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klick81
11-24-2009, 02:42 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09327/1015677-66.stm

"The coaches have to put us in a better position," said Hines Ward, as tenured a Steelers player as you can find and a man who had just wasted a 10-catch, 128-yard performance. "All of us have to look in the mirror, but we're all in this together; the coaches have to evaluate themselves as much was we do."

Had he posted this here, would he be labeled as a badwagoner or a "sky is falling" fan?

fansince'76
11-24-2009, 02:45 PM
"All of us have to look in the mirror..."

....we're all in this together....

Ah, but notice he doesn't pin ALL the blame on the coaching staff (or one coach in particular), while absolving himself or his teammates?

The_WARDen
11-24-2009, 02:49 PM
It's ALL about execution! I truly believe that some of the players should be executed!

Steelman16
11-24-2009, 02:49 PM
This is going to be taken out of context, and already has.

Ward was simply pointing out that ALL personnel involved in the organization have to reevaluate themselves and refocus and redirect. That's all.

fansince'76
11-24-2009, 02:51 PM
It's ALL about execution! I truly believe that some of the players should be executed!

John McKay? Is that you? :chuckle:

revefsreleets
11-24-2009, 02:57 PM
No, no, no...you guys clearly are taking this quote completely out of context. This:
"The coaches have to put us in a better position," said Hines Ward, as tenured a Steelers player as you can find and a man who had just wasted a 10-catch, 128-yard performance. "All of us have to look in the mirror, but we're all in this together; the coaches have to evaluate themselves as much was we do."

CLEARLY means: "This is all Bruce Arians fault!"

The_WARDen
11-24-2009, 03:21 PM
John McKay? Is that you? :chuckle:

The special teams' play does remind me of the 70's Buccaneers.

MACH1
11-24-2009, 03:24 PM
My personal fav is five wide, empty backfield in the redzone on 3rd n 1. At least pretend it might be a run play, its not like Mendy was having a good game or anything. He was only averaging 3.8 per carry.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-24-2009, 03:55 PM
It's ALL about execution!!

So true. It clearly looks like Ward is blaming the coaches for his lack of execution. Oh, wait.....Ward had a good game.:doh:

Then, it looks like he is blaming the coaches for the play selection. Oh, wait......Ben can apparently audible or go no huddle whenever he wants. :doh:

Then he must be saying that its not a problem with coaching, because we all know and trust the coaches to coach....but the players just dont execute, which results in losing. Yeah, that must be it.:rolleyes:

revefsreleets
11-24-2009, 04:04 PM
So, for all the people who clearly know more than the rest of us about football, what exactly WAS Ward criticizing, since we're too stupid to understand, and some of you are clearly much more intelligent than us?

He couldn't be talking about the horrific defensive break-downs, I'm sure, that allowed multiple plays of 20+ yards to occur at KEY times. Nor could he be talking about the special teams which basically spotted the Chiefs 7 points. I'm SURE he could ONLY be talking about Arians, but, then again, I am but a humble and ignorant fan, lacking any semblance of knowledge of football, and must throw myself on the mercy of those true professional football geniuses who post here.

I'm also confused. I know I'm not that knowledgeable about football, but is Ben now NOT allowed to audible at the LOS if he sees something he doesn't like? So he's allowed to have some input, but ONLY in the no-huddle, and he's not allowed to request the no-huddle if he thinks it might help?

As I said before, I knew we were in trouble when Arians ran out and tipped Millers pass out of his hands, resulting in an INT. Or when Arians hit Ben as he was passing resulting in another. Arians also had it in for us calling all those penalties. The worst was Arians playing defense and allowing all those big plays. Damn you, Bruce Arians, damn you!

AllD
11-24-2009, 04:10 PM
We failed to execute on third down. We failed to execute in the red zone. We failed to cover on long passes. But we made up for it by not tackling on STs.

Edman
11-24-2009, 04:40 PM
It about time someone spoke up. This is getting ridiculous.

You're the freaking champs. Even if you don't win it all again, at least try to. Go down like a champ instead of bowing out by Week 12.

steelreserve
11-24-2009, 04:45 PM
No, no, no...you guys clearly are taking this quote completely out of context. This:
"The coaches have to put us in a better position," said Hines Ward, as tenured a Steelers player as you can find and a man who had just wasted a 10-catch, 128-yard performance. "All of us have to look in the mirror, but we're all in this together; the coaches have to evaluate themselves as much was we do."

CLEARLY means: "This is all Bruce Arians fault!"

No, it was pretty obvious to me that he meant: "Parker SUCKS."

LVSteelersfan
11-24-2009, 05:16 PM
No, it was pretty obvious to me that he meant: "Parker SUCKS."

You got it. If Mendenhall would have run those plays they gave to Willie, we would have scored at least 3 more tds. It's Willie's fault.

SteelCityMom
11-24-2009, 05:33 PM
So, for all the people who clearly know more than the rest of us about football, what exactly WAS Ward criticizing, since we're too stupid to understand, and some of you are clearly much more intelligent than us?

He couldn't be talking about the horrific defensive break-downs, I'm sure, that allowed multiple plays of 20+ yards to occur at KEY times. Nor could he be talking about the special teams which basically spotted the Chiefs 7 points. I'm SURE he could ONLY be talking about Arians, but, then again, I am but a humble and ignorant fan, lacking any semblance of knowledge of football, and must throw myself on the mercy of those true professional football geniuses who post here.

I'm also confused. I know I'm not that knowledgeable about football, but is Ben now NOT allowed to audible at the LOS if he sees something he doesn't like? So he's allowed to have some input, but ONLY in the no-huddle, and he's not allowed to request the no-huddle if he thinks it might help?

