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View Full Version : Gay being targeted? Think again


Steeldude
12-06-2009, 03:09 AM
for those of you that think gay is the main target of opposing QBs, think again. for those who think mcfadden is missed, think again.

http://pit.scout.com/2/926374.html

Scout.com's Ed Thompson takes a look at the three cornerbacks, safeties and linebackers that NFL quarterbacks have gone after with no mercy this season. And he points out which players at each position are struggling the most when called upon to defend the pass.

Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers: Quarterbacks have gone after the seventh-year corner a 90 times this season, more than any other defender in the NFL. Taylor has allowed a league-high 54 catches (60 percent) for 679 yards and two touchdowns. He's broken-up 11 attempts.

Bryant McFadden, Arizona Cardinals: 87 passes have been thrown McFadden's way, and he's allowed 45 completions (51.7 percent) for 648 yards and a score. He's knocked away 13 throws.

you will also see in that link that ex-steelers' LB larry foote leads the league, for LBs, in getting burned the most by the pass, "...the Lions' Larry Foote has struggled the most with an 80.6 percent burned rate". 80.6%? :toofunny:

solardave
12-06-2009, 06:37 AM
for those of you that think gay is the main target of opposing QBs, think again. for those who think mcfadden is missed, think again.

http://pit.scout.com/2/926374.html

Scout.com's Ed Thompson takes a look at the three cornerbacks, safeties and linebackers that NFL quarterbacks have gone after with no mercy this season. And he points out which players at each position are struggling the most when called upon to defend the pass.

Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers: Quarterbacks have gone after the seventh-year corner a 90 times this season, more than any other defender in the NFL. Taylor has allowed a league-high 54 catches (60 percent) for 679 yards and two touchdowns. He's broken-up 11 attempts.

Bryant McFadden, Arizona Cardinals: 87 passes have been thrown McFadden's way, and he's allowed 45 completions (51.7 percent) for 648 yards and a score. He's knocked away 13 throws.

you will also see in that link that ex-steelers' LB larry foote leads the league, for LBs, in getting burned the most by the pass, "...the Lions' Larry Foote has struggled the most with an 80.6 percent burned rate". 80.6%? :toofunny:

I've said that I thought Ike was having a bad year but I wasn't aware it was that bad. As far as Mcfadden he was no loss but that doesn't absolve Gay IMHO. He's still getting beat when they throw his way and not making easy tackles.

mulldog24
12-06-2009, 09:32 AM
I think our D-fense as a whole isn't as good as last year but part of the reason for our bad cb play by both Ike and Gay is that our front seven don't seem to be getting to the qb as fast this year. Part of this could be attributed to injuries to Smith and Troy or just scheme IMHO.

Steeldude
12-07-2009, 04:47 AM
so as of now, gay is doing better than taylor and mcfadden

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 05:09 AM
so as of now, gay is doing better than taylor and mcfadden

That's like saying that one dog's manure stinks worse than another dog's manure.

They are both manure.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 06:56 AM
That's like saying that one dog's manure stinks worse than another dog's manure.

They are both manure.

When a Defense doesn't go after the QB and gives him enough time to throw, any secondary will get beat more often than not. With Polamalu and Smith out, our defense looks completely ineffective.

Steeldude
12-07-2009, 07:37 AM
That's like saying that one dog's manure stinks worse than another dog's manure.

They are both manure.

that's why i buy generic manure. why spend a ton on manure? it's all the same crap :wink02:

KeiselPower99
12-07-2009, 08:46 AM
I think Gay gets alot of heat because he plays off his guy more the Ike does.

steelerchad
12-07-2009, 09:31 AM
When a Defense doesn't go after the QB and gives him enough time to throw, any secondary will get beat more often than not. With Polamalu and Smith out, our defense looks completely ineffective.



This is the problem I believe. Our rush is just not quite getting there this year. With Troy in, we can recover or compensate for this. With Troy out, when the rush comes a little late it spells disaster. You really have to blame the whole unit as it should work as 1 like last year. It shows that when 1 or 2 critical pieces are missing the whole thing works like shit though.

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 09:31 AM
When a Defense doesn't go after the QB and gives him enough time to throw, any secondary will get beat more often than not. With Polamalu and Smith out, our defense looks completely ineffective.

We are tied for 2nd in sacks in the NFL. We are getting plenty of pressure. The DB's just can't cover. Other than Troy, they all are lower rung DB's.

revefsreleets
12-07-2009, 09:50 AM
Our defense is very complicated...we blitz a TON, and when we blitz, we often leave our CB's exposed, which is why they get paid the big bucks.

I'd actually like to see some more stats before I leap to conclusions about THIS stat. How many times do the Steelers blitz in comparison to other teams? Are there numbers with and without Troy playing safety?

Doesn't it seem odd that all of a sudden Ike Taylor sucks? I've seen the numbers form previous years that show just the OPPOSITE of what these stats are showing. So what happened? What's different?

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Our defense is very complicated...we blitz a TON, and when we blitz, we often leave our CB's exposed, which is why they get paid the big bucks.

I'd actually like to see some more stats before I leap to conclusions about THIS stat. How many times do the Steelers blitz in comparison to other teams? Are there numbers with and without Troy playing safety?

