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MACH1
12-17-2009, 10:35 AM
by Nick Signorelli

Adam Schefter of ESPN reported today that there are changes coming to the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Special Team coach Bob Ligashesky will be released at the end of the season. The Steelers special teams have been anything BUT special this season, allowing huge kick off returns against the Browns, Vikings, Chiefs, and numerous times, the special teams have allowed players to get close on punts as well.

Bruce Arians is also in a good deal of trouble, according to Schefter. The Steelers will be either demoting or firing him at the end of the season.

Arians has become one of the most predictable coordinators in the NFL, failing more than he succeeds. Too many times the Steelers are unable to punch the ball into the end zone once they reach the red zone.

With all the weapons on offense, this Steelers team should be one of the most high scoring units in the history of the Steelers.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/307907-breaking-news-coaching-changes-coming-for-pittsburgh-steelers

Not sure if this has been posted. If it has close it down.

The_WARDen
12-17-2009, 11:01 AM
IF this is true, why say it? Why not just do it now?

What's the point of letting them continue as lame duck coaches?

WH
12-17-2009, 11:25 AM
IF this is true, why say it? Why not just do it now?

What's the point of letting them continue as lame duck coaches?

The only thing I can think of is either respect or contractual obligations. Besides, with 3 games left why bother going through all of the negotiating and grab ass. The SFO has alot of other important things going on right now.

MACH1
12-17-2009, 11:27 AM
Rumor has it (on sirius) that Ken Anderson will be promoted to OC.

If thats the case shit can Arians now and lets see what Kenny can do the next few weeks.

WH
12-17-2009, 11:52 AM
Rumor has it (on sirius) that Ken Anderson will be promoted to OC.

If thats the case shit can Arians now and lets see what Kenny can do the next few weeks.

Mistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake


GMSzdgz2ZLs

Go look at how successful the Bengals were on offense during his tenure there as OC.

Bluedust
12-17-2009, 11:57 AM
Rumor has it (on sirius) that Ken Anderson will be promoted to OC.

If thats the case shit can Arians now and lets see what Kenny can do the next few weeks.

I remember having nightmares last season when I thought they'd replace Therrien with Yeo, not again!

SteelGhost
12-17-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't know if it would be a good decision, he's 60 and has no other experience as OC than a short tenure with the bungles :noidea:, but I'll trust the FO as usual.

OneForTheToe
12-17-2009, 12:24 PM
I would be happy with ken as OC, if it so works out that way.

revefsreleets
12-17-2009, 12:24 PM
1st off, this was already a rumor once before...is this a NEW rumor, or the same one just gaining traction because it's making a second round?

I'm fine with Arians being replaced, if there is any veracity to this rumor. If that's the FO's decision, than good for them. I hope he lands on his feet, and I hope his replacement does a good job. BUT the countdown for the first threads bitching about the NEW OC is starting. By game 3 next year we'll be right back to where we are now...

zulater
12-17-2009, 01:01 PM
1st off, this was already a rumor once before...is this a NEW rumor, or the same one just gaining traction because it's making a second round?

I'm fine with Arians being replaced, if there is any veracity to this rumor. If that's the FO's decision, than good for them. I hope he lands on his feet, and I hope his replacement does a good job. BUT the countdown for the first threads bitching about the NEW OC is starting. By game 3 next year we'll be right back to where we are now...

For the most part Steelers fans were satisfied when Whisenhunt was OC or as memory serves me. I think the game plans he put together for the 2005 playoffs and the Super Bowl where he had to overcome a poor game by his qb were pretty special.

Also I think it's noteworthy that after the Super Bowl you had the OC of the losing team on the short list of many of the teams with a Head Coaching vancancy while his counterpart on the winning sideline didn't draw a whiff of interest.


So maybe it's not just us moronic fans who don't hold Bruce in high regard? :whistle:

solardave
12-17-2009, 01:01 PM
Rumor has it (on sirius) that Ken Anderson will be promoted to OC.

If thats the case shit can Arians now and lets see what Kenny can do the next few weeks.


If it's a contract thing let BA sit the bench next 3 games and give Anderson play calling duties!!! BA's getting paid for nothing anyway.

ricardisimo
12-17-2009, 01:08 PM
Look, I'm actually in agreement with an awful lot of what turns up on bleacherreport... that doesn't mean it isn't a badly run opinion blog; there's no actual journalism going on. Not one interview, nor phone call nor email was ever committed to investigating one single claim on their webpages.

I would like to +1 every request that has ever been posted here that people stop linking to bleacherreport in posts. I would prefer links to The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/browns_caught_trying_to), with significantly stronger journalistic principles.

scsteeler
12-17-2009, 01:09 PM
I am for sure that changes will come with Special Teams and secondary coaches. The OC position well until it happens that remains to be seen.

zulater
12-17-2009, 01:11 PM
I would be happy with ken as OC, if it so works out that way.


I'm ok if give him an interview, but personally I want to see them bring in some outside talent and go through an extenisive search before making a hire. With the offensive talent this team has at the skill positions this might be the most important move the Steelers make all offseason. Promoting from within only makes sense when things are going well imo. And besides I'm not sure Anderson is doing a great job as qb coach.

Steelerroy
12-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Adam Schefter is usually right about stuff.If he says it I believe it.I don't know why he gets so much more information but he does.On a side note, I think Mort doesn't like that ESPN brought him over.He scoops all the good info before Mort or Clayton can.To funny

WH
12-17-2009, 01:26 PM
And besides I'm not sure Anderson is doing a great job as qb coach. 2 years and his QB still doesn't know when to throw a ball away.

Nadroj 20
12-17-2009, 01:37 PM
2 years and his QB still doesn't know when to throw a ball away.

Thats just the way Ben plays, he thinks he can always make a play, sometimes it can hurt us yea but its just his style...i dont think its the QB coach.

xbroughneck
12-17-2009, 01:39 PM
1st off, this was already a rumor once before...is this a NEW rumor, or the same one just gaining traction because it's making a second round?

I'm fine with Arians being replaced, if there is any veracity to this rumor. If that's the FO's decision, than good for them. I hope he lands on his feet, and I hope his replacement does a good job. BUT the countdown for the first threads bitching about the NEW OC is starting. By game 3 next year we'll be right back to where we are now...

I personally hopes he lands on any AFC North squad. I'd like to see some other QB try to be as successful as Ben out of those offensive sets. Maybe make some other offense soft.

I don't want predictable, but I also don't want soft.

MACH1
12-17-2009, 03:21 PM
I personally hopes he lands on any AFC North squad. I'd like to see some other QB try to be as successful as Ben out of those offensive sets. Maybe make some other offense soft.

I don't want predictable, but I also don't want soft.

He'd look good in brown. Oh' wait...:doh:

stillers4me
12-17-2009, 05:10 PM
I'm betting the FO will do some interviewing before a final decision is made. Tomlin was a rather surprise hire and they may come up with another surprise before it's all said and done.

Psyychoward86
12-17-2009, 05:15 PM
If Ken gets promoted, i dont know what to expect. Just because a coach is good in one area, doesnt mean he's good at another. See----------> Dick Lebeau as the Bengals Head Coach

RoethlisBURGHer
12-17-2009, 05:35 PM
First off, bleacher report is a blog site, not a place to find journalists with insider info.

