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View Full Version : Lawrence Timmons and other things


BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 09:47 AM
I know that some on the board think he is going to be a great linebacker for us. I know...I know....his speed, hitting ability, etc.

So far, I don't see anything in Lawrence Timmons that makes me believe that he will get a 2nd contract with the Steelers.

First of all, he is not an Inside Linebacker. It has been becoming painfully obvious all year that the dropoff from Foote to Timmons has been huge when it comes to stopping the run. For those of you who laugh at this, answer me these questions:

- If Timmons was the Steelers first choice to play all 3 downs, why were the Steelers initially reluctant to let Foote go until he forced the issue? If they were so confident in Timmons's ability, why did they try to talk Foote into staying?

- If Timmons was a better Inside Linebacker, why couldn't he beat out Foote last year when he was completely heatlhy? Woodley sent Haggans packing and there was no question who was should be starting. It isn't the case in Timmons vs Foote.

Secondly, Timmons only has straight away speed. Watch his pass rushes and how he just runs straight ahead and is easily dodged by the QB. I don't know how many times I have seen this happen with Timmons the past 2 years, but the latest was last week against Gradkowski. Timmons does not have the lateral quickness necessary to play the Inside Linebacker position.

I'm not sure what direction the Steelers are going to go this offseason, but there isn't a single FA on their roster I would consider keeping.

Other than Tomlin, LeBeau, Butler, and Mitchell...the remainder of the coaching staff needs to be fired.....Zerlein, Ligashesky, Arians, Horton, Anderson, and the rest I don't know the names of.

The Steelers throw Intermediate or Deep passes more than any team in the league....even though it doesn't work. If I were an opposing Defensive Coordinator, I wouldn't even cover the RB's coming out of the backfield or anything wihin the first 5 to 10 yards off the LOS....the Steelers don't even look there.

Has anyone seen Mike Wallace since the Denver game?

For the remainder of the year, I want to see the following change in starters:

- Urbick or Foster for Essex
- Lewis or Burnett for Gay
- Mundy for Carter
- And somehow...someway...I want to see Limas Sweed get some time as an investment in next season.

I don't know what it is about this team, but when things go bad...they go really bad. Hate them all you want, but you did not see the early 90's Patriots get beat by inferior opponents. You don't see Peyton Manning lose to teams like the Raiders, Chiefs, and Browns. I believe that Ben is a great QB, but some of his games really leave you scratching your head and wondering...what on earth is the plan on offense.

eafratitpm3
12-11-2009, 10:03 AM
I agree with you on Timmons, more often than not he gets caught up in the line of scrimmage wash and is always out of position. Let me add, and I know everyone will bash, the loss of Aaron Smith early in the season has unmasked a slower Farrior, in my opinion needs to go. I look at a guy like Keith Brooking and see him flying around making plays and James isn't half the player he is anymore. I've been saying this all year, teams are getting to Ben almost every game, why not chip a blocker and throw a screen to the back. If I see one more of the bubble screens this year I'm going to SCREAM.

Edman
12-11-2009, 10:09 AM
Bruce Arians is easily the worst thing to happen to Ben's game. It clashes with the patient style of QB coach Ken Anderson. Ken wasn't the most dynamic quarterback around, but he was patient, and he took what was given him.

Arians' asinine offensive scheme teaches Ben to fling it downfield from that shitacular empty set every play. No dumpoffs, no checkdowns, no slants, no crossing routes, nothing to help him beat the blitz. No playaction whatsoever even though Ben is one of the best Playaction QB's in the league. No-Huddle? What's that?

Instead, we get Ben sitting back there alone waiting for someone to get open, and he gets sacked. Teams have been gearing up to stop the deep/intermediate ball since the Minnesota game, Good ol' Brucey makes no adjustments whatsoever.

Arians is a pile of waste.

SteelStang
12-11-2009, 10:14 AM
BF,

I think you raise some good points, but I also think you're going to take some shots too. Maybe I'm wrong, but we all see things differently.

LT has always reminded me more of an OLB than a guy on the inside. His speed on the edge would be extremely difficult to handle and he would be pretty good in coverage in the flat or curl zone.

Farrior really showed his age last night. Lot of missed tackles, trouble getting off blocks and was really a non-factor last night. Love the guy, but I'm wondering how much he has left in the tank.

Not real sure what you have seen to warrant getting Sweed on the field. I think he's proven he is a bust and I'll be more than happy to eat crow should he prove otherwise.

Mundy is another example of complete lack of depth at DB. Keep in mind this was a guy who transferred from Michigan to WVU because it looked like he'd never see the field at UM. Was actually behind a walk-on at one point. He broke the cardinal rule last week on the game-winner by Oakland when he let Murphy get behind him in the end zone of all places. I don't see him as an answer.

