PDA

View Full Version : Steelers D = OLD


Bobby_Walden
12-13-2009, 07:58 AM
From an article in the PG:

Here are the ages next year of some starting defenders: Casey Hampton, 33; Brett Keisel, 32; Aaron Smith, 34; James Farrior, 35; James Harrison, 32; Ike Taylor, 30; Ryan Clark, 31. And the ages of their top replacements: Tyrone Carter, 34; Deshea Townsend, 35; Travis Kirschke, 36; Chris Hoke, 34; Nick Eason, 30.


Watching the Steelers play this year makes me realize that this probably explains the falling apart in the 2nd half of the season and the 4th qtr collapses.

Harrison is still a force and Brett K. is playing well. Smith is out.
Overall the place the D looks horrible is in the secondary and at Farriors spot.
Farrior has looked slow more than once running behind the guy he was covering.

We need to draft some speed and toughness on D, soon.
I thought the Ravens looked so much more physical than us in this past meeting.

This team needs those young legs.

Should be an interesting off season.

Vincent
12-13-2009, 09:14 AM
Many will pan that article http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09347/1020571-66.stm as "consider the source", but it does point that we have an ancient defense. That alarming fact has eluded me in my puzzlement with the demise of this season. "Hmmm. Why are they blowing 4th Q leads and letting bull@#$% teams hang around? Hmmmm. What could it be?". They're old. They're out of gas. Thinking back, we started seeing that at the end of 07. Given that fact, they played an astonishing 08. In 09 dey jus' all wored out.

Should I start a "fire Colbert" thread? :chuckle:

Burghfan58
12-13-2009, 09:25 AM
From an article in the PG:

Here are the ages next year of some starting defenders: Casey Hampton, 33; Brett Keisel, 32; Aaron Smith, 34; James Farrior, 35; James Harrison, 32; Ike Taylor, 30; Ryan Clark, 31. And the ages of their top replacements: Tyrone Carter, 34; Deshea Townsend, 35; Travis Kirschke, 36; Chris Hoke, 34; Nick Eason, 30.


Watching the Steelers play this year makes me realize that this probably explains the falling apart in the 2nd half of the season and the 4th qtr collapses.

Harrison is still a force and Brett K. is playing well. Smith is out.
Overall the place the D looks horrible is in the secondary and at Farriors spot.
Farrior has looked slow more than once running behind the guy he was covering.

We need to draft some speed and toughness on D, soon.
I thought the Ravens looked so much more physical than us in this past meeting.

This team needs those young legs.

Should be an interesting off season.

Unfortunately this won't happen in one offseason. They will need to do it piece by piece and that takes time. Dare I say rebuilding. Injuries also play a huge part and that's where we also need some depth. Troy can't make it through a whole season and that will continue to be a problem.

HometownGal
12-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Ah hell - they're all youngins to me. :chuckle:

I do believe our D's age overall may factor into their problems holding onto leads in the 4Q this season. Though common sense prevails here that these guys aren't going to play into their 40's, I just can't imagine a Steelers D without them! :jawdrop: On the flip side of the coin, though, I had trouble fathoming a Steelers D without Mean Joe, Lambert, Ham, Blount & Co. and begrudgingly got past it and realized that at some point, the D would need to go into rebuilding mode and sadly, that may well be the case with this group of guys.

Rick5895
12-13-2009, 09:42 AM
The NFL is a game of speed and quickness. It only takes a half step of speed lost to make a difference, usually that comes with age no matter how physically fit or in shape we are. As things have unfolded, that seems to be the case with the Steelers.
But all is not lost, we still have Troy, Mundy , I believe will be a good player. I think we have something in both Lewis and Burnett. Hood will be a good player. I am sure we can get another season or 2 out of Smith, Keisel Hoke and hopefully retain Big Snack for another year. We need safety help and linebacker help sooner.
A player worth watching, Graham out of Michigan. I believe he is a Woodley clone and may be available in the second or third round.

SteelerEmpire
12-13-2009, 09:54 AM
At about the age of 35 is when you start to physically decline... look for some of those guys to be replaced this off-season (ours starts in 3 weeks). Even Rich Lebeau (71 or 72) is starting to call some plays on Defense that simply don't make sense... God bless him, and Mr Rooney's (a truely good man) Steeler organization...

Shellshock
12-13-2009, 11:04 AM
Don't worry, 2010 will be an uncapped year and the Steelers will be big spenders. Ha ha ha.

Hayeksheroes
12-13-2009, 12:08 PM
The old men were 6-2 and at the top of their game five weeks ago. What happened? Don't know. But if a coach gives the team the whole bye week off, these guys get lazy. So, you see 3 qtrs of effort and 1 qtrs of collapse.

By the way, the 18-1 Patriots D were older than the Steelers D.

Preacher
12-13-2009, 12:21 PM
Many will pan that article http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09347/1020571-66.stm as "consider the source", but it does point that we have an ancient defense. That alarming fact has eluded me in my puzzlement with the demise of this season. "Hmmm. Why are they blowing 4th Q leads and letting bull@#$% teams hang around? Hmmmm. What could it be?". They're old. They're out of gas. Thinking back, we started seeing that at the end of 07. Given that fact, they played an astonishing 08. In 09 dey jus' all wored out.