While Shefter said changes will be made to the Steelers coaching staff, I think that's the only thing he said. The Steelers aren't going to announce those changes before actually letting people go, they don't work that way. This guy is guessing who will be gone, and both are good guesses.

Burghfan58
12-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Listening to 1250 Steeler talk. Ken Laird the host was talking to Bettis and both seem to think unless the Steelers lose the last three games that Arians would probably be back. They did say that Tomlin will need to put his stamp on this offense of which he has very little input at this time.

HometownGal
12-17-2009, 07:46 PM
For the most part Steelers fans were satisfied when Whisenhunt was OC or as memory serves me. I think the game plans he put together for the 2005 playoffs and the Super Bowl where he had to overcome a poor game by his qb were pretty special.



They were? I clearly remember all of the B & M'ing around here in the Game Day threads whining about Whisenhunt not utilizing Ben's talents as a passer and runnning the ball too much. :banging:

Zu - surely you've been around long enough to realize that with Steelers fans, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I actually feel sorry for any coach who takes a position on this staff. One mistake and he becomes a black 'n gold pinata.

TheWarDen86
12-17-2009, 07:50 PM
They were? I clearly remember all of the B & M'ing around here in the Game Day threads whining about Whisenhunt not utilizing Ben's talents as a passer and runnning the ball too much. :banging:

Zu - surely you've been around long enough to realize that with Steelers fans, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I actually feel sorry for any coach who takes a position on this staff. One mistake and he becomes a black 'n gold pinata.


http://members.cox.net/themacallan/YouHitTheNailOnTheHead.JPG

gameface75
12-17-2009, 08:55 PM
2 years and his QB still doesn't know when to throw a ball away.

I am glad somebody else can see that our QB doesnt know when to just throw it away ,and try to make up for it on the next play .No need to be sacked so often .The O-line can only hold their block for so long without being called for holding.

cubanstogie
12-17-2009, 09:52 PM
I am glad somebody else can see that our QB doesnt know when to just throw it away ,and try to make up for it on the next play .No need to be sacked so often .The O-line can only hold their block for so long without being called for holding.

The older Ben gets the more he is going to have to get rid of it. I can already see him moving slower this year. Now generally I accept the bad due to him making big plays by keeping them alive but this year he has abandoned throwing it away like a veteran QB should. On another note, its pretty hard to keep sticking up for Arians, I don't know if I am starting to believe he sucks because he does, or because I read it over 1000 times on this board. But does anyone think a great OC would have made a difference in our record. Special teams and D has lost a few on their own, not to mention we cannot force a turnover to save our life.

GoSlash27
12-17-2009, 09:56 PM
"Predictable" is the kiss of death.
Game theory demands that every situation must be calculated from a selection of potentially profitable plays in a calculable proportion, but that the ultimate decision must be randomly selected in such a way that even the OC himself doesn't know the call until it is selected.
I made a post about that a couple months back and got ridiculed, but it's absolutely true.
http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/top/eco/game/game.html

tony hipchest
12-17-2009, 10:03 PM
ive never really felt sorry for any coach of the steelers because any coach will tell you they have good jobs and are privlqaged and any critisism comes with the territory for any nfl franchise.

...well except maybe for tim lewis, ligashesky, and ray sherman, cause they flat out sucked.

or maybe the players just didnt execute in those particular years.


i just dont know anymore! :willy:

madtowndrunkard
12-17-2009, 10:22 PM
1st off, this was already a rumor once before...is this a NEW rumor, or the same one just gaining traction because it's making a second round?

I'm fine with Arians being replaced, if there is any veracity to this rumor. If that's the FO's decision, than good for them. I hope he lands on his feet, and I hope his replacement does a good job. BUT the countdown for the first threads bitching about the NEW OC is starting. By game 3 next year we'll be right back to where we are now...


Changing your tune already huh....lol

I thought you would jump off a cliff if Arians were fired given how much you love the guy and his amazing coaching abilities that you think he possesses.

zulater
12-17-2009, 10:27 PM
They were? I clearly remember all of the B & M'ing around here in the Game Day threads whining about Whisenhunt not utilizing Ben's talents as a passer and runnning the ball too much. :banging:

Zu - surely you've been around long enough to realize that with Steelers fans, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I actually feel sorry for any coach who takes a position on this staff. One mistake and he becomes a black 'n gold pinata.

You really think Arains job performance equates to Whizenhunt? Well the rest of the league sure didn't think so as evidenced by Whiz interviewing for multiple HC vancancies before settling for the Card's job. I think he even turned down the Falcons job. Arains never has got a sniff as a potential NFL head coach nor will he. I doubt he'l ever see another coordinater job in fact.

I guess the guys doing the hiring must all be knucklehead Steelers fans like me then? :wink02:

HometownGal
12-18-2009, 08:39 AM
You really think Arains job performance equates to Whizenhunt? Well the rest of the league sure didn't think so as evidenced by Whiz interviewing for multiple HC vancancies before settling for the Card's job. I think he even turned down the Falcons job. Arains never has got a sniff as a potential NFL head coach nor will he. I doubt he'l ever see another coordinater job in fact.

I guess the guys doing the hiring must all be knucklehead Steelers fans like me then? :wink02:

No - I don't equate Whiz's job performance to Arians' at all. One was the OC of last season's Super Bowl winning team who hoisted that Lombardi (who, I might add, designed and called the game winning play which Ben and Santo executed to perfection) and the other was the HC of the team the Steelers beat who was on the shit end of the stick. :flap::wink02: OK, OK - Whiz was the OC when the Steelers won XV (and designed and called the wide receiver reverse pass which was executed beautifully and sealed the deal on that game), but hopefully you get my drift. :chuckle:

Personally, I don't think Arians wants to be an NFL HC. He's pushing 60 and has medical issues. I know you are on the board of directors of the BA hater brigade and that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion, though it grossly differs from mine. It's not the first time in all of the years we've known each other that we've disagreed and I know for certain it sure won't be the last. :drink:

P.S. I think YOU could successfully coach the Cards in that rot-gut division they're in. :wink:

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 09:57 AM
Is that the same OC who called for a shotgun on 3rd and 1 not once but twice against the browns???

Is that the same OC who when facing the 2nd worst rush defense (Oakland) and in great field postition after the game opening kick off decided to pass the ball on 2nd and 3rd down??? Empty set no less wouldn't want them to think there is even a chance we might run it!!! So we could setup for the field goal instead of scoring the Touchdown???

He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!

Yes he did beat Whiz but I would argue that Whiz did more with less and against a better Defense. That game should have been a blow out and we are lucky that Silverback made the right adjustment or we probably would not have the ring.

As I have stated on another thread we won the Superbowl last year with Mitch Berger as our punter but I don't see him back here what's up with that???

Where do I sign up to become a member in good standing on that B.A. hater board???

Not trying to step on your toes Hometown Gal, but I love a spirited conversation hope you do too.

Nadroj 20
12-18-2009, 10:37 AM
Is that the same OC who called for a shotgun on 3rd and 1 not once but twice against the browns???

