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ZornToLargent
01-27-2006, 05:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060125

The Bus isn't one of the best

By David Schoenfield
Page 2

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nfl/2005/1201/photo/w_bettis_195.jpg
Bettis has averaged more than 4 yards a carry just once in the past eight seasons. (William R. Amatucci Sr./WireImage.com)

This is Jerome Bettis' Super Bowl.

Here's Jerome on the Sunday Conversation.

Here's Jerome's mom and dad.

Here's another replay of Jerome's near-tragic fumble against the Colts.

Please ? stop. Enough already! All these stories about The Bus are giving me a headache.

Look, it's a nice story: After 13 years in the league (the last 10 with the Steelers), the popular and well-liked Bettis finally makes a Super Bowl in what likely will be the final game of his career -- and the game is being played in his hometown of Detroit, no less.

Cue cameras, interviews, the great nickname, two weeks of pregame hype, and by game day you'll know more about Bettis than you know about your own kids.

But let's be honest here. This isn't Walter Payton finally making Super Bowl XX late in his career.

Nonetheless, this is the over-the-top buildup we're already getting. I heard at least five different announcers/pundits/experts call Bettis one of the greatest running backs of all time -- and that was just on the day the Steelers won the AFC championship. I've heard more than one announcer/pundit/expert refer to Bettis as one of the five greatest running backs of all time.

Now, it's true that Bettis is fifth on the all-time rushing list with 13,662 yards, trailing only Emmitt Smith, Payton, Barry Sanders and Curtis Martin. But do you really think he's a greater running back than Jim Brown? Or Marshall Faulk? Or Marcus Allen, Thurman Thomas, O.J. Simpson or Earl Campbell? I could go on. I could list current stalwarts like LaDainian Tomlinson, Edgerrin James, Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander.

Before Steelers fans wrap me in their Terrible Towels and stuff me into a desk drawer in my cubicle, let me say that Bettis is going to make the Hall of Fame. He's been extremely durable at a position where we often see brief flashes of brilliance, Terrell Davis and Jamal Anderson being prime examples. He's been good enough to play in six Pro Bowls (although three of those weren't deserved).

What he hasn't been, for most of his career, is great.

He's rushed for over 1,500 yards just once. (Of the top 50 individual rushing seasons of all time, Bettis has just one.)

With his bowling-ball physique, he's supposed to be especially effective at the goal line. Yet he has scored more than 10 touchdowns in a season just twice. (He has 91 career touchdowns in 192 games; by way of comparison, his Super Bowl opponent, Alexander, has 89 TDs in just 96 games.)

His career rushing average is a meager 3.9 yards per carry, and he's averaged over 4 yards per carry just four times in 13 seasons. (Of the top 50 rushers of all time in terms of career yardage, only Eddie George and Rodney Hampton have averaged less than 3.9 yards per carry.)

Steelers fans are probably crying that Bettis' yards-per-carry average is low because he hasn't had the luxury of playing with any great quarterbacks before Ben Roethlisberger. OK, but consider this: Since joining the Steelers in 1996, Bettis has carried 2,683 times for 10,571 yards, averaging 3.93 yards per carry; all other Steelers running backs -- guys like Erric Pegram, Richard Huntley, Amos Zereoue, Chris Fuamatu-Ma'afala and Willie Parker -- have rushed 1,780 times for 7,793 yards, or 4.38 yards per carry.

So Bettis, supposedly one of the greatest running backs of all time, has actually averaged nearly half a yard less per carry than a motley collection of backups and fullbacks. Even if you take away 200 carries (and leave his yards gained the same), since you might argue he carried so often in short-yardage situations, his average jumps to 4.26 -- still less than his teammates running behind the same offensive line.

Here's the bottom line as you see Bettis featured on "Good Morning America," "The Daily Show" and "Emeril Live!" over the next week: He's Don Sutton or Harold Baines, a good running back who played a long time to compile some impressive career statistics.

But he is not one of the five or 10 or 15 or 25 greatest running backs of all time.

His nickname, however, ranks right up there.

David Schoenfield is the lead editor of Page 2.

Ambridge
01-27-2006, 06:04 PM
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/page2/v2/columnist/schoenfield_35x48.jpg
David Schoenfield

That's about one of the most assinine pieces of crap I've ever read.
He looks about as stupid as his article.

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 06:07 PM
I kinda gotta agree with the article... Everytime I turn on ESPN there is another story on Bettis. He IS my favorite player, but seriously, enough is enough. I love him, but its getting to the point where he is a washed up fat running back 10 years past his prime. Save the sob story for the pussies that care. I want to hear about football.

Go SteelCrew

tony hipchest
01-27-2006, 06:08 PM
hater. lets see david schoenfield tackle him. bettis has shortened careers. r. lewis' ass is worn out from so many years of riding the bus. takeo spikes couldnt wait to leave the division. the browns d are the only ones smart enough to not tackle him. they thought theyd find a safehaven in denver. WRONG! lol

specialbus
01-27-2006, 06:08 PM
I have read a lot of BS over the years, but this takes the cake. What planet is this guy from? Let's see what he thinks of Da Bus after Sunday!!

Brady12
01-27-2006, 06:20 PM
I just looked at the title, i didn't read the article, so im guessing the title is what the article is about. HOW THE HELL IS SOMEONE WITH OVER 13K rushing yards in their career not one of the best. What a dumbass column.


EDIT: I guess this guy also thinks Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Curtis Martin, and Eric D?ckerson all aren't the best either?

BB2W
01-27-2006, 06:23 PM
Not in the top 25 of all-time... I suppose they should just say top 100 of all time and put Curt Warner ahead of him too, huh.

:laughing:

drizze99
01-27-2006, 06:33 PM
I think ZtL and this columnist are drinking a little too much of this...

http://www.itscollege.com/images/hatorade.jpg

jaysta
01-27-2006, 06:38 PM
I can't believe that David Schoenfield can be a Steelers fan and write that. I'm sure throughout his career that his stats aren't at the very top of every category, but come on, there's more to it than that. Let me give you a perfect example. Years ago I worked for another team in the league (which I will keep anonymous since I am a diehard Steelers fan and could end up working in the league again someday). Anyhow, I was on my way to the field at the end of halftime when I saw the Bus in the hallway outside of the visitors locker room leaving after everyone else. He was hobbling and looked to be in obvious pain. I asked him if he was OK to which he responded kindly that he was fine and tried to walk straight. At that point I figured we had a pretty easy second half against the Steelers. Man was I wrong. He found some sort of second wind and ran all over us and basically won the game for the Steelers. This was a few years ago, but my thought at the time was, if this guy isn't the best than who is.

jaysta
01-27-2006, 06:47 PM
Not to mention who do you think the Steelers rode through the playoffs. Willie P? Please!

Tha rock
01-27-2006, 06:50 PM
that is pretty damn stupid!!

SteelersGal17
01-27-2006, 07:07 PM
ok...that's the most unbelievable article that I've ever read.

Ok, yeah, everywhere you go, they are talking about Bettis, but I love hearing about this guy.....one of the best players I've ever seen and shows so much heart while playing. Hearing about this is a good feeling to me. He's going home, to Detroit, and playing in one of the most important games in his life...and that this would be a very great ending to a fabulous story

BlitzburghRockCity
01-27-2006, 07:10 PM
What a stupid ass article, I have half a notion to close this damn thread for blasphemy !

