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View Full Version : Time to put the Blame where it belongs! TOMLIN


mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 04:20 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Tomlin is to BLAME!

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

jaygorius
11-22-2009, 04:26 PM
I think it is finally time to put some blame on the coaches. All of the talk this past week after the Bengals loss was how we shouldn't blame the coaches or the playcalling, and that it was player execution. The team playing flat two weeks in a row means they haven't been fully prepared, which is on everyone. Coaches and players all deserve the blame- it is definitely time to start putting some blame on coaches too.

I think the team is still is fine position and the season isn't lost or anything, but Tomlin is going to need to step up this week and make sure his team is ready to go next Sunday. I am not quite sure that Tomlin has been is this position yet so it will be interesting to see. They say his strength is in motivating his team in creative ways and he is going to need it here.

SMR
11-22-2009, 04:26 PM
This AND we punt the ball on 4th and 5 on the 38 YARD LINE???????
:banging:

solardave
11-22-2009, 04:31 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Tomlin is to BLAME!

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

I'm with you here. This is ridiculous. Last week we heard that the Bengals are "that good" No they're not. And KC sucks. Last week the offense didn't show up. This week it's the defense. We might as well lose the rest now.What the hell is Tomlin thinking? We quit running when it's working and the one time we should throw the damn ball we don't. Piss poor play calling. Do I need to go on. No because I'll probably be banned for not being a "real fan". BULLSHIT! I call em as I see um.
If Tomlin doesn't straighten this shit out quickly he needs to have a short tenure with the Steelers.Start with Arians and Liga shit for brains.Don't let the door hit you ass on the way out!!!!!:mad::banging::banging::banging::banging:

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 04:31 PM
http://therealbarackobama.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sky-is-falling.jpg

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 04:32 PM
I think it is finally time to put some blame on the coaches. All of the talk this past week after the Bengals loss was how we shouldn't blame the coaches or the playcalling, and that it was player execution. The team playing flat two weeks in a row means they haven't been fully prepared, which is on everyone. Coaches and players all deserve the blame- it is definitely time to start putting some blame on coaches too.

I think the team is still is fine position and the season isn't lost or anything, but Tomlin is going to need to step up this week and make sure his team is ready to go next Sunday. I am not quite sure that Tomlin has been is this position yet so it will be interesting to see. They say his strength is in motivating his team in creative ways and he is going to need it here.

He'd better be damn good at motivating. This season is in serious jeopardy. Another loss and it will be tough to make the playoffs. Two loses and and I think we're done.

We have no safety margin left.

What is really frightening is the trend. We are regressing not progressing.

If this team can't win with out Troy then our number one draft pick better be a safety.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:32 PM
Yeah.....right wow !!!

look dude calm down it's simple

it doesnt have anything to do with Tomlin.

The defense is just plain ordinary without number 43.Simply not the same D without him.

Tomlin wasnt on the field when they allowed that big play in OT.

Yeah the special teams are ugly but as far as I remember we were ahead by 10 after that play right ? So it doesnt mean anything.

I dont want to use injuries but come on...you really think we will be the same D withou Aaron Smith and Troy on D ??? Anyone who thinks so is totally nuts.

It will take a collective effort and a lot of luck if we want to hope repeating this year.

Jaquila
11-22-2009, 04:33 PM
really? no wait i mean...REALLY!?:noidea:
well guess it shold've come at some point

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 04:33 PM
sorry folks. its not kosher to blame the coaches around here.

not even the with the abysimal effort from our special teams, week after week.

if the coaches call a 5 wide fly route on every single play it is up to the players to execute it.

if mendenhall is hot, and willie comes off the bench cold, it is up to him to execute.

its that simple.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:35 PM
sorry folks. its not kosher to blame the coaches around here.

not even the with the abysimal effort from our special teams, week after week.

if the coaches call a 5 wide fly route on every single play it is up to the players to execute it.

if mendenhall is hot, and willie comes off the bench cold, it is up to him to execute.

its that simple.

EXACTLY !

they are professionals they get all the credit when they win,they deserve blame when they loss

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm with you here. This is ridiculous. Last week we heard that the Bengals are "that good" No they're not. And KC sucks. Last week the offense didn't show up. This week it's the defense. We might as well lose the rest now.What the hell is Tomlin thinking? We quit running when it's working and the one time we should throw the damn ball we don't. Piss poor play calling. Do I need to go on. No because I'll probably be banned for not being a "real fan". BULLSHIT! I call em as I see um.
If Tomlin doesn't straighten this shit out quickly he needs to have a short tenure with the Steelers.Start with Arians and Liga shit for brains.Don't let the door hit you ass on the way out!!!!!:mad::banging::banging::banging::banging:

And I call 'em as I see 'em and you are acting like a spoiled little brat who expects this team to win the Super Bowl every damned season.

No - they didn't play well today and I'm very disappointed. Is it the end of the season or the world? HELL NO. Get behind your team and support them even when times are tough instead of crucifying them. And if they don't get to the playoffs this season? So what? Life goes on and if you've been a Steelers fan for any length of time, you know the down times don't last long. Have a little faith.

Stlrs4Life
11-22-2009, 04:37 PM
http://therealbarackobama.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sky-is-falling.jpg



It isn't falling yet? R u serious? We can start talking about the draft.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:37 PM
could be worst...we could be the Chicago Bears having a crappy season and no first day draft picks next year

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 04:38 PM
sorry folks. its not kosher to blame the coaches around here.

not even the with the abysimal effort from our special teams, week after week.

if the coaches call a 5 wide fly route on every single play it is up to the players to execute it.

if mendenhall is hot, and willie comes off the bench cold, it is up to him to execute.

its that simple.

You're being brutally unfair, Tony. I have absolutely no problem with constructive critcism but from what I've been reading, the criticism is destructive and reeks of FWF'ism. :poop:

The coaches didn't give up 24 - YES 24 - points to the hapless Chiefs. The PLAYERS did.

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 04:40 PM
You're being brutally unfair, Tony. I have absolutely no problem with constructive critcism but from what I've been reading, the criticism is destructive and reeks of FWF'ism. :poop:

The coaches didn't give up 24 - YES 24 - points to the hapless Chiefs. The PLAYERS did.

No you are seeing the world through black and gold glasses and absolving the coaches are any responsibility and that is Bull Crap.

SteelerEmpire
11-22-2009, 04:40 PM
Yea.... Coach is gonna have to take this one on the chin.... Heads are gonna roll when they get back to Pitt.....

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 04:42 PM
You're being brutally unfair, Tony. I have absolutely no problem with constructive critcism but from what I've been reading, the criticism is destructive and reeks of FWF'ism. :poop:

The coaches didn't give up 24 - YES 24 - points to the hapless Chiefs. The PLAYERS did.

I understand that, but I'm sorry, but the coaches have to take some blame this week. I still cannot understand for the life of me why they would call a stretch play on 3rd and 2 with MOORE, the slowest of the 3 RBs, when you have Mendenhall and Parker available. It made absolutely no sense. And as for the special teams, if this performance doesn't get Ligashesky fired, then I don't know what else he has to do.

This is a completely inexcusable loss, period, and everyone - from the coaches on down - deserve some blame.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:42 PM
No you are seeing the world through black and gold glasses and absolving the coaches are any responsibility and that is Bull Crap.

OK fine now that you've blame tomlin for that what do you want to do next ? Fire him maybe?

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 04:43 PM
No you are seeing the world through black and gold glasses and absolving the coaches are any responsibility and that is Bull Crap.

Though I am an eternal optimist, I do NOT see the "world" through black 'n gold colored glasses and I resent you saying that. I am NOT absolving the coaches here but I'll be damned if I'll pin this loss directly on any of them. As I've said until I'm blue in the face- the coaches didn't give up 24 freakin' points to the stink assed Chiefs - the ST's and our D did. BA, Ben and the O did their jobs today, imho. 24 points scored by the O is plenty to win a football game. :banging:

Stlrs4Life
11-22-2009, 04:44 PM
It's not Tomlin, it's the team, this team plays with no passion. What happened to the team that played so well in the 3rd Qtr vs Denver? Obviously Denver sucks worse than we do.

Jmat
11-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Tomlin is to BLAME!

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

It definitely is Mike's fault. As head coach he is ultimately responsible for what the team he puts on the field does.
He has the last word on all on the field decisions.

By the way
Ike Taylor is the Limas Sweed of the defense. No hands.

GridironWarrior
11-22-2009, 04:46 PM
I understand that, but I'm sorry, but the coaches have to take some blame this week. I still cannot understand for the life of me why they would call a stretch play on 3rd and 2 with MOORE, the slowest of the 3 RBs, when you have Mendenhall and Parker available. It made absolutely no sense. And as for the special teams, if this performance doesn't get Ligashesky fired, then I don't know what else he has to do.

This is a completely inexcusable loss, period, and everyone - from the coaches on down - deserve some blame.

You know I was wondering why they ran a toss of 3rd and 2. And why of all backs use Moore? Odd game today very odd.

smokin3000gt
11-22-2009, 04:48 PM
OK.. everyone is right. Let's blame the coaches.

**Coaches BLAMED**

There.. now what?

MACH1
11-22-2009, 04:49 PM
sorry folks. its not kosher to blame the coaches around here.

not even the with the abysimal effort from our special teams, week after week.

if the coaches call a 5 wide fly route on every single play it is up to the players to execute it.

if mendenhall is hot, and willie comes off the bench cold, it is up to him to execute.

its that simple.

Ya, gotta go with ya here.

ST are doing what their being coached.
Sorry, but it starts at the top and if the players aren't prepared or just bad scheming, execution isn't going to do chit.

HughC
11-22-2009, 04:49 PM
This AND we punt the ball on 4th and 5 on the 38 YARD LINE???????
:banging:
I'm not going to say everything is Tomlin's fault, or any one person's fault, but that got me out of my seat and yelling at the tv. In that area of the field a team should probably be going for it on 4th down nearly every time. It's no-man's-land; too far out to try a field goal, but too close to make a punt worthwhile. Sure enough the punt goes into the end zone and there is a gain of just what, 18 yards?

At the very least, how about lining up as if you are going for it and try and draw the Chiefs offsides? A five-yard delay of game penalty gives your punter and coverage team that much more chance of downing the punt inside the ten.

