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Preacher
10-18-2009, 04:40 PM
On that first down late in the first half...

Does anyone know how it was rule a first down? I am still confused by that one. Is it the chain link...the poll, or what?

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 04:47 PM
If it's the chain link, I think we squeaked it in.

Would like to know the official answer to that one myself.

theplatypus
10-18-2009, 04:48 PM
It must have been the camera angle. I can't imagine that anyone could screw that up.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Yeah, I was getting ready to hit the fast forward button to get through half time, and all of a sudden, we have the ball again!

Neil-Still-Rules-14
10-18-2009, 04:57 PM
It was a bad angle on the camera, but a better ?? is do you have to carry the ball to the bench for a catch to be a TD?
I think you do. Both Ward's and Sweed's drops in the endzone would have been TDs a few years ago.

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 04:57 PM
It was a bad angle on the camera, but a better ?? is do you have to carry the ball to the bench for a catch to be a TD?

I'm sure Hines will next time. :coffee:

Steeldude
10-18-2009, 05:07 PM
ball was past the chain. it's also a 1st down if the ball is even with the chain link.

it's the chain link, not the post.

BlastFurnace
10-18-2009, 05:12 PM
They said the ref got on his knees to see if the ball went far enough...apparently it did.

Personally, I think we got away with one.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 05:16 PM
ball was past the chain. it's also a 1st down if the ball is even with the chain link.

it's the chain link, not the post.

:link: :chuckle:

Actually, If you have a link, I would love to read the rule myself... it is something I have never seen, watching football on and off for 30+ years. Fascinating.

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 05:17 PM
They said the ref got on his knees to see if the ball went far enough...apparently it did.

Personally, I think we got away with one.

Well, they took it away in the endzone. :banging:

BlastFurnace
10-18-2009, 05:22 PM
Well, they took it away in the endzone. :banging:

I agree with you there.

Psyychoward86
10-18-2009, 05:22 PM
i'm assuming by the angle we got it. Otherwise, i'm also puzzled myself

willie_district
10-18-2009, 05:32 PM
On that first down late in the first half...

Does anyone know how it was rule a first down? I am still confused by that one. Is it the chain link...the poll, or what?

I think this will end up on Official Review on Wed. night. If you're not familiar with it, Official Review is a segment of NFLTA on NFL Network where the head of officiating talks about the week's controversial calls.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
10-18-2009, 06:03 PM
Not to sound like a whiner but, I thought that was a horrible call and just seemed really fishy.

The browns lost fair and square, yeah, but I think that call was questionable.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad76/suns_2009/36992739-e66a4d51e6ec9056aa6f505e28.jpg

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Not to sound like a whiner but, I thought that was a horrible call and just seemed really fishy.

The browns lost fair and square, yeah, but I think that call was questionable.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad76/suns_2009/36992739-e66a4d51e6ec9056aa6f505e28.jpg

Its not whining when you have a legit complaint...it appeared to be a bad call.

tyler289
10-18-2009, 06:05 PM
I don't know how the officials blew that one.

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Not to sound like a whiner but, I thought that was a horrible call and just seemed really fishy.

The browns lost fair and square, yeah, but I think that call was questionable.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad76/suns_2009/36992739-e66a4d51e6ec9056aa6f505e28.jpg

Well, if the rules says the end of the chain, then there's no question we got it.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 06:24 PM
I don't know how the officials blew that one.

I've been thinking about this some more. How many times have we seen them put the sticks down, and have it be about a half inch off from the stick... and it be called 4th down?

Jmat
10-18-2009, 06:25 PM
I was reading a couple of of the Browns boards. They are apoplectic over that first down call.
I can't say that I wouldn't be pissed off if it were the Steelers it happened to but then again you have to overcome bad calls.
I have never seen that happen before in any game.

But then again the Browns players and coaches didn't seem to argue the call.

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 06:27 PM
I was reading a couple of of the Browns boards. They are apoplectic over that first down call.
I can't say that I wouldn't be pissed ofif it were the Steelers it happened too but then again you have to overcome bad calls.
I have never seen that happen before in any game.

