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View Full Version : Bouchette reporting that "Heads will Roll"


BlastFurnace
12-06-2009, 08:51 PM
He said on the Post Gazette Plus site that the Steeler managment is not happy with some of the coaches and that this game assured that heads will role.

I wonder who they are....

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=150

Unless you have a Post Gazette Plus Subscription, you won't be able to read the article.

fansince'76
12-06-2009, 08:55 PM
Not paying to read Bulchitte's gossip.

BlastFurnace
12-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Not paying to read Bulchitte's gossip.

I have a feeling that it won't be gossip this year.

stillers4me
12-06-2009, 08:58 PM
Not paying to read Bulchitte's gossip.

Not that I don't agree with you about Bouchette.....but I've been led to believe that the FO had total confidence in the coaches and their decisions. :hunch:

HometownGal
12-06-2009, 09:06 PM
I'd trust a rattlesnake before I'd trust Douchette, but if the Steelers FO has a problem with any particular coach or coaches and "heads are going to roll" - though I may not agree with their decision and/or actions, I have to trust that they know what is best for their organization and ultimately, the team.

That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

tony hipchest
12-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Not paying to read Bulchitte's gossip.love it or hate it, bouchette knows more about this team than you and i, or anyone else on this messageboard.

granted... he doesnt have a twitter acct.

Not that I don't agree with you about Bouchette.....but I've been led to believe that the FO had total confidence in the coaches and their decisions. :hunch:

proof positive that overbearing, over exuberant fan's opinions on a messageboard should never be taken as gospel.

BlastFurnace
12-06-2009, 09:09 PM
I'd trust a rattlesnake before I'd trust Douchette, but if the Steelers FO has a problem with any particular coach or coaches and "heads are going to roll" - though I may not agree with their decision and/or actions, I have to trust that they know what is best for their organization and ultimately, the team.

That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

I think the team as a whole has problems this year. It's obvious that Troy bandades a lot of problems in the secondary....and that needs to change. I do believe that the chief weakness on this team is the remaining secondary players...with the cornerbacks being the chief culprit.

The secondary coaches can't make diamonds out of manure.

tony hipchest
12-06-2009, 09:13 PM
That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

i somewhat agree. troy matters.

expecting lower rung players to step in and simply execute to compensate for his loss isnt the answer though.

the steelers didnt make him a top paid safety in the league for nothing.

Bluedust
12-06-2009, 09:16 PM
i somewhat agree. troy matters.

expecting lower rung players to step in and simply execute to compensate for his loss isnt the answer though.

the steelers didnt make him a top paid safety in the league for nothing.

Yes, but we lost to the Bears, Chefs, and Raiders. We should win those games with Troy and Ben out. Hell take Silverback out too. There's no excuse for it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-06-2009, 09:16 PM
love it or hate it, bouchette knows more about this team than you and i, or anyone else on this messageboard.

granted... he doesnt have a twitter acct.



proof positive that overbearing, over exuberant fan's opinions on a messageboard should never be taken as gospel.

I agree that EB knows more than any of us here. I also think he is gonna overhype some things to sell some papers or access to his board.

Who is gonna get fired?? Ligashesky, John Mitchell, Lebeau, Keith Butler???? Not really a special teams issue this week, more of a secondary issue or lack of pressure up front on the defensive side. I know the Arians nation has some thoughts. :wink:

Steeldude
12-06-2009, 09:23 PM
He said on the Post Gazette Plus site that the Steeler managment is not happy with some of the coaches and that this game assured that heads will role.

I wonder who they are....

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=150

Unless you have a Post Gazette Plus Subscription, you won't be able to read the article.

that's impossible. the coaches are never to blame. it's always the fault of the players. :toofunny:

HometownGal
12-06-2009, 09:24 PM
i somewhat agree. troy matters.

expecting lower rung players to step in and simply execute to compensate for his loss isnt the answer though.

the steelers didnt make him a top paid safety in the league for nothing.

I understand what you're saying, Tony, but if this secondary has to rely upon ONE player to achieve success - especially against teams far inferior - there are more serious issues than the injury bug plaguing this D.

steelerchad
12-06-2009, 09:38 PM
This team is bleeding against the run now too. I think the loss of A. Smith is being felt there. He was always holding up blockers to free the backers. I also think his abscense is hurting Harrison's pass rush a little.

When A. Smith was lost in 07 it was felt immediately because we were getting trounced. We hid this a little by winning a few games with him out, but his and Troy's injuries have severly hindered this team defensively.

As close as these losses have been, without the injuries we likely would have won 4 of the 6 losses and all would be well in Steel Town. It's a fine line line between winning and losing and good teams and bad. This years team is not much different from last years.

We won the 2 Ravens games and the Dallas game with incredible comebacks, this year the comebacks are happening to us. Not alot of difference, just a few key mistakes.

SteelC7
12-06-2009, 09:55 PM
gotta fire the special teams coach, the secondary coach, and offensive coordinator and the defensive backfield players

Bluedust
12-06-2009, 10:00 PM
gotta fire the special teams coach, the secondary coach, and offensive coordinator and the defensive backfield players

You know, I was always against firings of coaches when players play like complete ass, but after seeing the Penguins last year and what happened to them, hell fire anyone you want!

I think it's time for a little:
http://i46.tinypic.com/1z5hwqu.jpg
:hug:

tony hipchest
12-06-2009, 10:11 PM
I agree that EB knows more than any of us here. I also think he is gonna overhype some things to sell some papers or access to his board.

Who is gonna get fired?? Ligashesky, John Mitchell, Lebeau, Keith Butler???? Not really a special teams issue this week, more of a secondary issue or lack of pressure up front on the defensive side. I know the Arians nation has some thoughts. :wink:according to "bullshits" latest chat transcript, arians was on the hot seat going back to last season. :noidea:

but hey... what do the rooneys and insider beat reporters know?

ed should be stripped of his HOV vote too.

supa_fly_steeler
12-06-2009, 10:19 PM
why would i pay for some fools gossip, he chats crap

i value everyone's gossip on here just as much or more than him.

i hate blogers who write rubbish and get paid, it must be the second best job behind being a pornstar lol (opinion based, if its rude ill take it out lol)

MaidenIndiana
12-06-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't know, but I was watching the game and I didn't see any of the coaches allowing the Raiders drive from their own 15 yard line with 1:30 minutes to go in the game and score the winning touchdown.

stillers4me
12-06-2009, 10:54 PM
I don't know, but I was watching the game and I didn't see any of the coaches allowing the Raiders drive from their own 15 yard line with 1:30 minutes to go in the game and score the winning touchdown.

And that's why coaches NEVER get fired after losing seasons. They have nothing to do with the plays on the field. :rolleyes:

MaidenIndiana
12-06-2009, 10:57 PM
And that's why coaches NEVER get fired after losing seasons. They have nothing to do with the plays on the field. :rolleyes:

It's easier to fire a couple of coaches than to fire 53 underacheivers

Steeler
12-06-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't know, but I was watching the game and I didn't see any of the coaches allowing the Raiders drive from their own 15 yard line with 1:30 minutes to go in the game and score the winning touchdown.

Why have coaches at all?

OX1947
12-06-2009, 11:01 PM
Last couple of weeks, blaming the coaching would be irresponsible. The last two weeks other then Tomlin's boneheaded decision to kick a 53 yard FG, has been on the players all the way through.

Shea
12-06-2009, 11:01 PM
And that's why coaches NEVER get fired after losing seasons. They have nothing to do with the plays on the field. :rolleyes:

:sofunny:
Dang Stillers, you're on a roll tonight. :rocket: :computer: :m16: :computer:

stillers4me
12-06-2009, 11:04 PM
:sofunny:
Dang Stillers, you're on a roll tonight. :rocket: :computer: :m16: :computer:

Telling Ben to go headfirst into a pile of 300 pound linemen about drove me over the edge.

WIKDCUT
12-06-2009, 11:07 PM
Only real bad coaching move I saw was going for it on 4th instead of kicking the FG. Hell, it's the Raiders! They average 10 points a game! Get the 3.

Other then that:

1. The coaches didn't make Will Gay fall all over the field like he was on ice.
2. The coaches didn't make Ben throw a BAD INT in the red zone.
3. The coaches didn't make Ike Taylor lose his "swagga" and look like a rookie.
4. The coaches didn't make Mundy DROP a sure INT that would have ended the game.
5. The coaches didn't make Mundy take a personal foul penalty on the final drive.

