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View Full Version : Pennsylvania Firefighter Suspended for U.S. Flag on Locker


Galax Steeler
10-18-2009, 07:26 AM
A Pennslyvania firefighter was suspended without pay for refusing to remove an American flag sticker from his locker, Myfoxphilly.com reported.

James Krapf of Chester, Pa., violated a department policy that states personal items can only be posted inside employee lockers when he stuck the flag on the outside. According to Myfoxphilly.com, the firefighters' union warned 11 others to remove personal items or face similar suspensions, all without pay.

The initial ban came after an incident in which some firefighters complained about a cartoon posted in the firehouse that they found racially offensive.

Krapf was suspended Thursday, and so far is the only firefighter to be hit with the penalty.

"I shouldn't have to remove the flag of the country I believe in. I love my country," Krapf told Myfoxphilly.com. "I love my job. I love helping people. I've been doing this 11 years in the City of Chester, so this is something I love to do."

Krapf said he wants to meet with the fire commissioner and the mayor to discuss the issue. The fire commissioner told local media outlets that banning all materials from locker doors was the simplest way to avoid bickering among the staff.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,568221,00.html?test=latestnews

HometownGal
10-18-2009, 08:13 AM
If this is indeed true, I smell the rotten stench of an ACLU lawyer coming. :poop:

revefsreleets
10-18-2009, 08:17 AM
Another example of PC run amok, this time flying in the face of common sense...

Preacher
10-18-2009, 10:59 AM
Actually, I gotta say I agree that he should have been fined.

It seems that it was a rule that NOTHING is on the front of the locker. Nothing means nothing.

St33lersguy
10-18-2009, 11:08 AM
This is America, not Russia, China, Iran or one of those other communist anti-american slob countries, this is America, the land of the free. Getting suspended for hanging a U.S. flag in america is super ridiculous

devilsdancefloor
10-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Actually, I gotta say I agree that he should have been fined.

It seems that it was a rule that NOTHING is on the front of the locker. Nothing means nothing.

well i think th erule was made to stop the tits and ass being shown on lockers i would guess. this could have been ignored.

SteelTalons
10-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Actually, I gotta say I agree that he should have been fined.

It seems that it was a rule that NOTHING is on the front of the locker. Nothing means nothing.

Thats how I feel about it. Had nothing to do with the fact it was an American Flag and everything to do with the fact he stuck SOMETHING on the outside of the locker when he had already been told not to. Period.

They are tryna keep the place tidy and professional looking as all workplaces try to(for the most part), and having shit plastered on the front of everything doesn't fit with that objective.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 11:38 AM
well i think th erule was made to stop the tits and ass being shown on lockers i would guess. this could have been ignored.

The problem with it being ignored, is that you then enter a gray area of what is and is not "ok." The second something is not "ok", you open yourself up to charges of favoritism.

maybe the rule will be changed a bit and grace shown here. But that probably won't happen. Common sense dictates american flags should be Ok, as well as state flags in a firehouse.

But it won't be, because if you allow that, then why not an irish flag, italian flag, or kenyan flag? That is what they are avoiding.

Personally, I think a clean "nothing on the front" rule makes it simple.

revefsreleets
10-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Suspension is WAY too harsh a penalty...

Preacher
10-18-2009, 11:53 AM
Suspension is WAY too harsh a penalty...

Unless it was a 4th or 5th time... Or it has been a RANCOROUS issue... and the punishment was explicit with the order up front, I completely agree.

X-Terminator
10-19-2009, 10:54 AM
Thats how I feel about it. Had nothing to do with the fact it was an American Flag and everything to do with the fact he stuck SOMETHING on the outside of the locker when he had already been told not to. Period.

They are tryna keep the place tidy and professional looking as all workplaces try to(for the most part), and having shit plastered on the front of everything doesn't fit with that objective.

No, actually the rule was in place because someone posted a racially insensitive cartoon on his/her locker, and other firefighters complained. Had nothing to do with keeping the place neat and tidy.

SteelersMongol
10-20-2009, 09:08 PM
Actually, I gotta say I agree that he should have been fined.

It seems that it was a rule that NOTHING is on the front of the locker. Nothing means nothing.