Who ever that coach was on the Browns side was sure vocal about it. :chuckle:

Tomlin must know the rule because he called it.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
10-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Who ever that coach was on the Browns side was sure vocal about it. :chuckle:

Tomlin must know the rule because he called it.

Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan's son, Rex's twin.

I'm curious, do you guys think that the Browns will eventually get better? I sort of blame this loss on a lack of talent on both sides and poor offensive play calling.

Notice how when D'Qwell was injured and the rookie Kaluka Maiava came in you guys just started toying with us? Dude missed so many assignments it wasn't even funny.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan's son, Rex's twin.

I'm curious, do you guys think that the Browns will eventually get better? I sort of blame this loss on a lack of talent on both sides and poor offensive play calling.

Notice how when D'Qwell was injured and the rookie Kaluka Maiava came in you guys just started toying with us? Dude missed so many assignments it wasn't even funny.

yeah, he was just a bit ticked. :chuckle:

The Browns won't get better until they get a decent coach, and then give him CONTROL of the team for about 5 years and JOB SAFETY with it.

The back and forth with BQ and DA is killing you guys. Pick a guy, stick with him, build the team around him.

stillers4me
10-18-2009, 06:41 PM
Quarterback and WR are huge issues for the Browns. And that's just for starters.

We have a good friend that's a Brown's fan. Hat's off to you guys for not jumping on someon else's bandwagon. Stay die hard. :drink:

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan's son, Rex's twin.

I'm curious, do you guys think that the Browns will eventually get better? I sort of blame this loss on a lack of talent on both sides and poor offensive play calling.

Notice how when D'Qwell was injured and the rookie Kaluka Maiava came in you guys just started toying with us? Dude missed so many assignments it wasn't even funny.

Time to ditch Anderson and take the expected lumps with Quinn.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
10-18-2009, 06:50 PM
yeah, he was just a bit ticked. :chuckle:

The Browns won't get better until they get a decent coach, and then give him CONTROL of the team for about 5 years and JOB SAFETY with it.

The back and forth with BQ and DA is killing you guys. Pick a guy, stick with him, build the team around him.

I'd tend to agree with that. My idea is to pitch the role of Team President to someone like a Schottenheimer, Dungy, Cowher, Shanahan or a Holmgren and have them try and build the organization the way it's supposed to be run, and then hire a staff that is in agreement for one common goal.

Also, I'd venture to say that both QB's really are probably gone after this season. If we keep DA as a starter by this time next year I'll be shocked. Frankly, I'd rather see Cribbs at QB than either of those two at this point.


Quarterback and WR are huge issues for the Browns. And that's just for starters.

We have a good friend that's a Brown's fan. Hat's off to you guys for not jumping on someon else's bandwagon. Stay die hard. :drink:

WR, I'd tend to agree. Though I wonder if Robo and MoMass would look better WITH a different QB. I'd also like to see if getting a better TE, like a Heath Miller clone would help as well. BTW, I think that maybe your guys most underrated player.

It's hard, believe me. You guys really have it easy lol.. But someday it'll be worth it. When that day is?, I have no idea.

BlastFurnace
10-18-2009, 06:58 PM
Not to sound like a whiner but, I thought that was a horrible call and just seemed really fishy.

The browns lost fair and square, yeah, but I think that call was questionable.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad76/suns_2009/36992739-e66a4d51e6ec9056aa6f505e28.jpg

We definitely got a New England call on that one. I would be really upset if that call went against us. It's pretty clear cut to me.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Well...

Maybe that was finally payback for the Detroit coin flip... or for the Troy P. non-interception interception. :chuckle:

SteelersHoss
10-18-2009, 07:28 PM
It must have been the camera angle. I can't imagine that anyone could screw that up.

Ed Hocheley would have screwed that up

stb_steeler
10-18-2009, 07:33 PM
Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan's son, Rex's twin.

I'm curious, do you guys think that the Browns will eventually get better? I sort of blame this loss on a lack of talent on both sides and poor offensive play calling.