As I said before, I knew we were in trouble when Arians ran out and tipped Millers pass out of his hands, resulting in an INT. Or when Arians hit Ben as he was passing resulting in another. Arians also had it in for us calling all those penalties. The worst was Arians playing defense and allowing all those big plays. Damn you, Bruce Arians, damn you!

Well Rev....it's obvious as hell! Ward is CLEARLY criticizing bu bu bu Bush. It's all his fault, naturally. :chuckle:

Psyychoward86
11-24-2009, 05:34 PM
So, for all the people who clearly know more than the rest of us about football, what exactly WAS Ward criticizing, since we're too stupid to understand, and some of you are clearly much more intelligent than us?

He couldn't be talking about the horrific defensive break-downs, I'm sure, that allowed multiple plays of 20+ yards to occur at KEY times. Nor could he be talking about the special teams which basically spotted the Chiefs 7 points. I'm SURE he could ONLY be talking about Arians, but, then again, I am but a humble and ignorant fan, lacking any semblance of knowledge of football, and must throw myself on the mercy of those true professional football geniuses who post here.

I'm also confused. I know I'm not that knowledgeable about football, but is Ben now NOT allowed to audible at the LOS if he sees something he doesn't like? So he's allowed to have some input, but ONLY in the no-huddle, and he's not allowed to request the no-huddle if he thinks it might help?

As I said before, I knew we were in trouble when Arians ran out and tipped Millers pass out of his hands, resulting in an INT. Or when Arians hit Ben as he was passing resulting in another. Arians also had it in for us calling all those penalties. The worst was Arians playing defense and allowing all those big plays. Damn you, Bruce Arians, damn you!

:chuckle:

SteelCityMom
11-24-2009, 05:37 PM
I have a strange feeling that this was just a small snippet of what Ward said when interviewed. I also don't see it as him calling out any one coach or player...I see it as him calling out EVERYBODY and saying we all have to pull together and really evaluate our own performances up to this point and fix what needs to be fixed.

StainlessStill
11-24-2009, 05:43 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09327/1015677-66.stm



Had he posted this here, would he be labeled as a badwagoner or a "sky is falling" fan?

I don't understand what your logic is that if someone posts some displeasure on the coaching staff then that marks them a "bandwagoner"?

It is perfectly clear to me that the Steelers are in the middle of some game planning issues, and Arians simply doesn't put his players in much of a rhythm to go out there and win football games late. We simply aren't executing simple plays and these simple plays, like 3rd and 2, are putting our whole game plan, both offensively and defensively against the grind, esp against the clock. We have no sense of clock control and this is keeping teams like the Chiefs in the game to give them a shot to pull out a win. Hines is right, EVERYONE must look at themselves in the mirror if they want to turn this around, starting with the coaches.

It simply is what it is.

AllD
11-24-2009, 06:23 PM
He is pissed off because he is putting up career numbers and mostly everybody else from top to bottom is bungling one of his last great seasons.

He knows how hard it is to win the championship, what it takes, and how sweet it is. The team had everything going for it including depth on the bench and a weak schedule. All we would have to do is win our last four games and repeat as champions.

Right now we can't buy a win on the last 40 years' reputation.

HometownGal
11-24-2009, 07:10 PM
So, for all the people who clearly know more than the rest of us about football, what exactly WAS Ward criticizing, since we're too stupid to understand, and some of you are clearly much more intelligent than us?

He couldn't be talking about the horrific defensive break-downs, I'm sure, that allowed multiple plays of 20+ yards to occur at KEY times. Nor could he be talking about the special teams which basically spotted the Chiefs 7 points. I'm SURE he could ONLY be talking about Arians, but, then again, I am but a humble and ignorant fan, lacking any semblance of knowledge of football, and must throw myself on the mercy of those true professional football geniuses who post here.

I'm also confused. I know I'm not that knowledgeable about football, but is Ben now NOT allowed to audible at the LOS if he sees something he doesn't like? So he's allowed to have some input, but ONLY in the no-huddle, and he's not allowed to request the no-huddle if he thinks it might help?

As I said before, I knew we were in trouble when Arians ran out and tipped Millers pass out of his hands, resulting in an INT. Or when Arians hit Ben as he was passing resulting in another. Arians also had it in for us calling all those penalties. The worst was Arians playing defense and allowing all those big plays. Damn you, Bruce Arians, damn you!

:toofunny::rofl::toofunny::applaudit::thumbsup:

Whatsa matta for you? You forgot about Bruce Arians bumbling about out there, missing all of those tackles when he was playing ST's and giving KC a TD 16 secs into the game. :banging::chuckle: There is a bright spot, though. Thank God he didn't throw another temper tantrum in the KC game and punch an opponent in the head again. :thumbsup: :chuckle:

I don't take Hines' statement (the part the media conveniently put out there) as him calling out the coaches directly. I take it as him including the coaches in the downslide the team has been in for the last couple of weeks and I don't totally disagree with him.

It is perfectly clear to me that the Steelers are in the middle of some game planning issues, and Arians simply doesn't put his players in much of a rhythm to go out there and win football games late.

