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BradfordTheGreat
12-21-2009, 10:44 AM
James Farrior is an experienced, smart football player, a terrific run stopper and blitzer, and a good tackler. This thread is not to rag on him, but the situations he's put in.

As we all know, he's getting up there in the age department, and with that, he's getting slower. And when I say slower, I mean a half step slower than any given route runner on the opposing squad, besides maybe a slow fullback or very slow tight end.

My question: Why ever put him in man coverage?

We saw it against Ray Rice in Baltimore, we certainly saw it last night in those passes over the middle, where he was lucky that a pass skipped off his helmet. We saw it game 1 vs. Cinci where he couldn't stay with Bernard Scott (i think?) on a crucial 4th down play.

Why would we ever put him into man coverage? He continues to blow it, and not because he's bad, he's just too slow nowadays.

We need to do one or more of the following:

-Blitz him. He's a good pass rusher for an MLB and makes a habit of getting to the QB through middle.

-Drop him into a middle zone. God (and Aaron Rodgers) know we have gaps over the middle in our cover 3.

-Double someone. He is still a liability in this, since he has obligations in a double-team, in this case probably the underneath coverage, where speed is more of a factor.

-Spy the QB. Would've helped last night, against the most running QB in the nfl.

Again, this isn't to rag on him. And I'm not saying he's any worse in man coverage than our secondary, but they have no excuse. This just comes down to playcalling.

madtowndrunkard
12-21-2009, 10:54 AM
He's part of a system. You cannot let one player dictate how you run your entire defense. Farrior needs to do what is asked of him. I'm willing to bet what the offense does dictates what Farrior does on any given play. Dick Lebeau has been doing this a while. I'm sure he knows who is getting it done and who is not. Unfortunately he has to use the players he has. Sure he can change things up a little bit given the strengths and weaknesses of his players....but I hardly think Farrior is such a problem that we need to adjust our schemes to cover up Farriors weaknesses.

I think the loss of A. Smith and Troy have more to do with our defense falling apart then schemes. Lack of pass rush has exposed our secondary. I'm not talking about sacks....I'm talking about Smiths ability to collapse the pocket and hurry up the QB. Smith rarely gets a sack but he's always causing QB's to hurry or feel uncomfortable. Smith's absence also makes things tougher for our LB's. Now add in the fact that the QB no longer has to wonder were the heck is Troy P? If the opponents QB is comfortable and has no fear of throwing the ball in the middle of the field (were troy normally roams) it is a recipe for disaster.

Sure other issues have come up. Ike and Gay are certainly have a bad year....but I think the loss of Troy and Smith have magnified that a ton. I think one more playmaker in the secondary for next year would go along way towards making our defense as dominate as we all expect.

BradfordTheGreat
12-21-2009, 11:14 AM
....but I hardly think Farrior is such a problem that we need to adjust our schemes to cover up Farriors weaknesses.


I'm not saying we have to give up on our schemes.

And I recall it's a fairly large problem, at least in end game situations. Take Ray Rice's catch for example, or Bernard Scott's. We play those differently, and take him out of man, and we're (maybe) 9-5.

steelreserve
12-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Sure other issues have come up. Ike and Gay are certainly have a bad year....but I think the loss of Troy and Smith have magnified that a ton. I think one more playmaker in the secondary for next year would go along way towards making our defense as dominate as we all expect.

One more playmaker in the secondary ...now I wonder who that could be. Perhaps someone who could take over for Carter and be a bit more explosive. If only we had someone like that on the roster.

Ahh well. I don't know where we'd find that kind of player, so I guess we'd better go DB, DB, DB, DB, OL, OL, OL in the draft.

OneForTheToe
12-21-2009, 12:05 PM
In addition to our two rookies, and a probable a draft pick, I see us signing a mid-range free agent corner or safety next season. Someone brought in who has better ball skills. Of course, if Clark goes then we might have to bring in more than one.

BlastFurnace
12-21-2009, 12:10 PM
I think Farrior is finished. He misses way too many tackles and is beaten fairly easily when covering anyone. Not to mention, some of his missed tackles are just flops and flails...in other words....he looks pretty bad doing it.

