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Glace
12-10-2009, 11:23 PM
I've defended the guy from the lynch mob on this forum....I've praised the guy at times.

After tonight...I have to say....finally....: "Bruce, no offense, but we need a change."

A disturbing pattern I've been hearing and seeing a lot this year is "Everybody downfield is covered". Do you truly believe with the speed and talent we have at WR that nobody can get open for Ben?

I LOVE the camera that spans across the field and basically gives you the QB's view of the action. I saw HORRIBLE routes by the WR's tonight. I saw guys near each of the sidelines running curl and stop routes....I saw 2 receivers basically in the SAME AREA several times. There was NOBODY in the middle of the field on I can't tell you how many occasions. It's no wonder there is nobody open.

Nobody able to get open is affecting Ben's sack total. It's affecting how long he holds onto the ball. That forces them to use Heath to try to block on pass plays, taking away one of our most dependable receiving options.

If this is one or 2 games....no problem. But I have finally been seeing this same pattern play out all season.

I think there is one thing that covers up for this problem....and that is "backyard football"....when Ben has to run for his life....receivers break free from their routes and get open for Ben.

Bruce Arians is not putting people in the best position to make plays....

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2009, 11:25 PM
If you are lucky, another team with a Head Coaching Vacancy in the offseason will want to hire our offensive mastermind to run their team. :thumbsup:

BlastFurnace
12-10-2009, 11:26 PM
I have to come to think the same way.

FacemeIke
12-10-2009, 11:29 PM
What took you so long?

Steelerroy
12-10-2009, 11:32 PM
We needed a great year to convince a team to take Arians.Ben loves him and I'm scared to death we're stuck with the jackass.

GodofGridiron
12-10-2009, 11:36 PM
Seems like we run the same plays, same formations with variations on which side of the field the plays are ran.

Snatch Dirk Koetters ass from Jacksonville to replace BA. That man could work wonders with this talent in Pitt.

FacemeIke
12-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Its Tomlin's call though, not Ben's, and I don't see Tomlin sticking his reputation as a coach on the line for a guy just because Ben likes him. Tomlin's still a young coach with a lot to prove in this league. He's going to do whats best for the team whether Ben likes it or not.

Glace
12-10-2009, 11:39 PM
Its Tomlin's call though, not Ben's, and I don't see Tomlin sticking his reputation as a coach on the line for a guy just because Ben likes him. Tomlin's still a young coach with a lot to prove in this league. He's going to do whats best for the team whether Ben likes it or not.

Well...I like beer...and the only thing I have to show for it is my belly getting bigger....sometimes you have to get rid of things you like to make things better for everybody.

tony hipchest
12-10-2009, 11:44 PM
If you are lucky, another team with a Head Coaching Vacancy in the offseason will want to hire our offensive mastermind to run their team. :thumbsup::sofunny:
i was thinking the browns might possibly be that team (and by that, i mean a 1% chance), but not after tonight. rob ryan would be their next HC before arians.

Well...I like beer...and the only thing I have to show for it is my belly getting bigger....sometimes you have to get rid of things you like to make things better for everybody.
___________

thats one of the best analogies ive read on this board in a long time.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-10-2009, 11:45 PM
:sofunny:
i was thinking the browns might possibly be that team (and by that, i mean a 1% chance), but not after tonight. rob ryan would be their next HC before arians.

Yeah, I was thinking of the matchup of Rob Ryan vs. Bruce Arians tonight. I can sum it up in one word........................OWNED!

MasterOfPuppets
12-10-2009, 11:46 PM
I have to come to think the same way.
same here...i've been in the "its the players not executing" camp mostly all year, but my god after today its impossable to defend him and the retarded formations and play calling... :doh: as for tomlin, his tampa 2 doesn't mix with lebeau's scheme and needs to be scrapped.

X-Terminator
12-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Well, I really can't defend the guy anymore. I think this performance tonight may very well have cost him his job. I mean, they were going up against the worst defense in the league that was missing 1/3 of their starters...and they could only muster up 6 points? Absolutely inexcusable. The entire game plan tonight was just awful.

And I swear to God, if I ever see the empty set again in ANY scenario, I'm going to lose my mind. They better scrap that shit for good next season, and beyond. Nothing like telegraphing that you're going to pass! :doh::banging:

tony hipchest
12-10-2009, 11:59 PM
And I swear to God, if I ever see the empty set again in ANY scenario, I'm going to lose my mind. They better scrap that shit for good next season, and beyond. Nothing like telegraphing that you're going to pass! :doh::banging:

bu..bu...bu.. its up to the players to execute that telegraphed and predictable set.

that is steelers football. we line them up and impose our will.

(nevermind the fact that we had the 10th rusher in the league who was 3rd in YPC with an astronomical 5 ypc) :doh:

trends were set, and trends were followed.

trends were studied, and trends were owned.

im pissed.

the freaking 1-11 browns beat the superbowl champions. :banging:

WH
12-10-2009, 11:59 PM
I just woke up and checked on the score before watching the replay.

REALLY! They lost to the effing Browns. I know.....i'm still asleep and this is a nightmare.

GridironWarrior
12-11-2009, 12:01 AM
Well, I really can't defend the guy anymore. I think this performance tonight may very well have cost him his job. I mean, they were going up against the worst defense in the league that was missing 1/3 of their starters...and they could only muster up 6 points? Absolutely inexcusable. The entire game plan tonight was just awful.

And I swear to God, if I ever see the empty set again in ANY scenario, I'm going to lose my mind. They better scrap that shit for good next season, and beyond. Nothing like telegraphing that you're going to pass! :doh::banging:

Yeah I don't know why they keep emptying the backfield. I also can't stand that WR screen, how many times did the Browns snuff that out?

Steel-Bryan
12-11-2009, 12:05 AM
When ward retires, maybe he can be our OC , and Batch can be the QBs coach ! :chuckle:

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 12:08 AM
bu..bu...bu.. its up to the players to execute that telegraphed and predictable set.

that is steelers football. we line them up and impose our will.

(nevermind the fact that we had the 10th rusher in the league who was 3rd in YPC with an astronomical 5 ypc) :doh:

trends were set, and trends were followed.

trends were studied, and trends were owned.

im pissed.

the freaking 1-11 browns beat the superbowl champions. :banging:
and god forbid putting a new wrinkle in the offense where a player might get broken in half... but hey, lets keep an H back on the roster and put him in the backfield twice a game to block and throw 3 passes to him a year...

psusteelers4life
12-11-2009, 12:10 AM
There was no real adjustment in the play calling to slow their blitz, they kept running some of the same patterns out of different formations and running deep routes. granted the O-line play was horrid atleast if we saw an adjustment made but there wasn't any real changes.

Glace
12-11-2009, 12:11 AM
For the record....I still don't want to see us hire Weis...

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 12:14 AM
hey i heard the wildcat was just a fad and wouldn't work this year because all the teams would have a defense for it now.... :noidea:

Edman
12-11-2009, 12:17 AM
I don't give a shit what Ben wants, or what anyone else says.

Bruce Arians is a disease. I'm sick and tired of his bullshit. If Tomlin is really serious about righting this ship next season, he gives this clown the boot. If he keeps him, then Tomlin's time here won't be much longer.

His schemes are predictable, he can't adjust, he doesn't play to his players' strengths, he abandons what works, the red zone woes have been a constant problem since he was here, and overall tries to fit square pegs into round holes. If it weren't for Ben saving his ass week after week last year, this jackass would've been out already. We won XLIII in spite of Arians. Not because of him. Thanks to Arians' chickenshit offensive philosophy, Ben is impatient and is geared to throw it deep every goddamned play.

Hines Ward said teams have been gearing up to stop the Deep Ball since the Vikes game. How does Bruce respond? More empty backfield! Chuck it deep! Chuck it deep!

X-Terminator
12-11-2009, 12:22 AM
If Tomlin is really serious about righting this ship next season, he gives this clown the boot. If he keeps him, then Tomlin's time here won't be much longer.

Tomlin really doesn't have much say in that. If the FO wants Arians gone, he will be gone, and there's nothing Tomlin, or Ben for that matter, can do about it.

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 12:27 AM
No Wildcat in Arians' offense
Steelers Training Camp
Thursday, August 20, 2009
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It doesn't matter that they have a quarterback who is an ideal fit for the package, a player who can run as well as he can throw.

It doesn't matter that they used the package last season after borrowing the scheme from the University of Arkansas.

It doesn't even matter that former Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden said on national television that the package will revolutionize the National Football League this season.

There is only one NFL team in the state of Pennsylvania that might be running the Wildcat package this season, but it's not the Steelers.

"I've seen what people are going to do to it," said offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. "Once our defense saw it enough times, they devised something to stop it. Defenses are catching on real quick." guess you were wrong bozo...

Then he added: "Plus, I'm not taking a $100 million quarterback and playing him at wide receiver. Or on the bench."

The reference was to Ben Roethlisberger, who would line at wide receiver in the package and pretend to be a wide receiver when the ball was directly snapped to the running back. The other option would have been to remove Roethlisberger and replace him with Dennis Dixon.

The Steelers though, did not put in the Wildcat package because they drafted Dixon, who had 6,337 yards total offense at Oregon. They had already added the formation to their playbook as a way to further feature Pro Bowl running back Willie Parker.

But after using the Wildcat package for four plays in the preseason, the Steelers never used the formation again until they pulled it out for one play in the Super Bowl. And Parker was stopped for no gain.

"I'd love to do it," said Dixon, a fifth-round pick in 2008. "That's something I did in college. I'm used to it. You got to know when to do it and when not to do it because it takes a toll on your body if you don't use it correctly."

It appears now he won't get the chance -- at least not with the Steelers.
arians is just a stubborn jackass who just watched the wildcat kick his ass.. who said you have to use a qb with it ? .:doh:

MACH1
12-11-2009, 12:33 AM
I think it's time to jump on this wagon. Would it kill him to call a few more quick slants over the middle? Something Ben could get the ball out quicker and not stand there waiting for someone down field. Empty backfield has got to go the way of the dinosaurs.

The O gets worse every week because there are no adjustments or change ups to the game plans. It's like one game plan fits all.

Raw Steel
12-11-2009, 12:36 AM
You knew we were in trouble tonight on 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 3 on our first two series when we came out in the shotgun and an empty set the second series. That's just plain stupidity to not at least give the illusion that you might run the ball. Instead, the defense blitzes you. The d-backs press your receivers and you are sacked because none of the receivers can get off the ball on the three-step drop. But Arians keeps trying it. He just doesn't get it. And please don't tell me we won a Super Bowl with him. We won it despite him.

Edman
12-11-2009, 12:36 AM
I think it's time to jump on this wagon. Would it kill him to call a few more quick slants over the middle? Something Ben could get the ball out quicker and not stand there waiting for someone down field. Empty backfield has got to go the way of the dinosaurs.

The O gets worse every week because there are no adjustments or change ups to the game plans. It's like one game plan fits all.

That's how Bruce Arians thinks. Find something that works then stop doing it.

Raw Steel
12-11-2009, 12:38 AM
Another quick point. Ben is something like 35 for 39 on play-action passes this year (that was a stat on TV a couple games ago). He almost has a perfect passer rating in that situation. Yet, we have only run 39 or so play-action passes. How can you be an NFL coach and not see what works?

BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 12:42 AM
I don't give a shit what Ben wants, or what anyone else says.

Bruce Arians is a disease. I'm sick and tired of his bullshit. If Tomlin is really serious about righting this ship next season, he gives this clown the boot. If he keeps him, then Tomlin's time here won't be much longer.

His schemes are predictable, he can't adjust, he doesn't play to his players' strengths, he abandons what works, the red zone woes have been a constant problem since he was here, and overall tries to fit square pegs into round holes. If it weren't for Ben saving his ass week after week last year, this jackass would've been out already. We won XLIII in spite of Arians. Not because of him. Thanks to Arians' chickenshit offensive philosophy, Ben is impatient and is geared to throw it deep every goddamned play.

Hines Ward said teams have been gearing up to stop the Deep Ball since the Vikes game. How does Bruce respond? More empty backfield! Chuck it deep! Chuck it deep!

Best post of the entire night on this board! Ben is chucking this ball deep way too much. It's time to take this power we have given Ben back. Arians must be fired.

Edman
12-11-2009, 12:42 AM
Another quick point. Ben is something like 35 for 39 on play-action passes this year (that was a stat on TV a couple games ago). He almost has a perfect passer rating in that situation. Yet, we have only run 39 or so play-action passes. How can you be an NFL coach and not see what works?

I repeat: That's how Bruce Arians thinks. Find something that works then stop doing it.

pepsyman1
12-11-2009, 12:43 AM
Wouldn't a play action pass to Wallace on a streaking post pattern be a nice thing to see? lol Considering how much they've been trying to throw the ball downfield, I'm amazed that I haven't seen them just turn Wallace loose on one. Ben is great a play action too....more evidence that Arians must chart exactly what works and then promptly remove it from the playbook.

Raw Steel
12-11-2009, 12:46 AM
Matt Millen kept saying the same thing all night. The Browns played the exact same defense on every play. Man under, two deep. Disguised blitzes. You know what works in that situation. Draws. Number of draws run by the Steelers: 0

Glace
12-11-2009, 12:49 AM
Yeah, because Matt Millen is an NFL genius. Look at his success with the Lions.

The Brown's were in the backfield almost as fast as Ben took the handoff a few times.

Raw Steel
12-11-2009, 12:50 AM
Just because he sucked as a GM doesn't mean he was wrong about last night. He was dead on.

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 12:51 AM
did they run any screens ?

Raw Steel
12-11-2009, 12:52 AM
did they run any screens ?

Nope. Those would work too.

MACH1
12-11-2009, 12:55 AM
did they run any screens ?

Why, when you can just chuck it down field every time.

tony hipchest
12-11-2009, 12:57 AM
Why, when you can just chuck it down field every time.speaking of chuck....

:puke:

SteelMusic
12-11-2009, 12:58 AM
What about that damn stretch run play that takes ten years to develop? When we do run it its the same damn play every time. BA has no creativity and has got to go. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the O keeps getting worse and worse because of no adjustments. BINGO!!! It's no coincidence that we have lost the last 5 in a row. With all the talent we have on Offense we should be blowing teams out and allowing our D to play with a lead. I hope we get rid of is as like tomorrow to prove a damn point. Season is over get rid of the clown.

SteelMusic
12-11-2009, 01:06 AM
Also, did anyone notice how our O Line looked pretty good at the beginning of the year and just got worse and worse. It may be because defenses are just pinning their ears back against us and BA's predictable pass happy play calling. That and Ben does hold the ball forever and a day because no one mandated that he get rid of the damn thing. That can be done by coaching him up or by putting more slants in the playbook.

psusteelers4life
12-11-2009, 01:11 AM
The kicker of tonight 4th and 6 need a 1st down and the play called had the receivers run 10 to 12 yd routes????there was no one short on that play to check down to in the middle they were all deep except Heath miller and he was in the same area of mike wallace and there was one corner covering both of them. That right there shows the horse blinders that BA had on in the game.

WH
12-11-2009, 01:36 AM
Good to see some people are finally seeing the light of how bad our Offensive Coordinator is.

Last week when the Steelers put up more points in 5 minutes than they did this week in 60.....was it Ben calling the plays at the line? I'm just curious if that was documented anywhere.

And on a bright note....The Penguins beat the Habs 3-2 last night, that made me smile.

ricardisimo
12-11-2009, 01:49 AM
I'm sticking with exactly the same assessment I had ten weeks ago: Bruce Arians is probably a fine Offensive Coordinator - and up until tonight, the numbers leaned in his favor in this regard. However, he has absolutely no business calling plays.

