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mesaSteeler
12-12-2009, 12:05 AM
Why Bruce Arians should go: Views of the fan
December 12, 12:53 AMPittsburgh Sports Examiner
Matt Pawlikowski
http://www.examiner.com/x-2703-Pittsburgh-Sports-Examiner~y2009m12d12-Why-Bruce-Arians-should-go--Views-of-the-fan

This weekend, the Examiner decided to do something different. We let the readers take a shot at the current state of the Steelers and what should be done.

Mike Tomlin promised to rage hell in December; something yet to happen then made a promise for change, another thing yet to be seen.

In talking with a few respected Cleveland writers on Thursday night, they pointed one thing out that is wrong with the Steelers this year; Bruce Arians. Those scribes talked about how other teams knew what was coming all the time and how he destroyed Tim Couch while with the Browns. They also said he always seemed to be doing something to pad his resume for another shot with another team.

While Ben Roethliberger has endorsed Arians in the past, let’s be realistic. The past six weeks, his play calling has been lousy at best. His pass happy offense isn’t cutting it, and although one can argue that Rashard Mendenhall will reach 1,000 yards this season, in the past when the Steelers had a true fullback like Dan Kreider those numbers would be much higher.

So without further commentary on why we think Arians time is up, we’ve decided to let Lee, who brings up some excellent points, take his best shot.

“A couple of years ago when Willie Parker was a pro-bowl RB, he stated that he preferred to run behind a fullback and felt that he performed better when doing so. Did Arians attempt to incorporate a FB into his offense more? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offense.

Ben Roethlisberger has been begging for at least 2 years to run the no huddle more and the stats prove that the Steelers have been very, very successful when doing so. Does Bruce Arians let Ben do so? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offense.

For a few years now the offensive line, RBs, and even WRs (Ward & Holmes) stated at one time or another that the Steelers need to establish the run and stay committed to it in order to keep the defenses they face off balance and to be more productive, so does Bruce Arians listen to his players suggestions? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offense

Since the Vikings game, most teams have been using a soft cover 2 shell to prevent the deep passes, yet Arians keeps calling 7 step drop pass plays with deep routes.

That would also seem to open up the running game since the safety is playing away from the line of scrimmage in the cover 2 scheme. Yet Arians still passes over 60% of the time. So obviously it's not what the defense it attempting to take away, it's about Bruce Arians, his offense, and his love for the passing game and especially the deep passes.

Arians also continued to seem determined to keep using his beloved "empty backfield" formation until it worked. Problem is, it's yet to work.

Teams continue to counter this formation with heavy blitzing. That results in Ben Roethlisberger taking a pounding, getting sacked, throwing incomplete passes, turning the ball over, or if the Steelers are lucky, a four yard gain.

Yet more proof that Arians is a very poor offensive coordinator. He refuses to vary his offense or offensive play calling to maximize the strengths and talents of his players. He makes the players fit his offense.

He made Dixon a pocket quarterback when Dixon (at this point in his career) is better when using his athletic ability. I only remember seeing a rollout or moving pocket 3 times vs the Ravens, one resulted in a TD pass and another resulted in a TD run.

To be heard in the voice of the fan, which will run each Saturday, email sunnewsmp@yahoo.com.

Glace
12-12-2009, 12:17 AM
I knew the browns hated him too, but these are all extremely valid and accurate points.

Good read.

19ward86
12-12-2009, 12:37 AM
offense reminds me of the season of 2002 and the fallout in 2003...almost same season outcomes compared to 2008 and 2009 season.

Gnutella
12-12-2009, 12:39 AM
Now it's dawned on me: Bruce Arians is Kevin Gilbride all over again.

wootawnee
12-12-2009, 12:55 AM
I already hear the door hitt him in the rear......:rofl:

steelers2685
12-12-2009, 02:34 AM
Nice article, very true statements all around. I never understood why they did not implement a fullback after releasing Kreider. They gave the sorry excuse of a FB Carey Davis a shot but that was a FAIL.

Willie suffered from Bruce Arians (trying to run him up the middle without a fullback primarily). Now Bruce is ruining the receievers and Ben as well (durability). Only player I see benefitting from him is Heath Miller who's actually caught a lot more passes it seems than in years past.

Edman
12-12-2009, 02:59 AM
Bruce Arians is easily the worst Steelers OC since Ray Sherman. After years of competance in Mularkey and Whisenhunt, we blew it with this guy. I know Mularkey and Whiz had their bad days, but Airhead is an out and out embarrassment.

The Cleveland game pretty much cost him his job.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 04:10 AM
Bruce Arians is easily the worst Steelers OC since Ray Sherman. After years of competance in Mularkey and Whisenhunt, we blew it with this guy. I know Mularkey and Whiz had their bad days, but Airhead is an out and out embarrassment.

The Cleveland game pretty much cost him his job.

Once again, WAY over the top IMO.

There are some things that were very smart. The cutting down and reforming the playbook was very smart (it was just added to time and time again until it got to be unruly).

SOME of the plays ran were pretty much brilliant in make up. As I started to watch and re-watch them this year, I was actually pretty astounded.

The PROBLEM is, it seems that he doesn't know how to put them all together and make it into a proper gameplan.

I think he would be a much better Offensive assistant coordinator than a coordinator.

Rick5895
12-12-2009, 05:45 AM
Once again, WAY over the top IMO.

There are some things that were very smart. The cutting down and reforming the playbook was very smart (it was just added to time and time again until it got to be unruly).

