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XxKnightxX
11-02-2009, 10:17 PM
Ill see if i can post a link later. I keep seeing it on the ESPN bottom line. Personally if this is true, then :applaudit: to Randy Lerner and actually making moves, but then again its going to create more front office chaos. Manginas next.

RoethlisBURGHer
11-02-2009, 10:36 PM
He was stupid to let the head coach choose the general manager. Yeah, in Kokinis' contract is said he had final say over personnel moves, but we all know Mangini made those decisions and Kokinis was just a figurehead GM.

Maybe now Lerner will finally bring in someone with some experience at the GM position. Maybe put some order into the front office and strip Mangini of some of that power he has.

I honestly think if he does that, it's a step in the right direction for Cleveland. Lerner needs to bring someone in, someone with experience (especially someone who has rebuilt a franchise before), and give that guy the true power of a General Manager.

But then again, this is Randy Lerner....he will find a way to screw it up.

fansince'76
11-02-2009, 10:38 PM
Fail to see what good this is gonna do in the middle of the season, especially when you have to pay him anyway. :noidea:

Psyychoward86
11-02-2009, 10:48 PM
im so used to seeing the Browns fail, that i actually get no pleasure out of this

KeiselPower99
11-02-2009, 11:25 PM
Schottenheimer 2010

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-03-2009, 12:59 AM
Fail to see what good this is gonna do in the middle of the season, especially when you have to pay him anyway. :noidea:

Its like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer was working at a job where he really didnt know what he was doing. You know...........this one. Just sub in Kokinis for Kramer and imagine that Lerner is the guy on the other side of the desk.

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MasterOfPuppets
11-03-2009, 01:10 AM
Fail to see what good this is gonna do in the middle of the season, especially when you have to pay him anyway. :noidea:

basically he's just trying to gain fan support and trying to take the attention away from himself.the fans wanna see heads roll, so he threw them a token sacrifice. ....:noidea:

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
11-03-2009, 05:01 AM
I honestly think if he does that, it's a step in the right direction for Cleveland. Lerner needs to bring someone in, someone with experience (especially someone who has rebuilt a franchise before), and give that guy the true power of a General Manager.

But then again, this is Randy Lerner....he will find a way to screw it up.

http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/11/02/sports/nh1647108.txt

George Kokinis was fired Monday as general manager and escorted from Browns headquarters, according to league sources. The Browns are not confirming the reports.

Hours later, sources said Ernie Accorsi was hired as the team's GM. The move is a blast from the past for Browns' fans. Accorsi was the Browns' GM from 1985 to 1992.

He also served as GM of the Colts from 1982 to 83, and also worked in the Giants' front office from 1994 to 2004, including a stint as New York's GM from 1998 and on.

In 2004, he spearheaded a trade to get No. 1 pick Eli Manning from the Chargers.

Kokinis has been on the hot seat for more than three weeks, the source said. The ax falls one day after Browns owner Randy Lerner said he plans on hiring a strong football personality to run the Browns.

The firing comes at the start of the bye week.

Kokinis was hired Jan. 23 at the urging of Browns coach Eric Mangini. Lerner has said Mangini's job is safe for now.

More to come as details become available. Tuesday's print editions will have a full report.

Galax Steeler
11-03-2009, 05:02 AM
We better look out the Browns will be on a come back and maybe a superbowl title with this change.:rofl:

SteelMember
11-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Fail to see what good this is gonna do in the middle of the season, especially when you have to pay him anyway. :noidea:

According to this (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/10311362/Glazer:-Sources-say-Browns-fire-GM-Kokinis-), they are trying to get out of that. Some of it, anyway.

One source told FOXSports.com that Kokinis was fired "with cause," which often means a team will attempt to get out of paying the employee his full remaining salary. Kokinis is highly regarded in league circles, but many warned that his marriage with uber control freak Eric Mangini was bound to fail.

stlrtruck
11-03-2009, 08:31 AM
Fail to see what good this is gonna do in the middle of the season, especially when you have to pay him anyway. :noidea:

While you still have to pay him, at least if you get a new GM in place soon he can begin evaluating the current talent and start looking at next year's draft picks in terms of team needs, gaining cohesiveness, etc.

This could prove to be a good move if he hires the right GM, one that won't bow down to Mangini but instead can work together to build a cohesive unit.

Is it gonna happen that way? It's the browns - probably not! :rofl:

Fire Haley
11-03-2009, 08:36 AM
Mangini hired Kokonis.

Mangini throws Kokonis under the bus to save his own job.

ha ha


What a complete cluster

KeiselPower99
11-03-2009, 09:05 AM
So who really is running things in Cleveland? Lerner or Mangini?

Fire Haley
11-03-2009, 09:06 AM
Watched Mike and Mike - they said that Lerner's been "investigating" Kokinis, Mangini and Mangini's front office female assistant who was recently fired for 'both professional and personal improprieties'.

So, Kok was banging Mangini's ho?


At least somebody scored in Cleveland!

RoethlisBURGHer
11-03-2009, 09:46 AM
Watched Mike and Mike - they said that Lerner's been "investigating" Kokinis, Mangini and Mangini's front office female assistant who was recently fired for 'both professional and personal improprieties'.

So, Kok was banging Mangini's ho?


At least somebody scored in Cleveland!

:rofl::toofunny::sofunny:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

But we all know, it wasn't the football team!

Fire Haley
11-03-2009, 10:03 AM
Nobody wants to work with Mangini


Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false

By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.

Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.

Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.

"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."

Reports that Accorsi would be hired to train former quarterback Bernie Kosar for a GM position are off base, too.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/reports_of_cleveland_browns_hi.html

RoethlisBURGHer
11-03-2009, 10:48 AM
Nobody wants to work with Mangini


Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false

By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.

Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.

Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.

"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."

Reports that Accorsi would be hired to train former quarterback Bernie Kosar for a GM position are off base, too.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/reports_of_cleveland_browns_hi.html

The Browns need completely rebuilt. No legit GM prospect is going to touch the Browns as long as Eric Mangini is the head coach.

Eric Mangini has the power over personnel matters in Cleveland (along with the side gig of interior decorator :chuckle:). Just stripping him of it, will be nothing but a huge blowup.

43Hitman
11-03-2009, 12:36 PM
He was stupid to let the head coach choose the general manager. Yeah, in Kokinis' contract is said he had final say over personnel moves, but we all know Mangini made those decisions and Kokinis was just a figurehead GM.