The Steelers had a 17-7 halftime lead. Early in the 3Q after a Ben pick, the Steelers D allowed the Chiefs back into the game and gave them a huge momentum boost by allowing them to go 62 yards and into the EZ, reducing the Steelers lead to 17-14.Late in the 3rd, the Chiefs tied it up at 17 after another Ben pick. With a little over 8 minutes left in the 4Q, the Steelers again took the lead 24-17 and the Steelers D allowed the Chiefs O in the very next series to march 91 yards down the field in roughly 3-1/2 minutes to score the tying TD. In OT, the Steelers failed to score on their opening drive and again, the Steelers D allowed The Tainted One to go down the field at will in a minute and a half until they got to the Steelers 4 YL and kick the game winning FG. The Steelers O had not only one, but TWO leads which the D (and unfortunately, Ben's picks) squandered away. :banging::banging:

I realize that the injuries to both Troy and Aaron have disrupted the normally even flow of the D, but one of the Steelers strengths on D is that they have usually been able to overcome injuries and get that flow going again. With the depth the Steelers have on D, I just cannot believe that the injuries are the root of the problem. One or two players does not a defending championship D make.

ricardisimo
11-24-2009, 07:52 PM
Why are they going pass-happy with a 17-7 halftime lead? Is that execution?

steel-tex
11-24-2009, 08:16 PM
the steelers need to learn how to run the ball - this will open up the passing game. The steelers need to learn how to complete a screen pass - to a back - the steelers need to have a check down ( M&M )and use him besides to block the steelers need to have a fullback again and run the ball down the defences throat. we can't run out the clock like we used to - we are different now, pass more - if we could add a running game to this we would score more points. B.C. calls shit plays in the red zone - well i think he calls shit plays all the time - but anyway - we changed and it don't work. brady would kill us - manning would kill us - and hines is right - coaches need to look in the mirror ....

OX1947
11-24-2009, 08:22 PM
Why are they going pass-happy with a 17-7 halftime lead? Is that execution?

Thank you. I think this "who's fault is it", arm chair qb, banter back and forth is pointless. Lets make it simple. Why are the Steelers going 5 wide when they are up late in games? Just answer me that since fans don't know the game of football?

JEFF4i
11-24-2009, 09:00 PM
It's everyone's. Everyone has some blame to share. Even if it's one man's fault.

Your a team, that's the bottom line.

HometownGal
11-24-2009, 09:18 PM
Why are they going pass-happy with a 17-7 halftime lead? Is that execution?

Pittsburgh Steelers at 15:00

6-R.Succop kicks 71 yards from KC 30 to PIT -1. 11-S.Logan pushed ob at PIT 37 for 38 yards (34-T.Daniels).

1-10-PIT 37 (14:52) 34-R.Mendenhall right tackle to PIT 39 for 2 yards (96-A.Studebaker, 30-M.Brown).

2-8-PIT 39 (14:05) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 86-H.Ward to PIT 48 for 9 yards (47-J.McGraw, 30-M.Brown).

1-10-PIT 48 (13:21) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle intended for 83-H.Miller INTERCEPTED by 96-A.Studebaker at KC 36. 96-A.Studebaker to KC 38 for 2 yards (83-H.Miller).


Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:48

6-R.Succop kicks 70 yards from KC 30 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-PIT 20 (10:48) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 89-M.Spaeth to PIT 27 for 7 yards (53-D.Williams).

2-3-PIT 27 (10:14) 34-R.Mendenhall right tackle to PIT 29 for 2 yards (72-G.Dorsey).

3-1-PIT 29 (9:33) 34-R.Mendenhall left tackle to PIT 29 for no gain (91-T.Hali).

4-1-PIT 29 (8:59) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 40 yards to KC 31, Center-60-G.Warren, fair catch by 80-B.Wade.


Pittsburgh Steelers at 07:32

1-10-PIT 26 (7:32) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 40 for 14 yards (24-B.Flowers). PENALTY on PIT-83-H.Miller, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced between downs.

1-10-PIT 25 (7:01) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 37 for 12 yards (39-B.Carr).

1-10-PIT 37 (6:35) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to 10-S.Holmes.

2-10-PIT 37 (6:28) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 86-H.Ward to PIT 48 for 11 yards (47-J.McGraw).

1-10-PIT 48 (5:46) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 86-H.Ward to KC 33 for 19 yards (39-B.Carr).

****NOTE**** Obviously, pass happiness was working very well here.****

1-10-KC 33 (5:01) 39-W.Parker right end to KC 31 for 2 yards (96-A.Studebaker, 24-B.Flowers).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 04:16.

2-8-KC 31 (4:16) 39-W.Parker left end to KC 22 for 9 yards (95-R.Edwards). KC-95-R.Edwards was injured during the play.

1-10-KC 22 (3:39) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 34-R.Mendenhall. PENALTY on PIT-74-W.Colon, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at KC 22 - No Play.

1-20-KC 32 (3:32) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-S.Holmes to KC 20 for 12 yards (39-B.Carr).

2-8-KC 20 (2:48) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 83-H.Miller to KC 10 for 10 yards (96-A.Studebaker).

****NOTE**** "Pass happy offense" is still working here, UNTIL . . . . ****

1-10-KC 10 (2:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle intended for 86-H.Ward INTERCEPTED by 96-A.Studebaker at KC -2. 96-A.Studebaker to PIT 8 for 94 yards (34-R.Mendenhall).


Pittsburgh Steelers at 00:05

6-R.Succop kicks 60 yards from KC 30 to PIT 10. 11-S.Logan to PIT 27 for 17 yards (59-J.Belcher)
.
END QUARTER 3

4th Quarter

1-10-PIT 27 (15:00) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 47 for 20 yards (53-D.Williams).
1-10-PIT 47 (14:22) 39-W.Parker up the middle to 50 for 3 yards (30-M.Brown, 71-A.Magee).
2-7- (13:44) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left. PIT-78-M.Starks was injured during the play.
3-7- (13:36) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles up the middle to KC 46 for 4 yards (91-T.Hali, 56-D.Johnson).
4-3-KC 46 (13:03) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 33 yards to KC 13, Center-60-G.Warren, downed by PIT-27-J.Burnett.