Clearly though, the biggest weakness on the defense is the entire secondary....every single one of them.

madtowndrunkard
12-21-2009, 12:28 PM
One more playmaker in the secondary ...now I wonder who that could be. Perhaps someone who could take over for Carter and be a bit more explosive. If only we had someone like that on the roster.

Ahh well. I don't know where we'd find that kind of player, so I guess we'd better go DB, DB, DB, DB, OL, OL, OL in the draft.



:) You know what I mean. It would be nice to have one more besides Troy. I would not mind seeing a ball hawking FS on this team.

That could suddenly make our corners look alot better then they've been.

SteelMember
12-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I don't think Farrior is finished by any means.

Yes, he has been put into some poor coverage situations. Covering Rb's on the outside of the box, but that's a problem/mis-match for a lot of lb's.

Look at the problems Heath made for Hawk yesterday. He's not old.

Coach's try to get these types of mis-matches all the time.

Besides, Farriors helmet made a nice play to deflect that deep ball over the middle. :chuckle:

steeltheone
12-21-2009, 02:08 PM
Needs to be cut number one in the offseason. Had a good career with the Steelers. We are entirely to old up front.

BlastFurnace
12-21-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't think Farrior is finished by any means.

Yes, he has been put into some poor coverage situations. Covering Rb's on the outside of the box, but that's a problem/mis-match for a lot of lb's.

Look at the problems Heath made for Hawk yesterday. He's not old.

Coach's try to get these types of mis-matches all the time.

Besides, Farriors helmet made a nice play to deflect that deep ball over the middle. :chuckle:

It's not just his coverage skills. He flops all over the field after missing tackles as well.

SteelMember
12-21-2009, 02:17 PM
It's not just his coverage skills. He flops all over the field after missing tackles as well.

Well, unfortunately the missing tackles thing seems to be pretty contagious on the entire D.

Just think if they pass the no tackling to the groud in practice rule suggested eariler in the year. :doh:

It's a basic skill, and needs to be practiced more, imo... by a lot of people.

BlastFurnace
12-21-2009, 02:26 PM
Well, unfortunately the missing tackles thing seems to be pretty contagious on the entire D.

Just think if they pass the no tackling to the groud in practice rule suggested eariler in the year. :doh:

It's a basic skill, and needs to be practiced more, imo... by a lot of people.

It absolutely drives me crazy to see our defensive players go for the big hit, not wrap the guy up, and the opposing player just bounces off the tackle and runs wild.

Carter and Clark are the worst culprits of this. Hopefully, both of them will be gone next year.

SteelerFanInTX210
12-21-2009, 02:31 PM
This upcoming season is going to be the perfect time to cut some of the older guys still under contract because its going to be cap free, now I'm not one of these guys that want the team to just go out and get a bunch of big names but wouldn't you want to take advantage and get yourself in a better position finacially in preperation for the cap to return?

SteelMember
12-21-2009, 02:36 PM
It absolutely drives me crazy to see our defensive players go for the big hit, not wrap the guy up, and the opposing player just bounces off the tackle and runs wild.

Carter and Clark are the worst culprits of this. Hopefully, both of them will be gone next year.

I know what you mean.

There are a lot of mistakes made on a football field that can cause a fan to get upset, but nothing burns my ass more than a missed tackle.

psusteelers4life
12-21-2009, 04:57 PM
I think both ILB's have trouble in man coverage. Timmons as well as Farrior. I agree Farrior has lost a step but he is still a good middle backer. I can see him in a reduced role next year not cut maybe 2 down backer with Fox and or draft/FA pick up comming in on 3rd. You can see on the blitzes yesterday and all year Farrior can still get after it and has a nose for the ball , yes he has missed some tackles but like what was said here before it seems the whole team has forgot that most important fundamental on defense.

Steelers17
12-21-2009, 05:30 PM
James Farrior is an experienced, smart football player, a terrific run stopper and blitzer, and a good tackler. This thread is not to rag on him, but the situations he's put in.

As we all know, he's getting up there in the age department, and with that, he's getting slower. And when I say slower, I mean a half step slower than any given route runner on the opposing squad, besides maybe a slow fullback or very slow tight end.

My question: Why ever put him in man coverage?

