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View Full Version : ObamaCare Could be Used to Ban Guns in Home Self-Defense


MACH1
10-26-2009, 05:24 PM
Friday, October 9, 2009

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has something to say to gun owners: “Own a gun; lose your coverage!”

Baucus’ socialized health care bill comes up for a Finance Committee vote on Tuesday. We have waited and waited and waited for the shifty Baucus to release legislative language. But he has refused to release anything but a summary -- and we will never have a Congressional Budget Office cost assessment based on actual legislation. Even the summary was kept secret for a long time.

But, on the basis of the summary, the Baucus bill (which is still unnumbered) tells us virtually nothing about what kind of policy Americans will be required to purchase under penalty of law -- nor the consequences. It simply says:

* “all U.S. citizens and legal residents would be required to purchase coverage through (1) the individual market...”;

* “individuals would be required to report on their federal income tax return the months for which they maintain the required minimum health coverage...”;

* in addition to an extensive list of statutorily mandated coverage, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius would be empowered to “define and update the categories of treatments, items, and services...” within an insurance plan which would be covered in a policy constituting “required minimum health coverage.”

ObamaCare and gun control

It is nearly certain that coverage prescribed by the administration will, to control costs, exclude coverage for what it regards as excessively dangerous activities. And, given Sebelius’ well-established antipathy to the Second Amendment -- she vetoed concealed carry legislation as governor of Kansas -- we presume she will define these dangerous activities to include hunting and self-defense using a firearm. It is even possible that the Obama-prescribed policy could preclude reimbursement of any kind in a household which keeps a loaded firearm for self-defense.

The ObamaCare bill already contains language that will punish Americans who engage in unhealthy behavior by allowing insurers to charge them higher insurance premiums. (What constitutes an unhealthy lifestyle is, of course, to be defined by legislators.) Don’t be surprised if an anti-gun nut like Sebelius uses this line of thinking to impose ObamaCare policies which result in a back-door gun ban on any American who owns “dangerous” firearms.

After all, insurers already (and routinely) drop homeowners from their policies for owning certain types of guns or for refusing to use trigger locks (that is, for keeping their guns ready for self-defense!). While not all insurers practice this anti-gun behavior, Gun Owners of America has documented that some do -- Prudential and State Farm being two of the most well-known.

The good news is that because homeowner insurance is private (and is still subject to the free market) you can go to another company if one drops you. But what are you going to do under nationalized ObamaCare when the regulations written by Secretary Sebelius suspend the applicability of your government-mandated policy because of your gun ownership?

All of this is in addition to something that GOA has been warning you about for several months … the certainty that minimum acceptable policies will dump your gun information into a federal database … a certainty that is reinforced by language in the summary providing for a study to “encourage increased meaningful use of electronic health records.”

Remember, the federal government has already denied more than 150,000 military veterans the right to own guns, without their being convicted of a crime or receiving any due process of law. They were denied because of medical information (such as PTSD) that the FBI later determined disqualified these veterans to own guns.

Is this what we need on a national level being applied to every gun owner in America?

Incidentally, failure to comply would subject the average family to $1,500 in fines -- and possibly more for a household with older teens. And, although a Schumer amendment purports to exempt Americans from prison sentences for non-purchase of an ObamaPolicy -- something which was never at issue -- it doesn’t prohibit them from being sent to prison for a year and fined an additional $25,000 under the Internal Revenue Code for non-payment of the initial fines.

ACTION: Contact your two U.S. Senators. Ask him or her, in the strongest terms, to vote against the phony Baucus bill.

You can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear Senator:

You already know that the phony Baucus bill:

* Is predicated on $283 billion in phony “cuts” which have never, never ever been realized since a similar commitment to cut Medicare costs in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 -- and will never, never ever be realized under the Baucus bill;

* Requires massive numbers of Americans to have government-approved insurance which the CBO predicts will be more expensive than current policies;

* Refuses to provide a cost for these policies, making it almost certain that more and more Americans will find insurance beyond their reach;

* Has no legislative language and nothing but a CBO “guesstimate” of the cost and benefits, based on a summary.

On the basis of the summary, the Baucus bill tells us virtually nothing about what kind of policy Americans will be required to purchase under penalty of law -- nor the consequences. It does say that the “Secretary of HHS [Kathleen Sebelius] would be required to define and update the categories of treatments, items, and services...” within an insurance plan which would be covered in a policy constituting “required minimum health coverage.”

This could spell trouble for gun owners.

It is nearly certain that coverage prescribed by the administration will, to control costs, exclude coverage for what it regards as excessively dangerous activities. And, given Sebelius’ well-established antipathy to the Second Amendment -- she vetoed concealed carry legislation as governor of Kansas -- I presume she will define these dangerous activities to include hunting and self-defense using a firearm. It is even possible that the Obama-prescribed policy could preclude reimbursement of any kind in a household which keeps a loaded firearm for self-defense.

This is, of course, in addition to the certainty that minimum acceptable policies will dump my gun information into a federal database -- a certainty that is reinforced by language in the summary providing for a study to “encourage increased meaningful use of electronic health records.”