SOME of the plays ran were pretty much brilliant in make up. As I started to watch and re-watch them this year, I was actually pretty astounded.

The PROBLEM is, it seems that he doesn't know how to put them all together and make it into a proper gameplan.

I think he would be a much better Offensive assistant coordinator than a coordinator.

I will agree that some of his plays do appear brilliant, by design. The problem is he doesn't adjust to the players he has.
He doesn't adjust to what the other team is doing defensively.
He doesn't have continuity or flow.
Preacher, anyone can draw up plays that look good, but it takes someone who knows what they are doing to call them in a game.
I have been a high school DC, when I saw that empty set on O my players were instructed to call off what ever I sent in and replace it with a man coverage blitz every one else scheme. I would do this until the O adjusted. Arians never adjusts.
That is is huge problem.

Steeldude
12-12-2009, 06:07 AM
in a way this reminds me of the kordell experiment. so many fans were making excuses for kordell, but they eventually took off the steelers' goggles to see reality for the first time.

yet Arians keeps calling 7 step drop pass plays with deep routes

but i thought it was the WR's fault for not catching it...lmao.

steelerdave1969
12-12-2009, 06:23 AM
I already hear the door hitt him in the rear......:rofl:
I really hope your right Woot. I love the passing game and we have some very nice talent. But the Run has got to be involved to make it work unless your Peyton Manning. The Steelers are very talented at RB and WR and for this offense to not accomplish more is crazy. No telling what Mendenhall would have this year in yards and TD's with a Bill Cowher type offensive coordinator. Its time for change and that goes for the Special Teams Coach as well . .. He is Pathetic

Vincent
12-12-2009, 06:33 AM
Thank you for posting this and reminding us of how BA destroyed Tim Couch. We're in the process of watching him destroy our $100M franchise QB, our feature back of the last few years and now our likely next feature back.

Its easy to say that the woes of this team and the recent meltdown would be fixed by canning BA alone. I disagree. BA has been allowed to wreak this havoc by a young man that has no business being in the position he is in. He has watched this idiocy for three years and done nothing to correct it.

"Yes, but 'he' won the Super Bowl". The Steelers won the Super Bowl in spite of him. In the meantime our $100M franchise QB has been beaten half to death by a scheme that destroyed another promising young QB. And it was all distilled and packaged for a national audience on Thursday night. 8 sacks by the mighty Cleveland Browns and their vaunted pass rush.

This same coach that said "I'm going to run Willie Parker till his wheels fall off", accelerated this debacle by announcing that we'd unleashing hell in December while confiding that he just wanted to win a game.

As was noted in another thread, the honorable move would be to resign.

The Steelers are very talented at RB and WR and for this offense to not accomplish more is crazy. No telling what Mendenhall would have this year in yards and TD's with a Bill Cowher type offensive coordinator.

You mean, like run Mendy behind a fullback? There's an idea.

Mendy in the Cowher offense would have at least 1,500 yards on the ground, and 3 or 400 yards in the air. And we'd be 13-0. I'll go further. Mendy in Cowher's offense wouldn't have been stood up to be blasted by mcstabbin and lost for the season.

The carnage of this idiocy is monumental.

revefsreleets
12-12-2009, 06:36 AM
I know another NFL QB BA "ruined"...Peyton Manning. How'd that turn out for him?

Chris Palmer and, to a much higher degree, Butch Davis ruined Couch.

If the fans ran the teams, we'd have 32 Washington Redskins. Thank CHRIST this is about as much input as they ever get...

fansince'76
12-12-2009, 07:11 AM
In the meantime our $100M franchise QB has been beaten half to death by a scheme that destroyed another promising young QB.

Yeah, never mind the 46 sacks he took in '06 while still playing for the mighty and infallible Cowher/Whiz/Grimm triumvirate. :coffee:

Steeldude
12-12-2009, 07:30 AM
If the fans ran the teams, we'd have 32 Washington Redskins.

but how could they do wrong using your logic? just pick any play. if it doesn't work it's the players fault everytime. right?

xfl2001fan
12-12-2009, 07:33 AM
Why Bruce Arians should go: Views of the fan
December 12, 12:53 AMPittsburgh Sports Examiner
Matt Pawlikowski
http://www.examiner.com/x-2703-Pittsburgh-Sports-Examiner~y2009m12d12-Why-Bruce-Arians-should-go--Views-of-the-fan

This weekend, the Examiner decided to do something different. We let the readers take a shot at the current state of the Steelers and what should be done.
This should be fun
Mike Tomlin promised to rage hell in December; something yet to happen then made a promise for change, another thing yet to be seen.
What was Tomlin supposed to say? My players are quitters? We're going to lose out? He has to promise change...he has to promise to unleash hell. Sheesh.
In talking with a few respected Cleveland writers on Thursday night, they pointed one thing out that is wrong with the Steelers this year; Bruce Arians. Those scribes talked about how other teams knew what was coming all the time and how he destroyed Tim Couch while with the Browns. They also said he always seemed to be doing something to pad his resume for another shot with another team.So he destroyed Tim Couch? It wasn't one of the most porous offensive lines, only one solid WR, no running back worth mentioning? It was all Bruce Arians? I'm no "respected Cleveland writer" (which might well be respected Cleveland blogger for all we can tell)...but I do recall a severe lack of talent surrounding Tim Couch.

