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View Full Version : West coast offense vs Blitzburgh Defense


BlitzburghRockCity
01-24-2006, 12:02 AM
In your opinion, how much of a problem will the west coast offense present to our Blitzburgh. The west coast does ALOT of short dump passes and intermidiate routes across the flat which is where our LB's and Safeties blitz from alot. It presents alot of problems for lesser and even better than average defenses so you have to account for the middle of the field in a big way.

I dont believe seattle has seen THAT much of the 3-4 to be able to say they're experienced with it and with our athletic defense I still see Lebeau not letting up on the pressure. Its gotten us this far and no matter what you always stop the run first !

augustashark
01-24-2006, 12:05 AM
D-line has to get their hands up!!!!!!! When facing a west coast O and they are doing alot of 3 step drops the d-line must get their hands up and bat down some of those balls.....The more they can clog up some of the passing lanes the more we can dictate the blitz and or drop off coverage.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-24-2006, 12:17 AM
thats a good call. our DL has been getting good penetration and pressure all year and its imperative now more than ever.. with those quick drops and passes across the middle getting your hands up is key. Gap sound defense is critical against a RB like alexander too.

seahawksfan
01-24-2006, 01:16 AM
The offensive line is critical to going against the 3-4. We have, in Holmgren and Haskell two great strategic minds. The schemes will be interesting to see unfold. The talent will carry it forward. Three all pro O-men ought to help!

BlitzburghRockCity
01-24-2006, 01:28 AM
It starts and ends w/ the big fat guys on both sides of the ball. Both D-lines are playing great this year and both teams have pro bowlers on the O line.. so its the irresistable force against the immovable object. Somethings gotta give, and the 3-4 is a great defense to make the move with.

area51lofa
01-24-2006, 02:33 AM
the WCO was built by Walsh to stop the 3-4 def that most teams were useing then

Homy runs the WCO in its truest form ... should be a fun matchup to watch :)

DIESELMAN
01-24-2006, 02:57 AM
LeBeau definitely has his hands full with Hasselback and Alexander but he and the Steelers will definitely be up to the task.....He is a defensive genius and mastermind I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls something nobodys ever seen before...No playin it safe here its all or nothin....:helmet:

BritishSteel
01-24-2006, 04:35 AM
Don't Denver play with a variant of the WCO? We stuffed that up pretty good.

How many 3-4 defences have Seattle faced this season. I know they had all sorts of problems with the Dallas defence and they play 3-4. Any others?

Prosdo
01-24-2006, 05:09 AM
NFL Network I think it was said that was the only 3-4 they faced.

area51lofa
01-24-2006, 06:42 AM
both the 49ers and the cards use the 3-4, and think the titans do too...so that means the HAWK's have faced the 3-4, 6 times this year and won all 6 games...heres going for #7


btw; the version denver runs is nothing like the true form Homy uses that he learned from the master Walsh ... at the same time none of those teams run the 3-4 like the steelers do, theres a reason the steelers are in the superbowl

heres to a great game with both teams leaving it all on the field :bouncy:


p.s. the HAWK's were missing BOTH there starting wideouts for the DALLAS game... may be the reason they struggled ( just a guess )

BritishSteel
01-24-2006, 07:02 AM
both the 49ers and the cards use the 3-4, and think the titans do too...so that means the HAWK's have faced the 3-4, 6 times this year and won all 6 games...heres going for #7


btw; the version denver runs is nothing like the true form Homy uses that he learned from the master Walsh ... at the same time none of those teams run the 3-4 like the steelers do, theres a reason the steelers are in the superbowl

heres to a great game with both teams leaving it all on the field :bouncy:


p.s. the HAWK's were missing BOTH there starting wideouts for the DALLAS game... may be the reason they struggled ( just a guess )

Fair enough - I didn't see the Hawks-Cowboys game (the Cowboys are a decent enough team anyway) so I'll take your word for it.

No-one plays 3-4 like the Steelers (well, perhaps the Pats) so I guess we'll find out in a week and some whether it's an issue

Rotorhead
01-24-2006, 08:21 AM
Since the WC offense it based on timing and thowing to a spot, ask Peyton how effective that was. As long as we can generate the rush like we have throughout the entire playoffs, we will be fine, there is no passing game when the QB is under pressure immediately after the snap, which is pretty much what we have been able to do. I am pretty confident that Alexander will not be running up the middle.