Incidentally, failure to comply would subject the average family to $1,500 in fines -- and possibly more for a household with older teens. And, although a Schumer amendment purports to exempt Americans from prison sentences for non-purchase of an ObamaPolicy -- something which was never at issue -- it doesn’t prohibit them from being sent to prison for a year and fined an additional $25,000 under the Internal Revenue Code for non-payment of the initial fines.

Please oppose the Baucus bill.

Sincerely,

http://gunowners.org/a100909.htm

Preacher
10-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Interesting read.

However, the entire argument concerning gun control is premised on a hunch.. a presumption.

It is nearly certain that coverage prescribed by the administration will, to control costs, exclude coverage for what it regards as excessively dangerous activities. And, given Sebelius’ well-established antipathy to the Second Amendment -- she vetoed concealed carry legislation as governor of Kansas -- we presume she will define these dangerous activities to include hunting and self-defense using a firearm. It is even possible that the Obama-prescribed policy could preclude reimbursement of any kind in a household which keeps a loaded firearm for self-defense.

I think the entire policy is dangerous, wrong-headed, and arrogant. BUt we should be spotlighting the facts of issues, not playing up possibilities.

MACH1
10-26-2009, 05:50 PM
Interesting read.

However, the entire argument concerning gun control is premised on a hunch.. a presumption.

I think the entire policy is dangerous, wrong-headed, and arrogant. BUt we should be spotlighting the facts of issues, not playing up possibilities.


Its a foot in the door.

How about this for facts.



Obama move would eliminate 8 of 10 pocketknives
'If this were to pass and you cross the state line with one, it's a felony'


By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency is proposing a new definition that could be used to eliminate 8 of 10 legal pocketknives in the United States right now, according to activists who are gearing up to fight the plan.


Ritter said the reason for the change isn't clear, "but certainly this administration is no friend to things like knives and guns," he said.

A successful campaign to change the definition would mean thousands would be out of work in the knife industry, and the impact would have far-reaching effects.

For example, if someone would be caught with a newly-illegal "pocketknife," would the resulting charges be structured to allege that person was dangerous or had an illegal weapon, and how would that change the defendant's right to own a firearm, he wondered.

"If this law were to pass and you cross the state line with a folder (pocketknife) in your pocket, it would be a federal felony," he said.

"They are saying that any knife that you can open quickly or any knife that you can open with one hand is therefore a switchblade," Ritter told WND.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100679

Liberal's minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

Godfather
10-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Interesting read.

However, the entire argument concerning gun control is premised on a hunch.. a presumption.



I think the entire policy is dangerous, wrong-headed, and arrogant. BUt we should be spotlighting the facts of issues, not playing up possibilities.

I agree with this. We have to keep our arguments as simple and direct as possible or we'll lose.

Preacher
10-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Its a foot in the door.

How about this for facts.




http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100679

Liberal's minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

I agree with this. We have to keep our arguments as simple and direct as possible or we'll lose.

Its not that I disagree they may go there. Its that we have to argue this on facts, not on what ifs and maybes. It is too easy to dismiss what ifs. It is not so easy to dismiss facts.

tony hipchest
10-26-2009, 09:23 PM
:shout:-PANIC!!!

Preacher
10-26-2009, 09:55 PM
:shout:-PANIC!!!
Whatever :coffee:

tony hipchest
10-26-2009, 09:57 PM
:shout:- :coffee: ...PANIC!!!

lol. :chuckle:

Preacher
10-26-2009, 10:24 PM
:shout:- :coffee: ...PANIC!!!

lol. :chuckle:

Found a picture of the mouse in your house Tony. . . be careful.


http://thecount.com/wp-content/uploads/chuck-e-cheese.jpg

KeiselPower99
10-26-2009, 10:32 PM
I just wanna know. How the hell are we paying for all this stuff Obama and his followers are passing? 1 trillion here another trillion there. Where is the money coming from????

Preacher
10-26-2009, 10:34 PM
I just wanna know. How the hell are we paying for all this stuff Obama and his followers are passing? 1 trillion here another trillion there. Where is the money coming from????

Now THAT is a legitimate question.

tony hipchest
10-26-2009, 10:35 PM
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/1533173.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/cheesegrater.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/cheese2hq.jpg

Preacher
10-26-2009, 11:42 PM
http://www.jasperfforde.com/specops/images/cheese_alert.jpg

The Patriot
10-27-2009, 01:27 AM
I just wanna know. How the hell are we paying for all this stuff Obama and his followers are passing? 1 trillion here another trillion there. Where is the money coming from????

The future! When everybody has money! :propeller

KeiselPower99
10-27-2009, 08:36 AM
The future! When everybody has money! :propeller

Cant be. Obama and his followers are telling us rich people are evil and we all need to have the same amount of money.

SCSTILLER
10-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Cant be. Obama and his followers are telling us rich people are evil and we all need to have the same amount of money.

"Tax the rich, fee the poor, till there are no rich no more" Don't know who sang that but that is the thinking now adays.