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revefsreleets
12-15-2009, 12:32 PM
What are ALL the players saying? Nobody is blaming Arians? Why was their confusion along the offensive line? Was THAT Arians fault? The DB's were getting the wrong calls? Arians again?

Where are all the players saying that Tomlin has lost control?

Silly James Farrior...you CAN'T let the coaches tell you that it's poor player execution, nor can you let James Harrison say that it's players trying to do too much...this is ALL Arians fault and he should be fired!

http://hsconnect.com/page/content.detail/id/97236.html?isap=1&nav=5019

Steelers baffled, upset by mystifying collapse

AP

"Steelers baffled, upset by mystifying collapse "

PITTSBURGH (AP) — The disappointment and confusion are very evident in a downcast Pittsburgh Steelers locker room. An explanation for one of the most baffling failures by any Super Bowl champion isn't nearly as obvious.



Normally in mid-December, the Steelers (6-7) are trying to get healthy as they gear up for the playoffs. Instead, the Steelers returned to work on a gloomy Monday knowing their season is all but certain to end Jan. 3 in Miami.



Losses to three of the NFL's worst teams — the Browns (2-11), Raiders (4-9) and Chiefs (3-10) — plus defeats to Cincinnati (9-4) and Baltimore (7-6) quickly turned a very good season into a very bad one. Now the offseason looks to be unexpectedly long and unpleasantly empty for a team that's appeared in four AFC championship games since 2001.



As that offseason rapidly approaches, the Steelers' angst is turning into anger.



"A lot of guys are down," left guard Chris Kemoeatu said. "Everybody's miserable around here."



Including the head coach. Mike Tomlin didn't make the team practice four days following the 13-6 loss in Cleveland, but he held a walkthrough that addressed all the mistakes they made during their fifth consecutive loss.



The session wasn't pleasant.



"He's pretty upset about these losses," linebacker James Farrior said. "He feels like it's more on us than anything else, and that's the most frustrating thing about it."



Every player seems to have a theory for how the Steelers' season went wrong. James Harrison said it's players getting away from their responsibilities and trying to make plays they shouldn't or couldn't make. Others point to a lack of focus. Troy Polamalu targets the kicking game breakdowns and the poor situational play; the Steelers are 1-7 in games decided by seven points or fewer.



The defensive backs said they didn't get the proper play calls late in the loss to Oakland. Kemoeatu said there was a lack of communication along the offensive line as Ben Roethlisberger was sacked eight times in Cleveland.



As the defeats mounted, the Steelers' confidence ebbed and doubt developed.



"We're doing everything we can to fight it because we have to go out and play these next three games and we can't have anybody doubting that we can win a game," Farrior said. "We know we can win a game, but being in a situation like this is pretty tough, to think you might not be capable of winning a game. We definitely have the athletes in here that can do it. We've proved it in the past."



Another problem for the rest of the season is that remaining opponents Green Bay (9-4), Baltimore and Miami (7-6) all are in playoff contention.



The Steelers' last six-game losing streak occurred 10 years ago, when they went 6-10 following a 5-3 start. They haven't had a losing streak of longer than six games since they dropped their final 13 in 1969, plus their first three in 1970.



"It's definitely a shock," Farrior said. "It's definitely somewhere where we never imagined being."



Even if the Steelers perform a late turnaround by winning their final three, the playoffs remain a longshot because they are 1-4 in the AFC North and 4-6 in the AFC. All nine AFC teams that are 7-6 or better own a better conference record than Pittsburgh.



"No, we stopped doing that," Farrior said. "We did that a few games ago, looking at the rest of the schedule and saying if we win our and all that stuff. Man, we're just trying to beat Green Bay. That's what we've gotten to now."



But when did they get themselves into this mess? When they couldn't put beat Cincinnati in a close game for the second time this season? When the Kansas City loss segued into an overtime defeat in Baltimore and, then, the unexplainable last-minute loss at home to Oakland?



Hines Ward said the Steelers' season was over if they lost to the Raiders — and not only did they lose, they followed it by losing in Cleveland.



"No, man, I don't pay attention to Hines. I didn't think like that after we lost the Oakland game," Farrior said. "I really felt like we still had a chance, the way it's been going around the league you never know what's going to happen. But we definitely dealt ourselves into something (in Cleveland) we probably can't get out of."

fansince'76
12-15-2009, 12:39 PM
Ah, everyone knows they just lie and spew BS to the press to get to the next question.... :coffee:

tony hipchest
12-15-2009, 12:41 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.

"We're doing everything we can to fight it because we have to go out and play these next three games and we can't have anybody doubting that we can win a game," Farrior said. "We know we can win a game, but being in a situation like this is pretty tough, to think you might not be capable of winning a game. We definitely have the athletes in here that can do it. We've proved it in the past."

so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:

KeiselPower99
12-15-2009, 01:55 PM
19 runs against a crappy team is unacceptable. Same with Oakland.

