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View Full Version : Our Secondary or Arians?


dyce22
12-23-2009, 07:37 AM
I know a lot of people are divided on this one. Which one deserves the most credit for our losses; our secondary, or Bruce Arians? People will make the argument that Arians' play-calling has nothing to do with our breakdown in the secondary, but I would disagree. My opinion is that Arians' is not the whole, but the MAIN reason we are struggling. I say this simply because the offensive game plan is too simple. People offer suggestions like, "Run Mendy more"...and the opposition to that says, "If it's not working, you can't run". This is simple. You run the ball to set up misdirection plays and play-action plays...regardless if the run is actually netting 4, 5 yards a carry. The problem with our offense?...well, for one, we are NOT running the ball enough. But, the second, and most important element is that we are NOT calling play-action, or misdirection plays at ALL this season. If the run is only netting 3.3 yards a carry...so what? I'm not saying run the ball 30 times with an average like that...but you run the ball enough so that you can call a play-action pass on first down and make the linebackers freeze...setting up a throw over the top. The problem is, we're not calling enough running plays to make anyone fear the run...and we're not calling enough play-action passes period. Straight drop-backs seem to be Arians' main design...and while that may be effective sometimes, the play-action, and misdirection plays add an element of surprise. If you take a look at the GB game, we called more play-action and misdirection plays than we have all season. Yes, we still only managed to win on a last-second catch, but we also netted a hell of a lot of yards.

Now, the way this affects our secondary is easily explained. If the offense is constantly stagnant, and the defense is constantly on the field...how long before they get tired, and/or feel hopeless? Also, how long before the opponent's offense learns our tendencies and exploits them?

supa_fly_steeler
12-23-2009, 07:44 AM
games like the browns, arians and some special teams, games like the bengals at home Arians.

I would Keep Arians around as an assiant offensive co-ordinator, but id rather someone else call more exotic plays.

GoSlash27
12-23-2009, 08:22 AM
Still gotta go with Arians. The win against Green Bay owed more to GB's secondary doing an impersonation of our secondary than any brilliance on Bruce's part.
The secondary is still looking rotten, but they always do when they're that badly exposed. 3-4 zones are always weak in the secondary when the front fails to bring pressure.

HometownGal
12-23-2009, 08:22 AM
The Steelers D, without a shadow of a doubt, is the culprit imho. In all but a couple of games, the Steelers O put up enough points to win only to have the D melt down in the second half - primarily the 4Q - which resulted in at least 4 (probably 5) of their losses. Yes, we lost to the Raiders and Chiefs, but Arians O put up 27 points in each of those games, only to helplessly watch from the sidelines as the Steelers D blew leads again in the 4Q's. The only loss this season that I can directly pin on the O is the loss to the Browns on December 10th and maybe the Bungles game on November 15th when the O could only muster 4 FG's, but again - the D gave up 2 FG's to the Bungles in the last 7-1/2 minutes of that game which sealed the W for the Bungles.

Dylan
12-23-2009, 08:26 AM
games like the browns, arians and some special teams, games like the bengals at home Arians.

I would Keep Arians around as an assiant offensive co-ordinator, but id rather someone else call more exotic plays.

i think it would be a mistake to keep arians if we dont want him as an offensive coordinator for a couple reasons

1. Big Ben loves Arians and possibly could listen to him more than the new offensive coordinator

2. I dont think arians would except a demotion and if he did he probably would still try to give plays to roethlisberger

ljk2442
12-23-2009, 09:24 AM
I have been one that has bashed Arians for three years now, well low and behold i believe we need to move in a different direction cough cough Charlie Weis, Jim Zorn, or another OC.... BUT... Everyone remembers our super bowl season last year... we did not blow teams out! yes the schedule was very difficult, but we did not blow teams out... every single game was very close and often played to the wire.... but in our big wins last season our defense caused very crucial turnovers! We can't blame it on our Line Backers this year.. they still bring the heat... OUR secondary is not the same around troy... Troy had 7 interceptions last season, and had a huge one in the AFC Champ game last season... Tyrone Carter is awful! did everyone see ryan grant blow past him last week? Did you see Carter miss a tackle and watch greg jennings go 83 yards! Our Corners rely on troys help over the middle... we simply lack the personel to defend speed and the deep ball...