While Ben Roethliberger has endorsed Arians in the past, let’s be realistic. The past six weeks, his play calling has been lousy at best. His pass happy offense isn’t cutting it, and although one can argue that Rashard Mendenhall will reach 1,000 yards this season, in the past when the Steelers had a true fullback like Dan Kreider those numbers would be much higher.
Yes, a FB would help the running game. But if your QB is happy with the OC, he'll typically produce better than if he doesn't like his OC.
So without further commentary on why we think Arians time is up, we’ve decided to let Lee, who brings up some excellent points, take his best shot.

“A couple of years ago when Willie Parker was a pro-bowl RB, he stated that he preferred to run behind a fullback and felt that he performed better when doing so. Did Arians attempt to incorporate a FB into his offense more? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offense.Willie Parker would (of course) love a FB. It does tend to make it easier to run....however, that last line is speculation. It holds no weight whatsoever. Is Bruce Arians the GM? Is it his job to bring in a FB? Hmmm:tap:

Ben Roethlisberger has been begging for at least 2 years to run the no huddle more and the stats prove that the Steelers have been very, very successful when doing so. Does Bruce Arians let Ben do so? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offense.The No Huddle does have it's drawbacks. You (typically) have a limited number of plays that you can run out of the no huddle. Even with the Colts, who run it quite a bit...they have one of the smarterst QBs in the league...and they still only run a relatively small number of plays out of it. They just execute those plays exceptionally well. :tap:

For a few years now the offensive line, RBs, and even WRs (Ward & Holmes) stated at one time or another that the Steelers need to establish the run and stay committed to it in order to keep the defenses they face off balance and to be more productive, so does Bruce Arians listen to his players suggestions? No, because this is Bruce Arians' offenseLast year, you were passing to set up the run...and then running it down their throats when you had the lead to preserve the lead. A lot of teams do this. It just seems like most fans only point to the box score at the end...and see what they want to see out of those numbers. :tap:

Since the Vikings game, most teams have been using a soft cover 2 shell to prevent the deep passes, yet Arians keeps calling 7 step drop pass plays with deep routes.

That would also seem to open up the running game since the safety is playing away from the line of scrimmage in the cover 2 scheme. Yet Arians still passes over 60% of the time. So obviously it's not what the defense it attempting to take away, it's about Bruce Arians, his offense, and his love for the passing game and especially the deep passes.
The Deep passes are used to set up the run. Yes, he could call more run plays...or Big Ben could audible to a run play. If it's a 5-wide setup, he could audible to a pass play that looks like a run formation...just to throw them off. Either you've got a Top-3 QB or you don't...it's his job to recognize the defense and react. It's the center's job to react to the defense and call out the appropriate line plays. If they don't adjust in game...is it really Bruce Arians fault? :tap:
Arians also continued to seem determined to keep using his beloved "empty backfield" formation until it worked. Problem is, it's yet to work.

Teams continue to counter this formation with heavy blitzing. That results in Ben Roethlisberger taking a pounding, getting sacked, throwing incomplete passes, turning the ball over, or if the Steelers are lucky, a four yard gain.
See above note.
Yet more proof that Arians is a very poor offensive coordinator. He refuses to vary his offense or offensive play calling to maximize the strengths and talents of his players. He makes the players fit his offense.
Yes, he should tweak his offense to fit the players...but these are also professional players who should be more versatile players. I know that FWP will never be a power back...but as a faster/quicker back, he should be fine in a spread offense...one cut and go. However, that doesn't seem to work for him...wonder why.
He made Dixon a pocket quarterback when Dixon (at this point in his career) is better when using his athletic ability. I only remember seeing a rollout or moving pocket 3 times vs the Ravens, one resulted in a TD pass and another resulted in a TD run.

Maybe because non-pocket passers tend to flame out in the NFL rather fast. It's best to teach the QB how to play a complete game...not just roll out to one side of the field and only play half the field. :tap:

Rollouts can be successful...but if that becomes the staple of your offense, the defense will react...and it will get very ugly very fast.

You mean, like run Mendy behind a fullback? There's an idea.

Mendy in the Cowher offense would have at least 1,500 yards on the ground, and 3 or 400 yards in the air. And we'd be 13-0. I'll go further. Mendy in Cowher's offense wouldn't have been stood up to be blasted by mcstabbin and lost for the season.

The carnage of this idiocy is monumental.
How many times did Cowher get you to 13-0? How many SB's did he get you before Big Ben came along? :tap:

stillers4me
12-12-2009, 07:41 AM
I know another NFL QB BA "ruined"...Peyton Manning. How'd that turn out for him?



Arians was Peyton's QB coach. He wasn't calling the plays. (and maybe there was a reason for that). Cowher hired him as a WR coach. He wasn't calling the plays. (and maybe there was a reason for that). Cincinnati does not have fond memories of Dick Lebeau as HC but we all know where his particular strengths lie.

Arians is not being judged today on what he did in these other positions. He is our OC.......and he is ruining our QB's career and taking the Dan Rooney's legacy to the cold, dark depths of the Titanic. Nobody thought that ship could sink, either.

I just pray that Tomlin is the man we think he is and has the hoosbah to send him and anybody else that is not living up to "the standard of expectation" straight out the back door, and that includes players and trainers as well as coaches.

AllD
12-12-2009, 07:56 AM
Can't we just get a computer to call the plays?

Steeldude
12-12-2009, 09:53 AM
31, 23 , 26 and 28 <--those numbers represent where the browns ranked on total offense in the NFL from 2001-2004.

31, 23, 20, and 23 <--those numbers represent where the browns rushing attack ranked in the NFL from 2001-2004.

