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plenewken
10-19-2009, 08:15 AM
1) Maintain possession through the whole process:

I wonder how they could nullify Ward's TD. As far as I know, he was in the end zone with the ball firmly in his hands and it's only after he rolled on the ground twice and out of bounds that the ball kind of got loose, although he never lost it.

2) Penalty on punt or kick-off:

How come when there's a penalty on a kick-off or a punt, let's say a holding, the receiving team gets a 1st and 10 ten yards back and and not 1st and 20 where the ball was spotted?
Same with personal foul (15 yards instead of 10).

As far as I know, moving the ball 10 yards to get a 1st down is easier than moving it 20 or 25 yards, no?

KeiselPower99
10-19-2009, 08:16 AM
Did anyone see the Bears Falcons game? Knox of the Bears did not have control of the ball and was given the td. It wasnt even close compared to Hines.

stillers4me
10-19-2009, 08:25 AM
Pass interference and the offense gets the ball at the spot of the foul as if the receiver actually caught the ball. And that's a big assumption to me. Watch any Patriots* game. It gets called alot when Brady* is on the field.

plenewken
10-19-2009, 08:29 AM
Pass interference and the offense gets the ball at the spot of the foul as if the receiver actually caught the ball. And that's a big assumption to me. Doesn't that happen alot whrn Tom Brady* is on the field?

Yeah, that's another one. Time to bring back some sanity in the game. If it wasn't for instant replay through multiple angles, some rulings couldn't happen. How do they expect the zebras to see stuff than 3 or 4 cameras have a hard time catching?

Kvnfaber
10-19-2009, 08:32 AM
How about allowing fumbles to happen after forward progress is clearly stopped? Such as Mendenhall sitting on another player totally immobile and guys ripping it out of his hands. Same with Logan earlier in the year getting the ball ripped out as he was stood up and being pushed backwards. Ever since the bad call last year with San Diego/Denver, the refs are too afraid to blow the whistle.

stillers4me
10-19-2009, 08:35 AM
Yeah, that's another one. Time to bring back some sanity in the game. If it wasn't for instant replay through multiple angles, some rulings couldn't happen. How do they expect the zebras to see stuff than 3 or 4 cameras have a hard time catching?

I'd like to see them call that when Sweed is the receiver and see if they assume that he was actually going to catch the ball.

Kinda like them never calling roughing the passer for Ben because of the "way he plays the game". I heard a Serius host say "he doesn't protect hmself so why should they." :mad:

Both of these clearly show that the refs are deciding the assumed outcome of a play. Why bother actually playing the games.

plenewken
10-19-2009, 08:38 AM
How about allowing fumbles to happen after forward progress is clearly stopped? Such as Mendenhall sitting on another player totally immobile and guys ripping it out of his hands. Same with Logan earlier in the year getting the ball ripped out as he was stood up and being pushed backwards. Ever since the bi bad call last year with San Diego/Denver, the refs are too afraid to blow the whistle.

Mendenhall's fumble was a joke because the forward progress was stopped but he should better protect the ball anyway. He said afterwards that he had parts of his body on the ground. No friggin' way. He was clearly on top of a player, at least 10" above ground.

Jmat
10-19-2009, 08:50 AM
If Hines' TD catch wasn't a TD catch then Troy's pick against the Colts in the playoffs wasn't really a pick. He didn't maintain control of the ball through the process and the Ref was correct.
Seeing as the League admitted the Ref made a mistake and it was a pick then Hines' catch was a touchdown.

Kvnfaber
10-19-2009, 08:57 AM
Common sense makes the Hines Ward ruling look silly. Since when is a play not over when the player with the ball goes out of bounds? If possession matters after touching out of bounds, then players should be able to fumble with one foot out.

It just makes no sense.

Hammer Of The GODS
10-19-2009, 09:25 AM
Did anyone see the Bears Falcons game? Knox of the Bears did not have control of the ball and was given the td. It wasnt even close compared to Hines.

I did see that catch/no catch!

WTF?

INCONSISTANCY! Plain and simple.

The officiating is different from game to game and it's getting out of control. Each year that passes the refs get more and more retarded.

The ONLY consistancy is Marsha geting a flag by just turning to the ref and crying about a penalty!


.

Jmat
10-19-2009, 09:38 AM
Did anyone see the Bears Falcons game? Knox of the Bears did not have control of the ball and was given the td. It wasnt even close compared to Hines.
I was thinking the same thing. How was that a TD and Hines was ruled not a catch?
Major inconsistencies.

