab a BCS game this year, and they may even face each other (hearing that Fiesta is looking at the match-up). That's a big win for them, and, given their present situations and all the other circumstances outlined above, is as good as it's going to get for either program.

Nadroj 20
12-06-2009, 10:56 AM
You simply cannot ignore in-conference schedules like that. Ten years from now the Mountain West conference will still be a joke, and these teams KNOW better than to schedule D1-AA teams if they want serious bowl consideration. If we go back to the premise that D-1 team should be penalized for padding schedules against subdivision cupcakes, well, there ya go...the penalty is that they get skipped over by bigger programs with tougher in-conference schedules who ALSO schedule tough OOC games and DO NOT play subdivision teams.

i.e. Oregon and OSU =more deserving of BCS on EVERY count but record.
-They are BCS conference teams.
-FAR tougher in-conference grinds
-Just as tough OOC games
-NO D1-AA teams

I'm sorry, but TCU and Boise have GOT to schedule consistently harder OOC opponents to make up the slack for their absolute joke of a natural in-conference schedule they play if they want consideration. That, or try to move into a tougher conference, OR go independent.

Bottom line is TCU and Boise will both grab a BCS game this year, and they may even face each other (hearing that Fiesta is looking at the match-up). That's a big win for them, and, given their present situations and all the other circumstances outlined above, is as good as it's going to get for either program.

If TCU and Boise State do play against each other i think id be leaning toward TCU, but thats just me.

revefsreleets
12-06-2009, 11:01 AM
I actually don't like the match-up because it answers no questions...I want to see both these teams, at the end of the season when every team is bringing their A game, against top BCS competition.

Nadroj 20
12-06-2009, 11:07 AM
I actually don't like the match-up because it answers no questions...I want to see both these teams, at the end of the season when every team is bringing their A game, against top BCS competition.

True, this would show what they can do against the tougher teams.

SteelersinCA
12-06-2009, 02:04 PM
You simply cannot ignore in-conference schedules like that. Ten years from now the Mountain West conference will still be a joke, and these teams KNOW better than to schedule D1-AA teams if they want serious bowl consideration. If we go back to the premise that D-1 team should be penalized for padding schedules against subdivision cupcakes, well, there ya go...the penalty is that they get skipped over by bigger programs with tougher in-conference schedules who ALSO schedule tough OOC games and DO NOT play subdivision teams.

i.e. Oregon and OSU =more deserving of BCS on EVERY count but record.
-They are BCS conference teams.
-FAR tougher in-conference grinds
-Just as tough OOC games
-NO D1-AA teams

I'm sorry, but TCU and Boise have GOT to schedule consistently harder OOC opponents to make up the slack for their absolute joke of a natural in-conference schedule they play if they want consideration. That, or try to move into a tougher conference, OR go independent.

Bottom line is TCU and Boise will both grab a BCS game this year, and they may even face each other (hearing that Fiesta is looking at the match-up). That's a big win for them, and, given their present situations and all the other circumstances outlined above, is as good as it's going to get for either program.

Only reason I said ignore it was because I was operating on the premise you stated earlier that we ignore in conference strength of schedule because it cannot be controlled. There is no premise that they get penalized for scheduling D1-AA teams. Who gets penalized, perhaps if it were set up that way, maybe. As it stands right here right now, there is no such penalty.

Last I checked, plenty of of FBS teams play FCS teams, UM, UF to name 2. Again, I'm not sure there is much validity to that argument. I would also surmise that many of the top FCS teams could handle the lower half of the FBS teams with ease. So simply saying you schedule a cream puff from the MAC, the WAC or the MWC over a FCS team doesn't automatically get you a pass in my analysis. Take into consideration the Big 10's miserable bowl and out of conference record in the past few years, I'm not sure you can just summarily state they have a tougher in conference schedule.

How can you ignore the fact that Boise beat Oregon? Is that not the ultimate test of who is more deserving?

revefsreleets
12-06-2009, 02:30 PM
Only reason I said ignore it was because I was operating on the premise you stated earlier that we ignore in conference strength of schedule because it cannot be controlled. There is no premise that they get penalized for scheduling D1-AA teams. Who gets penalized, perhaps if it were set up that way, maybe. As it stands right here right now, there is no such penalty.

Last I checked, plenty of of FBS teams play FCS teams, UM, UF to name 2. Again, I'm not sure there is much validity to that argument. I would also surmise that many of the top FCS teams could handle the lower half of the FBS teams with ease. So simply saying you schedule a cream puff from the MAC, the WAC or the MWC over a FCS team doesn't automatically get you a pass in my analysis. Take into consideration the Big 10's miserable bowl and out of conference record in the past few years, I'm not sure you can just summarily state they have a tougher in conference schedule.

How can you ignore the fact that Boise beat Oregon? Is that not the ultimate test of who is more deserving?

OK, Boise beat Oregon. I remember when Florida and FSU played as 1 and 2 in the regular season in 96. FSU won the game like 24-20 or something like that.

They met in the NCG a few weeks later and Florida DESTROYED FSU by 30.

Yes, Boise beat Oregon...WAY back in September. So, what do you want, then, Boise and TCU in the Rose Bowl?

OK, well, the Fiesta will just snap up Oregon (close proximity) and OSU (great history playing in Glendale).

I also cannot ignore the fact that Boise and TCU play in shitty conferences. If they truly want to play in national championship games, they need to address that. Move. Go Independent. Load up on OOC games. DO SOMETHING about it. Right now, their current course of action seems to be complaining.

SteelersinCA
12-06-2009, 04:18 PM
No, I have already covered this, I don't want them playing each other, I don't care where or who they play as long as they are in. My only point is that both those teams deserve to be in more than OSU and Oregon. Now everyone will be in thanks to the way it played out. I'm just enjoying the way the season unfolded, 2 BCS busters who will make some noise and UC being the best team in OH. This thread has run it's course; BSU and TCU are both in BCS games, end of story.

Steeler in Carolina
12-06-2009, 06:09 PM
They both deserve BCS games. Say whatever you want against their schedules, but they both finished unbeaten and deserve BCS games.

revefsreleets
12-07-2009, 09:44 AM
Never said they didn't. In fact, I'd like to see them matched up against other teams...see how good they really are.

I know this. Cincinnati will be DESTROYED by Florida. The Bearcats don't play defense, and Florida's defense is far and away the best they seen this year.

If it was up to me, I'd have Cinci play Boise, Oregon play Florida, and OSU play TCU.

Steeler in Carolina
12-07-2009, 06:42 PM
I like your matchups. I was hoping to see TCU and Boise take down BCS teams, but the BCS fixed it so they couldn't.

revefsreleets
12-09-2009, 04:10 PM
I like your matchups. I was hoping to see TCU and Boise take down BCS teams, but the BCS fixed it so they couldn't.

Boise could take down Cincy...not sure about any of the others (and I think Oregon would destroy them in a re-match).

TCU is a seriously good football team. They could beat anybody but Bama IMO...