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tony hipchest
11-12-2009, 10:04 PM
we have all heard the tales of nfl players who cash in big, get fat and happy with the feeling that they have "arrived" and their production tanks.

not with the steelers. anyone still worried that james harrisons play may slip, now that he has been paid? how bout heath miller? both are now paid amongst the leagues elite at their position.

of course many were paid and extended without being made rich relative to their peers.

anyone bitch about the money max starks is making this year? how bout the extension given to hartwig, when most people were calling for a center to be taken with the 1st pick in the '09 draft? kemoeatu could have left for more money from the jets. how thankful of his loyalty to the steelers are you now?

then there is james farrior who was too old, or as steelerfans love to say "on the wrong side of 30" to be extended. yet there he is still leading the team in tackles.

keisel is another who was supposedly getting long in the tooth whos replacement needed to be found, yet he is filling in admirably for aaron smith. as good as he has been as a starter, people have always found the holes in his game (primarily that he wasnt a pro bowler like smith or hampton).

then of course there is hines, who is having one of his finest seasons ever. granted he took a paycut, but he was given the guarantee, and the extension to virtually assure he retires a steeler.

and lets not forget securing keyeron fox, who has filled in just fine for the highest 1st round draft pick we have had since big ben.

speaking of ben, none of this should come to any suprise. he only rewarded the team and fans with their 6th superbowl title the year he became the $100,000,000 man.

and troy has been the gift that keeps on giving ever since signing his extension 3 seasons ago. his is possibly one of the most important steeler extensions ever (especially considering the debate was to keep him of future hall of famer, alan faneca).

its pretty remarkable to have so many "hits" and not a single "miss", especially when you look at all the money the other teams hand out every year, only to realize it was a waste. (albert haynesworth anyone? any player signed by the raiders?)

Preacher
11-12-2009, 11:03 PM
My only problem with your writeup Tony---

Is with Albert Hayneworth and Washington.

Why single him out? Who was the last guy washington paid that played better after he was paid then before he was paid? :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
11-12-2009, 11:20 PM
kiesel is filling in for smith ? :huh: i'm pretty sure he's still on the right side... kirshkie,hoke, and hood are filling in at smith's position on the left....

tony hipchest
11-12-2009, 11:55 PM
kiesel is filling in for smith ? :huh: i'm pretty sure he's still on the right side... kirshkie,hoke, and hood are filling in at smith's position on the left....nope. its either the best or worst kept secret in the nfl right now (depending on how you look at it)

bretts strip/sack/fumble on favre came from smiths spot.

2 sacks against orton on mnf came from smiths spot.

keisel has been lining up on the left side with james harrison for the better part of 4-5 weeks now (definitely 3 games). keep in mind rookie hood was primarily trained as the back up to keisel. kirchke is out.

eason and hood have been filling in for keisel on the right side and he has taken over aarons spot.


shhhhhhh.... i dont want our opponents to catch on as long as they are coming into games thinking they have a distinct advantage.

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2009, 12:01 AM
nope. its either the best or worst kept secret in the nfl right now (depending on how you look at it)

bretts strip/sack/fumble on favre came from smiths spot.

2 sacks against orton on mnf came from smiths spot.

keisel has been lining up on the left side with james harrison for the better part of 4-5 weeks now (definitely 3 games). keep in mind rookie hood was primarily trained as the back up to keisel. kirchke is out.

eason and hood have been filling in for keisel on the right side and he has taken over aarons spot.


shhhhhhh.... i dont want our opponents to catch on as long as they are coming into games thinking they have a distinct advantage.

keisel has always lined up on the same side as harrison ....:noidea:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/depthchart?team=PIT

i don't recall ever seeing him line up beside woodley.

tony hipchest
11-13-2009, 12:04 AM
and it makes sense if you think about it. aaron smith is like troy polamalu on defense. he is one of our most dificult players to replace if injured.

who is better equipped to replace such an important cog? keisel, or hood/kirchke/eason?

as seen last year when keisel was injured, it is much easer to replace him on the right side, and shift him over to aarons spot.

lebeau is the freaking man (and so is brett).

tony hipchest
11-13-2009, 12:13 AM
keisel has always lined up on the same side as harrison ....:noidea:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/depthchart?team=PIT

i don't recall ever seeing him line up beside woodley.this is our typical 3-4-

timmons/foote/farrior as the inside lb's and these guys up on the line-

harrison... smith...hampton...keisel... woodley

this is how its always been even if it was-

porter... smith...hampton...keisel...haggans

porter...smith...hampton...vonoelhoffen..haggans

lloyd was always rushing the left tackle and green rushing the right....

the chart you linked clearly shows that keisel is now lining up strongside (on the offenses left side) right next to harrison.

this is (and has been) aaron smiths position for many years.