Is that the same OC who when facing the 2nd worst rush defense (Oakland) and in great field postition after the game opening kick off decided to pass the ball on 2nd and 3rd down??? Empty set no less wouldn't want them to think there is even a chance we might run it!!! So we could setup for the field goal instead of scoring the Touchdown???

He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!

Yes he did beat Whiz but I would argue that Whiz did more with less and against a better Defense. That game should have been a blow out and we are lucky that Silverback made the right adjustment or we probably would not have the ring.

As I have stated on another thread we won the Superbowl last year with Mitch Berger as our punter but I don't see him back here what's up with that???

Where do I sign up to become a member in good standing on that B.A. hater board???

Not trying to step on your toes Hometown Gal, but I love a spirited conversation hope you do too.

More with less? Im not bringing down Ben and the Steelers offense at all but dont you think a good vet in Kurt Warner the best WR in the game in Fitz and arguably another top 15 WR in Boldin is a darn good offense? Throw in Edge and Breaston who were other keys in the offense and you have who was probably one of the most danergous Os in the NFL last year.

Im not sure he had "less" then us so lets not make Whiz out to be a miracle worker or anything, he had a very solid offense.

SteelGhost
12-18-2009, 10:58 AM
The older Ben gets the more he is going to have to get rid of it. I can already see him moving slower this year. Now generally I accept the bad due to him making big plays by keeping them alive but this year he has abandoned throwing it away like a veteran QB should. On another note, its pretty hard to keep sticking up for Arians, I don't know if I am starting to believe he sucks because he does, or because I read it over 1000 times on this board. But does anyone think a great OC would have made a difference in our record. Special teams and D has lost a few on their own, not to mention we cannot force a turnover to save our life.

The overweight is slowing him down, maybe he's having dinner with Big Snack too frequently :chuckle:

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 11:02 AM
More with less? Im not bringing down Ben and the Steelers offense at all but dont you think a good vet in Kurt Warner the best WR in the game in Fitz and arguably another top 15 WR in Boldin is a darn good offense? Throw in Edge and Breaston who were other keys in the offense and you have who was probably one of the most danergous Os in the NFL last year.

Im not sure he had "less" then us so lets not make Whiz out to be a miracle worker or anything, he had a very solid offense.


Ok I can give you that both teams offenses were pretty evenly matched but who faced the better Defense???

Our Defense did it's part early on in that game and it should not have been that close. The coverage on Fitz was phenominal for 3 quaters and the offense could not convert.

We won the game when we went no huddle and that was Ben calling the plays at that point not B.A.

fansince'76
12-18-2009, 11:03 AM
Special teams and D has lost a few on their own, not to mention we cannot force a turnover to save our life.

This. Did you see the wounded duck Garrard threw last night to lose the game? I have ten bucks that says had we been in the same situation, our CB drops it and Jax goes on to win that game on a last-second TD.

Nadroj 20
12-18-2009, 11:07 AM
Ok I can give you that both teams offenses were pretty evenly matched but who faced the better Defense???

Our Defense did it's part early on in that game and it should not have been that close. The coverage on Fitz was phenominal for 3 quaters and the offense could not convert.

We won the game when we went no huddle and that was Ben calling the plays at that point not B.A.

Cardinals did face the better D of course and im not saying BA won us the game or anything im not a huge supporter of him but im not a big basher on BA either im kinda stuck in the middle and i have 3 more games to base my opinion on so i want to see what happens.

HometownGal
12-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Is that the same OC who called for a shotgun on 3rd and 1 not once but twice against the browns???

Is that the same OC who when facing the 2nd worst rush defense (Oakland) and in great field postition after the game opening kick off decided to pass the ball on 2nd and 3rd down??? Empty set no less wouldn't want them to think there is even a chance we might run it!!! So we could setup for the field goal instead of scoring the Touchdown???



You won't get an argument from me on those calls, but again - I'm not down on the field privy to information as to why he called those plays against the defensive sets. As I've said before - Ben has the option of audibling on any given play if he doesn't like what is called or sees something across the line that isn't "appetizing".

He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!



I'm a huge fan of having a FB in the backfield, but the Steelers made a huge playoff run and won the SB last season pretty much without a fullback. Go figure.

Yes he did beat Whiz but I would argue that Whiz did more with less and against a better Defense. That game should have been a blow out and we are lucky that Silverback made the right adjustment or we probably would not have the ring.



More with less? Are you serious? Warner, Fitz, Boldin, Breaston?? :banging:

As far as your contention that the game should have been a "blowout" - you're right. The Cards gained 407 total yards on the Steelers D - 374 of those yards through the air. The secondary also gave up a 60+ TD pass to Fitz late in the game. Before that TD pass, the Steelers were nailed for a safety because of Hartwig's boneheaded penalty. While we are indeed fortunate that Harrison made a great play that resulted in a pick 6, we also are fortunate that the Steelers O and Jeff Reed put up 21 points on the board, the last 6 coming on a fabulous call by Arians and great execution by Ben and Santo. Amazing how BA gets blamed for every downfall the Steelers have had this season (and last), but never gets an ounce of credit by the BA hate club.

As I have stated on another thread we won the Superbowl last year with Mitch Berger as our punter but I don't see him back here what's up with that???



Selective memory, perhaps? :wink02: Have you forgotten that our regular punter, Dan Sepulveda, was injured the entire season and is now fully recovered and back to booting those punts? :banging:

Where do I sign up to become a member in good standing on that B.A. hater board???



You're already a member in good standing. Don't forget to pick up your membership card, ya hear? :chuckle:

Not trying to step on your toes Hometown Gal, but I love a spirited conversation hope you do too.

I love a spirited conversation, too, if it is sensible, realistic and backed up with facts. :drink:

HometownGal
12-18-2009, 11:19 AM
We won the game when we went no huddle and that was Ben calling the plays at that point not B.A.

Simply not true. The Steelers marched down the field in their last series with Ben using the no-huddle most of the time, but the winning TD call was BA's call. Google is your friend. :drink:

revefsreleets
12-18-2009, 12:10 PM
Yeah, I remember all the love Whiz felt when he ran a reverse in a goal line situation (true story)...revisionist history is SUCH lovely delusion!

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen'sSwagger
Is that the same OC who called for a shotgun on 3rd and 1 not once but twice against the browns???

Is that the same OC who when facing the 2nd worst rush defense (Oakland) and in great field postition after the game opening kick off decided to pass the ball on 2nd and 3rd down??? Empty set no less wouldn't want them to think there is even a chance we might run it!!! So we could setup for the field goal instead of scoring the Touchdown???


You won't get an argument from me on those calls, but again - I'm not down on the field privy to information as to why he called those plays against the defensive sets. As I've said before - Ben has the option of audibling on any given play if he doesn't like what is called or sees something across the line that isn't "appetizing".

The reason for the call according to Mike Tomlins press conference...We had the wind at our backs and we wanted to save the run plays for later in the game at a more critical time. Are you freakin' kidding me?!?!?!

Quote:
He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!