Seahawk76
01-24-2006, 10:12 AM
Jackson and Engram were out for the Cowboys game which allowed them to put eight in the box to stop Alexander. Hasselbeck moved the Seahawks down the field easily on the first drive but then threw one of his few bad picks of the season in the red zone. After that they struggled moving the ball most of the game but then blew right down the field in the final two minutes of the game to tie it up.

The Seahawks moved the ball at will against the Texans' 3-4. I'm not trying to compare the Texans' D with the Steelers' D obviously, I'm just saying there's nothing magical about the 3-4 against the WCO...it all depends on the personnel and the execution. The 3-4 has its strengths but also has weaknesses that can be exploited. The Hawks rolled up 443 yards in New England last year against a very good Patriot 3-4 defense.

Avoid Lloyd
01-24-2006, 01:13 PM
both the 49ers and the cards use the 3-4, and think the titans do too...so that means the HAWK's have faced the 3-4, 6 times this year and won all 6 games...heres going for #7



Well since you beat the 49ers, Cardinals, and Titans you should have no problem with the Steelers.:blurp:

clevestinks
01-24-2006, 02:59 PM
LeBeau with two weeks to prepare, our athletic defenders! Advantage us!

seahawksfan
01-24-2006, 03:21 PM
LeBeau with two weeks to prepare, our athletic defenders! Advantage us!

Two weeks for Holmgren and Haskell, and our defensive coordinators Rhodes and Marshall, to prepare a game plan...gotta love it.

steelcityjameser
01-24-2006, 03:31 PM
nice post. good question. first i guess it starts with Hasselbeck picking up the blitz and finding that safety valve receiver or open man up the middle. second it is the o-lineman and how effective they are picking it up; they may have seen 3-4 this year, but they HAVE NOT seen pittsburgh's 3-4, probably the most complex in terms of blitz packages in the NFL. after that it is pure execution on both sides. one thing though, pittsburgh will adjust if they need to; and if the seahawks can't stop the steelers offense it may be a moot point anyway.

Tooquickrich
01-24-2006, 03:45 PM
Well since you beat the 49ers, Cardinals, and Titans you should have no problem with the Steelers.

yeah, they won a combined total of what.......10 games.....lol.

Hawkswin
01-24-2006, 03:46 PM
nice post. good question. first i guess it starts with Hasselbeck picking up the blitz and finding that safety valve receiver or open man up the middle. second it is the o-lineman and how effective they are picking it up; they may have seen 3-4 this year, but they HAVE NOT seen pittsburgh's 3-4, probably the most complex in terms of blitz packages in the NFL. after that it is pure execution on both sides. one thing though, pittsburgh will adjust if they need to; and if the seahawks can't stop the steelers offense it may be a moot point anyway.

That's it right there. Hasselback needs to read the blitz. If the Steelers can disguise their schemes and trick Hasselback into needless audibles the Seahawks are in trouble. If the Hawk's Oline gives him some time, and Mack Strong and Jeremy Stevens can consistently pick up their blocks, the WCO will pick apart the Steelers D. With 3 and 4 WR formations spreading out the coverage, you guys had better hit Hass quick or someone's going to be open every time.

No one runs a WCO as pure as the one in Seattle, and no one has a 3-4 with the speed and complexity of the Steelers. I can't wait.

Suitanim
01-24-2006, 04:28 PM
Dink and dunk WCO basically just means you substitute short passes as runs, and the QB takes little 3 step drops as opposed to 5-7 to defuse the blitz. But it can be defensed by forcing the offense into perfection, as the whole thing hinges on the offense being able to execute long drives with lot's of successful plays a few yards at a time, and being a bend don't break defense (as the Steelers are) is the very best remedy.

I'd say at best the Seahawks can hang 20 points on the Steelers, and that's at best, meaning nice balance, no TO's, decent field position, etc, etc...

The game will be determined by how well Seattle can overcome the newfound proficiency of the Steelers offense. Let 'em score 30 or so like they have been almost every week during the winning streak, and the game is over 30-20 Steelers.

That will, incidentally, be my prediction for the game, barring any unforseen injuries...

hardwork
01-24-2006, 04:40 PM
The Dallas game is the key. Seattle has a very good OL but if they can't figure out what happen against the Cowboys they won't be able to beat the Steelers 3-4.

