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View Full Version : Howard Dean screams: “Kill The Senate Bill”


Fire Haley
12-15-2009, 04:10 PM
Uh-oh, more Obamacare trouble...health care "reform" DOOMED


http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/howard-dean-kill-the-senate-bill/

In a blow to the bill grinding through the Senate, Howard Dean bluntly called for the bill to be killed in a pre-recorded interview set to air later this afternoon, denouncing it as “the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate,” the reporter who conducted the interview tells me.

Dean said the removal of the Medicare buy-in made the bill not worth supporting, and urged Dem leaders to start over with the process of reconciliation in the interview, which is set to air at 5:50 PM today on Vermont Public Radio, political reporter Bob Kinzel confirms to me.

The gauntlet from Dean — whose voice on health care is well respsected among liberals — will energize those on the left who are mobilizing against the bill, and make it tougher for liberals to embrace the emerging proposal. In an excerpt Kinzel gave me, Dean says:

“This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill.”

Kinzel added that Dean essentially said that if Democratic leaders cave into Joe Lieberman right now they’ll be left with a bill that’s not worth supporting.

Dean had previously endorsed the Medicare buy-in compromise without a public option, saying that the key question should be whether the bill contains enough “real reform” to be worthy of progressives’ support. Dean has apparently concluded that the “real reform” has been removed at Lieberman’s behest — which won’t make it easier for liberals to swallow the emerging compromise.

revefsreleets
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
Actually, NPR was reporting this morning that they are VERY close to passing this bill.

There is a Christmas deadline to meet...that seems to be all that matters.

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/79386147.html

Democratic surgery by moonlight

By Michael Gerson
Washington Post Writers Group

Published on Wednesday, Dec 16, 2009

WASHINGTON: It is symbolic of the Senate's health-care bill that the section titled ''No lifetime or annual limits'' would allow insurance companies to impose annual dollar limits on medical care — meaning that patients in need of expensive cancer treatment, for example, could still be bankrupted.

Democratic health-reform legislation promises everything to everyone — while imposing a series of hidden burdens to make a massive new entitlement affordable, at least on paper. So its authors are in a game of beat the clock — pass the legislation before those burdens are fully disclosed to the public.

The case of annual dollar limits — now being renegotiated after they were finally noticed — is instructive. In the ''reformed'' insurance system, every plan would be a high-end plan, requiring insurance companies to cover people who are already sick and limiting the ability to charge higher premiums for those at higher risk. To avoid going out of business or dramatically increasing insurance premiums across the board, insurance companies want the ability to cap yearly benefits. The Senate bill included this limit, because higher insurance premiums would require greater government subsidies to help people afford them. Cutting off cancer patients helps Congress meet its budget target.

The entire Democratic health-reform effort is now foundering, as its deep bow enters the shallow channel of fiscal reality. And that splash you hear is various groups thrown from the ship to lighten the load. Instead of beginning with affordable, realistic objectives, President Obama and the Democratic Congress set the goal of guaranteed, comprehensive coverage for everyone. This requires a lot more money in the system, which must come from somewhere. Actually, from someone.

One source is the young and healthy who currently take the risk of living without insurance. They would be legally mandated to pay premiums each month. According to the polls, it doesn't bother young people much that they would be forced to subsidize the insurance costs of middle-aged Americans with pre-existing health conditions. We are grateful for young people's indifference.

Another target is older people on Medicare. Health reform that doesn't ''add a dime to the deficit'' assumes large reductions in government payments to doctors and other health-care providers. Last week, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued a devastating report, saying these cuts ''may be unrealistic'' because they would threaten the fiscal stability of the Medicare system. One in five hospitals, nursing homes and home health providers could be pushed into the red. Many would stop participating in Medicare, restricting access for seniors.

It is an extraordinary political development that Democrats are willing to put Medicare — a program that already faces serious fiscal challenges — at further risk to pay for a new health entitlement. Or maybe they know the risk is minimal, because Congress will eventually abandon this pretense, restore the Medicare cuts and fund health reform with deficit spending.

Whatever the outcome, promises of greater efficiency in delivering health care seem empty. ''In 10 years' time,'' says James Capretta of the conservative Ethics and Public Policy Center, ''even if all of these ideas are fully implemented, the Medicare program would look and operate largely as it does today, which is to say as a fee-for-service insurance model that rewards volume and fragmentation, not integration.''

The final source of funding is taxpayers. In an assault on the wrinkly, the Senate bill includes a 5 percent tax on cosmetic surgery. A larger revenue source is a tax on high-end ''Cadillac health plans.'' It is a problem, however, that many Cadillac plans are owned by people who build Chevys and Fords. Over the years, unions have often taken generous benefits packages in lieu of salary increases. If the Senate approach becomes law, that will have been a poor calculation.