Pittsburgh Steelers at 11:03

1-10-KC 27 (11:03) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-S.Holmes to KC 20 for 7 yards (39-B.Carr).

2-3-KC 20 (10:45) 34-R.Mendenhall right tackle to KC 18 for 2 yards (51-C.Mays, 94-T.Jackson).

3-1-KC 18 (10:04) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 9 for 9 yards (47-J.McGraw).

1-9-KC 9 (9:21) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 8 for 1 yard (72-G.Dorsey).

2-8-KC 8 (8:40) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 34-R.Mendenhall for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


****NOTE: Hmmmm - seems that pass happy O got a TD on a :gulp: - dare I say it? A PASS. ****

Pittsburgh Steelers at 04:54

6-R.Succop kicks 71 yards from KC 30 to PIT -1. 11-S.Logan to PIT 29 for 30 yards (10-T.Copper).

1-10-PIT 29 (4:45) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 83-H.Miller to PIT 36 for 7 yards (53-D.Williams).

2-3-PIT 36 (4:10) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 83-H.Miller to PIT 42 for 6 yards (53-D.Williams).

1-10-PIT 42 (3:29) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 45 for 3 yards (91-T.Hali).

2-7-PIT 45 (2:48) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 10-S.Holmes (94-T.Jackson).

3-7-PIT 45 (2:44) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 32 for -13 yards (30-M.Brown).

4-20-PIT 32 (2:27) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 42 yards to KC 26, Center-60-G.Warren, downed by PIT-55-P.Bailey.



Pittsburgh Steelers at 01:47

1-10-PIT 20 (1:47) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 16 for -4 yards (56-D.Johnson). PENALTY on KC-92-W.Gilberry, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 20 - No Play.

1-10-PIT 25 (1:35) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 86-H.Ward ran ob at PIT 38 for 13 yards (34-T.Daniels). KC-91-T.Hali was injured during the play. KC charged with a timeout for injury during final 2:00.

Timeout #2 by KC at 01:29.

1-10-PIT 38 (1:29) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 83-H.Miller to PIT 43 for 5 yards (24-B.Flowers).

2-5-PIT 43 (1:05) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 86-H.Ward.

3-5-PIT 43 (1:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 43 for 0 yards (71-A.Magee).

4-5-PIT 43 (:30) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 39 yards to KC 18, Center-60-G.Warren, fair catch by 80-B.Wade.


****NOTE - 1:43 left in the game with the score tied up at 24 and the Steelers O needed to go 80 yards to get to the EZ. ****

Overtime

Pittsburgh Steelers at 15:00

6-R.Succop kicks 70 yards from KC 30 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-PIT 20 (15:00) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 27 for 7 yards (96-A.Studebaker, 47-J.McGraw).

2-3-PIT 27 (14:21) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 86-H.Ward to PIT 44 for 17 yards (30-M.Brown).

1-10-PIT 44 (13:39) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 49 for 7 yards (59-J.Belcher).

2-3-KC 49 (12:53) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 50 for -1 yards (sack split by 56-D.Johnson and 96-A.Studebaker). PIT-7-B.Roethlisberger was injured during the play. PENALTY on PIT-62-J.Hartwig, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 50.

2-14-PIT 40 (12:21) (Shotgun) 16-C.Batch pass short middle to 10-S.Holmes to KC 43 for 17 yards (39-B.Carr).

1-10-KC 43 (11:35) 16-C.Batch pass incomplete short right to 34-R.Mendenhall [51-C.Mays].

2-10-KC 43 (11:30) 34-R.Mendenhall left end to KC 35 for 8 yards (91-T.Hali).

3-2-KC 35 (10:43) 21-M.Moore right end to KC 38 for -3 yards (59-J.Belcher).

4-5-KC 38 (10:07) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 38 yards to end zone, Center-60-G.Warren, Touchback.



As you can see from the play by play above, the Steelers O ran the ball 15 times in the 2nd half and OT, gaining more than 4 yards only FOUR TIMES. Though Ben threw the football 26 times in that same period, the only TD the Steelers scored in the 2nd half was via a short PASS to Mendy. All THREE Steelers TD's came via the PASS.

On the other side of the ball, however, the Chiefs O scored 20 points in the second half and OT in a time of possession frame of only 8:31. :jawdrop: As I've stated in several other threads - 24 points is more than enough to win in the NFL and against the Chiefs. The Steelers D once again melted down in the 2nd half, as they did in our 3 other losses thus far this season, and that ultimately was the back breaker.

ricardisimo
11-24-2009, 09:46 PM
I've already conceded on numerous occasions that Arians seems to be a very good Offensive Coordinator. He simply leaves much to be desired as a game manager and play caller.

Firstly, if 80% of your red zone plays are passes, it's likely that the TDs you score are going to be passes. That's not an argument in favor of the pass. I can just as easily (and with greater legitimacy) point out how many times we walk away from red zone trips with FGs and zeroes.

Secondly, going pass-happy accentuates the interceptions. You would call it poor execution, but I would call it planning for failure. Despite his two fumbles, I still say the numbers would support Mendenhall and Parker in the red zone.

shinoff2183
11-24-2009, 09:51 PM
****NOTE: Hmmmm - seems that pass happy O got a TD on a :gulp: - dare I say it? A PASS. ****





****NOTE - 1:43 left in the game with the score tied up at 24 and the Steelers O needed to go 80 yards to get to the EZ. ****




As you can see from the play by play above, the Steelers O ran the ball 15 times in the 2nd half and OT, gaining more than 4 yards only FOUR TIMES. Though Ben threw the football 26 times in that same period, the only TD the Steelers scored in the 2nd half was via a short PASS to Mendy. All THREE Steelers TD's came via the PASS.