I wonder if Tomlin, being a young coach, simply subscribes to the book of conventional wisdom, or if he even considered going for it? I also wonder if the public backlash against Belichick last week weighed in on his decision, even if it was only just a little bit.

jbone19
11-22-2009, 04:50 PM
Tomlin needs to start by making a move right this minute. Fire the special teams coach on the spot. He and the entire kickoff team should have to walk home. How many more 100 yard plus touchdowns are the Steelers going to give up before something is done? Enough is enough. :banging:

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:53 PM
funny how people quickly forget things.In a couple of weeks when Troy is back people will start thinking that finally everything is green again in black n gold land and how great Tomlin is and nobody will notice the 35+ pass att in a game by Ben.

Troy P is the real MVP of this team been saying this for a while.Troy should have won the Defensive Player of the Year last year.

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 04:53 PM
OK fine now that you've blame tomlin for that what do you want to do next ? Fire him maybe?

That will depend on what Tomlin does next.

We went 14-2 against the toughest schedule in the NFL last year. We had lots of injuries last year as well.

Did every player in less than 9 months become old over night?

In nine months did they forget how to execute?

This team is playing badly and we are getting worse not better.

Tomlin is head coach and it's his responsibility to fix it.

Let's see what Tomlin does next and how he acts to fix it.

SteelMusic
11-22-2009, 04:53 PM
And I call 'em as I see 'em and you are acting like a spoiled little brat who expects this team to win the Super Bowl every damned season.

No - they didn't play well today and I'm very disappointed. Is it the end of the season or the world? HELL NO. Get behind your team and support them even when times are tough instead of crucifying them. And if they don't get to the playoffs this season? So what? Life goes on and if you've been a Steelers fan for any length of time, you know the down times don't last long. Have a little faith.


Isn't the point of a forum to discuss football? Or is it just to say 'Here we go Steelers Here We Go'???

Just sayin. I understand you want us to keep the faith and all, but I come here to talk Steelers football not just be a cheerleader.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:55 PM
That will depend on what Tomlin does next.

We went 14-2 against the toughest schedule in the NFL last year. We had lots of injuries last year as well.

Did every player in less than 9 months become old over night?

In nine months did they forget how to execute?

This team is playing badly and we are getting worse not better.

Tomlin is head coach and it's his responsibility to fix it.

Let's see what Tomlin does next and how he acts to fix it.

lol I think you just dont get it dude.

Look at the Steelers record without and with Troy .....then tell me it has nothing to do with Troy being injured ;)

and then what you might want to fire Tomlin if we dont make playoffs ? That would be brilliant after a SB win...we could be the new Washington Redskins and sign free agents for 100 millions over 7 yrs and then lacking space on the cap to re-sign our players oh no I forgot we wouldnt have to cause we would trade out our draft picks as well

SteelerEmpire
11-22-2009, 04:56 PM
I think Tomlin has to go through the Rooney's before he can fire a coach..... probably why a lot of people are still here today

madtowndrunkard
11-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Seriously? How can anyone in their right mind defend the coaching?

If we were talking about our first loss, then yea I'd say Ok the players just made some mistakes and we lost. If we just lost to a better team then what can you say? If some fluke plays happened out there today, I'd say "yea...the players screwed up" Problem is we lost because of a total failure by our ST's unit....besides the fact that our offense has become one dimensional. This was as bad a coaching job I've ever seen from a Steeler team in a long long time.

Watching our offense is like watching the Browns offense when Arians was their OC. You can't deny that...it's true. I don't care how bad you are, if you know what the opponent is going to do, it will make it much easier to defend. 3rd and-4 and we are shooting 30+ yards down field. I don't get it. I've watched a lot of football in my life and it's pretty easy to see. Our offensive game plan is flawed. We have set up our defense to fail. A good coach puts his team in the position to succeed. Tomlin's OC is not doing that.

Tomlin has to look in the mirror on this one. Ultimately it's his ass on the line. The ST's problems have existed since he's been here. He's yet to resolve them or hold anyone accountable.

People also forget how talented this team is. We are not talking about a team with a bad Qb or no play makers. This team is loaded. There is no excuse for losing to the Chiefs. The leader is always accountable.

The sky is falling....we just are not a good team right now. Cinci is winning by playing Steeler football. Run the ball, control the clock, and stop the run. Anyone remember how successful that was for us? The Bengals just kicked our ass playing our old game. it makes me sick.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 04:58 PM
I think that it's a good thing that nobody on this board is in charge of the Steelers personnel decisions.It would be a mess after each loss.

devilsdancefloor
11-22-2009, 05:04 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Tomlin is to BLAME!

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

I think we are all upset over the lose maybe take a day and think about it. Im sure there was plenty of hate towards RUN RUN RUN cowher ball. This pass O is really something to get used too. All of us steeler fans are not used to it. Look if wallace doesnt fumble or miller doesnt have iot bounce off his hands i think the out come would be alot different.

SteelCityMan786
11-22-2009, 05:06 PM
I think that it's a good thing that nobody on this board is in charge of the Steelers personnel decisions.It would be a mess after each loss.

:iagree: People forget that the FO and Coaching Staff can only do so much. If the players don't execute, then the scoreboard will show it.

supa_fly_steeler
11-22-2009, 05:07 PM
Our defence was actually good, 200 yards through 4 quarters was good. roethlisberger is to blame, throwing 2 picks in the redzone, 1 returned for 94 yards which pretty much ended a touchdown, a waste of 14 points yes he played a good game but that was the cause of our loss. throwing a redzone pick is non excusable.

this is my opinion, we lost the game we need to put it behind us and show up bigtime next week.

cakmakli
11-22-2009, 05:09 PM
I'm not a football genius and don't pretend to be but it is ridiculous to say the coaches don't bear some responsibility. I've been in the Army for 26 years and if my Soldiers fail to execute their mission then it is my fault - not theirs. I'm the one that failed to lead them, I'm the one that failed to motivate them, and I'm the one that failed to train them to succeed.

As a leader Tomlin is ultimately responsible for the losses and I think he would be the first to agree.

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 05:09 PM
You're being brutally unfair, Tony. I have absolutely no problem with constructive critcism but from what I've been reading, the criticism is destructive and reeks of FWF'ism. :poop:

The coaches didn't give up 24 - YES 24 - points to the hapless Chiefs. The PLAYERS did."brutal"????

the players didnt fire anthony madison, or play ping pong with carey davis (who isnt even contributing). the players dont make token gestures of firing harrison, and making a token effort of activation donnovan woods. the players dont decide to hire a young flop plus a special teams assistant.

the players dont draw up a gameplan that is going to be 75% pass/ 25% run. atleast this week it improved to about 65%/35%. the players arent the ones to figure out that if we get a bit more balanced, we are moving closer to a win.

i understand you are sick of the bitching after a loss (or even a win) but im a bit sick of the CONSTANT coddling of the coaches, as if they can NEVER do no wrong.

there is a proven formula of winning in pittsburgh. cowher virtually NEVER lost with a 10 point lead. if arians wasnt trying to get ben into the pro-bowl, ben woulda had about 5-8 more passes in teh 2nd half and rashard and willie woulda both finished the day with 100 yds rushing.

it reeks of coaching stubbornness much more than a lack of execution. im beginning to think that is the weak and easy excuse. arians worked with cowher and has been exposed to the formula. it doesnt take the fans to tell him what it is.

now the opponents know part of his gameplan is an intercepted ball coming out of the half.

its bad enough the ravens already know they will be spotted 7 points on a return, before we ever kick off.

that is what we do. the steelers are what they put on tape.

that is the reality of the situation as of right now.

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 05:11 PM
:iagree: People forget that the FO and Coaching Staff can only do so much. If the players don't execute, then the scoreboard will show it.other people forget that coaches get paid to do a job too...

redst3
11-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Mike just said at a press conference that the blame lays with him. That kind of settles the whole thing, doesn't it? He manned up, he is the guy to blame and hopefully he will be the guy to fix it.

The whole game just blew. That KC team shouldnt even be on the same field with the Champs.

supa_fly_steeler
11-22-2009, 05:12 PM
I still cant believe people are bitching about our defence is 200 yards not good enough?. do we need to give up less than 50 yards a game to satisfy needs

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 05:14 PM
lol I think you just dont get it dude.

Look at the Steelers record without and with Troy .....then tell me it has nothing to do with Troy being injured ;)

and then what you might want to fire Tomlin if we dont make playoffs ? That would be brilliant after a SB win...we could be the new Washington Redskins and sign free agents for 100 millions over 7 yrs and then lacking space on the cap to re-sign our players oh no I forgot we wouldnt have to cause we would trade out our draft picks as well

I think I get it just fine thank you. I've been Steeler fan for over 45 years now. I never said Tomlin should be fired. That was a comment by someone else.

Tomlin is HEAD COACH. He has the responsibility. He bears some of the blame for this debacle.

He has step up and start making some changes. He's a great motivator and a players coach but is he enough of a disciplinarian? Particularly with his coaching staff?

We will see.

As far as Troy. If this team can not win with Troy then we are in serious trouble since Troy may be out for the next four weeks.

tmacsteelerfan
11-22-2009, 05:15 PM
I disagree about Tomlin not trying to do anything with special teams, but it's amazing to think we haven't won a game yet without Troy.

Angus Burgher
11-22-2009, 05:15 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them.

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 05:16 PM
:iagree: People forget that the FO and Coaching Staff can only do so much. If the players don't execute, then the scoreboard will show it.

This is a team that went 14-2 against the toughest team in the NFL last year.

Did the players forget how to execute in 9 months?

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 05:17 PM
r. clark, keisel, and harrison all volunteered to play special teams this week to help the team.

coach told them "no" and said that was just a band-aid.

well now instead of a bandaid, it looks like we may be needing a transfusion.

i think tomlin has made all the right moves and im certainly not calling him out, but in reality, we cant keep expecting him to bat a thousand on every managerial decision he makes.

BozMan
11-22-2009, 05:18 PM
Hopefully this game will finally cause Tomlin to get over his stubborn refusal to use more starters on special teams. I understand he needs to develop good role players for the long run, but this current approach has cost us 2 winnable games now.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 05:18 PM
Tomlin is to blame for the interceptions.

Tomlin is to blame for Wallace's fumble

Tomlin is to blame for the dropped interception by Taylor

Tomlin is to blame for the bad coverages by William Gay and Ike Taylor in the 2nd half.

Tomlin is to blame for the miss-tackling in the 2nd half.


I hope he knows that next time these things happen again he will be fire.IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.We pay these guys millions of dollars,the COACH SHOULD MAKE THEM BE READY.