LambertIsGod58
01-27-2006, 07:17 PM
If he can't play, what are these numbers as a starter last year for 6 gms?


| Jerome Bettis career stats | 2004 Pittsburgh Steelers |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+
| 1 oak | 5 1 | 0 | 3 |
| 3 mia | 7 12 | 0 | 0 |
| 4 cin | 6 9 | 0 | 2 |
| 5 cle | 14 34 | 0 | 1 |
| 6 dal | 5 8 | 0 | 1 |
| 8 nwe | 15 65 | 0 | 1 |
| 9 phi | 33 149 | 0 | 0 |
| 10 cle | 29 103 | 7 | 2 |
| 11 cin | 29 129 | 3 | 0 |
| 12 was | 31 100 | 20 | 1 |
| 13 jax | 3 17 | 0 | 0 |
| 14 nyj | 10 57 | 0 | 1 |
| 15 nyg | 36 140 | 3 | 1 |
| 16 bal | 27 117 | 13 | 0 |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+
| TOTAL | 250 941 | 46 | 13 |
+----------+-------------+--------+----+

LambertIsGod58
01-27-2006, 07:19 PM
I can't ****in' stand the BS....Gale Sayers has 1/2 the yards Bettis and is in the Hall of Fame. How bout' Terrell Davis? Does he belong in the Hall? 5th All Time says enough not to mention one of the classiest of our era.

dmewalt
01-27-2006, 07:24 PM
This "Bus" hype is driven for so many other reasons, not just because of statistical running back numbers, that obviously he took the time to refresh for us . This is about a human who has great character that goes beyond the game. He's kept his nose clean by not being a weekly story for doing drugs or attacking some girl in a hotel room. He's donated alot to charity and that goes for charity in Pittsburgh and his home town. Feel free to research it. He is a mentor to the younger players, he's a Notre Dame alumni, he is well spoken and articulate. He has stayed faithful to a football team and a town that adore him, when he could have left for much more pay. He is the bluecollar, working man or woman's hero. He's a midwesterner, he's thicker for a damn good reason. He always has a smile on his face and he's never been afraid to admit he's wrong. He also doesn't showboat in the end zone with some stupid dance or some chicken move. He shakes his head back and forth like a lion shaking off the dust after the kill. He is the Cinderella Man and that's why Mr. Schoenfield you must endure so much of Jerome Bettis. The beauty of the "Bus" is that he won't be forgotten and when people, especially the people of Pittsburgh talk about the "Bus" , I bet they will remember his character, he was a great human being, and a really good running back. Go Black and Gold!!!!

BlitzburghRockCity
01-27-2006, 07:27 PM
REally considering closing this bullshit thread just becuz its total crap and because there's ZERO credability to it.. the only thing saving it right now is letting everyone else comment on it for alittle bit to see what kinda stupid articles this jackoff writes !!

LambertIsGod58
01-27-2006, 07:27 PM
This "Bus" hype is driven for so many other reasons, not just because of statistical running back numbers, that obviously he took the time to refresh for us . This is about a human who has great character that goes beyond the game. He's kept his nose clean by not being a weekly story for doing drugs or attacking some girl in a hotel room. He's donated alot to charity and that goes for charity in Pittsburgh and his home town. Feel free to research it. He is a mentor to the younger players, he's a Notre Dame alumni, he is well spoken and articulate. He has stayed faithful to a football team and a town that adore him, when he could have left for much more pay. He is the bluecollar, working man or woman's hero. He's a midwesterner, he's thicker for a damn good reason. He always has a smile on his face and he's never been afraid to admit he's wrong. He also doesn't showboat in the end zone with some stupid dance or some chicken move. He shakes his head back and forth like a lion shaking off the dust after the kill. He is the Cinderella Man and that's why Mr. Schoenfield you must endure so much of Jerome Bettis. The beauty of the "Bus" is that he won't be forgotten and when people, especially the people of Pittsburgh talk about the "Bus" , I bet they will remember his character, he was a great human being, and a really good running back. Go Black and Gold!!!!

Very well said....

VegasStlrFan
01-27-2006, 07:38 PM
Save the stat crap for baseball. Lets not forget he has been on a one dimensional offense his entire career. Half of those listed had other offensive weapons on their teams for opposing defenses to focus on. I'm a little tired of the Bettis hype myself, but the BUS is a class act that has performed on and off the field. This ass wants to be a shock jock and anyone who buys his crap doesn't understand that being a great player is more than just stats. The BUS has respectable #'s, been a great team player (done everything he's been asked), shown team loyalty (how often does that happen anymore), and even more important he has been great for the game of football. What else do you want???? Nobody has ever said he is the Best ever, one of the Best definetely!

24seven
01-27-2006, 07:42 PM
I think it should at least be moved to the blastfurnace.. the ****** who posted this is a Seahawks fan and it was only posted to rub it in. Get it out of here before i puke.. Just wish it would land on that seasucks fan and that dumbass writer...

shevdog
01-27-2006, 07:47 PM
What a bunch of hot air!

Big deal the average yards per carry isn't super high. 5th all-time rushing and 87 td's merits Jermone a spot in Canton. If anythign I agree on with this dude is that there is too much press on the bus. You know what, I'm loving it and don't really care.

blitzburghXL
01-27-2006, 08:30 PM
My jaw actually dropped when i read that article... The Bus has been the heart&soul of Pittsburgh and the Steelers Organization for the last ten years, and for this idiot columnist who's only trying to get some press to say something like that is OUTRAGEOUS! I hope for his sake he's not planning on coming to Pittsburgh anytime soon.

ZornToLargent
01-27-2006, 08:36 PM
I think it should at least be moved to the blastfurnace.. the ****** who posted this is a Seahawks fan and it was only posted to rub it in. Get it out of here before i puke.. Just wish it would land on that seasucks fan and that dumbass writer...
Come on now....I know the Steelers Nation is stronger than this.

Yes, I am a Seahawks fan who posted this.....as I would assume any of you would post a similiar article ona a 'Hawks board if you found one.

Nothing this ass hat (the writter of the article) said will matter much on Super Bowl Sunday.

Good luck guys (but not too much). :D

louisvillecards
01-27-2006, 08:44 PM
I kinda gotta agree with the article... Everytime I turn on ESPN there is another story on Bettis. He IS my favorite player, but seriously, enough is enough. I love him, but its getting to the point where he is a washed up fat running back 10 years past his prime. Save the sob story for the pussies that care. I want to hear about football.

Go SteelCrew
go away troll you fool no one:blah:

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 09:06 PM
go away troll you fool no one:blah:


I cant have an opinion on the matter? WTF is your problem. We are going to the Superbowl, Cheer up

Go Steelers

clevestinks
01-27-2006, 09:30 PM
Da Bus not one of the all time best? Hog wash

3 to be 4
01-27-2006, 10:02 PM
I cant have an opinion on the matter? WTF is your problem. We are going to the Superbowl, Cheer up

Go Steelers


wow this IS ironic, Maniac.