PLUS! nooone remembers that Bryant McFadden was clearly a shutdown corner, and William Gay flourished covering guys in the slot... Deshea Townsend cannot cover players in the slot... he is too slow... Remember the Chiefs game in overtime???? Chris Chambers blew past Deshea leading to the loss!

The Personel of the secondary is the reason why the Pittsburgh Steelers lost to the following teams this year: The Bears, The Bengels BOTH GAMES, The Cheifs, The Raiders, The Ravens....

HOPE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM! ITS THE SAME PROBLEM THAT PREVENTED THE STEELERS FROM SUPER BOWL APPEARENCES EARLIER IN THIS DECA DE! every one remembers when freakin drew bledsoe came in andtainted us in the 4th qtr in i think it 2001.....

GOD BLESS, GO STEELERS

cubanstogie
12-23-2009, 10:02 AM
I have been one that has bashed Arians for three years now, well low and behold i believe we need to move in a different direction cough cough Charlie Weis, Jim Zorn, or another OC.... BUT... Everyone remembers our super bowl season last year... we did not blow teams out! yes the schedule was very difficult, but we did not blow teams out... every single game was very close and often played to the wire.... but in our big wins last season our defense caused very crucial turnovers! We can't blame it on our Line Backers this year.. they still bring the heat... OUR secondary is not the same around troy... Troy had 7 interceptions last season, and had a huge one in the AFC Champ game last season... Tyrone Carter is awful! did everyone see ryan grant blow past him last week? Did you see Carter miss a tackle and watch greg jennings go 83 yards! Our Corners rely on troys help over the middle... we simply lack the personel to defend speed and the deep ball...

PLUS! nooone remembers that Bryant McFadden was clearly a shutdown corner, and William Gay flourished covering guys in the slot... Deshea Townsend cannot cover players in the slot... he is too slow... Remember the Chiefs game in overtime???? Chris Chambers blew past Deshea leading to the loss!

The Personel of the secondary is the reason why the Pittsburgh Steelers lost to the following teams this year: The Bears, The Bengels BOTH GAMES, The Cheifs, The Raiders, The Ravens....

HOPE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM! ITS THE SAME PROBLEM THAT PREVENTED THE STEELERS FROM SUPER BOWL APPEARENCES EARLIER IN THIS DECA DE! every one remembers when freakin drew bledsoe came in andtainted us in the 4th qtr in i think it 2001.....

GOD BLESS, GO STEELERS

most accurate post I have read in a long time. Very well said.

Men of Steel
12-23-2009, 11:24 AM
as much as i dislike BA..... :banging:

i have to go with most of the blame on our secondary. :doh:

last year the steelers were top 1 or 2 stopping the pass if im not mistaken.

and anyone can clearly see that, despite all the missed opportunities by our offense in the red zone, and the horrid play calling, this years offense is much more dangerous.

ben is having his best season statistically (just came off a 500+ yd/ 3 td game)
hines and holmes both over 1000+ yds. (both SB MVPs)
mike wallace + heath miller both over 600+ yds
mendy over 1000+ yds rushing.

NOW JUST IMAGINE IF WE HAD THIS OFFENSE WITH LAST YEARS DEFENSE !!!!!!!
last year our defense bailed us out of everygame. keeping the teams down below 10 points in almost each game. it was just up to the offense to score on the last drive to take a lead and win it.

this year the offense can score at will.... but the defense cant impose ITS will on the other offenses. :doh:

ask me again...
exactly... i blame the secondary...... :coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Have you ever thought it was the lack of a pass rush that is giving the opposing QB's time to complete passes?? Or the lack of Troy being in the game to make plays?? The Grant TD never happens if Polamalu is on the field......Grant ran around Carter like David Garrard did 2 years ago in the wildcard game.

I blame lack of a pass rush, due to the absence of Smith and Polamalu(and lack of decent backups for both of those players). Arians offenses are designed to put up yardage in the air, but not grind out the tough yards on the ground in bad weather....nothing new, but its pretty obvious the D hasnt played well in a while.

Bobby_Walden
12-23-2009, 12:01 PM
I don't like BA. Never have. Not when he was with Cleveland, not with us.

Having said that...

Our DB's rot.

Carter is a backup - watching him run around and never get in on a tackle makes me laugh. It's like he is jogging around working out. Ike is playing bad this year, really looks lost. Gay is surprisingly bad...it really looked like he could handle being a starter. He can not.