Doesn't it seem odd that all of a sudden Ike Taylor sucks? I've seen the numbers form previous years that show just the OPPOSITE of what these stats are showing. So what happened? What's different?

I think what happened is losing Troy. Other than he and Harrison, there are no playmakers on this defense...especially in the secondary.

Honestly, why wouldn't you throw at Ike. For most CB's 2 out of 3 things can happen that are bad (Incomplete or INT). With Ike, it's only 1 (Incomplete) because you know he isn't going to catch it. Why not take your chances.

MT83
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
Do any of those statistics include missed tackles, because I'm pretty sure Gay would top that list.

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Could be that Gay really ISN'T ready yet, and that it's messing up the entire secondary. Well, that plus Troy being gone.

Same thing happened last year with Colon and Stapleton. Colon didn't suck on his own, but put him next to a guy who sucked, and they both did badly.

Same thing could be happening with McFadden this year in Arizona. Put him next to Taylor, and the two reasonably competent guys do well together. Put him on a shitty Cardinals defense, and his performance suffers, and we all go, "well look at him NOW, we don't miss him."

McFadden has Cromartie on the opposite side, who isn't too shabby. But...their safeties...Rolle and Wilson...are both studs. Personally, I think BMAC is light years better than Gay. Before BMAC was hurt, he was playing a pretty darned good corner for us.

Tone's Toes
12-07-2009, 12:34 PM
At least Ike is getting torched by #1 WR's. Gay is getting torched by nobody's at times. Both haven't played well, though.

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 12:47 PM
At least Ike is getting torched by #1 WR's. Gay is getting torched by nobody's at times. Both haven't played well, though.

The guy who took it to Ike yesterday was a rookie WR from Florida.

revefsreleets
12-07-2009, 02:35 PM
The guy who took it to Ike yesterday was a rookie WR from Florida.

That was broken coverage. Ike's responsibility was the outside, and he had no inside support. If there wasn't SUPPOSED to be safety coverage over the middle then he made a mental error, but neither scenario suggest that Ike got "burnt".

It checkers, not chess.

Anyway, that doesn't excuse it. We didn't have rookies on the field and either Clark or Carter should have been in support.

pepsyman1
12-07-2009, 02:36 PM
I was able to make it out to the game yesterday (once a year trip out from South Jersey) and I'll tell you....William Gay was a disappointment to watch live. I watched him give up three sizable pass plays in the first half that he either got badly turned around by the receiver or simply FELL down. His coverage was poor most of the game. I didn't see a single pass play that Gay looked to be in good position to defend it (I know our corners play off, so that's rare), but he usually played SO far off that he's totally out of the play from the moment the receiver makes his first cut.

Ike, really looked no better in coverage. Many of the same issues...rarely in position to knock a pass away. Frequently slow to turn and sight the ball on longer passes.

Having had a chance to watch our secondary live and be able to see the whole field, it was incredibly disheartening to see the huge gaps we have in our zone coverage. There were multiple plays during the 4th quarter that the Raiders went max protection and only had THREE receivers downfield and we were totally unable to cover them. As badly as they we're making our corners look, you'd swear we were blitzing with 8 guys in the box every play. Just ugly to watch.

revefsreleets
12-07-2009, 03:15 PM
On that particular play, it looked like Clark had to drop what he was doing to go pick up a receiver over the middle who nobody bothered to cover. I'm not sure whether that's his fault for overreacting, or someone else's fault because they were supposed to be protecting the middle. But in any case, some kind of miscommunication left that other receiver wide open with nobody within 20 yards if Clark hadn't come up. That was a pretty piss-poor job on our part, and I don't think you can blame it all on Taylor.

Gay has just been tremendously disappointing this year. Maybe he covers well 80% of the time, but when he makes mistakes, they're bad, bad mistakes that really hurt us. I think that's the main difference between him and McFadden/Townsend.

That's the bad. Here's the WORSE. People want untested inexperienced players to come in and fill those shoes at CB, as if people who SOMETIMES miss assignments being replaced with kids who will almost certainly ROUTINELY miss assignments will somehow improve the situation.

There's more. It's obvious that we can take chances with troy back there that we otherwise could not. Teams are finding that out. But what would we do if Troy were gone?

xbroughneck
12-07-2009, 04:24 PM
And yeah, while I don't think McFadden was worth a giant contract, at this point I've got to believe he's still a better corner than Gay. We just didn't have a very good choice -- pay too much for McFadden, or take our chances with an unproven guy. Oh well. :noidea:

Makes me wonder, though, exactly what good it did to clear out that spare $4-$6 million in cap room that's still sitting there this year.

My only real concern right now is not Gay (even though I think McFadden would have been better in this system). It's CARTER.

While I feel that GAY at times plays soft, I've seen him make a few good plays here and there, and generally he won't get beat deep (because he tends to play off).

The real problem lies in the lack of speed that Carter has. At the safety spot, without Troy back there, we have two safeties in Clark and Carter, that don't defense the pass very well.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I think Gay is only part of the problem in our secondary.

I hope our rookies get a lot of playing time this Thursday.