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mesaSteeler
12-28-2009, 04:52 PM
Big Ben goes on offense
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1501/2009/december/28/big-ben-goes-on-offense.html
By: Andrew Chiapazzi
Beaver County Times

Monday December 28, 2009 12:04 AM

PITTSBURGH — In Ben Roethlisberger’s mind, the numbers say it all.

For the first time in team history, the Steelers have a quarterback with more than 4,000 yards passing, a 1,000-yard rusher and a pair of 1,000-yard receivers in the same season.

That, the quarterback says, should be enough to back off critics calling for the head of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Roethlisberger is the first Steelers quarterback to go over 4,000 yards for a season, as he has 4,108 after his 259-yard performance on Sunday. But outside of using it as ammunition to defend his offensive coordinator, Roethlisberger says the achievement doesn’t hold much weight for him.

“It’s an honor, but to me it’s not about that,” he said. “It never has been the individual awards, accolades, or honors for me: It’s about this team winning.”
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Roethlisberger went on to say that at this point, even the manner in which a game is won doesn’t matter for a team fighting for its playoff lives.

“We’ve been do-or-die for a while now. We fight to the last minute. I think we’re the cardiac kids or something,” Roethlisberger said. “We’re out here barely winning these games, but a win is a win. It doesn’t matter how you get it.”

This one featured Roethlisberger’s record as well as Rashard Mendenhall earning his first 1,000-rushing yard season with 36 yards on 17 carries. Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were already over 1,000 yards receiving entering the game. This is also the first time in team history that three receivers have 70 or more receptions in a season, as Heath Miller’s three catches Sunday gave him a career-high 71. Ward has 87 and Holmes has 78 for the year.

“It’s great, statistically,” Ward said. “I won Super Bowls where we didn’t have that. This business is all about wins and losses and that’s all we really focus on. It’s something to look back and reflect on, but just because you have all that doesn’t bring a championship.”

eafratitpm3
12-28-2009, 05:00 PM
“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Yeah it was really potent against the Raiders, Chiefs, & Browns huh? I would like to know how many teams this year didn't score a TD against the Browns.

stillers4me
12-28-2009, 05:04 PM
It sounds to me like a last, desparate attempt to save BA from the axe.

Stats are for losers, Ben. And guess what...........?

slippy
12-28-2009, 05:56 PM
the O is high in yardage but average in scoring.

the game is about points, not real estate.

Preacher
12-28-2009, 06:09 PM
“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Yeah it was really potent against the Raiders, Chiefs, & Browns huh? I would like to know how many teams this year didn't score a TD against the Browns.

Sigh.

It was VERY potent against the Raiders..don't you remember them going up and down the field.. or scoring 24 points.. or scoring 24 points against KC?

Why people continue to give our defense a pass for letting over 24 points be scored on them, but berate our offense for scoring the equivalent of 3 TD's and a field goal in a game is beyond me.

And no, the defense scored nor points in either of those games.

24 points... and we lost? Sorry, that is the problem of the defense.

Preacher
12-28-2009, 06:23 PM
the O is high in yardage but average in scoring.

the game is about points, not real estate.

well, we are 13th in scoring. Keeping in mind that includes a game without our QB at the helm AND a horrendous game at the Browns, that is actually pretty dang good.

I am sorry, but to me, 13th in scoring, when we are supposed to have the best defense and defensive coordinator in the NFL, should be WAY MORE than enough points to have gone 14-2 this year (1 game without Ben, and that horrendous Browns game).

Nope. This year, I lay the blame on the defense. NOT on the offense. Arians screwed up the game against the Browns and exposed some real weaknesses that need to be addressed. But our season's failures fall squarely on the shoulders of the defense.

Last year, the offense struggled. The defense saved it throughout the game, but at the end of a game, the offense came THROUGH more likely than not.

This year, our defense struggled, but the offense kept us in the game right up until the end in almost every game. However, the defense DID NOT come through in the end to make the stops necessary.