Notice how when D'Qwell was injured and the rookie Kaluka Maiava came in you guys just started toying with us? Dude missed so many assignments it wasn't even funny.

Theres always a chance for any team to get better, but dropped balls from the receivers in the past 4 games doesnt help the QB out at all. There were way to many dropped. Losing Edwards didnt help much either. I agree you need to stick with one guy and build around him. Maybe better draft picks and scouting may help.

CanadianSteel
10-18-2009, 07:54 PM
There was a wildcat play on second down i think ...where cribbs ran it and it had to be an easy yard and a half short.... so am getting amped for a big third down and I see first and ten Brownstains... anyone else catch that ... no idea how the ball got marked what appeared a full yard or more... Refs are plain awful all over the place...

Godfather
10-18-2009, 08:00 PM
Ed Hocheley would have screwed that up

Phil Luckett could have screwed it up too.

fansince'76
10-18-2009, 08:20 PM
There was a wildcat play on second down i think ...where cribbs ran it and it had to be an easy yard and a half short.... so am getting amped for a big third down and I see first and ten Brownstains... anyone else catch that ... no idea how the ball got marked what appeared a full yard or more... Refs are plain awful all over the place...

We've been getting lousy spots all season, so I'm not going to feel guilty about possibly benefiting from it for a change.

devilsdancefloor
10-18-2009, 08:30 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

Im going with this since i deal with it on occasion :drink:

steelerchad
10-18-2009, 08:34 PM
That was definately a bad camera angle. If you DVR'd the game look how the camera is looking diagonal across the yard markers instead of straight down them.
That angle showed space in between the post and the ball. If the angle had been straight I'm sure we would have seen that the tip of the ball was at the post.

MasterOfPuppets
10-18-2009, 08:49 PM
the chain itself is 10 yards, not the eye bolts and poles.they go by the chain links.

Indo
10-18-2009, 08:53 PM
the chain itself is 10 yards, not the eye bolts and poles.they go by the chain links.

I thought that was the case, but I can't find a link that says this---do you have a link?

devilsdancefloor
10-18-2009, 09:07 PM
I thought that was the case, but I can't find a link that says this---do you have a link?

i looked for a link but all i got was browns forums lol so i gave up might take a look later on or tomorrow, butr i did look at some browns forums and found out that the economy is bad and steelers stuff sells well so that is why it happend.:doh::doh:

Preacher
10-18-2009, 09:11 PM
the chain itself is 10 yards, not the eye bolts and poles.they go by the chain links.

I was thinking about that. However, i can't say how many times I have seen a measurement, and the nose of the ball seems to be just before the stick itself, and it isn't a 1st down.

Hmmm. I wish we could find an official rule or something.

fansince'76
10-18-2009, 09:16 PM
i looked for a link but all i got was browns forums lol so i gave up might take a look later on or tomorrow, butr i did look at some browns forums and found out that the economy is bad and steelers stuff sells well so that is why it happend.:doh::doh:

So does the crappy economy and the fact that Steelers gear sells well also explain why they got away with a blatant hold on Cribbs' kickoff return for a TD? :coffee:

PolamaluPower
10-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm still scratching my head on that one. I suppose it could've been a bad camera angle. I've looked through this website and I'm still without an answer:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/digestofrules

devilsdancefloor
10-18-2009, 10:24 PM
http://www.wizardsports.com/field-equipment.html


Pro Model Flip Down Indicator With Chain Sets

Available in yellow & black(special order) ( steelers need these for home games :tt02: )

Set includes: 8'6" padded chain poles with 16" padded bull's eyes and flourescent red banners. 7'6" down indicator with 12 1/2 flip over numbers. 10 yard chain. Contrasting third down indicator.
Part # WZ-69 Our Low Price $299.00


10 YARD REPLACEMENT CHAIN

Part # WZ-MSCHAIN Our Low Price $28.00


i cant find anything as of yet, but the above equipment calls out the "chain to be 10 yards.:noidea::noidea::noidea:

mesaSteeler
10-18-2009, 10:39 PM
Did referee's measurement give Steelers unearned points? Browns Insider
By Mary Kay Cabot
October 18, 2009, 9:08PM
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/10/did_referees_measurement_give.html

PITTSBURGH, Pa. -- The Browns were fuming on the field and on the sidelines after officials gave Ben Roethlisberger a first down on his fourth-and-1 sneak at the end of the first half.