IT'S ALL ON THE COACH.

Oh by the way,it's raining here.....TOMLIN IS TO BlaME FOR THAT AS WELL

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 05:19 PM
I still cant believe people are bitching about our defence is 200 yards not good enough?. do we need to give up less than 50 yards a game to satisfy needs

I didn't see the defense coming through when the game was on the line, did you? Ike doesn't drop that INT, it gives the offense another chance to try to win it. How about allowing not one, but TWO TD drives of 90+ yards? And let's not forget the totally blown coverage on the Pope TD and somehow allowing Chris Chambers to run free when you know that ANY big play pretty much costs you the game.

Yes, they absolutely deserve blame for failing to close out a team YET AGAIN.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 05:20 PM
I think I get it just fine thank you. I've been Steeler fan for over 45 years now. I never said Tomlin should be fired. That was a comment by someone else.

Tomlin is HEAD COACH. He has the responsibility. He bears some of the blame for this debacle.

He has step up and start making some changes. He's a great motivator and a players coach but is he enough of a disciplinarian? Particularly with his coaching staff?

We will see.

As far as Troy. If this team can not win with Troy then we are in serious trouble since Troy may be out for the next four weeks.

that is my take exactly.

Tomlin is to blame for some of the decisions.(ST TD is unacceptable).I for myself do not agree to throw the ball that much in a game.I'm a smashmouth football kind of guy but hey that's what we have so let's deal with it.

Hopefully we can beat the Ravens next week and keep our hopes of clinching a playoff spot.

supa_fly_steeler
11-22-2009, 05:21 PM
I didn't see the defense coming through when the game was on the line, did you? Ike doesn't drop that INT, it gives the offense another chance to try to win it. How about allowing not one, but TWO TD drives of 90+ yards? And let's not forget the totally blown coverage on the Pope TD and somehow allowing Chris Chambers to run free when you know that ANY big play pretty much costs you the game.

Yes, they absolutely deserve blame for failing to close out a team YET AGAIN.

as stated above, that wouldnt of happen if roethlisberger did not throw 2 picks inside the redzone.

T.Richardson
11-22-2009, 05:21 PM
500 total yards of offense...and lose?

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 05:22 PM
Hopefully this game will finally cause Tomlin to get over his stubborn refusal to use more starters on special teams. I understand he needs to develop good role players for the long run, but this current approach has cost us 2 winnable games now.

and then if Silverback gets injured during a ST play people will blame Tomlin for playing him on ST

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 05:23 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them.

Wow. Just wow.

This post doesn't deserve any more of a response than that.

Hey Tony? You want to know why HTG gets so pissed off when people get negative on this board? May I present Exhibit A?

supa_fly_steeler
11-22-2009, 05:23 PM
and then if Silverback gets injured during a ST play people will blame Tomlin for playing him on ST

Everyone would want him out if that happened, i suggest we just scan free agency for solidified special teams players, there could be some out there, that actually want a job and will do everything to even get more than special teams action.

MACH1
11-22-2009, 05:24 PM
Tomlin is to blame for the interceptions.

Tomlin is to blame for Wallace's fumble

Tomlin is to blame for the dropped interception by Taylor

Tomlin is to blame for the bad coverages by William Gay and Ike Taylor in the 2nd half.

Tomlin is to blame for the miss-tackling in the 2nd half.


I hope he knows that next time these things happen again he will be fire.IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.We pay these guys millions of dollars,the COACH SHOULD MAKE THEM BE READY.

IT'S ALL ON THE COACH.

Oh by the way,it's raining here.....TOMLIN IS TO BlaME FOR THAT AS WELL

Tomlin's to blame for the game plan.

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 05:25 PM
as stated above, that wouldnt of happen if roethlisberger did not throw 2 picks inside the redzone.

Since when was the 46 yard line the red zone? :noidea:

He only threw one pick in the red zone which was clearly tipped by the defender in his windup.

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 05:25 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them.

wow. now this is knee jerk and melodramatic.

tomlin is the finest young coach in the league.

that doesnt mean he is exempt from critisizm or beyond reproach.

this however is completely insane.

supa_fly_steeler
11-22-2009, 05:26 PM
Since when was the 46 yard line the red zone? :noidea:

He only threw one pick in the red zone which was clearly tipped by the defender in his windup.

yea well anyway that 94 yard return imo was mistake of the match.

he should not always throw all the time, he continued to throw against the bengals even when fanane was in midair, just tipped as always.

i love ben but that was a big mistake, he should of just tried to run it in or give it to mendenhall, the chiefs were missing tackles all day, i just hope we show up bigtime on NBC.

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 05:26 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them.

what do you suggest ? firing Tomlin and hiring you instead ? That would work..

ricksteelers55
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
yea well anyway that 94 yard return imo was mistake of the match.

i love ben but that was a big mistake, he should of just tried to run it in, the chiefs were missing tackles all day, i just hope we show up bigtime on NBC.

the mistake I think was a 5 WR empty backfield playcall inside the 15.Never been a fan of that formation in the redzone you basically tell the other team what your play is gonna be.It will be a passing play to either Ward or Miller.

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
Wow. Just wow.

This post doesn't deserve any more of a response than that.

Hey Tony? You want to know why HTG gets so pissed off when people get negative on this board? May I present Exhibit A?i already know. thank you :hatsoff:

but to accuse my honest critisism as being "brutal" because of jagoffs like this, escapes me. :noidea:

43Hitman
11-22-2009, 05:28 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them.
Seriously??? Well, don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. I can see being pissed at some of the decisions, but dropping F-Bombs? Grow up already.

gameface75
11-22-2009, 05:36 PM
Yes indeed its time for Tomlin to take some lumps ,for allowing this Bullshit to go on. If you see that the game plan is not working week after week ,and you dont do anything about it ,then you are as just as guilty all the other coaches.

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 05:37 PM
wow. now this is knee jerk and melodramatic.

tomlin is the finest young coach in the league.

that doesnt mean he is exempt from critisizm or beyond reproach.

this however is completely insane.

The poster may be being sarcastic.

Tomlin is going to have to earn his pay.

How well he does cleaning up this mess will determine his future. Just like anyone else who has a position of authority. I'm quite certain he will not be fired after this season even if we don't make the playoffs.

But we can not continue to regress the way we have been.

Godfather
11-22-2009, 05:41 PM
I love Tomlin but the coaches did a lousy job today.

The play calling in overtime, when we got to the edge of Reed's range, was horrible. It was as bad as LSU's game management yesterday.

Plus we had a bonehead decision that ended up not mattering--we punted with 12 seconds left on the play clock near the end of regulation. Should have milked the whole play clock so the Chiefs would only have 14-15 seconds (or have to burn their timeout).

steelwalls
11-22-2009, 05:43 PM
On paper we owned them. These things happen. However special teams needs to be fixed and fixed now, but it seems like we are saying that every year doesnt it.....

Steel_12
11-22-2009, 05:46 PM
I have to say it. I hate Tomlin. I've never seen a coach fail to make improvements so consistently. Any time an area appears to be "fixed," it collapses a week or two later. Let's see, so how are we looking now...

ST always allows a TD
Defense collapses in the 2nd half
Running game can't get it together
O-Line can't block
Best defensive player injured
QB possibly injured

Let's see, did I miss anything? Tomlin, you're in over your head. Your success is due to the fact that you inherited a good team and now you're damn near killing them. F**k you.

Wow...you're blaming Tomlin for Troy and Ben getting hurt? LMAO...you really sound stupid. As I recall, last year our line couldn't block, our running game was trash and we still won the Super Bowl. You hate him? Grow up!

BradfordTheGreat
11-22-2009, 05:53 PM
In a loss like this, everyone deserves blame.

But in this one, we dominated:

-Total Yards: 515-282 (passing 401-214, rushing 114-68)
-First Downs: 27-13
-Time of Poss: 44:07-22:25

Clearly, its not a coaching loss, this one should have been put away.

The coaches kept doing what was working, and we should have scored several more times than we did. It all came down to finishing drives (remember last week?) and we turned it over 3 times on drives that were going strong and had all indications of finishing with a score.

We need to learn how to seal off games, and fast.

Christian Snyder
11-22-2009, 05:53 PM
Tomlin sucks!! fire him!!! No, wait, fire the whole coaching staff!!!!! We suck...We don't deserve to go to the playoffs... THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

stillers4me
11-22-2009, 05:55 PM
Just solving the special teams problem will go along way in pointing them in the right direction. And thats Tomlin's responsibilty. I trust him to make it right.

SteelTalons
11-22-2009, 05:57 PM
People acting like spoiled kids around here I see... Again. :doh:

MillerMania83
11-22-2009, 06:08 PM
I hate to say, actually it's klling me too, but we are just not that good right now, for a bunch of reasons....ST's have been ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, injuries are klling us (but every team has injuries, NO EXCUSES) and IMO just TERRIBLE STUPID play calling....I've never liked BA and I still don't, and the last couple of weeks really are not helping....That 3rd and 2 call was HIDEOUS....The PASS PASS PASS mentality is getting old, especially when it seems the running game is coming along...I can go on and on....I know Troy is ALL WORLD, and not having him in there would be a HUGE LOSS, but I just didn't think our D would drop off so much where it's to the point of BAD when ya need a big play to stop a big drive, they just ain't gettin' it done, and I believe alot of that has to do with pure talent in the secondary, as IMO it's just not there without #43 (INT's DROPPED EVERY WEEK)....And if Ben is out for any length of time, I hate to say it and I don't want to see, but this season is just gonna get uglier every week, unless changes are made....And as always, it all starts at the top, Tomlin ABSOLUTELY has to step up and take the responsibility for what's going on right now with out beloved Black and Gold, as always, JMO>

stillers4me
11-22-2009, 06:13 PM
People acting like spoiled kids around here I see... Again. :doh:

So it's ok to lose to 2-7 team? The Steelers are not playing OR being coached to their potential and I'll be damned if anybody tells it's not ok to say that. We have too much talent on this team to lose these kind of games. If we didn't, I'd just say that we are playing at our expected level and say better luck next year, rah rah rah. But this is total waste of talent and skill. I don't expect to win Superbowls every year, but we are much better than this.

silver & black
11-22-2009, 06:20 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Tomlin is to BLAME!

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

Trust me... I know. Untill you have endured what us Raiders fans have endured... quit :crying01:

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 06:23 PM
Trust me... I know. Untill you have endured what us Raiders fans have endured... quit :crying01:

Dude has a point...