McMillen didnt believe I was a Patriots fan. these guys arent believing you are a Steelers fan. See what happens when you try to be objective and balanced.

for what its worth everybody, I KNOW this guy from another board. He IS THE TRUEST
STEELER FAN YOU'LL FIND

3 to be 4
01-27-2006, 10:20 PM
hate to say it, but its not a knock to say the guy is a hall of famer and probably about the 20th best back ever. The writer backed up his article with valid stats. I know as a Patriots fan i never went into a game with the Steelers fearing Bettis. Not in 1996, 1997,2001, or 2004.
Its not a knock, its just the honest truth. Great great guy, a hall of famer. But outside of Pittsburgh hes not seen as a guy who dominated an era. sorry.
i think you had a better one in Franco Harris.

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 10:22 PM
hate to say it, but its not a knock to say the guy is a hall of famer and probably about the 20th best back ever. The writer backed up his article with valid stats. I know as a Patriots fan i never went into a game with the Steelers fearing Bettis. Not in 1996, 1997,2001, or 2004.
Its not a knock, its just the honest truth. Great great guy, a hall of famer. But outside of Pittsburgh hes not seen as a guy who dominated an era. sorry.
i think you had a better one in Franco Harris.


Exactly... the bus is a Great Man and definitely a hall of famer. But the author is fair.

Big7Ben
01-27-2006, 10:32 PM
I beg to differ.. The Bus is awesome..

3 to be 4
01-27-2006, 10:34 PM
yes. he is awesome. a hall of famer. and about the 18th or 20th best of all time

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-27-2006, 10:36 PM
wow this IS ironic, Maniac.

McMillen didnt believe I was a Patriots fan. these guys arent believing you are a Steelers fan. See what happens when you try to be objective and balanced.

for what its worth everybody, I KNOW this guy from another board. He IS THE TRUEST
STEELER FAN YOU'LL FIND
Who wants balanced and objective?? The real Steelers fans don't need that!! I do respect your posts, 3 to 4, but as much doubt as this "manic" is showing in the Steelers is only showing that he isn't a TRUE Steeler fan. I believe his true colors are like yours,red, white and blue or possibly seafoam green and whatever other colors them hawkers wear. And yes he is entitled to an opinion and ya know what they say about opinions...

BlitzburghRockCity
01-27-2006, 10:36 PM
Please 18 or 20 best of all time!! you have got to be kidding me... that's beneath even you man.

the 5th all time leading rusher and argueably the best BIG back to every play the game.

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 10:52 PM
Please 18 or 20 best of all time!! you have got to be kidding me... that's beneath even you man.

the 5th all time leading rusher and argueably the best BIG back to every play the game.


AGREED!!!! He is the best BIG back to ever step on the Gridiron.... but, imo there are better rushers than the Bus... who by the way is my favorit Player.

3 to be 4
01-27-2006, 10:53 PM
Please 18 or 20 best of all time!! you have got to be kidding me... that's beneath even you man.

the 5th all time leading rusher and argueably the best BIG back to every play the game.


ok, let me list some running backs. Please tell me which one Bettis is better than.

Jim Brown
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Earl Campbell
Eric ****erson
Tony Dorsett
Franco Harris
Marcus Allen
Marshall Faulk
Gayle Sayers
John Riggins
and throw in

L.Tomlinson
Priest Holmes
Edgerrin James

and others comparable like Curtis Martin. So maybe he could get in around #15.

but to even crack the top 10 you need to name me 8 guys from that list to throw out.

c'mon now

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 10:55 PM
ok, let me list some running backs. Please tell me which one Bettis is better than.

Jim Brown
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Earl Campbell
Eric ****erson
Tony Dorsett
Franco Harris
Marcus Allen
Marshall Faulk
Gayle Sayers
John Riggins
and throw in

L.Tomlinson
Priest Holmes
Edgerrin James

and others comparable like Curtis Martin. So maybe he could get in around #15.

but to even crack the top 10 you need to name me 8 guys from that list to throw out.

c'mon now

Good work, point proven!

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-27-2006, 11:15 PM
ok, let me list some running backs. Please tell me which one Bettis is better than.

Jim Brown
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Earl Campbell
Eric ****erson
Tony Dorsett
Franco Harris
Marcus Allen
Marshall Faulk
Gayle Sayers
John Riggins
and throw in

L.Tomlinson
Priest Holmes
Edgerrin James

and others comparable like Curtis Martin. So maybe he could get in around #15.

but to even crack the top 10 you need to name me 8 guys from that list to throw out.

c'mon now

OK let's compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges: Big to big and Fleet to fleet, I'm not going to compare the fleetbacks, the small ,fast elusive backs to Bettis . How bout the big, power,bluecollar backs on your list. Now your list looks like this, in no particular order:
Jim Brown
John Riggins
Franco
Earl Campbell
Bettis
TOP FIVE EASILY !! CASE CLOSED!!

3 to be 4
01-27-2006, 11:19 PM
OK let's compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges: Big to big and Fleet to fleet, I'm not going to compare the fleetbacks, the small ,fast elusive backs to Bettis . How bout the big, power,bluecollar backs on your list. Now your list looks like this, in no particular order:
Jim Brown
John Riggins
Franco
Earl Campbell
Bettis
TOP FIVE EASILY !! CASE CLOSED!!



HAHAHAHAHAHA. that was classic.. Just change the parameters of the arguement.

alright, i give you the Capt Kirk award for creative cheating. Bettis barely makes the top 5 of the alltime big, power, bluecollar backs.

steelermaniac
01-27-2006, 11:21 PM
there is a difference... best back and best BIG back to ever play!

Is mike vick the best QB to ever play? NO! is he the best running QB to ever play? YES

you see the difference!

BlitzburghRockCity
01-27-2006, 11:40 PM
ok, let me list some running backs. Please tell me which one Bettis is better than.

Jim Brown
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Earl Campbell
Eric ****erson
Tony Dorsett
Franco Harris
Marcus Allen
Marshall Faulk
Gayle Sayers
John Riggins
and throw in

L.Tomlinson
Priest Holmes
Edgerrin James

and others comparable like Curtis Martin. So maybe he could get in around #15.

but to even crack the top 10 you need to name me 8 guys from that list to throw out.

c'mon now


I will highlight in the blue the ones that Bettis is better than. My opinion of course but I dont think I'll be alone in these.

There is more than 8 for you.. Most of those players Bettis has passed in career yardage that automatically puts him over them in most categories. What he has meant to this team and the career he's had with us and the rams far outweighs alot of categories. That whole different era thing too when there wasnt free agency, or there wasnt as much passing, or it was a different style of football doesnt hold much water with me. Everyone of those RB's you mentioned were awesome in their day and all are the best of all time. But when you're comparing apples to apples here, Bettis has more career yards than most of them and when the game is on the line there is no one I want more on my team to get me that last 3rd down to seal the victory, or to get me within FG range to save the day. It was hard to not put him of Franco, but I think Harris from a sentimental Steeler value should stay listed.. just my .02 on that perspective there.

Notice I didnt mark him above the current players u mentioned because they are still playing so therefor they are in the prime of their career so thats apples to oranges instead of apples to apples.

but of all those retired RB's u mentioned, I would take Bettis over most of them.