And don't give me Troy P. and Aaron. Last year, we lost half our line, our top two running backs, our HOF bound wide receiver in the playoffs, our QB was injured, our young stud WR was suspended for a game, and to top it all off, Ben had to get used to a new center...again.

Yet we give a pass to the defense because they lose 2 players in the season?

Angus Burgher
12-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Sigh.

It was VERY potent against the Raiders..don't you remember them going up and down the field.. or scoring 24 points.. or scoring 24 points against KC?

Why people continue to give our defense a pass for letting over 24 points be scored on them, but berate our offense for scoring the equivalent of 3 TD's and a field goal in a game is beyond me.

And no, the defense scored nor points in either of those games.

24 points... and we lost? Sorry, that is the problem of the defense.

I've been saying this all season, but people never listen. Apparently the defense is allowed to give up as many points as possible so that the offense needs to score a touchdown on every single possession. Oh, but the offense also needs to eat up about 15 minutes PER drive, so that the defense is never on the field, since you know, they could get tired.

It really is ridiculous. People want to blame Arians for our losses this season because they're too afraid to admit that the Mighty Steeler Defense is the problem and Dick LaBeau's schemes rely a bit too heavily on the two guys who have been missing the majority of this season.

I'll admit, Arians and the offensive coaches have screwed up from time to time (particularly when it comes to running plays) but they helped Ben and the boys put points on the board. The only games where the offense was terrible were the Cleveland game and the second Cincy game.

mikegrimey
12-28-2009, 07:10 PM
The stats for the Steelers offense seem a little misleading to me.

Sure, they do pack on a good amount of yardage, and have a lot of big plays. Yet every game I watch they lack consistency and stall more than any team wants to in the redzone.

They can't run in the redzone either which is a killer. Really, we have a difficult time being consistent running period.
The most consistent offensive game we had this year was against San Diego. All the rest there are bursts and flourishes of greatness, but for every amazing drive BA calls there seems to be a lot of lame ducks.

I'm interested as to what are average 3rd down to go average is too because a lot of games I seem to see Ben and the playmaking receiving corp bailing us out on third and long.

KartSteel
12-28-2009, 07:13 PM
It's funny,

My friend & I were talking about the fact that we've scored enough points to win in almost every game this season other than three I believe. The reasons why we have lost, I agree, would have to be the defense not getting it done like there were last year. The biggest complaint we have is that we are not imaginative enough when we get into the read zone on offense. That & I think being sloppy on offense are my biggest complaint. If we can just sneak into the playoffs with a healthy Troy, I think we the defense will pick it up though as well.

Preacher
12-28-2009, 07:15 PM
The stats for the Steelers offense seem a little misleading to me.

Sure, they do pack on a good amount of yardage, and have a lot of big plays. Yet every game I watch they lack consistency and stall more than any team wants to in the redzone.

They can't run in the redzone either which is a killer. Really, we have a difficult time being consistent running period.
The most consistent offensive game we had this year was against San Diego. All the rest there are bursts and flourishes of greatness, but for every amazing drive BA calls there seems to be a lot of lame ducks.

I'm interested as to what are average 3rd down to go average is too because a lot of games I seem to see Ben and the playmaking receiving corp bailing us out on third and long.

Who cares whether it is 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 20. If the conversion percentage is the same, then who cares how far back it is? Here is where the "Steeler mentality" hits reality. 3rd and 6 as opposed to 3rd and three is a killer in the old way of Steeler football. However, in a pass offense, there isn't much difference between the two.