It's as though he's a pubescent teen with no self-control, and a stoner pubescent teen at that... "Dude... Like, wouldn't it be cool if, like, we went deep down the right sideline on, like, every single first-and-ten? That would be awesome!" He appears to be having fun calling the plays, and has said so himself on numerous occasions. Well, maybe it's time this were work, and not fun.

The only slight change in my opinion is that I used to think he was a slightly better play-caller than game manager, where I thought he was atrocious. I think one of them has gained on the other now, and not for the better in either regard.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 02:06 AM
Look.

Arians has been scapegoated on this board for everything...mainly because "OMG, like, this is pittsburgh and we gotta run the ball."

There has been VERY little balance in assessing Arians.

At the beginning of this year, I was talking with someone (I forget whom.. SR maybe? Someone who didn't like Arians) and we agreed on one thing. THere is a tell that gives away just about every running play.

I think I have found it. Hines Ward. In an Arians called game, if Ward comes in tight to the line, you can almost bet your bottom dollar its going to be a run. If Ward lines out wide, and there is no FB, you can almost bet it will be a pass.

I have come to the conclusion that Arians is either very hot, or very cold. After the last two years, I was absolutely fine with him, especially because of all the things he had to work through.

However now, after seeing this game, after seeing empty sets time and time again on 3rd and shorts, when our run game was actually working... After seeing the predictability in the tell of Hines Ward and the line, I have to say that I wouldn't be sad at all to see him leave.

I never had love for him, but never had any heartache with him either (except one game last year). That, I beleive, has now changed.

I WILL give him credit where it is due with Ben, with our passing game the last couple of years, and with our offense being able to move up and down the field to win games last year.

However, I do think his journey should be at an end in the B and G. and our ST's coach should have been at an end a couple years ago (never hired).

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 02:34 AM
However now, after seeing this game, after seeing empty sets time and time again on 3rd and shorts, when our run game was actually working.
preacher he's been doing that ALL year long ... not to mention all the times he's went empty set in the redzone . IMO i don't EVER see where going empty inside the 10 is a good idea...:noidea:

Preacher
12-11-2009, 02:40 AM
preacher he's been doing that ALL year long ... not to mention all the times he's went empty set in the redzone . IMO i don't EVER see where going empty inside the 10 is a good idea...:noidea:

I have no problem with going empty set if we have doubts about the run game. I have no problem going empty sets if our pass game is going well. I have no problem with it if we are more consistent that way than we are running the ball.

But tonight, running was MUCH more consistent than passing, we were in a bad wind, AND, every time we line up that way, Ben got sacked.

So no, this is was MUCH worse than what has happened before. Opposing teams have learned that our O line can block, but if they send an overload, chances are they will catch us. THEN, they matched that up with places that we go empty set.

THAT is where I started having problems. When I AM SCREAMING For a FB, you KNOW it is obvious. :chuckle:

ricardisimo
12-11-2009, 02:57 AM
I didn't watch the game, mostly online and some radio. Could someone break down for me about how often they went empty-backfield, how often did it work. The play-by-play on nfl.com tells you some stuff, like when it's no-huddle, but not the basic offensive formations, obviously.

Thanks.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 02:59 AM
I didn't watch the game, mostly online and some radio. Could someone break down for me about how often they went empty-backfield, how often did it work. The play-by-play on nfl.com tells you some stuff, like when it's no-huddle, but not the basic offensive formations, obviously.

Thanks.

Basically, they did it on third down with about 1 or 2 yards to go about 3 times...maybe four times. They also did it with an upback, which some people are confusing as an emptyset (lest they were in the gameday thread).

Everytime, Ben was sacked.

ricardisimo
12-11-2009, 04:10 AM
Thank you very much. One more question for those who watched the game: What was with that first time-out in the 4th, the one that was followed by Ben getting sacked? Did they see that the Browns defenders were out of position... and were not going to get the sack? What was the actual rationale there?

Rick5895
12-11-2009, 04:23 AM
I have said this before on other threads, last years SB win masked problems this team had on O. We have an athletic QB who breaks pockets and can throw to recievers who run a scramble drill. There is no continuity with a B.A run offense. As others have said, I have never understood the desire to go empty inside the red zone. Or even shotgun for that matter. The threat of the run needs to be in place , it holds LB's.
I don't think Arians is a good O.C. He is probably the worst we have had since Joe Walton, I would like to see him replaced however, what I saw in this game and the last few is a complete lack of effort by the players except for a few they seemed to have quit. That is not Arians fault.
Tomlin and the F.O need to take a step back when this season is over with and make the changes necessary, including some of these players. 3 games left will show us which players want to be Steelers and which don't.

stillers4me
12-11-2009, 06:24 AM
what I saw in this game and the last few is a complete lack of effort by the players except for a few they seemed to have quit. That is not Arians fault.

How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

mesaSteeler
12-11-2009, 06:48 AM
How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

I completely agree. The players don't believe in Arians any more.

HometownGal
12-11-2009, 07:00 AM
I completely agree. The players don't believe in Arians any more.

You may be right, but I think the players don't believe much in themselves anymore, either.

I've always supported Arians and up until last night, didn't feel he did a bad job as our OC, but even I was pissed at the majority of his playcalling last night. If the Steelers feel it is time for him to move on, then so be it. You won't hear anymore flack from me.

plenewken
12-11-2009, 07:07 AM
You may be right, but I think the players don't believe much in themselves anymore, either.

I've always supported Arians and up until last night, didn't feel he did a bad job as our OC, but even I was pissed at the majority of his playcalling last night. If the Steelers feel it is time for him to move on, then so be it. You won't hear anymore flack from me.

And from me either. I do believe the players know that the majority of his calls are doomed from the get go.
It's not a matter of poor execution when the call doesn't make sense.

SteelStang
12-11-2009, 07:08 AM
Ive been extremely critical of BA all year, but I'm still not going to sit here and do a bunch of 'I told you so's.'

No creativity whatsoever.

Completely unable to adjust on the fly.

Why was BR not in the shotgun more often on our last drive?

He was beaten by the very thing he has resisted. The Wildcat. Oh, that's just a fad though that will be gone by next year:rolleyes:


He was outcoached period. End of report.

HometownGal
12-11-2009, 07:10 AM
And from me either. I do believe the players know that the majority of his calls are doomed from the get go.
It's not a matter of poor execution when the call doesn't make sense.

I think BA is a part of the problem with the O, but I still maintain that the players don't do their part either. Ben does have the option of the audible or the no-huddle which he can pretty much use at will, but for whatever reason, he hasn't been using either.

Super Bowl hangover? Sadly to me it looked more like a Super Bowl coma.

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 07:12 AM
How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

As a player, you don't quit...period. If the play call looks bad, do the players (or at least certain ones) not have the opportunity to call an Audible? Last I checked they are supposed to be professionals. You play 60 minutes a game win or lose...because that's what you get PAID (handsomely) to do.

WH
12-11-2009, 07:48 AM
Super Bowl hangover? Sadly to me it looked more like a Super Bowl coma.

well said.

Steeldude
12-11-2009, 07:56 AM
come on people. it's not arians' fault. he isn't on the field.:toofunny:

what's not to like from the "pick-a-play-out-of-a-hat / al davis offense"? :thumbsup:

tmacsteelerfan
12-11-2009, 08:15 AM
That's how Bruce Arians thinks. Find something that works then stop doing it.
Hit the nail with the hammer on that one.

Rick5895
12-11-2009, 08:17 AM
How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

Arians doesn't do a good job, we know that, but the poor effort level of the players is not the fault of any coach, even Arians. Arians must go, but so should some of these players that have mailed it in the last couple of games.

steelax04
12-11-2009, 08:45 AM
I was done with the 3rd and short call on the first drive...

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 08:55 AM
I no longer give a shit about Arians. Fire him, don't fire him, whatever. It won't matter who the new OC is, everyone will hate him, too. It's always been like this in Pittsburgh, and always will be like this in Pittsburgh. It's the only place in the universe where coaches get torn to shreds AFTER they win the super bowl.

If we hire a new OC, it'll be probably be 2011 before we are a team capable of doing damage in the playoffs. A new system takes time to implement...

steelpride12
12-11-2009, 09:08 AM
There are so many problems with this team right now he is just one of them few. Our Special teams coach, Arians, the teams attitude.

SteelerEmpire
12-11-2009, 09:09 AM
I got a feeling there is gonna be a lot of news about the Steelers in the off-season... Oh yea, our off season starts in about 3 weeks on January 4th.... enjoy Steeler football while you can....

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 09:22 AM
The play calling had nothing to do with 8 sacks, a handful of poor throws and I don't know how many dropped passes. These players still need to execute.

T.Richardson
12-11-2009, 09:27 AM
It all comes down to execution. But I am starting to get frustrated with the playcalling. But im not ready to call for his firing just yet...

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 09:30 AM
It all comes down to execution. But I am starting to get frustrated with the playcalling. But im not ready to call for his firing just yet...

Nor I. His play calling was good enough to win a Lombardi last year and a change of OC does nothing but set back the offense the next year or two.

He can't control ST's or the defense and as we've both stated: Execution.

stb_steeler
12-11-2009, 09:32 AM
I don't give a shit what Ben wants, or what anyone else says.

Bruce Arians is a disease. I'm sick and tired of his bullshit. If Tomlin is really serious about righting this ship next season, he gives this clown the boot. If he keeps him, then Tomlin's time here won't be much longer.

His schemes are predictable, he can't adjust, he doesn't play to his players' strengths, he abandons what works, the red zone woes have been a constant problem since he was here, and overall tries to fit square pegs into round holes. If it weren't for Ben saving his ass week after week last year, this jackass would've been out already. We won XLIII in spite of Arians. Not because of him. Thanks to Arians' chickenshit offensive philosophy, Ben is impatient and is geared to throw it deep every goddamned play.

Hines Ward said teams have been gearing up to stop the Deep Ball since the Vikes game. How does Bruce respond? More empty backfield! Chuck it deep! Chuck it deep!

I agree, it seems theres no answer and the play calls are seemingly the same thing time after time. We dont come up with anything to throw off the defenses any more.

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 09:33 AM
That was the worst performance by a Steelers offensive line I've ever witnessed. It was FAR worse than the Eagles game last year, because the Eagles actually had some talented defenders on that squad. The Browns D is heavily injured and is largely made up of 3rd string Jets cast-offs. To ignore that HUGE problem and head straight towards the OC is a little....um....strange.

Until the lats drive where we HAD to pass because we desperately needed points, the offense was just about balanced. The fact that we had only run about 40 plays leading up to the middle of the 4th quarter is a whole other HUGE problem in and of itself.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 09:36 AM
That was the worst performance by a Steelers offensive line I've ever witnessed. It was FAR worse than the Eagles game last year, because the Eagles actually had some talented defenders on that squad. The Browns D is heavily injured and is largely made up of 3rd string Jets cast-offs.

Agreed, but two of those sacks were...lucky? One Ben tried to run and was dropped for a 6" loss and another he tried to Run and the LB made a nice shoe-string tackle. Still, 6-8 sacks is pathetic.

Steeler
12-11-2009, 09:37 AM
How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

Excellent point!! You pegged it.

T.Richardson
12-11-2009, 09:37 AM
Nor I. His play calling was good enough to win a Lombardi last year and a change of OC does nothing but set back the offense the next year or two.

He can't control ST's or the defense and as we've both stated: Execution.

Yep, I agree, his playcallin was good enough to win a superbowl, so in not giving up on Arians offense.

SCSTILLER
12-11-2009, 09:37 AM
Yes, execution has some to do with it, but poor coaching and poor game calling/planning will kill an offense dead. The OC needs to put his players in the best position to succeed, and that means calling the right plays and keeping the defense off balance. It is bad that when me and my friends will call whether it is a run or pass right out of the huddle, and when they line up for the run which way it is going. Now, if some fans can figure this out with a pretty high accuracy rate, imagine what the defenses and d coordinators know. He is too predictable and not good at making adjustments in a game until it is too late.

I know there are other problems with our team, but only 6 points against the flipping Browns, come on.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 09:48 AM
How are players supposed to successfully play when they know a a certain play call is doomed from the start and they know it? I think they are as frustrated with it all as the fans are.

Excellent point!! You pegged it.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 09:52 AM
Yes, execution has some to do with it, but poor coaching and poor game calling/planning will kill an offense dead. The OC needs to put his players in the best position to succeed, and that means calling the right plays and keeping the defense off balance. It is bad that when me and my friends will call whether it is a run or pass right out of the huddle, and when they line up for the run which way it is going. Now, if some fans can figure this out with a pretty high accuracy rate, imagine what the defenses and d coordinators know. He is too predictable and not good at making adjustments in a game until it is too late.

I know there are other problems with our team, but only 6 points against the flipping Browns, come on.

And Arians didn't do that? Execution has EVERYTHING to do with it. The players sucked last night; plain and simple. Arians called some plays that, if executed properly (and by executed I mean "Blocking -or- Better Thrown Balls -or- Catching"), we're in position to score.

Picking on Arians is too easy. Is he the greatest OC in the NFL? Probably not, but it will ALWAYS come down to execution.

X-Terminator
12-11-2009, 10:05 AM
And Arians didn't do that? Execution has EVERYTHING to do with it. The players sucked last night; plain and simple. Arians called some plays that, if executed properly (and by executed I mean "Blocking -or- Better Thrown Balls -or- Catching"), we're in position to score.

Picking on Arians is too easy. Is he the greatest OC in the NFL? Probably not, but it will ALWAYS come down to execution.

It may come down to execution, but I agree with SCSTILLER - you still have to put players in positions to succeed. Arians did not do a good job of that last night at all. It is also the MAJOR reason why they have struggled so much in the red zone and on 3rd and short the past 2 seasons. Empty sets on 3rd and short and in the red zone is NOT putting your players in position to succeed. Not to mention the fact that they had no business attempting 40 passes in 25 MPH sustained winds with 40 MPH gusts. It's a recipe for failure. His play calling finally came back to bite him in the ass big time.

At this point, if he's canned, I wouldn't care less. More than likely they will promote Ken Anderson to OC if he is fired, so it's not like everything will have to start from scratch.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:14 AM
It may come down to execution, but I agree with SCSTILLER - you still have to put players in positions to succeed. Arians did not do a good job of that last night at all. It is also the MAJOR reason why they have struggled so much in the red zone and on 3rd and short the past 2 seasons. Empty sets on 3rd and short and in the red zone is NOT putting your players in position to succeed. Not to mention the fact that they had no business attempting 40 passes in 25 MPH sustained winds with 40 MPH gusts. It's a recipe for failure. His play calling finally came back to bite him in the ass big time.

At this point, if he's canned, I wouldn't care less. More than likely they will promote Ken Anderson to OC if he is fired, so it's not like everything will have to start from scratch.

They weren't running the ball all that great either. We have 3 #1 WR's and an excellent TE. If throwing to them isn't playing to our strengths then I don't know what is. Again, he called the right plays in the 3rd and longs, but the O didn't execute. If our WR's aren't going to catch,or our QB is going throw bad passes or our O-Line not going to block, then it doesn't matter who the OC is or what plays are called. In fact, It's no secret that Arians structures his game plan around what plays his $100 Million QB is comfy with. Is that not a smart tactic?

X-Terminator
12-11-2009, 10:19 AM
They weren't running the ball all that great either. We have 3 #1 WR's and an excellent TE. If throwing to them isn't playing to our strengths then I don't know what is. Again, he called the right plays in the 3rd and longs, but the O didn't execute. If our WR's aren't going to catch,or our QB is going throw bad passes or our O-Line not going to block, then it doesn't matter who the OC is or what plays are called. In fact, It's no secret that Arians structures his game plan around what plays his $100 Million QB is comfy with. Is that not a smart tactic?