Seattle had only 72 yards rushing on 22 carries against Dallas. They were only 3 for 13 on third downs.

Further, Seattle lost 3 games this year. In each one of them Alexander was under 100 yards.

BigSteelThrill
01-24-2006, 04:57 PM
The Cards and Titans do not play a 3-4.

The Texans, Cowboys and 49ers do. Thats 4 games.
The Texans have zero talent on defense (apologies to Dunta).
And the 49ers and Cowboys just switched and have players who dont know the 3-4 beyond one season.

There really was nothing to compare to Pitts defense. (or SDs or NEs)

2900DegreeHawk
01-24-2006, 05:12 PM
Do you think that Pitt has played a comparable offense?

BigSteelThrill
01-24-2006, 05:18 PM
Do you think that Pitt has played a comparable offense?
Good question. Is there a thread on it? Maybe we should start one.

A: Maybe, maybe not. But I know that the Colts and Bengals are explosive and very balanced.
They may use more long and intermediate routes. But both have great QB, RBs, OLines. Only Indy has a real TE though. (expect Cincy to draft one) Both play on artificial turf. All are top 4 scoring teams.

As far as a WCO offense... not sure. But it is very plentiful around the NFL.

Would have to take a look at it.

hardwork
01-24-2006, 05:25 PM
I would say the battle between Pitts defense and Seattle's offense is the Steelers to lose.

tony hipchest
01-24-2006, 05:32 PM
Do you think that Pitt has played a comparable offense? pitt played the eagles with t.o. and donovan last year and destroyed them allowing only 3 points. the steelers defense now is the same but better, wiser, more experienced , and more opened up.

2900DegreeHawk
01-24-2006, 05:37 PM
I think it is going to be a pretty awsome game. I looked up common opponents and from my analysis it means absolutely nothing.

Both teams lost to Jacksonville
Both team beat the Texans although Seattle Murdered them while Pitt just mugged them.
Both teams beat the Titans, although Pit Killed them.
Seattle beat Indy, but Indy was playing thier JV squad. Pitt lost but beat them when it counted.
Pitt Beat Green Bay, Seattle Lost with thier JV Squad.

Well that was a giant waste of time.

2900DegreeHawk
01-24-2006, 05:39 PM
pitt played the eagles with t.o. and donovan last year and destroyed them allowing only 3 points. the steelers defense now is the same but better, wiser, more experienced , and more opened up.


This is true but the 04 Eagles and 05 Seahawks run completely different offenses. They are not even in the same ballpark, maybe not even in the same sport.

tony hipchest
01-24-2006, 05:40 PM
I think it is going to be a pretty awsome game. I looked up common opponents and from my analysis it means absolutely nothing.

Both teams lost to Jacksonville
Both team beat the Texans although Seattle Murdered them while Pitt just mugged them.
Both teams beat the Titans, although Pit Killed them.
Seattle beat Indy, but Indy was playing thier JV squad. Pitt lost but beat them when it counted.
Pitt Beat Green Bay, Seattle Lost with thier JV Squad.

Well that was a giant waste of time.

lol. i usually dont bother with them stats either.

Suitanim
01-24-2006, 05:49 PM
This is true but the 04 Eagles and 05 Seahawks run completely different offenses. They are not even in the same ballpark, maybe not even in the same sport.

Huh? Andy Reid is just as big a WCO guy as Holmgren is. They all came up through the same ranks and run the same system. The joke about the Eagles never running the ball is a misnomer, since, when healthy, Westbrook is the most proficient receiving RB in the league, and can run the ball effectively as well.

Again, the tenets of the WCO are that the short pass and run are interchangable. The big differences I see between Eagles '04 and Seahawks '05 is that the Eagles had the premier deep threat at WR and the Seahawks now have the premier RB.

hardwork
01-24-2006, 06:24 PM
"The big differences I see between Eagles '04 and Seahawks '05 is that the Eagles had the premier deep threat at WR and the Seahawks now have the premier RB."

The big difference is who's taking the snaps. While we don't know how Hasselbeck is going to handle his first SB, we do know he's cut from a more competitive tree then McNabb. You put Hasselbeck in for McNabb during the 4th quarter of last years SB and the Eagles probably win.

seahawksfan
01-24-2006, 06:28 PM
Huh? Andy Reid is just as big a WCO guy as Holmgren is. They all came up through the same ranks and run the same system. The joke about the Eagles never running the ball is a misnomer, since, when healthy, Westbrook is the most proficient receiving RB in the league, and can run the ball effectively as well.