I'm a huge fan of having a FB in the backfield, but the Steelers made a huge playoff run and won the SB last season pretty much without a fullback. Go figure.

And without a running game for the most part, who'd a thunk it??? I think this more than anything else is a testament to how good Ben and the recievers played last year. Guess it caught up to them this year.


Quote:
Yes he did beat Whiz but I would argue that Whiz did more with less and against a better Defense. That game should have been a blow out and we are lucky that Silverback made the right adjustment or we probably would not have the ring.


More with less? Are you serious? Warner, Fitz, Boldin, Breaston??

I have already changed my stance on that good catch but Ben, Ward, Santonio, Heath and Washington were at least on par

As far as your contention that the game should have been a "blowout" - you're right. The Cards gained 407 total yards on the Steelers D - 374 of those yards through the air. The secondary also gave up a 60+ TD pass to Fitz late in the game. Before that TD pass, the Steelers were nailed for a safety because of Hartwig's boneheaded penalty. While we are indeed fortunate that Harrison made a great play that resulted in a pick 6, we also are fortunate that the Steelers O and Jeff Reed put up 21 points on the board, the last 6 coming on a fabulous call by Arians and great execution by Ben and Santo. Amazing how BA gets blamed for every downfall the Steelers have had this season (and last), but never gets an ounce of credit by the BA hate club.

The offense stagnated in that game and I will grant you the Ben int. was a lucky break for them if we had a fullback and a running game maybe we don't need the Harrison pick 6...although we would have been robbed of a mememory of a lifetime. As for all the yardage you quote most of that came in the 4th quarter when the D went into prevent mode trying to preserve a shakey lead because the offense was not producing and lack of a decent running game prevented us from running out the clock.

That is the same Defense that kept the team in game after game last year. How bout the pokes game where they gave the offense oppertunity after oppertunity and they still couldn't do a thing with the ball? The offense nearly cost us that win as well.

Quote:
As I have stated on another thread we won the Superbowl last year with Mitch Berger as our punter but I don't see him back here what's up with that???


Selective memory, perhaps? Have you forgotten that our regular punter, Dan Sepulveda, was injured the entire season and is now fully recovered and back to booting those punts?

Oh come on you can do better than that. Did I forget that???Hmmm or is my point being we had quite a team last year that was able to overcome it's shortcomings??? The argument that we won a Superbowl with B.A. holds up just as well as saying we won it with Mitch Berger. Did we win despite Berger or because of him??? if you say we won with because of him then why isn't he punting for us this year???


Quote:
Where do I sign up to become a member in good standing on that B.A. hater board???


You're already a member in good standing. Don't forget to pick up your membership card, ya hear?

LOL I had it all along I just needed to get it stamped at the door.


Quote:
Not trying to step on your toes Hometown Gal, but I love a spirited conversation hope you do too.

I love a spirited conversation, too, if it is sensible, realistic and backed up with facts.

My biggest gripe about B.A. is that he out thinks himself. Empty sets against teams that have horrible rush defense. Not sticking with the hot hand, took Mendy out for 2 series after he ripped a 60 yard run against Oakland. Not playing to a players strengths, Dennsi Dixon is a running QB have him run it a couple of times and then roll him out with the option to run. He hasn't learned the craft of decieving an opponent, make them think even if you aren't going to do it.

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah, I remember all the love Whiz felt when he ran a reverse in a goal line situation (true story)...revisionist history is SUCH lovely delusion!

Or how about this one from 2007, the "Anthony Smith Guarentee" game.

1st and 8 at NE 8 (15:00) W.Parker right tackle to NE 5 for 3 yards (R.Harrison, A.Samuel). 13 24
2nd and 5 at NE 5 (14:21) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Ward to NE 1 for 4 yards (M.Vrabel, A.Samuel). shovel pass 3-1-NE 1 (13:37) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to S.Holmes (R.Harrison).
4th and 1 at NE 1 (13:32) H.Ward right tackle to NE 1 for no gain (R.Harrison, R.Seymour).

revefsreleets
12-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Yup...it's one thing to deny that the past OC's were not hated, another thing entirely when people actually start suggesting they were revered as solid playcallers...

I'm just gonna shut up and sit back and read and laugh from here on out....

fansince'76
12-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Yeah, I remember all the love Whiz felt when he ran a reverse in a goal line situation (true story)...revisionist history is SUCH lovely delusion!

Well, I've already quoted an anti-Whiz thread that was posted right here a few years back with many of the exact same complaints that are being leveled against Arians, but I was chastised for it by one of the folks who apparently didn't want to be reminded of the fact that our OCs have always caught hell, so I will refrain from doing so again. :coffee:

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 12:28 PM
Yup...it's one thing to deny that the past OC's were not hated, another thing entirely when people actually start suggesting they were revered as solid playcallers...

I'm just gonna shut up and sit back and read and laugh from here on out....

Nobody said he walked on water but he is a damn sight better than B.A. at least he has some imagination and knows how to decieve a defense.

Along with this are you saying no coach has a down day??? Bill Cowher or even Chuck Noll???

Every coach has their days but losing to the chefs, raiders and browns there is no defense for that especially coming off a Superbowl victory. Hell we beat the vikings for cryin out loud...thanks to our Defense!!!

SteelerFanInStl
12-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Whatever they do, they have to make more of a commitment to the running game, including using a FB. If they get rid of Arians, I don't think that Anderson is the answer.

fansince'76
12-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Hell we beat the vikings for cryin out loud...thanks to our Defense!!!

Yep, the same D that made Bruce freakin' Gradkowski look like Peyton Manning and allowed him to torch them for 3 TDs inside of 8 minutes.

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 12:32 PM
Yep, the same D that allowed Bruce freakin' Gradkowski to torch them for 3 TDs inside of 8 minutes.


Yep the same one that has carried this team time and time again. To bad the offense can't win us a game sometimes.

fansince'76
12-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Yep the same one that has carried this team time and time again. To bad the offense can't win us a game sometimes.

You mean like the 38-28 victory against SD that the STs and D almost gave away after our offense put us up 28-0? Or the necessity of a game-winning TD drive in less than 3 minutes in this past SB when the D relinquished a 13-point 4th quarter lead and surrendered almost 300 passing yards in a single quarter?

Dino 6 Rings
12-18-2009, 12:35 PM
Yup...it's one thing to deny that the past OC's were not hated, another thing entirely when people actually start suggesting they were revered as solid playcallers...

I'm just gonna shut up and sit back and read and laugh from here on out....

Thing is...that 2007 play call, WR Reverse to Ward...was called by Bruce...not by Ken.

If you want a clear Ken Error in play calling, I give you Superbowl 30.

with an 11 point lead, at the Seattle 7 yard line, Ken calls a pass play on 3rd and 6 which results in an interception return that leads to a Seattle Touchdown and turns the game 14-10 instead of a FG attempt making it 17-3.

But I'm doing the whole hindsight is 20/20 thing.

Steel_12
12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
As I have stated on another thread we won the Superbowl last year with Mitch Berger as our punter but I don't see him back here what's up with that???

Lol...Sep is one of the best punters in the league!