Great stuff, nice list from you :smile:

iuprell67
01-27-2006, 11:41 PM
Gee, I wonder why David Schoenfield is on page two and not page one.

seahawksfan
01-27-2006, 11:45 PM
ya know what they say about opinions...

We're all a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s on this bus (no pun intended).

seahawksfan
01-27-2006, 11:50 PM
I will highlight in the blue the ones that Bettis is better than. My opinion of course but I dont think I'll be alone in these.

There is more than 8 for you.. Most of those players Bettis has passed in career yardage that automatically puts him over them in most categories. What he has meant to this team and the career he's had with us and the rams far outweighs alot of categories. That whole different era thing too when there wasnt free agency, or there wasnt as much passing, or it was a different style of football doesnt hold much water with me. Everyone of those RB's you mentioned were awesome in their day and all are the best of all time. But when you're comparing apples to apples here, Bettis has more career yards than most of them and when the game is on the line there is no one I want more on my team to get me that last 3rd down to seal the victory, or to get me within FG range to save the day. It was hard to not put him of Franco, but I think Harris from a sentimental Steeler value should stay listed.. just my .02 on that perspective there.

Notice I didnt mark him above the current players u mentioned because they are still playing so therefor they are in the prime of their career so thats apples to oranges instead of apples to apples.

but of all those retired RB's u mentioned, I would take Bettis over most of them.

Great stuff, nice list from you :smile:

Man, I don't know, there are some running backs listed that I'd take over Bettis for the reason that some of these runners were multi-dimensional and could do more within a game plan. Bettis was/is a brute and his legacy is this. Sure, he means everything to the Steeler fan. I salivate at having a team that features some of these guys.

Da'Burgh
01-28-2006, 12:22 AM
Edgerrin James? CMON! Are you saying he's any better than Jerome? You guys must not be thinking of past Jerome, but end of career Jerome... Give him his credit. You won't hear any of it after the Super Bowl (whether we win or lose) so let him have his time. This is a bunch of shit.

BTW, I just played a game against a Bungles fan on XBOX 360 online and he was yappin my ear off about the Bengals and was crying about the Palmer thing.:blah: He ended up beating me which pissed me off.

So... when I saw this is put me over the edge. This trash doesn't even deserve a spot on the Steeler forum. I could care less how many time Zorg or wtf his name is tries to save his own ass.

pitt
01-28-2006, 12:37 AM
[QUOTE=ZornToLargent]Now, it's true that Bettis is fifth on the all-time rushing list with 13,662 yards, trailing only Emmitt Smith, Payton, Barry Sanders and Curtis Martin. But do you really think he's a greater running back than Jim Brown? Or Marshall Faulk? Or Marcus Allen, Thurman Thomas, O.J. Simpson or Earl Campbell? I could go on. I could list current stalwarts like LaDainian Tomlinson, Edgerrin James, Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander.[/QUOTE


Lets see do I really think Jeromes greater than those other running backs...hmmmm.....
yes Yes YEs YES

BlitzburghRockCity
01-28-2006, 12:55 AM
Man, I don't know, there are some running backs listed that I'd take over Bettis for the reason that some of these runners were multi-dimensional and could do more within a game plan. Bettis was/is a brute and his legacy is this. Sure, he means everything to the Steeler fan. I salivate at having a team that features some of these guys.


It wasnt an easy call and actually I thought about it more than I thought I would when I first started replying. Hence the reason I didnt check barry sanders, emmit, or payton.. those guys were definately multi dimensional..as were others that I checked..but the reason i put Bus over some of them was that in his prime he'd be catching swing passes and screens like the rest of them so that added to it for me.

Cebby
01-28-2006, 01:15 AM
Yes, I am a Seahawks fan who posted this.....as I would assume any of you would post a similiar article ona a 'Hawks board if you found one.

We looked for an article. It appears that there's nothing to write about. :blurp:

BTW, that article is crap. That pud-pounding armchair d-bag needs to line up across from Bettis once...

Milkman
01-28-2006, 01:33 AM
Just remember that even these weak-ass writers have to find something to write about.
He's just a hater and we shouldn't even care about what that assjack writes since we all have our own opinions of the BUS!!!

I have always liked Jerome, but have always craved to have a complete RB in the Steeler backfield. (i.e. Tomlinson, Edge, or Priest)

Now is a golden chance for the BUS to cement his legacy in the history of the NFL!

CASTEEL
01-28-2006, 01:41 AM
Isn't One of the Best.... My ASS!!!!

UGH.... I hate that article.....what's the point??? Is the author trying to give us all a reality check, enlighten us, enrage us........ (the last is what they are trying to do, that piece of shit page 2 is only there to be shock journalism....)

**** 'em!!! That article has too many numbers being thrown around, and while many will say numbers don't lie, they don't always include all of the facts!!!

For instance, how many of those yards were HARD FOUGHT first downs....they don't disclose that kind of shit in the stats.....they don't include how many defenders Jermome carries on his back for those yards.....they don't include how many defenders Jerome has blown through to get a touchdown.......

**** 'em ..... the haters and nay-sayers.... Jerome IS one of the best, EVER!!!

HERE'S TO ONE FOR THE THUMB, and to ONE FOR JEROME!!!!!

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 06:03 AM
Good gravy!!!!! stats stats stats. Jerome has more yards than this guy or that guy. Great, Carl Yastzemski is better than Ted Williams then. Drew Bledsoe will end up #2 on the alltime passing yards list so hes better than Joe Montana.

Get real. Bettis is better than Jim Brown, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen....??????????
do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? fans of their local teams tend to overate their own players. Its a common tale. We do it in Boston all the time. While we have been lucky to have some greats like Russell,Williams,Orr, Bird, and now Brady, you'd be AMAZED how people within the state of Massachusetts have made first ballot hall of famers out of Mo Vaughn, Drew Bledsoe,Nomar Garciaparra,Paul Pierce.. so I know the mentality.

But man, dont embarrass yourselfs or Bettis himself by even mentioning his name in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell,Marcus Allen and guys like that.
Edgerrin James is one thing, even Eric ****erson i could have a discussion about...

But, GOOD GAWWWWWD MAN

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-28-2006, 07:09 AM
Good gravy!!!!! stats stats stats. Jerome has more yards than this guy or that guy. Great, Carl Yastzemski is better than Ted Williams then. Drew Bledsoe will end up #2 on the alltime passing yards list so hes better than Joe Montana.

Get real. Bettis is better than Jim Brown, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen....??????????
do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? fans of their local teams tend to overate their own players. Its a common tale. We do it in Boston all the time. While we have been lucky to have some greats like Russell,Williams,Orr, Bird, and now Brady, you'd be AMAZED how people within the state of Massachusetts have made first ballot hall of famers out of Mo Vaughn, Drew Bledsoe,Nomar Garciaparra,Paul Pierce.. so I know the mentality.

But man, dont embarrass yourselfs or Bettis himself by even mentioning his name in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell,Marcus Allen and guys like that.
Edgerrin James is one thing, even Eric ****erson i could have a discussion about...