Zierlein was the offensive line coach at the University of Cincinnati (1997-2000) when Tomlin was the Bearcats' secondary coach and also was the Browns' offensive line coach in 2001-04 when Arians was the offensive coordinator.

they are all buddies. time to hire coaches based on ability and experience rather than how close you are to each other.

xfl2001fan
12-12-2009, 09:59 AM
31, 23 , 26 and 28 <--those numbers represent where the browns ranked on total offense in the NFL from 2001-2004.

31, 23, 20, and 23 <--those numbers represent where the browns rushing attack ranked in the NFL from 2001-2004.

Zierlein was the offensive line coach at the University of Cincinnati (1997-2000) when Tomlin was the Bearcats' secondary coach and also was the Browns' offensive line coach in 2001-04 when Arians was the offensive coordinator.

they are all buddies. time to hire coaches based on ability and experience rather than how close you are to each other.

Who were the offensive lineman for the Browns from 2001-2004? Who was their RB?

Any household names? Not laughingstock...but guys that you'd have wanted on the Steelers? I know a lot of Steelersfans wouldn't mind having a Joe Thomas on their team right now...but I doubt that any of our lineman/runningbacks from back then are guys you would have wanted on your team.

Players still need to execute.

EastLibertyHomer
12-12-2009, 10:23 AM
If the Steelers dump Bruce "Airhead". Who should they bring in to fix this mess?

Dude went empty back field on a 3rd and 1. THIRD AND ONE!! He has to go.

MACH1
12-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Can't we just get a computer to call the plays?

Yeah, It's called Madden.

Might be worth a try. Couldn't be much worse than BA play calling. :noidea:

markymarc
12-12-2009, 12:43 PM
IMO that article brought out a lot of good points on Bruce Arians as an OC. I truly hope 2009 is his last season with the Steelers.

WH
12-12-2009, 01:55 PM
If the Steelers dump Bruce "Airhead". Who should they bring in to fix this mess?


Chan Gailey.

WH
12-12-2009, 02:00 PM
Yes, a FB would help the running game. But if your QB is happy with the OC, he'll typically produce better than if he doesn't like his OC.
Willie Parker would (of course) love a FB. It does tend to make it easier to run....however, that last line is speculation. It holds no weight whatsoever. Is Bruce Arians the GM? Is it his job to bring in a FB? Hmmm:tap:



Even if Colbert were to draft a FB:

Arians claims there is no fullback in his offense and never will be. The coordinator could be a little sensitive to the criticism often aimed his way for not using a fullback the way they did under previous coordinators, especially when they had Dan Kreider.

"There's not a fullback on the roster," Arians said. "There's a running back who plays fullback, a tight end who plays fullback. I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09251/996270-66.stm

Having a fullback, that has proven in more than just one game, is something Bruce doesn't like. He prefers Matt Spaeth, 6'7 230 lbs of wastes space.

stillers4me
12-12-2009, 02:07 PM
"There's not a fullback on the roster," Arians said. "There's a running back who plays fullback, a tight end who plays fullback. I don't have a fullback. There's no fullback in my offense, there's never going to be one."

I have a solution to this dilemma.

Jan 4, 2010 is circled on my calendar.

7SteelGal43
12-12-2009, 02:42 PM
We need an OC with some imagination. Draw up some WTF plays :chuckle:

Personally, I'm hoping to hear the news soon that we will have a new OC next season.

HometownGal
12-12-2009, 02:43 PM
I know another NFL QB BA "ruined"...Peyton Manning. How'd that turn out for him?

Chris Palmer and, to a much higher degree, Butch Davis ruined Couch.

If the fans ran the teams, we'd have 32 Washington Redskins. Thank CHRIST this is about as much input as they ever get...

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

That is all.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 03:15 PM
31, 23 , 26 and 28 <--those numbers represent where the browns ranked on total offense in the NFL from 2001-2004.

31, 23, 20, and 23 <--those numbers represent where the browns rushing attack ranked in the NFL from 2001-2004.

Zierlein was the offensive line coach at the University of Cincinnati (1997-2000) when Tomlin was the Bearcats' secondary coach and also was the Browns' offensive line coach in 2001-04 when Arians was the offensive coordinator.

they are all buddies. time to hire coaches based on ability and experience rather than how close you are to each other.

I think that is a little unfair in the way it came about.

Tomlin came in... and Arians was ALREADY part of the team. So for the sake of consistency, he was kepted, moved up to OC. My guess is that Z was brought in because Arians had worked with him before.

revefsreleets
12-12-2009, 03:16 PM
Chan Gailey?

Wait.....Huh?

Chan Gailey! He was probably the second most reviled and hated man in the history of the Steelers! This is what it's come too? The fans are asking to replace a medium quality strip steak with some ground chuck? Have you guys LOST your collective MINDS?

Preacher
12-12-2009, 03:25 PM
Chan Gailey?

Wait.....Huh?

Chan Gailey! He was probably the second most reviled and hated man in the history of the Steelers! This is what it's come too? The fans are asking to replace a medium quality strip steak with some ground chuck? Have you guys LOST your collective MINDS?

Don't forget... what we are going through now is ALWAYS the worst thing that has ever happened.

WH
12-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Chan Gailey?

Wait.....Huh?

Chan Gailey! He was probably the second most reviled and hated man in the history of the Steelers! This is what it's come too? The fans are asking to replace a medium quality strip steak with some ground chuck? Have you guys LOST your collective MINDS?

I forgot the tongue-in-cheek emoticon.