I could go on, but the players are dropping the ball this year. (no pun intended)
Players are missing assignments, dropping balls, fumbling balls, missing tackles, blowing coverages, blowing coverages, throwing Ints, missing blocks, etc.

Another SB slump seems to be upon them.

tony hipchest
12-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Telling Ben to go headfirst into a pile of 300 pound linemen about drove me over the edge.alls he had to do was execute the play. :rolleyes:

i guarantee, putting in dixon in, in that situation woulda been more effective (and probably had a better chance of catching the brilliant raider coaches off guard).

personally, i wouldve simply opted for the field goal.

SteelCityMom
12-06-2009, 11:15 PM
Only real bad coaching move I saw was going for it on 4th instead of kicking the FG. Hell, it's the Raiders! They average 10 points a game! Get the 3.

I didn't hate the call to go for it on 4th down...I just hated that it was a QB sneak, especially since it was about a yard and not just a couple inches. Should have just been a hand off.

Other then that:

1. The coaches didn't make Will Gay fall all over the field like he was on ice.
2. The coaches didn't make Ben throw a BAD INT in the red zone.
3. The coaches didn't make Ike Taylor lose his "swagga" and look like a rookie.
4. The coaches didn't make Mundy DROP a sure INT that would have ended the game.
5. The coaches didn't make Mundy take a personal foul penalty on the final drive.

I could go on, but the players are dropping the ball this year. (no pun intended)
Players are missing assignments, dropping balls, fumbling balls, missing tackles, blowing coverages, blowing coverages, throwing Ints, missing blocks, etc.

Another SB slump seems to be upon them.

Agree with the rest of this (except it was Burnett and not Mundy who dropped the INT), but I do think someone is going to lose their job soon...my money's on the secondary coach.

stillers4me
12-06-2009, 11:24 PM
alls he had to do was execute the play. :rolleyes:

i guarantee, putting in dixon in, in that situation woulda been more effective (and probably had a better chance of catching the brilliant raider coaches off guard).

personally, i wouldve simply opted for the field goal.

I hated it because Ben suffered a concussion just 2 weeks ago. Just do something else. It didn't work anyway. Telling Ben to go headfirst into a brick wall is ok, but not using Dixon because he might get hurt is just just plain stupid.

MasterOfPuppets
12-06-2009, 11:28 PM
I could go on, but the players are dropping the ball this year. (no pun intended)
Players are missing assignments, dropping balls, fumbling balls, missing tackles, blowing coverages, blowing coverages, throwing Ints, missing blocks, etc.

Another SB slump seems to be upon them.
believe it or not...all that goes back to coaching. sure a player is going to screw up occassionally...miss a block, blow an assignment... but when the same mistakes are made repeatedly, then that means players aren't properly prepared and that would be a coaching problem. :popcorn: thats why they practice before games.

MACH1
12-06-2009, 11:30 PM
believe it or not...all that goes back to coaching. sure a player is going to screw up occassionally...miss a block, blow an assignment... but when the same mistakes are made repeatedly, then that means players aren't properly prepared and that would be a coaching problem. :popcorn:

yeah, like 8 games in a row.

I can think of a certain ST coach who will be looking for a new team.

fansince'76
12-06-2009, 11:38 PM
love it or hate it, bouchette knows more about this team than you and i, or anyone else on this messageboard.

Why? Because he comes off as the Rona Barrett of the Steelers? Wonder what juicy new locker room rift old Ed will uncover for us this week?

Steeler
12-06-2009, 11:56 PM
Only real bad coaching move I saw was going for it on 4th instead of kicking the FG. Hell, it's the Raiders! They average 10 points a game! Get the 3.

Other then that:

1. The coaches didn't make Will Gay fall all over the field like he was on ice.
2. The coaches didn't make Ben throw a BAD INT in the red zone.
3. The coaches didn't make Ike Taylor lose his "swagga" and look like a rookie.
4. The coaches didn't make Mundy DROP a sure INT that would have ended the game.
5. The coaches didn't make Mundy take a personal foul penalty on the final drive.

I could go on, but the players are dropping the ball this year. (no pun intended)
Players are missing assignments, dropping balls, fumbling balls, missing tackles, blowing coverages, blowing coverages, throwing Ints, missing blocks, etc.

Another SB slump seems to be upon them.

You just made the point that it is coaching. Thanks:chuckle:

stb_steeler
12-06-2009, 11:56 PM
gotta fire the special teams coach, the secondary coach, and offensive coordinator and the defensive backfield players

Lets say the Steelers would clean house and fire a few coach's, which i dont think thats a good idea as of now but, say they got new coach's and the team was to turn over a new leaf so to speak and tear it up. Then we'd have all kinds of fans saying told ya thats what we needed. On the other hand if the team did alot worse than before the firings ,then you'd have the same ones saying i told ya that was a bad idea. Now as for it being the players fault, what are you gonna do?, replace some or most?.Then take the risk of looking like the bad news bears?. Damned if you do Damned if you dont. I do see alot of plays that shoulda coulda been called. I guess you have to ride the storm out!

Steeldude
12-07-2009, 05:44 AM
I don't know, but I was watching the game and I didn't see any of the coaches allowing the Raiders drive from their own 15 yard line with 1:30 minutes to go in the game and score the winning touchdown.

so basically you are saying coaches are useless. if arians calls for a long bomb 27 times in a row, it better work 27 times. if it doesn't work then it's the players' faults. i mean, it's not the coaches out there on the field, right? :coffee:

stillers4me
12-07-2009, 06:09 AM
so basically you are saying coaches are useless. if arians calls for a long bomb 27 times in a row, it better work 27 times. if it doesn't work then it's the players' faults. i mean, it's not the coaches out there on the field, right? :coffee:

Yes, I do believe that's what the claim is. :popcorn:

Preacher
12-07-2009, 06:28 AM
so basically you are saying coaches are useless. if arians calls for a long bomb 27 times in a row, it better work 27 times. if it doesn't work then it's the players' faults. i mean, it's not the coaches out there on the field, right? :coffee:

Yes, I do believe that's what the claim is. :popcorn:

Come on. YOu both know that's not what the claim is. When Ben throws the pick, Ward was open, then the D player made a good play and got back in coverage.

Dropped passes, tipped passes for INT's, etc. are all on players. If the guy is open, then it was a good play call by the coach because they found an opening and exploited it. If they call a play and no one is open, then it is a bad play call by the coach.

If we are trying to run the ball, and a seem doesn't open up, its bad execution OR a bad call, depending on the setup.

We all know this. When you look at the offensive stats, they show that the CALLS have been pretty good. It has been the execution over all that has caused problems.

However, in the last 4 weeks, continued breakdown on execution means there is a deeper problem with this team. Now, its on the coaches AND players.

The problem is, many around here, as I have said NUMEROUS times, want a scapegoat because its easier to yell and scream about a guy then it is to actually think through what the issues might be.

Personally, I see the ST's coach gone this year. The O line has came together more than we thought it would, so I think Z. gets another year to see what he can do with it. I have defended Arians, but really, could care less if he stays or goes. Ben is very comfortable with him, so that is very important. Lebeau will stay, but I think his secondary coaches get shaken up.

As far as players are concerned, I think we draft high for a CB if we can get one. Also another D line.... maybe a NT. 2 of the first three, then BAP after that.

Steeldude
12-07-2009, 07:25 AM
If they call a play and no one is open, then it is a bad play call by the coach.


ah, but that's not what some believe. if they didn't get open it's the fault of the players. after all, the coaches aren't running the patterns, passing, catching, kicking, covering, blocking etc... :smile:

Now, its on the coaches AND players

as it always is.

Rick5895
12-07-2009, 07:46 AM
If heads are to roll, the ST coach will likely be gone, although, they were better yesterday. I thyink we have the CB on our roster, they are both just rookies (Lewis, Burnett) IKe is a talented player, he just needs to be pushed. That will happen next season. We need to draft a safety or DL in the first round.
I don't think firing Horton (secondary) is the answer. He is a god coach who has been here a long time. As much as I don't like Arians, Ben is comfortable with him. THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
Making lots of change because of a "sky is falling" mentality could be worse for this team.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 07:50 AM
That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

Not the root cause but certainly a big part of the problem. Explain to me how our coaches expected Reed to score on a 53yds FG when he hasn't kicked one longer than 46 this entire season, including indoor. This was a terrible decision IMO.
Last week, our terrible offensive coaching in overtime most likely cost us the game too.