On the other side of the ball, however, the Chiefs O scored 20 points in the second half and OT in a time of possession frame of only 8:31. :jawdrop: As I've stated in several other threads - 24 points is more than enough to win in the NFL and against the Chiefs. The Steelers D once again melted down in the 2nd half, as they did in our 3 other losses thus far this season, and that ultimately was the back breaker.


I gotta co sign this. I think the offense played a pretty good game, the d and st seemed to let this one go.

HometownGal
11-24-2009, 10:15 PM
I've already conceded on numerous occasions that Arians seems to be a very good Offensive Coordinator. He simply leaves much to be desired as a game manager and play caller.



We'll have to agree to disagree here. I feel BA is a very good OC all the way around. When the Steelers O is successful and they win, the man rarely ever gets credit but when the O sputters a bit and the D blows the game, he's the anti-Christ and the one who always gets the blame.

Firstly, if 80% of your red zone play are passes, it's likely that the TDs you score are going to be passes. That's not an argument in favor of the pass. I can just as easily (and with greater legitimacy) point out how many times we walk away from red zone trips with FGs and zeroes.



The Steelers were very successful with the pass not only in the KC game, but in other games this season as well. The passing game showcases Ben's many talents and his strengths as a passer. As BA allows Ben to audible at will and/or go to the no-huddle pretty much at his own discretion, it showcases Ben's improvising skills as well as his leadership abilities. Just as we didn't draft Mendy to sit his ass cheeks on the bench, we didn't draft Ben to be a hand-off specialist. Other than Ben throwing a couple of ill-fated picks, the Steelers O (with their pass happy attack) have put a lot of points on the board this season, even though they have left quite a few on the field. Nonetheless, my point is that other than the Bungles debacle, the Steelers O has given the team leads quite a few times this season, only to see them squandered away by the lacksadaisical play in the 2nd half by our D - particularly our secondary.

Secondly, going pass-happy accentuates the interceptions. You would call it poor execution, but I would call it planning for failure. Despite his two fumbles, I still say the numbers would support Mendenhall and Parker in the red zone.

Ben has thus far this season, been having a career year and our WR's, particularly Ward, Wallace and Miller, have pretty stellar numbers at their respective positions.

The Cheats*, Colts, Cards and Saints, to name a few, are pretty much pass-happy offenses and their QB's are usually at the bottom of the heap when it comes to interceptions almost every season. Go figure. :noidea:

theplatypus
11-24-2009, 10:23 PM
Didn't Burress make similar comments about Cowher many moons ago?

fansince'76
11-24-2009, 10:26 PM
Didn't Burress make similar comments about Cowher many moons ago?

You mean his selfish "I ain't gettin' enough touches, I'm outta here, they ain't gonna change and I ain't gonna change" whinefest in the locker room after dropping a sure TD pass in the 2004 AFCCG?

theplatypus
11-24-2009, 10:28 PM
You mean his selfish "I ain't gettin' enough touches, I'm outta here" whinefest in the locker room after dropping a sure TD pass in the 2004 AFCCG?


I honestly can't remember the details. Just a vague memory of him complaining about special teams play. It might not even have been him.

revefsreleets
11-24-2009, 10:32 PM
I'm sure when the run plays worked, Ben called them. When they failed, or weren't called, they failed or weren't called by Arians. Conversely, when we passed and the pass play failed, was incomplete, or was intercepted, those pass plays were called by Arians. The completed passes (but only completed passes that gained positive yards) were called by Ben.

This is, I'm sure, what Ward meant...

devilsdancefloor
11-24-2009, 10:32 PM
i have to agree with hines every man is gonna have to look at themselves in the mirror. They have all at times played like crap.

ricardisimo
11-24-2009, 10:52 PM
The Cheats*, Colts, Cards and Saints, to name a few, are pretty much pass-happy offenses and their QB's are usually at the bottom of the heap when it comes to interceptions almost every season. Go figure. :noidea:

Indy, New England and the Cards are in a special situation because of Manning, Brady and Warner, and the fact that something's been wrong with Addai and Maroney all season, pretty much... and does Arizona even have a running back? The top offense in the league, New Orleans, is passing the ball just under 50% of the time, with Dallas and the Giants (rounding out the top 6 with the Steelers) just over %50.

In other words, you can say that Mendenhall and Parker suck as badly as Addai, Maroney and Wells, and that's why the coaches are forced to go with their HoF QB. I would disagree with you. Unlike those teams, the Steelers coaches have a wealth of options, but simply choose to ignore them, and go with the pass.

Once again, though: I for one am not questioning Arians' ability to get the offense moving, so throwing these stats around is kind of missing the point. I just think he's a bad game manager (going pass happy with double-digit leads?) and not the greatest play-caller (5-wide in the red zone? Shuttle-pass on 3rd-and-2 immediately after Mendy gains of 7, 7 and 8?) In some ways I actually prefer Ben's play-calling in the no-huddle. From what I can tell, he mixes it up more than Arians, and the calls seem more organic, for lack of a better term.

devilsdancefloor
11-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Indy, New England and the Cards are in a special situation because of Manning, Brady and Warner, and the fact that something's been wrong with Addai and Maroney all season, pretty much... and does Arizona even have a running back? The top offense in the league, New Orleans, is passing the ball just under 50% of the time, with Dallas and the Giants (rounding out the top 6 with the Steelers) just over %50.