What I would like to see, is the CONVERSION PERCENTAGE on them.

devilsdancefloor
12-28-2009, 07:26 PM
Here is my 1 and only complaint about the offense... we run when we should throw and throw when we should be running. (that delayed draw should be taken out of the play book YUK). The steelers D has been a very big disappointment to say the least! This is why we lost so many of the games we lost. If you cant man up and see that than i feel sorry for you. How many double digit leads have we lost in the 2nd half of games? a really good example is the SD game we thumped them for 3 quarters and barely hung on. Maybe it is troy maybe it is coach dad not trusting carter :noidea: , but i dont think the teams have figured him out i think between the confusion of our secondary he doesnt trust the D to play his schemes. Sunday is the first game i can remember seeing Ike blitz.

smokin3000gt
12-28-2009, 07:56 PM
“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Yeah it was really potent against the Raiders, Chiefs, & Browns huh? I would like to know how many teams this year didn't score a TD against the Browns.

Good point. :jerkit:

Defense has to keep the other team off the board! Seriously, you expect these guys to march up and down the field scoring at will? Only one team can do that, and that's the mighty tape wielding patriots.

We haven't been blown out 2-3 TD's. We've lost the majority of our games by 3 points. THREE POINTS!

Take a look at these sucky numbers..

Total offensive yards:

Colts: 5652
Us: 5538

We're moving the ball but holy shit.. we need some help from our defense keeping points off the board. How many snaps did we have in the 3rd QTR against the ravens, I think 4?

And it doesn't help that the other team constantly start their drive at the 50 because a 40yd run back is a gimme.

Missed field goals, BA is the least of our problems right now..

X-Terminator
12-28-2009, 08:00 PM
The red zone offense and at times inconsistent playcalling has been my biggest beef with Arians. Otherwise, I can't complain about the numbers the O has put up. Yeah, they're 13th in points scored and I think that's a direct result of their red zone problems, but they've still scored enough points to win every game except 2.

Time to put more of the blame where it belongs for the situation that they're in - on the defense.

(Cue the usual suspects to come in and drop in their 2 cents about how much Arians sucks. God forbid anyone say anything positive about the man.)

Preacher
12-28-2009, 08:03 PM
The red zone offense and at times inconsistent playcalling has been my biggest beef with Arians. Otherwise, I can't complain about the numbers the O has put up. Yeah, they're 13th in points scored and I think that's a direct result of their red zone problems, but they've still scored enough points to win every game except 2.

Time to put more of the blame where it belongs for the situation that they're in - on the defense.

(Cue the usual suspects to come in and drop in their 2 cents about how much Arians sucks. God forbid anyone say anything positive about the man.)

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

HometownGal
12-28-2009, 08:10 PM
I've been saying this all season, but people never listen. Apparently the defense is allowed to give up as many points as possible so that the offense needs to score a touchdown on every single possession. Oh, but the offense also needs to eat up about 15 minutes PER drive, so that the defense is never on the field, since you know, they could get tired.

It really is ridiculous. People want to blame Arians for our losses this season because they're too afraid to admit that the Mighty Steeler Defense is the problem and Dick LaBeau's schemes rely a bit too heavily on the two guys who have been missing the majority of this season. :applaudit: :applaudit: :thumbsup:

I'll admit, Arians and the offensive coaches have screwed up from time to time (particularly when it comes to running plays) but they helped Ben and the boys put points on the board. The only games where the offense was terrible were the Cleveland game and the second Cincy game.

Excellent post and spot on. :drink: :thumbsup:

“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”


I used to laugh right along with ya, Ben, but I've gotten to the point where I actually feel a sense of pity for these people.

HometownGal
12-28-2009, 08:12 PM
God forbid anyone say anything positive about the man.)

Or anything negative about the mighty Steelers D who put this team in the desperate position they are in.

MasterOfPuppets
12-28-2009, 08:16 PM
Sigh.

It was VERY potent against the Raiders..don't you remember them going up and down the field.. or scoring 24 points.. or scoring 24 points against KC?

Why people continue to give our defense a pass for letting over 24 points be scored on them, but berate our offense for scoring the equivalent of 3 TD's and a field goal in a game is beyond me.

And no, the defense scored nor points in either of those games.

