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mesaSteeler
11-16-2009, 07:07 AM
Bengals' special-teams TD 'unacceptable'
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_653415.html#
By Kevin Gorman
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, November 16, 2009

When Josh Cribbs returned a kickoff for a touchdown against the Steelers, it was because he's the NFL's top special-teams talent. When Percy Harvin did the same, it was because he's the league's most dynamic rookie.

So, how to explain Cincinnati's Bernard Scott?

The Steelers could only call it "unacceptable."

That was Stefan Logan's response to Scott's 96-yard kickoff return in the first quarter, the only touchdown scored Sunday, as the Bengals beat the Steelers, 18-12, in a pivotal AFC North Division game at Heinz Field.

"Any time you allow people to score touchdowns and your defense is not on the field, (then) you expose yourself to losing football," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "You can't miss two tackles on a kickoff in the NFL. If you do, chances are they're going back on you."

After the Steelers took a 3-0 lead on Jeff Reed's 28-yard field goal, Scott fielded the ensuing kickoff near the right sideline. The rookie running back, a sixth-round pick from Abilene Christian, evaded Keyaron Fox and burst up the middle before bouncing toward the left sideline. He split between Reed and Logan to give the Bengals a 6-3 lead at 4:26 of the first quarter.

"It's very frustrating because those are the kind of plays that make people start pointing fingers," Reed said. "In this business, when you point fingers, your success level goes down. It wasn't one person's fault."

It did account, however, for the difference in the score.

"It did make a difference," safety Ryan Mundy said, "but we can't blame the loss on that one play."

Even so, the Steelers aren't willing to accept their kick-coverage woes.

"One is too many," Mundy said, "because we had zero last year."

That the Steelers have allowed three kickoff returns for touchdowns in a span of four games is not only a cause for concern but perhaps the final straw for a special-teams unit that has continually come up short.

"Coach has to go back in the lab and evaluate some people," said Logan, who didn't specify whether he was talking about Tomlin or special-teams coach Bob Ligashesky. "I'm sure they're going to make some switches."

Kevin Gorman can be reached at kgorman@tribweb.com or 412-320-7812.

4xSBChamps
11-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Even so, the Steelers aren't willing to accept their kick-coverage woes.

recent events beg to differ

:noidea:

KeiselPower99
11-16-2009, 08:58 AM
Is it just me but wasnt there a block in the back as soon as he picked up the ball on Logan?

scsteeler
11-16-2009, 09:07 AM
Kick off return for TD's are the Achilles's heel for the Steelers now. Hopefully this improves. Still a lot of football to be played.

HometownGal
11-16-2009, 09:11 AM
"Coach has to go back in the lab and evaluate some people," said Logan, who didn't specify whether he was talking about Tomlin or special-teams coach Bob Ligashesky. "I'm sure they're going to make some switches."


No doubt about it that our ST's needs an overhaul and a very quick fix. Maybe they should put a couple more of our D starters on ST's temporarily until they can find an answer. :hunch: I know that sets them up more for injuries, but the stretch is coming upon us soon and we have to find an answer.

Justin Otstott
11-16-2009, 09:52 AM
Might sound corny but I fuc*ing hate Jeff Reed! Man dont tackle, takes pics of his freaking penis, wears this clown looking hair style! PLEASE LEAVE REED! lol

Edman
11-16-2009, 09:56 AM
So now it's "unacceptable"? These shitacular special teams have been going on for weeks, and now it's unacceptable?

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-16-2009, 10:06 AM
Might sound corny but I fuc*ing hate Jeff Reed! Man dont tackle, takes pics of his freaking penis, wears this clown looking hair style! PLEASE LEAVE REED! lol

I have several things "against" Reed right now....

1) Off the field issues....dont be an ass-clown. You represent the best team in all of sports, act accordingly.

2) Overestimating his own "contractual" worth....Not to say that he isnt a good kicker, but be realistic about your value...Your a kicker, not a blue chip QB!!!

3) Unwillinness to tackle....I mean, if our $100 million dollar QB can throw his body into a defensive back...so can the freaking kicker!!!!...and if you can't tackle..get the F**k out of the way and quit lead blocking for him!!!!

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-16-2009, 10:10 AM
So now it's "unacceptable"? These shitacular special teams have been going on for weeks, and now it's unacceptable?

I'm not sure if I have ever seen a post that says our special teams letting the other team score is..."acceptable"
:noidea:

plenewken
11-16-2009, 11:02 AM
3) Unwillinness to tackle....I mean, if our $100 million dollar QB can throw his body into a defensive back...so can the freaking kicker!!!!...and if you can't tackle..get the F**k out of the way and quit lead blocking for him!!!!