We saw it against Ray Rice in Baltimore, we certainly saw it last night in those passes over the middle, where he was lucky that a pass skipped off his helmet. We saw it game 1 vs. Cinci where he couldn't stay with Bernard Scott (i think?) on a crucial 4th down play.

Why would we ever put him into man coverage? He continues to blow it, and not because he's bad, he's just too slow nowadays.

We need to do one or more of the following:

-Blitz him. He's a good pass rusher for an MLB and makes a habit of getting to the QB through middle.

-Drop him into a middle zone. God (and Aaron Rodgers) know we have gaps over the middle in our cover 3.

-Double someone. He is still a liability in this, since he has obligations in a double-team, in this case probably the underneath coverage, where speed is more of a factor.

-Spy the QB. Would've helped last night, against the most running QB in the nfl.

Again, this isn't to rag on him. And I'm not saying he's any worse in man coverage than our secondary, but they have no excuse. This just comes down to playcalling.


How about retiring him while his UVA educated brain continues functioning at a high level.

SteelersMongol
12-21-2009, 08:03 PM
If U guys R looking 4 a black sheep, Farrior is not it!!! Look 4 somewhere else.

BlastFurnace
12-21-2009, 08:04 PM
If U guys R looking 4 a black sheep, Farrior is not it!!! Look 4 somewhere else.

Farrior has had issues this season.

markymarc
12-22-2009, 12:15 PM
While the entire defense has been bad with tackling this season, I do agree that age is really starting to catch up with James Farrior. I still think he can be a very effective 2 down MLB in this defense, but he is a big liability on passing downs. I would like to see what Keyaron Fox could do in Farrior's spot next season.

It would also be nice to start getting some young depth at the MLB and OLB spots after this season.

OX1947
12-22-2009, 12:46 PM
This is exactly why I did not want to get rid of Foote. Two reasons were Foote and Farrior were one brain. The other, Farrior had 2 years left in him. This year and next year. And with Timmons playing as the 5th LB last year and being extremely effective, why change it. Besides, Timmons isnt a middle LB. He is a will or sam pass rusher. He is out of position.

steelpride12
12-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Well its hard to put your concentration on one player when it comes to the secondary because the entire defense def. the DB's and Carter are just not playing well at all.
Farrior is just getting to the point of retirement in his career. He is our defensive leader and captain and playcaller for seasons now and has well deserved that row.

It seems the entire defense is not blitzing as much this season, I am seeing a lot of 4 man rush business and Farrior being one who drops into coverage a lot and giving up the middle routes wide open. The entire defense is lacking this season for sure and of course Troy makes a difference, but cannot fix the whole D.

revefsreleets
12-22-2009, 04:24 PM
He's STILL the leading tackler on the team. He still "brings it". If you think he can't drop into coverage anymore, then, whether you know it or not, you're actually thinking that he can't play ILB for the Pittsburgh Steelers anymore, because dropping into coverage is part and parcel with the job.

For Christ's sake, Casey freaking Hampton has to drop into coverage on occasion!

I don't think he's a step slow. I think he's trying to do too much, and there's a big difference. It's better to stay in position and do your job then to try and do too much and end up looking bad for overcompensating...

steeltheone
12-22-2009, 07:27 PM
This is exactly why I did not want to get rid of Foote. Two reasons were Foote and Farrior were one brain. The other, Farrior had 2 years left in him. This year and next year. And with Timmons playing as the 5th LB last year and being extremely effective, why change it. Besides, Timmons isnt a middle LB. He is a will or sam pass rusher. He is out of position.

Just what we need, another 31 year old on this Defense. We are way To OLD up front. Other than Ziggy the backups are TO OLD. This was ok when we were at the top. Now we are midfield. If your gonna be a 500 club you do it with young players.

markymarc
12-23-2009, 11:13 AM
This is exactly why I did not want to get rid of Foote. Two reasons were Foote and Farrior were one brain. The other, Farrior had 2 years left in him. This year and next year. And with Timmons playing as the 5th LB last year and being extremely effective, why change it. Besides, Timmons isnt a middle LB. He is a will or sam pass rusher. He is out of position.

Yea because you know Larry Foote would be resolving all of our defensive issues. And explain to me how exactly bringing back Larry Foote would make this defense so much better?