But, GOOD GAWWWWWD MAN
Agreed to a small point Jim Brown is better,Marcus Allen maybe, Earl Campbell no way.EC didn't have a long enough career to be honestly compared!
Another thing why is the list of "GREAT" backs only goes back to the 60's?? I believe there was football played before then and I know there are great backs that are being left off this list. The biggest point is beauty is in the eye of the beholder ,bascially as you state. So if you come in here to post expect us to think ,and believe rightly so, that Bettis is among the best!! "homers" will always root for their team.

Animal
01-28-2006, 07:12 AM
Bettis is what he is. A great back! Among the top in the game ever. You cannot really compare players of different styles and different eras. For me, I prefer to group them all together!

But the one thing NONE of those guys will do is outclass the Bus!

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 08:36 AM
i agree. Bettis is probably the classiest and most likeable players ever.

btw, if you want to add players from before the 60's , doesnt that drop him down the list even more?

and lets hear from some old timers who saw Earl Campbell. or Gayle Sayers.
sometimes you have to throw out stats and longevity and go with our eyes.

there is just NO WAY Bettis could compare with those 2.

its like a hockey fan saying Bobby Orr wasnt that great because he only played 9 healthy seasons. And????

i could go into the Terrell Davis thing but i'll just leave that alone for now.........

MichiSteeler
01-28-2006, 11:08 AM
Sheer stupidity... What a moron..:dang:

BIGBENATWORK
01-28-2006, 01:07 PM
Let's see what he thinks after the Steelers win the Super Bowl!

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 01:09 PM
Sheer stupidity... What a moron..:dang:

Now Now be nice to him, hes a poster here like everyone else. If He thinks Bettis is a top 5 RB thats his opinion.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-28-2006, 01:51 PM
Good gravy!!!!! stats stats stats. Jerome has more yards than this guy or that guy. Great, Carl Yastzemski is better than Ted Williams then. Drew Bledsoe will end up #2 on the alltime passing yards list so hes better than Joe Montana.

Get real. Bettis is better than Jim Brown, O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen....??????????
do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? fans of their local teams tend to overate their own players. Its a common tale. We do it in Boston all the time. While we have been lucky to have some greats like Russell,Williams,Orr, Bird, and now Brady, you'd be AMAZED how people within the state of Massachusetts have made first ballot hall of famers out of Mo Vaughn, Drew Bledsoe,Nomar Garciaparra,Paul Pierce.. so I know the mentality.

But man, dont embarrass yourselfs or Bettis himself by even mentioning his name in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell,Marcus Allen and guys like that.
Edgerrin James is one thing, even Eric ****erson i could have a discussion about...

But, GOOD GAWWWWWD MAN


How can you not say that Bettis is as good or better than those guys.. he ran with just as much power, guts, and has better speed and quickness than they do. Everybody talks about.. oh the legend of jim brown, gale sayers, :blah: but I see no reason to put Bettis ahead of them when he ran the same way as they did.. with passion, conviction and committment. And oh by the way has more career rushing yards.

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 01:59 PM
How can you not say that Bettis is as good or better than those guys.. he ran with just as much power, guts, and has better speed and quickness than they do. Everybody talks about.. oh the legend of jim brown, gale sayers, :blah: but I see no reason to put Bettis ahead of them when he ran the same way as they did.. with passion, conviction and committment. And oh by the way has more career rushing yards.


Wrong. Not as much power as Jim Brown. Certainly not the speed of Jim Brown. Certainly not the speed or moves as Gayle Sayers. What films have you been watching???
have you watched any of the documentaries regarding Brown and what that man could do?? the punishment he dished out???
Earl Campbell too. Have you SEEN the footage of his MNF run vs the Dolphins??
Bettis could NEVER EVER EVER EVER run like that.

all i can think of is that either you really havent spent a lot of time watching the history of the NFL or more likely you're just B.S ing me just to have fun imagining my brain imploding.
BETTER SPEED AND QUICKNESS?????? again, GOOOD GRAVY!!!!!

augustashark
01-28-2006, 02:38 PM
All Steeler fans, this is a stupid debate. We are debating with Seahawk and Pats fans about how great our RB is.......This is stupid....Look we have two running backs that are Hof'ers. The Pats have none......And Seahawks have one (that is if they resign him). If this was a debate with Cowboys fans then I would listen. I think it is time to put this thread to bed....I can not stand talking great running backs with Pats fan!!!!! This is Superbowl week we should be talking X's and O's and what we as fans can do to help bring home the one for the thumb....Not discussing running backs with a franchise that has never one.

steelermaniac
01-28-2006, 02:54 PM
Did bettis ever get the rushing title?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20021124/450hawks25_leapalexadd.jpg
:dang:

augustashark
01-28-2006, 03:17 PM
Did bettis ever get the rushing title?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20021124/450hawks25_leapalexadd.jpg
:dang:

You should be :banned: for that kind of nonsense!!!!!

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 04:42 PM
All Steeler fans, this is a stupid debate. We are debating with Seahawk and Pats fans about how great our RB is.......This is stupid....Look we have two running backs that are Hof'ers. The Pats have none......And Seahawks have one (that is if they resign him). If this was a debate with Cowboys fans then I would listen. I think it is time to put this thread to bed....I can not stand talking great running backs with Pats fan!!!!! This is Superbowl week we should be talking X's and O's and what we as fans can do to help bring home the one for the thumb....Not discussing running backs with a franchise that has never one.


that makes sense. its a stupid debate because the Patriots dont have a HOF running back.
brilliant logic.

in other words, the debate is lost and refuge is found in the old "well, they are Patriots fans"

i'll take that as an admission the article was correct if thats all you got.

augustashark
01-28-2006, 04:48 PM
that makes sense. its a stupid debate because the Patriots dont have a HOF running back.
brilliant logic.

in other words, the debate is lost and refuge is found in the old "well, they are Patriots fans"

i'll take that as an admission the article was correct if thats all you got.

"Brilliant"....Thanks man. Thats nice of you.

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 04:57 PM
You're welcome

LambertIsGod58
01-28-2006, 05:16 PM
I love when other team's fans post more on our site than their own....Especially when all they can do is hate..........................

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 05:35 PM
I love when other team's fans post more on our site than their own....Especially when all they can do is hate..........................


hate. my, thats a very strong word dont you think? when did i hate?

hate is "I hate that guy. I wish he was dead" thats hate

its not "he a classy guy. a hall of famer. I hope he wins. Hes the 14th to 18th greatest player of all time at his position, much higher if you only include the big backs"

of all my posts, trying to be fair minded, going out of my way to call the 70's Steelers the greatest team ever. Telling you guys how knowledgable and classy this site is. Apologizing when a debate got out of hand with 2 posters.
What you get out of that is HATE?

LambertIsGod58
01-28-2006, 05:46 PM
hate. my, thats a very strong word dont you think? when did i hate?

hate is "I hate that guy. I wish he was dead" thats hate

its not "he a classy guy. a hall of famer. I hope he wins. Hes the 14th to 18th greatest player of all time at his position, much higher if you only include the big backs"

of all my posts, trying to be fair minded, going out of my way to call the 70's Steelers the greatest team ever. Telling you guys how knowledgable and classy this site is. Apologizing when a debate got out of hand with 2 posters.
What you get out of that is HATE?