They were positive they had stopped him, and a still photo of the spot certainly looked like he was short.

"Yeah, I thought it was short, but it was something that was out of our control," said cornerback Brandon McDonald. "All we can do is go with the call that the refs make and they made their call."

One of the players threw his arms up in frustration on the field and defensive coordinator Rob Ryan yelled from the sidelines. To no avail. The Steelers were awarded a first down at the Browns 13, and wound up with field goal that increased their lead to 17-7 with seven seconds left in the half.

It could've been worse. Two plays before the kick, Hines Ward caught a 13-yard touchdown pass in the end zone over Mike Adams, but the replay assistant challenged and it was overturned. The explanation was that Ward didn't maintain control of the ball on the catch.

It also could've been better for the Browns. McDonald dropped an interception in the end zone a play before the field goal.

"We could've gone into the half down seven instead of 10," McDonald said. "I've just got take advantage of those opportunities, especially if the ball is thrown right to you."

In a pool report, referee Walt Anderson said he stood by the measurement. He explained that "the ball has to penetrate the plane of the stake. The chains are set beside the football. So I get on the side and I'm looking straight in at that angle. If the nose of the ball touches the stake, it's a first down."

So how does he explain the photo, snapped off television, that indicated it was short?

"It depends on the angle you might be looking at," he said. "It touched the plane of the stake."

Injured shoulder: Linebacker D'Qwell Jackson left late in the second quarter with a shoulder injury and did not return. He's believed to have suffered it while a breaking up a pass in the end zone to Mewelde Moore.

"He'll see the doctors and get it checked out," said Eric Mangini.

Wimbley, Rogers sick: Kamerion Wimbley, added to injury report Saturday with the flu, made the trip in a separate vehicle but was sent home Sunday morning.

"He just couldn't do it," said Mangini. "It was disappointing not to have him today. Kam has had four sacks to date, he's done a nice job in the running game. In the passing game he could have helped us. ... The next guy in has to pick up whatever the difference is."

Wimbley was replaced by newcomer Jason Trusnik, the Nordonia High product.

Shaun Rogers was also sick, but not as bad as Wimbley at gametime. Afterward was another story. "I'm not feeling very good," he said.

"Shaun was playing pretty under the weather today," said Mangini. "I respect the things he did. He toughed it out."

Rogers was slapped with a 15-yard unsportmanlike conduct call in the fourth quarter for jawing with a Steelers lineman.

Taking it easy: Corey Williams responded to speculation that if any Browns were to be traded by Tuesday, it could be him. "I haven't heard anything about it, but if it happens, it happens," he said.

Bowens a machine: Linebacker David Bowens had his most active game as a Brown, sacking Roethlisberger on the Steelers' first drive and squashing the next drive by breaking up a pass 20 yards downfield to tight end Heath Miller.

He also recovered a third-quarter fumble by Rashard Mendenhall, broke up a pass, had a tackle for a loss, finished with seven tackles overall and applied the pressure on the pass that McDonald dropped in the end zone.

"Kam was out, D'Qwell was hurt," said Bowens. "I'm not a rah-rah guy particularly, I just want to lead by example. There were a lot of opportunities where I was able to make plays and I just did it."

Bowens was also flagged 15 yards for roughing Roethlisberger on the field goal drive at the end of the half.

"I'm not going to put me in the box against the referees," he said. "He made the call and we have to live with it."

Bowens can expect to get fined.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 10:46 PM
I found a 2006 rulebook and it simply did not say.

http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/2006%20NFL%20RULEBOOK.pdf

I think the official's manual might be of help, but can not find it.