In other words, you can say that Mendenhall and Parker suck as badly as Addai, Maroney and Wells, and that's why the coaches are forced to go with their HoF QB. I would disagree with you. Unlike those teams, the Steelers coaches have a wealth of options, but simply choose to ignore them, and go with the pass.

Once again, though: I for one am not questioning Arians' ability to get the offense moving, so throwing these stats around is kind of missing the point. I just think he's a bad game manager (going pass happy with double-digit leads?) and not the greatest play-caller (5-wide in the red zone? Shuttle-pass on 3rd-and-2 immediately after Mendy gains of 7, 7 and 8?) In some ways I actually prefer Ben's play-calling in the no-huddle. From what I can tell, he mixes it up more than Arians, and the calls seem more organic, for lack of a better term.


i dont think you call a guy rushing for 5.1 YPC SUCK, wells is 4.7 ypc not bad either. Addai brings more to the table than just running plus he & donald brown have been banged up & i beleive maroney has as well. let me askl do you think Cedrick benson is have a great year? if you answer yes then he must really suck he is avg 4.2 ypc. i honestly do not know how any of you know when ben or arians is calling a play do they light up with a golden glow?

ricardisimo
11-24-2009, 11:24 PM
i honestly do not know how any of you know when ben or arians is calling a play do they light up with a golden glow?

A black-and-golden glow, yes. That, and no-huddle had better be Ben, or else the Steelers are breaking NFL rules regarding the use of Ben's headset.

My point with those RBs, whether they are hurt, under-utilized or just plain suck, is that those three offenses are more one-dimensional not so much by choice as by necessity, whereas the Steelers are by choice... Arians' choice.

HometownGal
11-24-2009, 11:43 PM
My point with those RBs, whether they are hurt, under-utilized or just plain suck, is that those three offenses are more one-dimensional not so much by choice as by necessity, whereas the Steelers are by choice... Arians' choice.

We have different takes on what a proficient offense entails and that's fine. I respect your opinion, though I disagree with most of it. :drink: We each have the possibility of being 50% wrong.

And my point, my dear Ricky Ricardo :wink: is that no matter what the offense has done (or hasn't done in your opinion), the STEELERS DEFENSE (mainly the secondary) failed to hold a lead in all 4 of our losses and almost gave away the Lions game too and with the exception of the Shitsinnati game, put more than enough points on the board to win those games. :banging: :banging:

ricardisimo
11-24-2009, 11:52 PM
We have different takes on what a proficient offense entails and that's fine.

No, we don't... Like I keep telling you, I think the offense is doing really well, which speaks well, in turn, of Arians' abilities as an OC. We agree 100% on the state of our offense.

StainlessStill
11-25-2009, 12:01 AM
No, we don't... Like I keep telling you, I think the offense is doing really well, which speaks well, in turn, of Arians' abilities as an OC. We agree 100% on the state of our offense.

Point blank is that Arians believes more in the pass rather than the run at this stage of the game, PERIOD. We are leaning more towards passing the ball a solid 20 more times a game and sometimes in certain situations and by the flow of the game, Arians completely abandons the run when it's efficient and decides to do this air it out attack that not only puts us in major 3rd down conversions, but also lack of chemistry as well and puts more pressure on our offense to perform. We leave too many plays on the field and we certainly don't work the clock with a lead (something Cowher worked to PERFECTION.)

The problem, in my opinion is, is that it seems that Arians feels we can beat teams with the intermediate passes and these plays take longer and longer to develop. If you look at systems like Indianapolis and New England, as soon as Brady or Manning's back foot hits the ground, the ball is released. Not so in our offense. Our offense is designed for the intermediate balls and if it isn't there we dump it off, and this is hurting Ben and the receivers rhythm.

tony hipchest
11-25-2009, 12:22 AM
the STEELERS DEFENSE (mainly the secondary) failed to hold a lead in all 4 of our losses and almost gave away the Lions game too and with the exception of the Shitsinnati game, put more than enough points on the board to win those games. :banging: :banging:

proof positive that troy polamalu is "head and shoulders" above all the rest....

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=39176&highlight=troy+polamalu

...figuratively and literally. one only needs to look at the miracle one handed interception last week vs. tennessee, or the amazing flying, diving, one handed, magnet grab vs. the chargers last year.

was it pele who scored the infamous miracle score in world cup soccer that was dubiously called the "hand of God" for a win? i think troy has become the nfl's version of "the hand of God"

when an amazing play needs to happen during crunch time in the playoffs, look no further than troy vs. the colts (highway robbery doesnt negate a spectacular play) or last year vs. the ravens to ice the game.

after a great 1st half vs. tennessee, i have heard more talking heads than ever refer to troy as the most dominant defender in football. some thought it would be a devastating blow to lose him for even a short period. others thought dick lebeau always finds a way to scheme his way around the absence of a good player and the steelers would just keep on keeping on. it seems to be closer to the former

polamalu made the trip to chicago and said he was excited to watch the defense play. im not sure if it was a bizarre joke but he very humbly said, that perhaps they may even play better without him (as if he takes to many risks, or commits too many penalties).

troy and ben are opposite sides of the same coin. without them we are still a good team, but with them we are great. this proves true in the first loss of the 09 season.

he was seen wincing in pain or disgust, for both of the chicago scores in which his back-up, his position, was the primary defender. i'd like to think it was in pain. the pain of not being out there to help his band of brothers win.

greg olsen or johnny knox vs. tyrone carter is simply too favorable of a matchup for any offense not to exploit. troy is faster than either of those guys and perhaps bats down a ball or baits jay cutler into another miracle int.

there is no way any team controls and drives the ball 97 yds down the field with so many plays with polamalu on the field. thats just too many chances a team doesnt get with him in the game. either a mistake is made, such as a sack or interception, or a 3rd down isnt converted.

no that the game is firmly checked into the "L" column, i can look back and not place blame, but appreciate what a great player we have, and the impact it has with him not being on the field.

if teams handed out flat, deflated, loser "gameballs", i would give it to troy.

he didnt even have to make the trip.

ive said it once, and i will say it again...

troy matters. not everybody can just step in and execute dick lebeaus scheme the way that troy does. lebeau has admitted as much.

brett favre.