Yes, but throwing to them in those conditions last night? What about the telegraphing of plays? Empty sets just screams pass. Preacher brought up another point about how the opposing defense gets tipped off to what play they're going to run simply by looking at where Hines lines up. The poor play calling in the red zone. Not using Mendenhall enough (had just 15 carries in 3 quarters!). And the beat goes on.

Sorry man, but I just can't defend him any longer. The reason I did was because the offense had success - the overall numbers do not lie - and, yes, the players do have to execute. But the man was out-coached by Rob Ryan and his offense outplayed by a bunch of scrubs the Browns just signed off the street. He coached himself out of a job last night, plain and simple.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Yes, but throwing to them in those conditions last night? What about the telegraphing of plays? Empty sets just screams pass. Preacher brought up another point about how the opposing defense gets tipped off to what play they're going to run simply by looking at where Hines lines up. The poor play calling in the red zone. Not using Mendenhall enough (had just 15 carries in 3 quarters!). And the beat goes on.

Sorry man, but I just can't defend him any longer. The reason I did was because the offense had success - the overall numbers do not lie - and, yes, the players do have to execute. But the man was out-coached by Rob Ryan and his offense outplayed by a bunch of scrubs the Browns just signed off the street. He coached himself out of a job last night, plain and simple.

Yea, I did hear a Ravens fan point out that Hines is giving up the play call. Still, if you could pick any OC you wanted, I don't think it changes the outcome last night, and I doubt our record is much better either.

Both our players and Arians have proven they can win it all. What I saw last night (and all season) is piss-poor execution. I can count on one hand how many times I was miffed about a play call. But I'd need a calculator to total my disappointment in a lineman, throw, WR, DB, Kicker, etc..

MACH1
12-11-2009, 10:25 AM
The browns used the same defensive set all night and yet airians was not able to call plays that would take advantage of that. You can say all you want about execution, but when the O isn't flexible enough to take advantage of something so simple as making an adjustment to it. It all falls back on the OC.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:30 AM
The browns used the same defensive set all night and yet airians was not able to call plays that would take advantage of that. You can say all you want about execution, but when the O isn't flexible enough to take advantage of something so simple as making an adjustment to it. It all falls back on the OC.

AGAIN! How may Sacks???? How Many Dropped passes???? How many poor decisions/throws???? And were we running all over them? No.

EXECUTION, EXECUTION, EXECUTION! :banging:

FacemeIke
12-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Football 101: The advantage of getting to third and short is that the defense has to worry about both the pass and the run.

Exception to Rule: If the opposing OC is Bruce Arians then the offense will go 5 wide with an empty backfield, thereby taking any guesswork out of what they are doing, and forcing their average Oline to stop the pass rush without support from a blocking back in the backfield.


**This was actually taken word for word out of Football for Dummies. See your local Borders if you don't believe me.

Venom
12-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Last night I couldn't stop screaming at the tv screen due to Arians. What a terrible game plan he had . Shot gun when he needed 3 yards or less on 3rd down ??? The last play of the game on 4th down and short, Big Ben could of ran for the first down .There was no one in front of him for atleast 6 yards. Why the hell did he throw the ball ? Ugh . Me Venting !!

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:39 AM
Football 101: The advantage of getting to third and short is that the defense has to worry about both the pass and the run.



Worry about whose run? Ours? Don't we both wish the opposition had to worry about that. We've won these last two years by passing, not running and while I agree with you about the philosophy, it no longer applies in Pittsburgh.

Now if you want to argue that Arians needs to go because we need to get back to a power running game (and never should have let Dan Kreider go) I'd be inclined to agree.

But keep in mind: We won our 6th lombardi with him and his system and replacing him will delay any success for another year or two.

steelerjim58
12-11-2009, 10:41 AM
I think BA is a part of the problem with the O, but I still maintain that the players don't do their part either. Ben does have the option of the audible or the no-huddle which he can pretty much use at will, but for whatever reason, he hasn't been using either.

Super Bowl hangover? Sadly to me it looked more like a Super Bowl coma.

I'm curious where you get that Ben has the option to go no huddle at his choosing.

SteelersinCA
12-11-2009, 10:42 AM
I have avoided supporting the "Fire Arians" threads, however after last night and reviewing what has transpired this season, I now believe Arians must go. The game plans have been terrible.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:43 AM
I'm curious where you get that Ben has the option to go no huddle at his choosing.

Where have you been? Arians always let's Ben do what he's comfortable with..., and it HAS paid dividends in the past.

X-Terminator
12-11-2009, 10:44 AM
I'm curious where you get that Ben has the option to go no huddle at his choosing.

Ben has gone to the no-huddle at his choosing quite a few times, as a matter of fact. He's said so in interviews.

steelerjim58
12-11-2009, 10:47 AM
Where have you been? Arians always let's Ben do what he's comfortable with..., and it HAS paid dividends in the past.

Doesn't anawer the question but thanks anyway. And for what it's worth Arians does have to go. Chan Gailey.

Steeldude
12-11-2009, 10:49 AM
It won't matter who the new OC is, everyone will hate him, too

and you will love him no matter the results. we all get it. you believe the coaches can do no wrong. you agree with whatever they do. you have made it abundantly clear.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Doesn't anawer the question but thanks anyway. And for what it's worth Arians does have to go. Chan Gailey.

Right... Chan Gailey would have made them protect Ben, gotten better throws out of him and made sure those balls were caught.

Why don't you go ask non-Steelers fans what they saw last night. I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that you hear more about execution than play calling.

MACH1
12-11-2009, 10:56 AM
Worry about whose run? Ours? Don't we both wish the opposition had to worry about that. We've won these last two years by passing, not running and while I agree with you about the philosophy, it no longer applies in Pittsburgh.

Now if you want to argue that Arians needs to go because we need to get back to a power running game (and never should have let Dan Kreider go) I'd be inclined to agree.

But keep in mind: We won our 6th lombardi with him and his system and replacing him will delay any success for another year or two.


So will keeping him.

If we do keep him we shouldn't have worry about drafting a RB cause we don't use them anymore, it's our philosophy, it no longer applies in Pittsburgh.

FacemeIke
12-11-2009, 11:01 AM
What I see is an offense with a top 5 QB, 3 quality RBs, 2 superbowl mvp WRs, a speedster in the slot, a top 2 TE and an average Oline failing miserably. Someone has to take the blame for that talent not producing, and that person (I believe rightfully so) will be Arians.

Arians has proven he cant get the talent out of this cast of players, so someone needs to be brought in who will, because these same 11 will be starting next year on O for this team (minus Essex for Stapleton coming back from injury).

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:03 AM
So will keeping him.

If we do keep him we shouldn't have worry about drafting a RB cause we don't use them anymore, it's our philosophy, it no longer applies in Pittsburgh.

Well again, he took the (crap-ass, no name) Brownies into the playoffs in 2002 and helped win us a Trophy last year.

Offensively, we don't really need anyone (maybe an OL upgrade or future talent/depth), but we need to draft on defense anyway.

For the record, I miss the hard-nosed, "we're gonna run so stop us if you can" Steelers game too. But, we still have the players/coaches to win. They just aren't getting it done. Plus a few key injuries have hurt us.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:04 AM
What I see is an offense with a top 5 QB, 3 quality RBs, 2 superbowl mvp WRs, a speedster in the slot, a top 2 TE and an average Oline failing miserably. Someone has to take the blame for that talent not producing, and that person (I believe rightfully so) will be Arians.

Arians has proven he cant get the talent out of this cast of players, so someone needs to be brought in who will, because these same 11 will be starting next year on O for this team (minus Essex for Stapleton coming back from injury).

Really?

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Super+Bowl+XLIII+1H5d5n8OleKl.jpg

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 11:05 AM
Chan Gailey was HHHHHHHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt tttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed as the Steelers OC. He was actually pretty successful as OC, but there was a TON of anti-Gailey hate back in the day.

It all comes back to this...even if we fire Arians and go back to power football, the new OC will be hated. Probably sooner rather than later because running the ball is conservative, and we've had a taste of success with Ben throwing a lot. As usual, if we aren't going 19-0 and beating teams by 50 points in the Super bowl every year, the cries for the head of the OC will ring loud and clear throughout Steelers message boards.

Bruce Arians.
Ken Whisenhunt
Kevin Gilbride
Chan Gailey

I don't care which present or past OC it is, they were all WIDELY hated, mocked and despised by Steelers fans. Whoever the new guy is will be too...because every fan who knows even a scrap about football thinks they know how to run an NFL offense based on 20/20 hindsight and an overly simplistic view of the complexity of an NFL offense.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Chan Gailey was HHHHHHHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt tttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed as the Steelers OC. He was actually pretty successful as OC, but there was a TON of anti-Gailey hate back in the day.



lol. Kordell liked him. :chuckle:

MACH1
12-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Well again, he took the (crap-ass, no name) Brownies into the playoffs in 2002 and helped win us a Trophy last year.

Offensively, we don't really need anyone (maybe an OL upgrade or future talent/depth), but we need to draft on defense anyway.

For the record, I miss the hard-nosed, "we're gonna run so stop us if you can" Steelers game too. But, we still have the players/coaches to win. They just aren't getting it done. Plus a few key injuries have hurt us.

Injuries have hurt us badly. What bothers me the most is we do have a pretty good running game, but for some reason air-ians seems to go away from it especially on short yardage plays. And if I see another 3rd n 1 with shotgun empty backfield I'm gonna pull my hair out.

devilsdancefloor
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
I no longer give a shit about Arians. Fire him, don't fire him, whatever. It won't matter who the new OC is, everyone will hate him, too. It's always been like this in Pittsburgh, and always will be like this in Pittsburgh. It's the only place in the universe where coaches get torn to shreds AFTER they win the super bowl.

If we hire a new OC, it'll be probably be 2011 before we are a team capable of doing damage in the playoffs. A new system takes time to implement...

So you are saying do nothing and maybe in a few years BA can turn it around for us to make the playoffs? I have defended him and defended him ,b ut i cant anymore. It isnt about run pass it is about when we run and pass and honestly he has al davis syndrome "lookie lookie i gots me a fast WR throw it deep". i think he called great denver game, but man it time to be shown the door.

Akeman62
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Yes I too am done w/ Arians getting owened...what happened to the special plays that have taken the "O" down the field, and stumped everyone on the defensive side of the field??? Cardinals seem to be doing well........ who do they have on their Coaching staff? Don't get me wrong, but Big Ben's leadership skills need some tuning.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:11 AM
So you are saying do nothing and maybe in a few years BA can turn it around for us to make the playoffs? I have defended him and defended him ,b ut i cant anymore. It isnt about run pass it is about when we run and pass and honestly he has al davis syndrome "lookie lookie i gots me a fast WR throw it deep". i think he called great denver game, but man it time to be shown the door.

Turn it around?
How long has been the OC? He's gotten two playoff appearances in three years and one of them led to a SB win. Who's record is better?

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 11:12 AM
So you are saying do nothing and maybe in a few years BA can turn it around for us to make the playoffs? I have defended him and defended him ,b ut i cant anymore. It isnt about run pass it is about when we run and pass and honestly he has al davis syndrome "lookie lookie i gots me a fast WR throw it deep". i think he called great denver game, but man it time to be shown the door.

I'm saying go ahead and make the change...but it'll take a year or two before the system is clicking.

And THEN the Steelers fans will just turn on whichever poor soul gets hired to replace BA. He'll pass too much (BA), or run too much (Chan Gailey). Won't be creative enough (BA), or be too creative (Whisenhunt).

My point is, this is all the same garbage year in and year out, just replace the name of the guy getting torn up...

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:13 AM
Yes I too am done w/ Arians getting owened...what happened to the special plays that have taken the "O" down the field, and stumped everyone on the defensive side of the field??? Cardinals seem to be doing well........ who do they have on their Coaching staff? Don't get me wrong, but Big Ben's leadership skills need some tuning.

Ben either got sacked, underthrew the WR or the pass was dropped. But on the plus side, I think this was Ben's first pick free game of the year.

FacemeIke
12-11-2009, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=TheWarDen86;728043]Really?

QUOTE]

Yes. The fact that we won a ring with him doesnt change the fact that he gets the minimum out of all the talent we have on offense. A good OC would have a field day with the talent we have.

rjb2112
12-11-2009, 11:16 AM
Can't agree with the talk that "we won the trophy with him last year." It was an elite, possibly once-in-a-generation defense that carried the team. Even with that being the case, Ben still had to bail them out several times at the end of games, even calling the plays himself from what we have heard.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:21 AM
[QUOTE=TheWarDen86;728043]Really?

QUOTE]

Yes. The fact that we won a ring with him doesnt change the fact that he gets the minimum out of all the talent we have on offense. A good OC would have a field day with the talent we have.

You need to re-read and digest what you just said. Are you one of those who expects to win the SB every year? Or that we need big name players/coaches at EVERY position?

Can't agree with the talk that "we won the trophy with him last year." It was an elite, possibly once-in-a-generation defense that carried the team. Even with that being the case, Ben still had to bail them out several times at the end of games, even calling the plays himself from what we have heard.

That Super Bowl was won with an Arians coached, Ben led offense.

fansince'76
12-11-2009, 11:22 AM
Yes I too am done w/ Arians getting owened...what happened to the special plays that have taken the "O" down the field, and stumped everyone on the defensive side of the field??? Cardinals seem to be doing well........ who do they have on their Coaching staff?

Oh, you mean this guy?

Whisenhunt blows it again

Another week... another Steeler loss... another bad day for our Offensive play caller.

Not offensive, as in offensive side of the ball, but offensive, as in unpleasant sensations.

Exhibit A
Game starts - 1st & 10 - whattaya know throwin on 1st down... incomplete... followed up by the patented 2nd & 10 div up the middle... no gain... creating a 3rd & long situation... incomplete pass.... and we start this must win game with a very whisenhunt-like 3 and out.

This is exactly what I have been clammoring about on this site for weeks.... using an uncomfortable and obviously lacking-in-confidence QB improperly. I am not one of these people chanting Charlie Batch's name. Ben is our QB period. But why must we call plays that only work if the QB is sharp and precise in his reads and delivery. Ben has never BEEN ASKED to carried us offfensively. I emphasized been asked, because it is one thing to come out and make reactionary reads and plays as a complimentary player and it is a completely different story to be an offenses primary bread winner. Ben has proven so far this year he isnt ready to carry that kinda load.

Exhibit B
Willie Parker got only 4 carries after halftime. As halftime approached NBC posted the typical Cohwer "with a lead at halftime stat" and they come out in the second half and give just 4 carries to the only guy to score a TD for us since September 7!!!!!!!

Willie averaged over 4 yds/carry. So its not as if we couldnt run the ball at all. Furthermore, ask yourself....were our lineman doing a better job of run blocking or pass blocking. Ray Charles could see that Ben was under constant pressure on most pass plays.

Besides all of this was the fact that we had the leadhalfway through the 3rd qtr. Play Steeler football!!!!! Run the pill, control the clock, keep the other tems O off the field, gain confidence one first down at a time. Let our D rest. Again, play Steeler football.

A lot of folks realized that when these two teams (and more importantly these two coaches) get together that it will be a defensive struggle. Both coaches get accused of sitting or turtling the football. On Sunday night, Marty and his O coordinator did a far better job of protecting his QB with a far safer gameplan and Phillip Rivers beat Big Ben... Not because he executed perfectly, but because his coaches didnt ask him to carry the load for 4 quarters........ Whisenhunt has asked Ben to carry the load the lastt 12 quarters he has played

How has that worked out for ya, Mr. Whisenhunt?????

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=160042#post160042

Sounds familiar....

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:26 AM
Oh, you mean this guy?



http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=160042#post160042

Sounds familiar....