Overall, it looks to me that this team has no fire and no focus and they look lethargic. This falls entirely on the coaches' shoulders.

I'm just saying ,,,,,,,,,,,

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 08:14 AM
Not the root cause but certainly a big part of the problem. Explain to me how our coaches expected Reed to score on a 53yds FG when he hasn't kicked one longer than 46 this entire season, including indoor. This was a terrible decision IMO.
Last week, our terrible offensive coaching in overtime most likely cost us the game too.

Overall, it looks to me that this team has no fire and no focus and they look lethargic. This falls entirely on the coaches' shoulders.

I'm just saying ,,,,,,,,,,,

You can go back and nitpick at play calls in just about every game this season that we've lost, including the decision above, but when all is said and done - it has been our D who gave away leads in the 2nd half, and particularly the 4Q, which have cost us games - not one or two play call decisions. At any rate - the 53 yd. FG attempt had no bearing on the game. If Reed would have nailed it, it would have been the greatest call ever. That call didn't hurt us in the long run as the Raiders did nothing with that series and had to punt. No disrespect intended, but it blows my mind how the D gets a free pass around here. :banging: In last week's game, we put up 17 points with a 3rd string QB on the Rats D and had the game right in our hands until the D allowed Flacco, not only late in the 4Q but in OT, to march down the field at will and put points on the board, including the game winning FG. Offensive players are paid to put points on the board - defensive players are paid to keep points off the board. Yesterday we put up 24 - more than enough to win a football game in the NFL - especially against a pretty hapless Raiders D. Once again, our D allowed the opposing QB, in this case Bruce Freakin' Gradkowski, to get in their heads, take control of the game and score the winning TD after our O gave them the lead. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problem lies and imho - it isn't with the O side of the ball.

SteelStang
12-07-2009, 08:15 AM
There isn't anyone without fault after that debacle. Tomlin's decision to let Reed try a 53 yarder was the icing on the coaching mistake cake. There is absolutely nothing he could say that would justify doing that in my mind. As much as I have issues with BA at times, I thought his play-calling was fine yesterday. Special teams was better, especially Logan, but let's face it, the ST coach HAS to go.

I'm really not sure about DL, I have a feeling he'll be back, but I can understand if he left. The defensive backfield is bad. No other word for it, they are bad. Clark has had two really poor games in a row now. How many times can you be out of position? I'm not even going to get into the CB's.

If our first 3 draft picks do not include a CB, OL, and DL then I will know someone in the FO is nuts.

msafford
12-07-2009, 08:23 AM
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problem lies and imho - it isn't with the O side of the ball.

I agree 100%. Before the season, who would have ever thought that to be the case?

plenewken
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problem lies and imho - it isn't with the O side of the ball.

Yes, it is also with the O side of the ball.
3 redzone opps blown yesterday. 10-6 after 3 quarters tells me that our offense sucked as much as our defense.
Look at the stats. The Steelers are 14th in points scored and 9th in points scored against.
We are 7th in total offense and 5th in total defense.
So there's no problem with the offense? Except 1 game where Ben didn't play, the offense didn't have 1 major injury this season. On the other hand our defense plays without Smith and Polamalu.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 09:04 AM
Yes, it is also with the O side of the ball.
3 redzone opps blown yesterday. 10-6 after 3 quarters tells me that our offense sucked as much as our defense.
Look at the stats. The Steelers are 14th in points scored and 9th in points scored against.
We are 7th in total offense and 5th in total defense.
So there's no problem with the offense? Except 1 game where Ben didn't play, the offense didn't have 1 major injury this season. On the other hand our defense plays without Smith and Polamalu.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, plenewken. Our O put 24 points on that board and had the lead with 1:56 left in the game (again - a late 4Q lead). Stats schmats. Stats don't win football games.

As I said in another thread - if the D can't hold a late 4Q lead without one or two starters in the lineup, there are bigger problems which need to be addressed in the offseason. Almost every game (even in the Lions and Chargers W's), our secondary goes into meltdown mode and gives up a late 4Q or OT score. This should not happen - period. Sure Troy makes an enormous impact out on that field and Smith makes a huge impact on the line, but Troy can't be everywhere every time on every play and neither can Smith. It is up to the other guys on that unit to step up their play several notches and get 'r done. Obviously, they haven't.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 09:11 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, plenewken. Our O put 24 points on that board and had the lead with 1:56 left in the game (again - a late 4Q lead). Stats schmats. Stats don't win football games.

As I said in another thread - if the D can't hold a late 4Q lead without one or two starters in the lineup, there are bigger problems which need to be addressed in the offseason. Almost every game (even in the Lions and Chargers W's), our secondary goes into meltdown mode and gives up a late 4Q or OT score. This should not happen - period. Sure Troy makes an enormous impact out on that field and Smith makes a huge impact on the line, but Troy can't be everywhere every time on every play and neither can Smith. It is up to the other guys on that unit to step up their play several notches and get 'r done. Obviously, they haven't.

What lead did we have in the 4Q? A friggin' 4 points lead!!!! Against the friggin' Raiders!!! We've should have been easily 3 scores ahead of them, especially when our defense held them to 6 points in 45mn. 10pts scored in 45mn is putrid, period.
Yeah, let's agree to disagree here.

madtowndrunkard
12-07-2009, 09:19 AM
What lead did we have in the 4Q? A friggin' 4 points lead!!!! Against the friggin' Raiders!!! We've should have been easily 3 scores ahead of them, especially when our defense held them to 6 points in 45mn. 10pts scored in 45mn is putrid, period.
Yeah, let's agree to disagree here.


:applaudit:

Steeler
12-07-2009, 09:26 AM
As much as I don't like Arians, Ben is comfortable with him. THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I am so tired of hearing this shit. So tired.

O Sensei
12-07-2009, 09:27 AM
Yeah as much as it is painfully obvious that the defense has issues that go far beyond the missing parts, smith and Polamalu and the glaring ST issues, the redzone offense freakin' blows. BB is having his best stat year yet, they've discovered that Mendenhall actually is a top talent and they can't come up with a plan to put the ball in the endzone on a consistent basis and that in itself is pathetic and frankly in a nutshell why I dislike Arians so vehemently. I was actually xmas shopping in a mall in erie yesterday, so sure was I that another KC was not in our midst and well, it had to be done, grammas gotta get her shop on. I was stunned to hear from a passerby that it was 10-6 in the third...no way....you gotta be kidding me...fired up the new droid toy and sure enough. Come the final two minutes, myself, me mum and my family had joined about 50 others in front of a flatscreen in a mall lounge area staring in disbelief as our offense, finally clicking a day late and a few dollars short, left it in the hands of our talentless dbs. Truebelievers, you know the rest and all the while I stood there in my silverback throwback wondering why the hell we weren't up by 40 come the 4th quarter. Too many field goals, too many TOs in the redzone, too few TDs....if this is progress give me Dan Kreider, a couple decent run blockers, a cloud of dust and no more GD INTs. Ultimately, at the end of it all Bruce Arians will be judged on how the offense worked when it counts, and game winning drives are great for a resume, but alot of game winning drives also means that many times you didn't do the work earlier to put the game out of reach when you had opportunities to do so, they don't, they have not, it is his responsibility...whats the alternative...fire Ben(?) and that is why I hope he goes. We can argue til the cows come home that the defense collapses at the worst moments and that is beyond fair...but if they are stoning a team for three quarters and the offense goes 20-20 4-6 times kicking field goals I say the blame is equal. The bottom line is no matter what defense this offense faces, there is too much talent there to have a TD conversion rate in the redzone of less than 50%, which would be a dream right now. Imagine that, a 21 point lead that would have been, even our dbs would have a hard time messing that up.