Are you the ONLY fan of another team that posts on this site? Are you having a guilty conscience or something?

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 05:58 PM
Are you the ONLY fan of another team that posts on this site? Are you having a guilty conscience or something?


im the only one from another team that has been posting on this thread when you made that comment.
sounds pretty reasonable to me that you were directing that my way.

LambertIsGod58
01-28-2006, 06:32 PM
im the only one from another team that has been posting on this thread when you made that comment.
sounds pretty reasonable to me that you were directing that my way.



Check who started the thread.....

ZornToLargent
01-28-2006, 06:40 PM
Check who started the thread.....
Why do you got to be hatin' on me? We have a whole 'nother week of useless articles about both of our teams. This is all just to waste time until the big game. Have fun with it.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-28-2006, 06:42 PM
We have a whole 'nother week of useless articles about both of our teams. This is all just to waste time until the big game. Have fun with it.


by the time the game gets here both of us will know as much about each others teams strategy as the coaches do :laughing:

Da'Burgh
01-28-2006, 07:00 PM
Did bettis ever get the rushing title?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20021124/450hawks25_leapalexadd.jpg
:dang:

I thought you were a ****in Steelers fan. You're not in my eyes.

Hammer67
01-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Why do you got to be hatin' on me? We have a whole 'nother week of useless articles about both of our teams. This is all just to waste time until the big game. Have fun with it.

You have a valid point here...:bouncy:

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 08:17 PM
Check who started the thread.....


the previous 5 or 6 posts on the thread from another team were all by me and then you made that comment. gee, why would i assume it was about me??

ok, i'll take your word for it and drop it.

no e-beef tonight :bouncy:

Suitanim
01-28-2006, 10:22 PM
Bettis is the best "Big Back" in the history of the game. Jim Brown weighed 232 lbs when DL weighed 250, LB's weighed 195 lbs, and DB's weiged 160. He was big and strong and fast but he only lasted 9 years.

Earl Campbell was next. He was also 232 lbs. He lasted 8 years, but really only 6, since the last 2 were with the Saints and he was used up by then.

Bettis is 260 lbs. He's in the league for 13 years. He's still producing. Dante Culpepper outweighs him by 10 lbs.

CantStop85
01-28-2006, 10:36 PM
At this point I think Bettis is probably a top 10 and definitely a top 15 all-time back. I think top 5 would be a reach, though.

Suitanim
01-28-2006, 10:38 PM
At this point I think Bettis is probably a top 10 and definitely a top 15 all-time back. I think top 5 would be a reach, though.

I wasn't clear. Bettis may not be a top 25 all-time back at all...who cares if he is or isn't?

He's DEFINITELY a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer!

CantStop85
01-28-2006, 11:06 PM
I wasn't clear. Bettis may not be a top 25 all-time back at all...who cares if he is or isn't?

He's DEFINITELY a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer!
I wasn't replying to you...I was just making a general remark.

Regardless, he'll make the Hall of Fame all the same.

Suitanim
01-28-2006, 11:16 PM
Whoops...sorry, 85. I put you on ignore, too...That means I can't read whatever dumbass bullshit you feel is so important that you have to go over to a division rivals site and post.

3 to be 4
01-28-2006, 11:17 PM
Bettis is the best "Big Back" in the history of the game. Jim Brown weighed 232 lbs when DL weighed 250, LB's weighed 195 lbs, and DB's weiged 160. He was big and strong and fast but he only lasted 9 years.

Earl Campbell was next. He was also 232 lbs. He lasted 8 years, but really only 6, since the last 2 were with the Saints and he was used up by then.

Bettis is 260 lbs. He's in the league for 13 years. He's still producing. Dante Culpepper outweighs him by 10 lbs.


not sure the point. Brown was 232- DL 250. So Bettis is 260- if DL are 300 the ratio is the same. LB's 230. yeah, its all about equal.
Brown "lasted" 9 years. He chose to leave, he wasnt broken down or anything.
if this about who was the most durable than Bettis gets it hands down. that means Jabbar is better than Russell and Chamberlain. Not quite.
Brown had power AND speed.
Campbell? again, if its only about how long they played.......
Campbell dominated the league with power and speed.

Im not questioning Bettis in the hall of fame. Never did. But like the old saying goes,"there are Hall of Famers and then there are HALL OF FAMERS"

CantStop85
01-28-2006, 11:30 PM
Whoops...sorry, 85. I put you on ignore, too...That means I can't read whatever dumbass bullshit you feel is so important that you have to go over to a division rivals site and post.
Wow, you're cool. I wish I could be as immature as you and try to instigate an argument with someone because I feel like it.

If you're going to put me on ignore, then why go to the trouble of responding to my posts?

You must be a sad, lonely little man. I'm sorry.

CantStop85
01-28-2006, 11:33 PM
not sure the point. Brown was 232- DL 250. So Bettis is 260- if DL are 300 the ratio is the same. LB's 230. yeah, its all about equal.
Brown "lasted" 9 years. He chose to leave, he wasnt broken down or anything.
if this about who was the most durable than Bettis gets it hands down. that means Jabbar is better than Russell and Chamberlain. Not quite.
Brown had power AND speed.
Campbell? again, if its only about how long they played.......
Campbell dominated the league with power and speed.

Im not questioning Bettis in the hall of fame. Never did. But like the old saying goes,"there are Hall of Famers and then there are HALL OF FAMERS"
Good points, just because Bettis stayed in the league longer that some guys doesn't make him a better back. Durability is good, but a lot of retirements are a result of personal choice, not being worn out.

BlitzburghRockCity
01-29-2006, 12:15 AM
Bettis is both a hall of famer and a HALL OF FAMER. Durability counts for alot, as does career yardage. Bettis has everything Jim brown had, and everything the other backs I chose to highlight had too. Dont make a knock on him just becuase he chose to stay in the league longer to try and realize his dream of a SB and help his team.

He's every bit as good as all those choices.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-29-2006, 12:23 AM
Bettis gain all his yards up the middle...when the defense knew he was goining to run..
He picked up the mean, hard, run your ass over yards that most running backs cannot do.
He is amazing and needs to be respected..

Hopefully the seahawks will not respect him sunday and we can all see why he is the #5 all time leading rusher..........

Go Bettis

harp79
01-29-2006, 12:32 AM
And anyone who thinks Bettis weighs 260lbs is on crack. That man is 300lbs. He's the biggest of the big backs and gained his yards up the middle and on yards after contact.

Bettis has a lot of competition as there have been a lot of very good backs, but you have to look at more than just yards per carry or even career numbers. Bettis's role in Pittsburgh has been as important to his team as any back in history--he defined the Steeler's power offense, which they are known for.

BlacknGold Bleeder
01-29-2006, 12:33 AM
i agree. Bettis is probably the classiest and most likeable players ever.

btw, if you want to add players from before the 60's , doesnt that drop him down the list even more?

and lets hear from some old timers who saw Earl Campbell. or Gayle Sayers.
sometimes you have to throw out stats and longevity and go with our eyes.

there is just NO WAY Bettis could compare with those 2.

its like a hockey fan saying Bobby Orr wasnt that great because he only played 9 healthy seasons. And????

i could go into the Terrell Davis thing but i'll just leave that alone for now.........