Maybe now Lerner will finally bring in someone with some experience at the GM position. Maybe put some order into the front office and strip Mangini of some of that power he has.

I honestly think if he does that, it's a step in the right direction for Cleveland. Lerner needs to bring someone in, someone with experience (especially someone who has rebuilt a franchise before), and give that guy the true power of a General Manager.

But then again, this is Randy Lerner....he will find a way to screw it up.

Yep, he'll probably hire Matt Millen. Then load up on WR's.:chuckle:

rbryan
11-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Go ahead and hire Kosar........that sounds about right.

If he can sober up long enough to convince Lerner he's the right choice he'll set them back another 10 years.

Although you could make a pretty good argument that things couldn't possibly get any worse.

Dino 6 Rings
11-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Can you say L.A. Browns?

revefsreleets
11-03-2009, 01:50 PM
This was a move of desperation. It actually makes little sense, as the GM had little to do with the failure of this team (It's only been 6 months since the draft, and Mangini forced all the stupid FA moves bringing in mediocre Jets players).

Rob Ryan will be the interim before this season is over...of that there's little doubt. I'm not sure Kosar CAN GM...what experience does he really have in that vein?

SteelMember
11-03-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm not sure Kosar CAN GM...what experience does he really have in that vein?

None, as far as I'm aware. I don't think he could spot talent in a wet t-shirt contest. Besides he couldn't handle his own finances, why would anyone let him handle theirs? QB coach may be a good start imo, because he's no Mario Lemieux...by a long shot.

revefsreleets
11-03-2009, 02:33 PM
But he's popular, and if the Browns DO manage to hire a coach of some notoriety, perhaps..........um, a guy like Cowher, part of the deal will be that he NOT have to butt heads with the GM on major decision making.

Lerner is NOT an idiot....he knows how to hire good people...........for soccer. How different can it be for football? I still think he's been stalling and sandbagging....

RoethlisBURGHer
11-03-2009, 02:42 PM
Go ahead and hire Kosar........that sounds about right.

If he can sober up long enough to convince Lerner he's the right choice he'll set them back another 10 years.

Although you could make a pretty good argument that things couldn't possibly get any worse.

I have heard more than a few Browns fan seriously suggest this.

While I like Kosar, I wouldn't put him in charge of an NFL team. Cleveland fans are putting way too much stock into the one year the Gladiators spent in Cleveland as an arena league team.

I think Lerner should hire someone who has been part of building a franchise from rubble.

But yes, watch Lerner hire Kosar, who probably doesn't know the first thing about building an NFL franchise....just because the fans want him to.

revefsreleets
11-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Again, the move makes sense IF he has a very strong HC in mind who doesn't want a bunch of flack in the War Room, someone with any power to second guess him.

The GM isn't making any moves of any kind at this particular stage of the season anyway.

Steelboy84
11-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Ill see if i can post a link later. I keep seeing it on the ESPN bottom line. Personally if this is true, then :applaudit: to Randy Lerner and actually making moves, but then again its going to create more front office chaos. Manginas next.

I can't see why anyone would want to go coach in Cleveland. It will RUIN your career!

Crennel, Mangini, and whoever comes next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steelboy84
11-03-2009, 02:56 PM
Watched Mike and Mike - they said that Lerner's been "investigating" Kokinis, Mangini and Mangini's front office female assistant who was recently fired for 'both professional and personal improprieties'.

So, Kok was banging Mangini's ho?


At least somebody scored in Cleveland!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :drink:

MasterOfPuppets
11-03-2009, 03:29 PM
Again, the move makes sense IF he has a very strong HC in mind who doesn't want a bunch of flack in the War Room, someone with any power to second guess him.

The GM isn't making any moves of any kind at this particular stage of the season anyway. yes true, but it does give him time to assemble draft scouts and evaluate the pile of suck thats currently on the roster. if someone is gonna build that franchise into something credible, its gotta start with drafting better.

revefsreleets
11-03-2009, 03:54 PM
yes true, but it does give him time to assemble draft scouts and evaluate the pile of suck thats currently on the roster. if someone is gonna build that franchise into something credible, its gotta start with drafting better.


Start and END with the draft. They have 11 picks next year. They'll most likely have at LEAST a top 3 pick. I still contend that with the right coach, they can be a force to be reckoned with within 3 years AFTER they right the ship. They have some quality players, like Joe Thomas and D'Quell Jackson. I still think Eric Wright is a baller. Cribbs is an impact player if they can keep him. There is a base of decent talent but they need some real leadership and a solid path to follow.

revefsreleets
11-03-2009, 04:09 PM
More from a Browns columnist in the know....can't say I disagree at all...

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/03/first-and-10-another-episode-of-the-browns-world-turning/


First and 10: Another episode of the Browns world turning

by Pat McManamon on November 3, 2009

in Browns, Eric Mangini, First and 10, George Kokinis, McManamon, Randy Lerner

1) I awoke to NPR this morning stating that the Browns released an "awkwardly worded statement" that General Manager George Kokinis was gone. Calling the statement awkward — it said Kokinis "is no longer actively with the organization" — would be like calling winter in Nome chilly. You read that statement and you wonder what it means.

2) Then coach Eric Mangini stands up in his news conference and says he won't talk about what happened with Kokinis other than to say "it didn't work out." So the one voice that the team has isn't taking questions about it. Next thing you know the Browns will wonder why there's so much speculation and rumor about what happened. Not addressing the situation smacks of cowardice. Leadership means standing up when things are tough (see Mark Shapiro discussing and addressing the firing of Eric Wedge). In this case, Mangini and the Browns sat down. The really frightening thing: Mangini kept saying "we" when talking about the organization and the team's future, as if to imply he would be part of it long-term. Guess we now know the subject of the next paranormal activity movie.

3) I don't know what happened that caused this to happen with Kokinis so suddenly. Randy Lerner obviously felt strong enough about something to act. I have heard that Kokinis worked in Cleveland the same way he did in Baltimore. He kept coaches hours, which means arrive early and stay late and sometimes sleep in the office. He had his scouts doing the same thing, and that didn't sit real well with all of them. He also worked quietly, behind the scenes. Kokinis was not a real public guy, though he's always been a good guy in my private dealings with him.