(its kinda disgusting to see troy in more 30 second shampoo commercials this season, than time he has spent on the field).

i blame john madden and the "curse". that shit is real. :banging:

ricardisimo
11-25-2009, 12:30 AM
The other thing about Brady and Manning (and Brees and Warner for that matter) is that they are barely being touched. Look at their sack totals. If you have a line that can pass protect like those lines, then, yeah, you can consider going pass-happy.

But if you know that your line is giving up sacks like they're going out of style (which everyone else seems to know about the Steelers), then you try to protect your QB with a pronounced run game, and by keeping a running back in the backfield to help pick up the rush. Arians does neither.

His own linemen have said they'd much rather run-block, and are better at it. Arians should be getting this information from all angles. He's going to get Ben killed eventually.

MACH1
11-25-2009, 12:39 AM
The other thing about Brady and Manning (and Brees and Warner for that matter) is that they are barely being touched. Look at their sack totals. If you have a line that can pass protect like those lines, then, yeah, you can consider going pass-happy.

But if you know that your line is giving up sacks like they're going out of style (which everyone else seems to know about the Steelers), then you try to protect your QB with a pronounced run game, and by keeping a running back in the backfield to help pick up the rush. Arians does neither.

His own linemen have said they'd much rather run-block, and are better at it. Arians should be getting this information from all angles. He's going to get Ben killed eventually.

I would say that 2/3 of those sacks are Bens fault. He can't stand back there for 20 secs. waiting to throw the ball.

ricardisimo
11-25-2009, 01:06 AM
I would say that 2/3 of those sacks are Bens fault. He can't stand back there for 20 secs. waiting to throw the ball.

You and I know that, and so should Arians. So you take that into consideration when you game plan; you take some of the pressure off of Ben and the passing game by running more; you keep the RB in the backfield to help pick up the blitz; you run and screen-pass more often to ease the blitz and the pass rush off of him.

Nah... just keep passing until Ben's in the hospital.

tony hipchest
11-25-2009, 01:14 AM
I would say that 2/3 of those sacks are Bens fault. He can't stand back there for 20 secs. waiting to throw the ball.i have to agree. i think ben was sacked twice against the chiefs, which is about once every 21 (or so attempts).

way better than last year when he was sacked once every 13 attempts.

i noticed on the replay of his 2nd td pass to miller (where he pulled yet another miracle houdini move) not only did he have miller for an easy score, but ward was straking across the end zome pretty much wide open.

i have seen this all year. maybe it is a bit of paralysis of over analysis.

maybe arians offensive playcalling is SO genius it is just giving TOO many options to the quarterback. :tap:

chances are even brady or manning would be stymied by the brilliance.

DISCLAIMER- i think arians is a good coach, but if tomlin can shift away from his comfort zone of the tampa 2, arians can shift away from thinking a 65-35 passing attack is "balanced", and mix in a few more runs when we have a 10 point lead.

tony hipchest
11-25-2009, 01:18 AM
Nah... just keep passing until Ben's in the hospital. youre not suggesting we shift from the "run the wheels off willie offense" to the "pass the wings off ben offense" are you? :wink02:

balance. it seems evident the steelers are now protecting themselves from "running the wheels off" last years #1 pick.

they need to do the same with the 04 pick. he is a once in a generation qb.

MasterOfPuppets
11-25-2009, 01:20 AM
troy matters. not everybody can just step in and execute dick lebeaus scheme the way that troy does. lebeau has admitted as much. actually i think lebeau has 2 different defensive schemes...one with troy and one without. i've heard troy say before he isn't out there freelancing like people think he is.

Steeldude
11-25-2009, 01:34 AM
doesn't ward know that it's impossible for anything bad to be the coaches fault?

MACH1
11-25-2009, 01:51 AM
i have to agree. i think ben was sacked twice against the chiefs, which is about once every 21 (or so attempts).

way better than last year when he was sacked once every 13 attempts.

i noticed on the replay of his 2nd td pass to miller (where he pulled yet another miracle houdini move) not only did he have miller for an easy score, but ward was straking across the end zome pretty much wide open.

i have seen this all year. maybe it is a bit of paralysis of over analysis.

maybe arians offensive playcalling is SO genius it is just giving TOO many options to the quarterback. :tap:

chances are even brady or manning would be stymied by the brilliance.

DISCLAIMER- i think arians is a good coach, but if tomlin can shift away from his comfort zone of the tampa 2, arians can shift away from thinking a 65-35 passing attack is "balanced", and mix in a few more runs when we have a 10 point lead.

What we need are more end arounds with our slowest RB. And more empty backfields with short yardage. :tap: yea that's the ticket.

stb_steeler
11-25-2009, 03:58 AM
The other thing about Brady and Manning (and Brees and Warner for that matter) is that they are barely being touched. Look at their sack totals. If you have a line that can pass protect like those lines, then, yeah, you can consider going pass-happy.