SteelMember
12-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Let's pass the ball 40 times with inclimate weather... With Ben wearing a glove... on both hands.
They'll never expect it. :doh:

steelreserve
12-15-2009, 02:40 PM
Every player seems to have a theory for how the Steelers' season went wrong. James Harrison said it's players getting away from their responsibilities and trying to make plays they shouldn't or couldn't make. Others point to a lack of focus. Troy Polamalu targets the kicking game breakdowns and the poor situational play; the Steelers are 1-7 in games decided by seven points or fewer.



The defensive backs said they didn't get the proper play calls late in the loss to Oakland. Kemoeatu said there was a lack of communication along the offensive line as Ben Roethlisberger was sacked eight times in Cleveland.


So basically, everyone is pointing at everything as the cause of the problem.

I guess that somehow proves you're right. Because in your mind, everything does.

Seriously, man. The meltdown the Steelers are going through is nothing compared to the one you are.

Preacher
12-15-2009, 04:40 PM
IMO, what that article shows is that there are SOME problems EVERYWHERE on the team.

The combination of those problems are too much for the team to surmount.

That is why I do not believe we are in a "meltdown" Instead, we are just dealing with "A death of a thousand cuts" instead of a stab to the heart.

steelreserve
12-15-2009, 04:51 PM
IMO, what that article shows is that there are SOME problems EVERYWHERE on the team.

The combination of those problems are too much for the team to surmount.

That is why I do not believe we are in a "meltdown" Instead, we are just dealing with "A death of a thousand cuts" instead of a stab to the heart.

Well, yeah, duh.

And I don't even view them as fundamental "problems with the team," so much as inexplicable breakdowns all over the place.

In the context of a single season, that's probably the same thing, though.

I just don't see how any of this proves that Arians (or any one individual) is NOT to blame for the current state of affairs, as the OP seems to think. The article was more like, "hey there are about a dozen things we can think of that could be the problem," not "this one thing is specifically not the problem."

But oh well, what do I know. Next thing I know, I'll be hearing that I'm not only unqualified to run an NFL offense, I'm also unqualified to read a news story.

Fire Haley
12-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Of course the players are at fault. They make the plays. (or not)

The defense better be more worried about getting ass-raped by the Packers than finger-pointing anyway.

Dino 6 Rings
12-15-2009, 04:55 PM
The defense better be more worried about getting ass-raped by the Packers.

I tend to agree with you. I've watched the Packers these last few weeks and they are really playing better on both sides of the ball. We better show up with our A Game firing on all cylinders at 110% and whatever other colorful metaphors you would like to add, otherwise we are going to have a mudhole stomped into our face.

tony hipchest
12-15-2009, 04:55 PM
winning cures everything, and losing exacerbates all problems. ed bouchette seems to think there really isnt anything to these rumors of a rift other than everyone being pissed, upset and embarrassed by losing. still there are reasons to the losing.

theres alot of analysts, experts, ex nfl people, writers, and fans who say it cant be troy and that his loss is no excuse, and the steelers are still capable of winning.

i listen to marty shottenheimer everyday on sirius, and he was one in this camp. today he sounded almost saddened before interviewing lamarr woodly, saying how he has always loved the steelers, rooted for them since the 50's and how they are the best organization in all of football, and he desperately wants to see them turn it around.

he said, he has come to the conlusion that troy does make all the difference in the world and told woodley he was officially making a 180 degree turn on his previous stance. woodley said what many other players have refused too. troy is that one guy who will always make that huge play that fires up the team and makes the difference.

i stick to my initial stance after the bears game that troy single handedly wins games. he is our lynch pin. with that being said, there are many other reasons we have lost games. the easiest to immediately solve is a quick change in philosophy in regards to offensive play calling.

like farrior basically says, the players are there, proven, and capable of winning when they have no doubt. a non predictable, well called game would extinguish that doubt.

Preacher
12-15-2009, 04:56 PM
Well, yeah, duh.

And I don't even view them as fundamental "problems with the team," so much as inexplicable breakdowns all over the place.

In the context of a single season, that's probably the same thing, though.

I just don't see how any of this proves that Arians (or any one individual) is NOT to blame for the current state of affairs, as the OP seems to think. The article was more like, "hey there are about a dozen things we can think of that could be the problem," not "this one thing is specifically not the problem."

But oh well, what do I know. Next thing I know, I'll be hearing that I'm not only unqualified to run an NFL offense, I'm also unqualified to read a news story.

SR.

I was simply stating my own opinion. I think with Arians, we could be in teh SB again next year. The question that is being asked, is, "Is Arians offense able to cover over mistakes of the defense and special teams".

My personal answer is, "Yes, his scheming is, but I am starting to have serious doubts about his actualy game management on offense."

Does that make sense?