Should I start a "fire Colbert" thread? :chuckle:

I think, 2007 was a different story. Tomlin wore them out in preseason camp and by putting them in pads for practice in the season.

2008 was a balance.

You may be right about 2009.. except that the only ones who's age probably a factor is our D line, which has done a very good job stuffing the run, and Potsie. Harrison has played very well, the rest of our LB's are young.

Ike T. is 29, which isn't exactly old. Gay is young. Troy and Ryan Clark are fine when they are playing (those injuries aren't age related injuries.).

So for the defense, whose age exactly is causing the problems? Keisel and Farrior? All our NT is SUPPOSED to do is occupy a couple guys, and protect two gaps. he isn't supposed to get too far upfield. That takes strength, not speed.

I don't think age on our team is as big a deal as some make it out to be.

But Vincent, you bring up a good point that it may be showing its head in the 4th quarter. Some subs however, should be able to take care of the problem.

MACH1
12-13-2009, 12:23 PM
30 is the new 20. :popcorn:

Fire Haley
12-13-2009, 01:39 PM
The old men were 6-2 and at the top of their game five weeks ago. What happened?

I blame injuries. Our back-ups suck.
The old guys hold up for awhile, but we are getting SLOWER every week.



The D got tired (literally) of continually having to bail out the offense.

We need some young hungry legs too from the drafts too. Picking #30 every year has it's consequences. Teams are picking up good young guys while we're hanging onto that open window.

lamberts-lost-tooth
12-13-2009, 01:42 PM
As I said in another thread...Some of our players are indeed gettng older and by nature will wear down as the season progresses...the other part of that equation is the fact that we have to use "wave" players to fill it at key slot.

Alone we could probably overcome either...together and we give up big plays.

Tone's Toes
12-13-2009, 03:15 PM
It's a combination of older guys declining and injuries. I blame most of it on the injuries, though. The D would have been much better this season if Troy and Aaron Smith would have stayed healthy, imo.

Steeldude
12-13-2009, 03:45 PM
they were old 5 years ago, but the steelers let it snowball. IMO, instead of picking WRs nearly every year, they have been investing in the DL and OL.

PalmerSteel
12-13-2009, 04:04 PM
the injuries have made them old

Preacher
12-13-2009, 05:20 PM
they were old 5 years ago, but the steelers let it snowball. IMO, instead of picking WRs nearly every year, they have been investing in the DL and OL.

:huh:

We picked a WR in the first round, who caught the SB winning TD, as well as being the go to man on the drive. He was drafted 4 years ago to replace one of 2 wr's that left.

We picked a 2nd round WR, who has yet to show anything. He was picked at the beginning of last year as BPA. Don't forget all the O and D were gone that we wanted.

We picked a 3rd round receiver this year, when we had no idea about returners.

In that same time, we picked a first round DL player, brought in a FA starter on the O line, Drafted another O line player in the 3rd round this year.

I think this is more frustration than reality speaken. I understand that, but the reality is... we HAVENT overly focused on WR's to the detriment of the line. For the most part, we were drafting to low to pick up who we wanted on the line.

stillers4me
12-13-2009, 05:24 PM
For the most part, we were drafting to low to pick up who we wanted on the line.

I guess we solved that problem. :banging:

GodfatherofSoul
12-13-2009, 05:31 PM
While the age argument is relevant, why blame the defense? They gave up 13 points. Our offense scored 6 points against the #30th ranked defense in the league.

steelbad@50
12-13-2009, 05:42 PM
While the age argument is relevant, why blame the defense? They gave up 13 points. Our offense scored 6 points against the #30th ranked defense in the league.Now theres a thread ender, NUFF SAID:checkit:

Preacher
12-13-2009, 05:44 PM
Now theres a thread ender, NUFF SAID:checkit:

:chuckle: Too true... THis time.

But when we were putting up 20 something points... or had the lead with just a minute or two left, and let the other teams continually come back and score on us, well, that is a D problem.

steelbad@50
12-13-2009, 05:52 PM
The problem is at all three phases of our game , and that has been said many times on this board. But i do agree with you, the D needs to be fixed first. :tt02:

markymarc
12-14-2009, 11:43 AM
I believe age has caught up to us especially on the defensive side! IMO it will take at least 2-3 seasons to rebuild it with younger and talented legs.