Dodt
11-22-2009, 06:30 PM
actually i blame Obama for sending Mr Rooney to Ireland as the main reason for the four losses ,we should be perfect each week shutting every body out by at least 31 points . all joking aside mike really needs to light a fire under everybody players and coaches alike . lets be honest folks how often do teams repeat wining championships in the modern era , its not a common place. the only way i'm calling for tomlins head on a platter is if we get blown out of the water by the browns . lets remeber he still is at the beginning of his head coaching career.
yeah i know he won it all in his second year but this is a test for him , where the team goes from here on in will define coach tomlin.

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Dude has a point...the raiders have had art shell vol.II, a 14 year old college kid, and a cable guy as their head coach since cowher has resigned.

i think the standard of excellence is just a tad bit higher in pittsburgh than in oakland.

just because losing to a suck ass team like the chiefs is just another typical ho-hum day for raiderfans, is no reason for steelefans to not be upset.

it is inexcusable. you said it yourself. :noidea:

AllD
11-22-2009, 06:34 PM
Tomlin did not throw another red zone pick two weeks in a row. Give Holmes and the D credit for keeping it to 3 points. Better play calling and some serious introspection on STs needs to be done or this team is done for the year.

silver & black
11-22-2009, 06:34 PM
I've read through this whole thread. I usually stay out of the Steelers room... it's your's, and outsiders really shouldn't tread here, IMO, but... As a long time fan of the Raiders (42 years)... a team that has been horrendous, to say the least, for the better part of this decade... I would kill to have your coaching staff and ownership. The Raiders would be unstoppable with what you are crying about!

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 07:00 PM
I've read through this whole thread. I usually stay out of the Steelers room... it's your's, and outsiders really shouldn't tread here, IMO, but... As a long time fan of the Raiders (42 years)... a team that has been horrendous, to say the least, for the better part of this decade... I would kill to have your coaching staff and ownership. The Raiders would be unstoppable with what you are crying about!

Not even our coaching staff could overcome Al Davis's ownership.

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 07:00 PM
So it's ok to lose to 2-7 team? The Steelers are not playing OR being coached to their potential and I'll be damned if anybody tells it's not ok to say that. We have too much talent on this team to lose these kind of games. If we didn't, I'd just say that we are playing at our expected level and say better luck next year, rah rah rah. But this is total waste of talent and skill. I don't expect to win Superbowls every year, but we are much better than this.

You can say whatever you like, Sue, but I can disagree whenever I like as well. :drink:

You are spot on that we are a better team than this - no doubt about it. What I have noticed more than anything this season is that the passion and fire seem to be missing more often than not and that isn't a good thing any way you look at it. The Steelers D seems to become complacement in the 2nd half and don't look anything like the great D we are used to seeing out on that field. Not having our best defensive player on the field has hurt us, undoubtedly, but I don't believe that is the whole crux.

What I get pissed off about is the sense of entitlement that some fans seem to have. You've been a Steelers fan as long as I have and you know that there are highs and lows with every sports franchise out there - it's inevitable. The Steelers pretty much stunk before the 70's era and went through a series of lows in the 80's and off and on in the early 90's, but as I said in another thread - the Steelers don't stay in a "down cycle" for very long unlike other sports franchises (i.e. the Pirates, Lions, Browns, Maple Leafs, etc.) and in that regard, we are extremely blessed. I never go into a season expecting my teams to win every game, get into the playoffs and win the big prize, but I am tickled psychedelic pink when they do. :thumbsup:

I am, admittedly, an eternal optimist and tend to see the positives in most situations and the good in everyone (sometimes foolishly). If I wasn't that way, I would have began my dirt nap many moons ago. I apply that same mantra to the teams I love and live by the credo that the players and coaches aren't superhuman - they are exposed to the same flaws as us ordinary Joes and Janes. While I am disappointed when they :poop: the bed as they did this afternoon in KC, my disappointment wanes and I gear myself up for the next game, get behind my team and hope for the best. If that makes me a "cheerleader" as I was called in another thread, I will proudly wear that title. :cheer: :cheer: At least no one can ever call me a FWF.

I also live by the mantra that you win as a team and also lose as a team (and yes, that DOES include coaches). When I see the finger pointing that goes on not only after losses but after WINS - especially coming off of 2 Super Bowl wins in a period of 4 years, it chaps my azz to the point I can't sit. :horror:

HometownGal
11-22-2009, 07:01 PM
I've read through this whole thread. I usually stay out of the Steelers room... it's your's, and outsiders really shouldn't tread here, IMO, but... As a long time fan of the Raiders (42 years)... a team that has been horrendous, to say the least, for the better part of this decade... I would kill to have your coaching staff and ownership. The Raiders would be unstoppable with what you are crying about!

Post of the day. :applaudit::hatsoff::thumbsup:

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Tomlin did not throw another red zone pick two weeks in a row. Give Holmes and the D credit for keeping it to 3 points. Better play calling and some serious introspection on STs needs to be done or this team is done for the year.

"Better play calling", "Special Teams": If the assistant coaches are not getting it done then it's Tomlin's responsibility to fix the problem.

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 07:08 PM
the raiders have had art shell vol.II, a 14 year old college kid, and a cable guy as their head coach since cowher has resigned.

i think the standard of excellence is just a tad bit higher in pittsburgh than in oakland.

just because losing to a suck ass team like the chiefs is just another typical ho-hum day for raiderfans, is no reason for steelefans to not be upset.

it is inexcusable. you said it yourself. :noidea:

The Steelers have gone from the Super Bowl to a 6-4 team that still has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. The Raiders have gone from the Super Bowl to being the laughingstock of the league. Therefore, there really is no comparison to what we are going through and what Raider fans are going through. That is his point. It goes beyond how we all feel about today's game.

SteelC7
11-22-2009, 07:08 PM
bottom line this team isnt executing in any of the 3 phases of the game, and ben, arians, the special teams players, and the defense is to blame...not injuries, the colts have injuries 24/7. yet they alwasy seems to do well...the steelers just no longer have what it takes apparently, if u dont win the games ur supposed to, how do u win the tough ones? il be surprised if we go 10-6

Christian Snyder
11-22-2009, 07:11 PM
bottom line this team isnt executing in any of the 3 phases of the game, and ben, arians, the special teams players, and the defense is to blame...not injuries, the colts have injuries 24/7. yet they alwasy seems to do well...the steelers just no longer have what it takes apparently, if u dont win the games ur supposed to, how do u win the tough ones? il be surprised if we go 10-6
I didn't now that passing for almost 400 yds. means you aren't executing?

OX1947
11-22-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm glad someone started this thread. Because I have played ball, maybe not NFL, but I have played and watched enough to know the game. And even knowing and playing, the end all be all is common sense when it comes to anything. Football, life, etc. Tomlin's coaching is extremely irritating. The common sense factor is lost. Why OH BLEEPIN why are they giving Mendenhall 15 rushes a game when the son of a gun is getting 4 and 5 yards a carry. Why do you run a Sweep with the slowest running back we have. I didnt mind the sweep, but how bout giving it to the fastest and strongest guy you have who has been slicing the other team all day. And why the BLEEP do they always pick plays and lose 50 yards on 3rd downs. These are all coaching problems. The coaches job is to put the best situation on the field for their players. Instead, they go shot gun on 3rd and 2 and run a 3 step drop all freakin game and get it batted down or sacked.

Special team gaffs are execution issues. I dont blame that on coaching all the way. It has something to do with it, but execution is key there. And the players aren't doing it. The other thing that is killing this team is dropped INTs. Dropped INTs have cost the steelers the last two games. Pure and Simple.

If Big Ben wants a career that last longer then 8 seasons, he is either going to have to learn to throw the damn ball away or throw the ball quicker. Yah, its great when Ben improvs, but he is human and he will not last 10 years if he keeps waiting 15 seconds to throw the ball. What kills me with this is he wouldnt have to. Mendenhall is a 1600 runner. Be a run team and play off it damn it.

Steeldude
11-22-2009, 07:56 PM
it doesnt have anything to do with Tomlin

head coaches are at blame as well as players and the other coaches.

mesaSteeler
11-22-2009, 07:56 PM
I'm glad someone started this thread. Because I have played ball, maybe not NFL, but I have played and watched enough to know the game. And even knowing and playing, the end all be all is common sense when it comes to anything. Football, life, etc. Tomlin's coaching is extremely irritating. The common sense factor is lost. Why OH BLEEPIN why are they giving Mendenhall 15 rushes a game when the son of a gun is getting 4 and 5 yards a carry. Why do you run a Sweep with the slowest running back we have. I didnt mind the sweep, but how bout giving it to the fastest and strongest guy you have who has been slicing the other team all day. And why the BLEEP do they always pick plays and lose 50 yards on 3rd downs. These are all coaching problems. The coaches job is to put the best situation on the field for their players. Instead, they go shot gun on 3rd and 2 and run a 3 step drop all freakin game and get it batted down or sacked.

Special team gaffs are execution issues. I dont blame that on coaching all the way. It has something to do with it, but execution is key there. And the players aren't doing it. The other thing that is killing this team is dropped INTs. Dropped INTs have cost the steelers the last two games. Pure and Simple.

If Big Ben wants a career that last longer then 8 seasons, he is either going to have to learn to throw the damn ball away or throw the ball quicker. Yah, its great when Ben improvs, but he is human and he will not last 10 years if he keeps waiting 15 seconds to throw the ball. What kills me with this is he wouldnt have to. Mendenhall is a 1600 runner. Be a run team and play off it damn it.

Since you have played the game how would define the relationship between coaching and execution?

How much responsibility do the coaches have when the players do not execute. None? 10%.. 20% .... .... 100%?

It's the coaches job to put our players in positions where they can excel. Are our coaches doing that? It would hard to argue that they are on special teams.

Ravenssuck
11-22-2009, 07:58 PM
I agree , to a point...

It is Tomlin's fault ONLY because he REFUSES to FIRE Ligashitsky AND Ariens...

If those two BUFFOONS were gone, the Steelers could breathe a LOT EASIER!!!!

COULD SOMEONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND PLEEEEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY A 160 POUND GUY WHO GETS SHOVED OUT OF THE WAY WITH ONE ARM CONTINUES TO BE ON KICK COVERAGE TEAMS?????????? ( Logan SHOULD be on the "Return" teams, but coverage units??? NOT!!!!!)