24 points... and we lost? Sorry, that is the problem of the defense.
considering KC's average is giving up 26.7 points a game and oaklands 23.9 ...24 points is hardly an impressive feat. .... when you look at the steelers stats an old cliche comes to mind ..."all bark and no bite" ...:coffee:

tony hipchest
12-28-2009, 08:18 PM
i think the offensive game arians has called in the past 2 weeks has been the correct one. i also think the "wing and a prayer" offense we saw in the past 2 weeks woulda been more effective (and the games alot less closer) if we woulda used the run to "set up the pass" against weak teams such as the raiders, chiefs, and browns.

tony hipchest
12-28-2009, 08:23 PM
Or anything negative about the mighty Steelers D who put this team in the desperate position they are in.i dont recall ANYONE calling this defense "mighty" without troy or smith.

with them, they are one of the most dominant ones of this decade, having won more championships than anyone else who hasnt relied on cheating.

but then again, i guess the cheating patriot players still had to 'execute' too.

tony hipchest
12-28-2009, 08:28 PM
considering KC's average is giving up 26.7 points a game and oaklands 23.9 ...24 points is hardly an impressive feat. .... when you look at the steelers stats an old cliche comes to mind ..."all bark and no bite" ...:coffee:dont forget that the steelers defense is blamed for bens 1st and goal interceptions thrown into the endzone and KO returns for td's.

(i give wallace a pass on the cheap fumble after a long rec as it was a rookie mistake he easily atoned for).

mikegrimey
12-28-2009, 08:37 PM
Who cares whether it is 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 20. If the conversion percentage is the same, then who cares how far back it is? Here is where the "Steeler mentality" hits reality. 3rd and 6 as opposed to 3rd and three is a killer in the old way of Steeler football. However, in a pass offense, there isn't much difference between the two.

What I would like to see, is the CONVERSION PERCENTAGE on them.


I think the distance to go is very important. It limits our ability to get easy first downs and manage the clock and control the tempo of the games.

Now yea, a 3rd and 3 compared to a 3rd and 6 may not seem like much of a difference, but it will certainly affect a team's ability to convert. Who wouldn't, if you asked, want a 3rd and 2 over a 3rd and 9?

I don't know what you mean about the 'old steelers mentality' really. I'm not about running on 1st and 2nd down and throwing 20-25 times a game. It's good to be flexible on offense and be able to run and pass effectively and there are certain teams that running isn't even a legitimate option against. But, the play syou do call on first and second down, whether running or passing, should get enough yardage to make those third downs a lot easier.

My remark about our average 3rd to go distance was because I see a lot of drives where Ben and the receivers bail out some bad running plays or weird passing plays on first and second down.

tony hipchest
12-28-2009, 08:55 PM
Who cares whether it is 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 20. If the conversion percentage is the same, then who cares how far back it is? Here is where the "Steeler mentality" hits reality. 3rd and 6 as opposed to 3rd and three is a killer in the old way of Steeler football. However, in a pass offense, there isn't much difference between the two.

What I would like to see, is the CONVERSION PERCENTAGE on them.damn. i guess i missed this post earlier.

talk about throwing Football 101 out the window...

Preacher, 2 years ago (back when our offense was much, MUCH more balanced) i believe we led the league in 3rd down and long conversions. (long being 6 or 7 yards, i cant remember which).

of course that was when tomlin still had a 'run the wheels off willie' mentality, and the steelers still had a rb that led the league in carries per game.

GridironWarrior
12-28-2009, 08:59 PM
I knew Ben would support Bruce cause if Ben had his way all he would do is throw the ball. They need balance.

mesaSteeler
12-28-2009, 09:02 PM
damn. i guess i missed this post earlier.

talk about throwing Football 101 out the window...

Preacher, 2 years ago (back when our offense was much, MUCH more balanced) i believe we led the league in 3rd down and long conversions. (long being 6 or 7 yards, i cant remember which).

of course that was when tomlin still had a 'run the wheels off willie' mentality, and the steelers still had a rb that led the league in carries per game.

Good argument! :applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

eafratitpm3
12-28-2009, 11:07 PM
Sigh.