:rofl:

:drink:

FacemeIke
12-11-2009, 11:28 AM
[QUOTE=FacemeIke;728056]

You need to re-read and digest what you just said. Are you one of those who expects to win the SB every year? Or that we need big name players/coaches at EVERY position?



That Super Bowl was won with an Arians coached, Ben led offense.

what? I think you're confused. I said we have a lot of talent on offense and Arians doesn't use that talent fully. For example, where a good OC could get 100% out of this O Arians can only get 50%. Thats what I said, I never even came close to saying anything else.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:30 AM
[QUOTE=TheWarDen86;728061]

what? I said we have a lot of talent on offense and Arians doesn't use that talent fully. For example, where a good OC could get 100% out of this O Arians can only get 50%. Thats what I said, I never even came close to saying anything else.

You completely discounted us winning the SB....WITH Arians.

And if you want to replace anyone, you can start with your namesake.

plenewken
12-11-2009, 11:34 AM
Having an unbalanced offense doesn't seem to be an issue for the Colts.

They're 2nd in passing and 32nd in running!!! No less

How come their opponents can't defend against their passing schemes?

The Steelers are far away from such a flawless execution. Is it just me or does Ben look like he's on the verge of being either sacked, tipped or intercepted 90% of the time?

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 11:34 AM
The only reason there aren't more posts like that about other Steelers OC's is the chronological age of this board. It's not OLD enough to capture the hate filed comments about more than two Steelers OC's.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:38 AM
Having an unbalanced offense doesn't seem to be an issue for the Colts.

They're 2nd in passing and 32nd in running!!! No less

How come their opponents can't defend against their passing schemes?

The Steelers are far away from such a flawless execution. Is it just me or does Ben look like he's on the verge of being either sacked, tipped or intercepted 90% of the time?

Yep. First of all, let me say that Ben is an awesome, highly underrated QB/football player. We are damn lucky to have him. But, he seems off these last two weeks. I understand that this is debatable considering the quick scoring we did last week, but I base it on just a few plays from that Raiders' game (pick in the EZ) and last night's performance.

plenewken
12-11-2009, 11:44 AM
Yep. First of all, let me say that Ben is an awesome, highly underrated QB/football player. We are damn lucky to have him. But, he seems off these last two weeks. I understand that this is debatable considering the quick scoring we did last week, but I base it on just a few plays from that Raiders' game (pick in the EZ) and last night's performance.

Oh, I'm not putting the blame on Ben alone. I've seen him play great more often than none. Granted he's not Peyton but how come our offensive plays almost systematically look laborious, when Peyton (or Brees or Brady) makes things look much easier?

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Oh, I'm not putting the blame on Ben alone. I've seen him play great more often than none. Granted he's not Peyton but how come our offensive plays almost systematically look laborious, when Peyton (or Brees or Brady) makes things look much easier?

No, no; I'm with ya. It's more than Ben. It seems that when one guy executes, another one doesn't. over and over and over.

Dino 6 Rings
12-11-2009, 12:00 PM
I think the most frustrating part...is the 3rd and 1 shotgun formations...that lead to Sacks...its execution sure on those plays and missed blitz pickups...so is that on the Oline coach? the RB Coach? the WR Coach for not having his guys adjust to the blitzes? Is it on the QB Coach? or is it on the OC and the QB for failing in those situations.

Its just so sad that on our first possession we get 9 yards on 2 carries, then on 3rd and 1...we get sacked in a shotgun spread formation...that's so freaking frustrating...

plenewken
12-11-2009, 12:01 PM
No, no; I'm with ya. It's more than Ben. It seems that when one guy executes, another one doesn't. over and over and over.

I also think Ben is completely out of shape, both physically and mentally. Mentally, I don't know how much his NV lawsuit weighs on him but he doesn't look upbeat. Physically, he's way too heavy and far less mobile and much slower than he used to be.
Just my observation..

BIGWILL90
12-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Prolly wont happen but....Fire Arians, Hire Weis

Nadroj 20
12-11-2009, 12:22 PM
Prolly wont happen but....Fire Arians, Hire Weis

Please no :banging:

solardave
12-11-2009, 12:26 PM
If you are lucky, another team with a Head Coaching Vacancy in the offseason will want to hire our offensive mastermind to run their team. :thumbsup:
We can only hope. I for one wolud not stand in his way. I'm all for BA moving up in the world,just not here anymore.

BIGWILL90
12-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Please no :banging:

:chuckle: just spitting out sarcasm!

Nadroj 20
12-11-2009, 12:35 PM
:chuckle: just spitting out sarcasm!

:toofunny: ok good :thumbsup:

xbroughneck
12-11-2009, 12:56 PM
I was about to change my signature....

....and then we get what we got last night.


The Steelers offense is kinda soft, and it shouldn't be with our personel.

Jmat
12-11-2009, 01:07 PM
As someone that hasn't had a problem with Bruce Arians up to last night I will now say that the offensive game plan and play calls were simply atrocious.
When on the first Steelers O series on 3rd and 1 and Ben went into the shotgun I was having fits. My sister and nephew haven't seem me that pissed off in a long long time.
Why oh why would you not run the ball after gaining 9 yards on two runs on the first two downs.

That play told me right then that we were in trouble.
You can now add me to the list of people that want Arians gone.
Ben looked like garbage, the Oline looked like garbage, the receivers never got open.

Where was Mike Tomlin when Arians was calling these plays?

Just effin wow.

The Steelers have gone from defending Super Bowl Champs to the current worst team in the NFL in five weeks time.

johnnyribcage
12-11-2009, 01:20 PM
I am blown away by how many people are saying they haven't had a problem with BA until last night -- what's with the empty sets, horrid third down, etc... Guys, this has been BA's MO for his entire tenure here. Nothing about last night was new or shocking in any way whatsoever - it was just another typical game called the BA Way. He's been all about alternating dink&dunk with the long ball and abandoning the run whether it works or not for as long as I can remember. Last year was the same deal, I just think the players were hungrier and somehow willed their way through bad play calling. Pittsburgh was dominated several times last year but kept coming up on the right side of bounces and had just enough heart to overcome. This year, a little adversity and now we see the true colors. They need to stop buffing each other's rings and take a long hard look in the mirror.

BA, Z, and ST coach need to go STAT, the entire team needs a kick in the ass, and Tomlin needs to crap or get off the pot. I'm tired of watching these goofballs try to simulate a Madden game instead of a football game.

And finally, to sum up the season with two words: Camp Cupcake.

HometownGal
12-11-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm curious where you get that Ben has the option to go no huddle at his choosing.

I heard it on Pompeani's show after the Denver game. Arians pretty much gives Ben free rein as far as audibles and the no-huddle go from what Pompeani said in response to a caller.

HometownGal
12-11-2009, 01:33 PM
No, no; I'm with ya. It's more than Ben. It seems that when one guy executes, another one doesn't. over and over and over.

I agree, though I have to say that Ben in these last two games really hasn't looked like the Ben of the first half of the season. I don't know if his brains were scrambled worse than what was reported, but he has just looked lost out there in both the Raiders and Browns games.

plenewken
12-11-2009, 01:46 PM
I agree, though I have to say that Ben in these last two games really hasn't looked like the Ben of the first half of the season. I don't know if his brains were scrambled worse than what was reported, but he has just looked lost out there in both the Raiders and Browns games.

Wow, you and I agree more than I thought, after our previous exchanges. Did you read my post about Ben looking out of shape, both mentally and physically?
First time I saw Ben this year, I told my SO, "Ben is either juiced up or he's been partying way too much in the off-season". See how much weight he put on?

What's your take?

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 01:46 PM
All the blame falls on Arians.Whether the players execute or not.Obviously he has lost them.The empty sets and throwing consistently in short down situations is ridiculous.They blitzed all night and he still refused to use a fullback or two back sets for most of the game.As for the idea that the running game wasn't working,that's a joke.Your not gonna gain 5 yards every attempt but you keep pounding it and you will eventually wear them down and those long runs will come.Mendy is a 25-30 caryy a game back and idiot Arians refuses to use him that way.3 yards and a cloud of dust works!!I saw way to many 3 and 4 WR sets for a game in that weather last night.Ask any Browns fan what they thought of Arians when he coached there.I have a good friend that's a Browns fan and he warned me as soon as they made him OC.

JEFF4i
12-11-2009, 02:02 PM
I think Ben looked to find his groove in Q4 of Raiders, only to lose it last night.

Why don't we throw Dixon in a Wildcat? I mean, why not mix this up? Hopefully we'll see more of that in the coming weeks, but I doubt it. Quite honestly, I'm just sick of seeing bunch sets and empty backfields. We used to use them to great effect, but that's because we only called on them once in a while.

Arians isn't totally "find what works and don't use it." It's, "find what works and use it so freakin much that everyone knows its coming."

3rd and 1 empty backfield? Really?

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:06 PM
All the blame falls on Arians.Whether the players execute or not.Obviously he has lost them.The empty sets and throwing consistently in short down situations is ridiculous.They blitzed all night and he still refused to use a fullback or two back sets for most of the game.As for the idea that the running game wasn't working,that's a joke.Your not gonna gain 5 yards every attempt but you keep pounding it and you will eventually wear them down and those long runs will come.Mendy is a 25-30 caryy a game back and idiot Arians refuses to use him that way.3 yards and a cloud of dust works!!I saw way to many 3 and 4 WR sets for a game in that weather last night.Ask any Browns fan what they thought of Arians when he coached there.I have a good friend that's a Browns fan and he warned me as soon as they made him OC.

Mods, please pardon this one teensy-weensy personal attack, but this guy is a $%^&ing idiot. :banging:

California-Steel
12-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Worry about whose run? Ours? Don't we both wish the opposition had to worry about that. We've won these last two years by passing, not running and while I agree with you about the philosophy, it no longer applies in Pittsburgh.

Now if you want to argue that Arians needs to go because we need to get back to a power running game (and never should have let Dan Kreider go) I'd be inclined to agree.

But keep in mind: We won our 6th lombardi with him and his system and replacing him will delay any success for another year or two.You are too simple minded.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:09 PM
You are too simple minded.

Am I? Care to elaborate or should I just buy your "simple minded"statement? Actually, I think I have presented my side of the argument quite well. Any jackass who discounts execution and goes straight for the play caller, to me, is "simple minded.

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 02:11 PM
Mods, please pardon this one teensy-weensy personal attack, but this guy is a $%^&ing idiot. :banging:

Why because I don't agree with you? That's why I hardly post on here,because people like you have an attitude that your thoughts are the only ones that matter.:blah:

Maybe I didn't phrase it right but what I meant was that even though I think his play calling sucks it's still up to Arians to make sure the players buy into his game plan.From the lack of effort they seem to be showing,Arians is not getting through to them.That's what a coach is there for!! To teach players not to just calll plays!!

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEH3XHHeQhY

OT: BTW - Your kid is pretty talented.

Glace
12-11-2009, 02:11 PM
Bottom line....whether you're like me and can't defend the guy anymore...or you're sitting here saying we'll tear apart ANY offensive coordinator....

We put SIX POINTS.....SIX...FREAKING....POINTS.....on the worst team in the league.

At some point, it has to go beyond execution.

The players were not motivated. The execution WAS lacking. However...if you really sit and break down the plays....it was a horribly called game. Especially with my initial point...which was the routes the receivers were running. HORRIBLE. SLOPPY...and not planned out very well. They weren't getting open...Forcing Ben to hold onto it longer...Basically forcing the sacks.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Why because I don't agree with you? That's why I hardly post on here,because people like you have an attitude that your thoughts are the only ones that matter.:blah:

Maybe I didn't phrase it right but what I meant was that even though I think his play calling sucks it's still up to Arians to make sure the players buy into his game plan.From the lack of effort they seem to be showing,Arians is not getting through to them.That's what a coach is there for!! To teach players not to just calll plays!!

Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

Where did you (or anyone else), hear that all of a sudden, having come off a 12-4 super bowl winning season, that the players aren't "buying into Arians game plan?"

JEFF4i
12-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Oh, the execution was poor too.

Here's part of my problem. I really don't want to lose Mendy, and I just see Mendy thinking he has a better future somewhere else. Why wouldn't he? The man is averaging 5 a carry on a subsantial amount, and he just doesn't see the ball enough. Not even last night.

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Bottom line....whether you're like me and can't defend the guy anymore...or you're sitting here saying we'll tear apart ANY offensive coordinator....

We put SIX POINTS.....SIX...FREAKING....POINTS.....on the worst team in the league.

At some point, it has to go beyond execution.

The players were not motivated. The execution WAS lacking. However...if you really sit and break down the plays....it was a horribly called game. Especially with my initial point...which was the routes the receivers were running. HORRIBLE. SLOPPY...and not planned out very well.

That was what I was basically saying before "the worlds smartest Steeler fan" started name calling.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Bottom line....whether you're like me and can't defend the guy anymore...or you're sitting here saying we'll tear apart ANY offensive coordinator....

We put SIX POINTS.....SIX...FREAKING....POINTS.....on the worst team in the league.

At some point, it has to go beyond execution.

The players were not motivated. The execution WAS lacking. However...if you really sit and break down the plays....it was a horribly called game. Especially with my initial point...which was the routes the receivers were running. HORRIBLE. SLOPPY...and not planned out very well. They weren't getting open...Forcing Ben to hold onto it longer...Basically forcing the sacks.

Yea, when they've executed and lost we will be at that point.

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Where have you seen that they have? Did our Offense or our Defense carry us last year? We have to much talent to play like they do and that comes down to coaching.Do you think the players we have would call Arians out? Of course not! I'm not the only who sees what's going on.The guy just isn't right for the job.

Glace
12-11-2009, 02:17 PM
Oh, the execution was poor too.

Here's part of my problem. I really don't want to lose Mendy, and I just see Mendy thinking he has a better future somewhere else. Why wouldn't he? The man is averaging 5 a carry on a subsantial amount, and he just doesn't see the ball enough. Not even last night.

How do you see us losing Mendenhall? He's only in his 2nd year. I do think this kid has a heck of a future with us.

He's one of the guys that won me over. I was skeptical at first, but after seeing him this year, I am more than comfortable calling him our feature back.

We just need to use him a little more

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm all for execution.....but I don't think we can get get Arians to stand in front of the firing line!

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:24 PM
Where have you seen that they have? Did our Offense or our Defense carry us last year? We have to much talent to play like they do and that comes down to coaching.Do you think the players we have would call Arians out? Of course not! I'm not the only who sees what's going on.The guy just isn't right for the job.

The man got a SB ring in his second year as the OC.

Why don't you break down each game?
The difference in almost everyone of our losses was either ST's or Defense. Was his playcalling bad last week when we got the ball in the RZ (compliments if an 83 yard return) and Mendy lost yardage on a run? Arians mixed it up and the players screwed it up.

Here's another one for you: What is the best medicine for an opposing pass rush?

Hint: SCREEN PASS.

Arians called it no less than four times last night. One was successful, one was a sack, one was dropped and one resulted in an immediate tackle. And I'm going on memory here.

Which games are you accusing Arians of losing for us?

JEFF4i
12-11-2009, 02:25 PM
How do you see us losing Mendenhall? He's only in his 2nd year. I do think this kid has a heck of a future with us.

He's one of the guys that won me over. I was skeptical at first, but after seeing him this year, I am more than comfortable calling him our feature back.

We just need to use him a little more

There's the problem. I love Mendy, honestly I want a jersey with 34 on it. We just gotta use the guy. Imagine if he were in Miami, or Houston. Do you know what HOuston would do for Mendy?

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:27 PM
There's the problem. I love Mendy, honestly I want a jersey with 34 on it. We just gotta use the guy. Imagine if he were in Miami, or Houston. Do you know what HOuston would do for Mendy?