4) The way this went down, though, clearly makes it seem like Kokinis is taking the fall for a bad start. Mangini somehow continues in his job, yet the GM is fired? After the majority of players brought in were ex-Jets? After the quarterback situation was completely mishandled on the field? After all the garbage we've seen on the playing field? True or not, this clearly makes it look like Mangini sacrificed his friend to save his job. And the Browns statement and Mangini's nonexplanation do nothing to rectify that impression. As for Mangini calling Kokinis a friend … I can hardly wait to see what gifts they exchange this Christmas.

5) The flip side is that if Kokinis was simply not up to the job and the pressures of the job and losing got to him — a possibility — then Mangini was wrong to suggest him as GM and the Browns made a mistake picking him. Either way, Mangini does not come out of this well. Nor should he. He's overseeing a season of disastrous proportions.

6) Let's not forget, too, Mangini's history in New England. He wanted a head coaching job, and Bill Belichick asked him not to take one job — with the Jets. Belichick's thinking: The rivalry and feelings between the two teams were too intense for the friendship to continue. Any other team … Belichick said, he'd do anything he could to help him. Mangini took the Jets job anyway, and he knew he was getting it as the Patriots flew back from a playoff loss in Denver. So on the team plane, Mangini was recruiting coaches from Belichick's staff to join him in New York. When Belichick heard this, he was irate, and the next day locked Mangini out of the building. Once Mangini got to New York, Spygate followed. Now we have Kokinis recommended by Mangini, hired, and fired. Err … no longer actively involved.

7) One thing can't be debated: Kokinis waited to take the job with the Browns last January because he wanted it in his contract that he had final say over personnel. He got that. It seems quite obvious that once he got in the building, Mangini had final say over everything — including how Kokinis should act (he was not the same person he was in Baltimore), who parks where and the fact that the first floor should have plaster board covering up the cinder block. Not to mention moving the mural of the hall of famers that has never been placed in the lobby like the team said it would (though there are nice plaques with the names of the hall of famers).

8) Walking out of Solider Field on Sunday, I heard another writer from the Chicago area describe the game this way while talking on his cell phone: "Wasn't much of a game. The Bears played really bad, and the Browns are just horrible." Sums it up, doesn't it? The Bears had a day they'd like to forget, a day when they openly admitted they played down to the Browns level — and they won BY 24 POINTS.

9) What did Jamal Lewis mean when he said he "stuck his neck out" for the Browns? Two things: First is he is playing on a very painful ankle, one that required an offseason procedure and would sideline a lot of others players. Second is he stood up for the new regime, and did what he could to get everyone on the team to "buy in." Now he sees what's happening, and he's rightly disgusted.

10) There's no sense hiding from another reality: The majority of the players cannot stand playing for Mangini. Yes, there is a small group that believes in him, and most are the guys he brought in from New York. But others simply don't like him. Because he belittles them in meetings, beats them down mentally and has no clear plan to win a game. Anyone who believes that this team believes in this coach is not looking at the reality on the field. Too, the players look at how he says everyone should be treated the same and they see that Mangini treats employees in the building shabbily and they think "hypocrite." As one league insider very knowledgeable in the workings of this and any team said: "That situation there will get 100 times worse before it even starts to get better

Fire Haley
11-03-2009, 05:41 PM
Browns fans are as delusional as always in picking an new HC.

1.Bill Cowher, 1A.Bill Parcells
2. Marty Schottenheimer, 3. Jon Gruden, 4. Mike Holmgreen

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1547&t=5051116


The same "name" coaches that wanted nothing to do with that crap organization STILL don't want your crap job!

Browns will pick another ball boy like Mangini.

AllD
11-03-2009, 06:49 PM
How about making the Browns the first NFL team outside of the USA like the league has been lobbying for?

Kandahar Browns. Has a nice ring to it.

BlastFurnace
11-03-2009, 07:20 PM
RIP ManKok

tony hipchest
11-03-2009, 07:31 PM
How about making the Browns the first NFL team outside of the USA like the league has been lobbying for?

Kandahar Browns. Has a nice ring to it.

:scratchchin: Bangkok Browns!

devilsdancefloor
11-03-2009, 07:46 PM
So mankok is no more. Does this mean the browns are kokless?

Fire Haley
11-03-2009, 11:09 PM
Ha ha

Marty is bailing out early


Marty Schottenheimer isn't interested in the Cleveland Browns' general manager vacancy.

The former Browns coach made that point abundantly clear during his NFL Sirius radio show.

“I don’t even see that kind of a role for me," Schottenheimer said today. "I’m not familiar enough with what they have in terms of their front office. Let somebody else do that. It’s really a very unusual circumstance and it’s going to take some dramatic measures in my mind to be able to get the thing headed in the right direction.

“The bottom line for them right now is they don’t have a real good football team. They’re not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it’s going to be a very, very difficult circumstance. The important thing in my view is very simply this: You cannot lose your football team. And dashing around doing all these things that are on the periphery don’t serve any useful purpose at this point in time. You want to resolve issues like this? Let the thing play out, gather information as you go."

After the dismissal of general manager George Kokinis, the Browns seem unlikely to hire a general manager immediately.

Yet, you never can tell what the Browns might do next when it comes to unpredictable owner Randy Lerner.

“We recognize the decision for them from the standpoint of a playoff berth is virtually impossible for them to achieve," Schottenheimer said. "You need to leave some sense of stability at least through this season because players that are there signed to long term contracts are thinking, ‘What in the world is going on here?’

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Schottenheimer-not-interested-in-Browns-GM-vacancy.html

stlrtruck
11-04-2009, 08:51 AM
I mean really other than some unknown dying to get in to the NFL Coaching system, is there anyone "interested" in the browns open position?

fansince'76
11-04-2009, 09:14 AM
Marty Schottenheimer isn't interested in the Cleveland Browns' general manager vacancy.

The former Browns coach made that point abundantly clear during his NFL Sirius radio show.

“I don’t even see that kind of a role for me," Schottenheimer said today. "I’m not familiar enough with what they have in terms of their front office. Let somebody else do that. It’s really a very unusual circumstance and it’s going to take some dramatic measures in my mind to be able to get the thing headed in the right direction.

“The bottom line for them right now is they don’t have a real good football team. They’re not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it’s going to be a very, very difficult circumstance. The important thing in my view is very simply this: You cannot lose your football team. And dashing around doing all these things that are on the periphery don’t serve any useful purpose at this point in time. You want to resolve issues like this? Let the thing play out, gather information as you go."