How long before the young and the old, union workers and the millions in desperate need of Botox realize that the health-care free lunch is to be provided at their expense? This may already be happening, with some polls now showing opposition to reform more than 20 points higher than support.

But perhaps the largest reason for this decline is the impression that all these deceptive burdens, risky moves, budget tricks, tax increases and new bureaucracies have been thrown together to meet a political deadline, with little clear idea of how they would affect the health of the nation. Sometimes brain surgery is necessary, but this one is being conducted by moonlight with pruning sheers and chicken wire.
Gerson is a Washington Post Writers Group columnist. He can be e-mailed at mgerson@globalengage.org.

fansince'76
12-16-2009, 08:16 AM
One source is the young and healthy who currently take the risk of living without insurance. They would be legally mandated to pay premiums each month. According to the polls, it doesn't bother young people much that they would be forced to subsidize the insurance costs of middle-aged Americans with pre-existing health conditions. We are grateful for young people's indifference.

Wait until those "young people" actually have to start footing that bill instead of just talking about it and see how fast their tune changes.

Fire Haley
12-16-2009, 11:30 AM
Howard Dean: Health Care Bill 'Bigger Bailout for the Insurance Industry Than AIG'

By HUMA KHAN and JONATHAN KARL
WASHINGTON, Dec. 16, 2009


President Obama said he likes the Senate health care compromise and wants it passed by Christmas, but he faces a revolt from some liberals who say the health care bill has been gutted to appease insurance companies.


"This is a bigger bailout for the insurance industry than AIG," former Democratic National Committee chairman and medical doctor Howard Dean told "Good Morning America's" George Stephanopoulos today. "A very small number of people are going to get any insurance at all, until 2014, if the bill works.

"This is an insurance company's dream, this bill," Dean continued. "This is the Washington scramble, and I think it's ill-advised."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HealthCare/howard-dean-health-care-bill-bigger-bailout-insurance/story?id=9349392

xfl2001fan
12-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Wait until those "young people" actually have to start footing that bill instead of just talking about it and see how fast their tune changes.

That, my friend, is known as "Too Little, Too Late." You know...like how the seniors feel now that BHO is in office and talking about this universal health care thing.

Fire Haley
12-16-2009, 12:12 PM
Wait for the tax on insurance tax.

ABC/WashPo Poll: 53% see Senate bill increasing health care costs, while lowering quality of care

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/16/poll-health-care-reform-will-bring-higher-costs/

Vincent
12-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Wait for the tax on insurance tax.

ABC/WashPo Poll: 53% see Senate bill increasing health care costs, while lowering quality of care

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/16/poll-health-care-reform-will-bring-higher-costs/

News flash - Amazing clarity among voters revealed in new poll. Film at 11.

So this "healthcare" bull@#$% is about fixing the "crisis" of "47M uninsured" (that number has since been "reduced' to 30M) at the expense of the 270M insured while leaving 30M uninsured? Liberals can @#$% up a one car funeral.

The actual crisis is that we are stupid enough to let them do this to us.

revefsreleets
12-16-2009, 12:42 PM
This bill, as it stands now, will wreck Medicare and Medicade within 3 years of it's implementation. Then guess what? The taxpayers get to bail them out...to the tune of trillions.

The fact has always been that TRUE healthcare reform is going to cost trillions....instead of taking a common sense approach to this, and working in steps, what Obama and this Congress will end up doing is taking a historic moment (when the public really WAS willing to look at doing SOMETHING) and destroying the opportunity forever. They should have focused on one problem at a time...instead, like usual, Obama's agenda was TOO ambitious, he tried to fix everything at once, and now just about everyone will end up getting screwed by shoddy half-assed legislation.

It's actually sad...we had a chance to DO something about spiraling costs and the opportunity will be squandered...

Fire Haley
12-16-2009, 05:33 PM
Single-payer health care plan dies in Senate

WASHINGTON — The liberals' longtime dream of a government-run health care system for all died Wednesday in the Senate, but Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont vowed it will return when the realization dawns that private insurance companies "are no longer needed."

Sanders, an independent and socialist, said his approach is the only one "which eliminates the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste, administrative costs, bureaucracy and profiteering that is engendered by the private insurance companies." His remarks drew handshakes and even a hug or two from Democrats who had filed into the Senate to hear him.

Sanders acknowledged the proposal lacked the votes to pass, and he chose to withdraw it after Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., exercised his prerogative and required Senate clerks to begin reading the 767-page proposal aloud to a nearly empty chamber. After three hours, they were 139 pages into it.