MACH1
11-13-2009, 12:26 AM
Umm we lost John Kuhn. :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2009, 01:13 AM
this is our typical 3-4-

timmons/foote/farrior as the inside lb's and these guys up on the line-

harrison... smith...hampton...keisel... woodley

this is how its always been even if it was-

porter... smith...hampton...keisel...haggans

porter...smith...hampton...vonoelhoffen..haggans

lloyd was always rushing the left tackle and green rushing the right....

the chart you linked clearly shows that keisel is now lining up strongside (on the offenses left side) right next to harrison.

this is (and has been) aaron smiths position for many years.

ya got it backwards dude....

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8459/84661328.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/84661328.jpg/)

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8443/superbowlxliiiaf5b.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/superbowlxliiiaf5b.jpg/)

[http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2647/texansgame.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/texansgame.jpg/)

here smith is between hampton and woodley

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2030/437524067t613.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/437524067t613.jpg/)

tony hipchest
11-13-2009, 01:31 AM
ya got it backwards dude....
nope. im talking about base defense in their 3-4 set.


smith is on the offenses left side just like harrison typically is.

keisel is on the right, along with woodley.

we all know players must be interchangable to earn a starting spot in lebeaus scheme though. thats what makes it so great.

smith and harrison are 2 of our best defenders and that is why they play strong side.

Nick Eason will replace Kirschke, who replaced Aaron Smith as the starting left defensive end. Brett Keisel starts at right defensive end. Hood and Harris are the only other ends on their roster. Harris, of course, was not on their roster until two weeks ago because they cut him, Carolina claimed him and they got him back when the Panthers released him.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09309/1010976-66.stm#ixzz0Wie0onR8


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Smith_%28American_football%29

Aaron Douglas Smith (born April 9, 1976 in Colorado Springs, Colorado) is a professional American football player with the Pittsburgh Steelers in the National Football League. He plays left defensive end in a 3-4 defensive alignment.

Shea
11-13-2009, 01:39 AM
I was confused about where Keisel was lining up in Denver because he use to fill in for Aaron before he became a starter.

But I'm pretty sure that the left side was paired up with Woodley and Aaron. I remember reading an article where Aaron was talking about how Woodley and he needed to communicate more on the field, pretty much Aaron's sentiments were that Woodley needed to make sure he was talking amongst the two so that they were on the same page.

And Harrison is consistently going up against the opposing teams offensive left tackle, that means he's lining up on the right side.

MasterOfPuppets
11-13-2009, 02:11 AM
Nick Eason will replace Kirschke, who replaced Aaron Smith as the starting left defensive end. Brett Keisel starts at right defensive end. Hood and Harris are the only other ends on their roster. Harris, of course, was not on their roster until two weeks ago because they cut him, Carolina claimed him and they got him back when the Panthers released him.
notice keisel IS on the right side of the ball and smith is on the left side of the ball in the pics...


Quote:
Aaron Douglas Smith (born April 9, 1976 in Colorado Springs, Colorado) is a professional American football player with the Pittsburgh Steelers in the National Football League. He plays left defensive end in a 3-4 defensive alignment. ok...it says kirshke replacing smith and eason replacing kirshkie...not keisel replacing smith or kirshke.... smith is a left defensive end..he lines up to the LEFT OF THE BALL...just like keisel lines up to the RIGHT OF THE BALL....just like the pictures show... lining up on the left tackle doesn't make harrison a left outside linebacker.. he lines up on the right side of the ball so he's a right outside linebacker. i can find a ton of pictures showing keisel lined up next to harrison, but not one where he lines up next to woodley...maybe you can provide that one...:noidea:

solardave
11-13-2009, 04:34 AM
My only problem with your writeup Tony---

Is with Albert Hayneworth and Washington.

Why single him out? Who was the last guy washington paid that played better after he was paid then before he was paid? :chuckle:
You would have to look at 10 years (or however long Snyder has owned them) of Redskins free agents to see bust after bust.