I am having trouble believing that Coach Tomlin is acting like an OSTRICH (I.E. burying his head in the sand) While LIGASHITSKY and ARIENS DESTROY WHAT IS LEFT OF OUR SEASON!!!!!!:banging:

I really have high regard for Coach Tomlin , HOWEVER, if he just sits on his hands and does NOTHING, well what does that say about him??? (8 touchdowns in 8 games... whew, I'm having trouble believing it myself)

C'mon MIKE!!! Grow a set... Dump those CLOWNS Before it is TOO LATE!!!!!!!

P.S. a surgeon does not wait until GANGRENE sets in before lopping off a leg.(it must be done BEFORE Gangrene sets in or else the PATIENT LIKELY DIES)

GO STEELERS!!!

tony hipchest
11-22-2009, 08:01 PM
The Steelers have gone from the Super Bowl to a 6-4 team that still has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. The Raiders have gone from the Super Bowl to being the laughingstock of the league. Therefore, there really is no comparison to what we are going through and what Raider fans are going through. That is his point. It goes beyond how we all feel about today's game.exactly. the raiders completely suck and their fans have every reason to cry and whine.

the steelers have every reason to believe they were gonna defend their crown, and have every reason to be pissed, when they fall short.

i will defend anyone in steelernation who is rightfully pissed, and take umbrage with any fan of a suckier team who calls it "crying".

:hunch:

there is a HUGE difference. sure their have been asshats who have posted the typical "fire tomlin" crap, but when all the others who arent posting rose petals with lavender incence and shooting rainbows out their ass is lumped into that category, is when i find it completely f%#ked up.

if steelersfever isnt expected (and even encouraged to NOT be) be a "kumbaya" board in the political forum, i would expect the same here.

i am not gonna accept a raiderfans (or anyone elses) definition of our reaction to this loss.... not even the highest and almightiest of steelerfans. :noidea:

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 08:01 PM
Arians and Ligashesky are not going to be fired at this point in the season no matter how much anyone screams and yells about it. Ligashesky certainly has earned his pink slip IMO, but even I know it isn't going to happen now. So please...enough already.

X-Terminator
11-22-2009, 08:08 PM
exactly. the raiders completely suck and their fans have every reason to cry and whine.

the steelers have every reason to believe they were gonna defend their crown, and have every reason to be pissed, when they fall short.

i will defend anyone in steelernation who is rightfully pissed, and take umbrage with any fan of a suckier team who calls it "crying".

:hunch:

there is a HUGE difference. sure their have been asshats who have posted the typical "fire tomlin" crap, but when all the others who arent posting rose petals with lavender incence and shooting rainbows out their ass is lumped into that category, is when i find it completely f%#ked up.

if steelersfever isnt expected (and even encouraged to NOT be) be a "kumbaya" board in the political forum, i would expect the same here.

i am not gonna accept a raiderfans (or anyone elses) definition of our reaction to this loss.... not even the highest and almightiest of steelerfans. :noidea:

Quit beating around the bush, Tony. If you're going to obviously call someone out, at least mention the name.

I mean really...how dare someone not be a FWF and never lose faith in their teams no matter what. When did that become a crime? :noidea: You'd think you'd be commended for that.

Rick5895
11-22-2009, 08:11 PM
I didn't now that passing for almost 400 yds. means you aren't executing?

An offense that gains over 500 yards and scores only 24 points IS NOT EXECUTING at critical times. many reasons for that.

1. lack of execution by players at those critical times (this includes mental mistakes such as penalties)

2. poor play calling and ridiculas formations (5 reciever sets /shotgun in red zone)

3. The players being complacent (we are the steelers every one else will bow down.

4. players not being prepared.

This all ultimately rest with the head coach, however the players need to accept responsibilty

silver & black
11-22-2009, 08:17 PM
Not even our coaching staff could overcome Al Davis's ownership.

I know, that's why I included your ownership in there. :wink02:

JEFF4i
11-22-2009, 08:24 PM
Now, this is far from the end of the world. Thanks to my less than good buddies Raiders, we can still win the AFC North.

However, here are 3 big things I think will need work in the future.

1) Special Teams. This one is obvious. It's one thing when it's the Bengals or Vikings, but the Chiefs aren't quicker than we are.

2) Defense lacks tenacity. Last year, when the DEFENSE needed to win games, more often than not, they did. Where is that this year? They have the breathing room to not need to win games but control them, and excluding a few games, they haven't done it.

3) The pitch. It's a crappy call. I may not be offensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers, but you don't put a big gain big loss on a 3rd down in the hands of the slowest back we've got. No offense MeMo, but if you're going to run him, you go up the gut. There's no moxy, or sense in this call. Go up the gut, snag 1 or 2, maybe the first. Fleaflicker, why not? Batch showed he can throw the ball, we all know he can, and if it's incomplete, well 53 yard attempt. Or you go for it on 4th. Slant. Ward has hands. Wallace has hands. Miller has hands. Holmes we know can catch when it counts.

It's not just that there were other/better plays that had equal chance of being a first with less of a chance of loss, but that it was most necessary at this point.

My 3rd point is the least important of all of them, really. I may even switch out 1 and 2. But 1 and 2 are also intertwined. Being down 7 with 59:46 to go is not okay. It's inexcusable, and it's happening too often.

Thankfully, I still have faith in Tomlin and think these problems will be resolved.

silver & black
11-22-2009, 08:26 PM
exactly. the raiders completely suck and their fans have every reason to cry and whine.

the steelers have every reason to believe they were gonna defend their crown, and have every reason to be pissed, when they fall short.

i will defend anyone in steelernation who is rightfully pissed, and take umbrage with any fan of a suckier team who calls it "crying".

:hunch:

there is a HUGE difference. sure their have been asshats who have posted the typical "fire tomlin" crap, but when all the others who arent posting rose petals with lavender incence and shooting rainbows out their ass is lumped into that category, is when i find it completely f%#ked up.

if steelersfever isnt expected (and even encouraged to NOT be) be a "kumbaya" board in the political forum, i would expect the same here.

i am not gonna accept a raiderfans (or anyone elses) definition of our reaction to this loss.... not even the highest and almightiest of steelerfans. :noidea:

Sorry if I overstepped my bounds Tony, but. when I hear fans of good teams cry about their team having a bad game.... well... let's just say, I really have no sympathy after what I have put up with for the past 7 years. :chuckle:

I really wasn't telling any of you how you should react or feel about this loss... only trying to give a little perspective from an outsider.

Ravenssuck
11-22-2009, 08:28 PM
If I was a security guard at "best buy" (Ligashefsky), and i continually let a Criminal come in and take a TV Set for eight weeks in a row... well, guess what?? after the 2nd or 3rd time i would have been FIRED!!!!

AND, lets say that i was a wedding cake designer (Ariens), and I continually put the wrong names/colors on the cakes... how many screw-ups would it take before I got "Shit-canned"??? 2?? 3?? 4?? why does Ariens get "Carte Blanche" when it comes to being a doofus???


P.S. I'm not "screaming and yelling" , just pondering why these guys get SO MUCH LENIENCY????:toofunny:

steel striker
11-22-2009, 08:30 PM
Well people here are going to say what they want but, Ben did make some big plays today. Also he made a back breaking red zone int. You live by the sword you die by the sword. I mean that one td pass he mad a defender miss almost like ab back body drop then threw a td. Special teams unit needs simply to tackle better and, it is hard to understand that last year we were good. The bright side is we are still alive for a wc spot and, bungals lost to the raiders. Time to get ready for the rats. You can complain about the last two weeks but, it won't do any good time to move on. I more concerned about the oline at this point with Kemo and Starks going down is going to make it tough for next week vs the rats. Of course I hope Ben is okay man he took a shot and, we all know how tough ben is.

GoSlash27
11-22-2009, 08:49 PM
It's not Tomlin, it's the team, this team plays with no passion.
That's *why* it's ultimately his fault. It's his job to get this team playing inspired football.

He gets my kick-in-the-rear this week. Thankfully, I know he'll step up and execute, and next week we won't see this team playing flat. We may have other issues that cost us the game, but I don't expect it to be lack of preparation and effort.

GoSlash27
11-23-2009, 12:40 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d81466286/Steelers-postgame-press-conference

Exactly right. He manned up and took the responsibility. I have every confidence that he's gonna set it straight for next week.

eafratitpm3
11-23-2009, 12:57 AM
It's not Tomlin, it's the team, this team plays with no passion. What happened to the team that played so well in the 3rd Qtr vs Denver? Obviously Denver sucks worse than we do.

Agree totally. This team thinks because they are the SB Champ Steelers they can just show up and beat teams. Don't they understand that teams that play us this year this is their SB. This lacksadasical attitude that the Steelers have is very frustrating.

I can name only a few guys that are playing with fire this year, all year:
Hines, Mendenhall, Keamoto, Wallace, Heath
Harrison, D-Line, Farrior, Carter, Clark, Troy

I apologize if I missed someone but these guys are bringing it every week.

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 01:21 AM
I think some people have it backwards. I think when you gain 500 yards on offense but only score 24 points then you have took at the play calling.

We physically dominate teams. We have more talent then most if not ALL teams in the NFL. There is no question that we have more talent then the Chiefs...yet we lost. If you can't point the fingers at the coaches then you are in denial.


To me it's pretty obvious. Our offense is one dimensional. It allows defenses to pin their ears back and just go after Ben. To me that is setting up your O-line to fail...I don't care how good they are. It is also asking too much from your QB to throw 44+ times per game and not make a mistake. The playcalling is setting our Offense to fail. Yea we might move the ball but eventually sacks will happen, balls will get tipped, INt's will get run back. It's like driving a car 100 MPH through city streets.....if you are a talented driver you might get pretty far but eventually you'll wreck. To me that is EXACTLY what our offense has been doing every single week.

We need balance. We need to slow things down, make less mistakes, grind out the clock...keep the opponent off the field, keep our defense fresh, etc. etc etc. Bill Cowher won a lot of games driving the speed limit. It works. The friggen Bengals beat us twice but just playing it safe and letting us mistake our selves into a loss. That used to be our philosophy and we won a couple SB's doing it.

Arians has a fast car now so he thinks he needs to put the pedal to the medal.

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 01:27 AM
As for the special teams issues....that's all on Tomlin. You can't do the same things over and over and expect different results. A coaching change MUST be made w/ our ST's unit.