Foster and Urbik are unkowns. Could they ultimately be better than TE? Maybe, but again, I haven't seen anything to warrant that.

steelerjim58
12-11-2009, 10:15 AM
As far as Timmons, I disagree with you. I think the Kid has a great deal of upside. As far as being dodged by qbs that happens to everyone. I don't think that any 250lb linebacker coming full speed up the middle can change dierction on a dime.

Sweed for me is the big mystery. The dude must not be doing anything in practice to give the coaches any confidence in him. And I know he has had a couple of glaring drops but damn he hasn't gotten enough time on the field to show what he can do one way or another. But if he isn't going to be given that chance it's time to let him go.

SteeleReign
12-11-2009, 10:16 AM
I dunno...I'm not done with Timmons yet. I think another camp & staying healthy for a year will tell us the truth. If after another season he isn't getting it done, then we look for another answer.

FacemeIke
12-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Give Timmons another year when hes not having issues with BOTH ankles and then make a decision on him. At this point though I'm more then happy with him at LB. I don't get the "give sweed some field time" arguement I keep hearing. For one he's already proven he can't get the job done at this level. #2 even if he does decent where does that leave him? He'll still be the #4 wideout with no shot of cracking the top 3 spots so what does it accomplish? I do want to see Mundy and Burnett step in as starters. We need to see what we have in these two guys. Espcially Mundy since I think Clark will be gone in a year or 2, so we need to find out if he's clark's replacement or if we need to look elsewhere.

Steeldude
12-11-2009, 10:31 AM
IMO, i am glad foote is gone. i was tired of watching him stand their letting the ball carrier come to him. his pass defense was subpar.

Woodley sent Haggans packing

wasn't that due to haggans' age and contact expiring?

Timmons does not have the lateral quickness necessary to play the Inside Linebacker position

IMO, he is probably the fastest LB on the steelers, forward, backwards and sideways. far faster than foote.

while i disagree with you a little, it was a good post. you make some good points :smile:

i agree with you on the coaches. i said last year that arians, ligashesky and zierlein need to go.

X-Terminator
12-11-2009, 10:34 AM
I definitely would NOT fire Ken Anderson. He has been a tremendous help to Ben's overall game. Hell, I think he should be next in line for the OC job.

MACH1
12-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Bruce Arians is easily the worst thing to happen to Ben's game. It clashes with the patient style of QB coach Ken Anderson. Ken wasn't the most dynamic quarterback around, but he was patient, and he took what was given him.

Arians' asinine offensive scheme teaches Ben to fling it downfield from that shitacular empty set every play. No dumpoffs, no checkdowns, no slants, no crossing routes, nothing to help him beat the blitz. No playaction whatsoever even though Ben is one of the best Playaction QB's in the league. No-Huddle? What's that?

Instead, we get Ben sitting back there alone waiting for someone to get open, and he gets sacked. Teams have been gearing up to stop the deep/intermediate ball since the Minnesota game, Good ol' Brucey makes no adjustments whatsoever.

Arians is a pile of waste.

Nahhh, It's all about execution not the play calling. :rolleyes:

BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 10:40 AM
IMO, i am glad foote is gone. i was tired of watching him stand their letting the ball carrier come to him. his pass defense was subpar.



wasn't that due to haggans' age and contact expiring?



IMO, he is probably the fastest LB on the steelers, forward, backwards and sideways. far faster than foote.

while i disagree with you a little, it was a good post. you make some good points :smile:

i agree with you on the coaches. i said last year that arians, ligashesky and zierlein need to go.

Haggans is starting and playing well in Arizona. I think Woodley was just that much better. But you are right, his contract did expire. IMO, who would have been starting would have been the same though.

I do agree with you that Timmons is faster than Foote, but Foote had a way of getting to the ballcarrier that I don't see in Timmons.

I don't think that Timmons sucks, but I do not think he is a ILB.

BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 10:41 AM
I definitely would NOT fire Ken Anderson. He has been a tremendous help to Ben's overall game. Hell, I think he should be next in line for the OC job.

Perhaps you are right about Anderson. My post is more directed toward the entire offensive system we have in place. Arians is the one who definitely needs to be jettisoned.

revefsreleets
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Timmons is a bust again?

OK...just keeping score...

Also, what does Arians have to do with Timmons?

BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 11:20 AM
Timmons is a bust again?

OK...just keeping score...

Also, what does Arians have to do with Timmons?

I didn't say Timmons was a bust. I don't think his strengths are at ILB.

It was a post about Timmons....and other things...as the title states....which could include Arians.

steelreserve
12-11-2009, 12:03 PM
So far, I don't see anything in Lawrence Timmons that makes me believe that he will get a 2nd contract with the Steelers.