The political theater came as the White House and Senate Democrats sought an agreement with Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., to become the 60th supporter of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul — the number needed to overcome a Republican filibuster.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6773970.html

SteelerEmpire
12-16-2009, 08:46 PM
All the hoopla is smoke and mirrors.... the bills gonna pass.... The Repubs say it will bankrupt the country, the Dems say it will prevent the country from going bankrupt. Unfortunately predictions of what will happen in the future once the bill is passed will be broken down to "he say-she say " by the Dems come election time. Once this bill is passed, the Dems will have "major " artillery come election time... simply based off the fact that they have reformed health care when so many have failed to do so in the past.

revefsreleets
12-17-2009, 08:00 AM
I heard a great point made the other day from an older dude I know. He said there were debates exactly like this concerning Medicare back in the 60's. We were ASSURED that the program would cost little, and would pay for itself.

Since 1966 the costs of Medicare have doubled every 4 years. The US government is now spending $440 billion a year on Medicare alone, which is a staggering 16% of GDP. Only defense and Social Security cost more.

This new Healthcare will almost certainly end up exactly the same way...

MACH1
12-17-2009, 09:08 AM
It will be worse! Trillions vs. billions.

Indo
12-17-2009, 09:55 AM
Sanders, an independent and socialist, said his approach is the only one "which eliminates the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste, administrative costs, bureaucracy...



This is actually a ludicrous statement made by someone who simply refuses to educate himself before opening his mouth---

This approach will end up costing hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars as administrative costs and bureaucracy stonewall the whole health care system.

Trust me. I deal with VA patients, Medicare patients, and Medicaid paients every day. It is a nightmare. One simple example: saw a lady the other day who may or may not have an intra-abdominal mass (tumor). It's difficult to tell just by feeling her abdomen because she's overweight (obese). I ordered a CT scan to see if there is, in fact, a tumor.
Of course Medicaid denied it (refuses to pay for the CT scan). This essentially means that I cannot order a CT scan unless the patient pays out-of-pocket. I called the Medicaid office to try to actually talk to a human about the situation and get the CT approved. Of course, the person answering the phone is just that---a phone answerer! One of those that can't spell DNA. This woman had no clue about a CT scan or an abdominal tumor. And, even if she did, she certainly had no authority to approve the CT. So I am now forced to write a letter to CMS (the administrative body that oversees Medicare and -caid). How much time have I wasted? How long do we think it will take to get a response? Will it be approval or denial for the CT (in which case the whole process starts again)? If she does have a tumor, how long will it be before we can actually begin treatment because we must first make the correct diagnosis? Will it metastasize to other organs (and become incurable) because of the delay? It goes on and on...

If this patient had a private insurance carrier (such as Blue Cross/Blue Shield) I could call the Medical Director of the company (private carriers ALWAYS have a Med. Director who is a physcian--someone that understands the situation---) and ask that person to review the medical chart. I can personally discuss the situation and why I feel it is necessary and appropriate to order a CT scan. They often approve the test while I am on the phone with them.

This is how it works now...but the douches (legislators) like this guy have no clue because you can damn well bet that a Senator or Congressperson NEVER has a test denied.


This inefficient system will, I promise you, get MUCH worse if this legislation passes

Godfather
12-17-2009, 10:47 AM
All the hoopla is smoke and mirrors.... the bills gonna pass.... The Repubs say it will bankrupt the country, the Dems say it will prevent the country from going bankrupt. Unfortunately predictions of what will happen in the future once the bill is passed will be broken down to "he say-she say " by the Dems come election time. Once this bill is passed, the Dems will have "major " artillery come election time... simply based off the fact that they have reformed health care when so many have failed to do so in the past.

If they pass this big, steaming turd of a bill, they will have yet again failed to reform health care and failed to achieve universal coverage (or even come close). And the American people will be furious and will punish them at the polls.

KeiselPower99
12-17-2009, 02:09 PM
All the hoopla is smoke and mirrors.... the bills gonna pass.... The Repubs say it will bankrupt the country, the Dems say it will prevent the country from going bankrupt. Unfortunately predictions of what will happen in the future once the bill is passed will be broken down to "he say-she say " by the Dems come election time. Once this bill is passed, the Dems will have "major " artillery come election time... simply based off the fact that they have reformed health care when so many have failed to do so in the past.

Ill go a step further then the Republicans. This bill will KILL this country. 35% want health care overhaul. You cant spend your way out of debt!!!!

Shellshock
12-17-2009, 08:54 PM
Fed. agents don't have the man power to cover all the corruption now that goes on with doctors, hospitals and nursing homes today. If this passes, then more agents will have to be hired, adding additional costs.

SteelerEmpire
12-19-2009, 09:20 AM
Looks like the Dems are gonna pass it by Christmas: LINK: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34488616/ns/health-health_care/

BlastFurnace
12-19-2009, 12:53 PM
I keep hearing from that joke of a President we have says that "The American People Want This"...and I have yet to meet anyone to wants this...and about 99% of the articles I read are against it as well.