Steelers17
12-15-2009, 05:03 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.

so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:

I see where you are going here!

tony hipchest
12-15-2009, 05:06 PM
SR.

I was simply stating my own opinion. I think with Arians, we could be in teh SB again next year. The question that is being asked, is, "Is Arians offense able to cover over mistakes of the defense and special teams".

My personal answer is, "Yes, his scheming is, but I am starting to have serious doubts about his actualy game management on offense."

Does that make sense?i saw one play in the browns game where the camera was actually focused on the wr (santonio) and he ran a fairly exotic and pretty innovative route that was definitely gonna shake the defending db. the only problem was it took almost 4 seconds for him to finally come out of his break and by that time it was already too late.

sometimes a simple slant route with a 9 route, miller in the middle, and a rb in the flat is much more effective.

we were playing the browns, yet the steelers were trying to outsmart retards.
"checkers, not chess".

Preacher
12-15-2009, 05:10 PM
i saw one play in the browns game where the camera was actually focused on the wr (santonio) and he ran a fairly exotic and pretty innovative route that was definitely gonna shake the defending db. the only problem was it took almost 4 seconds for him to finally come out of his break and by that time it was already too late.

sometimes a simple slant route with a 9 route, miller in the middle, and a rb in the flat is much more effective.

we were playing the browns, yet the steelers were trying to outsmart retards.
"checkers, not chess".

Whick speaks to my statement on offensive game management.

steelreserve
12-15-2009, 05:16 PM
SR.

I was simply stating my own opinion. I think with Arians, we could be in teh SB again next year. The question that is being asked, is, "Is Arians offense able to cover over mistakes of the defense and special teams".

My personal answer is, "Yes, his scheming is, but I am starting to have serious doubts about his actualy game management on offense."

Does that make sense?

Well, yeah. That makes perfect sense. I agree with you about that 100%.

I was just trying to point out at the same time that the original point of the thread -- "this article proves Arians is OK" -- was nonsense. Two separate issues, I guess.

tony hipchest
12-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Hines Ward said the Steelers' season was over if they lost to the Raiders — and not only did they lose, they followed it by losing in Cleveland.

"No, man, I don't pay attention to Hines. I didn't think like that after we lost the Oakland game," Farrior said. "I really felt like we still had a chance, the way it's been going around the league you never know what's going to happen. But we definitely dealt ourselves into something (in Cleveland) we probably can't get out of."

and here he is suggesting that he dont give a shit what hines has to say and suggesting that maybe he should STFU and refrian from throwing in the towel so soon and giving the impression he was throwing a team leader under the bus. if hines views himself a leader like james does, maybe hines should be setting a positive attitude for the younger players as opposed to stoking the wildfires of negativity that are seemingly spreading through the locker room.

this team had enough distractions from being sb champions, to rooney leaving, to ben banging skanks... er allegedly.

Whick speaks to my statement on offensive game management.

exactly. i was backing up your statement with a specific example.

steelerchad
12-15-2009, 09:30 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.



so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:



You forgot the biggest issue with 70% of our plays being passing plays. Ice cold temps which would attribute to drops and tough passing conditions with grip and a 25-35mph swirling wind.
Normally I'd have to say it's not about playcalling, but the very first drive pissed me off immediately. Not just that it was a passing play, but a shotgun on 3rd and 1. Then on the next 3rd and short, not only a shotgun but let's empty the backfield too. A little play action could have gone a long way with a slippery field.

revefsreleets
12-16-2009, 10:12 AM
Well, yeah. That makes perfect sense. I agree with you about that 100%.

I was just trying to point out at the same time that the original point of the thread -- "this article proves Arians is OK" -- was nonsense. Two separate issues, I guess.

LOL at you and others whose hate for me has blinded them to the point where they just dismiss what I say out of hand, and, even if it makes PERFECT sense, well, they just mischaracterize or pervert it so that it no longer does.

I never suggested that BA was the greatest OC who ever lived. I'm merely pointing out the fact that on a team filled with myriad problems, it's lazy to point the finger at one or two coaches and lump an inordinate amount of blame on them.

It IS easy though, to scapegoat, which is why so many people do it. Now I'm being scapegoated for not losing my head and taking the easy way out...I find this all rather amusing. I appreciate that my "Hater Fan Club" keeps growing!:rofl:

Reeling this thread back in, I'd suggest for all the braintrust members to look at the play-by-play breakdown of the game. We WERE actually fairly balanced until the last drive, which I believe we threw nine passes in...there's also the inconvenient truth that had we just loaded up and ran the ball, and THAT failed, we'd all be hearing just the OPPOSITE, how we didn't pass enough to win.

I also would like to point out that there are rumors that Ben was ignoring called plays. And there is STILL the FACT that Ben has the luxury of calling audibles at the line. But don't let those little facts get in the way of a good ole fashioned lynching!

steelreserve
12-16-2009, 11:10 AM
Well, maybe if you didn't go around insulting people's intelligence all the time, they would react differently. You're kind of known for that.