Again, the tenets of the WCO are that the short pass and run are interchangable. The big differences I see between Eagles '04 and Seahawks '05 is that the Eagles had the premier deep threat at WR and the Seahawks now have the premier RB.

The other primary difference is team unity. The Seahawks have had solid, consistent unity all season. Shaun is an incredibly modest guy. Last year he let his mouth flap about being stabbed in the back when he missed the rushing title by 1 yard. This year he and everyone has been a model citizen s in te club house. Exceptions: Hamlin on IR stemming from a bar fight after the Giants game and Locklear having a domestic dispute with his girlfriend that was carried out on the streets after the Redskins game.

tony hipchest
01-24-2006, 06:41 PM
The other primary difference is team unity. The Seahawks have had solid, consistent unity all season. Shaun is an incredibly modest guy. Last year he let his mouth flap about being stabbed in the back when he missed the rushing title by 1 yard. This year he and everyone has been a model citizen s in te club house. Exceptions: Hamlin on IR stemming from a bar fight after the Giants game and Locklear having a domestic dispute with his girlfriend that was carried out on the streets after the Redskins game.seattle has good team unity. the steelers is like cement. sure j. porter talks a little smack but you wont see them out at the strip clubs of detroit yukking it up before the game a bullet in the ass kind of cured joey of that. steelerfans understand model citizens and seattle does have them. while it does give them an edge over the eagles it doent mean squat against the upscale citizens of the pittsburgh steelers.:cool:

BlitzburghRockCity
01-24-2006, 07:09 PM
both the 49ers and the cards use the 3-4, and think the titans do too...so that means the HAWK's have faced the 3-4, 6 times this year and won all 6 games...heres going for #7


btw; the version denver runs is nothing like the true form Homy uses that he learned from the master Walsh ... at the same time none of those teams run the 3-4 like the steelers do, theres a reason the steelers are in the superbowl

heres to a great game with both teams leaving it all on the field


p.s. the HAWK's were missing BOTH there starting wideouts for the DALLAS game... may be the reason they struggled (

I really hope you're not comparing the Steelers to those teams.. none of them can get out of their own way and couldnt be a high school team with any regularity. We run the 3-4 better than anyone else, we started it, we do it the best. There is no comparison :busted:

hardwork
01-24-2006, 07:54 PM
We run the 3-4 better than anyone else, we started it, we do it the best. There is no comparison :busted:

You started it? Bud Wilkenson started it at Oklahoma about 50 years ago.

BigSteelThrill
01-24-2006, 08:07 PM
I think he means, there was a time (not to long ago) when we were the only 3-4 defense in the NFL. Everyone else ran a 4-3. We havent stopped using it since then, tho some other teams have since changed to a 3-4.

If we started runing the wing-T and did so for a decade before anyone else started doing it, I think they could take credit for starting it, at least in NFL circles, despite its ancient origins.

hardwork
01-24-2006, 08:10 PM
Point taken.

BlueTalon
01-25-2006, 12:04 AM
seattle has good team unity. the steelers is like cement. sure j. porter talks a little smack but you wont see them out at the strip clubs of detroit yukking it up before the game a bullet in the ass kind of cured joey of that. steelerfans understand model citizens and seattle does have them. while it does give them an edge over the eagles it doent mean squat against the upscale citizens of the pittsburgh steelers.:cool:I don't think he meant team unity as an advantage over you, I think he meant it as an advantage over other teams you've faced.

seahawksfan
01-25-2006, 12:51 AM
I don't think he meant team unity as an advantage over you, I think he meant it as an advantage over other teams you've faced.

Thanks BlueTalon. The natives are on edge tonight. Lots of feather puffing. Team unity was meant to offer contrast between last years Hawk team and this year's team. Nothing more. How this was misconstrued is beyond me. As you observe, it is an advantage for the Hawks as compared to other teams, just as it was for the Steelers as they faced their competitors.

BlueTalon
01-25-2006, 01:02 AM
Thanks BlueTalon. The natives are on edge tonight. Lots of feather puffing. Team unity was meant to offer contrast between last years Hawk team and this year's team. Nothing more. How this was misconstrued is beyond me. As you observe, it is an advantage for the Hawks as compared to other teams, just as it was for the Steelers as they faced their competitors.
Ever since Whitset was canned and Ruskell was hired, that has been a strong focus. They got rid of the me-first guys, brought in team guys, and the results have been incredible!