Steeler
12-07-2009, 09:36 AM
You can go back and nitpick at play calls in just about every game this season that we've lost, including the decision above, but when all is said and done - it has been our D who gave away leads in the 2nd half, and particularly the 4Q, which have cost us games - not one or two play call decisions. At any rate - the 53 yd. FG attempt had no bearing on the game. If Reed would have nailed it, it would have been the greatest call ever. That call didn't hurt us in the long run as the Raiders did nothing with that series and had to punt. No disrespect intended, but it blows my mind how the D gets a free pass around here. :banging: In last week's game, we put up 17 points with a 3rd string QB on the Rats D and had the game right in our hands until the D allowed Flacco, not only late in the 4Q but in OT, to march down the field at will and put points on the board, including the game winning FG. Offensive players are paid to put points on the board - defensive players are paid to keep points off the board. Yesterday we put up 24 - more than enough to win a football game in the NFL - especially against a pretty hapless Raiders D. Once again, our D allowed the opposing QB, in this case Bruce Freakin' Gradkowski, to get in their heads, take control of the game and score the winning TD after our O gave them the lead. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problem lies and imho - it isn't with the O side of the ball.

You must have watched another game because the 53 yard FG miss did have an impact on our teams confidence that they can win. If the players don't have confidence in the coaches decisions, (which I don't as a fan so I can only imagine if they were my boss') how can you expect 100% effort out on the field. The Steelers coaching staff isnít a strong part of the team right now and if you can't see that you are delusional. IMHO.

SteelerFanInStl
12-07-2009, 09:37 AM
They certainly need to make some changes.

The defense has been the biggest dissappointment for me this year. Every loss has been because we blew the lead in the 4th quarter. Troy has been out but you can't allow one player to make that much of a difference. Without Troy, the secondary seems lost. They're out of position way too often and there are few passes that are broken up.

The offense isn't without fault. Way too many blown red zone chances. They've settled for FGs all year. They've been able to move the ball though and with Mendenhall and Wallace doing so well, there's a lot of hope for them to keep getting better.

The bottom line is that this team is just far too talented to be playing the way that they are, even with the injuries.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 09:42 AM
Yeah as much as it is painfully obvious that the defense has issues that go far beyond the missing parts, smith and Polamalu and the glaring ST issues, the redzone offense freakin' blows. BB is having his best stat year yet, they've discovered that Mendenhall actually is a top talent and they can't come up with a plan to put the ball in the endzone on a consistent basis and that in itself is pathetic and frankly in a nutshell why I dislike Arians so vehemently. I was actually xmas shopping in a mall in erie yesterday, so sure was I that another KC was not in our midst and well, it had to be done, grammas gotta get her shop on. I was stunned to hear from a passerby that it was 10-6 in the third...no way....you gotta be kidding me...fired up the new droid toy and sure enough. Come the final two minutes, myself, me mum and my family had joined about 50 others in front of a flatscreen in a mall lounge area staring in disbelief as our offense, finally clicking a day late and a few dollars short, left it in the hands of our talentless dbs. Truebelievers, you know the rest and all the while I stood there in my silverback throwback wondering why the hell we weren't up by 40 come the 4th quarter. Too many field goals, too many TOs in the redzone, too few TDs....if this is progress give me Dan Kreider, a couple decent run blockers, a cloud of dust and no more GD INTs. Ultimately, at the end of it all Bruce Arians will be judged on how the offense worked when it counts, and game winning drives are great for a resume, but alot of game winning drives also means that many times you didn't do the work earlier to put the game out of reach when you had opportunities to do so, they don't, they have not, it is his responsibility...whats the alternative...fire Ben(?) and that is why I hope he goes. We can argue til the cows come home that the defense collapses at the worst moments and that is beyond fair...but if they are stoning a team for three quarters and the offense goes 20-20 4-6 times kicking field goals I say the blame is equal. The bottom line is no matter what defense this offense faces, there is too much talent there to have a TD conversion rate in the redzone of less than 50%, which would be a dream right now. Imagine that, a 21 point lead that would have been, even our dbs would have a hard time messing that up.

Exactly. Great post.

Steeler
12-07-2009, 09:45 AM
"I have to coach better," coach Bill Belichick said. "We have to play better, just do a better job."

I'm no Belicheat fan by any means but I wish our coach would take the blame as well.

O Sensei
12-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Exactly. Great post.

Thank you, nice of you to say, I have my quite rare but occasional moments, sadly the lows often include making a fool of myself so I keep a hobo clown suit at the ready to make it seem planned. Perhaps our CBs could each use one.

revefsreleets
12-07-2009, 09:59 AM
I give up. You guys all want Arians fired, why don't we just go ahead and fire Arians then. I'm sure that will fix everything.

-Our special teams.
-Our offensive line
-Our secondary

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 10:00 AM
Let me guess now...um...Secondary Coach...um...Special Teams coach...and um...the guy who washes the socks...yep...those 3 seem most likely to go.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 10:01 AM
Thank you, nice of you to say, I have my quite rare but occasional moments, sadly the lows often include making a fool of myself so I keep a hobo clown suit at the ready to make it seem planned. Perhaps our CBs could each use one.

Our secondary is far from being stellar, especially without Polamalu but I didn't see too much pressure on the QB during the 4th quarter either. If you give 6 or 7 seconds to a QB, it'll burn you more often than none, even a lousy one.
I haven't seen Ziggy Hood too much yesterday or for most of the season for that matter. Did he play yesterday?
Being a 1st round pick, I would have thought the guy would have been a little more visible, I dunno.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2009, 10:03 AM
To all the "Johnie Come Lately" whiners.

Lets say we dont win another game the rest of the year. BOO-FREAKIN-HOO!!!! We are the 6-time World Champions. We are the CURRENT World Champions!!!! We are the fans of the greatest sports franchise of ALL TIME!!!!

I have no problem with people saying that "We need to fix _______ (fill in the blank)....and giving an articulate reasoning to back up their statement with their thoughts on what we can do to fix it. But this WHINING and CRYING like we are the Detroit FREAKIN Lions is pathetic and sad.

We will move on...we will look at the draft and free agents...we will shore up the weaknesses, add depth to positions, cut players. LIKE WE ALWAYS DO AFTER A BAD SEASON.....Bad seasons happen and the Steelers bounce back WITHOUT the genious of pissy Armchair generals and Couch captains.

And YES post count DOES mean something to me!!! Come in here and show the forum that you understand football....PROVE to the forum that you have something to add other than Bitching and Moaning. EARN enough respect that when you whine and moan and bitch about how bad this team sucks, you have a foundation of respect in the forum that allows people to see that your not just a fair weather fan who falls apart with a losing season.

I am SERIOUSLY tired of newbies coming in here and feeling like they are somehow "enlightened" , and feel the need to take the rest of us to football nirvana with shallow mud puddle epiphanies about how we now "suck".

On any given day....I would rather be a fan of the 6-6 Pittsburgh Steelers than the 9-3 Bengals!!!!

scsteeler
12-07-2009, 10:21 AM
What lead did we have in the 4Q? A friggin' 4 points lead!!!! Against the friggin' Raiders!!! We've should have been easily 3 scores ahead of them, especially when our defense held them to 6 points in 45mn. 10pts scored in 45mn is putrid, period.
Yeah, let's agree to disagree here.


It only takes 1 point to win a game and with less than 2 minutes in the game our Defense should have been able to shut down the Raiders period. We have issues on Defense and it does not look promising as of now. The offense has done its part to win games the D has not. This year is not going like we wanted it to and like it or not we will just have to ride the wave.

Fire Haley
12-07-2009, 10:34 AM
Bring it on.

Weis as OC, Cowher as DC and Shanahan as HC.

That about covers it.

plenewken
12-07-2009, 10:39 AM
The offense has done its part to win games the D has not.

With the weapons it has, both in running and in passing, scoring 10 points in 45mn against the Raiders is not doing its part

This is my opinion and if you look at the stats on NFL.com, they confirm it. We are a higher ranked defense than offense. Not that the D is clicking now but our red zone offense has been pretty ineffective.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
You must have watched another game because the 53 yard FG miss did have an impact on our teams confidence that they can win. If the players don't have confidence in the coaches decisions, (which I don't as a fan so I can only imagine if they were my boss') how can you expect 100% effort out on the field. The Steelers coaching staff isn’t a strong part of the team right now and if you can't see that you are delusional. IMHO.

You don't think the D giving up not one, not two - but THREE TD's with a little more than 8 minutes to go in the game to a team that averages 10 PPG doesn't have a major impact on our team's confidence to win??? If you and some of the others around here who want to give the D a free pass, then YOU are suffering from delusion, not me and those of us who actually use the eyeballs God gave us.