100% agree with you. This punk needs be reminded of what it takes to remain a Steelers. . His zero effort during the KO return is unacceptable. So some guys think he's not paid to tackle? WTF? Neither is Roethlisberger and he doesn't mind doing it when it's necessary. Remember against Indy in 2006?

If at least his kick-offs were long with the correct hang time.......................... Last Monday in Denver , despite the altitude, he's never hit one in the end zone.

TX Steelerfan
11-16-2009, 11:17 AM
Is Reed a knucklehead off the field? Yes. Should Reed make a better attempt at tackling? Yes. Do I blame Reed for this or any other loss that did not come down to one of his FG's? No.

Reed has been clutch for this team. If it comes down to a last-second 35 yd FG attempt to win a game in the playoffs, I feel comfortable with Reed kicking it.

Fire Haley
11-16-2009, 11:23 AM
Steelers ST's have had 7 games with a return TD against them already - that must be some kind of a record.

eafratitpm3
11-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Has he ever had a touch back, I know he's never touched a back when trying to tackle. I thought for sure he would kick one in the end zone in Denver but he struggled to make it to the goal line at 6000 Ft. Maybe we can sign David Beckham for a couple of games, lol. I heard rumors that Sepulveda can kick off, if this is the case why not use him for kick offs and Jackoff Reed, I mean Jeff Reed for FGs. Bottom line is something needs to be done, I remember a few games back when Tomlin addressed the issue to the Media he said we will change things even if it's personnel changes. I thought he meant he was going to change things for the better. As for Logan, I would have bet money that he would have already taken one to the house but he hasn't done jack.

plenewken
11-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Is Reed a knucklehead off the field? Yes. Should Reed make a better attempt at tackling? Yes. Do I blame Reed for this or any other loss that did not come down to one of his FG's? No.

Reed has been clutch for this team. If it comes down to a last-second 35 yd FG attempt to win a game in the playoffs, I feel comfortable with Reed kicking it.

Don't you remember that he singlehandedly lost us the game in Chicago by missing 2 FGs ?
You also forget to mention that in order for him to kick a winning 35 yd FG, someone has to bring the ball to the opponent's 18 yds line. Sorry but that's far more difficult to do than to kick a friggin' ball.
I'm not blaming him for this loss but I'm blaming him for another subpar performance in KOs and a total lack of effort on the returns.
Wasn't it one of HIS numerous lousy kick-offs that they returned? Then he should be the first to try to correct his mistake instead of wondering if he's paid for doing it.
Ben ain't paid to tackle either and he did it. We wouldn't have won the Superbowl in 2006 if Ben didn't tackle the Colts player who was returning Bettis' fumble on the goal line.
Reed's a punk and there are many guys with as much kicking skills and a much better attitude on and off the field. Hope we let him go at the end of the season. He's definitely not worth what he's paid now.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-16-2009, 01:30 PM
Is Reed a knucklehead off the field? Yes. Should Reed make a better attempt at tackling? Yes. Do I blame Reed for this or any other loss that did not come down to one of his FG's? No.

Reed has been clutch for this team. If it comes down to a last-second 35 yd FG attempt to win a game in the playoffs, I feel comfortable with Reed kicking it.

I appreciate Reeds talent...really I do. I am VERY grateful for his contribution towards two Lombardies.

BUT as a member of the FO...the combination of immature antics, contract demands, and unwillingness top play EVERY aspect of the game, would have me looking very hard at kickers in the draft class of 2010.

You might get away with certain things as a blue chip player...but aging, head case. prima dona kickers, regardless of talent, are replaceable.

revefsreleets
11-16-2009, 02:27 PM
Is it just me but wasnt there a block in the back as soon as he picked up the ball on Logan?

I counted 4...and then the refs decided to throw the flag ona bunch of ensuing KR's and PR's that did NOT result in TD's that had less blatant offenses.

BUT that is no excuse...that shit happens all the time, and you've got to learn to play through it and it still doesn't explain why Reed's kicks were short or why nobody on the ST seems to be able to make an open field tackle....

Edman
11-16-2009, 02:31 PM
I think this is Jeff Reed's last horrah in Pittsburgh. I thank him for everything he's done like solving our Heinz Field FG woes, but he hasn't done much to warrant a new contract.

AllD
11-16-2009, 02:32 PM
Is it just me but wasnt there a block in the back as soon as he picked up the ball on Logan?