RoethlisBURGHer
10-19-2009, 09:57 AM
I want to know how the hell does the ground not cause a fumble but it can cause an incompletion?

When your knee, arm, leg, butt, helmet...anything but your hands or your feet touch the ground, as long as you are touched by a defensive player....that is YOU ARE DOWN BY CONTACT, PLAY OVER!

If you step/roll/flip/whatever out of bounds, then you are OUT OF BOUNDS, PLAY OVER!

They have made what is a catch and not a catch so freaking complicated that I don't think the officials honestly know what a catch is...so in that situation they start second guessing calls and reversing catches and letting non-catches stand.

RoethlisBURGHer
10-19-2009, 10:15 AM
After catching a TD with a defender who is nearby, you must carry the ball to the bench, and then it will be ruled a TD.

:rofl:

That will be the rule next season.

fansince'76
10-19-2009, 10:18 AM
I'd like to know why it takes 20 seconds for a damn whistle to be blown after a ballcarrier's forward progress has been obviously stopped.

Angus Burgher
10-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Does anyone have a link to a video that shows Hines' TD catch (that was ruled as no catch)? I didn't get to see the game (due to my cable provider showing the damned Ravens game) and NFL.com didn't have it on the highlights. I really want to see this.

Also, speaking of bad calls, I guess this one doesn't matter too much since the Ravens lost the game yesterday but anyway... I saw Flacco throw a 3rd down pass to one of his receivers and the guy dove for it and it clearly came out of his hands and hit the ground before he grabbed it again. Childress challeged it but the ref still called it a catch. Funny, I remember the SAME THING happening to Santonio Holmes against the Ratbirds last season in the playoffs and guess what? They ruled it a drop.

plenewken
10-19-2009, 11:30 AM
You want a goofy rule, how about a late hit on the QB nullifying a INT. That is a pretty damn big penalty for the D. I think if the penalty had nothing to do with the reason for the turn over, the turn over should stand and the team could have the penalty from the spot.

Yeah, this one is close to winning the cake, especially when you know how subjective the notion of late hit can be, and how it's enforced or not depending who the QB is.

In any case nullifying the interception happening prior to the hit is completely ludicrous.

steelreserve
10-19-2009, 11:36 AM
I'd like to know why it takes 20 seconds for a damn whistle to be blown after a ballcarrier's forward progress has been obviously stopped.

Yeah, except when it's a guy trying to get out of bounds on purpose to stop the clock. Then they'll bend over backwards to keep the clock running by saying forward progress was stopped.

Part of the rules that came in 10-15 years ago to "speed up the game" so it'd fit neatly into a 3-hour slot for TV. Except then they do things like have a touchdown, then show some commercials, then show JUST the kickoff and then cut to more commercials. Brilliant, guys.

steelreserve
10-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Yeah, this one is close to winning the cake, especially when you know how subjective the notion of late hit can be, and how it's enforced or not depending who the QB is.

In any case nullifying the interception happening prior to the hit is completely ludicrous.

Not to split hairs here, but how often does the interception take place before the late hit on the QB? I'd guess almost never.

But yes, it's still pretty stupid when that happens, and I am in wholehearted agreement about calling game-changing penalties that had nothing to do with the play, whether it's badly times personal fouls or holding all the way on the other side of the field, or anything like that.

SteelKid212
10-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Common sense makes the Hines Ward ruling look silly. Since when is a play not over when the player with the ball goes out of bounds? If possession matters after touching out of bounds, then players should be able to fumble with one foot out.

It just makes no sense.

thats EXACTLY what i was sayin after seein the replay!!!!!!!! :mad:
dam refs.... but then again... im not surprised.....
they always seeem to make horrendous calls against the Steelers... :doh:
anybody remember any throughout the years? :coffee:

jev7452
10-19-2009, 12:53 PM
i think the only reason the called hines CATCH as incomplete is because they were feeling a ton of pressure after that "questionable" 1st down call when the ball did appear to be short via TV view.. granted they said maybe it was a bad angle of the camera but i think that that and that alone is the only reason they took that away from hines..

VinnySteel
10-19-2009, 01:12 PM
I'm a steelers fan, don't get me wrong and please don't flame me, but that was an incomplete pass. They showed that one view that had him falling into the camera and the ball came out and hit the ground. The receiver has to maintain possession if he goes to the ground. Johnny Knox's catch was a catch because he had the ball, took two steps in bounds in the endzone and then had the ball knocked out by the defender.