The_WARDen
12-07-2009, 11:03 AM
You don't think the D giving up not one, not two - but THREE TD's with a little more than 8 minutes to go in the game to a team that averages 10 PPG doesn't have a major impact on our team's confidence to win??? If you and some of the others around here who want to give the D a free pass, then YOU are suffering from delusion, not me and those of us who actually use the eyeballs God gave us.

Now now...don't confuse them with facts.

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 11:08 AM
I give up. You guys all want Arians fired, why don't we just go ahead and fire Arians then. I'm sure that will fix everything.

-Our special teams.
-Our offensive line
-Our secondary

The Three coaches for the areas of the team you listed below may be prime candidates. It would hard to argue if that did occur.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-07-2009, 11:34 AM
ed should be stripped of his HOV vote too.

I agree. Tenured sportswriters who have a Hall of Fame vote for Canton are completely unreliable unless they use Twitter as their main source of reporting. :rolleyes:

X-Terminator
12-07-2009, 11:52 AM
You don't think the D giving up not one, not two - but THREE TD's with a little more than 8 minutes to go in the game to a team that averages 10 PPG doesn't have a major impact on our team's confidence to win??? If you and some of the others around here who want to give the D a free pass, then YOU are suffering from delusion, not me and those of us who actually use the eyeballs God gave us.

You're better off saving your keystrokes. I tried explaining this ad nauseum last night, and I just gave up. We must be the only fanbase in the league that have fans who blame the problems with the defense on the offense and the OC.

It doesn't friggin matter how many points the offense left on the field...the fact of the matter is that they gave the defense the lead TWICE in the 4th Q after they had already blown the lead, and BOTH times, the D could not stop a team lead by Bruce friggin Gradkowski. Not Peyton Manning, not Marsha, not Rosie...hell, not even Baby Huey (Rivers) or Baby Eli. Bruce Gradkowski, a guy who could not even keep a job with the Cleveland Browns. And on those 2 scoring drives, they went 84 and 88 yards in under 2 minutes. I'm sorry, but the defense DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT get a free pass here under any circumstances. And the offense sure as hell should not be blamed for their screwups. They didn't get the job done when it mattered. PERIOD.

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Yeah but...if you are up by 30 points in the 3rd quarter the only thing the other team can do is pass the ball, so you can play pass the entire way. Whereas when its a close game, like it was the Raiders stayed true to the running game keeping our safety down near the box (as in the huge play for a TD gainst Taylor)

So its a FAIL on the entire team. We didn't score enough early to make the Raiders one dimensional, and the defense EPIC Failed TWICE in the 4th to let up huge drives with a lead. Just disgusting display of filth yesterday by a team that was supposed to be playing for its..."playoff lives"

steelballs
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
I think the team as a whole has problems this year. It's obvious that Troy bandades a lot of problems in the secondary....and that needs to change. I do believe that the chief weakness on this team is the remaining secondary players...with the cornerbacks being the chief culprit.

The secondary coaches can't make diamonds out of manure.

I agree...If Troy is the only reason for our secondary ills, then he's not paid nearly enough. Taylor looked horrible yesterday, Carter was lost and Gay continued his poor tackling before getting his bell rung and Burnett.....all I can say is C'mon Man.

SteelerFanInCA
12-07-2009, 12:02 PM
I've got to side against the D. For whatever reason they are just not getting it done.

That was a tough loss yesterday. I know there's lots of talent on both sides of the ball. I'm hoping we see that talent play to it's potential the remainder of the season.

O Sensei
12-07-2009, 12:04 PM
@ HTgirl,

On the contrary, it's obvious the secondary issues we were concerned about going into LAST season were justified, the concerns with the pass defense, the mid range stuff is expected, the defense is designed to keep things in front of the defender and limit further gain, but the over the top coverage specifically, perhaps they didn't focus on these enough....can't keep everyone but maybe mcfadden was just better ENOUGH...that he made a difference, not sure. It's really troubling to watch, I had flashbacks of NE and Oak torching our pass defense in succession years ago, rich gannon never looked so good.

I guess the sad fact is I don't like the offensive philosophy and alot of you do and thats just a difference of opinion, that said, I thought BA called a great game, they just didn't produce when they should have and the defense did what our NEW DEFENSE does and it bit them in the ass, all of it together, working in unison, can't win the SB every year. Won a few games last year because great players made plays and pulled out victories....deshea's INT comes to mind, they are not making them this season for whatever reason, especially, especially on defense.

So, is the defense at fault? Hell yes. Does the offense need to be better in the redzone to effectively compete against the better teams? You bet your ass. Are the KO and punt coverages pathetic? By all standards yes. Do we have problems and they are many???? The sky is not falling, they have alot of talent, they could still make the postseason where anything can and does happen and if they don't the lab will still be there to go back into, work it up and do better next time, or the next time, or the next time. Thats what they do, this...this...is what we fans do, they do it better than anyone, as do we. Here we go

:tt04::tt04::tt04::tt04::tt04::tt04::tt04:

The_WARDen
12-07-2009, 12:04 PM
Yeah but...if you are up by 30 points in the 3rd quarter the only thing the other team can do is pass the ball, so you can play pass the entire way. Whereas when its a close game, like it was the Raiders stayed true to the running game keeping our safety down near the box (as in the huge play for a TD gainst Taylor)

So its a FAIL on the entire team. We didn't score enough early to make the Raiders one dimensional, and the defense EPIC Failed TWICE in the 4th to let up huge drives with a lead. Just disgusting display of filth yesterday by a team that was supposed to be playing for its..."playoff lives"


what'd the defense think they were gonna do on that final drive? Yup, pass the ball. How'd that turn out?

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 12:06 PM
what'd the defense think they were gonna do on that final drive? Yup, pass the ball. How'd that turn out?

Oh for sure, the Defense EPIC FAILED!

I in fact posted that in one of these threads...I posted the Entire Game...every play of every drive and pointed out all the Failures, and there were lots. I'm sure we could go through every loss and point to spots where the offense failed, and where the defense failed.

Oh, and when the got the ball down into our territory late, the Scramble killed us.

zsheik22
12-07-2009, 12:07 PM
I'd trust a rattlesnake before I'd trust Douchette, but if the Steelers FO has a problem with any particular coach or coaches and "heads are going to roll" - though I may not agree with their decision and/or actions, I have to trust that they know what is best for their organization and ultimately, the team.

That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.



I love the steelers eventhough we stink this year, but you constantly dismiss anything negative about the steelers as slander and fraud.

MaidenIndiana
12-07-2009, 12:08 PM
so basically you are saying coaches are useless. if arians calls for a long bomb 27 times in a row, it better work 27 times. if it doesn't work then it's the players' faults. i mean, it's not the coaches out there on the field, right? :coffee:

Well using that logic the coaches are responsible for everything, good or bad, that occurs during the game. So therefore it was the coaches that won the SB last year right?Of course that's rediculous, but if they're responsile when things go bad then they should be responsible for when things go good. Coaches coach and players are supposed to play

atlsteelers
12-07-2009, 12:18 PM
i know it was only the "raiders" game but whats up the stadium being half full at kickoff? who had more folks show up; the pitt game on saturday or the hell unleashed on their fans steelers on sunday? at least the pitt fans made a little noise.

fansince'76
12-07-2009, 12:20 PM
I love the steelers eventhough we stink this year, but you constantly dismiss anything negative about the steelers as slander and fraud.

No, she dismisses the over-the-top, knee-jerk overreactions to losing as slander and fraud as do I, and there is a huge difference. A "scorched earth" policy towards management (i.e.cleaning house and firing everybody) seems to be a lot of folks' answer to everything after every loss.

Rick5895
12-07-2009, 12:21 PM
You can go back and nitpick at play calls in just about every game this season that we've lost, including the decision above, but when all is said and done - it has been our D who gave away leads in the 2nd half, and particularly the 4Q, which have cost us games - not one or two play call decisions. At any rate - the 53 yd. FG attempt had no bearing on the game. If Reed would have nailed it, it would have been the greatest call ever. That call didn't hurt us in the long run as the Raiders did nothing with that series and had to punt. No disrespect intended, but it blows my mind how the D gets a free pass around here. :banging: In last week's game, we put up 17 points with a 3rd string QB on the Rats D and had the game right in our hands until the D allowed Flacco, not only late in the 4Q but in OT, to march down the field at will and put points on the board, including the game winning FG. Offensive players are paid to put points on the board - defensive players are paid to keep points off the board. Yesterday we put up 24 - more than enough to win a football game in the NFL - especially against a pretty hapless Raiders D. Once again, our D allowed the opposing QB, in this case Bruce Freakin' Gradkowski, to get in their heads, take control of the game and score the winning TD after our O gave them the lead. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the problem lies and imho - it isn't with the O side of the ball.