Translation: They suck WAY too bad for me to entertain working for them. :toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:

revefsreleets
11-04-2009, 09:47 AM
Bernie would take the job...he needs the cash in a bad way...and him not really knowing the position would matter exactly how? Could the situation be any WORSE?

RoethlisBURGHer
11-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Bernie would take the job...he needs the cash in a bad way...and him not really knowing the position would matter exactly how? Could the situation be any WORSE?

I would love a weekly Bernie Kosar interview!

revefsreleets
11-04-2009, 12:42 PM
Just like Otis from Mayberry....

"I dun know what we was doing...(hiccup)....out dere Sunday....wait, was we playin a game Ssssssunday (hiccup)? Wos we playinnnnn football Sssssunday? (hiccup).

http://www.familycourtchronicles.com/philosophy/drugs/otis-from-mayberry.jpg

RoethlisBURGHer
11-04-2009, 12:50 PM
Just like Otis from Mayberry....

"I dun know what we was doing...(hiccup)....out dere Sunday....wait, was we playin a game Ssssssunday (hiccup)? Wos we playinnnnn football Sssssunday? (hiccup).

http://www.familycourtchronicles.com/philosophy/drugs/otis-from-mayberry.jpg

:rofl::toofunny::sofunny::thumbsup:

Oh lord, that was funny right there, I don't care who you are....that was funny!

Fire Haley
11-04-2009, 06:01 PM
Ha ha!


Cleveland Browns' Eric Mangini will help pick new GM

By Mary Kay Cabot
November 04, 2009, 2:20PM
Cleveland Plain Dealer

BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Eric Mangini said he'll have input into the hiring of the new general manager of the Browns.

Mangini's first hand-picked general manager, George Kokinis, parted ways with the Browns on Monday, with no word from either side on whether he was fired or resigned.

“Yea, Randy and I talk a lot, so I’m sure we’ll be very engaged in that (decision),'' said Mangini.

Asked if it would hard to add a GM midway through the NFL season, he said, "we're just going through the process, so I’m not sure how that will all play out. We have to really see what’s there, see what’s available.”

"I'm not sure what the timetable will be, but I do feel good about the process we have in place and the different departments we have in place,'' he said

RoethlisBURGHer
11-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Ha ha!


Cleveland Browns' Eric Mangini will help pick new GM

By Mary Kay Cabot
November 04, 2009, 2:20PM
Cleveland Plain Dealer

BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Eric Mangini said he'll have input into the hiring of the new general manager of the Browns.

Mangini's first hand-picked general manager, George Kokinis, parted ways with the Browns on Monday, with no word from either side on whether he was fired or resigned.

Yea, Randy and I talk a lot, so Im sure well be very engaged in that (decision),'' said Mangini.

Asked if it would hard to add a GM midway through the NFL season, he said, "we're just going through the process, so Im not sure how that will all play out. We have to really see whats there, see whats available.

"I'm not sure what the timetable will be, but I do feel good about the process we have in place and the different departments we have in place,'' he said

I am sure he will. Lerner should cross everyone Mangina wants off of his list of potential general managers.

Fire Haley
11-04-2009, 07:30 PM
Flipping a coin doesn't seem so bad now, does it Browns fans?

http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2008/12/romeo-crennel-122808.jpg

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
11-04-2009, 11:13 PM
Flipping a coin doesn't seem so bad now, does it Browns fans?

http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2008/12/romeo-crennel-122808.jpg

Thats like asking if someone wants death by hanging or firing squad. :noidea:

SteelMember
11-05-2009, 08:49 AM
Thats like asking if someone wants death by hanging or firing squad. :noidea:

You wish it could be over that quick.

You get death by fire ants or exposure. :chuckle:

revefsreleets
11-05-2009, 10:47 AM
Here is an interview with Lerner from the Cleveland PD. Not only is this guy a liar, he's also remarkably arrogant for someone so obviously inept at running a football team.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/cleveland_browns_owner_randy_l.html

BEREA, Ohio -- Except for a brief chat with reporters following the 30-6 loss in Chicago on Sunday, Browns owner Randy Lerner has stayed out of the media glare while his team has slumped to 1-7.

In his first extended interview since the firing of General Manager George Kokinis, Lerner agreed to answer a list of questions via email. Lerner would not comment on the reasons for the Kokinis firing, but he indicated the need for a "strong, credible leader" is a result of Kokinis' failings as GM. Lerner also said "no" to a question about whether he envisioned changing coaches.

Because of the nature of the interview to which Lerner agreed, follow-up questions were not able to be asked.

Question: The Kokinis firing indicates the Browns are in another state of transition. How do you justify changes being made in-season after only eight games after a complete overhaul in January?

Lerner: My justification for the recent change is that circumstances dictated the action taken and I can assure you they were unforeseen.

Q: Looking back at it, were there any signs early on that this season could spin out of control like it has?

Lerner: It seems to me that the 4-12 record in 2008 and the fact that we won 24 of 64 games (37.5 percent) over the previous four seasons, combined with our record in the draft and free agency, were the early signs that it would be very challenging season for our new staff.

Q: There have been reports that the Browns regard the termination of Kokinis as "just cause." Could you elaborate on the reasons for his departure?

Lerner: We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time.

Q: Is the departure of Kokinis a reflection of Eric Mangini's judgment?

Lerner: No. It would be unfair to point to Eric in explaining George's departure.

Q: One of the criticisms of your last coaching search was that you seemed in haste to hire Mangini at a time no other team was interviewing him. Do you regret not waiting and thinking it over longer?

Lerner: No, I do not regret the timing of Eric's hire. My priorities in last year's search for head coach were previous coaching experience and a comprehensive plan. I felt that he met those requirements and is also at an age and phase of his career to continue to evolve his style and approach.

Q: Jamal Lewis talked after the Bears game of retiring and appeared like the wind's been sucked out of him by events over the first half of the season. Does it concern you that a player of Lewis' stature would be so frustrated and drained at halfway through the season?

Lerner: I've spent time with Jamal and have gotten to know him. He's frustrated because of how competitive and driven he is. I do believe that he believes in his teammates and the organization and will continue to play hard for the Browns.

Question: Another criticism of your last coaching/GM search was that you hired the coach before hiring the general manager and that would leave the GM beholden to the coach. Do you regret doing that?