The first down was a first down, the camera was on an angle. I hate that the announcers didn't pick up on this at all and it really convinced everyone watching that they were short. If you look at a replay, the camera was panning down and you could see the yard markers on a slant. If you follow the slant of the yard marker or even the slant of the front face of the yardstick, it is plain as day it is a first down. Barely, but it was.

fansince'76
10-19-2009, 01:21 PM
I'm a steelers fan, don't get me wrong and please don't flame me, but that was an incomplete pass. They showed that one view that had him falling into the camera and the ball came out and hit the ground. The receiver has to maintain possession if he goes to the ground. Johnny Knox's catch was a catch because he had the ball, took two steps in bounds in the endzone and then had the ball knocked out by the defender.

DSkCQjXnZt8&

Knox clearly bobbled the ball on the second step. I'm not saying Hines' catch shouldn't have been ruled incomplete because IMO, that was the correct call to make, but Knox's should have also been ruled incomplete - he never had full control of it. My problem isn't so much with calls - my problem is with the inconsistency of calls.

stlrtruck
10-19-2009, 01:50 PM
2) Penalty on punt or kick-off:

How come when there's a penalty on a kick-off or a punt, let's say a holding, the receiving team gets a 1st and 10 ten yards back and and not 1st and 20 where the ball was spotted?
Same with personal foul (15 yards instead of 10).

As far as I know, moving the ball 10 yards to get a 1st down is easier than moving it 20 or 25 yards, no?

I've been having this conversation with people for the last 3 years. It makes absolutely no sense that a team isn't really penalized if the penalty is on the kickoff but let it happen on first down and see what happens.

Kvnfaber
10-19-2009, 02:40 PM
I'm a steelers fan, don't get me wrong and please don't flame me, but that was an incomplete pass. They showed that one view that had him falling into the camera and the ball came out and hit the ground. The receiver has to maintain possession if he goes to the ground. Johnny Knox's catch was a catch because he had the ball, took two steps in bounds in the endzone and then had the ball knocked out by the defender.


What's the difference between Knox having the ball and taking two steps, and Hines having the ball and rolling over on his back in the end zone with control?

Hines bobbled the ball AFTER going out of bounds and AFTER maintaining possession while in the end zone with his elbows/back touching the ground.

Possession is possession. I see no difference.

Preacher
10-19-2009, 02:45 PM
DSkCQjXnZt8&

Knox clearly bobbled the ball on the second step. I'm not saying Hines' catch shouldn't have been ruled incomplete because IMO, that was the correct call to make, but Knox's should have also been ruled incomplete - he never had full control of it. My problem isn't so much with calls - my problem is with the inconsistency of calls.

I dont know FS. It looks like he has the ball as his second foot hits the ground. At that point, it IS a TD.

THen, from the first angle, I thought the DB reached in and smacked it away...

I would however, like to see a few more angles. Either way, I agree with you Hines's catch was incomplete.

fansince'76
10-19-2009, 03:07 PM
I dont know FS. It looks like he has the ball as his second foot hits the ground. At that point, it IS a TD..

I dunno - I could swear I saw a little bit of a juggle of the ball between his left and right hands just as he completes his second step (between 0:14-0:16 of the clip).

steelreserve
10-19-2009, 03:56 PM
I've been having this conversation with people for the last 3 years. It makes absolutely no sense that a team isn't really penalized if the penalty is on the kickoff but let it happen on first down and see what happens.

I think that on average, the fact that they mark the penalty from the spot of the foul, and thereby bring back 50-yard returns all the time, more than makes up for that.

It kind of makes sense to me that penalties on changes of possession don't affect your yards to go when the offense comes on. Runbacks are in a brief window where there IS no down or yards to go. For your offense, it's basically 0th down with 0 to go.

Plus, with all the blocks in the back they call, we (or any other team) would be looking at first-and-20 to start about half our possessions. And remember, that's not good for promoting scoring, which is all the league cares about.

LVSteelersfan
10-20-2009, 12:58 AM
The rule says you have to maintain posession through the entire play even if you roll twenty-two times. How many times you roll is irrelevant. Although the rule totally sucks, Hines Ward bobbled it at the end and therefor it was not a catch. Sucks, but it is the way it is. And yes, the refs suck big time.