Yes they did put up 24 points on the horrible raiders D. To be sure our defense was again terrible in the 4th.
However, before you absolve the O , lets look at some facts about this game, and IMO it is a capsule of our season offensively. We had 10 points through 3 quarters against a "hapless Raiders D"
We should have had 28 points at the conclusion of the first half. Consider the following:
Logan returns the opening K/O to the Raider 19. Empty backfield on 1st down, run on second throw on 3rd, FG .

4th and less than a yard from the oakland 5, WE GOT STUFFED!!!

Ben throws a pic in the end zone at the end of the half, into 3 raiders!!!

By my count that is 3 td's squandered, while our D only allowed 6. We should have been up 28-6, which renders the defensive short coming mute.

Our D has been awful late in games, but if our DB's could actually catch the damn ball we would be saying anything a different tune.

You cannot let bad teams hang around, and with the offensive talent on this team we need to score TD's when the opportunity arises. We are unable to or not putting teams away. We know the problems on D, but the O has to accept a lot of responsiblity, is it failure of the players to execute or the failure of coaches to call the right plays, ( I still think we need to keep a back in the backfield in the redzone) I think it's a combination of both.

BTW I was at the game yesterday and during warmups Reed didn't make any attempt over 47 yards and even then he was less than 50%.

HTG you continually defend the O and say we scored enough to win, true enough, you defend Arians, but maybe watching from the whole spector of the game, I think you need to be realistic . The offnse is not taking care of business either. This team has relied on the Defense for many years and even this year the D was responsible for the Vikings win and IMO the Titans win. Sometimes the O has to score some points when the opportunity arises and not have the attitude "well that ok we threw a pic, fumbles, kicked a FG when we should have scored a TD" The defense will save us again.
Our D was great last year and IMO was the main reason we won the SB. Time for the O to step up!!

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 12:21 PM
i know it was only the "raiders" game but whats up the stadium being half full at kickoff? who had more folks show up; the pitt game on saturday or the hell unleashed on their fans steelers on sunday? at least the pitt fans made a little noise.

I have noticed this as well. It's that way every game after halftime and Heinz is not the only place where this happens.

Fire Haley
12-07-2009, 12:27 PM
It's not the offense that's losing games. It's the pathetic defense - with one of the easiest schedules in years.

Cowher would have grabbed LeBeau by the scruff of his neck and screamed and spit in his face by now... "You better light a fire under this ****y bunch of losers of yours and have them make some plays!"

And when game saving plays are there to be made - they drop everything.
0 INT's by our CB's in 12 games - that's disgusting

Steeldude
12-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Well using that logic the coaches are responsible for everything, good or bad, that occurs during the game. So therefore it was the coaches that won the SB last year right?Of course that's rediculous, but if they're responsile when things go bad then they should be responsible for when things go good. Coaches coach and players are supposed to play

lol...you are getting it all wrong. if something positive happens then it's because of the coaches. if something negative it's because of the players. :toofunny:

my opinion on this is they are both to blame. in some incidents one side is more to blame than the other.

Steeler
12-07-2009, 01:23 PM
To all the "Johnie Come Lately" whiners.

Lets say we dont win another game the rest of the year. BOO-FREAKIN-HOO!!!! We are the 6-time World Champions. We are the CURRENT World Champions!!!! We are the fans of the greatest sports franchise of ALL TIME!!!!

I have no problem with people saying that "We need to fix _______ (fill in the blank)....and giving an articulate reasoning to back up their statement with their thoughts on what we can do to fix it. But this WHINING and CRYING like we are the Detroit FREAKIN Lions is pathetic and sad.

We will move on...we will look at the draft and free agents...we will shore up the weaknesses, add depth to positions, cut players. LIKE WE ALWAYS DO AFTER A BAD SEASON.....Bad seasons happen and the Steelers bounce back WITHOUT the genious of pissy Armchair generals and Couch captains.

And YES post count DOES mean something to me!!! Come in here and show the forum that you understand football....PROVE to the forum that you have something to add other than Bitching and Moaning. EARN enough respect that when you whine and moan and bitch about how bad this team sucks, you have a foundation of respect in the forum that allows people to see that your not just a fair weather fan who falls apart with a losing season.

I am SERIOUSLY tired of newbies coming in here and feeling like they are somehow "enlightened" , and feel the need to take the rest of us to football nirvana with shallow mud puddle epiphanies about how we now "suck".

On any given day....I would rather be a fan of the 6-6 Pittsburgh Steelers than the 9-3 Bengals!!!!

So you would like to silence people? I just want to know what your goal of this post is? What you are saying is if someone doesn't have over a certain number of post's on this forum they must not know what they are talking about and should just keep their mouth shut. How many post did you have when you first signed up to this forum?

MaidenIndiana
12-07-2009, 01:36 PM
lol...you are getting it all wrong. if something positive happens then it's because of the coaches. if something negative it's because of the players. :toofunny:

my opinion on this is they are both to blame. in some incidents one side is more to blame than the other.

I agree that there's plenty of blame to go around for both sides:coaches and players. It just seems to me that everyone is taking the easy way out by blaming the coaches, lets fire the ST coach, Arians, even Tomlin. Yet nobody seems to mention that the players are paid professionals. They're being paid great money to perform their job. So far this year there are a lot of players who are definately not earning their paychecks

The_WARDen
12-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Oh for sure, the Defense EPIC FAILED!

I in fact posted that in one of these threads...I posted the Entire Game...every play of every drive and pointed out all the Failures, and there were lots. I'm sure we could go through every loss and point to spots where the offense failed, and where the defense failed.

Oh, and when the got the ball down into our territory late, the Scramble killed us.

I just saw that. Very impressive I must say..

My only point was that I'm not sure that the defense can stop the opposition even when they know what's coming...

7SteelGal43
12-07-2009, 01:52 PM
As long as Lebeau and Tomlin stay. Hey, here's a thought, get rid of Arians and the ST coaches.

devilsdancefloor
12-07-2009, 02:36 PM
what would be nice if you post a linky linky to a pay site maybe copy and paste content if ya can :). But i love our defense that is one of the reasons i was first attracted to the steelers, but ike is playing the part of deon figures and gay is playing the part of chard scott. I have not figured out WHY or where the hell our safeties have been. Ryan seems way out of position and ty seems very lost like should i be in run coverage or pass coverage. I personally want to see K. Lewis the next 4 games cant hurt maybe throw in burnett for a nickel back. Hell i would even like to see what shea has left in the tank. But if you are gonna give them a free pass then you havent been watching the games. You cant blames BA either, because after they lost the lead in the 4th he had like a 4 play drive and score (that is great play calling and execution by the O). Defense lost the lead again and then we scored again. I was and still am upset over the loss, but act like a adult when posting it seems like a bunch of spoiled little brats are posting.:tt04::tt04::tt04:

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2009, 02:52 PM
So you would like to silence people? I just want to know what your goal of this post is? What you are saying is if someone doesn't have over a certain number of post's on this forum they must not know what they are talking about and should just keep their mouth shut. How many post did you have when you first signed up to this forum?

Nope...I'm saying that 13 posts is a little early to hear someone WHINE about being "tired of hearing this shit" ,..... Really? 13 posts and your already "tired"???

There are More people in this forum "tired" of hearing the whiney little bitching and moaning of those who offer up an empty bag of gummi bears instead of true in-depth analysis.

Fair enough?

BigBen'sSwagger
12-07-2009, 02:56 PM
I'd trust a rattlesnake before I'd trust Douchette, but if the Steelers FO has a problem with any particular coach or coaches and "heads are going to roll" - though I may not agree with their decision and/or actions, I have to trust that they know what is best for their organization and ultimately, the team.

That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

It aint all coaches but I think they deserve more of the brunt.

You have Rush Hard gaining 60+ yards and then the next SERIES you have Willie Parker and the SERIES after that you have Moore??? Mean while Menden Haul gets cold waiting his turn on the sidelines.