But if you know that your line is giving up sacks like they're going out of style (which everyone else seems to know about the Steelers), then you try to protect your QB with a pronounced run game, and by keeping a running back in the backfield to help pick up the rush. Arians does neither.

His own linemen have said they'd much rather run-block, and are better at it. Arians should be getting this information from all angles. He's going to get Ben killed eventually.

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW O-LINE !!! :rofl:

Texasteel
11-25-2009, 06:26 AM
I would say that 2/3 of those sacks are Bens fault. He can't stand back there for 20 secs. waiting to throw the ball.

Absolutely. Ben likes to hold the ball till the last second to give his WRs all the time to work that he can. Sometimes that will end in a fantastic play, sometimes a sack. You have to take the bad with the good.

Ben may change as he gets older, most of us do, but I wouldn't count on it any time soon.

Steeldude
11-25-2009, 09:33 AM
The other thing about Brady and Manning (and Brees and Warner for that matter) is that they are barely being touched.

IMO, the difference here is those QBs read the WRs a lot quicker than BR. release the ball quicker and you reduce the sacks.

revefsreleets
11-25-2009, 10:24 AM
Let me guess....when Ben holds the ball awhile and gets sacked, that's.......................Arians fault. Yet, when he holds the ball, evades tackles, and makes spectacular plays, like the gunslinger he WAS, IS and will remain to be (and as the Steelers most certainly were cognizant of when they drafted him), that is all credited to Ben....

Bad result = coaching error
Good result = player greatness

The_WARDen
11-25-2009, 10:48 AM
Let me guess....when Ben holds the ball awhile and gets sacked, that's.......................Arians fault. Yet, when he holds the ball, evades tackles, and makes spectacular plays, like the gunslinger he WAS, IS and will remain to be (and as the Steelers most certainly were cognizant of when they drafted him), that is all credited to Ben....

Bad result = coaching error
Good result = player greatness

now you're getting it...took ya long enough!

:chuckle:

revefsreleets
11-25-2009, 10:58 AM
I'm not exactly sure who Ward was directing that statement to..."The coaches have to put us in a better position to win". Certainly the ST coach, as the Steelers, for all intents and purposes, started the game down 7-0. Outside of that, it's kind of pointless to speculate...

Steeldude
11-25-2009, 11:16 AM
Let me guess....when Ben holds the ball awhile and gets sacked, that's.......................Arians fault.

if that's what you believe you are entitled to it.

revefsreleets
11-25-2009, 11:21 AM
Yeah, that's what I believe....:uhh:

For someone who already knows everything, that bit of sarcasm sure seemed to have flown right over your head.

I'd love to see the board brain trust connect the dots for the rest of us as to how exactly Ward saying "The coaches have to put us in a better position to win" directly translates to "It's all Arians fault".

Steeldude
11-26-2009, 04:07 AM
Yeah, that's what I believe

that's good, but you only need to say it once. no need to spam it. carry on :smile:

ricardisimo
11-26-2009, 05:16 AM
that's good, but you only need to say it once. no need to spam it. carry on :smile:

Ditto, rev... You are bordering on spamming, from what I can tell. You can state your opinion without the incessant sarcastic attacks, can you not? It might be cliché to point this out, but it's true all the same: personal attacks make you and your argument look weak, to say the least.

Those of us in the brain trust would appreciate a little less noise around here to help us think more clearly. :scholar:

Stlrs4Life
11-26-2009, 06:49 PM
This is going to be taken out of context, and already has.

Ward was simply pointing out that ALL personnel involved in the organization have to reevaluate themselves and refocus and redirect. That's all.


Exactly, constructive criticism if ya ask me.

revefsreleets
11-27-2009, 09:22 AM
Ditto, rev... You are bordering on spamming, from what I can tell. You can state your opinion without the incessant sarcastic attacks, can you not? It might be cliché to point this out, but it's true all the same: personal attacks make you and your argument look weak, to say the least.

Those of us in the brain trust would appreciate a little less noise around here to help us think more clearly. :scholar:

Who the eff made YOU the board police?

This has absolutely nothing to do with you, and, if I'm bothering you, please place me on your ignore list. If you ARE a member of the boards braintrust, then you already know everything about everything already so my posts will hold no value for you anyway.

I will ask again, since no one has bothered to answer my "spam". How exactly is Ward critiquing the coaches by saying they need to put the players in a better position to win actually a criticism directed ONLY at Bruce Arians?

I'm breathlessly anticipating the answer to this question from the mentally superior elements of this board...

markymarc
11-27-2009, 02:52 PM
I will ask again, since no one has bothered to answer my "spam". How exactly is Ward critiquing the coaches by saying they need to put the players in a better position to win actually a criticism directed ONLY at Bruce Arians?

I'm breathlessly anticipating the answer to this question from the mentally superior elements of this board...

I will take a gab at this question. IMO Ward's comments were not directed toward Bruce Arians specifically. To me it's simple the players have to be much better at executing the plays and Ward did not feel the coaches which could be Tomlin, Arians or others on the staff put them in good positions against the Chiefs offensively.

I must ask this though revefsreleets............Why is it in most of your posts you feel the need to question the mental capacity of posters on this board?

revefsreleets
11-27-2009, 09:20 PM
I must ask this though revefsreleets............Why is it in most of your posts you feel the need to question the mental capacity of posters on this board?

Because they preface most of their posts by questioning mine.

markymarc
11-28-2009, 09:56 AM
Because they preface most of their posts by questioning mine.

Okay that is fair. I was not calling you out and just wanted to know about it. Thanks for clarifying!