Gnutella
12-12-2009, 03:49 PM
I know another NFL QB BA "ruined"...Peyton Manning. How'd that turn out for him?

Peyton Manning was destined to be an excellent QB, so it really didn't take much effort to coach him. Some QBs need more coaching than others to reach their full potential. Roethlisberger is one of those QBs.I like having Ken Anderson as a QB coach, because Anderson was underrated in his day, and while he lacked that "wow" factor, he certainly had that "git 'er done" factor, for lack of a better way of putting it. He's taught Roethlisberger how to be more patient, and even though Roethlisberger occasionally slips back into his old habits, he hasn't done so as often lately as he used to. That's why his completion percentage has jumped, and that's also why the TEs and RBs are a bigger part of the passing game than ever before.

As for Arians, if he stays, then it needs to be in a reduced role. Let him design the plays, but let Roethlisberger call them. If Roethlisberger has good instincts like everybody says, then he'll know the proper calls to make in various situations. Besides, the offense flows better when he calls the plays.

WH
12-12-2009, 04:05 PM
Peyton Manning was destined to be an excellent QB, so it really didn't take much effort to coach him.

I have to agree with you.

Saying Arians coached up Peyton Manning is like saying Bob Berry coached up Mario Lemieux

revefsreleets
12-12-2009, 04:09 PM
I have to agree with you.

Saying Arians coached up Peyton Manning is like saying Bob Berry coached up Mario Lemieux


I see...I see...was Ben?

Because he, too, credits Arians with his successful development....right along with Manning....

Steelerfreak58
12-12-2009, 04:18 PM
All I know is the first two series of the Browns game was enough for me to stomach with Arians. I hope he goes the way of the DODO. Playing to stay in the Playoff race and he didn't adjust to put a TD together against the absolute worst DEFENSE in the league is just unacceptable. The players play the game but the Coaches lead with the play calling and the play calling against the Stains was simply the epitome of the BA offense.

Now that I think of it the Browns seem to have watched the Eagles game from last year and played the exact same game on defense to smash Ben and the O-line.

3rd and 1 and he calls for shotgun with Mendy running for 4.6 yrds a carry... LMAO!:banging:

Glace
12-12-2009, 04:22 PM
I think I'm still on rev's block list.....

But seriously man....6 points on the worst defense in the league...and you're acting as if there is no problem other than the players? Comeon man. Are you related to Arians or what?

Steelerfreak58
12-12-2009, 04:34 PM
I see...I see...was Ben?

Because he, too, credits Arians with his successful development....right along with Manning....

Maybe he is a great players coach (working with young talent) but his game planning and play calling at critical times has been pathetic. He definitely didn't utilize Dixon's strengths during the Ravens game (another "critical" loss).

Good coaches utilize players talents and maximize their abilities to convert downs to drives to TDs Arians has not done that well at all. The Steelers were one of the worst red zone offenses in the league this season that is coaching and play calling.

East End Safety
12-12-2009, 04:44 PM
So tired of hearing the sugar-coating going on over the sports talk radio about how "the ball's just not bouncing our way" right now and how a lot of good teams from last season are struggling around .500 right now, as if that is some excuse for the team's performance over the past five games. Or about how "if Polamalu was playing, we'd be like 9-4 at least". It is such a cop out. It would be one thing if the Steelers looked good in any of the last five games and ended up with a loss or two to decent teams. But they've looked awful... far from the defending super bowl champs... and have lost to Oakland, Kansas City, and Cleveland... that's inexcusable and pathetic. If they can't beat those teams without Polamalu and Smith, they got big problems.

There are problems within, no question about it. Arians is far from the main problem. He's been lauded over the past few seasons by Steelers fans and tv analysts alike for transforming the team into a high-powered passing offense that plays to the team's strengths, namely the quarterback, o-line, and receiver positions. Now all of a sudden he's terrible and has to go - that's BS. There are some internal issues that we are not privy to. The "performances" on the field for the past 5 games are completely indicative of that.

Too much drama all the time from Roethlisberger for one. It becomes a cancer on the team and tears it apart. It gets to the point where no one cares... that's where they are now. His ego, getting himself into trouble off the field time and time again... that stuff wears on a team. Couple that with some key injuries, and a tired o-line... this is what you get - a complete collapse.

WH
12-12-2009, 05:03 PM
I see...I see...was Ben?

Because he, too, credits Arians with his successful development....right along with Manning....

I don't really want to get into Ben - Manning comparing war. They are two QB's that would be best compared on a Venn Diagram.

Bruce Arians may definately be a brilliant QB coach. But he worked with 1 QB...and that was Peyton Manning, one of the top 10 QB's of all time. Being as good as Manning is at his position involves skills that are uncoachable.

Arians' first pupil as a QB coach was the properly cooked Filet Mignon of QB's. All Arians needed to do was add a few additional spices and send it out. (that's a bonkers reference, but i hope you understand what i'm saying). Manning saying that he is mostly responsible for him being as good as he is is a bunch of pomp and circumstance IMO.

After Manning, though, who else was he a QB coach to? No one. He went to Cleveland as OC, and failed with Tim Couch (who was supposed to be a star QB, who knows maybe he needed Bruce to be his QB coach too...) at the helm for two years. Then came to Pittsburgh as a WR coach. Now as the Steelers OChe is currently failing, again.

Arians seems to falter where he has more than one thing to focus on, his head coaching record at Temple would attest to that.