How bout the empty sets against a team that has a notoriously bad rush defense??? Why not at least make it look like you might run??? Fumbes and dropped passes are on players, bad formations or game planning are on coaches.

Using players strengths to get an advantage is up to coaches as well. How many times did we see Dixon threaten to run??? Not enough for my liking.

How many of our players were falling down on the field yesterday??? I don't think I saw a single raider slipping on the ground but at least 4 times I saw Steelers slipping, I thought this was Our Home field!!!

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of blame to go around, like, like limas sweed dropping that last pass in the endzone, but I put more of the blame on the coaches than I do the players right now.

Either way this lossing to sub par teams is getting on my nerves, I am totally frustrated right now.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2009, 02:58 PM
I've got to side against the D. For whatever reason they are just not getting it done.

That was a tough loss yesterday. I know there's lots of talent on both sides of the ball. I'm hoping we see that talent play to it's potential the remainder of the season.

This is the correct way to show ones annoyance at the team.....not ONE trace of whining...not ONE trace of an arrogant "I can see it why cant anyone else" attitude...not ONE trace of giving up on the team.

:thumbsup:
I thank you and totally agree with what you say.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 03:02 PM
I love the steelers eventhough we stink this year, but you constantly dismiss anything negative about the steelers as slander and fraud.

I most certainly do not. I call it as I see it just as everyone else does around here. I just don't take every opportunity to kick a team that I've supported all of my life when they're down like some of you do have no problem doing. I also am smart enough to realize that my team isn't going to go to the playoffs and win the Super Bowl every single season and I'm not going to develop arthritis in my ankles from stomping my feet when they don't. The sense of entitlement around this place is sickening to say the least.

OK genius - where oh where have I used the words "slander" and fraud"? Because I don't like or trust Douchette? I've lived in Pittsburgh almost my entire life, have read his jibberish for decades and not the only Burgher who has a negative opinion of him.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Well using that logic the coaches are responsible for everything, good or bad, that occurs during the game. So therefore it was the coaches that won the SB last year right?Of course that's rediculous, but if they're responsile when things go bad then they should be responsible for when things go good. Coaches coach and players are supposed to play

:applaudit::thumbsup::applaudit:

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2009, 03:12 PM
Because I don't like or trust Douchette? I've lived in Pittsburgh almost my entire life, have read his jibberish for decades and not the only Burgher who has a negative opinion of him.

If given the choice to save the life of Mark Madden or Bouchette, I choose......No.

Both are ass-hats of he highest order and are more interested in the "hook" of a story then in its facts.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 03:41 PM
Yes they did put up 24 points on the horrible raiders D. To be sure our defense was again terrible in the 4th.
However, before you absolve the O , lets look at some facts about this game, and IMO it is a capsule of our season offensively. We had 10 points through 3 quarters against a "hapless Raiders D"
We should have had 28 points at the conclusion of the first half. Consider the following:
Logan returns the opening K/O to the Raider 19. Empty backfield on 1st down, run on second throw on 3rd, FG .

4th and less than a yard from the oakland 5, WE GOT STUFFED!!!

Ben throws a pic in the end zone at the end of the half, into 3 raiders!!!

By my count that is 3 td's squandered, while our D only allowed 6. We should have been up 28-6, which renders the defensive short coming mute.

Our D has been awful late in games, but if our DB's could actually catch the damn ball we would be saying anything a different tune.

You cannot let bad teams hang around, and with the offensive talent on this team we need to score TD's when the opportunity arises. We are unable to or not putting teams away. We know the problems on D, but the O has to accept a lot of responsiblity, is it failure of the players to execute or the failure of coaches to call the right plays, ( I still think we need to keep a back in the backfield in the redzone) I think it's a combination of both.

BTW I was at the game yesterday and during warmups Reed didn't make any attempt over 47 yards and even then he was less than 50%.

HTG you continually defend the O and say we scored enough to win, true enough, you defend Arians, but maybe watching from the whole spector of the game, I think you need to be realistic . The offnse is not taking care of business either. This team has relied on the Defense for many years and even this year the D was responsible for the Vikings win and IMO the Titans win. Sometimes the O has to score some points when the opportunity arises and not have the attitude "well that ok we threw a pic, fumbles, kicked a FG when we should have scored a TD" The defense will save us again.
Our D was great last year and IMO was the main reason we won the SB. Time for the O to step up!!

Thank you for your post and though I don't agree with a lot of it, we know up front where the other stands. :drink:

I don't "continually defend the O" - I simply call it as I see it. I know it's probably hard for a lot of guys to believe that us women are actually scholars of the game as you all are, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I am not only a huge fan of our beloved Steelers but a fan of the GAME itself.

The D may have been primarily responsible for the W against the Vikes, as they had two D TD's off turnovers, but most definitely not the Tites game. Our D gave up 330 yards that game - 244 through the air to Kerry *Hiccup* Collins.

Some of you conveniently forget that there are DC's and HC's on the other side of the ball and they do their homework. While Arians may call a play that he feels is going to work, the DC is busy on the other side of the ball trying to read the play and scheming on how to stop it. Ben has also been given the option to audible or call the no-huddle when he sees fit. Believe me - I wish the Steelers would score 50 points a game but I know that is irrational and illogical. However - I do feel that in the majority of our losses, the O has pretty much done its job only to have the D squander away the leads. Go back and re-watch or read the play by plays on every game the Steelers have lost this season and hopefully, you'll be able to see why those of us who don't make a living out of bludgeoning the O and Arians every single week may actually have a valid point or two.

ricardisimo
12-07-2009, 03:46 PM
No, she dismisses the over-the-top, knee-jerk overreactions to losing as slander and fraud as do I, and there is a huge difference. A "scorched earth" policy towards management (i.e.cleaning house and firing everybody) seems to be a lot of folks' answer to everything after every loss.

Mmmm... I'm not so sure. The fact that HTG and several others quite clearly and vocally despise Bouchette speaks volumes. Here's a guy who does his job: he reports Steelers news with a good degree of objectivity. That's clearly unacceptable. You'll never hear complaints from these folks about lick-spittles like Ron Cook or John Harris, or weather vanes like Collier and Dulac, which is just as telling.

There's also the obsession in this forum with lumping all of the "Fire-so-and-so" threads together, as if the same person or persons are writing them. So, if you're always reading the forum that way, then every single "Fire Ligashesky" post suddenly becomes an over-the-top example of "scorched Earth"... which they are not when read individually.

I wouldn't be so quick to question the credentials of a long-tenured newspaperman who has weekly meetings with players and staff... I dare say none of us here can boast the same access. With that in mind, do you really think Bouchette is blustering when he suggests that the Rooneys are displeased with the performance of their defending champion team? It's been abysmal on many levels, and they have a right to expect more for the money they pay the players (which is on the high end, league-wise).

If I were the Rooneys, I'd ask: "Did you lie to us about how to assess and compensate these players? Do you not know how to evaluate? Or do you not know how to use these high-quality players properly?" Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. The weirdness with dramatically under-utilizing Mendy and an O-line that was clearly built for (and prefers) run-blocking is beyond words. Barely using Ziggy at all is also odd, especially given Smith's injury.

The Rooneys have to be worried about the future, even more than about the remainder of this year. Even as good as Arians is, they must be asking whether or not he's going to get the franchise QB killed, and let Rashard wither until he decides to sign with the Browns instead.

fansince'76
12-07-2009, 03:51 PM
Mmmm... I'm not so sure. The fact that HTG and several others quite clearly and vocally despise Bouchette speaks volumes. Here's a guy who does his job: he reports Steelers news with a good degree of objectivity. That's clearly unacceptable. You'll never hear complaints from these folks about lick-spittles like Ron Cook or John Harris, or weather vanes like Collier and Dulac, which is just as telling.

Wrong. I think Cook and Harris are both hacks as well, as well as Collier and Dulac. Try again.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Mmmm... I'm not so sure.

.....I wouldn't be so quick to question the credentials of a long-tenured newspaperman who has weekly meetings with players and staff... I dare say none of us here can boast the same access....

If I were the Rooneys, I'd ask: "Did you lie to us about how to assess and compensate these players? Do you not know how to evaluate? Or do you not know how to use these high-quality players properly?" Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. .