I'm wondering how the team unity for the Steelers this year compares to recent years. Steeler guys?

area51lofa
01-25-2006, 05:38 AM
The Dallas game is the key. Seattle has a very good OL but if they can't figure out what happen against the Cowboys they won't be able to beat the Steelers 3-4.

Seattle had only 72 yards rushing on 22 carries against Dallas. They were only 3 for 13 on third downs.

Further, Seattle lost 3 games this year. In each one of them Alexander was under 100 yards.


the 'HAWKS were without BOTH starting wideouts for this game, and Hass wasnt as comfortable with the backups as he is now. DALLAS was able to put 8 to 9 def in the box to stop SA. :dang:

if the STEELERS are foolish 'nuff to try the same thing this game, Hass will eat them alive :sofunny:

the game with the 'BOYS may not be the wisest thing to put your faith in...IMHO, how the 'HAWKS handle the STEELERS 3-4 is the biggest key to the game. should be a great, knock-down, drag out fight with the team that makes the best in-game adjustments winning. :boxing:

Avoid Lloyd
01-25-2006, 09:47 AM
I think it is going to be a pretty awsome game. I looked up common opponents and from my analysis it means absolutely nothing.

Both teams lost to Jacksonville
Both team beat the Texans although Seattle Murdered them while Pitt just mugged them.
Both teams beat the Titans, although Pit Killed them.
Seattle beat Indy, but Indy was playing thier JV squad. Pitt lost but beat them when it counted.
Pitt Beat Green Bay, Seattle Lost with thier JV Squad.

Well that was a giant waste of time.


You can't really look at those games. Wow, both teams beat the Texans and Titans - they suck so that doesn't prove anything. Beating Indy's second stringers doesn't count, and neither does losing with your own second stringers in.

We both lost to Jacksonville, but we had Tommy Maddox in...

tony hipchest
01-25-2006, 11:09 AM
Ever since Whitset was canned and Ruskell was hired, that has been a strong focus. They got rid of the me-first guys, brought in team guys, and the results have been incredible!

I'm wondering how the team unity for the Steelers this year compares to recent years. Steeler guys?
the steelers have always been a tightly nit group with no clicks. offensive guys hanging out with defensive guys. pulling rookies into the loop etc. but i have read alot more stories about team unity going back to the miami game last year when they were stuck in a blackout in their hotel. lebeau has gelled the defense. they have rallied behind a rookie/2nd year qb. hines was signed for the longterm and the focus of winning one for bettis and the coach (whom they all love). bill cowher summed it up best in his press conference after the win in indy:

Is this team more a product of coaching than other years?


"I think it?s all a combination of working together. The players are the one?s who play the game, let?s face. They have to have trust in the things that you?re asking them to do. There?s got to be communication that takes place with what you?re telling them in a short period of time. It all goes hand-in-hand. You look at good organizations and teams that are successful, there?s a trust and relationship that exists between players and coaches that?s one-in-one. We have that here. It?s very, very healthy around here. You can see how we work and how we practice. It?s not just offense guys and offensive coaches or defensive coaches with defensive players. It?s a whole football team. This is a true football team that truly cares about one another. The other day when the offense was up I was trying to talk to the defense. Half the defensive players are watching the offense and vice-versa. Not many people are sitting on the bench and I think that speaks volumes about your team"

BlueTalon
01-25-2006, 11:22 AM
Thanks! I love it when teams have chemistry and a tight-knittedness like that. Personally, since I really didn't care who won in the AFC, I'm glad a team like that took it all. I get really irritated by teams whose players scream at each other on the sidelines, scream at the coaches, badmouth each other to the press, etc. So I'm happy that two quality teams, whose players have each others' backs, are in the big one.

(I admit, I'd still be happy with the Seahawks in the Super Bowl even if they didn't have good chemistry, but I'm absolutely stoked that they're in and they've got chemistry!)

smashmouth
01-25-2006, 11:23 AM
The Defensive schemes will be different this week than all other weeks. This is why they are successful. Its all about who is coming and when! Whos drops in coverage and when. Is it delayed or right from the snap. Don't try and guess what will happen it will not be the same.

A Cold Rock and a Sausage Sammich! Now that what I'm talking about!