I never suggested that BA was the greatest OC who ever lived. I'm merely pointing out the fact that on a team filled with myriad problems, it's lazy to point the finger at one or two coaches and lump an inordinate amount of blame on them.

If that was your point, then yes, you're right. The original post sounded more like "Here are several competing theories about the team's problems, so obviously another completely different theory that's not mentioned in the story is wrong."

I really don't think Arians NEEDS to be fired either, and I don't think he's responsible for ALL our problems. But I don't think he brings anything special to the table either, and he's pretty likely to be the fall guy for this season whether it's justified or not.

It IS easy though, to scapegoat, which is why so many people do it. Now I'm being scapegoated for not losing my head and taking the easy way out...I find this all rather amusing. I appreciate that my "Hater Fan Club" keeps growing!:rofl:

It's really not about you personally. More like the fact that this whole group of people who are upset that there's "too much negativity" on the message board ... are the same people who are throwing an absolute shitfit themselves, going around calling everyone idiots and spoiled fair-weather fans and such. Seriously? Come on.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=2&pp=10&page=111

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Steeldude
12-16-2009, 12:26 PM
is revs a relative of arians? it's about as bad as lakelander with redman.

steelreserve
12-16-2009, 12:36 PM
is revs a relative of arians? it's about as bad as lakelander with redman.

No, it strikes me more as the standard superiority complex on this message board: One part "Deferring to the coaches' judgment makes me a smarter football fan than you," one part "Criticizing the team makes you an ungrateful fan, and therefore worse than me."

It's almost amusing in a way ... there's a whole group of people who think of themselves as "elite fans," yet they hardly even talk about football anymore; they mostly seem to just complain about how everyone else is too negative. At least revs still tries to discuss actual things related to the team, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.

steelerdave1969
12-16-2009, 12:43 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.



so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:

Nice points Tony. The Browns didnt play badly at all like a 1 win team, but the Steelers are still supposed to win these games

revefsreleets
12-16-2009, 01:40 PM
No, it strikes me more as the standard superiority complex on this message board: One part "Deferring to the coaches' judgment makes me a smarter football fan than you," one part "Criticizing the team makes you an ungrateful fan, and therefore worse than me."

It's almost amusing in a way ... there's a whole group of people who think of themselves as "elite fans," yet they hardly even talk about football anymore; they mostly seem to just complain about how everyone else is too negative. At least revs still tries to discuss actual things related to the team, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.

But how do I differ from you in that regard? My comments about the ignorance of fans are general ones, and valid. You, and others, drape yourself in the almost every time and claim they are directed straight at you...and retalitae by directing attacks right at......ME.

That's fine. I don't mind and I never take anything anyone on this board says personally anymore anyway, although sometimes my patience does run out with a few of the denser people, or the one's who let their dislike for me taint their logic and thinking.

I'm simply (and continually) relying on the FACT that football is a very complex game, and attempts to over-simplify it are fruitless...if you fit that mold, that's really not my cross to bear.

steelreserve
12-16-2009, 02:41 PM
But how do I differ from you in that regard? My comments about the ignorance of fans are general ones, and valid. You, and others, drape yourself in the almost every time and claim they are directed straight at you...and retalitae by directing attacks right at......ME.

That's fine. I don't mind and I never take anything anyone on this board says personally anymore anyway, although sometimes my patience does run out with a few of the denser people, or the one's who let their dislike for me taint their logic and thinking.

I'm simply (and continually) relying on the FACT that football is a very complex game, and attempts to over-simplify it are fruitless...if you fit that mold, that's really not my cross to bear.

I don't think the ingorance comments are directed straight at me. What bothers me is that there are now 10 or 20 people who spend most of their time complaining about other fans' negativity or intelligence level, and the whole message board gets junked up with that, instead of being about football.

Like I said in the last post, you, personally, tend to be better than most of them about keeping some kind of focus on discussing the team or the games. I don't even disagree with most of your arguments about the game itself; you tend to have a good point more often than not. But as far as the overall attitude of that whole group, it's a pretty tiresome buzzkill that, IMO, has really started getting in the way of people enjoying themselves. Which is really the point of being here in the first place, no?

solardave
12-16-2009, 02:45 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.



so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:

When you come out and run for 10-11 yards the first couple of runs, everyone knows it's time to try something else because YOU NOW KNOW YOU CAN RUN THE BALL.
Where's the fun in that?

:screwy:

xfl2001fan
12-16-2009, 02:51 PM
6 points vs cleveland.

42 passes
19 rushes

= final straw.



so what are you saying james? we definitely got the atheletes to do it, but there is doubt because of poor coaching? :tap:

Or maybe it's that the Athletes who Executed last season aren't Executing this season. :tap:

tony hipchest
12-16-2009, 08:52 PM
Or maybe it's that the Athletes who Executed last season aren't Executing this season. :tap:thats cute. i wonder what those same athletes did last year when playing the shitty assed browns in cleveland during horrible weather?