Our back ups are no more or less talented then any other team in the league. We've had plenty of different players on our ST's over the last 3 years and for the most part they've consistently been BAD. There has to be a ST's coach out there looking for a job. Send your players a message....make a coaching change. There is no ST's coach in the league that would survive such failure w/ their unit. We are breaking records.

MasterOfPuppets
11-23-2009, 01:33 AM
why in the hell is logan on return coverage ? hell sweed was even on coverage the other week !!! i don't get having offensive players who NEVER practice tackling on a play that requires being a good tackler.....:banging:

fansince'76
11-23-2009, 01:37 AM
It isn't falling yet? R u serious? We can start talking about the draft.

Fine, go talk about it. Preferably somewhere else. I'll wait to see how the next six games shake out first. :coffee:

OX1947
11-23-2009, 01:45 AM
Since you have played the game how would define the relationship between coaching and execution?

How much responsibility do the coaches have when the players do not execute. None? 10%.. 20% .... .... 100%?

It's the coaches job to put our players in positions where they can excel. Are our coaches doing that? It would hard to argue that they are on special teams.

I tend to not blame the coaches most of the time. Players are the ones who play. It's just like when a coach calls a draw on 3rd down, if we make it, genius call, if he doesn't, what the hell was he thinking. And thats fine. That is a part of the game.

Special teams is all on the players. There is only so much a coach can do. The only control really, a coach has is the personal he has in there. apparently the personal isn't good and its not getting better and it is risky to put in starters in there for fear of injuries.

Now, I do not think there are percentages of what a player is worth as appose to a coach. Players are the ones making the plays, however, like the special teams, it is 100% the coaches decision on who is in there and what plays are being called.

The offense is not adjusting to what defenses are doing to them throughout a 60 min game. That is why the Steelers keep blowing 10 point leads and fourth quarter leads. When you keep passing the ball for 60 min, the receivers get more tired, the offensive lineman get more tired backpedaling to protect. It is not an accident that offensive lineman like to run block. Its less stress and easier to go forward then backward.

Lastly, the biggest killer this season, more so then I have ever seen, is dropped balls. Dropped balls have cost the steelers 4 games this year. Whether it was for INTs or TDs. Gay dropping 3 of them last week, Holmes dropping that TD. Ike's butterfingers today. Sweed in Chicago, Holmes, in Cincy the first time they played. I mean it is burning the team so badly.

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 02:08 AM
If you put your players in position to fail, they'll probably fail.

Coaching means everything in the NFL. There's a reason why some ST coaches consistently produce top notch coverage units. It's no different then any other aspect of the game. There's a reason our defense under Dick Lebeau consistently is in the top 5 in the league....and it's not because we draft better then other teams.

ST units are typically back ups in the NFL. You cannot tell me our back ups are any worse or better then most other teams. So when your players consistently can't get it done...then the finger has to point at the coach.

Offensively we are more talented the most if not every team in the league. All Arians has to do is put them in position to not make mistakes and win. Drop Ben back 60% of the time and he'll make mistakes.... I bet he gets sacked a few times as well. When your QB is getting sacked, mistakes will happen. When you are not establishing the run it also means you aren't eating up the clock. The running game will also free up some of those big plays we seem to be going after every other play.

verks36
11-23-2009, 03:12 AM
This AND we punt the ball on 4th and 5 on the 38 YARD LINE???????
:banging:

look at it this way the back up quarterback was in and we have the number 1 Defense in the league... cant blame tomlin for that call

Preacher
11-23-2009, 03:53 AM
I just read the first page, page and a half... and this thread is absolutely hilarious!

I swear the first thing out of people's mouth when we lose is "We throw the ball too much" as if running the ball is going to help.

Jeez..did any of you actually live through the 90's and early 2000's sober? Don't you remember those games we lost to much lesser teams because we couldn't get our run game on track?

Today was the fault of ST's for allowing a TD.

It was the fault of our defense for not being able to clamp down.

It was the fault of our offense for not being able to score TD's.

Those are all plays that were left ON THE FIELD. They were the right plays called, and execution sucked.

Then, there were blown coaching decisions. Punting in OT instead of going for the field goal? Or throwing a pass? Or allowing Mendy to keep running for 2 yards, 1 yard 2 yards yards, 0 yards, when WIllie today was running for 3, 5, 9 yards a pop. (mendy ran well in OT, which is where his 3.+ average came up). Heck, with running that erratic today, I think they should have thrown MORE.. which leads to the other problem....

INJURIES.

We had one guy on the line out, two or three guys out on D, then on the final drive, our starting QB had to take a seat as well.

_____________

So let's bring this a bit into perspective instead of extroverting emotion everywhere.

1. Our players didn't execute as well as they should have.
2. Our coaches blew some decisions
3. Some of our key players were injured.

Sorry if that doesn't help scapegoat a single player OR bode well for a quick fix like "RUN THE BALL MORE"

solardave
11-23-2009, 04:12 AM
sorry folks. its not kosher to blame the coaches around here.

not even the with the abysimal effort from our special teams, week after week.

if the coaches call a 5 wide fly route on every single play it is up to the players to execute it.

if mendenhall is hot, and willie comes off the bench cold, it is up to him to execute.

its that simple.
I'm seeing that. Don't blame the coaches. I mean if Rashard can't run but Willie is having success and is rested, we don't want to use him. It's not the coaches fault we don't run Willie. Then who's fault is it? Did Willie refuse to go back out there. Did Mr. Rooney wire in the plays from Ireland? Lack of execution goes only as far as the best plays being called and anyone thinking there were yesterday is smoking something. The defense did not execute in the forth quarter. Other teams lose key players and can still win. We get to damn conservative with Troy out and end up giving up big plays.

Galax Steeler
11-23-2009, 05:04 AM
head coaches are at blame as well as players and the other coaches.

I have to agree with Steeldude it was a team loss as well as a coaches loss. I say there is enough blame to go around for both.

Preacher
11-23-2009, 05:30 AM
I'm seeing that. Don't blame the coaches.

No, what you are seeing around here is, "Don't scapegoat someone".

It constantly amazes me how some people (Not talking you SD, just in general) don't get it.

Talk about the coaches as PART of the problem. The players as PART of the problem. Talk about what the problem IS.

It just seems that around here, people want to throw a name up, and then jump on the bandwagon to lynch the poor guy, whoever he is. Then, when that person does well, everyone jumps off the bandwagon and onto the next one, as if they never called for that person to be fired. Furthermore, they then can't understand how people don't agree with them, since it is "obvious".

There has been calls for our O line coach to be fired, and most of the guys playing on it. Now? THey are playing very well. Today, they were down one, sometimes two players.

There were calls for Arians to be fired, until he called some SB plays, we won, and then this year our O bailed out our D for the first half of the year.

There were calls for Willie to be benched. Rashard goes in and guess what, His production is the equivalent or LESS than willies' production in YPC in a lot of the games.

Timmons was a bust...
Ben was a bust
Holmes was a bust
Rashard was a bust
Sep. was a wasted draft pick
blah blah blah.


So we lose this week and guess what? Tomlin now has no idea what he's doing. Blame him. He sucks. Rip him up one side and down the other. COMPLETELY ignore the fact that he is trying to buck a Steelers decade long trend. of two strong years followed by one weak year. Completely ignore the fact that he had to deal with multiple injuries today. Completely ignore any thing else that may hinder our pegging him (or another coach) as the ABSOLUTE, ULTIMATE, AND BIGGEST PROBLEM OF THE FRANCHISE.

Sigh.

(let's see how many people respond with, "And you think there's nothing wrong?" "cheerleader" or "Black and Gold Glasses" without even getting through my post and understanding what I am arguing. Dang. Coaches were wrong...Today. Players didn't execute... Today.)

Aussie_steeler
11-23-2009, 05:56 AM
Tomlin strikes me as a man with pride, dignity and principles. He may well have made his mind up that elements of his coaching staff are not performing to the expectations of his total philosophy. However I believe that he will stand by each and everyone of his coaches for the entire season (reagardless of whether they are totally underachieving). At the end of the season he will stand with all of them when the Rooney family makes a decision about Tomlins tenure ( and it will be a no brainer - he aint going nowhere)

Then when it comes time to evaluate the coaching staff I would imagine Coach Ligashesky would save Tomlin the heartache and fall on his own sword. His resume is looking worse for wear every game lately. I dont know about Arians - I think his relationship with Ben is a huge factor and it will keep him employed in black and gold.

Tomlin hired these guys, he will treat them with respect and keep them till the end of the season. He will see the 2009 plan through and evaluate it when all is said and done.

I can to some degree understand the anger that is vented by some members but the Steeler dont fire staff midseason for underachieving - that is what the offseason is for.

Today was a team loss, just like it is whenever a loss is recorded. Still forever Proud to be a steeler fan, just a bit disappointed about the last few losses.

The_WARDen
11-23-2009, 07:57 AM
for once, even the cheerleaders will have to at least somewhat acknowledge that the coaches might have had at least a tiny tiny tiny bit to do with that debacle.

Especially, since Tomlin took the blame himself.

dcsteel5804
11-23-2009, 08:44 AM
Whats up Steeler fans
Now I don't really post too often, and it if anyone reads through this thread, you can probably tell why. I think that the person who created this thread has some valid points, and as a Steelers fan, he has every right to worry about whats going on. To discredit any concern and make sarcastic statements like, "The sky is falling", and "the coaches don't run the plays", and so forth are just ridiculous and its the same people every week. I understand when we win and people complain, but we're not winning, we're losing, so I think complain in merited in this case.

About Football
Last week in Cincy, I think it was 3 - 4 trips inside the 20, and we only come away with field goals. That's not winning football. Even if we score a touchdown on only one of those drives, we win the game. This week its much of the same. We have an opportunity to put the game away, and a couple of picks set up the Chiefs with great field position. Special Team.... I don't even have to say anything, 4 returns in 5 weeks, that's just horrible. Its not acceptable. I think if you take away the returns, we win each game in which we gave up that return. I don't think that you can just blame the players or the coaches, but a combination of both. The encouraging thing about these losses however are that we're definitely not being dominated, we pretty much giving the games away. It seems like we're some good special teams play and some converted red-zone opportunities away from blowing people out. But they are problems that need to be fixed. Hopefully anyone how replies to this comment and either respectfully agree or disagree with the football points I made, with out using 3rd grade sarcasm. If you disagree, fine, just state why and move on. Last I checked this is a democracy.