I think they're pretty happy with Slaton (as are his FF league owners). I'm pretty sure they'd rather have Ben.

JEFF4i
12-11-2009, 02:28 PM
Slaton? Freshman Freak, Sophmore Slump.

We'll see next year for Slaton.

HometownGal
12-11-2009, 02:32 PM
Why because I don't agree with you? That's why I hardly post on here,because people like you have an attitude that your thoughts are the only ones that matter.:blah:

Maybe I didn't phrase it right but what I meant was that even though I think his play calling sucks it's still up to Arians to make sure the players buy into his game plan.From the lack of effort they seem to be showing,Arians is not getting through to them.That's what a coach is there for!! To teach players not to just calll plays!!

As pissed off as I was last night at BA (which normally I'm not), I don't buy what you are saying with regard to the players not "buying into his game plan" as being behind their "lack of effort". If a coach is totally responsible for motivating the players he is responsible for in his unit, then we must hold Dick Lebeau just as responsible for the abysmal way our D has played and blown leads (other than last night - I can't pin this loss on them). Do I believe Lebeau is responsible for the lacksadasical and shoddy play of the D? Of course not - no more than I believe BA is responsible for the O's "lack of effort". My point being that if you are going to point the fickle finger of blame at one coach for the bad play of his unit, you must be consistent in spreading the blame around to the other coaches whose units have played no better.

SteelerEmpire
12-11-2009, 02:37 PM
If you are lucky, another team with a Head Coaching Vacancy in the offseason will want to hire our offensive mastermind to run their team. :thumbsup:

PLEASEEEEEE ... some team call and make BA and offer he can't refuse....

JEFF4i
12-11-2009, 02:38 PM
Blame? Everyone's to blame.

Gnutella
12-11-2009, 02:40 PM
Having an unbalanced offense doesn't seem to be an issue for the Colts.

They're 2nd in passing and 32nd in running!!! No less

How come their opponents can't defend against their passing schemes?

The Steelers are far away from such a flawless execution. Is it just me or does Ben look like he's on the verge of being either sacked, tipped or intercepted 90% of the time?

The offensive coordinator also stays out of the goddamn way in Indianapolis.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:40 PM
Blame? Everyone's to blame.

Exactly.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:41 PM
The offensive coordinator also stays out of the goddamn way in Indianapolis.

Baseless statement. How is Arians "in the way????"

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 02:45 PM
I do agree that some blame needs to go Lebeau but I also realize that we are missing Aaron smith and Troy BIG TIME.Their replacements are no where close to those two.It's also obvious that Farrior has lost some speed(sucks because he's my favorite player) and that Gay is just not a starting corner.I'm not sure what's gotten into Ike this year.I also put huge blame on special teams.But calling 32 passes and only 16 carries for Mendy is just ridiculous.Especially in that weather against that D.They are a mash unit on D and running it would've worn them down eventually.As for the "best" weapon against the rush being the screen,that's not gonna work everytime.Using a fullback and extra TE would've been the smart thing to do.Maybe you like Arians offense but I hate it.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:45 PM
As pissed off as I was last night at BA (which normally I'm not), I don't buy what you are saying with regard to the players not "buying into his game plan" as being behind their "lack of effort". If a coach is totally responsible for motivating the players he is responsible for in his unit, then we must hold Dick Lebeau just as responsible for the abysmal way our D has played and blown leads (other than last night - I can't pin this loss on them). Do I believe Lebeau is responsible for the lacksadasical and shoddy play of the D? Of course not - no more than I believe BA is responsible for the O's "lack of effort". My point being that if you are going to point the fickle finger of blame at one coach for the bad play of his unit, you must be consistent in spreading the blame around to the other coaches whose units have played no better.

:applaudit:

Including Tomlin. Jeffi said it best: "Everyone is to blame." These very same players and coaches won a SB last year. This year our schedule was easier, so WTF?

One of these geniuses called me "Simple." Yet he and his clan want me to believe that the fix is as "simple" as replacing the OC.

:doh: Give me a %^&*ing break.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 02:48 PM
:applaudit:

Including Tomlin. Jeffi said it best: "Everyone is to blame." These very same players and coaches won a SB last year. This year our schedule was easier, so WTF?

One of these geniuses called me "Simple." Yet he and his clan want me to believe that the fix is as "simple" as replacing the OC.

:doh: Give me a %^&*ing break.




You remember how many times the D bailed the offense out last season? Arians should have gave half of this years pay to lebeau for letting him keep his job last season. It just didnt happen like that this year. There is some luck that goes into winning championships and it wasnt there this year.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:49 PM
I do agree that some blame needs to go Lebeau but I also realize that we are missing Aaron smith and Troy BIG TIME.Their replacements are no where close to those two.It's also obvious that Farrior has lost some speed(sucks because he's my favorite player) and that Gay is just not a starting corner.I'm not sure what's gotten into Ike this year.I also put huge blame on special teams.But calling 32 passes and only 16 carries for Mendy is just ridiculous.Especially in that weather against that D.They are a mash unit on D and running it would've worn them down eventually.As for the "best" weapon against the rush being the screen,that's not gonna work everytime.Using a fullback and extra TE would've been the smart thing to do.Maybe you like Arians offense but I hate it.

I agree with some of what you said but...

There is nothing wrong with Farrior's speed. Two weeks ago though, he SHOULD NOT have been covering Ray RIce. Last night he closed on Cribbs twice only to whiff on the tackle. Harrison earlier in the week said, "Know and do your job first before worrying about the other guy's job." Well, I saw the opposite of that last night. Everyone seemed to be compensating for Taylor and Gay.

I'm not crazy about Arians. Make no mistake about it. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that the blame for our season rests squarely at his feet either.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:52 PM
You remember how many times the D bailed the offense out last season? Arians should have gave half of this years pay to lebeau for letting him keep his job last season. It just didnt happen like that this year. There is some luck that goes into winning championships and it wasnt there this year.

Yea, I remember how thankful I was for them in the closing minutes of the Super Bowl.

Last year was a total team effort period.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 02:53 PM
I agree with some of what you said but...

There is nothing wrong with Farrior's speed. Two weeks ago though, he SHOULD NOT have been covering Ray RIce. Last night he closed on Cribbs twice only to whiff on the tackle. Harrison earlier in the week said, "Know and do your job first before worrying about the other guy's job." Well, I saw the opposite of that last night. Everyone seemed to be compensating for Taylor and Gay.

I'm not crazy about Arians. Make no mistake about it. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that the blame for our season rests squarely at his feet either.



Nobody is blaming just Arians, but you'd better believe he's a large part of the problem. Anyone who knows anything about football can tell you his play selection STINKS. It doesnt allow our offense to use their best tools and it doesnt put them in the best position to get what they need to do done.


Special teams is pretty terrible, and it started with the players. Their lack of ability to go downfield and make a tackle, often not breaking down and running straight past the ball carrier was ridiculous. There comes a point in the time when the coach needs to change and adjust to this, and they havent.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 02:54 PM
Yea, I remember how thankful I was for them in the closing minutes of the Super Bowl.

Last year was a total team effort period.




I bet your ass was thankful when James Harrison took an INT back to the house when Arizona was surely gonna get points on the board.

Glace
12-11-2009, 02:55 PM
The blame doesn't fall squarely on Arians...to a point it is up to execution...

Tomlin said it himself that football is situational. He is calling some BS plays in some bad situations. Not once...not twice...but in a repeating pattern.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 02:55 PM
I bet your ass was thankful when James Harrison took an INT back to the house when Arizona was surely gonna get points on the board.

Definitely. And I'll bet your ass was thankful when Ben and Co. drove 80+ yards down the field to reclaim the lead in dramatic fashion.

Again, total team effort.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 02:57 PM
Dont you dare give Arians credit for the last drive, DONT YOU DARE!!!! That was Big Ben making plays by scrambling and buying time, almost getting sacked multiple times.


Oh Holmes too, and francisco slipping near the end.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Dont you dare give Arians credit for the last drive, DONT YOU DARE!!!! That was Big Ben making plays by scrambling and buying time, almost getting sacked multiple times.


Oh Holmes too, and francisco slipping near the end.

Okay, but DON'T YOU DARE blame Arians for all those dropped passes, Sacks and shit throws last night. DON'T YOU DARE!

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 03:06 PM
All the blame falls on Arians.Well, that's not a touch (or a lot) over-dramatic? So, IRL, which team do you GM/Coach for? Oh yeah, you're captain of the Armchair Generals in the Genius Football League, aren't you?

Whether the players execute or not.Obviously he has lost them.The empty sets and throwing consistently in short down situations is ridiculous. Now you're being ignorant. If the players don't execute, it doesn't matter WHAT play is called. Execution is crucial. The Browns woes throughout the last few seasons have come, primarily, down to lack of execution. Either we're not tackling properly, dropping passes, missing blocks...it's always something. Yeah, the play calling can be questioned...but it's not Arians fault if a guy drops the pass, if the Center doesn't make the proper line calls or Ben doesn't audible to something else.

They blitzed all night and he still refused to use a fullback or two back sets for most of the game.Sometimes...the best answer to a blitz is to pass to the vacated spot. That comes down to recognition and execution by the players on the field. Something that Arians clearly should have done something about.

As for the idea that the running game wasn't working,that's a joke.Your not gonna gain 5 yards every attempt but you keep pounding it and you will eventually wear them down and those long runs will come.Or, you fail miserably on play after play...all the meanwhile eating up valuable clock time that you might need at the end of a close game. There's two sides to every coin.

Mendy is a 25-30 caryy a game back and idiot Arians refuses to use him that way.3 yards and a cloud of dust works!!I saw way to many 3 and 4 WR sets for a game in that weather last night.
If Mendy is a 25-30 carry a game back...then why is he an injury replacement as a starter? Most teams don't have a 2nd stringer that's qualified to be a 25-30 carry a game type back...I'm pretty sure that the Steelers are in that same boat. Maybe the idiot here isn't Arians. I also recall that Cowhere (for years) used the 3 yards and a cloud of dust method...and it wasn't until Big Ben came along and you started passing the ball that you won yoru 5th (and then 6th) rings. It's a quarterbacks league.
Ask any Browns fan what they thought of Arians when he coached there.I have a good friend that's a Browns fan and he warned me as soon as they made him OC.
Arians was working in a crappy situation when he was with the Browns. His personnel to play with were far inferior to that which you have in Pittsburgh. I'm a Browns fan, I know this very well. Did that same Browns fan also warn you that you'd win a SB with Arians as an OC? Or has the latest residential Sunshine Fan forgotten (how convenient) that minor little details.

You are either a bandwagon fan who's ready to jump ship (probably to the Saints I'd guess)....or you really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm leaning towards the second option from my personal observation...but that's just me.

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 03:08 PM
Dont you dare give Arians credit for the last drive, DONT YOU DARE!!!! That was Big Ben making plays by scrambling and buying time, almost getting sacked multiple times.


Oh Holmes too, and francisco slipping near the end.

Who's plays did he call? From who's playbook? Was he drawing plays up sandlot style on the field...or was he taking part of Arians playbook and using them to make the plays?

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 03:17 PM
Who's plays did he call? From who's playbook? Was he drawing plays up sandlot style on the field...or was he taking part of Arians playbook and using them to make the plays?

Careful not to make too much sense. It confuses them. :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-11-2009, 03:19 PM
I believe in what Steve Mariucci, Marshal Faulk and Deion Sanders said on the postgame last night. When you have big O linemen like the Steelers do and you ask them to step back and pass protect 30-40 times a game.....its not what they do well.

They went on to say that its important to be able to run the football in bad weather like this in the AFC North, because you know its gonna happen and this is the first time in decades where the Pittsburgh Steelers dont have an identity of a team that can run, or will run the football. Its no surprise that this happened....it happened in the playoffs vs Jacksonville 2 years ago and the defensive TD's from Townsend, Woodley, Polamalu, Harrison bailed out the Steelers last year.

Its just time to enjoy the fact we won 2 Lombardi's in 4 years and look forward to positive changes coming in the offseason, since we cant go much further backwards.

California-Steel
12-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Am I? Care to elaborate or should I just buy your "simple minded"statement? Actually, I think I have presented my side of the argument quite well. Any jackass who discounts execution and goes straight for the play caller, to me, is "simple minded.Nope. I learned a while back that you cannot debate simple minded people. I'll just leave it at that.

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 03:27 PM
[Where do you coach?? And yes I was being a little over the top because I hate the guy!!You are know more in position to say stuff then I am.That's just my oppinion,I was trying to convince anyone,just stating mine.Last I checked that's what this sight is for!


I never said the players weren't also to blame but that still falls on Arians to have them prepared or have other options then to keep throwing.


You can't do that every play, you have to protect you QB some also and a fullback would help!


Or you keep the ball away from the other team and let your defense rest.Mix it up 50/50 not 32 passes to 16 runs!!

Mendy is a #1 pick and expected to be an every down back.He was drafted to be the starter for years to come.Tomlin kept Willie in for respect for the veteran.Parker has been healthy for weeks and who has started?!! Mendy!!


The Browns had the same problem in that game as we do now!! They threw the ball like crazy on us but couldn't run the ball!! If they could have they would have run the clock out and won the game!! green had 30 yards rushing in that game!! Sense a pattern there!!!We also won the 5th Bowl with a more balanced offense and ran the ball late in games to eat up clock.


You have know idea who I and I really don't give a shit what you think! I ride with my team through thick and thin and have for 38 years but I also call it how I see when I'm upset.Sorry that I'm not a Browns fan that is used to losing and just sits back and says "oh well next year"! If Arians is so great why has every other OC we've had come through here been offered a head coaching job except for him?!

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Nope. I learned a while back that you cannot debate simple minded people. I'll just leave it at that.

Riiight. And I've always known that there are folks who THINK they are right, but have no way of producing an argument. We call those "ignoramuses"

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 03:34 PM
You have know idea who I and I really don't give a shit what you think! I ride with my team through thick and thin and have for 38 years but I also call it how I see when I'm upset.Sorry that I'm not a Browns fan that is used to losing and just sits back and says "oh well next year"! If Arians is so great why has every other OC we've had come through here been offered a head coaching job except for him?!

It sure sounds like you ride your team when the going gets tough...and ride with them when it's going well. Where were you posting about how terrible Arians was after the SB victory?

I didn't say that Arians was a great OC...only that he was good enough to help you win a SB.

Coaches coach, players execute. It takes the combination of coaching, playcalling and execution to win games. The Browns showed up with the coach, playcalling and execution (for once)...the Steelers did none of that. It's not all on Arians. If anything, I'd say he outcoached himself.

"Arians thinking to himself" It's 3rd and short in terrible conditions...I have a Top 3 QB in the league behind center and everyone is expecting run...so lets spread the field and make something happen.

You have the personnel for that to work. They just didn't exectute. I didn't hear Big Ben Audible out of those play calls...so he must have felt they were the right call in the right situation. Or is your 2x SB Winning QB not capable of making his own calls and audibling at the line?

Where do you coach?? And yes I was being a little over the top because I hate the guy!!You are know more in position to say stuff then I am.That's just my oppinion,I was trying to convince anyone,just stating mine.Last I checked that's what this sight is for! Well, for football, I work with my friends in some little league. For Volleyball, right now here in Columbus...and Softball will be in the Spring (same location) You hate the guy...which means you are posting with an agenda and not thinking with a clear head and logic. Instead, you post emotional BS and then get upset when you get called out on it.


I never said the players weren't also to blame but that still falls on Arians to have them prepared or have other options then to keep throwing.No, but you just conveniently ignored calling them out because (as stated above...which you admit) you have an Anti-Arians Agenda.