20 pass
30 rush
2 sacks allowed

steelers win 10-6

looks like they can execute a gameplan (that isnt pulled out of ones ass) just fine. :tap:

steelerchad
12-16-2009, 09:00 PM
thats cute. i wonder what those same athletes did last year when playing the shitty assed browns in cleveland during horrible weather?


20 pass
30 rush
2 sacks allowed

steelers win 10-6

looks like they can execute a gameplan (that isnt pulled out of ones ass) just fine. :tap:

Yeah. And don't forget, our running game was a joke last year compared to this year. Mendenhall and the line have given us a pretty good running attack this year on a per carry basis. Clearly in hindsight, with the weather situations, we should have established our running game against the Browns and imposed our will on a lesser foe. We allowed them to jump out on us, gain confidence, and we never were able to come back. Sad it was.

tony hipchest
12-16-2009, 09:22 PM
When you come out and run for 10-11 yards the first couple of runs, everyone knows it's time to try something else because YOU NOW KNOW YOU CAN RUN THE BALL.
Where's the fun in that?

:screwy:

screwy indeed.

mendenahall has about 1000 yds in 10 games (he only had 7 carries in the first 3- two of which were losses). he was averaging 5 yards a carry, and had completely gashed the staunch broncos and vikings defense and recently put up almost 100 against the ravens.

he has 4 carries of 5, 4, 4, 3 yds in the 1st 6 snaps of the first 2 drives (averaging 4 yds/carry). both drives end in sacks for loss. those were 25% of mendenhalls carries, as he only had 12 for the remainder of the game. :doh:

what is priceless was tomlins excuse (obviously a lame attempts of covering his and arians ass) in the press conference.

appearantly they were trying to "save" the running plays for later in the game when they would be protecting the lead and grinding down the clock. since they were saving run plays for later they thought it was a good time to start passing. :screwy:

lol. how bout doing the smart thing and actually getting a lead first.

i think i get what farrior is saying though because i am starting to doubt if they can win a game too, if these shenanigans are allowed to continue.

memo to xflBROWNfan- its easier to execute if you are actually handed the ball.

Yeah. And don't forget, our running game was a joke last year compared to this year. Mendenhall and the line have given us a pretty good running attack this year on a per carry basis. Clearly in hindsight, with the weather situations, we should have established our running game against the Browns and imposed our will on a lesser foe. We allowed them to jump out on us, gain confidence, and we never were able to come back. Sad it was.thats not even hindsight, bro.

thats pretty conventional, fundamental, common, logical foresight and wise, winning football 101.

Steeler
12-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Bettis on the Steelers:

"When you lose your spirit, then everything is pretty much gone," Bettis said. "And that's what I saw when they hit the field against the Cleveland Browns."

"When you don't have the enthusiasm to get up for a game in which you have to win, then it tells me that the leadership isn't there,"

madtowndrunkard
12-16-2009, 10:07 PM
Bettis on the Steelers:

"When you lose your spirit, then everything is pretty much gone," Bettis said. "And that's what I saw when they hit the field against the Cleveland Browns."

"When you don't have the enthusiasm to get up for a game in which you have to win, then it tells me that the leadership isn't there,"\

What does Bettis know? Its not like he knows the team or anything. :doh:


Put your self in one of the players shoes. Pretend your boss is a total hack and doesn't have a clue on how to do his job. The company you work for is failing and losing money. Now keep in mind that you know the boss in question will not be going any were any time soon. Then some guy from the Wall Street Journal interviews you and asks what the heck is wrong with your company......what do you say? Do you say..."You know what our Boss sucks! He has no control over the staff! He can't lead at all. No one likes him.....Its the boss, he just doesn't' have enough experience or brains to handle the job? Is that what you say?

Most likely you say.....well its everyone. We all need to step up and get it done. We are in this together. We need to fix the issues and everything will be fine. We did great once, we can do it again. I've made some mistakes my self. bla bla bla.

That's what you say. Not too often do you hear any player throwing his coaches under the bus. I don't care if he plays for the Raiders, Browns, or an organization as highly respected as the steelers.

It would only be natural for many of these players to compare Tomlins staff to Bill Cowher and how he ran things. To me its what the players are not saying. I have yet to hear one player say....."You know what it's NOT the coaches" "Bruce is calling a great game.....Mike is getting us all prepared.....we the players just are not getting it done" .......I have not heard that quote yet. Call me crazy but if I had my coaches back, fully supported the coaching staff.....and I didn't want them getting fired....that's exactly what I'd be saying.

In public speaking it's not what they say....it's what they don't say.

X-Terminator
12-17-2009, 02:28 AM
If that was your point, then yes, you're right. The original post sounded more like "Here are several competing theories about the team's problems, so obviously another completely different theory that's not mentioned in the story is wrong."