WH
11-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Tomlin is no more of a coach than a figure head mARIANSette.

HometownGal
11-23-2009, 10:09 AM
for once, even the cheerleaders will have to at least somewhat acknowledge that the coaches might have had at least a tiny tiny tiny bit to do with that debacle.

Especially, since Tomlin took the blame himself.

Nothing at all wrong with being a "cheerleader", maintaining a positive outlook and not throwing the team I love under the bus. Sure beats being a FWF and a boo-bird (not referring to YOU directly). My blood pressure and heart thank me. :thumbsup:

fansince'76
11-23-2009, 10:16 AM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb136/garyb12001/M03.gif

The_WARDen
11-23-2009, 10:28 AM
I just read the first page, page and a half... and this thread is absolutely hilarious!

I swear the first thing out of people's mouth when we lose is "We throw the ball too much" as if running the ball is going to help.

Jeez..did any of you actually live through the 90's and early 2000's sober? Don't you remember those games we lost to much lesser teams because we couldn't get our run game on track?

Today was the fault of ST's for allowing a TD.

It was the fault of our defense for not being able to clamp down.

It was the fault of our offense for not being able to score TD's.

Those are all plays that were left ON THE FIELD. They were the right plays called, and execution sucked.

Then, there were blown coaching decisions. Punting in OT instead of going for the field goal? Or throwing a pass? Or allowing Mendy to keep running for 2 yards, 1 yard 2 yards yards, 0 yards, when WIllie today was running for 3, 5, 9 yards a pop. (mendy ran well in OT, which is where his 3.+ average came up). Heck, with running that erratic today, I think they should have thrown MORE.. which leads to the other problem....

INJURIES.

We had one guy on the line out, two or three guys out on D, then on the final drive, our starting QB had to take a seat as well.

_____________

So let's bring this a bit into perspective instead of extroverting emotion everywhere.

1. Our players didn't execute as well as they should have.
2. Our coaches blew some decisions
3. Some of our key players were injured.

Sorry if that doesn't help scapegoat a single player OR bode well for a quick fix like "RUN THE BALL MORE"

Sorry, even the players are agreeing that coaching just might have something to do with it (just a little)...

"The coaches have to put us in a better position," said Hines Ward, as tenured a Steelers player as you can find and a man who had just wasted a 10-catch, 128-yard performance. "All of us have to look in the mirror, but we're all in this together; the coaches have to evaluate themselves as much was we do."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09327/1015677-150.stm

fansince'76
11-23-2009, 11:10 AM
Sorry, even the players are agreeing that coaching just might have something to do with it (just a little)...

"The coaches have to put us in a better position," said Hines Ward, as tenured a Steelers player as you can find and a man who had just wasted a 10-catch, 128-yard performance. "All of us have to look in the mirror, but we're all in this together; the coaches have to evaluate themselves as much was we do."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09327/1015677-150.stm

Did you read the entire article?

"I guess we thought we could catch them in something," Ward said. "I cracked down on the end, but it didn't work. If you run something else and it doesn't work, maybe it's fourth-and-1 and you give us a chance. But when you lose 3 yards, you have no choice but to punt. The play call is what it is; we have to execute it."

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 11:19 AM
Did you read the entire article?


What are you talking about? Did you read the whole thing? That's Ward saying further that the play was really a stupid move at that point. He only backed up his point that the coaches need to put the players in better position to secede. Ultimately it is the players that need to execute the play, but if you call a play that sets them up to fail, what can they do?

HometownGal
11-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Ultimately it is the players that need to execute the play, but if you call a play that sets them up to fail, what can they do?

Do you think these players don't practice these plays over and over and over again? :banging: BA (or Batch as rumor has it) called what he did because he felt it would work against the scheme of the KC D at the time. It didn't work, obviously - time to let it go. As someone else noted in another thread - if that play had worked, it would have been considered Mensa-like. :doh:

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 11:41 AM
Do you think these players don't practice these plays over and over and over again? :banging: BA (or Batch as rumor has it) called what he did because he felt it would work against the scheme of the KC D at the time. It didn't work, obviously - time to let it go. As someone else noted in another thread - if that play had worked, it would have been considered Mensa-like. :doh:

With that thinking why not run a hail mary or some other deep route and go for the TD? heck if it worked it would have been considered Mensa-like. I'm sure the players practice that all the time right? After all we run deep pass routes on every series, we must be good at it. :doh:

O Sensei
11-23-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't know if batch called that or not, but it was questionable at best and you are right...had it worked it would have been great, still a shitty call...just one they got away with. Would have rather seen mendenhall with a lead blocker and a play action toss to ward or miller. With the offense they have today that would have had a better chance to succeed IMO. But, players play, coaches coach and I am neither for the Steelers...it is what it is, call it a learning experience albeit a painful one. Still a good chance to turn this around and get in the postseason where anything....and everything....can happen.

:tt02:

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-23-2009, 11:51 AM
MY steelers are still in playoff contention. When they are not...I will go into full draft-geek giddy mode. I hate the losses as much as the next guy, but also understand that to think that we are not ever going to have a bad season is pretty useless.

As I stated in another thread...I put the blame on:

1) Lack of discipline: regularly on special team assignments and often on the front line.
2) Injuries: Reardless of how good our defense is, it is VERY hard to game plan against a team when you are minus Troy & Aaron.
3) FO failure to put the correct emphasis on the importance of special teams. Traditionally we have failed to fully appreciate the contributions of players like Sean Morey..Chidi Iwuoma ...and Anthony Madison.

Even if this season goes straight down the toilet...I will just look forward to the draft and the possibility of another Lombardi in 2011.:noidea:

Not drinking the Kool-aid...Not being a hater...just being a mature "super-fan" who puts losses and wins into the right perspective.

Kvnfaber
11-23-2009, 11:53 AM
In a loss like this, everyone deserves blame.

But in this one, we dominated:

-Total Yards: 515-282 (passing 401-214, rushing 114-68)
-First Downs: 27-13
-Time of Poss: 44:07-22:25

Clearly, its not a coaching loss, this one should have been put away.

The coaches kept doing what was working, and we should have scored several more times than we did. It all came down to finishing drives (remember last week?) and we turned it over 3 times on drives that were going strong and had all indications of finishing with a score.

We need to learn how to seal off games, and fast.

This.

O Sensei
11-23-2009, 11:58 AM
I'll say this and then I'll drop it....I do not think they utilize mendenhall enough, I've played and coached this game for a long time...well, as long as tomlin, not as long as Arians....definately not pros but anyway...the game is the game ultimately. If ever there was a back that looks at though he is about to break out, it is this kid mendenhall and I know this is bruce's offense and it's pretty much the same one he's been running for 20 some odd years, but I'd love to see him with the experience he has now, the confidance he has now, with a more conventional two back set, just to see how he'd do. Obviously you aren't adding another blocker...but he runs well behind a lead and he's a basically a one cut, terrell davis sort of guy. Just once...with a lead, I'd like to see them give it a real commitment and see what happens, better than throwing another INT or taking another sack.

O Sensei
11-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Love the Avatar Lamberts.....great pic

O Sensei
11-23-2009, 12:12 PM
MY steelers are still in playoff contention. When they are not...I will go into full draft-geek giddy mode. I hate the losses as much as the next guy, but also understand that to think that we are not ever going to have a bad season is pretty useless.

As I stated in another thread...I put the blame on:

1) Lack of discipline: regularly on special team assignments and often on the front line.
2) Injuries: Reardless of how good our defense is, it is VERY hard to game plan against a team when you are minus Troy & Aaron.
3) FO failure to put the correct emphasis on the importance of special teams. Traditionally we have failed to fully appreciate the contributions of players like Sean Morey..Chidi Iwuoma ...and Anthony Madison.

Even if this season goes straight down the toilet...I will just look forward to the draft and the possibility of another Lombardi in 2011.:noidea:

Not drinking the Kool-aid...Not being a hater...just being a mature "super-fan" who puts losses and wins into the right perspective.


I agree and I definately do not feel they are out of it, XL should be a lasting lesson on that regard, I refuse however to chalk the failures up to ST and an injured TP/AS. This team has far too much talent to be playing as poorly as they are and I don't think it makes me or anyone else a bandwagoner or fairweather fan...whatever....if we're a bit pissed off...they should be better simple as that, you know it, I know it, even the "experts" on tv who know what they are TOLD to know know it. I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion regarding ST focus however....anthony madison may have very well made a difference on this team and I see a whole lot of lack of effort out there on KO and KO return. Dicipline and focus and determination, i think the HC has it in spades...the team however is lacking.

fansince'76
11-23-2009, 12:16 PM
What are you talking about? Did you read the whole thing? That's Ward saying further that the play was really a stupid move at that point. He only backed up his point that the coaches need to put the players in better position to secede. Ultimately it is the players that need to execute the play, but if you call a play that sets them up to fail, what can they do?

I saw where he also stated that they, the players, have to execute it.

Jmat
11-23-2009, 12:23 PM
Mike Tomlin and Dick LeBeau and The Steelers defense.

Even with our putrid ST's and the turnovers by the offense the Steelers had a 10 point lead again and again the defense blew that. We had a 7 point lead with 6 or so minutes left to play and the defense didn't come close to stopping the Chiefs who marched down the field in 4 plays for the TD.

This Steeler defense is WAY overrated. They are Incapable of producing turnovers if Troy isn't there or making the big stop at the right time and they are terrible on third down just about all the time.

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by BradfordTheGreat View Post
In a loss like this, everyone deserves blame.

But in this one, we dominated:

-Total Yards: 515-282 (passing 401-214, rushing 114-68)
-First Downs: 27-13
-Time of Poss: 44:07-22:25

Clearly, its not a coaching loss, this one should have been put away.

The coaches kept doing what was working, and we should have scored several more times than we did. It all came down to finishing drives (remember last week?) and we turned it over 3 times on drives that were going strong and had all indications of finishing with a score.

We need to learn how to seal off games, and fast.

This.


Well if it's not a coaching loss then the players we have aren't good enough to beat the Chiefs, much less the Bengals.

Using this logic there isn't really anything the coaches can do with the players we have. Therefore we need to find new players I guess. :banging:


When you rack up 500 yards of offense and only score 24 points then the coaches really screwed something up. Try driving a car 100 mph through city streets. You might pass a few cars, but you will eventually wreck. That is our offense right now. Arians needs to slow things down, too many mistakes are happening on offense.