It was VERY potent against the Raiders..don't you remember them going up and down the field.. or scoring 24 points.. or scoring 24 points against KC?

Why people continue to give our defense a pass for letting over 24 points be scored on them, but berate our offense for scoring the equivalent of 3 TD's and a field goal in a game is beyond me.

And no, the defense scored nor points in either of those games.

24 points... and we lost? Sorry, that is the problem of the defense.

Okay, I'll give you the that we scored 24 in both those games but it was the Chiefs and Raiders. How do you explain the Cleveland game? Our offense started with a P in that game but it wasn't POTENT, I would say PATHETIC. I'm not debating that our Defense has been putrid all season without Troy but with a "Potent" offense as Ben put it you can't loose 3 games to those teams and not score one TD against the Browns.

augustashark
12-28-2009, 11:19 PM
[B]
“It’s great, statistically,” Ward said. “I won Super Bowls where we didn’t have that. This business is all about wins and losses and that’s all we really focus on. It’s something to look back and reflect on, but just because you have all that doesn’t bring a championship.”

This is the only thing worth a damn in the article. The rest was just fluff. You know like having your very own fluffer!:drink:

LVSteelersfan
12-28-2009, 11:20 PM
Sorry, but Arians is still to blame for kicking field goal after field goal after field goal. We have absolutely fantastic receivers, yet he continues to run that stupid empty backfield play over and over and over and Ben seems to get sacked on that play over and over and over. It is just stupidity. All he needs to do is keep a blocker back there and give Ben enough time to get it to one of those thousand yard receivers or Miller. But NO, let's run the empty backfield set and get Ben sacked in the red zone AGAIN. The defense sucked but there is absolutely no reason to kick field goals so much when we march right down the field with ease. It is stupid. I am not totally blaming Arians, but he needs to be given the blame for the red zone woes. We have absolutely fantastic offensive talent. The moron Arians has no idea how to use it.

fansince'76
12-28-2009, 11:21 PM
That, the quarterback says, should be enough to back off critics calling for the head of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

Sure, Ben, sure. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

fansince'76
12-28-2009, 11:27 PM
Stats are for losers, Ben. And guess what...........?

Really? Funny, because all I kept hearing ad nauseam after winning a Super Bowl last year was how our offense only ranked 22nd in the league.

steelersalaska
12-28-2009, 11:30 PM
I'm not feeling inclined to talk about our D being less effective then it was last year... (this is a "Ben" thread), nor am I implying anything against Arians sometimes erratic play calling schemes... (again this is a Ben thread) but....

I do feel that if, maybe, Mendy had 1,300 or 1,500 yards on the year, that with the talent of this offense and the benefits of quote "balance" that Hines might also have 1,300 yards receiving and Tone 1,500. Yes I believe that the run sets up the pass. I also believe that when the run sets up the pass the quarterback will prosper with longevity vs. a 4 sack average per game. For what ever it's worth... 2 cents is just that.

LVSteelersfan
12-28-2009, 11:31 PM
Ben is not helping Arians cause much. How many stupid picks has he thrown in the red zone this year. I love Ben but that is the one thing that drives me absolutely crazy about him. Brady and Manning rarely throw picks down there. That is why they are considered the two best in the league. If Ben could just quit doing that one thing, he would be right up there with them.

Once again, I have to say I have no problem with Arians until we get into the red zone. His playcalling down there is mystifying and moronic.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-28-2009, 11:44 PM
This year, Ben has thrown 3 picks in the redzone. Brady has thrown 2. Peyton has thrown 1. Really not that big of a difference.

fansince'76
12-28-2009, 11:47 PM
This year, Ben has thrown 3 picks in the redzone. Brady has thrown 2. Peyton has thrown 1. Really not that big of a difference.

Even less of a difference when the one batted up like a volleyball by Heath in the Chiefs game wasn't really Ben's fault. The real difference is Ben isn't sucked off endlessly by the media.