Arians might, for all we know, be the greatest QB coach to ever walk the face of the earth, his only pupil, Peyton Manning, attests to that. But as an OC he is not and has not performed to the level he is expected to perform to.

Yes, he won a superbowl with this offense last year...but what about Cleveland, what about the 2007 Steelers (a team largely consisting of players from both the '08 and '05 Superbowls) and what about this year?

His coaching of individual positions in the offense seems to be mostly win. Manning (luck of the draw?), Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress, Nate Washington, El...etc.

His work as far as developing scheme, calling plays, game time decision etc.... is best suited for someone else. Someone with a larger resume of proven success at the OC position.

Maybe he shouldn't be outright fired.....maybe make him QB coach if Ben <3's him so much.

Just get a new Offensive coordinator that will cater gameplans to this offenses strengths and weaknesses rather than have this ''MY offense'' mentality

WH
12-12-2009, 05:10 PM
There are problems within, no question about it. Arians is far from the main problem. He's been lauded over the past few seasons by Steelers fans and tv analysts alike for transforming the team into a high-powered passing offense that plays to the team's strengths, namely the quarterback, o-line, and receiver positions. .
The O-line on this team is definately NOT a strength.

and I for one, never lauded him and have seen his 1 dimensional gameplanning since he was given the job. Ben's amazing skills have bailed him out on at least a 100 occasions.

East End Safety
12-12-2009, 05:31 PM
I
Yes, he won a superbowl with this offense last year...

Just get a new Offensive coordinator that will cater gameplans to this offenses strengths and weaknesses rather than have this ''MY offense'' mentality

Well, let's see... he won a Super Bowl with this offense...

I guess winning a super bowl no longer gives a coach any job security, huh?

As for catering gameplans to the offense's strengths... that's what everyone's been saying he has done! Changing the offense from one which relies entirely on the run (even when the Steelers didn't have a true every down back - sorry but fast Willie Parker doesn't measure up) to one that plays to their strengths in the passing game, focusing on Ben, Hines, Santonio, Heath is exactly what he's done and the Steelers have actually been exciting to watch on offense for the first time in a while. Not too many people were complaining about Arians play-calling after the super bowl and the first half of this season. Now though, he's the worst coach ever.

I'm not even an Arians fan by any means, but it just is completely ridiculous to blame him for what's going on right now. The blocking has been terrible, Ben's timing has been way off, coverage has been terrible, and tackling has been pitiful. Everyone sitting on their couch who likely have never played a down of organized football in their lives love to question the play-calling and always think they they know how to break the defense better than the team's OC. The Steelers' troubles right now go far beyond the OC's play-calling. It's typical to react to losses that way though.

East End Safety
12-12-2009, 05:39 PM
The O-line on this team is definately NOT a strength.

and I for one, never lauded him and have seen his 1 dimensional gameplanning since he was given the job. Ben's amazing skills have bailed him out on at least a 100 occasions.

No, it isn't, not THIS season. And that is a primary reason they are struggling. But it sure has been in the very recent past. And that was what was said about Arians' game plans - pass blocking for Ben.

You may not have. But a lot of people sure have, including many of the tv analysts talking about he has done such an amazing job transforming the Steelers into a "passing team" in such a short time period (in his first season as OC). Hey, I don't know if these claims are true or not. But regardless, all of a sudden, Arians cannot become the goat for the Steelers crappy play.

And... Ben's "amazing skills" had a ton to do with a strong o-line working in sync. It's not strong now and definitely not working in sync... and Ben is certainly not displaying these "amazing skills" as of late.

WH
12-12-2009, 05:55 PM
Well, let's see... he won a Super Bowl with this offense...

I guess winning a super bowl no longer gives a coach any job security, huh? Not with a follow up season like this, IMO.


As for catering gameplans to the offense's strengths... that's what everyone's been saying he has done! Changing the offense from one which relies entirely on the run (even when the Steelers didn't have a true every down back - sorry but fast Willie Parker doesn't measure up) to one that plays to their strengths in the passing game, focusing on Ben, Hines, Santonio, Heath is exactly what he's done and the Steelers have actually been exciting to watch on offense for the first time in a while. Not too many people were complaining about Arians play-calling after the super bowl and the first half of this season. Now though, he's the worst coach ever. Many people were complaining about it after game 2...it's just snowballed since then.

Sure, he turned a team that was run heavy into a pass heavy offense, when the team had no running threat....But the Steelers have had a serious running threat for almost a half a season. He's not allowed to change his gameplan until the seasons over? That is hardly catering.


I'm not even an Arians fan by any means, but it just is completely ridiculous to blame him for what's going on right now. The blocking has been terrible, Ben's timing has been way off.
Then why not make adjustments? He's been a coach for many years, surely he can make adjustments. If Ben's timing is off, don't make him throw 30+ times a game. If the blocking is terrible....give the impression that you might run the ball so the defense has to move players up the field and free up some room in the passing game.

No one here is denying there are personel issues, just that Bruce isn't adjusting his gameplan to try and help compensate for those issues.

Preacher
12-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Not with a follow up season like this, IMO.

Many people were complaining about it after game 2...it's just snowballed since then.

Sure, he turned a team that was run heavy into a pass heavy offense, when the team had no running threat....But the Steelers have had a serious running threat for almost a half a season. He's not allowed to change his gameplan until the seasons over? That is hardly catering.



Then why not make adjustments? He's been a coach for many years, surely he can make adjustments. If Ben's timing is off, don't make him throw 30+ times a game. If the blocking is terrible....give the impression that you might run the ball so the defense has to move players up the field and free up some room in the passing game.