WH
11-23-2009, 12:24 PM
What are you talking about? Did you read the whole thing? That's Ward saying further that the play was really a stupid move at that point. He only backed up his point that the coaches need to put the players in better position to secede. Ultimately it is the players that need to execute the play, but if you call a play that sets them up to fail, what can they do? Have a Manningesque QB that has the smarts to change it when he reads the defense?

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-23-2009, 01:07 PM
This Steeler defense is WAY overrated. They are Incapable of producing turnovers if Troy isn't there or making the big stop at the right time and they are terrible on third down just about all the time.

Really...so we are the #1 ranked defense...because of the 5 games that Troy has played?? And we are incapable of making the "big stop" without Troy...yet the defense came through with three straight sacks on Detroit's final drive???

Try again. We NEED Troy. Hell, he is the best player in the NFL . Who WOULDNT need him??? But broad statements like that are silly.

Originally Posted by wineshard
Have a Manningesque QB that has the smarts to change it when he reads the defense?

Ben has struggled the last two games, but he is a franchise QB. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves and ATTEMPTING to fool others.

Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard
When you rack up 500 yards of offense and only score 24 points then the coaches really screwed something up. Try driving a car 100 mph through city streets. You might pass a few cars, but you will eventually wreck. That is our offense right now. Arians needs to slow things down, too many mistakes are happening on offense

First thread blames the defense

Second thread blames the QB

Third thread blames the Coaches

Why dont you all huddle up so that you can come to a consensus and come back with who really "sucks".

Texasteel
11-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Why dont you all huddle up so that you can come to a consensus and come back with who really "sucks".

No problem LLT. I know who sucks.

The_WARDen
11-23-2009, 01:14 PM
Did you read the entire article?

yep...it's Ward questioning the coaching even further. My point was that even the players are questioning the coaching to a degree...so it's not ALL about executing.

Of course, that's part of it...but so is the coaching which is contrary to belief to some.

madtowndrunkard
11-23-2009, 01:15 PM
Really...so we are the #1 ranked defense...because of the 5 games that Troy has played?? And we are incapable of making the "big stop" without Troy...yet the defense came through with three straight sacks on Detroit's final drive???

Try again. We NEED Troy. Hell, he is the best player in the NFL . Who WOULDNT need him??? But broad statements like that are silly.



Ben has struggled the last two games, but he is a franchise QB. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves and ATTEMPTING to fool others.



First thread blames the defense

Second thread blames the QB

Third thread blames the Coaches

Why dont you all huddle up so that you can come to a consensus and come back with who really "sucks".


WTF are you talking about? I've been pretty consistent w/ my opinion. I've never once blamed the defense for any of our issues. I've been saying this for weeks now...Arians play calling and our ST's are killing us.

Why don't you huddle up with an English teacher so you can learn to comprehend what you read.

lamberts-lost-tooth
11-23-2009, 01:51 PM
WTF are you talking about? I've been pretty consistent w/ my opinion. I've never once blamed the defense for any of our issues. I've been saying this for weeks now...Arians play calling and our ST's are killing us.

Why don't you huddle up with an English teacher so you can learn to comprehend what you read.

Funny that you couldnt comprehend the post...yet think that it was someone else having that very problem.

I said:

First thread blames the defense

Second thread blames the QB

Third thread blames the Coaches

Why dont you all huddle up so that you can come to a consensus and come back with who really "sucks".

Now...try and follow along.

1st post was by jmat...(he blamed the defense)

2nd post was by wineshard...(he blamed the QB)

3rd post was by YOU...(who blamed the Coaches)

I never said you blamed anyone else.



I'll be sending that English teacher your way. (If the point of the post still escapes you.... phone a friend.:wave:)

tony hipchest
11-23-2009, 03:01 PM
i blame Feed Robot. this season has gone downhill since he joined and started posting.

:noidea:

Idaho Steel
11-23-2009, 03:10 PM
This is a crazy thread. Everyone is going nuts. The fact is that we have a cake schedule for the rest of the season, The Bungles will probably have 2 -3 more losses and we will either win the division or be the wild card. This was a classic trap game. It looked like the players were a little over-confident and under motivated. It happens. I think this could be a very motivating loss that will be the fire igniting a run to the Superbowl. I do however agree that something has to drastically change on ST. When 1/3 of all kick returns for TD's in the league are against one team (Our beloved Steelers) there is an issue there that needs to be addressed immediately. I think it is time for the band-aid. Put some starters in and get it rolling. If not for Special Teams we would have one loss. That would be to Cincinnati, which sucks, but nonetheless we would be in the driver's seat.

Steelers>NFL
11-23-2009, 03:39 PM
I'm glad someone started this thread. Because I have played ball, maybe not NFL, but I have played and watched enough to know the game. And even knowing and playing, the end all be all is common sense when it comes to anything. Football, life, etc. Tomlin's coaching is extremely irritating. The common sense factor is lost. Why OH BLEEPIN why are they giving Mendenhall 15 rushes a game when the son of a gun is getting 4 and 5 yards a carry. Why do you run a Sweep with the slowest running back we have. I didnt mind the sweep, but how bout giving it to the fastest and strongest guy you have who has been slicing the other team all day. And why the BLEEP do they always pick plays and lose 50 yards on 3rd downs. These are all coaching problems. The coaches job is to put the best situation on the field for their players. Instead, they go shot gun on 3rd and 2 and run a 3 step drop all freakin game and get it batted down or sacked.

Special team gaffs are execution issues. I dont blame that on coaching all the way. It has something to do with it, but execution is key there. And the players aren't doing it. The other thing that is killing this team is dropped INTs. Dropped INTs have cost the steelers the last two games. Pure and Simple.

If Big Ben wants a career that last longer then 8 seasons, he is either going to have to learn to throw the damn ball away or throw the ball quicker. Yah, its great when Ben improvs, but he is human and he will not last 10 years if he keeps waiting 15 seconds to throw the ball. What kills me with this is he wouldnt have to. Mendenhall is a 1600 runner. Be a run team and play off it damn it.
I love the way he improvise. But too much is too much. Throw the GD ball away.
Quit standing there like the statue of liberty. Learn and play 3-5 step drops and release the ball. Save the running around stuff for when you really need it. Not on every 2 or 3 plays.
The rate he is going, he will not last another 2 season.

WH
11-23-2009, 03:48 PM
2nd post was by wineshard...(he blamed the QB)



WHOA hold your horses, I didn't blame the QB for the loss. I blamed Ben for not being able to change plays at the LOS.

Get your mind right, sir.

rich4eagle
11-23-2009, 04:41 PM
Tomlin is head coach!

YEP HE IS RESPONSIBLE

Tomlin is tolerating this crap special teams play.

Yep and so it the board...........more than once Reed was called out for being IRRELEVENT ON KICK OFFS............

Tomlin is tolerating this crap PASS, PASS, PASS Arians offense that doesn't work.

Not the problem.........Offense is not the problem...........PASSING IS NOT THE PROBLEm.....DISAGREE !))%
Tomlin is tolerating the poor execution!

Yep and WORSE HE IS EXHIBITING POOR GAME TIME EXECUTION WITH PLAY CALLING AT END GAME>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOING INTO A SHELL NOW THREE LOSSES

Tomlin is to BLAME!

YEP

It's been a long time since I've been this disgusted with a Steelers team.

From the SuperBowl to this. Unbelievable.

NOT me loving the Steelers but now having serious concerns about Tomlin:tt::tt::tt::tt::tt::tt:

OX1947
11-23-2009, 05:30 PM
yep...it's Ward questioning the coaching even further. My point was that even the players are questioning the coaching to a degree...so it's not ALL about executing.

Of course, that's part of it...but so is the coaching which is contrary to belief to some.

Look guys, everyone always wants to blame someone for something. Especially in sports. I am not in that category all the time. Because I believe that most time THE OTHER team plays hard too and out duels you. And I believe that is the case most of the time.

The number one job of a coach is putting his players in the best position to win. Now, looking at the last 4 loses, all where the Steelers had control of the game late, the coach continues to put his players in crap situations. Common sense says so, not anyone or anything. If there is one thing that has driven me crazy, is the stupid calls on 3rd down in red zone or scoring areas. Ben keeps taking sacks that lose 15 yards or whatever. Those are not only burners in the fact that you lose out of the TD, but momentum is killed. Football is an emotional game. Sacks are huge motivation of positivity to a team. And the coaches continue to put their players in those positions. Mewelde Moore on that sweep was the final straw for me with Tomlin. I do not know what Tomlin's hard on is with this guy, but if you are going to run a sweep, dont you think it would be better to give it to the running back who has 135 yards total offense and a TD the whole game? And it's not a one time deal either, he keeps doing it. Run the damn ball when you are up, Cowher did it for 15 years and was the best close out coach in the history of football. Its the steelers identity, its who they are, way are you going in shotgun on 2nd and 2 every other series? I just do not understand it.

Christian Snyder
11-23-2009, 06:02 PM
i blame Feed Robot. this season has gone downhill since he joined and started posting.

:noidea:
Ban him!!!!:wink02:

Preacher
11-23-2009, 06:22 PM
Sorry, even the players are agreeing that coaching just might have something to do with it (just a little)...



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09327/1015677-150.stm
Lets read my post again shall we? This way, you can see your mistakes.


Then, there were blown coaching decisions. Punting in OT instead of going for the field goal? Or throwing a pass? Or allowing Mendy to keep running for 2 yards, 1 yard 2 yards yards, 0 yards, when WIllie today was running for 3, 5, 9 yards a pop. (mendy ran well in OT, which is where his 3.+ average came up). Heck, with running that erratic today, I think they should have thrown MORE.. which leads to the other problem....

and


So let's bring this a bit into perspective instead of extroverting emotion everywhere.

1. Our players didn't execute as well as they should have.
2. Our coaches blew some decisions
3. Some of our key players were injured.

Sorry if that doesn't help scapegoat a single player OR bode well for a quick fix like "RUN THE BALL MORE"

Now how in the WORLD do you think your post Sorry, even the players are agreeing that coaching just might have something to do with it (just a little)...

Makes ANY sense?

Was I not blaming the coaching staff? Did I not say they were at fault, just like others are at fault? Matter of fact, that little quote you posted, in context, backs up EXACTLY what I was saying.

The entire TEAM was at fault, the coaches, the players, etc.

-----on second thought, I gotta think maybe you quoted me by accident. Because in the context of my post, your response just makes no sense what so ever.