I really don't think Arians NEEDS to be fired either, and I don't think he's responsible for ALL our problems. But I don't think he brings anything special to the table either, and he's pretty likely to be the fall guy for this season whether it's justified or not.

Well, unfortunately we have people who think Arians IS the root of all the problems with the team, which has been the whole reason behind most of his defense, but you are correct here. I think if you asked any of the so-called "elite fans" (whatever the hell that means) what they really think about Arians, you might be surprised. I have never been a huge fan of the man and have repeatedly complained about his situational playcalling, particularly in the red zone, the lack of balance in the offense and being married to the empty set that does nothing but get Ben killed in the backfield. If they fire him after the season, that's fine, but if they decide to keep him, I'm not going to get on here and have a fit over it. Instead, I'll support the decision and stand by the FO and Coach Tomlin.

It's really not about you personally. More like the fact that this whole group of people who are upset that there's "too much negativity" on the message board ... are the same people who are throwing an absolute shitfit themselves, going around calling everyone idiots and spoiled fair-weather fans and such. Seriously? Come on.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=2&pp=10&page=111

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Ah yes, but the thing is, we'll say it right here in the open board as well. Besides, the "negative neds" have the power to change how they are perceived and viewed, if they are willing to do so. Don't blame us for calling them out on it if they choose not to.

MasterOfPuppets
12-17-2009, 02:52 AM
. I think if you asked any of the so-called "elite fans" (whatever the hell that means) .
in order to reach "elite fan" status, you most own at least 2 terrible towels,1 fathead and a subscription to steelcity insider......:popcorn:

fansince'76
12-17-2009, 10:53 AM
It's almost amusing in a way ... there's a whole group of people who think of themselves as "elite fans," yet they hardly even talk about football anymore; they mostly seem to just complain about how everyone else is too negative. At least revs still tries to discuss actual things related to the team, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.

Well, as an apparent member of the group you have derided as "Elite Fans," let me take a stab at summing up the insightful and thoughtful discourse, i.e. "football talk" which has taken place here recently (and yes, all misspellings are intentional):

"Fiar Tawmlin! He sucks and was just a token hire because of the Rooney Rule! Cowher won that Sooper Bowl last year anyways!"

"Fiar Brooce Ariens! He sucks! Let's get Shanahan (or Gruden, or any other HEAD coaching candidate who will command anywhere from $7-$10 million a season when they do accept another HEAD coaching position with a NFL team) to take Ariens place!"

"Fiar Ligashefsky! He sucks!"

"Clark badmouthed the fans! He sucks! Cut his ass!"

And of course, the ever-popular "Our running game sucks! We need a big back!"

Good enough?

X-Terminator
12-17-2009, 11:02 AM
You forgot "Cut Reed! He can't make a 53-yard FG and can't tackle!! He SUCKKKKKKKSSSSS!!!!

steelreserve
12-17-2009, 11:31 AM
Well, as an apparent member of the group you have derided as "Elite Fans," let me take a stab at summing up the insightful and thoughtful discourse, i.e. "football talk" which has taken place here recently (and yes, all misspellings are intentional):

"Fiar Tawmlin! He sucks and was just a token hire because of the Rooney Rule! Cowher won that Sooper Bowl last year anyways!"

"Fiar Brooce Ariens! He sucks! Let's get Shanahan (or Gruden, or any other HEAD coaching candidate who will command anywhere from $7-$10 million a season when they do accept another HEAD coaching position with a NFL team) to take Ariens place!"

"Fiar Ligashefsky! He sucks!"

"Clark badmouthed the fans! He sucks! Cut his ass!"

And of course, the ever-popular "Our running game sucks! We need a big back!"

Good enough?


Basically, what I'm saying is that stupid as some of those comments are (and yes, I see it too), actively fighting it TO THIS EXTENT does more harm than good.

I'm sorry, but it's pretty dumb that it is no longer possible to have a normal discussion about Arians, the offensive line, or about a dozen other subjects, because inevitably some teenager will come in and say something dumb, and then the thread ends with 20 people calling him an idiot and someone posting a picture of a cat with "The Sky is Falling" at the bottom. Great, guys -- THAT obviously solves the problem, since it keeps happening anyway week after week.

Believe me, I'm not saying that the people you're talking about are saying anything "insightful." More like when so much of the board is cluttered up with venting back at them, and when so many topics are basically off-limits, it's not fair to the other people who actually are here to discuss.

What I don't get is why this is such a big deal to some people that they feel they HAVE to react the way they do. Someone says something like the comments you referred to ... and? I can tell he's an idiot. You can tell he's an idiot. People who are knowledgeable about the game can tell he's an idiot. It doesn't need to be explained to anyone who's worthwhile -- and the people who don't know better are probably never going to know better.