Preacher
10-18-2009, 10:48 PM
Thanks mesa..

So, it must touch the post... and he thought it did.

Interesting.

mesaSteeler
10-18-2009, 10:58 PM
Thanks mesa..

So, it must touch the post... and he thought it did.

Interesting.

You are welcome.

steelreserve
10-18-2009, 11:03 PM
It was pretty obvious on the replay that the camera was about 20 yards up the field from the ball. We were looking at the measurement from behind.

Rotorhead
10-18-2009, 11:16 PM
It was a bad angle, but I didnt think it was that bad . . . ah well, we got the W so I am happy. FWIW the Browns lost thier golden opportunity after DA had his good year, they should have traded him or Quin the next season for picks (Everyone was hurting for a good QB the next season). That would have help with restocking and cofidence. I think they are both good QB's (look at the Cutler trade, Orton is doing well with good receivers) but need some better supporting staff. Pick one and move on if you want to get better.

tony hipchest
10-18-2009, 11:18 PM
i always thought the tip of the ball had to be able to touc h the black paint on the marker stick. if it ges by chain links there are about 5 different types of "links" linking the chain to the stick. im sure the league makes it this wy to give the patriots certain ambiguity call.

I'd tend to agree with that. My idea is to pitch the role of Team President to someone like a Schottenheimer, Dungy, Cowher, Shanahan or a Holmgren and have them try and build the organization the way it's supposed to be run, and then hire a staff that is in agreement for one common goal.

.unfortunately for you i think the browns are a long way from putting it together. if they dont get it right in 2-3 years (which they wont) they will just fire mankok and bring in a new regime which will see another new set of qb's and more #1 draft picks being cut, released via free agency (bye joe thmas) or traded.

i would say that cowher, shottenheimer, dungys strengths are more in sunday "between the white lines" coaching, as opposed to team building. if you cant land holmgren who actually has some experience in that area, there is always matt millen.


:chuckle:- ...couldnt resist.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-18-2009, 11:21 PM
It was pretty obvious on the replay that the camera was about 20 yards up the field from the ball. We were looking at the measurement from behind.

That's what I thought. Still pretty fun to watch Rob Ryan go ballistic. :chuckle:

toughsticks87
10-18-2009, 11:22 PM
I really do think the refs just have it back to us on the Hines call. The first that popped into my mind was "well, that was for the first down that shouldn't have happened." It'll be interesting to see what pops up about this as the week progresses.

Preacher
10-19-2009, 12:12 AM
I really do think the refs just have it back to us on the Hines call. The first that popped into my mind was "well, that was for the first down that shouldn't have happened." It'll be interesting to see what pops up about this as the week progresses.

No, that was the exact right call according to the rules. The ball actually came out and hit the ground. You gotta keep a hold of it until your momentum stops basically. . . and you have to have the ball in complete control.

toughsticks87
10-19-2009, 02:20 AM
No, that was the exact right call according to the rules. The ball actually came out and hit the ground. You gotta keep a hold of it until your momentum stops basically. . . and you have to have the ball in complete control.

I honestly get confused at times. That's what I thought, but then I hear once a player goes out of bounds its dead or something. I honestly don't know, and it seems at times like the announcers don't really know either. Meh, we won. I'll take that.

sharkweek
10-19-2009, 02:28 AM
The problem was going out of bounds, had he stayed in bounds he would have had a chance to secure the catch after momentum had stopped.

solardave
10-19-2009, 03:27 AM
I wasn't able to watch the game.I tracked it on NFL.com and if you've had to do it you know it's kinda like trying to read bad Braille. At least that's my observation. at one point they sad Ryan Clark intercepted the ball for a safety. I was wondering did he intercept in one the one and run back into the endzone or what? I caught a little bit of streaming video and then it got shut down. I'm glad next weeks game is on here. 2 weeks in a row and I'm already getting the shakes!!LOL

Galax Steeler
10-19-2009, 03:51 AM
It must have been the camera angle. I can't imagine that anyone could screw that up.