I am old enough to have seen Earlo Campbell play as I said way back in this thread he does not even come close to Bettis. One of the qualities of a HOF is longevity,the back has to produce over time, if not are you gonna put Carnell Williams or Willie Parker in now? My memory of Earl Campbell may be a little jaded because I neversaw him have a great let alone good game against my team , The Original STEEL CURTAIN :nw:

hardwork
01-29-2006, 12:40 AM
Bettis is both a hall of famer and a HALL OF FAMER. Durability counts for alot, as does career yardage. Bettis has everything Jim brown had, and everything the other backs I chose to highlight had too. Dont make a knock on him just becuase he chose to stay in the league longer to try and realize his dream of a SB and help his team.

He's every bit as good as all those choices.


All BS, rivalries, personal stuff, Patriots/Steelers crap, aside blitz, you can't compare Bettis with Jim Brown. They are two completely different animals. Brown is the greatest football player to ever step out onto a field. I saw him play at Syracuse, I saw him play in the pros, and I saw him play Lacrose. You can't compare anyone with Jim Brown.

hardwork
01-29-2006, 12:46 AM
I am old enough to have seen Earlo Campbell play as I said way back in this thread he does not even come close to Bettis. One of the qualities of a HOF is longevity,the back has to produce over time, if not are you gonna put Carnell Williams or Willie Parker in now? My memory of Earl Campbell may be a little jaded because I neversaw him have a great let alone good game against my team , The Original STEEL CURTAIN :nw:

I saw Campbell play in person several times. He was a strong man act. The guy had something like 34 inch thighs.

augustashark
01-29-2006, 01:17 AM
Good points, just because Bettis stayed in the league longer that some guys doesn't make him a better back. Durability is good, but a lot of retirements are a result of personal choice, not being worn out.


Yea, Bo Jackson would not have been a HOF'ER?

Give me a break! Durability has alot to do with it.

Bo was a sure fire HOF'ER if he had played another 3 or 4 years!

Goes to show you that no matter how good you are for a year or two.....You must do it over a extended period of time! I know there are some HOF'ERS who did not play that long but they are the exception not the rule!

SalukiSteelers
01-29-2006, 01:40 AM
Yeah, Bettis' sub-four-yard average is a little questionable but what he's meant to the team's ability to win consistently over the last seven or so years is what really matters. That guy can say whatever he wants but the fact is that the Bus has over 15K yards on a ton of carries. How many times have the Steelers ridden the Bus at the end of games? I'll take the twenty-sixth best back ever, if that's what that guy he thinks he is, and I'll be damn happy to do it. Oh yeah, he's a great citizen, as well. I tell ya this much, whoever that guy is, he's sure as hell not as good at his profession as HOF Jerome Bettis is at footbal. I guess this is the stuff, in addition to all the sappy garbage, that you get when there's like a million days between championship weekend and the Super Bowl.

hardwork
01-29-2006, 02:00 AM
There have been a lot of shortened careers. One that people almost always forget about is Duane Thomas. I think he was the only back I ever saw that you could compare to Jim Brown style wise. But, drugs, mental illness, both probably, took him out in just a few years.

augustashark
01-29-2006, 02:08 AM
Showing your age hardwork....Pulling out an old West Texas state rb.....Nice....A little off but nice......You could also say that if Billy Sims did not get hurt then he would be the best?

hardwork
01-29-2006, 02:12 AM
Showing your age hardwork....Pulling out an old West Texas state rb.....Nice....A little off but nice......You could also say that if Billy Sims did not get hurt then he would be the best?

Yeah, I'm not getting any younger. Where was I off with Thomas?

BlitzburghRockCity
01-29-2006, 02:13 AM
All BS, rivalries, personal stuff, Patriots/Steelers crap, aside blitz, you can't compare Bettis with Jim Brown. They are two completely different animals. Brown is the greatest football player to ever step out onto a field. I saw him play at Syracuse, I saw him play in the pros, and I saw him play Lacrose. You can't compare anyone with Jim Brown.


So says you.... thats where we're different. Jim brown was great in alot of ways and will always be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. But Jerome will as well, they're not far off..its just that too many times people are too narrowminded and focused on the past greats of the league to ever think that any present day player can compare. ( btw, im not calling your narrowminded personally, just making a point) Sure the league was different then, but it doesnt diminish what Jerome has done in his career.

augustashark
01-29-2006, 02:16 AM
Yeah, I'm not getting any younger. Where was I off with Thomas?

If I know my football like I think I know it.....Thomas never gained over a 1,000yds in a season! To compare him with Brown you better have some good stats also!

augustashark
01-29-2006, 02:31 AM
All BS, rivalries, personal stuff, Patriots/Steelers crap, aside blitz, you can't compare Bettis with Jim Brown. They are two completely different animals. Brown is the greatest football player to ever step out onto a field. I saw him play at Syracuse, I saw him play in the pros, and I saw him play Lacrose. You can't compare anyone with Jim Brown.


Brown the best player ever?

he's not even the best RB ever!

B.Sanders
G.Sayers
W.Payton

If you want to add all players how about:

J.Rice
J.Montana

or we can go to the defence side of the ball:

D.Butkus
R.Woodson
L.Taylor
R.White

You can not say that Brown is the best player ever....There are just too many other players that have played this game at the highest level!

hardwork
01-29-2006, 02:40 AM
If I know my football like I think I know it.....Thomas never gained over a 1,000yds in a season! To compare him with Brown you better have some good stats also!


No, I said style. I didn't say his numbers were what what Browns were. He's the only runner I ever saw that ran in a similar way to Brown. He couldn't punish the way Brown did, but he had that gift, that way of running that only a few have had.

hardwork
01-29-2006, 02:45 AM
Brown the best player ever?

he's not even the best RB ever!

B.Sanders
G.Sayers
W.Payton

If you want to add all players how about:

J.Rice
J.Montana

or we can go to the defence side of the ball:

D.Butkus
R.Woodson
L.Taylor
R.White

You can not say that Brown is the best player ever....There are just too many other players that have played this game at the highest level!



I'll be back to take this on tomorow. It's almost 3AM here on the east coast. Late for even a getting old guy.

Here's another take for you though. But, I'll stick with Brown.


The greatest player ever? It may ring a Bell
- Bruce Jenkins

Saturday, September 10, 2005

Jerry Rice was the greatest performer in NFL history. He was the king of sustained excellence. He was the most statistically dominant player, and he probably had the most uncompromising work ethic. Nobody knows these things better than the 49er fans who followed him for so many years.
But the greatest football player of all time, as many have claimed in the wake of his retirement? Not a chance.

Please don't construe this as a knock on Rice in any way; it's an argument beyond his control. The game is far too violent to consider any wide receiver -- or any defensive back, for that matter. The greatest football player can do anything you ask. He can play virtually any position. He has only a handful of plays without consequence, and he leaves the field looking as if he's taken on an angry mob with his bare hands.

It's almost unfair, in this age of specialization, to make comparisons with the past -- but we're going to do it, anyway, because even if you used a time machine to drop Rice into bygone eras, he couldn't approach the standards of versatility.