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 01:24 PM
You mean like the 38-28 victory against SD that the STs and D almost gave away after our offense put us up 28-0? Or the necessity of a game-winning TD drive in less than 3 minutes in this past SB when the D relinquished a 13-point 4th quarter lead and surrendered almost 300 passing yards in a single quarter?

No I was talkin' about the offense that scored 6 whole points against the 32nd ranked Defense of the clowns, the same one that wanted to go into shotgun formation on 3rd and 1 twice in that same game because they had the wind at their backs and they wanted to save the running plays for a more crucial time?!?!?! Not the offense that stagnated in the 2nd 1/2 of the Superbowl or the one that couldn't score against the cowboys even though they had their own Defense damn near hand them oppertunity after oppertunity.

Come on man follow along!!!

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Lol...Sep is one of the best punters in the league!

As I have posted in this same thread earlier.

Oh come on you can do better than that. Did I forget that???Hmmm or is my point being we had quite a team last year that was able to overcome it's shortcomings??? The argument that we won a Superbowl with B.A. holds up just as well as saying we won it with Mitch Berger. Did we win despite Berger or because of him??? if you say we won with because of him then why isn't he punting for us this year???

Nobody could hit a player the way Mitch could, and he's a lot cheaper too. I say we should bring him back.

HometownGal
12-18-2009, 01:33 PM
Every coach has their days but losing to the chefs, raiders and browns there is no defense for that especially coming off a Superbowl victory. [B]Hell we beat the vikings for cryin out loud...thanks to our Defense!!!

And we lost at least 4 out of 7 games thanks to our Defense!!! :banging::banging:

BigBen'sSwagger
12-18-2009, 01:47 PM
And we lost at least 4 out of 7 games thanks to our Defense!!! :banging::banging:

Plenty of blame to go around missed tackles, blown coverage, penalties, missed blocking asignments, dropped passes, missed field goals, turnovers, lack of coverage on kicks and punts and of course coaching.

My point with B.A. is the empty sets, why give the defense such an advantage? Unable to use his players strengths to his advantage run dennis Dixon. His resistance to runnin the damn ball.

Steelerroy
12-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Quote:
He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!


I'm a huge fan of having a FB in the backfield, but the Steelers made a huge playoff run and won the SB last season pretty much without a fullback. Go figure.

And without a running game for the most part, who'd a thunk it??? I think this more than anything else is a testament to how good Ben and the recievers played last year. Guess it caught up to them this year.



Lets not forget that our running game didn't get going last year until they finally decided to start using Sean McHugh at fullback towards the end of the year.It really made a difference yet they went away from it again this year:doh:

revefsreleets
12-18-2009, 05:20 PM
Thing is...that 2007 play call, WR Reverse to Ward...was called by Bruce...not by Ken.

If you want a clear Ken Error in play calling, I give you Superbowl 30.

with an 11 point lead, at the Seattle 7 yard line, Ken calls a pass play on 3rd and 6 which results in an interception return that leads to a Seattle Touchdown and turns the game 14-10 instead of a FG attempt making it 17-3.

But I'm doing the whole hindsight is 20/20 thing.

OK....and?

They were both bad calls. Yet somehow one has taken on an air of nostalgia because it was a PAST OC, and the other has the stink of horrific failure from a doomed semi-retarded idiot simply because HE has the misfortune of being the CURRENT OC.

Preacher
12-18-2009, 05:56 PM
Quote:
He got rid of the Full Back position for cryin' out loud!!!


I'm a huge fan of having a FB in the backfield, but the Steelers made a huge playoff run and won the SB last season pretty much without a fullback. Go figure.

And without a running game for the most part, who'd a thunk it??? I think this more than anything else is a testament to how good Ben and the recievers played last year. Guess it caught up to them this year.



Lets not forget that our running game didn't get going last year until they finally decided to start using Sean McHugh at fullback towards the end of the year.It really made a difference yet they went away from it again this year:doh:

Yes but, that also came about because the line finally got healthy and Willie P. finally got healthy.

Can't say we started running simply because of a FB position. We started running because everyone got healthy at the right time.

Steelerroy
12-18-2009, 06:37 PM
Yes but, that also came about because the line finally got healthy and Willie P. finally got healthy.

Can't say we started running simply because of a FB position. We started running because everyone got healthy at the right time.

Wasn't tryng to say that was the only reason but it clearly helped.I don't think a fullback is the only answer to our problems but I do think there are times where we would be better with one then not.I'm more worried about the lack of run calls out of any formation then I am about using a fullback.If you wanna go 3 TE's that's fine but I just think we give up on the run to much.I love throwing it as much as anyone,I just want more balance.

zulater
12-18-2009, 09:06 PM
Thing is...that 2007 play call, WR Reverse to Ward...was called by Bruce...not by Ken.

If you want a clear Ken Error in play calling, I give you Superbowl 30.

with an 11 point lead, at the Seattle 7 yard line, Ken calls a pass play on 3rd and 6 which results in an interception return that leads to a Seattle Touchdown and turns the game 14-10 instead of a FG attempt making it 17-3.

But I'm doing the whole hindsight is 20/20 thing.

First off SB XXX or "30" as you put it was the Steelers vs. Cowboys after the 95 season. But assuming you're talking about SB XL. aka 40, that play was open, all Ben had to do was get some air under the ball and that was an easy touchdown.

Not sure what relevance that has to anything, but at least get the story straight. :hatsoff:

zulater
12-18-2009, 09:36 PM
No - I don't equate Whiz's job performance to Arians' at all. One was the OC of last season's Super Bowl winning team who hoisted that Lombardi (who, I might add, designed and called the game winning play which Ben and Santo executed to perfection) and the other was the HC of the team the Steelers beat who was on the shit end of the stick. :flap::wink02: OK, OK - Whiz was the OC when the Steelers won XV (and designed and called the wide receiver reverse pass which was executed beautifully and sealed the deal on that game), but hopefully you get my drift. :chuckle:

Personally, I don't think Arians wants to be an NFL HC. He's pushing 60 and has medical issues. I know you are on the board of directors of the BA hater brigade and that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion, though it grossly differs from mine. It's not the first time in all of the years we've known each other that we've disagreed and I know for certain it sure won't be the last. :drink:

P.S. I think YOU could successfully coach the Cards in that rot-gut division they're in. :wink:

Oh give me a break. Arains doesn't want to because he knows he's got no chance at ever being offered a job. Arains wouldn't get a shot at a head coaching job if you offered to pay the first 6 million of his salary and that was just as true after our most recent 5 game winning streak as it is now.

Here's some interesting tidbits Jim Wexall put me on to in this weeks Steelers Digest. *

The Steelers didn't convert a 3rd down until their 7th possession when they handed off to Rashard.

The Steelers passed or attempted to pass on 11 of their 14 3rd down attempts, this despite gusting winds, and converted once. They were sacked 5 times.

The Steelers converted 2 of the 3 running plays on 3rd down, the one they didn't convert was questionably spotted.. ( should have been challenged imo, but Tomlin never challenges spots)

Here's something else Brian Schaefering and Marcus Benard combined for 3.5 sacks against us. They were both practice squad players a few weeks before.

The other 4.5 sacks were by an equally nondescript bunch.