Bingo the angle from the camera. It was not directly in line with the ball. It made it look shorter then what it reall was.

fansince'76
10-19-2009, 07:36 AM
No, that was the exact right call according to the rules. The ball actually came out and hit the ground. You gotta keep a hold of it until your momentum stops basically. . . and you have to have the ball in complete control.

Is that why Knox's TD stood in the Bears/Falcons game? :noidea:

Bottom line, the officiating in the NFL sucks and gets worse every year. I'm getting tired of the fact that it only seems to become an "issue" in the media when the Steelers benefit from it, though.

scsteeler
10-19-2009, 08:30 AM
On that first down late in the first half...

Does anyone know how it was rule a first down? I am still confused by that one. Is it the chain link...the poll, or what?


The spot of the ball can be reviewed and it must have been another one of those plays overturned by the replay booth but never announced that would be my thought.

I thought we got a bad spot. Hopefully this was the case.

stillers4me
10-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Is that why Knox's TD stood in the Bears/Falcons game? :noidea:

Bottom line, the officiating in the NFL sucks and gets worse every year. I'm getting tired of the fact that it only seems to become an "issue" in the media when the Steelers benefit from it, though.

Your are so right . The officiating is getting worse and worse every year.

Dino 6 Rings
10-19-2009, 08:42 AM
It was a first because the Refs always cheat in favor of the Steelers and the NFL pays them extra to make calls that go our way....duh people.

:chuckle:

memphissteelergirl
10-19-2009, 08:48 AM
Bottom line, the officiating in the NFL sucks and gets worse every year. I'm getting tired of the fact that it only seems to become an "issue" in the media when the Steelers benefit from it, though.

Man, you ain't lying! Commentators just love making a meal of it when we seem to be benefitting from "suspect" officiating. :mad:

stlrtruck
10-19-2009, 09:07 AM
On that first down late in the first half...

Does anyone know how it was rule a first down? I am still confused by that one. Is it the chain link...the poll, or what?

Sorry preach but last time I checked, they don't hand out questionnaires or make phone calls to determine if it's afirst down but they may use the pole at the end of the chain to make such a determination! :flap:

Preacher
10-19-2009, 01:47 PM
Sorry preach but last time I checked, they don't hand out questionnaires or make phone calls to determine if it's afirst down but they may use the pole at the end of the chain to make such a determination! :flap:

:buttkick:

:chuckle:

I have no idea how the angle can be off THAT MUCH!?

I don't know, I think the refs just blew it on that call.

Preacher
10-19-2009, 01:49 PM
Is that why Knox's TD stood in the Bears/Falcons game? :noidea:

Bottom line, the officiating in the NFL sucks and gets worse every year. I'm getting tired of the fact that it only seems to become an "issue" in the media when the Steelers benefit from it, though.

I think I was sleeping during that part of the game!

It does seem that we are getting the more strict calls against us when it comes to catch a ball, etc. Then very lenient on holding when it is the other team against our defense.

stlrtruck
10-19-2009, 03:35 PM
:buttkick:

:chuckle:

I have no idea how the angle can be off THAT MUCH!?

I don't know, I think the refs just blew it on that call.

:chuckle:

I don't understand how they can screw that call up but they don't understand they're own definitions anymore. So until the commish brings integrity back to the game (not just in cheatriotville) it will continue to be the train wreck we know it as.

7SteelGal43
10-19-2009, 03:46 PM
Rob Ryan, Buddy Ryan's son, Rex's twin.

I'm curious, do you guys think that the Browns will eventually get better? I sort of blame this loss on a lack of talent on both sides and poor offensive play calling.

Notice how when D'Qwell was injured and the rookie Kaluka Maiava came in you guys just started toying with us? Dude missed so many assignments it wasn't even funny.

The main thing I noticed was the number of dropped passes by the Browns recievers. If those catchs are made, that'd be a huge difference.

stillers4me
10-19-2009, 03:54 PM
If they blew the call, why wasn't it challenged?

steelreserve
10-19-2009, 04:01 PM
:buttkick:

:chuckle:

I have no idea how the angle can be off THAT MUCH!?