Sammy Baugh, the storied Washington Redskins quarterback of the 1930s, left the Southwest Conference as a legendary passer, one of the greatest punters (to this day) in collegiate history and a dynamite defensive back, known to run wild after interceptions. Another great one from that conference, Doak Walker, racked up 1,954 career rushing yards and 1,638 passing yards for SMU, as well as placekicking and averaging 39.4 yards as a punter.

Some experts mention Jim Brown and simply leave the room, figuring their argument is unassailable. Walter Payton had a virtually injury-free career as a mercurial running back who tried to inflict punishment on anyone who ever tried to tackle him. Chuck Bednarik was one of the most famous two-way players, starring at center and linebacker for the Philadelphia Eagles as late as 1960.
Great choices, all -- but not mine. I'll take Bobby Bell. If you think Rice was a better football player than Bell, we have a serious disagreement on the concept.

Bell came out of a North Carolina high school as a dazzling halfback who had become an all-state quarterback. By the time he finished his career at Minnesota in 1962, he was a two-time All-America tackle and the Outland Trophy winner as the nation's most outstanding lineman. When the Kansas City Chiefs drafted him, he started out at defensive end. He finally moved to outside linebacker, which he played with All-Pro distinction for years, while also handling the Chiefs' punt-snapping duties.

Bell was a chiseled 6-foot-4, 228 pounds, a textbook body that tapered down to a 32 waist. He could run like the wind, stop any man in his tracks, carry the ball like a seasoned tailback and literally play any position. His face was that of a modern-day gladiator, and he spoke with a preacher's conviction. Whomever your favorite might be among the truly all-around players, the game's foundation is built around people like Bell. Wide receivers apply various coats of paint.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/10/SPG3PELNR11.DTL&type=printable

clevestinks
01-29-2006, 07:06 AM
Its hard for me to judge Jim Brown, he was before my time! But is he just a man who was before his time also. It seems that he was bigger stronger and faster than everyone else then. Today would he have been as good? I say no! He would have been very good, and probably great, but not known as the best ever! The defenses now are faster than him, stronger than him, and just as athletic!

3 to be 4
01-29-2006, 07:59 AM
There have been a lot of shortened careers. One that people almost always forget about is Duane Thomas. I think he was the only back I ever saw that you could compare to Jim Brown style wise. But, drugs, mental illness, both probably, took him out in just a few years.


EXCELLENT, hw, ive been fortunate to acquire some fantastic footage of Duane THomas and ive often thought while watching him that had he stayed sane he may have had the best combination of skills of any back of our era. what a waste.

3 to be 4
01-29-2006, 08:04 AM
Bettis is both a hall of famer and a HALL OF FAMER. Durability counts for alot, as does career yardage. Bettis has everything Jim brown had, and everything the other backs I chose to highlight had too. Dont make a knock on him just becuase he chose to stay in the league longer to try and realize his dream of a SB and help his team.

He's every bit as good as all those choices.

Im not "knocking" his durability. Im just saying that the durability isnt as important as the skills on the field and im sorry but Bettis did NOT have everything Jim Brown had. Maybe inside the western Pennsylvania people feel differently. Propose this idea that Bettis is as good as Jim Brown anywhere else and you'd hear gales of laughter. It would be like me suggesting that Brady is better than Unitas and Montana. That would be pure Inside Route 128 around Boston lunacy.

LambertIsGod58
01-29-2006, 08:36 AM
Its hard for me to judge Jim Brown, he was before my time! But is he just a man who was before his time also. It seems that he was bigger stronger and faster than everyone else then. Today would he have been as good? I say no! He would have been very good, and probably great, but not known as the best ever! The defenses now are faster than him, stronger than him, and just as athletic!


I don't think you can truly compare players from different eras. It would be like comparing a TV from 1960 to one in 2000. The players train different and we know more today then ever before on different ways to eat, train etc. The players are much stronger and faster now.

clevestinks
01-29-2006, 08:48 AM
I don't think you can truly compare players from different eras. It would be like comparing a TV from 1960 to one in 2000. The players train different and we know more today then ever before on different ways to eat, train etc. The players are much stronger and faster now.
Couldn`t agree more! And my point was, Jim Brown, from the footage I`ve seen over the years, was at times one of only a few, great well conditioned athletes on the field! Today there are 22 well trained, atheltic, strong fast players on the field at all times. With one exception, when tony siaragusa played, jhe was just a blob

melroseplace
01-29-2006, 09:58 AM
That article has too many numbers being thrown around, and while many will say numbers don't lie, they don't always include all of the facts!!!

For instance, how many of those yards were HARD FOUGHT first downs....they don't disclose that kind of shit in the stats.....they don't include how many defenders Jermome carries on his back for those yards.....they don't include how many defenders Jerome has blown through to get a touchdown.......

**** 'em ..... the haters and nay-sayers.... Jerome IS one of the best, EVER!!!

HERE'S TO ONE FOR THE THUMB, and to ONE FOR JEROME!!!!!

I completely agree with you...they don't call him the Bus for nothing

melroseplace
01-29-2006, 10:00 AM
another thing...how many of these "great running backs" Bettis is being compared to played this well at this age? sure, he's not at his best now...he can barely walk the day after a game but he still puts it all out there and carried guys down the field like it's nothing.

hardwork
01-29-2006, 08:46 PM
Its hard for me to judge Jim Brown, he was before my time! But is he just a man who was before his time also. It seems that he was bigger stronger and faster than everyone else then. Today would he have been as good? I say no! He would have been very good, and probably great, but not known as the best ever! The defenses now are faster than him, stronger than him, and just as athletic!


Brown's strength was off the chart as well as his athletic ability. He wasn't just a great football player. Few dispute the fact that he was the greatest Lacrosse player ever. The man had a one handed shot back when the sticks were made of wood and rawhide.

Would Brown excel today? No DB in the league now could take on Brown straight up any more then they could then. No LB in the league today has any more natural strength then Brown had or is any more athletic.

Jim Brown was cut from a different tree, that's all there is to it.

clevestinks
01-30-2006, 04:43 AM
Brown's strength was off the chart as well as his athletic ability. He wasn't just a great football player. Few dispute the fact that he was the greatest Lacrosse player ever. The man had a one handed shot back when the sticks were made of wood and rawhide.

Would Brown excel today? No DB in the league now could take on Brown straight up any more then they could then. No LB in the league today has any more natural strength then Brown had or is any more athletic.

Jim Brown was cut from a different tree, that's all there is to it.
Like I said, He was to old for even me to remember, and I`m old!

TexaSteeler
01-30-2006, 01:57 PM
Without giving it much thought yet, the Bus is probably top 15 all time. Maybe ten.

clevestinks
01-30-2006, 03:22 PM
Without giving it much thought yet, the Bus is probably top 15 all time. Maybe ten.
I would probably agree with that!

SteelerFanInCA
01-30-2006, 03:31 PM
Just another stupid medie w h o r e who's never played any sports in life and feels he has to hide behind a pen. What a dumb ass this guy is.

3 to be 4
01-30-2006, 06:48 PM
hey! leave clevestinks alone!!!! hes a good guy!