Funny how the same line that could effectively block the NFL's two leading sackers, ( Dumervil and allen) couldn't block these sad sacks?

Jim Wexall refers to Ben and Arains relationship as "codependent" and I think he's right.

Arains may not be the worst OC in the league, but I fear he might be the worst OC for Ben right now.

* can't provide a link because content in Steelers Digest isn't on the web. But none of what i shared is a direct quote of Wexall, I more or less just relayed certain information in my own words

Rick5895
12-19-2009, 04:36 AM
This thread is getting a bit old. I am one who hoes they remove Arians as the OC. If they don't I hope Tomlin has a long hard chat with him about adjustments in the off season. This O has been stagnant for at least half the season. Too many empty sets, plays that take too long to develop, if opposing D can adjust to us why can't we re-adjust.
Here's hoping to 3 wins to close the season, and hoping B.A calls great games and we score 30 a game. Then when the season is over look at and evaluate the ENTIRE STAFF to see if changes are needed.
Go STEELERS

HometownGal
12-19-2009, 06:57 AM
Oh give me a break. Arains doesn't want to because he knows he's got no chance at ever being offered a job. Arains wouldn't get a shot at a head coaching job if you offered to pay the first 6 million of his salary and that was just as true after our most recent 5 game winning streak as it is now.

Here's some interesting tidbits Jim Wexall put me on to in this weeks Steelers Digest. *

The Steelers didn't convert a 3rd down until their 7th possession when they handed off to Rashard.

The Steelers passed or attempted to pass on 11 of their 14 3rd down attempts, this despite gusting winds, and converted once. They were sacked 5 times.

The Steelers converted 2 of the 3 running plays on 3rd down, the one they didn't convert was questionably spotted.. ( should have been challenged imo, but Tomlin never challenges spots)

Here's something else Brian Schaefering and Marcus Benard combined for 3.5 sacks against us. They were both practice squad players a few weeks before.

The other 4.5 sacks were by an equally nondescript bunch.

Funny how the same line that could effectively block the NFL's two leading sackers, ( Dumervil and allen) couldn't block these sad sacks?

Jim Wexall refers to Ben and Arains relationship as "codependent" and I think he's right.

Arains may not be the worst OC in the league, but I fear he might be the worst OC for Ben right now.

* can't provide a link because content in Steelers Digest isn't on the web. But none of what i shared is a direct quote of Wexall, I more or less just relayed certain information in my own words

Getting a bit snarky here, aren't ya?

Look zu - you have your opinion, I have mine. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong. I have acknowledged several times on this board that I don't agree with every play BA calls, but I don't deem myself, or anyone around here for that matter, qualified to make those judgments. The Steelers FO calls the shots and if they agree with you and the other witch hunters around here, you can all pat yourselves and each other on the back and sing Kumbaya. :grouphug: If you want to keep riding this blame BA for everything that has gone wrong with the Steelers this season merry-go-round, then have at it. :drink: Instead of incessantly whining about the state the team has been in for the last 5 weeks (which whining doesn't change the outcome), I'm going to gear myself up for the game against the Pack on Sunday, send positive vibes to the team and coaches, cheer my team on and hope for the best. :tt03:

zulater
12-19-2009, 09:17 AM
This thread is getting a bit old. I am one who hoes they remove Arians as the OC. If they don't I hope Tomlin has a long hard chat with him about adjustments in the off season. This O has been stagnant for at least half the season. Too many empty sets, plays that take too long to develop, if opposing D can adjust to us why can't we re-adjust.
Here's hoping to 3 wins to close the season, and hoping B.A calls great games and we score 30 a game. Then when the season is over look at and evaluate the ENTIRE STAFF to see if changes are needed.
Go STEELERS

Good stuff Rick. :thumbsup:

zulater
12-19-2009, 10:07 AM
Getting a bit snarky here, aren't ya?

Look zu - you have your opinion, I have mine. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong. I have acknowledged several times on this board that I don't agree with every play BA calls, but I don't deem myself, or anyone around here for that matter, qualified to make those judgments. The Steelers FO calls the shots and if they agree with you and the other witch hunters around here, you can all pat yourselves and each other on the back and sing Kumbaya. :grouphug: If you want to keep riding this blame BA for everything that has gone wrong with the Steelers this season merry-go-round, then have at it. :drink: Instead of incessantly whining about the state the team has been in for the last 5 weeks (which whining doesn't change the outcome), I'm going to gear myself up for the game against the Pack on Sunday, send positive vibes to the team and coaches, cheer my team on and hope for the best. :tt03:

If I'm getting snarky it's a natural reaction to being talked down to. I've noticed there's a smarmy, dismissive quality frequently displayed here if one posts in a contrary manner, particuarly if the offending party has a low post count .


And pretty much what I've posted here is fact or at least strongly supported opinion.

Whiz was in fact considered a rising entity when he was a Steelers assistant coach. That's supported by the fact that he was involved in the interview proccess with several teams both in 06 and 07.

Fact. Arains has never been rumored to be going anywhere. Opinion. Nor will he be.

That supports the thought that the league wide perception of Arains isn't overly high. At the very least he's not seen as having an ascending quality to him like Whiz did.

Now to your argument or inference that us silly old reactionary fans had the same attitude towards Whiz as we do now to Arains when things went wrong. I strongly disagree.

After a poor offensive showing there's a natural reaction to blame the OC. So of course occasionally Whiz fell victim to the fans ire, I would say the 2 Ravens games in 06 probably would be prime examples of that. But I also know that Whisenhunt had strong support among Steelers fans to succeed Cowher, after that aforementioned disappointing season.* Think if for some reason Tomlin were to leave Arains would have any support to succeed him?

Also after the 05 season Whiz was thought to be in the running for several head coaching jobs. ( didn't he turn down an interview request from the Raiders?) By an overwhelming majority most of us were relieved when he ended up staying. By contrast after winning the Super Bowl last year many that I know ( I can link you to the site if you want, the posts are still there) were praying that some sap of an orginization would be sucked in by the Steelers winning the Super bowl and hire Arains away. So it's not a bandwagon thing, it's not revionist history, I just never viewed Arains as anything more than a C+ sort of coach, and I think this team needs and deserves better.

Now to the point - Do I think I know more than the people making these decisions for the Steelers? No I don't. But i also know smart people once invested in something will sometimes ride it out longer than they should. Should Zo Jackson have ever seen a 3rd training camp? Should Tony Hills? Should Charlie Batch have been behind Tommy Maddox on the depth chart in 05? Should Clark Haggans have been starting over James Harrison in 06? etc etc etc.... Smart people often throw good money after bad, at least for a while. Sometimes things will self correct, maybe the person adapts or grows into the position in time. And there have certainly been some positives with Bruce. But alas he's had the time now and he remains what he always was a C+ coach. And with our defense sliding and unable to carry a disproportinate share of the load, that's just not good enough anymore.



OK I've cleansed myself on the subject for now. I'm just going to wait and see how these next 3 games play out.