But instead, you guys spend so much energy railing against the idiots that it brings things down to their level, which now means you really ARE letting the idiots rule the thread. And doubling the "negativity" in the process. It's not like every dumb comment that's posted counts toward being negative and cluttering up the board, and everything yelled back at them goes into a vacuum. To someone TRYING to stay objective, it all looks like garbage. And it looks like you're just playing right into the idiots' hands.

Really, the "problem" is only as serious as you let it be, and since this strategy obviously isn't doing anything to fix it -- actually, more like throwing gasoline on the fire, if you ask me -- maybe it's time to rethink just why the hell those kind of comments even deserve any attention at all.

xfl2001fan
12-17-2009, 11:42 AM
thats cute. i wonder what those same athletes did last year when playing the shitty assed browns in cleveland during horrible weather?


20 pass
30 rush
2 sacks allowed

steelers win 10-6

looks like they can execute a gameplan (that isnt pulled out of ones ass) just fine. :tap:

Still need to execute the plays called. If it's an overload blitz, someone is open somewhere (if the players are executing properly). If it's not, then the line needs to block. DC Ryan called plays that the Browns better executed than the Steelers O could.

fansince'76
12-17-2009, 12:09 PM
Basically, what I'm saying is that stupid as some of those comments are (and yes, I see it too), actively fighting it TO THIS EXTENT does more harm than good.

How am I fighting it? I've posted very little in the last week and I wrote two or three comments in a social group board that you alluded to with your "Elite Fans" comment. I'm to the point where it's just not worth arguing about anymore so I don't.

steelreserve
12-17-2009, 12:32 PM
How am I fighting it? I've posted very little in the last week and I wrote two or three comments in a social group board that you alluded to with your "Elite Fans" comment. I'm to the point where it's just not worth arguing about anymore so I don't.

That's the gist of what I'm saying.

And yeah, I know you've not been around much to do that recently. There's just still a large contingent that does, which is who I'm really addressing. The sooner people can get the hell over it, the better. Some meathead coming in and being negative is not the end of the world.

revefsreleets
12-17-2009, 12:38 PM
My problem isn't with the really moronic posters (like mmalone). My problem is with the posters who are convinced they know exactly what's going on, yet they fail to demonstrate even a rudimentary knowledge of how complex and involved the topic of discussion actually is.

Just, please, Please, PLEASE at least have an INFORMED opinion if you're going to have an opinion. Back up your opinion with some real analysis, bring a fact or two to the table, some stats, some insight, SOMETHING to ADD to the conversation. Anyone can read garbage about football from people who don't know anything about it...the internet is LITTERED with sites like that. It just seems to me that the collective football IQ of this board has dropped significantly over the years for one reason or another...

steelreserve
12-17-2009, 01:08 PM
My problem isn't with the really moronic posters (like mmalone). My problem is with the posters who are convinced they know exactly what's going on, yet they fail to demonstrate even a rudimentary knowledge of how complex and involved the topic of discussion actually is.

Just, please, Please, PLEASE at least have an INFORMED opinion if you're going to have an opinion. Back up your opinion with some real analysis, bring a fact or two to the table, some stats, some insight, SOMETHING to ADD to the conversation. Anyone can read garbage about football from people who don't know anything about it...the internet is LITTERED with sites like that. It just seems to me that the collective football IQ of this board has dropped significantly over the years for one reason or another...

Well, the site has been growing in popularity, right? That usually brings an influx of mediocrity along with it. The broader the appeal, the more you're going to start attracting people who are only casually into the subject matter. Just the law of averages.

Yeah, it's annoying, but this isn't the first message board where I've seen that factor at work. The one pattern I've seen is that when the regular users get angry about it and "fight back," it doesn't solve the problem; it just makes the board seem catty and full of cliques.

At any rate, I don't think things are so bad that it's worth pulling my hair out over. You can still have a decent discussion if you skip past the stupid people, which seems to be the sticking point. And some of the "elite" people are probably right -- a mediocre season probably will weed out a lot of the mediocre people, because they didn't have as much enthusiasm to begin with.

xbroughneck
12-17-2009, 02:04 PM
Just, please, Please, PLEASE at least have an INFORMED opinion if you're going to have an opinion. Back up your opinion with some real analysis, bring a fact or two to the table, some stats, some insight, SOMETHING to ADD to the conversation. Anyone can read garbage about football from people who don't know anything about it...the internet is LITTERED with sites like that. It just seems to me that the collective football IQ of this board has dropped significantly over the years for one reason or another...

I've been watching Steeler football for 30 years.

I watch college AND pro football every weekend. (during the season) When I played flag for 2 years in jr. high, and I played a year of JV football. I would have played more, but...well, my grades started to suck and I was only good enough to make the JV team.

I haven't played collegiate football, pro football...so would you group me in with those who don't know anything about football?

I don't like the identity Bruce Arians' has given the Steelers offense.

I have not liked it for 3 years.