I think the reason some people hate the Steelers is because we pull off the extensions and keep the wheels on the Bus going round and round.Year after year.:tt04: These players appreciate the way they are treated like men and we get rewarded with key players making key plays game in and game out. It's a win/win situation. No, it's a :hatsoff:win/win/win because like I said,as fans we also get rewarded.

Mr. Goosemahn
11-13-2009, 04:53 AM
nope. im talking about base defense in their 3-4 set.


smith is on the offenses left side just like harrison typically is.

keisel is on the right, along with woodley.

we all know players must be interchangable to earn a starting spot in lebeaus scheme though. thats what makes it so great.

smith and harrison are 2 of our best defenders and that is why they play strong side.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Smith_%28American_football%29

You have to see it from the defense's point of view, not the offense's.

It's like this:

---------LDE: Smith----------NT: Hampton----------RDE: Keisel---------
---LOLB: Woodley---ILB: Farrior---ILB: Timmons---ROLB: Harrison--
CB: Gay------------------------------------------------------------------CB: Taylor
---------------------SS: Polamalu------------FS: Clark---------------------------

Harrison always plays on the offense's left side, he's the blindside pass-rusher, right in front of Keiseil.

Woodley always plays on the offense's right side, right behind Smith.

It's on their position names:

Woodley is a Left Outside Linebacker.
Smith is a Left Defensive End.

Harrison is a Right Outside Linebacker.
Keisel is our Right Defensive End.

Again, you have to look at it from the defensive side.

Here are some more pictures:

- Notice Casey Hampton (#98) and Chris Hoke (#76) in the middle.
- To Hampton's left is Aaron Smith (#91) followed by Clark Haggans (#53). Woodley is Haggans' replacement.
- To Hoke's right is Brett Keisel (#99), followed presumably by Joey Porter. Harrison is Porter's replacement.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Chiefs_and_Steelers_lineup.jpg

Here's a picture from the Superbowl:

Again, seeing everything from the defensive point of view:
- Notice that Harrison is to the far right, closest to Keisel.
- Woodley is to the far left, closest to Smith.

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/84661328.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19346E4C5E9CA0732618FA5D8F45EA35705 B01E70F2B3269972

Here's a picture of Harrison:

- Notice how he's lined up and what direction he's facing. He's turning left to look at the QB, meaning that he has to be lined up on the defense's right side, behind Keisel.

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/84383767.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19346E4C5E9CA07326127786B9BB5B34D76 B01E70F2B3269972

Here's another picture:

- Notice Hampton in the middle, and Smith battling at the top of the picture.
- Keisel (#99) arrived from the right side, together with Porter. As previously stated, Harrison is Porter's replacement and therefore both are aligned on the same side.

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/81443993.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC9AA786889B1E28DE 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

And finally, here's the highlight reel of our game vs. the Vikings. The Keisel fumble play starts at the 2:05 mark.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-vikings/09000d5d813aec04/NFL-Scoreboard-Vikings-Steelers-highlights

Take a close look to see how the defense is aligned.

Yet again, looking at things from the defense's perspective, the line of scrimmage looks as follows:

LOLB Woodley (#56) ---- LDE Nick Eason (#93) ----- RDE Brett Keisel (#99) ----- ROLB Harrison (#99)

Harrison blitzes from the right and takes on the VIkings' left tackle Bryant McKinnie, while Brett Keisel (lined up next to Harrison) takes on their left guard Steve Hutchinson. Eason takes on both the Vikings center John Sullivan and right guard Anthony Herrera. Woodley winds up against their left tackle, Phil Loadholt.

Keisel steps up into the pocket from the defenses right side, or Favre's left side. He passes behind McKinnie, who's focused on Harrison, and outruns Hutchinson.

Favre is hit from his left side (and behind him) and Woodley, who was reaching Favre in the opposite direction than Keisel's, finds the ball moving in the same direction as him. He scoops it up and then runs to the endzone.

All of this is clearer on the close up replay, which starts at the 2:28 mark.

You can also see the play where Fox's interception happened, found at the 3:28 mark.

The defense is aligned in the following way:

LOLB Woodley (#56) ---- LDE Ziggy Hood (#96) ----- RDE Brett Keisel (#99) ----- ROLB Harrison (#99)

Keisel clearly lines up alongside Harrison in our defense, no matter the package, while Smith (or whoever replaces him) plays alongside Woodley.