No one here is denying there are personel issues, just that Bruce isn't adjusting his gameplan to try and help compensate for those issues.

This is probably teh first post I have agreed with you on in the entire aftermath.

WH
12-12-2009, 06:06 PM
And... Ben's "amazing skills" had a ton to do with a strong o-line working in sync. It's not strong now and definitely not working in sync... and Ben is certainly not displaying these "amazing skills" as of late.

So all those times when Ben had to rollout left/right or dip and duck to avoid a sack had to do with great Oline play?

Again, If it's a Ben problem this year....Then why is Bruce having him throw 30+ times a game.

BigBen'sSwagger
12-12-2009, 06:30 PM
This guy hit every nail on the head top to bottom Bullseye!!!

We won a Superbowl with B.A. but we also won with Mitch Berger and I don't see him back this year in a Steeler uniform.

WH
12-12-2009, 06:42 PM
This is probably teh first post I have agreed with you on in the entire aftermath.

:hatsoff:

Doing my best to get rid of that Troll tag

East End Safety
12-14-2009, 12:04 AM
...

East End Safety
12-14-2009, 12:06 AM
Sure, he turned a team that was run heavy into a pass heavy offense, when the team had no running threat....But the Steelers have had a serious running threat for almost a half a season. He's not allowed to change his gameplan until the seasons over? That is hardly catering.

Then why not make adjustments? He's been a coach for many years, surely he can make adjustments. If Ben's timing is off, don't make him throw 30+ times a game. If the blocking is terrible....give the impression that you might run the ball so the defense has to move players up the field and free up some room in the passing game.

No one here is denying there are personel issues, just that Bruce isn't adjusting his gameplan to try and help compensate for those issues.

There's no doubt that there are problems with the offense, but it's always the same old, knee-jerk reaction to complain about the offensive coordinator and demand that he must be fired. Like I said above, I'm not a huge Arians fan by any means, but it's simply ignorant to say the guy needs to be fired because his offensive play-calling is crap, when that same offense won the super bowl last season.

With this line of thinking, maybe Dick LeBeau should go to? Because the defense certainly hasn't been performing too hot. Think we should do that? Is LeBeau incompetent now too? His defense gave up 27 points in losses to both the Chiefs and Raiders (with Gradkowski passing for over 300 yds), while the Steelers racked up over 500 and 400 total offensive yards in those games. Were thos losses the offense's fault????? The defense also gave up over 170 yds rushing to the BROWNS! What gives? So, going on a stupid line of thinking, LeBeau should be gone before the season ends.

Glace
12-14-2009, 10:15 AM
We won a Superbowl with B.A. but we also won with Mitch Berger and I don't see him back this year in a Steeler uniform.

:rofl:

Good point

xbroughneck
12-14-2009, 11:55 AM
Again....Arians is far from my biggest complaint this year. I think the offense has been pretty good..actually very good..except for the following scenarios.

1) Inside the redzone
2) The Cleveland game.

And I put both of those on Bruce Arians because I think he views running plays as nothing more than a means to free up receivers for a pass. The problem is, he doesn't appear to know how to call run plays.

He can draw up stuff on his board...but can he make adjustments when he see's that what he's drawn up isn't working?

Sure. Ben has his faults. At times he'll take a sack just because he's worried about throwing a pick. He doesn't read defenses quickly (anyone remember last year when EVERY audible he seemed to call was a run play up the middle?).

That said, I think Ben is still one of the top 5 QBs in the game today. Those don't come by very often (Kordell, Tomzak, Brister, O'Donnell)

Offensive coordinators...those guys seem to be pretty easy to replace. I'm not saying "I" could do it, but with the horses we've got it'd be pretty hard to draw up an offense that couldn't do what we've done this year...yet with a different scheme.

Yes...BALANCE is important. This year's offense actually looks pretty balanced.

The situational playcalling though, has SUCKED.

zulater
12-14-2009, 11:56 AM
There's no doubt that there are problems with the offense, but it's always the same old, knee-jerk reaction to complain about the offensive coordinator and demand that he must be fired. Like I said above, I'm not a huge Arians fan by any means, but it's simply ignorant to say the guy needs to be fired because his offensive play-calling is crap, when that same offense won the super bowl last season.

With this line of thinking, maybe Dick LeBeau should go to? Because the defense certainly hasn't been performing too hot. Think we should do that? Is LeBeau incompetent now too? His defense gave up 27 points in losses to both the Chiefs and Raiders (with Gradkowski passing for over 300 yds), while the Steelers racked up over 500 and 400 total offensive yards in those games. Were thos losses the offense's fault????? The defense also gave up over 170 yds rushing to the BROWNS! What gives? So, going on a stupid line of thinking, LeBeau should be gone before the season ends.

I honestly don't remember Steelers fans complaining much about the OC and playcalling when Whisenhunt was calling the plays. Go review the way he called the games in the 2005 playoffs. How he maximized his talent almost every game. Notice how he managed to put up 21 points in a Super Bowl where his quarterback was misfiring most of the game.

Calling for a two to one pass to run ratio against a team ranked 31st against the run on a blustery day with reported 40 mph cross winds is indefensible and hopefully will be the impetus for his seasons end ouster.

pepsyman1
12-14-2009, 12:09 PM
I honestly don't remember Steelers fans complaining much about the OC and playcalling when Whisenhunt was calling the plays. Go review the way he called the games in the 2005 playoffs. How he maximized his talent almost every game. Notice how he managed to put up 21 points in a Super Bowl where his quarterback was misfiring most of the game.