Lerner: I don't believe the GM was in anyway beholden to the head coach. They had distinct and clearly articulated duties and responsibilities.

Q: You spoke after the game in Chicago of the urgent priority to have a "strong, credible leader" to oversee the football operations. You had the opportunity to appoint someone in that position in January but you chose not to. Why?

Lerner: I take issue with the word urgent because it could imply that a decision is imminent or could be made hastily. I recall saying it was the "highest priority" and by that I meant that we must have a visible, proven leader on the football side. In regards to why I didn't hire that person in January, the answer is that I expected the GM to evolve into that role.

Q: If you bring in a new leader, what is the future of President Mike Keenan?

Lerner: Mike Keenan does not oversee football operations. He manages the business side and league affairs.

Q: The addition of Bernie Kosar as a consultant. What is his role and what will it be moving forward?

Lerner: Based on Bernie's background in football as well as his friendship and familiarity with people in our building, we asked him to come in and get acquainted with more people and some of the approaches we are taking. As a result, he's been helpful in a number of areas. We have not discussed specific future roles with him, however.

Q: The appearance of Kosar's addition is that he will imbed into things now to make a judgment on Mangini and report back to you. Do you see a scenario where Mangini would not be back in 2010?

Lerner: No.

Q: Dawn Aponte (vice president of football administration) has a low public profile but a much higher one internally. What is her role moving forward?

Lerner: Dawn is a very talented executive and a good person. My hope is that her role and impact will grow within our organization.

Q: Mangini brought in 10 players who played for him with the N.Y. Jets. None of them has been voted to a Pro Bowl. How do you feel about adding so many of his former players?

Lerner: I don't involve myself with personnel decisions.

Q: Kellen Winslow was traded in March and Braylon Edwards was traded in October. With all their warts, they were two offensive players who produced sporadic excitement on the field. These moves enhanced Mangini's reputation of not favoring "star" players. How do you feel about the makeup of your team?

Lerner: The makeup of our team is built on the core values laid-out by the head coach in January. I think that the type of players we have on the team are increasingly reflective of those core values.

Q: Brady Quinn was benched after 2 1/2 games. Do you think he was given a fair shot?

Lerner: Again, I do not get involved with personnel decisions or player evaluations.

Q: The appearance is that Quinn was benched so as not to achieve $11 million in contract incentives based on 70 percent playing time. How much has his contract contributed to his benching?

Lerner: None at all.

Q: Quinn has six starts in three years and now appears to be out of the picture. How do you justify that play time after trading two high draft picks for him?

Lerner: Decisions as they pertain to playing time are made by the head coach.

Q: Did Phil Savage's critical comments last week violate his contract and do you intend to pursue sanctions against him as a result of them?

Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.

Q: Last season ended with six straight losses amid three quarterback injuries. Until that happened the team was 4-6 -- a disappointment, but not a disaster. In retrospect, should last year have been written off just as a bad season without blowing up the organization? Do you ever think you could have stayed status quo one more year?

Lerner: I do not regret the decision that we made at the end of last season and felt the timing was right for a change. There were several factors that led to that decision, including on-field performance and the lack of an overall plan or philosophy.

Q: It's possible that one or more of the Browns remaining home games will be blacked out on local TV because of not selling out. Do you feel that's a sign of the bad economic times or a sign of your fan base's lack of confidence in what's going on? Are you concerned that more local blackouts may happen next season as a result of a bad record in 2009?

Lerner: I believe the risk of a blackout is driven far less by economic conditions and more therefore by the intense frustration of not winning for now five of the last six seasons.

Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?

Lerner: We have a head coach.

Q: You indicated last year that you wouldn't own the team forever if you thought you weren't going to be able to turn it around. As long as the team's record continues to be what it is, you're going to be questioned about the possibility of selling. Is selling a possibility after a season like this?

Lerner: No.

RoethlisBURGHer
11-05-2009, 11:28 AM
Randy Lerner, who I have met in person twice, is a very nice guy.

However, he has no idea how to run a football team. He is very good at the business side of it, but as for the football side of it, he is clueless.

Some people have said, look at what he has done with his soccer team in England, He hasn't done anything, the team was already successful and he has really just left those people in place.

The Browns have not been successful since the 1980's and have damn sure not been successful in the 10 years since they have come back into the league. Lerner has never had the people in place with the Browns to be able to sit back and watch things run smoothly.

And honestly, I don't think that he will ever put those people in place.

revefsreleets
11-05-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't believe almost ANYTHING he says in this article. I think he WILL fire Mangini...and I don't think the team is safe from being sold IF they cannot land a big name, REAL football coach like Cowher.

Fire Haley
11-05-2009, 01:00 PM
The Tar Heels aren't giving Butch Davis back - so you guys can scratch him off your list too.

RoethlisBURGHer
11-05-2009, 01:15 PM
The Tar Heels aren't giving Butch Davis back - so you guys can scratch him off your list too.

I honestly don't think Butch Davis wants to go back to pro football, and I highly doubt Lerner wants him back after everything he did in Cleveland.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
11-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Heard a rumor that the real reason Lerner suddenly got pissed off, and pulled the tunnel stunt+, was that of all people, ROONEY came up to him along with someone else from the NFL and told him to wake the hell up about the Mangini/Kokinis situation and why they aren't NFL material.

Listen to them Randy, they KNOW how to build an NFL organization, one that is a consistant winner. If he's willing to give you a few tips, listen up, get a notepad and write them down.

revefsreleets
11-06-2009, 11:00 AM
Don't know about any of that....BUT, Peter King is reporting (sorry, no link...just read this in a printed out thing in the newsroom) from "League sources familiar with the situation and the key players" (or whatever) that:

A) Kokinis was hoodwinked from the start. In order to get out of his Ratbird contract, he was promised a bunch of control and Mangini actualy had that control from the start.
B) Kokinis knew almost immediately he was on his way out.
C) Mangini dumped the whole debacle of the horribleness of the Browns on his "friend" Kokinis.
D) The Browsn are going to make up a story about how he gave away Browns secrets in order to attempt to void his contract.
E) This ploy will fail.
F) Lerner is pissed at Mangini and Kokinis won't be there to take the fall, and, finally....
G) Mangini is gone 24 hours after the last Browns game

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
11-06-2009, 11:40 AM
Don't know about any of that....BUT, Peter King is reporting (sorry, no link...just read this in a printed out thing in the newsroom) from "League sources familiar with the situation and the key players" (or whatever) that:

A) Kokinis was hoodwinked from the start. In order to get out of his Ratbird contract, he was promised a bunch of control and Mangini actualy had that control from the start.
B) Kokinis knew almost immediately he was on his way out.
C) Mangini dumped the whole debacle of the horribleness of the Browns on his "friend" Kokinis.
D) The Browsn are going to make up a story about how he gave away Browns secrets in order to attempt to void his contract.
E) This ploy will fail.
F) Lerner is pissed at Mangini and Kokinis won't be there to take the fall, and, finally....
G) Mangini is gone 24 hours after the last Browns game

That sounds about right.