I do -- he's good as an outside linebacker, and James Harrison is getting old. By the time Timmons' rookie deal is up, that's just about the time we'll need to find a successor to Harrison. That's more of the role I see him filling, because I agree -- he's looked a lot better doing things like blitzing, moving in space, covering TEs and so forth.

Yeah, this also reminds me how in the draft, there was some part of me that wished we'd grabbed Lauranitis or (especially) Maluaga when they fell that low. Especially after Foote bitched his way out of town. By the way -- how'd that work out for you, Larry? Good?

Ahh well. For the last three games, I mainly hope we rest Troy until Madden 11 comes out with some other poor sap on the cover, and take a look at some young guys like ...

- Mundy, because we need someone to replace Carter as the backup safety unless we have shit for brains

- Lewis and Burnett, because at this point it's unclear whether Gay will "get it" or not

- Wallace or Burnett as a punt returner

- Sweed to see if he's got any chance at progressing

- Hood, because really, is it going to do any good to give the playing time to Old Man Kirschke instead?

TX Steelerfan
12-11-2009, 12:14 PM
Either way, we need ILB early in the draft.

When does Patrick Willis become a FA? (*wishful thinking*)

wootawnee
12-11-2009, 12:25 PM
Hear Ye Hear Ye........Sir Larry Foote ....Come back Hither..........The Castle is crumbling around the hole you left when you left...........You were right ......You were the better one.........You should have been playing all 4 downs not just 2...............For thou bretheran Pottsie sure misses thee..............On your way back home may you swing by Arizona and grab the back court guard Mr McFadden.........Hence you will be repaid with lucrative amounts of gold............

Ps..........If it is a possability, will you please wear very short sleeve atire so that all who see you coming may be at awe of you awsome sleeves of body art armour.........

Yours Sincerely,
King T. Terrible Towel III......

KeiselPower99
12-11-2009, 12:26 PM
I think Timmons would be a better OLB and have thought that since we drafted him. I think there will be an overhaul on the coaching staff this year and only a few guys should stay. Ken Anderson Dick Lebeau James Daniels John Mitchell and Keith Butler. I think Fox is the ILB we need in ther eon running down and Timmons can replace Farrior on passing downs. Also here is something I was thinking earlier today. Since Tomlin has become coach we seem to play at the level of the team we are going up against. I really think we will win out and finish at 9-7. I would hope there is too much pride on this team to just die right now.

msafford
12-11-2009, 12:29 PM
I definitely would NOT fire Ken Anderson. He has been a tremendous help to Ben's overall game. Hell, I think he should be next in line for the OC job.

That could be quite interesting. Wasn't Bill Walsh Anderson's O Coordinator for a while in Cinci when he was playing? I wouldn't mind seeing that.

OneForTheToe
12-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Give Timmons another year when hes not having issues with BOTH ankles and then make a decision on him. At this point though I'm more then happy with him at LB. I don't get the "give sweed some field time" arguement I keep hearing. For one he's already proven he can't get the job done at this level. #2 even if he does decent where does that leave him? He'll still be the #4 wideout with no shot of cracking the top 3 spots so what does it accomplish? I do want to see Mundy and Burnett step in as starters. We need to see what we have in these two guys. Espcially Mundy since I think Clark will be gone in a year or 2, so we need to find out if he's clark's replacement or if we need to look elsewhere.

I agree about Timmons. He hopefully will be healthy next season. However, i would also give Sweed another year. it's not like his contract is killing us.. Agree about the young dbs.

steel9guy
12-11-2009, 01:10 PM
Give Timmons another year or so.

Steelerroy
12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
I was pissed when we drafted Timmons and I'm just not a fan.I have always seen him as a 4-3 linebacker.He's to small to be playing in the middle.I think he could really play much better on the outside but we didn't need to use a first round pick to get an outside guy.I thought O-line would have been a better pick at the time.That said I do like his speed but I see him out of position and getting pushed around alot.Farrior has dropped weight the last few years to try and keep up some speed and the 2 together are just to light in the ass for middle linebacker in the 3-4.Farrior is my favorite player but it's obvious he's slowed down.Tomlin has been in love with Timmons since his pro day so I think he's on the team for the long haul.If that's the case(and it pains me to say it) I wish they would start Fox alongside him and make Farrior the back up.

pancake
12-11-2009, 01:36 PM
I was pissed when we drafted Timmons and I'm just not a fan.I have always seen him as a 4-3 linebacker.He's to small to be playing in the middle.I think he could really play much better on the outside but we didn't need to use a first round pick to get an outside guy.I thought O-line would have been a better pick at the time.That said I do like his speed but I see him out of position and getting pushed around alot.Farrior has dropped weight the last few years to try and keep up some speed and the 2 together are just to light in the ass for middle linebacker in the 3-4.Farrior is my favorite player but it's obvious he's slowed down.Tomlin has been in love with Timmons since his pro day so I think he's on the team for the long haul.If that's the case(and it pains me to say it) I wish they would start Fox alongside him and make Farrior the back up.