Preacher
12-28-2009, 11:57 PM
damn. i guess i missed this post earlier.

talk about throwing Football 101 out the window...

Preacher, 2 years ago (back when our offense was much, MUCH more balanced) i believe we led the league in 3rd down and long conversions. (long being 6 or 7 yards, i cant remember which).

of course that was when tomlin still had a 'run the wheels off willie' mentality, and the steelers still had a rb that led the league in carries per game.

Tony.. Please read my post IN CONTEXT

I'm interested as to what are average 3rd down to go average is too because a lot of games I seem to see Ben and the playmaking receiving corp bailing us out on third and long.

Was the quote I was responding to.

My POST was to the effect that, I don't care if they are making the conversions from a short or a long distance. It is whether they are MAKING them or not that matters.

Context please... context.

Preacher
12-29-2009, 12:01 AM
Okay, I'll give you the that we scored 24 in both those games but it was the Chiefs and Raiders. How do you explain the Cleveland game? Our offense started with a P in that game but it wasn't POTENT, I would say PATHETIC. I'm not debating that our Defense has been putrid all season without Troy but with a "Potent" offense as Ben put it you can't loose 3 games to those teams and not score one TD against the Browns.


The Cleveland game was horrible.

That is 1 horrible game.

I'll even throw in the second Bengals game.

So, we are talking about 2 out of 16 games where the offense was very much below par.

All in all, if you would tell me that at the beginning of the year, the offense will have 2 bad games... I would have said fine. No problem, I'll take it.

The PROBLEM is, our defense couldn't bail us out of the other 5 games, even AFTER our offense bailed out the defense.

VegasStlrFan
12-29-2009, 01:22 AM
The offense sucks in scoring from the red zone which always keeps the game in reach, and the Defense sucks in defending the pass which also keeps the game in reach. Doesn't matter, fix one and we win.

Who cares about the Stats.

Gnutella
12-29-2009, 02:33 AM
There are five reasons why we rank sixth in yards and 13th in points: Situational play-calling, poor starting field position, a lack of takeaways by the defense, untimely penalties, and unnecessary sacks taken by Ben Roethlisberger.

I've been a critic of Bruce Arians, but maybe, just maybe, the scheme is workable. The real problem here is situational play-calling. I really don't mind the foundation of the offense, especially since it's been proven to work before. What I do mind, however, is that Arians hasn't been able to call the plays correctly on a consistent basis -- and particularly on third downs and in the red zone. Taking threes instead of sevens will deflate a team's scoring statistics.

Another reason our scoring output doesn't match our yardage output is because we're always starting inside our own 20-yard line whenever our opponent punts. Everybody b*tches about the punt and kick coverage, and that's perfectly justified, but the punt returns are pretty sh*tty too. (Why do you think we've been experimenting with PRs lately?) Basically, more often than not, we have to move the ball farther than normal to get into scoring position.

A lack of takeaways by the defense doesn't help matters either. Forcing turnovers can create short fields for the offense, yet our defense has only forced 19 of them yet. That's just over one per game, and far below what I consider to be acceptable by our defense.

There's also the issue of untimely penalties. We don't commit a whole ton of penalties, but it's when they're committed that bites us in the ass. This has particularly been a problem for the offensive line and the WRs. And don't cry "conspiracy" either, because that's the mantra of LOSERS. We've had plenty of big plays wiped out by holding penalties -- the WRs are guilty too -- and that puts us into long-yardage situations we don't want to be in.

Of course, Roethlisberger still holds onto the ball too long sometimes. Honestly, I'd like to see him run for a few yards if he has to; I've noticed that Aaron Rodgers has been doing that more lately, and he hasn't been taking as many sacks as the season progresses. There's nothing wrong with him picking up a couple of yards with his feet sometimes. Aside from taking about 20 unnecessary sacks, however, he's the steady rock upon which our offense is built.

There are still a few minor glitches to correct, but if they're corrected, then maybe people will notice that, yeah, our QB and our offense are pretty damn good.