Go Steelers! :tt04:


* I wasn't making the argument for or against Whiz over Tomlin at the time, I was just pointing out that if Whiz had been chosen for the job it would have generally been met with approval by Steelers fans, if not overwhelming so. And I think you know the same wouldn't be true of Arians even if this slump had never occured.

zulater
12-19-2009, 11:09 AM
One last thing. I don't beleive, nor have I ever said Bruce Arains alone is the source of the Steelers current struggles. He's not. Obviously special teams, and the defense have taken the turns sabatoging the season as well. Moreso than anything Arians has done, or not done in fact.

But what I do believe is the offense is the most easily fixed area of this team, that it possesess the neccessary talent to be an elite unit with the right guidance.


Here's how I see it. You've got an A- qb, a B+ tailback ( with a bullet) your receiver corps rank an A- ( Heath included) and I'd give the O-line a C+. Ok now here's where you may argue. But here's why I think the line deserves no less than that grade. The Steelers o-line did a good job controlling the line of scrimmage against the Broncos, the Vikings and even the Ravens ( imo) They effectively neatralized the two leading sack specialists in the league. ( Dumervil and Allen) They mostly controlled the line of scrimmage in Baltimore against a pretty good Raven defense despite being limited in their play selection due to their qb situation. So the ability is there. Max Starks and Willie Colon would start on over half the teams in this league. Kemoeatu is an emerging force and is already one of the better pulling guards in the league. Admittedly Hartwig has been a sore thumb lately, well actually i guess he has a bad knee, and Essex is adequete at best. It's certainly not without warts.

But it's far from hopeless. Giving up 8 sacks to the Browns had nothing to do with a lack of talent and everything to do with a lack of preparation imo. And not just by the o-line, that goes for the whole offensive unit. And to me, when a team comes out totally unprepared and can't make the neccessary adjustments on the fly ( particuarly when you're going against a bunch of practice squad stiffs like they did last week) then I'm pointing my finger at the coaching staff. .

43Hitman
12-19-2009, 11:44 AM
One last thing. I don't beleive, nor have I ever said Bruce Arains alone is the source of the Steelers current struggles. He's not. Obviously special teams, and the defense have taken the turns sabatoging the season as well. Moreso than anything Arians has done, or not done in fact.

But what I do believe is the offense is the most easily fixed area of this team, that it possesess the neccessary talent to be an elite unit with the right guidance.


Here's how I see it. You've got an A- qb, a B+ tailback ( with a bullet) your receiver corps rank an A- ( Heath included) and I'd give the O-line a C+. Ok now here's where you may argue. But here's why I think the line deserves no less than that grade. The Steelers o-line did a good job controlling the line of scrimmage against the Broncos, the Vikings and even the Ravens ( imo) They effectively neatralized the two leading sack specialists in the league. ( Dumervil and Allen) They mostly controlled the line of scrimmage in Baltimore against a pretty good Raven defense despite being limited in their play selection due to their qb situation. So the ability is there. Max Starks and Willie Colon would start on over half the teams in this league. Kemoeatu is an emerging force and is already one of the better pulling guards in the league. Admittedly Hartwig has been a sore thumb lately, well actually i guess he has a bad knee, and Essex is adequete at best. It's certainly not without warts.

But it's far from hopeless. Giving up 8 sacks to the Browns had nothing to do with a lack of talent and everything to do with a lack of preparation imo. And not just by the o-line, that goes for the whole offensive unit. And to me, when a team comes out totally unprepared and can't make the neccessary adjustments on the fly ( particuarly when you're going against a bunch of practice squad stiffs like they did last week) then I'm pointing my finger at the coaching staff. .

Very well said. :thumbsup:

HometownGal
12-20-2009, 08:19 AM
If I'm getting snarky it's a natural reaction to being talked down to. I've noticed there's a smarmy, dismissive quality frequently displayed here if one posts in a contrary manner, particuarly if the offending party has a low post count .



Post count has nothing to do with how I, or most others around here, reply to you or anyone else. There may be a few exceptions, but that is my consensus.

And pretty much what I've posted here is fact or at least strongly supported opinion.



I'm sorry, zu, but I view it as the dreaded "H" word and/or scapegoating. Steelers fans, historically, are masters in those departments. Does the name Terry Bradshaw ring a bell?

Whiz was in fact considered a rising entity when he was a Steelers assistant coach. That's supported by the fact that he was involved in the interview proccess with several teams both in 06 and 07.

Fact. Arains has never been rumored to be going anywhere. Opinion. Nor will he be.

That supports the thought that the league wide perception of Arains isn't overly high. At the very least he's not seen as having an ascending quality to him like Whiz did.

Now to your argument or inference that us silly old reactionary fans had the same attitude towards Whiz as we do now to Arains when things went wrong. I strongly disagree.

I have to strongly disagree with you on that statement, as I read plenty of dissent on Whiz around here when "things went wrong".

After a poor offensive showing there's a natural reaction to blame the OC.


Understandable somewhat, but what I've seen around here, especially this season, is the un-natural reaction to blame the OC for the poor defensive showing and the D's propensity of blowing leads in the 4Q that Arians' offense has given them, as well as the failure of the OL, at times, to protect Ben.

But I also know that Whisenhunt had strong support among Steelers fans to succeed Cowher, after that aforementioned disappointing season.* Think if for some reason Tomlin were to leave Arains would have any support to succeed him?

The Steelers FO does the hiring and firing, not the media or the fans.

Also after the 05 season Whiz was thought to be in the running for several head coaching jobs. ( didn't he turn down an interview request from the Raiders?) By an overwhelming majority most of us were relieved when he ended up staying. By contrast after winning the Super Bowl last year many that I know ( I can link you to the site if you want, the posts are still there) were praying that some sap of an orginization would be sucked in by the Steelers winning the Super bowl and hire Arains away. So it's not a bandwagon thing, it's not revionist history, I just never viewed Arains as anything more than a C+ sort of coach, and I think this team needs and deserves better.

No need to link me to the site. Wouldn't change my opinion one iota. But thanks anyway. :drink:

Now to the point - Do I think I know more than the people making these decisions for the Steelers? No I don't. But i also know smart people once invested in something will sometimes ride it out longer than they should. Should Zo Jackson have ever seen a 3rd training camp? Should Tony Hills? Should Charlie Batch have been behind Tommy Maddox on the depth chart in 05? Should Clark Haggans have been starting over James Harrison in 06? etc etc etc.... Smart people often throw good money after bad, at least for a while. Sometimes things will self correct, maybe the person adapts or grows into the position in time. And there have certainly been some positives with Bruce. But alas he's had the time now and he remains what he always was a C+ coach. And with our defense sliding and unable to carry a disproportinate share of the load, that's just not good enough anymore.

We're simply going to have to agree to disagree on this, zu, for the simple reason that I do not believe the team's woes this season fall solely on Bruce Arians' shoulders as many of you believe. BA's O has given the team leads late in the 4Q in at least 5 games this season which have been squandered away by poor defensive play. That is the reality of the situation for me. :drink:

OK I've cleansed myself on the subject for now. I'm just going to wait and see how these next 3 games play out.

AMEN to that. I'm done with this topic and am instead of looking back at last week's debacle, the outcome of which isn't going to change no matter how much debating we do over it, I'm going to look ahead to today's matchup with the Pack.