I really like Farrior, but he has lost a step or two and just can't get it done like he use to. His pass coverage is even worse.

Sharkissle29
12-11-2009, 01:53 PM
I really like Farrior, but he has lost a step or two and just can't get it done like he use to. His pass coverage is even worse.

Last night was definitely the first time i truly noticed that he has definitely lost a step.

However, i think having Fox and Timmons in the middle wouldnt be a bad thing. Fox has proven when given the chance that he can play some football

Spidey
12-11-2009, 02:08 PM
I'm not sold on Timmo inside, next season he needs to win me over or move outside.

Fox should replace Farrior and Woodley needs to watch his back as I've been less than impressed with him this season, I was expecting big things from the Wood, but apart from a slight surge as of late, he's been the biggest disapointment for me this year, . . . hey I knew Farrior would be average!

We could do worse than swapping Wood and Timmo over, anything is worth a try in camp.

MillerMania83
12-11-2009, 04:42 PM
I really like Farrior, but he has lost a step or two and just can't get it done like he use to. His pass coverage is even worse.

Have to agree, as I'm a HUGE Farrior fan, but man, you can just see it the past couple of games, the guy has just lost a step or two, just seems he's getting there a bit late, and if so, can't catch up....Father time is a ba$tard.

brick
12-11-2009, 05:08 PM
+1 about timmons. not that i don't think he'll be good, but i've been saying all season to deaf ears that losing foote was HUGE (and so was losing mcfadden, also huge).

Preacher
12-11-2009, 05:15 PM
Personally, I think Timmons was an upgrade over Foote in the long hall. He made some nice tackles last night, and brings a lot of speed in every direction to the ILB position.

I really don't think we have to draft at LB, least not in the top 2 or 3 rounds. Fox looks about ready to step at ILB as well. It does scare me though, having two YOUNG players at that position.

I REALLY like the idea of Ken Anderson as OC. It will keep consistency for Ben AND hopefully bring more balance.

brick
12-11-2009, 05:24 PM
i think the lbs can be whipped back into shape. i'm personally more worried about the secondary, outside of troy and clark.

wootawnee
12-11-2009, 05:56 PM
+1 about timmons. not that i don't think he'll be good, but i've been saying all season to deaf ears that losing foote was HUGE (and so was losing mcfadden, also huge).

I been with you all along........You can take a guy like Foote and get more out of him cause he got heart, spirit and instinct.........You stick a guy in there with better physical attributes but less of what Foote had and this is what happens.......Big example......Tedi Brewski............If you look at his body you would bench him.......But he played big and smart with great chemstry.....

Personally I would try to find another mean brawler dude like Old Mr. Lambert.......Thos Butkus types are really what takes over games........Someone is out there waiting to get drafted.......Some no name that will come on the scene and put fear in running backs......Get out there and get them Colbert.....

08 defense was great.......It wasn't broke and they tried to fix it........Oh well....Live and learn Mike.....

groundhogday
12-11-2009, 06:17 PM
I think there is something to be said for the loss of the A Smith for the play of Timmons even compared to Foote. Smith chews up blockers letting the LBs run free. Timmons has added value because he can play both inside and outside OLB securing depth too. I'm a fan of Timmons. He also battled injuries.

As for our OC, there is a reason smash mouth football is a Steeler legacy, because it works in December and the play offs. The weather was so crappy yesterday yet we choose to throw it nearly 40 (counting sacks and Ben's scramble) and run it 20. Nice gameplan when you are only down a score. It's so frustrating watching the O. Our routes had no imagination. It almost seemed like on several routes the plan is to run into the DB and then try to break-away as the play breaks down. At least the former OCs ran designed throws to allow receivers to get open. It's tough to watch.

Did anyone see the play action stat the Monday night against B-More? It said Ben was unstoppable! something like 34 for 38 with a ridiculous passer rating. How come through 11 games at the point we average just over 3 PAP attempts per game. Awful.

BlastFurnace
12-11-2009, 08:58 PM
I been with you all along........You can take a guy like Foote and get more out of him cause he got heart, spirit and instinct.........You stick a guy in there with better physical attributes but less of what Foote had and this is what happens.......Big example......Tedi Brewski............If you look at his body you would bench him.......But he played big and smart with great chemstry.....

Personally I would try to find another mean brawler dude like Old Mr. Lambert.......Thos Butkus types are really what takes over games........Someone is out there waiting to get drafted.......Some no name that will come on the scene and put fear in running backs......Get out there and get them Colbert.....

08 defense was great.......It wasn't broke and they tried to fix it........Oh well....Live and learn Mike.....

That ILB we should have drafted was Malaluga. He was there for the taking.