Hopefully this finally teaches Lerner to STAY away from Belichick coaches.

I'm curious, who are the Browns going to be hiring after the dust settles? The job is really a mess, but it's not lets say, the Detroit Lions 2008, there's a little bit of talent there to build on if done right.

RoethlisBURGHer
11-06-2009, 01:00 PM
That sounds about right.

Hopefully this finally teaches Lerner to STAY away from Belichick coaches.

I'm curious, who are the Browns going to be hiring after the dust settles? The job is really a mess, but it's not lets say, the Detroit Lions 2008, there's a little bit of talent there to build on if done right.

There isn't much talent.

Josh Cribbs, D'Qwell Jackson, Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, Shaun Rogers, Eric Wright, Dave Zastudil

Cribbs is a beast, but his niche is kick returner. He hasn't shown to be nearly as dynamic as a receiver, and he's a Wildcat runner at best.

Jackson is undersized and full of heart. I am a big fan of his.

Joe Thomas is a franchise tackle.

Steinbach is a very good guard, and the pairing of him and JT is one of he best in the NFL.

Mack is the guy I wanted the Steelers to take if he was available. He's going to be an anchor.

Rogers is a beast. He's nearly unstoppable.

Wright is a good cornerback. There is room to improve, but he's got talent.

Zastudil is one of the best punters in the league.

I really wouldn't put Quinn in the convo because he hasn't shown that he's anything more than a career backup. I think he's better than Anderson....but that isn't saying much.

Massaqoi had that one big game against the Bengals, but hasn't done much since then. Robiske isn't even playing. Stucki isn't any good. Your tight ends are okay, but I wouldn't take either of them for anything but blocking.

Indo
11-06-2009, 01:20 PM
There isn't much talent.

Josh Cribbs, D'Qwell Jackson, Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, Shaun Rogers, Eric Wright, Dave Zastudil

Cribbs is a beast, but his niche is kick returner. He hasn't shown to be nearly as dynamic as a receiver, and he's a Wildcat runner at best.

Jackson is undersized and full of heart. I am a big fan of his.

Joe Thomas is a franchise tackle.

Steinbach is a very good guard, and the pairing of him and JT is one of he best in the NFL.

Mack is the guy I wanted the Steelers to take if he was available. He's going to be an anchor.

Rogers is a beast. He's nearly unstoppable.

Wright is a good cornerback. There is room to improve, but he's got talent.

Zastudil is one of the best punters in the league.

I really wouldn't put Quinn in the convo because he hasn't shown that he's anything more than a career backup. I think he's better than Anderson....but that isn't saying much.

Massaqoi had that one big game against the Bengals, but hasn't done much since then. Robiske isn't even playing. Stucki isn't any good. Your tight ends are okay, but I wouldn't take either of them for anything but blocking.


I agree with most of this, but I do think Massaqoi has got what it takes---he just needs somebody who can get the ball to him on a regular basis

RoethlisBURGHer
11-06-2009, 01:32 PM
I agree with most of this, but I do think Massaqoi has got what it takes---he just needs somebody who can get the ball to him on a regular basis

I like Massaqoi, I just want to see more from him before I say he is a player they can build on/around.

Angus Burgher
11-06-2009, 02:26 PM
That sounds about right.

Hopefully this finally teaches Lerner to STAY away from Belichick coaches.

I'm curious, who are the Browns going to be hiring after the dust settles? The job is really a mess, but it's not lets say, the Detroit Lions 2008, there's a little bit of talent there to build on if done right.

Well, people keep saying that they're going to make a play for Cowher, but I don't see that happening. Not because of some loyalty he may or may not have to the Steelers, but because I think he might end up in Carolina.

Hopefully Mangina will be the last Belicheat disciple that Cleveland takes. Owners really need to look at successful franchises OTHER than New England when they pick a head coach. I still think Gruden, Shottenheimer or Shanahan could help a team in need. But it doesn't seem logical to pick another guy that got canned from another organization, regardless of whether or not it was a fair decision.

MasterOfPuppets
11-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner says Kokinis firing forced by unforeseen events, reaffirms support for coach Eric Mangini
By Tony Grossi
November 04, 2009, 6:15PM

BEREA, Ohio -- Except for a brief chat with reporters following the 30-6 loss in Chicago on Sunday, Browns owner Randy Lerner has stayed out of the media glare while his team has slumped to 1-7.