I simply cannot believe that the American people were blind enough to vote for him.

Godfather
12-20-2009, 08:01 AM
I keep hearing from that joke of a President we have says that "The American People Want This"...and I have yet to meet anyone to wants this...and about 99% of the articles I read are against it as well.

I simply cannot believe that the American people were blind enough to vote for him.

Nobody likes it. The left hates it because it's a sop to Big Insurance. Everyone else hates it because it costs a fortune and contains no actual reform.

Fire Haley
12-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Peace on earth, good will toward insurance companies

Health bill poised for Christmas Eve passage

WASHINGTON — Outnumbered Republicans are pledging to delay passage of historic health care legislation as long as possible after jubilant Democrats locked in Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson as the 60th and decisive vote.


Nelson’s backing puts President Barack Obama’s signature issue firmly on a path for Christmas Eve passage. Democrats will need to show 60 votes on two additional occasions, with the next — and most critical — test vote set for about 1 a.m. Monday.


“This bill is a legislative train wreck of historic proportions,” the Republican leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said at a Saturday news conference. He pointed to cuts to Medicare that the Congressional Budget Office said totaled more than $470 billion over a decade, with reductions in planned payments to home health care agencies and hospices. He also said the bill includes “massive tax increases” at a time of double-digit unemployment.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6778974.html

GoSlash27
12-20-2009, 11:38 AM
This approach will end up costing hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars as administrative costs and bureaucracy stonewall the whole health care system.
Agreed. They had to use a cheap accounting technique in order to make it look like this thing even comes close to being budget neutral; by counting 10 years of revenue and applying it to 7 years of services.
And it's only gonna get worse; when was the last time we've seen an entitlement program come in anywhere close to the projected cost?

The worst part is that Obama was actually cynical enough to claim that the Federal government would go bankrupt if we *didn't* pass this bill. :doh:

GoSlash27
12-20-2009, 11:43 AM
A bigger question:
This bill doesn't create a public option. It doesn't lower the eligibility age for Social Security.

It doesn't actually do much of anything beyond distorting the heck out of the health insurance market with a lot of ill-advised mandates.

So why does it cost so much?? A hundred billion dollars a year (an *extremely* conservative estimate)?! Where's all that money going?

revefsreleets
12-20-2009, 03:16 PM
It's being pumped into the current horrible system....it's like asking "Where does matter go after it enters a black hole?".

It goes "There". That's the best possible answer...

The ONLY two things this legislation does, as far as I can see, is it allows people with pre-existing conditions insurance (and the insurance companies will recoup their losses....care to guess how?), and it provides some tax breaks to small business so that they will be able to provide some benefits to their employees.

That's it. Two positives. The lost of negatives is so long it's prohibitive to attempt to list them all again.

That's what we get.

Godfather
12-20-2009, 08:51 PM
It's a horrible bill. Absolutely horrible.

The D's know but they don't care. It's all about ego and not about helping the American people. They want to pretend they made a historic breakthrough even though as many as 24 million people will be left without insurance and there is nothing in the bill to curb insurer abuses of the claims process or to contain costs. And we're stuck with this trash for a very long time because the insurance lobby will never allow the individual mandate to be repealed, and no real competition to the insurance model will ever happen if it didn't with large D majorities.

GoSlash27
12-20-2009, 10:16 PM
And we're stuck with this trash for a very long time because the insurance lobby will never allow the individual mandate to be repealed, and no real competition to the insurance model will ever happen if it didn't with large D majorities.
They're gonna pass this abortion. I'm gonna drop my health insurance once my employer stops providing it. No sense in carrying it; they can't deny me for a pre-existing condition and it's cheaper to pay the tax penalty than it is to carry the insurance.

VegasStlrFan
12-20-2009, 10:36 PM
The biggest problem I have with congress right now is all I hear about is Health Care and Climate Change. Nothing about strategies to fix the economy other than borrow more money. The priorities are completely jacked up.

TroysBadDawg
12-21-2009, 06:13 AM
Since 1966 the costs of Medicare have doubled every 4 years. The US government is now spending $440 billion a year on Medicare alone, which is a staggering 16% of GDP. Only defense and Social Security cost more.

This new Healthcare will almost certainly end up exactly the same way...

Social Security is not supposed to the government a cent. We have all payed into it and the our dear congress keeps borrowing from the pot then forgiving themselves of ever paying back what they borrowed. Now our government wants to give illegals access to SS and they never payed into it. Now tell me how fair that is?

And where in the Copnstitution does it say that the congress can impose National health care on it people...NO WHERE!
It is against the wishes of the majority of the people and the liberals are ignoring it.