Calling for a two to one pass to run ratio against a team ranked 31st against the run on a blustery day with reported 40 mph cross winds is indefensible and hopefully will be the impetus for his seasons end ouster.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

Bubby Blister
12-14-2009, 12:35 PM
Glad to see things are changing, but I wish these threads would have been allowed to stay up 8 games ago, someone in the Steeler organization may have done something earlier about Arians.

I guess because most people are by nature REACTIVE and do not understand individuals with the intelligence to be PROACTIVE when assessing and discussing our beloved Steelers.

In the future, perhaps Hometown Gal can allow all opinions posted whether they are negative or positive. Wearing rose coloured glasses and being a Steelers fan may be enjoyable for some, I prefer to unveil major problems before they happen.

Again, and hopefully for the last time, I say Bruce Arians go back to CLEVELAND!

WH
12-14-2009, 12:53 PM
I honestly don't remember Steelers fans complaining much about the OC and playcalling when Whisenhunt was calling the plays. Go review the way he called the games in the 2005 playoffs. How he maximized his talent almost every game. Notice how he managed to put up 21 points in a Super Bowl where his quarterback was misfiring most of the game.

Calling for a two to one pass to run ratio against a team ranked 31st against the run on a blustery day with reported 40 mph cross winds is indefensible and hopefully will be the impetus for his seasons end ouster.
good to see some DBI logic CREEPING over here. :wink02:

The_WARDen
12-14-2009, 12:56 PM
Glad to see things are changing, but I wish these threads would have been allowed to stay up 8 games ago, someone in the Steeler organization may have done something earlier about Arians.

I guess because most people are by nature REACTIVE and do not understand individuals with the intelligence to be PROACTIVE when assessing and discussing our beloved Steelers.

In the future, perhaps Hometown Gal can allow all opinions posted whether they are negative or positive. Wearing rose coloured glasses and being a Steelers fan may be enjoyable for some, I prefer to unveil major problems before they happen.

Again, and hopefully for the last time, I say Bruce Arians go back to CLEVELAND!

We're not worthy! We're not worthy oh wise sage!

:hide:

Angus Burgher
12-14-2009, 01:02 PM
I think Arians should be replaced; my concern though is what if we get someone WORSE?

Bear in mind that Tomlin & Co. appointed this guy as OC. They also brought in Ligashitsky. The Ligashitsky hiring is the one that really concerns me, because even though he had moderate success the first two years with the Steelers, he had a horrible resume; so much to the point that it was a wonder anyone hired him at all. And now we are seeing just how terrible he truly is.

My worry is that Tomlin has no eye for talent in the coaching positions. Whoever he hires might have immediate success and we'll be praising them as geniuses, but once other teams catch wind of their schemes, will the new guys be able to adapt or will they fall into the same pattern Arians and Ligashitsky have?

Bubby Blister
12-14-2009, 01:04 PM
ESPN - Bleacher Report - Bye Bye Coaches

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Nick Signorelli

Adam Schefter of ESPN reported today that there are changes coming to the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Special Team coach Bob Ligashesky will be released at the end of the season. The Steelers special teams have been anything BUT special this season, allowing huge kick off returns against the Browns, Vikings, Chiefs, and numerous times, the special teams have allowed players to get close on punts as well.

Bruce Arians is also in a good deal of trouble, according to Schefter. The Steelers will be either demoting or firing him at the end of the season.

Arians has become one of the most predictable coordinators in the NFL, failing more than he succeeds. Too many times the Steelers are unable to punch the ball into the end zone once they reach the red zone.

With all the weapons on offense, this Steelers team should be one of the most high scoring units in the history of the Steelers.

SteelCityMom
12-14-2009, 04:07 PM
Glad to see things are changing, but I wish these threads would have been allowed to stay up 8 games ago, someone in the Steeler organization may have done something earlier about Arians.

I guess because most people are by nature REACTIVE and do not understand individuals with the intelligence to be PROACTIVE when assessing and discussing our beloved Steelers.

In the future, perhaps Hometown Gal can allow all opinions posted whether they are negative or positive. Wearing rose coloured glasses and being a Steelers fan may be enjoyable for some, I prefer to unveil major problems before they happen.

Again, and hopefully for the last time, I say Bruce Arians go back to CLEVELAND!

LMFAO!

Sorry, but you make it sound like the threads here are read by the Steelers FO and that they would ever take the advice of fans. That's just absurd.

If HTG closed a thread about BA, it was simply because there were most likely at least 5 other threads that all said the same thing. I understand people being upset and all...but I give her and the other mods credit. Most people don't have the frame of mind to do a simple search to see if the topic they want to make a thread about has already been posted (sometimes multiple times, as has been the case throughout the year with Arians threads....and last year for that matter from what I could tell). My guess is your thread fell into that category, because believe me, people have been able to voice their opinions all year on the matter...ad nauseam.

AllD
12-14-2009, 04:27 PM
Maybe we can trade Arians to Dallas for a truckload of nachos.

WH
12-14-2009, 04:30 PM
Maybe we can trade Arians to Dallas for a truckload of nachos.

I would take the giant TV they have above their field.

Glace
12-14-2009, 04:41 PM
I would take the giant TV they have above their field.

Could open up one heck of a drive-in with that thing.

WH
12-14-2009, 04:51 PM
Could open up one heck of a drive-in with that thing.

Imagine The Penn State movie nights with that thing set up.