I called it in the game day thread right after it happened. Somebody took Logan out in the back just as he was closing in on the runner. Refs were watching the Goodyear blimp, but they somehow managed to see similar penalties in the following kick returns

I think word got down that they "missed" the block in the back on Logan and tried to make it up on the next kicks. Cost us six points. We still had plenty of ways to win the game, but it just goes to show the refs are definitely not in the Steelers' pockets, it's usually the exact opposite.

It is psychologically tough to keep coming back when you are unfairly put in a hole. But football, like life, is unfair and good teams still find a way to win. Remember the BS holding call on our center in the SB which cost us a safety?

Maybe this team needs a sense of urgency to play a game. Winning two SBs in the last 4 years might make them mentally lazy. I think they are missing the point of having an opportunity to repeat and put a friggen exclamation point on all the haters.

TheRuneMeister
11-16-2009, 03:22 PM
I know that the 3 return TD's this year is the flagship of this issue. However, they were returning for great field position all night. It wasn't one ST play...it was pretty much all of them. The fact that they were held to field goals all night shows how hard the defense actually worked.
There is no doubt that there is a huge problem on special teams. Especially on kick-offs.

Davison_K
11-16-2009, 03:47 PM
This might be a dumb question, but I am going to ask anyway. Why doesn't Pittsburgh use Sep for kickoffs? Have they tried it? I just think that he at least has the balls to run down the field and make a tackle where as Reed seems to lack them. Sep is a former linebacker. If he has the ability to kick the ball decently deep why not try it? Worst case scenario we have someone who is at least willing to make a tackle if need be. Granted there are other issues that need to be addressed. I just feel that Sep might at least give us something as far as a kicker (punter in this case) who is willing to make the tackle if he is needed to.

rich4eagle
11-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Bengals' special-teams TD 'unacceptable'
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_653415.html#
By Kevin Gorman
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, November 16, 2009

When Josh Cribbs returned a kickoff for a touchdown against the Steelers, it was because he's the NFL's top special-teams talent. When Percy Harvin did the same, it was because he's the league's most dynamic rookie.

So, how to explain Cincinnati's Bernard Scott?

The Steelers could only call it "unacceptable."

That was Stefan Logan's response to Scott's 96-yard kickoff return in the first quarter, the only touchdown scored Sunday, as the Bengals beat the Steelers, 18-12, in a pivotal AFC North Division game at Heinz Field.

"Any time you allow people to score touchdowns and your defense is not on the field, (then) you expose yourself to losing football," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "You can't miss two tackles on a kickoff in the NFL. If you do, chances are they're going back on you."

After the Steelers took a 3-0 lead on Jeff Reed's 28-yard field goal, Scott fielded the ensuing kickoff near the right sideline. The rookie running back, a sixth-round pick from Abilene Christian, evaded Keyaron Fox and burst up the middle before bouncing toward the left sideline. He split between Reed and Logan to give the Bengals a 6-3 lead at 4:26 of the first quarter.

"It's very frustrating because those are the kind of plays that make people start pointing fingers," Reed said. "In this business, when you point fingers, your success level goes down. It wasn't one person's fault."

It did account, however, for the difference in the score.

"It did make a difference," safety Ryan Mundy said, "but we can't blame the loss on that one play."

Even so, the Steelers aren't willing to accept their kick-coverage woes.

"One is too many," Mundy said, "because we had zero last year."

That the Steelers have allowed three kickoff returns for touchdowns in a span of four games is not only a cause for concern but perhaps the final straw for a special-teams unit that has continually come up short.

"Coach has to go back in the lab and evaluate some people," said Logan, who didn't specify whether he was talking about Tomlin or special-teams coach Bob Ligashesky. "I'm sure they're going to make some switches."

Kevin Gorman can be reached at kgorman@tribweb.com or 412-320-7812.

I started a thread on this subject. Basically, saying it was unacceptable. Mr. Reed is ignoring his duty as the last resort...NOT TO TACKLE, NOT TO MAKE A PLAY, but geez, just slow the man down!

Our leader, as great as she is deemed two threads on this subject unacceptable.........and that is disturbing

Jeff Reed waved again .............worse never even was considered as an obstacle.......at least Harvin had to wave bye bye......this time.............boom gone so not as even a single step but acceleration.

EVERY PERSON ON A FOOTBALL TEAM HAS A JOB..........only one is the safety valve on a kickoff............that is reed and he is useless as such

Lou Groza in his day a way better kicker than Reed.........nearly always made plays of kickoffs..............

I been kicked in the gonads for making an issue from this.........but I assure.............great teams and coaches WILL NOT tolerate.........waving as people go in for TD's.............

I hope somehow Mike Tomlin gets my message.................