This franchise made it to two AFC Championship games with Kordell Stewart as the fricken QB. I have no doubt they could get back to power ball with Ben as the QB and be just as successful as they've been running Arians offense. Sure, switch it up and go no huddle a lot too. That's diversity. That's changing it up. That'll keep the defenses guessing. But plan to run the ball with conviction. Plan to pound the ball and accept a 2 yard gain, followed by a 5 yard gain...then have faith in running the ball a 3rd time to get that last 3 yards...or have that playaction from the I formation on that down....

Football is entertainment. Unless Ben's in the no huddle the Steeler offense generally does not entertain me. It hasn't for 3 years.

THAT is why I want Arians gone. And more than one ESPN commentator has spoken about how the Steelers have lost their identity (one in which the Cinncinatti Bengals have tried to take this year), so it's not just me saying something isn't right with the Steelers offense.

zulater
12-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Here's my two cents worth. I don't have to have a Masters in literature to know the difference between Tolstoy and Jackie Collins. I needn't have directed an Oscar winning movie to know that Deuce Bigelow isn't going to be considered among the classics. I don't need to know how to read sheet music in order to distinguish that Rhapsody in Blue is a better song than The Safety dance. And I don't have to know how to put together an NFL game plan to know that you don't call passes at a 2-1 ratio over runs when you have reported 40 mph cross winds and you're lined up against the defense ranked 31st in the league against the run. I also know that you're making the opposing defense's job a helluva lot easiar and become a lot more predictable when you go empty back set on first and goal from the 9 ( against K.C) or on 3rd and short. . And that you have essentially eliminated the possibility of play action pass by doing so, this with you're quarterback leading the league in that category going into our most recent game. .

That's what I do know Charlie Brown. :hatsoff:

xfl2001fan
12-17-2009, 03:36 PM
THAT is why I want Arians gone. And more than one ESPN commentator has spoken about how the Steelers have lost their identity (one in which the Cinncinatti Bengals have tried to take this year), so it's not just me saying something isn't right with the Steelers offense.

They havne't lost their identity...they have changed it. There's a difference.

They're 16th in the league in Rushing yards per play at 4.2. They're 9th in the league at 6.9 yards per pass play.

For the season, they've attempted 429 passes to 350 rushes. They've gained 81 rushing 1st downs to 168 passing first downs. When you are gaining first downs at a 2:1 ratio (pass to run) but aren't anywhere near that ratio in pass/run ratio for plays called, it says something.

Could they go back to a DK led offense and be successful? Possibly. But it's speculation. Nothing more. Bruce Arians seems to think that the pass will be more successful for you...and the stats seem to back him up.

xbroughneck
12-17-2009, 03:45 PM
Bruce Arians seems to think that the pass will be more successful for you...and the stats seem to back him up.

You're right. Stats are pretty good.

I'm not saying he's the reason the Steelers are in the spot they are in. I'd blame the defensive secondary more than I'd blame Arians. Prior to the Cleveland game I thought he was having a pretty good year.

I still don't like him as the offensive coordinator. I don't like the Steelers new identity.

I LOVE that they can win with that identity, but I'd still prefer to see something else. That's just me though. I'd don't want the Steelers lower than 10th in ANY quantifiable rushing category. IMHO, the Steelers should be about running the football, play action..and going no huddle to switch it up.

revefsreleets
12-18-2009, 11:54 AM
They havne't lost their identity...they have changed it. There's a difference.

They're 16th in the league in Rushing yards per play at 4.2. They're 9th in the league at 6.9 yards per pass play.

For the season, they've attempted 429 passes to 350 rushes. They've gained 81 rushing 1st downs to 168 passing first downs. When you are gaining first downs at a 2:1 ratio (pass to run) but aren't anywhere near that ratio in pass/run ratio for plays called, it says something.

Could they go back to a DK led offense and be successful? Possibly. But it's speculation. Nothing more. Bruce Arians seems to think that the pass will be more successful for you...and the stats seem to back him up.

And a Browns fan shall lead them...

Anyway, the Steelers brought in a guy who likes to pass, they kept a guy who likes to pass, they paid 100 mil for a QB, (and I'm thinking it's, you know, so he could pass, not hand the ball off), they loaded up on skill players so they could feature the pass, now they pass the ball a lot and people hate it.

But people don't necessarily like to HEAR that, so...........................blame me for pointing it out?

Okey dokey...

markymarc
12-19-2009, 09:51 PM
Bruce Arians seems to think that the pass will be more successful for you...and the stats seem to back him up.

Yes we do have a top ten offense in the NFL. That is great! But when you have a top ten offense you should also be in the top ten for scoring offense as well. Well guess what............the Steelers are currently ranked #16 in that category. So for all of those passing and rushing yards they are putting up, they are middle of the pack when it comes to putting points on the board. Sorry but the scoring stat says more to me about a team than the passing and rushing numbers they can put up.