GO STEELERS!:tt02::tt04::tt:

BigBen'sSwagger
12-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Quote:
But I also know that Whisenhunt had strong support among Steelers fans to succeed Cowher, after that aforementioned disappointing season.* Think if for some reason Tomlin were to leave Arains would have any support to succeed him?
The Steelers FO does the hiring and firing, not the media or the fans.

You must be a fan of the Dodgers because that was one helluva dodge!!!

I don't just blame B. A. for our woes as I have said before there is enough blame to go around. I just believe we could do a helluva lot better.

I couldn't believe it when I heard Tomlin's explanation of why the team went for it 2ce on 3rd and 1 against Leaveland. he stated in hindsight that was a bad call, but they had the wind at their backs and wanted to save the running plays for a more crucial time in the game!?!?!? Are you freakin' kidding me??? Run the ball and see what type of success you have on 3rd and one with Menden Haul. It makes for a much more sound game plan and then if you are successful run it until they stop it.

I also couldn't believe before the leaveland game that we had players (James Harrison amongst others) standing around a heater??? This sure aint my Steelers we are built for this. Come on Team get your heads outta your rearends and show us fans your heart!!!

groundhogday
12-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Canning BA and bringing in someone who believes in Play Action, Screen Passes, Balanced attack, and has a feel for situation football would contirbute greatly to solving problem #1....not winning games.

HometownGal
12-20-2009, 10:46 AM
[B]The Steelers FO does the hiring and firing, not the media or the fans.[/B
]
You must be a fan of the Dodgers because that was one helluva dodge!!!



It absolutely was not a dodge. It is plain and simple FACT. :doh:

Steelers17
12-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Listening to 1250 Steeler talk. Ken Laird the host was talking to Bettis and both seem to think unless the Steelers lose the last three games that Arians would probably be back. They did say that Tomlin will need to put his stamp on this offense of which he has very little input at this time.

Does any quantitative evidence exist indicating that Tomlin holds a scintilla of offensive expertise to date? Who knows, perhaps he will morph into Bill Walsh after undergoing a Vulcan mind melt and cease being a non-stop, blathering cliché robot!

VTsteel
12-20-2009, 11:53 AM
. . . Tomlin . . . cease being a non-stop, blathering cliché robot!

Ouch! :injured:

I enjoy Tomlins quotability. I don't think his take on old axioms are cliche' at all. Kinda refreshing actually.

HometownGal
12-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Does any quantitative evidence exist indicating that Tomlin holds a scintilla of offensive expertise to date?

Tomlin played as a WR in college, though he never was drafted into the NFL. He also was a WR coach for 2 colleges in the mid-90's before becoming a DB coach and DC in the NFL. Tomlin's expertise is clearly on the D side of the ball. That is why I :rofl: when people suggest he should take over the O playcalling. :toofunny:

Who knows, perhaps he will morph into Bill Walsh after undergoing a Vulcan mind melt and cease being a non-stop, blathering cliché robot!

That's a bit unfair, don't you think? Tomlin has his own unique style which I find refreshing compared to some of the stiffs who have previously (and currently) coach in the NFL.

WH
12-20-2009, 01:02 PM
That's a bit unfair, don't you think? Tomlin has his own unique style which I find refreshing compared to some of the stiffs who have previously (and currently) coach in the NFL.

He seems really really Herm Edwards-ish.

zulater
12-20-2009, 02:14 PM
Post count has nothing to do with how I, or most others around here, reply to you or anyone else. There may be a few exceptions, but that is my consensus.



I'm sorry, zu, but I view it as the dreaded "H" word and/or scapegoating. Steelers fans, historically, are masters in those departments. Does the name Terry Bradshaw ring a bell?

Yeah it rings a bell. But this is the first time in my life I've ever seen he and Arains name in the same sentence. :wink02:



I have to strongly disagree with you on that statement, as I read plenty of dissent on Whiz around here when "things went wrong".

Not near as much as with Arains, which was my point. Do you disagree that Whisenhunt while employed by the Steelers generally was held in higher regard than Arians? Answer that one honestly and I'll leave you alone on the subject henceforth. :wave:



Understandable somewhat, but what I've seen around here, especially this season, is the un-natural reaction to blame the OC for the poor defensive showing and the D's propensity of blowing leads in the 4Q that Arians' offense has given them, as well as the failure of the OL, at times, to protect Ben.

Who's denying there's a boatload of problems on this team that has nothing to do with Arains? It's just that our most recent game the offense was the biggest problem, so of course that's the hottest topic.

If I had started posting here a week earliar I would have been lamenting the secondary play. . :chuckle:



The Steelers FO does the hiring and firing, not the media or the fans.

Duh. So I suppose good little fans and beat writers should be seen and not heard unless they have good things to say? :love: Wave our terrible towels and marvel at the front office's every move like trained seals perhaps? :applaudit: Yeah that will make for some interesting reading in the PPG and Trib..



No need to link me to the site. Wouldn't change my opinion one iota. But thanks anyway. :drink:

Shows who has the closed mind then doesn't it? :hatsoff:



We're simply going to have to agree to disagree on this, zu, for the simple reason that I do not believe the team's woes this season fall solely on Bruce Arians' shoulders as many of you believe. BA's O has given the team leads late in the 4Q in at least 5 games this season which have been squandered away by poor defensive play. That is the reality of the situation for me. :drink:

The reality is that the defense does share in the blame, as does the special teams, the coaching staff, bad luck, our opponents, and several other things. No one disputes that. But handing the defense a 3 point lead sometimes isn't good enough. Last year usually it was. This year it's different.No Troy, no Aaron, you need to do more to extend the lead.


AMEN to that. I'm done with this topic and am instead of looking back at last week's debacle, the outcome of which isn't going to change no matter how much debating we do over it, I'm going to look ahead to today's matchup with the Pack.

GO STEELERS!:tt02::tt04::tt:

I'm looking foward to it as well. I just hope they play their A game today.

Steelers17
12-20-2009, 02:39 PM
That's a bit unfair, don't you think? Tomlin has his own unique style which I find refreshing compared to some of the stiffs who have previously (and currently) coach in the NFL.

Perhaps so and I see your point. After 5-consecutive devastating losses, however, the current focus appears exclusively on production with peripherals e.g., Chairman of the Entertainment Committee, far less on point. I sincerely hope your perspective becomes the acceptable standard and my perceived negatives are totally ill-founded.

To say we need a win today does not nearly serve the gravity of the situation appropriately!

BigBen'sSwagger
12-20-2009, 07:08 PM
For what it's worth the OFFENSE Won the Game Today. I personally thought the refs called a lot of Ticky Tacky calls against our OFFENSE.

Dino 6 Rings
12-20-2009, 07:10 PM
OK....and?

They were both bad calls. Yet somehow one has taken on an air of nostalgia because it was a PAST OC, and the other has the stink of horrific failure from a doomed semi-retarded idiot simply because HE has the misfortune of being the CURRENT OC.

Oh, you don't see me doing the whole wish we had wisenhunt thing...

and yes...Superbowl 40...thanks to the guy who pointed out my error...