I am saddened the message has been locked .........this time without reason:banging::tt04::tt03::tt02::rofl:

X-Terminator
11-16-2009, 04:48 PM
Now gee, who didn't see this thread turning into another "Bash Jeff Reed and put 100% of the blame on him for the KO return TD" thread?

Yawn.

This one might need to be "cleansed" as well.

Jmat
11-16-2009, 04:59 PM
It isn't that tough to find a new kicker.

I appreciate how well Skippy has done in kicking FG's but something tells me there is someone else out there that could not only kick FG's consistently but kick the ball into the endzone more than once a season and is capable of making a tackle when needed.

I was willing to give Skippy a pass on his whiff tackle a couple weeks ago but considering how often he gets the chance to make the tackle he has to make good on it.
Either that or kick the ball deeper into the endzone.

The Steelers special teams are an embarrassment. High school teams have better ST's.

Fire Ligashesky.

Rick5895
11-16-2009, 05:08 PM
The kick Reed made on the KR TD i thought was good. He kicked into a corner near the 5 yard line. As much as I can't stand the lack of effort, he did his job somewhat on that play. The rest of the guys sh*t the bed, not keeping there lanes and really poor tackling. I am not a Reed fan by any means, but on one item i must agree with Hometown Gal, we are beating a dead horse with this, there was plenty of blame to go around Sunday, for example Harrison and that stupid penalty, that could very well have been the play that cost us a reasonable chance at the game. He doesn't take that penalty there is no field goal and we arew only down by 3. Then our offensive play calling is perhaps tailored to getting into field goal range rather than the constant bombing. Just my opinion. BTW I started a Reed thread after the Vikings return, hopefully this is the last year for Reed. But we have him on our team, so let's move on.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-17-2009, 06:38 AM
Now gee, who didn't see this thread turning into another "Bash Jeff Reed and put 100% of the blame on him for the KO return TD" thread?

Yawn.

This one might need to be "cleansed" as well.

Didnt mean to come off as a "basher"...thats why I made a point of saying that I appreciate Reeds contribution towards out latest two Lombardies.

Just wanted to make the point that if Skippy wasnt happy with the contract that he turned down...he has GOT to show us MORE on and off the field to warrant a larger contract.

stillers4me
11-17-2009, 06:44 AM
It isn't that tough to find a new kicker.

Tell that to the Ravens.

joelsteed
11-17-2009, 04:08 PM
Have you ever played football? How could you watch the game and say, "Reed did his job"? Judging by the way Reed just casually went by the runner, you would of thought Reed's job was to NOT TOUCH him, as Reed went out of his way to avoid the runner.

Rick5895
11-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Have you ever played football? How could you watch the game and say, "Reed did his job"? Judging by the way Reed just casually went by the runner, you would of thought Reed's job was to NOT TOUCH him, as Reed went out of his way to avoid the runner.


I must assume you are refering to my post. To correct you I said he SOMEWHAT did his job, he put the ball in a good spot for our coverage team to make a play, they didn't. If you watched Tomlins press conferance today you will see his respnse to the "whiff", that being Reed should never have been put in the position to have to amke a tackle. In addition, I waas the guy who started the Jeff Reed post after the Vikings game, when I said we should get rid of his candy ass, I am certainly no fan of his.
The kick on the Scott return was placed in a pretty good spot for us to make a play behind the 20. We didn't, that speaks more to the scheme on coverage and the players rather than Reed not being able to tackle. Perhaps the ST coach is at fault for not adjusting his schemes or putting players out there who want to hit.

HometownGal
11-17-2009, 05:37 PM
Now gee, who didn't see this thread turning into another "Bash Jeff Reed and put 100% of the blame on him for the KO return TD" thread?

Yawn.

This one might need to be "cleansed" as well.

I'm being redundant here by bitching about redundancy but dems the breaks.

FOR THE LAST TIME - PLEASE VISIT THE "LAWS OF THE LAND" THREAD IN THE ANNOUNCEMENTS FORUM REGARDING POSTING REDUNDANT TOPICS.

If this thread continues along these lines, it will be locked as the others were. If you have a problem with that, you are free to PM the Administrator. He made the rules - we Mods just enforce them.

jjpro11
11-17-2009, 07:33 PM
i am tired of these stupid threads complaining about Reed. he can't tackle because he is a slow, unathletic kicker who gets paid to kick field goals.. which he has done very well throughout his career despite some bumps along the road this year. no team evaluates their kicker based on their tackling ability. if he can make a tackle or two, that's a bonus. but most kickers in this league look like fools when they try to tackle a returner. i didn't hear this complaining last year when our coverage unit could actually bring down the returner before he got to Reed. if our coverage unit wasn't so inept, nobody would even hear the words "tackle" and "Reed" in the same sentance.