Steeldude
12-14-2009, 01:22 PM
We picked a WR in the first round, who caught the SB winning TD

would you trade holmes for a top flight tackle or DL? i can't believe people are still using holmes' average SB catch as a measuring stick for his career. who is to say another WR wouldn't have caught the average catch? perhaps a different WR would have caught the first pass holmes dropped in the endzone. holmes has not lived up to his 1st round status or his ego yet, IMO. i personally wanted mangold is 2005.

the steelers have drafted only 3 DL in the 1st round in the last 30+ years. four 1st round picks were spent on WRs in the last 10 years. what the steelers have now are some old DL and some average and/or untalented OL. neither of which has any promising replacements in the wings, except for hood.

i'll take DL, LB, DB and OL over a WR every day of the year. WRs are one of the easier positions to fill. for a team that is supposed to be built on defense and the running game; they sure like WRs. i would love it if a team would take holmes and our 1st and 2nd to move up and grab suh or berry(if available)

the WR is nowhere near the problem position as OL and DL. i wouldn't be surprised of the steelers select a WR in the 1st round for the next 3 seasons.

i understand what you're saying and it makes sense and is logical, but personally do not value WRs very high. of course there are certain situations that would change my mind, but for the most part they aren't a high priority.

steelerchad
12-14-2009, 01:59 PM
would you trade holmes for a top flight tackle or DL? i can't believe people are still using holmes' average SB catch as a measuring stick for his career. who is to say another WR wouldn't have caught the average catch? perhaps a different WR would have caught the first pass holmes dropped in the endzone. holmes has not lived up to his 1st round status or his ego yet, IMO. i personally wanted mangold is 2005.

the steelers have drafted only 3 DL in the 1st round in the last 30+ years. four 1st round picks were spent on WRs in the last 10 years. what the steelers have now are some old DL and some average and/or untalented OL. neither of which has any promising replacements in the wings, except for hood.

i'll take DL, LB, DB and OL over a WR every day of the year. WRs are one of the easier positions to fill. for a team that is supposed to be built on defense and the running game; they sure like WRs. i would love it if a team would take holmes and our 1st and 2nd to move up and grab suh or berry(if available)

the WR is nowhere near the problem position as OL and DL. i wouldn't be surprised of the steelers select a WR in the 1st round for the next 3 seasons.

i understand what you're saying and it makes sense and is logical, but personally do not value WRs very high. of course there are certain situations that would change my mind, but for the most part they aren't a high priority.



I'm with you on the value of receivers not being very high. Most only touch the ball an average of 5-6 times a game.

I actually value RB's even less as running game tends to be determined by line push more than anything. Good RB's are a dime a dozen and they only last an average of 5 good years. Great ones are few and far between, so just grab yourself 2 pretty good ones and focus on a solid line and your running game will be fine.

I like Mendy, I think he was the bright spot this year. I know he was the BPA when we picked him, but man could we have used some help on either line.

The_WARDen
12-14-2009, 02:04 PM
The old men were 6-2 and at the top of their game five weeks ago. What happened? Don't know. But if a coach gives the team the whole bye week off, these guys get lazy. So, you see 3 qtrs of effort and 1 qtrs of collapse.

By the way, the 18-1 Patriots D were older than the Steelers D.

ummm...that Patriot offense was scoring 40 PPG. This Steeler offense is about half that.

The one game where the Pats offense didn't drop 40 was the SB and what happened when they actually neeeded their D to make a stop in the last 2 minutes? That's right, they looked alot like this year's Steeler defense.

SteelerFanInATL
12-16-2009, 06:32 AM
The old men were 6-2 and at the top of their game five weeks ago. What happened? Don't know. But if a coach gives the team the whole bye week off, these guys get lazy. So, you see 3 qtrs of effort and 1 qtrs of collapse.

By the way, the 18-1 Patriots D were older than the Steelers D.

** 18-1

** = Did not win the Superbowl. So really, how effective were they

solardave
12-16-2009, 08:15 AM
Ah hell - they're all youngins to me. :chuckle:

I do believe our D's age overall may factor into their problems holding onto leads in the 4Q this season. Though common sense prevails here that these guys aren't going to play into their 40's, I just can't imagine a Steelers D without them! :jawdrop: On the flip side of the coin, though, I had trouble fathoming a Steelers D without Mean Joe, Lambert, Ham, Blount & Co. and begrudgingly got past it and realized that at some point, the D would need to go into rebuilding mode and sadly, that may well be the case with this group of guys.

The age of the D has been on my mind for the last couple of years. I too miss Mean Joe but I also remember him playing past his prime and Knoll kept him in even though his performance was in a steep decline. It was sad to watch him struggle. Much like we're seeing now. I've always said our FO is the best. I just think lately they have not looked to build depth with younger players and I think this will hurt us for a couple of years at least.I HOPE I'M WRONG!!

Rick5895
12-16-2009, 08:34 AM
Part of the problem in recent years is where we have drafted. Continually drafting in the lower third of round 1, I think forces you to take the best player available. I think Hood will be very good. But you can not reach for players because of need, our f/o does a pretty good job evaluating talent coming out of college. We have had a couple of misses aswell (Bruce Davis). I am happy with the O LINE they do a decent job, the DL is another matter, we need another draft choice this upcoming season there. ILB and safety as well. I think our DL will be fine for 1 more season, although they are getting older most of these guys didn't play a considerable amount until later in careers. Kiesel has a lot left, a healthy Smith should have another year. Young guys Harris and Hood should be better to help next season. We may very well need to find a NT, although I hope Hampton becomes the D's version of Bettis.
Our pressing need on D right now is to find the replacement for Farrior and another safety.