In his first extended interview since the firing of General Manager George Kokinis, Lerner agreed to answer a list of questions via email. Lerner would not comment on the reasons for the Kokinis firing, but he indicated the need for a "strong, credible leader" is a result of Kokinis' failings as GM. Lerner also said "no" to a question about whether he envisioned changing coaches.
Because of the nature of the interview to which Lerner agreed, follow-up questions were not able to be asked.
Question: The Kokinis firing indicates the Browns are in another state of transition. How do you justify changes being made in-season after only eight games after a complete overhaul in January?
Lerner: My justification for the recent change is that circumstances dictated the action taken and I can assure you they were unforeseen.
Q: Looking back at it, were there any signs early on that this season could spin out of control like it has?
Lerner: It seems to me that the 4-12 record in 2008 and the fact that we won 24 of 64 games (37.5 percent) over the previous four seasons, combined with our record in the draft and free agency, were the early signs that it would be very challenging season for our new staff.
Q: There have been reports that the Browns regard the termination of Kokinis as "just cause." Could you elaborate on the reasons for his departure?
Lerner: We are not at liberty to discuss the details of George's departure at this time.
Q: Is the departure of Kokinis a reflection of Eric Mangini's judgment?
Lerner: No. It would be unfair to point to Eric in explaining George's departure.
Q: One of the criticisms of your last coaching search was that you seemed in haste to hire Mangini at a time no other team was interviewing him. Do you regret not waiting and thinking it over longer?
Lerner: No, I do not regret the timing of Eric's hire. My priorities in last year's search for head coach were previous coaching experience and a comprehensive plan. I felt that he met those requirements and is also at an age and phase of his career to continue to evolve his style and approach.
Q: Jamal Lewis talked after the Bears game of retiring and appeared like the wind's been sucked out of him by events over the first half of the season. Does it concern you that a player of Lewis' stature would be so frustrated and drained at halfway through the season?
Lerner: I've spent time with Jamal and have gotten to know him. He's frustrated because of how competitive and driven he is. I do believe that he believes in his teammates and the organization and will continue to play hard for the Browns.
Question: Another criticism of your last coaching/GM search was that you hired the coach before hiring the general manager and that would leave the GM beholden to the coach. Do you regret doing that?
Lerner: I don't believe the GM was in anyway beholden to the head coach. They had distinct and clearly articulated duties and responsibilities.
Q: You spoke after the game in Chicago of the urgent priority to have a "strong, credible leader" to oversee the football operations. You had the opportunity to appoint someone in that position in January but you chose not to. Why?
Lerner: I take issue with the word urgent because it could imply that a decision is imminent or could be made hastily. I recall saying it was the "highest priority" and by that I meant that we must have a visible, proven leader on the football side. In regards to why I didn't hire that person in January, the answer is that I expected the GM to evolve into that role.
Q: If you bring in a new leader, what is the future of President Mike Keenan?
Lerner: Mike Keenan does not oversee football operations. He manages the business side and league affairs.
Q: The addition of Bernie Kosar as a consultant. What is his role and what will it be moving forward?
Lerner: Based on Bernie's background in football as well as his friendship and familiarity with people in our building, we asked him to come in and get acquainted with more people and some of the approaches we are taking. As a result, he's been helpful in a number of areas. We have not discussed specific future roles with him, however.
Q: The appearance of Kosar's addition is that he will imbed into things now to make a judgment on Mangini and report back to you. Do you see a scenario where Mangini would not be back in 2010?
Lerner: No.
Q: Dawn Aponte (vice president of football administration) has a low public profile but a much higher one internally. What is her role moving forward?
Lerner: Dawn is a very talented executive and a good person. My hope is that her role and impact will grow within our organization.
Q: Mangini brought in 10 players who played for him with the N.Y. Jets. None of them has been voted to a Pro Bowl. How do you feel about adding so many of his former players?
Lerner: I don't involve myself with personnel decisions.
Q: Kellen Winslow was traded in March and Braylon Edwards was traded in October. With all their warts, they were two offensive players who produced sporadic excitement on the field. These moves enhanced Mangini's reputation of not favoring "star" players. How do you feel about the makeup of your team?
Lerner: The makeup of our team is built on the core values laid-out by the head coach in January. I think that the type of players we have on the team are increasingly reflective of those core values.
Q: Brady Quinn was benched after 2 1/2 games. Do you think he was given a fair shot?
Lerner: Again, I do not get involved with personnel decisions or player evaluations.
Q: The appearance is that Quinn was benched so as not to achieve $11 million in contract incentives based on 70 percent playing time. How much has his contract contributed to his benching?
Lerner: None at all.
Q: Quinn has six starts in three years and now appears to be out of the picture. How do you justify that play time after trading two high draft picks for him?
Lerner: Decisions as they pertain to playing time are made by the head coach.
Q: Did Phil Savage's critical comments last week violate his contract and do you intend to pursue sanctions against him as a result of them?
Lerner: On whether Savage violated his contract or not, I have no comment. I do believe that by having voluntarily weighed in on our current situation, he has invited a hard look at the decisions he made during his four years with the Browns.
Q: Last season ended with six straight losses amid three quarterback injuries. Until that happened the team was 4-6 -- a disappointment, but not a disaster. In retrospect, should last year have been written off just as a bad season without blowing up the organization? Do you ever think you could have stayed status quo one more year?
Lerner: I do not regret the decision that we made at the end of last season and felt the timing was right for a change. There were several factors that led to that decision, including on-field performance and the lack of an overall plan or philosophy.
Q: It's possible that one or more of the Browns remaining home games will be blacked out on local TV because of not selling out. Do you feel that's a sign of the bad economic times or a sign of your fan base's lack of confidence in what's going on? Are you concerned that more local blackouts may happen next season as a result of a bad record in 2009?
Lerner: I believe the risk of a blackout is driven far less by economic conditions and more therefore by the intense frustration of not winning for now five of the last six seasons.
Q: When you visited with Bill Cowher last year, he said he wasn't ready to return to coaching in 2009 but asked, half-jokingly, "can you wait a year?" Would you revisit the possibility of Cowher coaching the Browns?
Lerner: We have a head coach.
Q: You indicated last year that you wouldn't own the team forever if you thought you weren't going to be able to turn it around. As long as the team's record continues to be what it is, you're going to be questioned about the possibility of selling. Is selling a possibility after a season like this?
Lerner: No.

:doh:

MasterOfPuppets
11-06-2009, 03:00 PM
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Eric Mangini said he'll have input into the hiring of the new general manager of the Browns.
Mangini's first hand-picked general manager, George Kokinis, parted ways with the Browns on Monday, with no word from either side on whether he was fired or resigned.
Yea, Randy and I talk a lot, so Im sure well be very engaged in that (decision),'' said Mangini.
Asked if it would hard to add a GM midway through the NFL season, he said, "we're just going through the process, so Im not sure how that will all play out. We have to really see whats there, see whats available.
He indicated that the Browns have strong enough pro and college departments to function without a GM for the rest of the season.
"I'm not sure what the timetable will be, but I do feel good about the process we have in place and the different departments we have in place,'' he said.
He said he has no doubt the team can operate efficiently right now without a GM. According to several league sources, Kokinis' role was reduced so much that things won't operate much differently than they did with him here over the past few months.
I do feel good about all the things that we have in place, in terms of the pro department, the college department, the structures, the systems there,'' said Mangini. "The things mechanically, in terms of dealing with agents or transactions, I think (Vice President of Football Administration) Dawn Aponte is excellent at those things, so I feel strongly about our ability to function effectively in all of those areas.
Aponte, who worked directly under Kokinis, joined the Browns this season after spending the last three in the NFL office, where she served on the League's Management Council as the Vice President of Labor Finance. With the Browns, Aponte negotiates player contracts, manages the salary cap and handles other legal matters. She huddled with Browns owner Randy Lerner for awhile after Sunday's 30-6 loss to the Bears, the night before Kokinis left the building for good.

sounds like he's staying to me...:noidea:

KeiselPower99
11-06-2009, 03:15 PM
I thought the Gm was to pick the coach?