We need to draft a shutdown CB in rd 1. Then a D lineman in rd 2. I would then go CB in rd 3. Our coverage is that bad.

I don't like our pass happy O. But we usually score enough to win.

Stlrs4Life
12-23-2009, 12:03 PM
Both need revamped.

markymarc
12-23-2009, 01:16 PM
The majority of my blame goes with the defense and especially our secondary. And then Bruce Arians would be second IMO. Both areas need to be addressed in the off season!

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-23-2009, 11:36 PM
Have you ever thought it was the lack of a pass rush that is giving the opposing QB's time to complete passes?? Or the lack of Troy being in the game to make plays?? The Grant TD never happens if Polamalu is on the field......Grant ran around Carter like David Garrard did 2 years ago in the wildcard game.

I blame lack of a pass rush, due to the absence of Smith and Polamalu(and lack of decent backups for both of those players). Arians offenses are designed to put up yardage in the air, but not grind out the tough yards on the ground in bad weather....nothing new, but its pretty obvious the D hasnt played well in a while.

Lack of a pass rush? We are ranked 2nd in the league in sacks right now at 40....we would have LOTS more, but teams this year are using quick strike passes against us and our secondary is still not able to stop them....

tony hipchest
12-23-2009, 11:54 PM
troy polamalu is 10X more important to this team than bruce arians.

the only chance bruce arians has of seeing the hall of fame is when bill cowher hires him to coordinate the browns offense, next season. (= never)

troy will ride the "yellow jacket" express to canton, 5 years after he retires.

guys like arians are a dime a dozen, million $/year employees. polamalu is a once in a generation player.

he is this decades payton manning of defense. he has as many rings as lawrence taylor, and 1 more than reggie white.

i dare anyone to name any defender of the 90's cowboys or 00 chatriots who had as much of an impact.

troy matters.

arians = wisenhunt or mularkey (with less scoring).

cubanstogie
12-24-2009, 09:56 AM
troy polamalu is 10X more important to this team than bruce arians.

the only chance bruce arians has of seeing the hall of fame is when bill cowher hires him to coordinate the browns offense, next season. (= never)

troy will ride the "yellow jacket" express to canton, 5 years after he retires.

guys like arians are a dime a dozen, million $/year employees. polamalu is a once in a generation player.

he is this decades payton manning of defense. he has as many rings as lawrence taylor, and 1 more than reggie white.

i dare anyone to name any defender of the 90's cowboys or 00 chatriots who had as much of an impact.

troy matters.

arians = wisenhunt or mularkey (with less scoring).

Charles Haley comes to mind. I don't think anyone would compare Arians to Troy as far as importance to team. The problem with an impact player is to be an impact he must be on the field. Troy has won a couple of games for us this year alone by himself, but I don't think he can be put in the same category of Peyton of D's until he he is more consistent. Troy has a couple of all pro years, Peyton has 10.I do agree Troy matters a ton, its obvious he carried our secondary.

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Lack of a pass rush? We are ranked 2nd in the league in sacks right now at 40....we would have LOTS more, but teams this year are using quick strike passes against us and our secondary is still not able to stop them....

Sorry, but I dont hang my opinions on stats entirely and just looking at sack numbers without recognizing pressures and hits on the QB is only looking at half the picture.

I just know that from this year to last year, the Steelers pressured opposing QB's more, collapsed the pocket more consistently and made them uncomfortable. You can tell that by watching the games, but if you like stats so much how about these sack numbers:

vs. OAK.....2 sacks-18yards
vs. CLE......1 sack
vs. CHI........2 sacks- 5 yds
vs. CIN........2 sacks (Nov 15)
vs. CIN........2 sacks- 4 yds (sept 27)

a quick glance at 5 games that we never got more than 2 sacks and guess what????? we lost them all. THAT is AMAZING QB PRESSURE huh?

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-24-2009, 11:36 AM
it's almost impossible for myself to chose one or the other because i think both of them have cost us some games but it is probably the secondary has cost us the most

Here is the funny thing about football........its a team game. Nobody can hang a loss on one coach, player or aspect of the game. While some or all may deserve blame, its generally gonna be a number of things that contribute to a win or loss.

In short............both.

Preacher
12-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Here is the funny thing about football........its a team game. Nobody can hang a loss on one coach, player or aspect of the game. While some or all may deserve blame, its generally gonna be a number of things that contribute to a win or loss.

In short............both.

Exactly. Thank you.