I don't know, I think the refs just blew it on that call.

The field is only 50 yards wide. That means if the camera was 20 yards upfield, you'd be at about a 25 degree angle and see a gap of 2-3 inches if the chain is about half a foot away from the ball, like they say. Seems entirely possible to me, and it looked like that's where the camera was.

CPanther95
10-20-2009, 07:40 AM
If they blew the call, why wasn't it challenged?

That can't be challenged. You can challenge the spot, but if it is close, ultimately a manual measurement is needed to determine whether it is a first down.

lamberts-lost-tooth
10-20-2009, 07:52 AM
Is that why Knox's TD stood in the Bears/Falcons game? :noidea:


Your not kidding.....that was an AWFUL call.

Texasteel
10-20-2009, 08:05 AM
Bottom line, the officiating in the NFL sucks and gets worse every year. I'm getting tired of the fact that it only seems to become an "issue" in the media when the Steelers benefit from it, though.

Your right about that. I believe I've seen them move the ball a foot down the field for the NE. Pantywaist and not a word.

VinnySteel
10-20-2009, 09:29 AM
It was a bad camera angle. The front of the yardstick is flat and perpendicular to the ball. In the camera angle you see it most of its face. See the attached pic.

Texasteel
10-20-2009, 09:33 AM
It was a bad camera angle. The front of the yardstick is flat and perpendicular to the ball. In the camera angle you see it most of its face. See the attached pic.

As long as I have been a fan I hate to admit this, but.... What part of the marker signifies a 1st down.

Pittsky
10-20-2009, 10:14 AM
yeah, he was just a bit ticked. :chuckle:

The Browns won't get better until they get a decent coach, and then give him CONTROL of the team for about 5 years and JOB SAFETY with it.

The back and forth with BQ and DA is killing you guys. Pick a guy, stick with him, build the team around him.

rob ryan, guy with grey hair was freakin out...i was row F, 6 rows back... :drink:

Indo
10-20-2009, 10:15 AM
It was a bad camera angle. The front of the yardstick is flat and perpendicular to the ball. In the camera angle you see it most of its face. See the attached pic.

This is a good photo showing that the angle of the camera was not perpendicular to the 1st down marker


The rule, BTW, is that the forward edge of the ball has to be at or beyond the marker (pole)

Here are some descriptions located within a rules book. Not all of them are complete, but read through them and open the links---it's a good description of the rule

http://books.google.com/books?id=FjWh7ws2GZoC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=first+down+measurement&source=bl&ots=c-61oOK_0T&sig=dNBH3TiRXCoGrd2Y1A3FtqBrYcg&hl=en&ei=J83dSrDAB4Od8Aat6Pxy&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=first%20down%20measurement&f=false

There is a link just above the middle of the page that says "view all"

Indo
10-20-2009, 10:16 AM
guy with grey hair was freakin out...i was row F, 6 rows back... :drink:

That's Rex Ryan, their D-Coordinator

Pittsky
10-20-2009, 10:34 AM
That's Rex Ryan, their D-Coordinator

mmmm, rob ryan...rex ryan is his brother...jets :doh:

SteelMember
10-20-2009, 10:47 AM
I was thinking about that. However, i can't say how many times I have seen a measurement, and the nose of the ball seems to be just before the stick itself, and it isn't a 1st down.

Hmmm. I wish we could find an official rule or something.

I think we're all used to seeing the pole as the determining factor. And when I say pole, you can also notice that "the pole" is wrapped with foam, and that is what they typically go by. Also, there is plenty of room for error. When there is a measurement made, there is an intermediate marker between the poles, on the chain, where the measurement is actually established. Usually marking a hash mark. When the chains are streched, that is the point of origin, not the other pole.

I will treat this like Ben's TD in SBXL. We just had a bad angle.

We've been getting lousy spots all season, so I'm not going to feel guilty about possibly benefiting from it for a change.

I'm with you on this. I think the spot was bad in any case of the measurement.