You can't do that every play, you have to protect you QB some also and a fullback would help!You're right, it can't be done every play...that's where the QB calls an audible or talks/works with his OC when the defense is on the field...and if that doesn't work...then he goes to the HC. Big Ben is supposed to be the leader of your team...and the Franchise player...I'm pretty sure he's earned the respect of the coaching staff to tell them when he needs protection.


Or you keep the ball away from the other team and let your defense rest.Mix it up 50/50 not 32 passes to 16 runs!!Most teams feel the need to pass the ball when they're behind. Tell me, when did the Steelers have the lead in this game?

Mendy is a #1 pick and expected to be an every down back.He was drafted to be the starter for years to come.Tomlin kept Willie in for respect for the veteran.Parker has been healthy for weeks and who has started?!! Mendy!!Mendy might be expected to be an every down back...but he (clearly) hasn't shown he can handle the full load in his first full season as a starter. You assume that Parker is the starter because Tomlin respects him...but ownership respects wins and losses...and I assume that Tomlin does the same and would do his best to put the best team on the field...Parker being a veteran-be-damned. Mendy is the backup until he proves he can actually handle the load...and he hasn't proven that yet.


The Browns had the same problem in that game as we do now!! They threw the ball like crazy on us but couldn't run the ball!! If they could have they would have run the clock out and won the game!! green had 30 yards rushing in that game!! Sense a pattern there!!!We also won the 5th Bowl with a more balanced offense and ran the ball late in games to eat up clock.

The Browns threw the ball because their starter is injured and the guy who spent most of his time running the rock....was signed off of the Practice squad earlier this season. For a good portion of the game (first 3 quarters) he was averaging over 5 yards per carry...and only in the later part of the game did it drop below 4. Looks to me like the Browns out executed against a more talented defense from what I've seen. Being as I didn't get to watch the game, I'll have to have a PM chat with Revs to get his take. (He was at the game with good seats, I'm so jealous).

steelpride12
12-11-2009, 03:36 PM
As long as Arians is on this team I will give him my full support and trust for this offense. He may not always make the right plays, but he took our offense to the Super Bowl last season and won it, I just can't argue with that at all.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 03:38 PM
Okay, but DON'T YOU DARE blame Arians for all those dropped passes, Sacks and shit throws last night. DON'T YOU DARE!




I do blame him because he of all people should know the quality of the line. Half of those shouldnt have been pass plays to BEGIN with!!! 3rd and 1 with mendy running well and he goes to shotgun??? WHAT?!?!?!


As the coordinator he should take into account the 40 MPH wind gusts and call plays accordingly.


You are arguing MY point, THANK YOU!

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 03:39 PM
Dicky's D at least puts his guys into position to make plays, and they fail... miserably. They drop ints, miss tackles, etc etc. Thats when you blame the players.


Im sorry you're too ignorant and blinded by the homer googles to realize this. Maybe Ill help you see the light?

California-Steel
12-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Riiight. And I've always known that there are folks who THINK they are right, but have no way of producing an argument. We call those "ignoramuses"Whatever.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 03:42 PM
I believe in what Steve Mariucci, Marshal Faulk and Deion Sanders said on the postgame last night. When you have big O linemen like the Steelers do and you ask them to step back and pass protect 30-40 times a game.....its not what they do well.

They went on to say that its important to be able to run the football in bad weather like this in the AFC North, because you know its gonna happen and this is the first time in decades where the Pittsburgh Steelers dont have an identity of a team that can run, or will run the football. Its no surprise that this happened....it happened in the playoffs vs Jacksonville 2 years ago and the defensive TD's from Townsend, Woodley, Polamalu, Harrison bailed out the Steelers last year.

Its just time to enjoy the fact we won 2 Lombardi's in 4 years and look forward to positive changes coming in the offseason, since we cant go much further backwards.

How quickly we forget both last year nad 2003. Both times, we could not run the football.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 03:45 PM
I do blame him because he of all people should know the quality of the line. Half of those shouldnt have been pass plays to BEGIN with!!! 3rd and 1 with mendy running well and he goes to shotgun??? WHAT?!?!?!


As the coordinator he should take into account the 40 MPH wind gusts and call plays accordingly.


You are arguing MY point, THANK YOU!

No. I'm not arguing your point. You're talking about one series. And we DO need to mix it up. Ben got tackled like a bitch by Hank "I just got beat deep" Poteat for crying out loud.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 03:45 PM
Whatever.

:rofl:

And "I'm" the simple one. :rofl:

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 03:50 PM
No. I'm not arguing your point. You're talking about one series. And we DO need to mix it up. Ben got tackled like a bitch by Hank "I just got beat deep" Poteat for crying out loud.

No man, Im not talking about one series, Im talking about 2 friggin seasons. I disliked Arians last year, and this year just sealed the deal. He doesnt know what he's doing.


A coach and coordinator gives his players the best calls for their ability and other surrounding factors. Arians is inept at it and to top it all off, he REFUSES to adjust. We need to get back to Steeler football.

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 03:56 PM
No man, Im not talking about one series, Im talking about 2 friggin seasons. I disliked Arians last year, and this year just sealed the deal. He doesnt know what he's doing.


A coach and coordinator gives his players the best calls for their ability and other surrounding factors. Arians is inept at it and to top it all off, he REFUSES to adjust. We need to get back to Steeler football.

It wasn't until Big Ben came along and you could actually throw the ball....that you won your most recent Rings. Steeler Football (aka AFCN football) identity is nothing more than a catch phrase tossed around by the media and the fans to perpetuate a system. So long as the team is winning, the fans don't care how...but once the losing starts...it always comes back to...we need to get back to our identity of Steelers Football.

How'd your last SB go again? Big Ben, scrambling to make plays...the WRs were actually catching the ball (execution) and the ball being thrown around. Your last two SB MVPs were what position? It wasn't OL, DL, LB, DB, HB or even QB. It was WR. The guys who catch PASSES. I'm just saying.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 04:00 PM
No man, Im not talking about one series, Im talking about 2 friggin seasons. I disliked Arians last year, and this year just sealed the deal. He doesnt know what he's doing.


A coach and coordinator gives his players the best calls for their ability and other surrounding factors. Arians is inept at it and to top it all off, he REFUSES to adjust. We need to get back to Steeler football.

I am so sick and tired of hearing this phrase, because "Steeler football" produced nothing but losses in AFCCG's for the better part of a decade and a half. The game has changed. Get used to it.

What we need, as I have been saying all year, is BALANCE.

California-Steel
12-11-2009, 04:02 PM
:rofl:

And "I'm" the simple one. :rofl:No your are simple-minded.

Spidey
12-11-2009, 04:03 PM
You could see this coming from last season, he road his luck, Ben and the defense last year.

He made several howlers last season but at least he came out and accepted the blame a few times, he's made far more boners this season, yet Bruce has remained silent as a mouse!

He's meant to be an expert in the passing game, well you would think, having been recievers coach and his penchant for turning us into a throwing team. So if he can't get the passing game to work, what hope everything else, . . . . . none.

I've never befeore witnessed in all my years such inept, game planning and play calling, It's criminal the way this offense has underperformed this season considering the available weapons.

Ward in the backfield blocking on a 3rd down play, wtf!!!!!!!

The defense has struggled at times too admittadly, but at least they have the excuse of missing our best two players!

I think what we're gradually seeing from the players is a lack of faith in Arians, which hopefully, can only lead to his departure.

Good ridance to bad rubbish.

MillerMania83
12-11-2009, 04:05 PM
AMN, I hear ya, and was thinking the exact same thing...The OC calls the plays, and it's time for him to go....Its every game anymore that you can sit there watchin and have 5-6 plays run and ya say to yourself, "WTH was that", the calls are just STUPID, plain and simple...And for the NFL you can't have too many "stupid" play calls every week, ya just can't, the L's will start to pile up, if the players are excuting or not, ya just can't have "stupid" plays called to try and beat another NFL team, YOU WILL LOSE.As someone that hasn't had a problem with Bruce Arians up to last night I will now say that the offensive game plan and play calls were simply atrocious.
When on the first Steelers O series on 3rd and 1 and Ben went into the shotgun I was having fits. My sister and nephew haven't seem me that pissed off in a long long time.
Why oh why would you not run the ball after gaining 9 yards on two runs on the first two downs.

That play told me right then that we were in trouble.
You can now add me to the list of people that want Arians gone.
Ben looked like garbage, the Oline looked like garbage, the receivers never got open.

Where was Mike Tomlin when Arians was calling these plays?

Just effin wow.

The Steelers have gone from defending Super Bowl Champs to the current worst team in the NFL in five weeks time.

NJarhead
12-11-2009, 04:13 PM
No your are simple-minded.

"Whatever."

:chuckle:

brick
12-11-2009, 04:40 PM
echoing a lot of what was said in this thread, i gave arians the benefit of the doubt after winning the super bowl, i mean it's tough to get rid of a guy after your team wins a championship, but that sb was on the back of lebeau's defense, and arians offense came through when it absolutely had to (damn it got close sometimes). i keep hearing that the offensive line will 'get better and better with time'. sorry, they've had two(+) years, and it's not working. we don't have time to give these guys five years to get up to the level of competent pass/run protection, giving up howevermany sacks to the atrocious browns was just the straw that broke the camel's back imo. i think we can get better value for the same money with the line, and we can get a much better and more creative offensive coordinator that will complement our team's style.

stillers4me
12-11-2009, 04:51 PM
You may be right, but I think the players don't believe much in themselves anymore, either.

I've always supported Arians and up until last night, didn't feel he did a bad job as our OC, but even I was pissed at the majority of his playcalling last night. If the Steelers feel it is time for him to move on, then so be it. You won't hear anymore flack from me.

:yikes:

Hell really did freeze over last night!

Just messing with you, HTG. :hug:

I just hope we make the right decisions in the off season and get this sinking ship back on course. Watching this team bleed out is just too painful.

California-Steel
12-11-2009, 05:14 PM
"Whatever."

:chuckle:Exactly.

mesaSteeler
12-11-2009, 05:19 PM
:yikes:

Hell really did freeze over last night!

Just messing with you, HTG. :hug:

I just hope we make the right decisions in the off season and get this sinking ship back on course. Watching this team bleed out is just too painful.

Well it's been damn cold in Phoenix at night so hell must be frozen over since everyone knows Phoenix is hotter than Hell.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Well it's been damn cold in Phoenix at night so hell must be frozen over since everyone knows Phoenix is hotter than Hell.

:chuckle:

That's about what it is like here too. Though we aren't usually as hot. as you guys are.

steelreserve
12-11-2009, 05:34 PM
All I've got to say about this is ... well, you sure don't hear many people saying "OMG SKY IS FALLING!!!" anymore.

Now that the sky actually fell, that is.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 05:36 PM
All I've got to say about this is ... well, you sure don't hear many people saying "OMG SKY IS FALLING!!!" anymore.

Now that the sky actually fell, that is.

No, the sky hasn't fell IMO. We had one bad season...actually, a bad half a season.

It'll be straightened out. We will re-load, and be back next year.

After all, those for whom the "SKy is Falling" comments were directed, were saying that all last year as well, and we won the SB.

This half of this season doesn't justify the negativity on this board over the last three years. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-11-2009, 05:52 PM
If Arians is so great why has every other OC we've had come through here been offered a head coaching job except for him?!

Interesting............Whiz, Mularkey, Gailey, Sherman(oops). Maybe this is the year that Arians gets sought out by another team for his offensive wizardry. ???

steelreserve
12-11-2009, 06:02 PM
No, the sky hasn't fell IMO. We had one bad season...actually, a bad half a season.

It'll be straightened out. We will re-load, and be back next year.

After all, those for whom the "SKy is Falling" comments were directed, were saying that all last year as well, and we won the SB.

This half of this season doesn't justify the negativity on this board over the last three years. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

OK, this isn't a total collapse by any stretch of the imagination. But it does hammer home with a sense of finality that yes, for this year at least, we FAILED. There are undeniably problems that need to be dealt with, and this forces everyone to acknowledge that. Up until a couple of weeks ago, there were some people who didn't want to confront that, or didn't believe it was real.

Yeah, we'll solve it. But I don't see much of this attitude remaining where any player or coach is immune from criticism.

Arians? I don't honestly know if he deserves to be fired. I'm guessing he probably will be regardless, because after a meltdown like this, you have to take some kind of significant action to send a message. And he's right in the line of fire.

LVSteelersfan
12-11-2009, 06:37 PM
The man got a SB ring in his second year as the OC.

Which games are you accusing Arians of losing for us?

We lost most of those games because of Arian's playcalling in the red zone. I guarantee you he lost the Kansas City game because of it. We lost to Oakland because of it. His stupid playcalling inside the 20 is the most bizarre and frustrating thing I have ever seen. He refuses to run the ball in there. He runs that stupid empty backfield set inside the 10 every time on a third down. It is incredibly stupid. I am not totally averse to everything Arians does, but some of it is just mind boggling. Why are there always two receivers running in the same area of the field instead of spreading them out all over field? Why does Arians insist on throwing the deep ball on first downs when Ben obviously does not have the arm or the accuracy to get it there. I hate to rag on Ben, but a lot of his throws have been absolutely pathetic over 10 yards. Maybe his mind is not 100% on the game this year, but he needs to spend his time in the offseason working with his receivers instead of playing in golf tournaments.

steeldawg
12-11-2009, 06:40 PM
If you are lucky, another team with a Head Coaching Vacancy in the offseason will want to hire our offensive mastermind to run their team. :thumbsup:

how would that help us get rid of arians :rofl:

O Sensei
12-11-2009, 07:03 PM
Wow...this is kinda stunning really. I hate to be one of those faithful "I hate Arians...ers..." and say I told ya so...so I won't be. In fact I will just say Thank You...I feel slightly vindicated, stunned a bit at last night's outcome, I figured snow and a frigid field would drag old bruce out from the insane place he has been for much of this season, but I was wrong. Dan Kreider and a pile of dust ain't lookin' so bad now huh? Especially if it springs another back for a 15-20 yard scamper. Still, as much as I dislike the way he calls games, the overall offensive scheme...which in reality has been what...be stunning in spurts and suck for the majority??? Disregard the importance of scoring TDs in the redzone? Ignore the run game against porous run defenses? If ya didn't get it by the detroit game folks....do ya get it now??? No, what really has me irked is the players....yes, players. I didn't see much effort out there, little intensity. How does THAT happen???? I don't know if I agree with the players won't play if they know a plays doomed conspiracy...I know a few of these guys and they don't do that, at least the good ones. Heath, Hokie, rashard, hines...they are out there bringin' it, or bustin their asses trying to week in and week out, but overall there was a listlessness that we've seen more than a couple times this season and something causes that. If the coaches do not game plan properly in this league, if the plan is flawed you are going to lose on any given Sunday except this season that is beginning to seem like EVERY given Sunday, or Thursday apparantly. If detroit can run roughshod over the Cleveland D what the hell does it mean when all the steelers O can muster is 6 GD points, pretty much says it all. Don't let the door hit ya in the ass bruce.

AllD
12-11-2009, 07:35 PM
I believe in what Steve Mariucci, Marshal Faulk and Deion Sanders said on the postgame last night. When you have big O linemen like the Steelers do and you ask them to step back and pass protect 30-40 times a game.....its not what they do well.

They went on to say that its important to be able to run the football in bad weather like this in the AFC North, because you know its gonna happen and this is the first time in decades where the Pittsburgh Steelers dont have an identity of a team that can run, or will run the football. Its no surprise that this happened....it happened in the playoffs vs Jacksonville 2 years ago and the defensive TD's from Townsend, Woodley, Polamalu, Harrison bailed out the Steelers last year.

Its just time to enjoy the fact we won 2 Lombardi's in 4 years and look forward to positive changes coming in the offseason, since we cant go much further backwards.