There is something basically wrong with your premise. You are quick to give Brouchette credit due to his "access to the players"...yet state that you "personally" lean towards the coaches ( with more access) having no ability to evaluate players...who overwhelmingly were almost all here to win a Super Bowl.

I would tend to think that our coaches know a HELL of a lot more about the talent level of our team than Bouchette does.

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 03:55 PM
what's the rumor...Ike Taylor not starting against the Browns?

TackleMeBen
12-07-2009, 03:55 PM
i am quite sure the rooneys arent pleased with the coaches and players this season. is it likely some may be without a job, of course. but the coaches arent out on the field missing tackles and throwing INTs. the players are not excuting the plan that the coaches have put in place. then once the coaches see the players not executing the plays, they should make adjustments, something i havent seen them do. (although i could be missing it).

Rick5895
12-07-2009, 03:55 PM
Thank you for your post and though I don't agree with a lot of it, we know up front where the other stands. :drink:

I don't "continually defend the O" - I simply call it as I see it. I know it's probably hard for a lot of guys to believe that us women are actually scholars of the game as you all are, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I am not only a huge fan of our beloved Steelers but a fan of the GAME itself.

The D may have been primarily responsible for the W against the Vikes, as they had two D TD's off turnovers, but most definitely not the Tites game. Our D gave up 330 yards that game - 244 through the air to Kerry *Hiccup* Collins.

Some of you conveniently forget that there are DC's and HC's on the other side of the ball and they do their homework. While Arians may call a play that he feels is going to work, the DC is busy on the other side of the ball trying to read the play and scheming on how to stop it. Ben has also been given the option to audible or call the no-huddle when he sees fit. Believe me - I wish the Steelers would score 50 points a game but I know that is irrational and illogical. However - I do feel that in the majority of our losses, the O has pretty much done its job only to have the D squander away the leads. Go back and re-watch or read the play by plays on every game the Steelers have lost this season and hopefully, you'll be able to see why those of us who don't make a living out of bludgeoning the O and Arians every single week may actually have a valid point or two.

HTG I never said you weren't knowledgable about the game , as your posts point out you are very knowledgable.
I am not trying to bludgeon the O or Arians. The O for what ever reason is not scoring enough, I don't expect 50 points, but what I expect and do expect from any team I have coached or am a fan of is taking advantage of the opportunities. Yesterday for example we had our offense in the "red zone" 3 times in the first half and cam away with only 3 points. You are correct the D was horrible, but the O is just as responsable for our losses. When you have the talent we do on O, that is not acceptable.
BUt we can agree to disagree on this point. We should have been up in this game and against the chiefs that itshouldn't have mattered. IMO

ricardisimo
12-07-2009, 04:08 PM
There is something basically wrong with your premise. You are quick to give Brouchette credit due to his "access to the players"...yet state that you "personally" lean towards the coaches ( with more access) having no ability to evaluate players...who overwhelmingly were almost all here to win a Super Bowl.

I would tend to think that our coaches know a HELL of a lot more about the talent level of our team than Bouchette does.

Huh? I was defending Bouchette as a journalist, not as a talent evaluator. My premise is merely that his report of "heads rolling" is unlikely to be just an attempt to sell papers. He could do just as well with cheerleading, if that were the goal.

Look, the long and the short of it is that Pittsburgh is not a journalist's paradise. Mellon-Scaife has made sure of that, and even the PG has been affected by his shenanigans. Bouchette gets a B+, Scott Brown gets a B-, and everyone else is utterly worthless, for the reasons already mentioned. But at least those two make some attempt at actual warts-and-all journalism.

TackleMeBen
12-07-2009, 04:10 PM
what's the rumor...Ike Taylor not starting against the Browns?
hines may be out against the browns with a hammy injury. and gay will be out with a concussion.

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 04:13 PM
Yeah but rumor is Tomlin may bench Ike Taylor and start both Rookie Corners against the Browns.

ricardisimo
12-07-2009, 04:15 PM
Yeah but rumor is Tomlin may bench Ike Taylor and start both Rookie Corners against the Browns.

Normally I'd say the Browns games should be treated like preseason warm-ups, and we should start all of the rookies. Lately, though... I'm not so sure.

TackleMeBen
12-07-2009, 04:15 PM
Yeah but rumor is Tomlin may bench Ike Taylor and start both Rookie Corners against the Browns.
it c ouldnt hurt after the way they played yesterday.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-07-2009, 04:17 PM
what's the rumor...Ike Taylor not starting against the Browns?

I'd be interested to see how we fare with Townsend and Burnett/Lewis starting. Ike may be getting the benching similar to back in the day where he needed to focus more on his technique and details.

Go for it I say.

TackleMeBen
12-07-2009, 04:26 PM
you are right, it cant hurt to try something new and see how it works out. heck why not just bring in the whole practice squad and see if they can do better..lol

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-07-2009, 04:34 PM
you are right, it cant hurt to try something new and see how it works out. heck why not just bring in the whole practice squad and see if they can do better..lol

Honestly, I can think of a couple replays where it was really apparent that our CB's were not taking care of their fundamentals. Gay got beat on a double move that didnt connect, but he was standing flat footed waiting for the WR to get to him, instead of being in a decent inside technique and backpeddling.

Young guys are eager to prove they can play and will often take care of the details of their position, to try and make up for the lack of experience they have in the NFL. I dont think Burnett is that far behind Gay at this point and may just surprise a lot here if he gets the week to practice as the starter.

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 04:42 PM
There we actually 2 times when the Raiders QB over threw wide open guys that had beaten our corners soundly.

That game actually could have been a lot worse then it was.

xbroughneck
12-07-2009, 05:10 PM
That being said, however, I still maintain that the coaches aren't the root of the problems that have saddled this team this season. Just mho.

I agree. In years past I would have been quick to blame Arians...but the 4th quarter breakdowns aren't because of coaching from what I see. I hate speaking ill of players, but I think having McFadden and a healthy Troy instead of Gay and Carter would have had us at 11-1 instead of 6-6. The front seven have been status quo even though this has been Timmon's first year starting.

It's the secondary and their reliance on Troy that has let the Steelers down this season.:coffee:

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 05:13 PM
There we actually 2 times when the Raiders QB over threw wide open guys that had beaten our corners soundly.

That game actually could have been a lot worse then it was.

...and those guys were wide open too. I remember the first one was on Gay. I'm not sure who the other was on.

BlastFurnace
12-07-2009, 05:14 PM
I agree. In years past I would have been quick to blame Arians...but the 4th quarter breakdowns aren't because of coaching from what I see. I hate speaking ill of players, but I think having McFadden and a healthy Troy instead of Gay and Carter would have had us at 11-1 instead of 6-6. The front seven have been status quo even though this has been Timmon's first year starting.

It's the secondary and their reliance on Troy that has let the Steelers down this season.:coffee:

There are alot of hard feelings for BMAC on Steelers boards because he left. People claiming he wasn't any better than Gay when he was here and nothing could be further from the truth.

Dino 6 Rings
12-07-2009, 05:22 PM
There are alot of hard feelings for BMAC on Steelers boards because he left. People claiming he wasn't any better than Gay when he was here and nothing could be further from the truth.

I've been a fan of BMac since he made back to back plays against the Colts in the playoffs to save touchdowns after the Bettis Fumble prior to the missed field goal. The kid had game when he played for us for sure.

I was hoping Gay would be able to step into the role but he's not doing anywhere near what he needs to do in order to be a great corner in this league.

Even if BMac is having a bad season in Arizona, when he was with us, he was pretty awesome.

HometownGal
12-07-2009, 06:13 PM
There is something basically wrong with your premise. You are quick to give Brouchette credit due to his "access to the players"...yet state that you "personally" lean towards the coaches ( with more access) having no ability to evaluate players...who overwhelmingly were almost all here to win a Super Bowl.

I would tend to think that our coaches know a HELL of a lot more about the talent level of our team than Bouchette does.

Couldn't agree with you more. :thumbsup:

ricardisimo - don't act as if you know me or what I'm thinking. I'm pretty consistent with my assessments and opinions and I've never pretended to be a fan of Bouchette, Cook or Smizik, so my post shouldn't surprise anyone. Once in a blue moon, they'll come up with a good read or two but most of the time, they're doing what jocky journalists do - throw 2 handfuls of shit up into the air and hope something sticks. Controversy sells.