MasterOfPuppets
11-06-2009, 03:21 PM
I thought the Gm was to pick the coach?

and i thought the point was to build a team that can win.... so whats your point ? this is the browns we're talkin about here....:chuckle:

revefsreleets
11-06-2009, 03:37 PM
Cuz that worked out so well the FIRST time they tried it...

tony hipchest
11-06-2009, 07:45 PM
Massaqoi had that one big game against the Bengals, but hasn't done much since then. Robiske isn't even playing. Stucki isn't any good. Your tight ends are okay, but I wouldn't take either of them for anything but blocking.

this puzzles me. i thought (based on a ton of professional talking heads and scouts opinions) that robiskie would maybe not be the most skilled or talented, but the most intelligent, professional, and nfl ready wr in this years draft. but with 1 catch through 6 games for 23 yds, the 2nd round pick (36th overall, has been a bust). he's on pace for 3 receptions and 30+ drops in his first year and a half.

perhaps theres a pee-wee league that can use his leadership skills or something.

I agree with most of this, but I do think Massaqoi has got what it takes---he just needs somebody who can get the ball to him on a regular basis even when someone has put the money right on the money, he has dropped a ton of passes just like all the other brownies. braylon edwards led the league in drops last year and he was drafted as top 10 talent. even the year before when he had a ton of td's (and the same qb/scheme and team mates) he was dropping balls (the only thing he's got going for him is he's not yet considered a david terrell type bust yet, and being removed from the shithole of cleveland may salvage his career- doubt it though).

KeiselPower99
11-06-2009, 11:12 PM
and i thought the point was to build a team that can win.... so whats your point ? this is the browns we're talkin about here....:chuckle:

very true

RoethlisBURGHer
11-06-2009, 11:57 PM
this puzzles me. i thought (based on a ton of professional talking heads and scouts opinions) that robiskie would maybe not be the most skilled or talented, but the most intelligent, professional, and nfl ready wr in this years draft. but with 1 catch through 6 games for 23 yds, the 2nd round pick (36th overall, has been a bust). he's on pace for 3 receptions and 30+ drops in his first year and a half.

perhaps theres a pee-wee league that can use his leadership skills or something.

even when someone has put the money right on the money, he has dropped a ton of passes just like all the other brownies. braylon edwards led the league in drops last year and he was drafted as top 10 talent. even the year before when he had a ton of td's (and the same qb/scheme and team mates) he was dropping balls (the only thing he's got going for him is he's not yet considered a david terrell type bust yet, and being removed from the shithole of cleveland may salvage his career- doubt it though).

With Robiske, what I have heard as that the coaches don't feel he's as athletic as Massaqoi, and that's why Massaqoi is starting over him.

The thing is, Robiske has NEVER been known for being a great athlete. He's average at best when it comes to making huge 'OMG!!!! DID YOU JUST SEE THAT!" plays....but he has good hands and runs crisp routes.

So that tells me that the Browns staff did a poor job scouting Robiske. Honestly, that's not much of a surprise.

revefsreleets
11-07-2009, 09:58 PM
this puzzles me. i thought (based on a ton of professional talking heads and scouts opinions) that robiskie would maybe not be the most skilled or talented, but the most intelligent, professional, and nfl ready wr in this years draft. but with 1 catch through 6 games for 23 yds, the 2nd round pick (36th overall, has been a bust). he's on pace for 3 receptions and 30+ drops in his first year and a half.

perhaps theres a pee-wee league that can use his leadership skills or something.

even when someone has put the money right on the money, he has dropped a ton of passes just like all the other brownies. braylon edwards led the league in drops last year and he was drafted as top 10 talent. even the year before when he had a ton of td's (and the same qb/scheme and team mates) he was dropping balls (the only thing he's got going for him is he's not yet considered a david terrell type bust yet, and being removed from the shithole of cleveland may salvage his career- doubt it though).


You were warned to stop. Just calling attention to this FACT.

tony hipchest
11-07-2009, 10:13 PM
You were warned to stop. Just calling attention to this FACT.:huh: stop what? talkin football?

get real. fwiw, i was mega high on robiskie. shame on me for getting sucked in.

revefsreleets
11-07-2009, 10:17 PM
:huh: stop what? talkin football?

get real. fwiw, i was mega high on robiskie. shame on me for getting sucked in.


You win.

Enjoy.

RodWoodsonwasprettycool
11-08-2009, 12:34 AM
Just five months after walking away from the Seattle Seahawks, Mike Holmgren says he already has the itch to get back to football, and he expects to be in the league in some capacity in 2010.

Holmgren told KJR in Seattle (via Sports Radio Interviews) that he was so excited during NFL draft weekend that he had to remind himself that he's no longer part of any NFL team.
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"I really had to check myself and say, 'Listen, I'm don't have to get all worked up like this anymore for this right now,'" Holmgren said. "One of my purposes of taking a year off was one, how I would react to that and then kind of decide after that and react to that and see what the future held. You do something for so long and enjoy it so much, I think that's human nature that you're going to miss it."

It's interesting that Holmgren makes a point of referring to what he's doing now as "taking a year off." This is the first year of Holmgren's life that he hasn't been involved in football in some capacity, and it sounds like one year is going to be enough for him.

But what capacity will Holmgren return in? Although he's a Super Bowl-winning coach and could find a head-coaching gig if he wants one, he says he's open to working in a front office rather than on the sidelines.

"I plan to go back to work," Holmgren said. "Now, where and what capacity that is really pretty vague. I'm going to be open. I'm looking at the hires recently and they're hiring young coaches for one thing, and I'm a little bit of a dinosaur. I am going to be open to about any possibility."

Although Holmgren's final season in Seattle was a disappointing one, I don't think he's a dinosaur at all. He's a sharp football mind, and whatever team hires him in 2010 will be glad it did.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/05/13/mike-holmgren-ill-be-back-in-2010/

Interesting...Interesting.