The same thing happened to the Ravens this year as they got away from the run and a good defense. They just did not hit rock bottom as hard as the Steelers.

ricardisimo
12-11-2009, 07:38 PM
I no longer give a shit about Arians. Fire him, don't fire him, whatever. It won't matter who the new OC is, everyone will hate him, too. It's always been like this in Pittsburgh, and always will be like this in Pittsburgh. It's the only place in the universe where coaches get torn to shreds AFTER they win the super bowl.

If we hire a new OC, it'll be probably be 2011 before we are a team capable of doing damage in the playoffs. A new system takes time to implement...

You mean like in N.O. a few years ago, or Baltimore and Miami last year. Or Tomlin in his 1st and second year? Yeah, it took forever to right those ships.

I think that's largely overblown. Turning around a franchise takes forever if your players suck (Cleveland). But a team as talented as Pittsburgh can turn on a dime if the system is simple and effective, and maximizes the personnel.

zsheik22
12-11-2009, 09:02 PM
It wasn't until Big Ben came along and you could actually throw the ball....that you won your most recent Rings. Steeler Football (aka AFCN football) identity is nothing more than a catch phrase tossed around by the media and the fans to perpetuate a system. So long as the team is winning, the fans don't care how...but once the losing starts...it always comes back to...we need to get back to our identity of Steelers Football.

How'd your last SB go again? Big Ben, scrambling to make plays...the WRs were actually catching the ball (execution) and the ball being thrown around. Your last two SB MVPs were what position? It wasn't OL, DL, LB, DB, HB or even QB. It was WR. The guys who catch PASSES. I'm just saying.




Steeler football isnt throwing the ball deep and failing miserably. Steeler football is running screen plays, running the clock down, and running the ball down the other teams throat. Look where that passing offense shit got us this year.

The last SB MVP could have very well went to harrison, and a lot of people think it should have.

AllD
12-11-2009, 09:05 PM
BA is the most hated man in Pittsburgh since Neil O'Donnel, Tommy Maddox and Richard Nixon.

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 09:11 PM
Steeler football isnt throwing the ball deep and failing miserably. Steeler football is running screen plays, running the clock down, and running the ball down the other teams throat. Look where that passing offense shit got us this year.

The last SB MVP could have very well went to harrison, and a lot of people think it should have.
did they get to and win the superbowl last year with screens and running the ball down peoples throats ? or was it by throwing the ball ? :popcorn:

Preacher
12-11-2009, 09:36 PM
OK, this isn't a total collapse by any stretch of the imagination. But it does hammer home with a sense of finality that yes, for this year at least, we FAILED. There are undeniably problems that need to be dealt with, and this forces everyone to acknowledge that. Up until a couple of weeks ago, there were some people who didn't want to confront that, or didn't believe it was real.

Yeah, we'll solve it. But I don't see much of this attitude remaining where any player or coach is immune from criticism.

Arians? I don't honestly know if he deserves to be fired. I'm guessing he probably will be regardless, because after a meltdown like this, you have to take some kind of significant action to send a message. And he's right in the line of fire.

Dang it SR. When you post like this... you make sense. :flap:

Let's see how far you are willing to take it... how much of Willie P.'s problems were scheming? :poke:

xfl2001fan
12-11-2009, 09:51 PM
Steeler football isnt throwing the ball deep and failing miserably. Steeler football is running screen plays, running the clock down, and running the ball down the other teams throat. Look where that passing offense shit got us this year.

The last SB MVP could have very well went to harrison, and a lot of people think it should have.

Screen plays, running the clock down and running the ball down the other teams throat typically only work when you are playing with the lead. Your team NEVER had the lead this game...that stuff isn't near as effective when you play from behind. In fact, that stuff is counter-productive when you are playing from behind.

Look where that passing offense shit got you last year. Oh yeah...how soon you have forgotten. I guess you joined the Steelers Bandwagon after the SB...

Preacher
12-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Screen plays, running the clock down and running the ball down the other teams throat typically only work when you are playing with the lead. Your team NEVER had the lead this game...that stuff isn't near as effective when you play from behind. In fact, that stuff is counter-productive when you are playing from behind.

Look where that passing offense shit got you last year. Oh yeah...how soon you have forgotten. I guess you joined the Steelers Bandwagon after the SB...

:rofl:

NOW I have seen it all.

MasterOfPuppets
12-11-2009, 10:28 PM
Screen plays, running the clock down and running the ball down the other teams throat typically only work when you are playing with the lead. Your team NEVER had the lead this game...that stuff isn't near as effective when you play from behind. In fact, that stuff is counter-productive when you are playing from behind.

Look where that passing offense shit got you last year. Oh yeah...how soon you have forgotten. I guess you joined the Steelers Bandwagon after the SB...

:applaudit: .... i guess he wasn't around to hear the 13 years of bitching about ,"predictable Cowher ball" ... its amazing how soon people forget.

Preacher
12-11-2009, 10:54 PM
:applaudit: .... i guess he wasn't around to hear the 13 years of bitching about ,"predictable Cowher ball" ... its amazing how soon people forget.

Yep. How well I remember having a team score on us in the fourth quarter and we simply look around like "What do we do now? It takes us 9 minutes to go down for a field goal, and we only have 3 minutes to get a TD!"

7SteelGal43
12-11-2009, 10:57 PM
Arians must go :tt03:

ricardisimo
12-11-2009, 11:16 PM
Chan Gailey was HHHHHHHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt tttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed as the Steelers OC. He was actually pretty successful as OC, but there was a TON of anti-Gailey hate back in the day.

It all comes back to this...even if we fire Arians and go back to power football, the new OC will be hated. Probably sooner rather than later because running the ball is conservative, and we've had a taste of success with Ben throwing a lot. As usual, if we aren't going 19-0 and beating teams by 50 points in the Super bowl every year, the cries for the head of the OC will ring loud and clear throughout Steelers message boards.

Bruce Arians.
Ken Whisenhunt
Kevin Gilbride
Chan Gailey

I don't care which present or past OC it is, they were all WIDELY hated, mocked and despised by Steelers fans. Whoever the new guy is will be too...because every fan who knows even a scrap about football thinks they know how to run an NFL offense based on 20/20 hindsight and an overly simplistic view of the complexity of an NFL offense.

You and several others keep repeating this, evidently hoping that repetition will
make it true. It won't. Interestingly, you have elsewhere asked why no one is similarly calling for Lebeau's head, since the defense (and not the offense, in your mind) was the true culprit.

Well, you should be able to answer your own question here; why are we not calling for the head of the DC despite the lousy showings? Simple... a long, sustained pattern of success allows him to ride droughts like this. Arians and Ligashesky don't have the cred yet, nor will they ever, from the looks of it. But the idea that we run any assistant out of town after one poor showing is simply - and demonstrably - not true.

P. S. - I for one wouldn't object to Gailey.

johnnyribcage
12-11-2009, 11:47 PM
OK, this isn't a total collapse by any stretch of the imagination. But it does hammer home with a sense of finality that yes, for this year at least, we FAILED. There are undeniably problems that need to be dealt with, and this forces everyone to acknowledge that. Up until a couple of weeks ago, there were some people who didn't want to confront that, or didn't believe it was real.

Yeah, we'll solve it. But I don't see much of this attitude remaining where any player or coach is immune from criticism.

Arians? I don't honestly know if he deserves to be fired. I'm guessing he probably will be regardless, because after a meltdown like this, you have to take some kind of significant action to send a message. And he's right in the line of fire.

OK, not one stretch? You don't think this is a total collapse by any stretch? This team has flushed itself completely down the toilet and they blah blah and shrugged their shoulders and said "Uh, hey it beat's me man, we're usually pretty good I dunno, uh" the whole time. I think I would HAVE to STRECH it WAY out to call it anything other than a total collapse. Failure on every level. Say one good thing that has happened since the Ravens game (beyond BA finally being exposed and hopefully nailing his coffin shut with the Steelers).

SteelC7
12-12-2009, 12:17 AM
o ya im terrified taht we keep that moron, if we could be lucky enough to grab shanahan as offensive coordinator that would be awesome, but unfortunately i think that someone will get him as a head coach, which is where he belongs, but as offensive coordinator and another QB like elway, a good RB somewhat like terrelle davis, and good receivers, better than elway had we could be an offensive juggernaut

ricardisimo
12-12-2009, 12:22 AM
I've got an idea: How about Billick? He never was as good a HC as OC... let's ease him out of the broadcast booth and let him get some revenge on his old employer.

steelreserve
12-12-2009, 12:24 AM
OK, not one stretch? You don't think this is a total collapse by any stretch? This team has flushed itself completely down the toilet and they blah blah and shrugged their shoulders and said "Uh, hey it beat's me man, we're usually pretty good I dunno, uh" the whole time. I think I would HAVE to STRECH it WAY out to call it anything other than a total collapse. Failure on every level. Say one good thing that has happened since the Ravens game (beyond BA finally being exposed and hopefully nailing his coffin shut with the Steelers).

What I meant was that it wasn't the kind of collapse where the whole franchise goes into the toilet for multiple years. A 49ers-at-the-end-of-the-1990s style collapse. We've still got a team good enough that we should be right back in the mix next year.

As for this season -- yeah, it was about the most abysmal collapse you can have. Not arguing with you on that one.

steelreserve
12-12-2009, 12:36 AM
Dang it SR. When you post like this... you make sense. :flap:

Let's see how far you are willing to take it... how much of Willie P.'s problems were scheming? :poke:

Nah, Parker had problems of his own. He basically lived and died based on whether the opponent was any good. Although when we went to no fullback, it probably exaggerated his shortcomings even further.

As far as I'm concerned, my main problem with the Arians/Parker dynamic was the same as with the Cowher/Parker dynamic -- if we got through a third of the game and it was obvious Parker wasn't capable of beating the opponent straight-up, we didn't adapt at all, we stuck with a plan that didn't work. We were basically using him wrong. That was bad for the offense and ultimately bad for Parker too.

Like I've said before, I don't really think Arians is a BAD coordinator. Good enough to get by with, but not particularly inspiring or visionary. Just adequate. I don't think his schemes stand out as anything that definitively WON us any more games that we would've normally, but it's a stretch to say he cost us many games either. He could stay or he could go next year and I'd probably be OK with either. But he looks like the most obvious candidate to take the fall for this disaster, other than the special teams coach.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Nah, Parker had problems of his own. He basically lived and died based on whether the opponent was any good. Although when we went to no fullback, it probably exaggerated his shortcomings even further.

As far as I'm concerned, my main problem with the Arians/Parker dynamic was the same as with the Cowher/Parker dynamic -- if we got through a third of the game and it was obvious Parker wasn't capable of beating the opponent straight-up, we didn't adapt at all, we stuck with a plan that didn't work. We were basically using him wrong. That was bad for the offense and ultimately bad for Parker too.

Like I've said before, I don't really think Arians is a BAD coordinator. Good enough to get by with, but not particularly inspiring or visionary. Just adequate. I don't think his schemes stand out as anything that definitively WON us any more games that we would've normally, but it's a stretch to say he cost us many games either. He could stay or he could go next year and I'd probably be OK with either. But he looks like the most obvious candidate to take the fall for this disaster, other than the special teams coach.

Gotta admit, that is one of the most honest assessments I have heard yet.

I have come to the place where I think that he should probably go. The continued empty set on 3rd and short just doesn't sit right with me.

Heck, the first time I was surprised by it... and thought "heck, why not, maybe they aren't ready for it either." The second or third time? Naaa.

In hindsight, as I said before, an I formation TE and 2 wr set for a playaction may have caught them REALLY off guard if Arians wanted to throw the ball there. That would have made a lot more sense... especially if they brought up 9 guys into the box.

johnnyribcage
12-12-2009, 01:01 AM
What I meant was that it wasn't the kind of collapse where the whole franchise goes into the toilet for multiple years. A 49ers-at-the-end-of-the-1990s style collapse. We've still got a team good enough that we should be right back in the mix next year.

As for this season -- yeah, it was about the most abysmal collapse you can have. Not arguing with you on that one.

Okay, we're in agreement. I re-read my post an I didn't mean to sound harsh to you, just in general. Yeah, they'll be fine in the future, but man oh God in Heaven what a pathetic meltdown of a year.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 01:12 AM
Okay, we're in agreement. I re-read my post an I didn't mean to sound harsh to you, just in general. Yeah, they'll be fine in the future, but man oh God in Heaven what a pathetic meltdown of a year.

:chuckle:

yep. So reminiscent of 2007 and 97.

xfl2001fan
12-12-2009, 07:39 AM
I've got an idea: How about Billick? He never was as good a HC as OC... let's ease him out of the broadcast booth and let him get some revenge on his old employer.

It's easy to be a good OC when you are throwing the ball to Chris Carter, Randy Moss and company.

NJarhead
12-12-2009, 10:38 AM
It's easy to be a good OC when you are throwing the ball to Chris Carter, Randy Moss and company.

...and Jake Reed. Plus with Robert Smith running the ball.

He never built any semblance of an offense with Baltimore though.

markymarc
12-12-2009, 12:47 PM
Well after the 2009 season is finished we shall see what kind of HC Mike Tomlin truly is. Changes are needed and let's see what happens in the off season.

St33lersguy
12-12-2009, 01:16 PM
Better late than never. Welcome to the club

WH
12-12-2009, 01:42 PM
...and Jake Reed. Plus with Robert Smith running the ball.

He never built any semblance of an offense with Baltimore though.
That's because he never had an semblance of offensive talent. (other than Todd Heap and Jamal Lewis)

and i'm saying this blindly without looking, but, with the talent that team kept on Defense, he probably didn't have the money to buy any.....'

as for the rest of you.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/ketchup_xb/vader.jpg

revefsreleets
12-12-2009, 03:10 PM
You and several others keep repeating this, evidently hoping that repetition will
make it true. It won't. Interestingly, you have elsewhere asked why no one is similarly calling for Lebeau's head, since the defense (and not the offense, in your mind) was the true culprit.

Well, you should be able to answer your own question here; why are we not calling for the head of the DC despite the lousy showings? Simple... a long, sustained pattern of success allows him to ride droughts like this. Arians and Ligashesky don't have the cred yet, nor will they ever, from the looks of it. But the idea that we run any assistant out of town after one poor showing is simply - and demonstrably - not true.

P. S. - I for one wouldn't object to Gailey.


It happened. It's happening now. Those are FACTS.

It will happen again....

Gailey? So, in other words, we'll have to hear how we don't pass enough again for the next 1-5 years? And how everyone else knows that the PASS is the way to win?

We've been there. We've done that. You being a denier and attempting to revise history (and the present) does nothing to change any of that...

Preacher
12-12-2009, 03:32 PM
You and several others keep repeating this, evidently hoping that repetition will
make it true. It won't. Interestingly, you have elsewhere asked why no one is similarly calling for Lebeau's head, since the defense (and not the offense, in your mind) was the true culprit.

Well, you should be able to answer your own question here; why are we not calling for the head of the DC despite the lousy showings? Simple... a long, sustained pattern of success allows him to ride droughts like this. Arians and Ligashesky don't have the cred yet, nor will they ever, from the looks of it. But the idea that we run any assistant out of town after one poor showing is simply - and demonstrably - not true.

P. S. - I for one wouldn't object to Gailey.

Funny you talk about a long sustained history for LeBeau.

However, it was his defense that failed in 2004 AFCCG. It was his defense that failed in 2006. It was his defense that failed in teh second half of 2007 (talk about a collapse). It was his defense that started failing in the playoffs last year (every team making comebacks). It was his defense that failed this year.

Personally, I love LeBeau. But I am not blinded by that love. He needs to make some serious adjustments because his D. get beat at key moments.