:thumbsup: Gotta go with Preacher on this 1. Nothing means nothing. I'm sure no could ever question the Americans patriotism, especially when it comes 2 the military servicemen, police officers, or firefighters in America. & I'm guessing there must B at least 1 or 2 US flags somewhere in that fire department. So I don't think that was really necessary 2 place the flag on his locker 2 show what he loves or believes in.

NJarhead
10-20-2009, 09:48 PM
Maybe it's my military training, but "When your told the rules and warned to abide them" I don't care if it was a picture of his dead mother, rules is rules!

I agree. I'm a Marine and about as patriotic as an American can be, but he knew the rules. It's a dumb rule, but it needs to be enforced 100% for it to be taken seriously thanks to dumb people. The fireman was dumb to push the issue.

revefsreleets
10-21-2009, 07:46 AM
The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Read again:

the firefighters' union warned 11 others to remove personal items or face similar suspensions, all without pay.

The initial ban came after an incident in which some firefighters complained about a cartoon posted in the firehouse that they found racially offensive.

Krapf was suspended Thursday, and so far is the only firefighter to be hit with the penalty.

A) The racially offensive posting MAY be grounds for suspension. That firefighter was not suspended.
B) Others had things on their lockers after this was enacted. They were not suspended.
C) Suspension for personal items is to high a price to pay. Racial stuff is a different story.
D) Suspension for an American Flag is ridiculous.

Rules may indeed be rules, but you don't chop someone's head off for jaywalking...

As I said, PC run amok, and this flies in the face of common sense.

The_WARDen
10-21-2009, 07:50 AM
Why is this news? He violated company policy. Next!

Twizted
10-21-2009, 07:52 AM
Thats how I feel about it. Had nothing to do with the fact it was an American Flag and everything to do with the fact he stuck SOMETHING on the outside of the locker when he had already been told not to. Period.

They are tryna keep the place tidy and professional looking as all workplaces try to(for the most part), and having shit plastered on the front of everything doesn't fit with that objective.

I think I'm on the same page as you. I get that there was to be absolutely nothing on the outside of the locker. I just think it's odd that it happened to be the American flag that was in question. That's what is going to get a lot of people riled up. I guess I can see both sides with valid points. Fact is though, no matter what it was he was going to be asked to take it down whether it be the American flag or if it were a Steeler flag lol.

revefsreleets
10-21-2009, 08:12 AM
Did you guys re-read? There were ELEVEN other people who had things that were NOT the American flag on their lockers that were NOT suspended.

I can only interpret this one way: He was suspended NOT because he broke the rules, but because he had an American flag on his locker.

Twizted
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Did you guys re-read? There were ELEVEN other people who had things that were NOT the American flag on their lockers that were NOT suspended.

I can only interpret this one way: He was suspended NOT because he broke the rules, but because he had an American flag on his locker.

The only thing with that...did the other 11 take there stuff down when told to do so? This guy apparently wasn't taking his down. That would be my only question, maybe they took whatever they had up down when told to do so and this guy didn't.

X-Terminator
10-21-2009, 09:10 AM
The only thing with that...did the other 11 take there stuff down when told to do so? This guy apparently wasn't taking his down. That would be my only question, maybe they took whatever they had up down when told to do so and this guy didn't.

I'm going to assume that the others did, and thus were not suspended. The article said "so far," so it's also possible that there will be more suspensions. I do agree with revs in that I don't understand why the firefighter who had the racially offensive cartoon on his locker was not suspended. You'd think that would be an automatic suspension, especially in today's society.

NJarhead
10-21-2009, 02:56 PM
Did you guys re-read? There were ELEVEN other people who had things that were NOT the American flag on their lockers that were NOT suspended.

I can only interpret this one way: He was suspended NOT because he broke the rules, but because he had an American flag on his locker.

Did they not remove these items when they were told of the consequences? This guy tried to fight the system and lost.

Steelerstrength
10-21-2009, 03:07 PM
The video that was taken at the Fire Station shows his locker, and states that multiple US flags are hung throughout the station. Kinda shoots down the argument that showing his patriotism is above the clearly stated rules.

Although the suspension seems harsh, I wonder how many warnings are required to gain compliance?!