I do think that Rev is right concerning an O. C. For the simply reason that Pittsburgh fans like the whine and complain. Period.

revefsreleets
12-12-2009, 03:37 PM
LeBeau is a sacred cow....I mean, the classic definition thereof....

The next OC WILL suffer the same fate as all the other OC's. As sure as the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, the next OC will be reviled and hated and scapegoated.

xbroughneck
12-12-2009, 03:51 PM
I'm ok with us getting rid of Arians, going with more traditional offensive sets, and having to wait 3 years for the Steelers to get back into the Super Bowl.

I love winning. I do.

But over the past 30 years I identified with a specific style of Pittsburgh Steeler football. Over the past 4 seasons the Steelers haven't played that style of football on offense.

I know that the offense is designed around Ben.

I want an offense that's designed to work no matter who we have at QB. The offense IMHO relys too heavily on the QB. Too little on being physical with opposing defenses (except for Hines dishing out a great block here and there).

If this season is an opportunity for the Steelers to go back to a more traditional style of offensive play calling (with Ben as the QB), I'm all for the change.

Seriously. Let's get back to Steeler football. I formation, lots of playaction (which Ben would be great at), the occasional no huddle series...occassional 4 wide out sets..... but the base offense would be the standard I formation, offset I formation.

That's just my wish though.

WH
12-12-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm ok with us getting rid of Arians, going with more traditional offensive sets, and having to wait 3 years for the Steelers to get back into the Super Bowl.

I love winning. I do.

But over the past 30 years I identified with a specific style of Pittsburgh Steeler football. Over the past 4 seasons the Steelers haven't played that style of football on offense.

I know that the offense is designed around Ben.

I want an offense that's designed to work no matter who we have at QB. The offense IMHO relys too heavily on the QB. Too little on being physical with opposing defenses (except for Hines dishing out a great block here and there).

If this season is an opportunity for the Steelers to go back to a more traditional style of offensive play calling (with Ben as the QB), I'm all for the change.

Seriously. Let's get back to Steeler football. I formation, lots of playaction (which Ben would be great at), the occasional no huddle series...occassional 4 wide out sets..... but the base offense would be the standard I formation, offset I formation.

That's just my wish though.

I can definately get behind this wish. The only ? is Rashard. Will he be as amazing as we think he can be? If that's true. I'm all for it.

Glace
12-12-2009, 04:39 PM
I can definately get behind this wish. The only ? is Rashard. Will he be as amazing as we think he can be? If that's true. I'm all for it.

Yes he will...and I would have LOVED to see him behind a FB like Kreider. Mendy is big enough to run people over and agile enough to spin and fake people out of their shoes.

As for a new OC....my only wish is BALANCE.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 04:42 PM
Sigh.

Only in Pittsburgh do we desire to go back to something that has repeatedly failed in the playoffs.

MasterOfPuppets
12-12-2009, 05:14 PM
Sigh.

Only in Pittsburgh do we desire to go back to something that has repeatedly failed in the playoffs.
those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it ....:tap:

WH
12-12-2009, 05:18 PM
those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it ....:tap:

'07 meet '09....only without a defense to help with the bailout..

xbroughneck
12-12-2009, 05:26 PM
Sigh.

Only in Pittsburgh do we desire to go back to something that has repeatedly failed in the playoffs.

Referring to the Steelers, or any super bowl champion in general?

pepsyman1
12-12-2009, 05:30 PM
Sigh.

Only in Pittsburgh do we desire to go back to something that has repeatedly failed in the playoffs.

The difference Preacher can be that we don't have to live (and die) by that, but let it be the starting point of a balanced offense. And now, unlike most of Cowher's tenure, we have an elite QB that can take control of the game when necessary. We need an OC that can bring balance to the force! LOL We have the personnel to be able to play run or pass very well if we have an OC astute enough to gameplan accordingly and be able to analyze what's happening in the games and adjust accordingly.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 05:31 PM
Referring to the Steelers, or any super bowl champion in general?

Both.

The only team that has been a run dominated team and won the SB was the Ravens this decade.

It has been teams that are balanced which win the SB.

I formation, power football and 3 yards and a cloud of mediocrity is not winning football.

3 yards and a cloud of dust, followed by an empty set, followed by I formation, followed by I formation, followed by 3 wide, followed by . . . is the way to the SB. Balance.

That way, if we get into a game like we had Thursday night, we can go predominantly I formation and still win by running the ball. But ALSO, if we get into a game like last year's SB, or about 5 of last years games, we can move the ball down the field when our run game has been stuffed.

BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE.

The I is not a fix all elixir. It is part of a larger concoction of offensive plays that together, will bring victory in SB's.

xbroughneck
12-12-2009, 05:37 PM
Both.


The I is not a fix all elixir. It is part of a larger concoction of offensive plays that together, will bring victory in SB's.


Oh, I agree. Balance is ideal.

The I formation is just a personal preference. If the offensive line can successfully run block from a single back set I'm all for that. If we can run Arians offense and win a super bowl I accept it.

My main problem with Arians is his apparent inability to adjust to gameday variables.

I thought he called a pretty good Raider game.

Then he ignored the environments and called a horrible Brown game.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 05:43 PM
Oh, I agree. Balance is ideal.

The I formation is just a personal preference. If the offensive line can successfully run block from a single back set I'm all for that. If we can run Arians offense and win a super bowl I accept it.

My main problem with Arians is his apparent inability to adjust to gameday variables.

I thought he called a pretty good Raider game.

Then he ignored the environments and called a horrible Brown game.

:thumbsup:

We are on the exact same page then.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 05:43 PM
The difference Preacher can be that we don't have to live (and die) by that, but let it be the starting point of a balanced offense. And now, unlike most of Cowher's tenure, we have an elite QB that can take control of the game when necessary. We need an OC that can bring balance to the force! LOL We have the personnel to be able to play run or pass very well if we have an OC astute enough to gameplan accordingly and be able to analyze what's happening in the games and adjust accordingly.

And with you too.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-12-2009, 05:49 PM
Interesting thing is that the 2002 Steelers vs. Browns game is on NFL network yesterday and today. The Browns offense of '02 looks a lot like the current Steeler Offense. Single back sets or empty sets, throw it all around and not be able to establish the run. Score and get off the field, or 3 and out and get off the field.

It put the 2002 Browns defense and the current Steelers defense on the field a lot and failed to control the clock which gave opposing offenses time to come back and drive for winning scores. Having a solid running game and committing to it doesnt mean abandoning the pass........it means you can go play action off of it. I much rather enjoyed the offensive success of Whiz, Mularkey, Gailey than that of the current regime.

STEELAMANIA
12-12-2009, 05:53 PM
We won a friggin superbowl with Bruce Arians........ jee whiz guys, Bruce Arians is a genious!!!!! When the Steelers were 6-2, everyone was singing Arians praises....it all boils down to execution and I think Ward is getting slower and we need more speed in the WR lineup.....

mesaSteeler
12-12-2009, 05:54 PM
Interesting thing is that the 2002 Steelers vs. Browns game is on NFL network yesterday and today. The Browns offense of '02 looks a lot like the current Steeler Offense. Single back sets or empty sets, throw it all around and not be able to establish the run. Score and get off the field, or 3 and out and get off the field.

It put the 2002 Browns defense and the current Steelers defense on the field a lot and failed to control the clock which gave opposing offenses time to come back and drive for winning scores. Having a solid running game and committing to it doesnt mean abandoning the pass........it means you can go play action off of it. I much rather enjoyed the offensive success of Whiz, Mularkey, Gailey than that of the current regime.

Excellent observation. I was watching the game during lunch while consuming a hot dog from Pittsburgh Willys. (a fine establishment in Chandler Arizona). Thinking back on the game you are absolutely correct. The Browns offense then looks like the Steelers offense now. The idea of controlling the clock is as completely foreign to Ariains as is using a fullback.

cakmakli
12-12-2009, 06:00 PM
Let's see what happened when the 2008 - 2009 Penguins changed coaches.

Record under Therrien 27 - 25 - 5

Record under Bylsma 18 - 3 -4.

Under Bylsma in just two months they went from 10th to 4th and then to a Championship.

If any of the Steeler coaches, to include Arians, can't motivate their players to execute or get them to work together then they need to go. If the Pens had said, well we know we have problems. We have the team to win with but the players just ain't executing. They lack a desire to win. They are not working together. It's not the coach, it's the players. We can't get rid of Therrien after all under his leadership we went to the Stanley Cup.

Thank God Mario would have none of that. If Therrien isn't getting the job done then he's got to go and we'll get someone else that can.

Well Arians isn't getting the job done. Let's get someone who can.

WH
12-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Let's see what happened when the 2008 - 2009 Penguins changed coaches.

Record under Terrien 27 - 25 - 5

Record under Bylsma 18 - 3 -4.

Under Bylsma in just two months they went from 10th to 4th and then to a Championship.

If any of the Steeler coaches, to include Arians, can't motivate their players to execute or get them to work together then they need to go. If the Pens had said, well we know we have problems. We have the team to win with but the players just ain't executing. They lack a desire to win. They are not working together. It's not the coach, it's the players. We can't get rid of Terrien after all under his leadership we went to the Stanley Cup.

Thank God Mario would have none of that. If Terrien isn't getting the job done then he's got to go and we'll get someone else that can.

Well Arians isn't getting the job done. Let's get someone who can.

It's too bad the Steelers don't play 82 games and can get away with throwing there coaches under the bus (I'm 100% glad the did though) like they did with Therrien.

Mario should have gotten rid of Therrien when the Pens had the Player only meeting. But then maybe the Pens right the ship too quickly and coast into the playoffs with the #1 spot, become complacent and now I have drive 4 hours to Stockholm to see Henrik Zetterberg lift the cup 2 years in a row. You cut it close Mario, you cut it close.


It's odd that Therrien comes up in this discussion. He was a coach that was terrible at making gametime adjustments....like Arians. And is a great developmental coach,...like Arians, so Ben says.

Maybe some people just shouldn't be at the helm.

ricardisimo
12-12-2009, 10:47 PM
We won a friggin superbowl with Bruce Arians........ jee whiz guys, Bruce Arians is a genious!!!!! When the Steelers were 6-2, everyone was singing Arians praises....it all boils down to execution and I think Ward is getting slower and we need more speed in the WR lineup.....

I'm not sure who this "everyone" is to whom you are referring, but I'm pretty certain that one of the main themes of the year - all year, win or lose - is that we weren't playing "Steelers football".

ricardisimo
12-13-2009, 12:35 AM
It's easy to be a good OC when you are throwing the ball to Chris Carter, Randy Moss and company.
...and Jake Reed. Plus with Robert Smith running the ball.

He never built any semblance of an offense with Baltimore though.
I'm sure it is. However, they all stayed the next year, when he left for Baltimore, and their production went down by something like 200 total points. Furthermore, I would suggest to you that Ben is a better QB than Randall Cunningham,

Hines does a nice Cris Carter impression, and RushHard might very soon become a perennial Pro Bowler, if actually utilized. Neither 'Tone nor Wallace is any sort of Randy Moss, but neither was Randy Moss any sort of Randy Moss when he was in Oakland. Either one of them could easily become way better players than Jake Reed, with some more nurturing. I'll remind you that our current receiving corps has two Super Bowl MVPs, while the Vikings (and Ravens) have zero in their entire history.

My point is that he could do just as nicely with a really special bunch of offensive players in Pittsburgh. It's a moot point, of course... he's not leaving the Boob Toob for anything less than a head coaching position. Period. I mentioned his name to see if it would get a rise out of anyone (or better yet, start a nice, juicy rumor in the blogosphere that would spill over to the ESPN NFL report.)

ricardisimo
12-13-2009, 01:08 AM
Having an unbalanced offense doesn't seem to be an issue for the Colts.

They're 2nd in passing and 32nd in running!!! No less

How come their opponents can't defend against their passing schemes?

The Steelers are far away from such a flawless execution. Is it just me or does Ben look like he's on the verge of being either sacked, tipped or intercepted 90% of the time?
The Colts are a special case for at least these reasons:

Manning;
their RBs haven't been right all season;
Manning;
they've been involved in honest-to-goodness shootouts (both Texans games, Patriots) whereas we really haven't;
Manning.

Besides, go back and see just how many empty set formations they run, healthy RBs or not. You know, there are reasons why Manning has been almost completely untouched all season, and him being really good is only half of it. They also make a concerted effort toward protecting their franchise/HOF QB. We don't. That's on Arians, execution or no execution, and nobody can say different.

Does anyone really think not putting RushHard or David Johnson back to pick up the blitz and pull up the safeties is a question of execution? How can you execute on the bench?

Preacher
12-13-2009, 02:09 AM
Does anyone really think not putting RushHard or David Johnson back to pick up the blitz and pull up the safeties is a question of execution? How can you execute on the bench?

Because there is NO WAY 3 RUSHING LINEMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO SACK THE QB.

Yeah... 3 RUSHERS against 5, and they got a sack.

That.... is execution.

Not everything is execution. But THAT IS.

WH
12-13-2009, 03:53 AM
The Colts are a special case for at least these reasons:

Manning;
their RBs haven't been right all season;
Manning;
they've been involved in honest-to-goodness shootouts (both Texans games, Patriots) whereas we really haven't;
Manning.

Besides, go back and see just how many empty set formations they run, healthy RBs or not. You know, there are reasons why Manning has been almost completely untouched all season, and him being really good is only half of it. They also make a concerted effort toward protecting their franchise/HOF QB. We don't. That's on Arians, execution or no execution, and nobody can say different.

Does anyone really think not putting RushHard or David Johnson back to pick up the blitz and pull up the safeties is a question of execution? How can you execute on the bench?

Don't forget Manning.

zulater
12-13-2009, 05:46 AM
We won a friggin superbowl with Bruce Arians........ jee whiz guys, Bruce Arians is a genious!!!!! When the Steelers were 6-2, everyone was singing Arians praises....it all boils down to execution and I think Ward is getting slower and we need more speed in the WR lineup.....

Geez I must have missed that when everyone was singing "Arains praises". Here's a good clue to anyone who doesn't think Arains is part of the problem. The Steelers beat the Cardinals in the Super Bowl, but who's OC was it that was a hot commodity in the head coaching market? Here's another clue for you. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't give you a lifetime of equity. Just ask George Seifert, Mike Matz ( as an OC) Brian Billick etc... I'll give you one more clue. Go rewatch the 2005 AFC playoffs. Watch how Ken Whisenhunt called a game. The Steelers played 3 very good teams on the road in those playoffs, and Whisenhunt had those teams on their heels and guessing wrong through most of those 3 games. Ben had a sub par Super Bowl, but Whisenhunt still found a way to put points on the scoreboard.

Bottom line, there's not another NFL team or even a major division 1 college program that would employ Arains as OC. Except for the Steelers. :banging:

HometownGal
12-13-2009, 05:59 AM
When the Steelers were 6-2, everyone was singing Arians praises....it all boils down to execution and I think Ward is getting slower and we need more speed in the WR lineup.....

There were very few people around here, even when the Steelers were putting up 27+ points on the board over a 5 game stretch, that gave BA any credit whatsoever for those offensive outputs and wins. BUT - every time the Steelers have lost a game this season, it's Arians fault. You do the math.

I have always been in BA's corner but his playcalling in the Cleveland game was a debacle to say the least. I don't blame him totally for that loss, as the entire team just looked plain flat, but I put a lot of the blame on his shoulders as he just didn't adjust the entire game. And yes - I do agree with you somewhat that execution has been a problem for the Steelers on all sides of the ball this season.

Ward has never been a speedster, but he is still playing at a top level and is having one of his best seasons ever. Santo and Wallace are both very quick - don't know what games you've been watchin'. :noidea:

If Arians gets the heave ho at season's end, so be it. I trust the FO and Tomlin to do what is best overall for the team.