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View Full Version : Retire Clemente's 21??


SteelerDan43
01-30-2006, 07:55 PM
There is an ongoing coo about wether or not to retire Roberto Clemente's 21 league wide. Jackie Robinson's daughter says it should only be her father who has the distinction of having his number retired and that Clemente did not go through what her father did so he should not have his number retired. I think they should retire Clemente's number also, he did for hispanics what Robinson did for african americans... Clemente is an icon of the hispanic community. People will say he didn't recieve the amount of racial abuse Robinson did but lets remeber when Clemente came into the league because he could barely speak any english was basically treated like a baseball playing monkey when in reality he was very a very articulate man who just didnt know english. Also lets not forget his humanitarian contributions that eventually brought his untimely death... Lets retire 21!!!

SteelerDan43
01-30-2006, 07:57 PM
Clemente's Son
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2312580

Robinson's Daughter
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2304057

Suitanim
01-30-2006, 08:38 PM
Ridiculous. If the black community spent 1/1000th of it's energy promoting itself that it instead spends tearing down other minorities and themselves, this would be a completely moot point.

3 to be 4
01-30-2006, 09:19 PM
Ridiculous. If the black community spent 1/1000th of it's energy promoting itself that it instead spends tearing down other minorities and themselves, this would be a completely moot point.


whoa. this was Jackie Robinsons daughter saying this idiocy, not the "Black Community"

Stlrs4Life
02-18-2006, 04:30 PM
Ridiculous. If the black community spent 1/1000th of it's energy promoting itself that it instead spends tearing down other minorities and themselves, this would be a completely moot point.


Clemente wasn't black. He was Puerto Rican.


My favorite player growing up as a kid. Glad I got to see him play.

Zez
03-01-2006, 10:18 AM
Retire it....bottom line.

RoethlisBURGHer
03-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Here is the difference:

Robinson broke the color-barrier.Thanks to him,persons of any color were then able to play in MLB,not just white people.He was not just the first black person the play MLB,he was also the first minority,

Clemente wasn't the first hispanic player in MLB,however he is the most well known and celebrated.He was a great baseball player,and if he hadn't died then he could have possibly become the greatest.But you don't see MLB retiring the number of every great player that died due to something tragic.

This is why I voted no.It can easily get out of hand,because then there would be people wanting the most- celebrated-whatever-heritage player of a ton of different heritages retired,and retiring Clemente's 21 would open the door to force MLB to do that.

I think a better decision would be to give every team the choice to retire Clemente's number.If they want to,then they do...if not then that's fine.But if MLB imposes it on every team,it just opens the flood gates and may never end.

SteelerDan43
03-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Without Clemente the latin player is no where near as far along. In latin countries he is what Babe Ruth is to whites and Jackie Robinson is to blacks...

RoethlisBURGHer
03-02-2006, 06:31 PM
Without Clemente the latin player is no where near as far along. In latin countries he is what Babe Ruth is to whites and Jackie Robinson is to blacks...

While I agree with this statement,he wasn't the first latin player to play in the majors.He is the most celebrated however.

Also,would he be looked upon the same way if he hadn't died in such a tragic way?Personally,I don't think so.

SteelerDan43
03-02-2006, 07:05 PM
Ok well I will respectfully disagree lol...

RoethlisBURGHer
03-02-2006, 07:33 PM
Ok well I will respectfully disagree lol...

I think I may be on the outside looking in on this because I am not a Pirates fan,therefore you guys feel much differently about it than I do.

So do we end up retiring Puljos's (sp?) number after he retires because he will have advanced Latin players in the game of baseball?

What about Ichiro or Hideki Matsui?By the end of thier careers they will be looked upon as icons for Japanese players?

SteelerDan43
03-02-2006, 07:39 PM
I think I may be on the outside looking in on this because I am not a Pirates fan,therefore you guys feel much differently about it than I do.

So do we end up retiring Puljos's (sp?) number after he retires because he will have advanced Latin players in the game of baseball?

What about Ichiro or Hideki Matsui?By the end of thier careers they will be looked upon as icons for Japanese players?

The difference between them and Clemente is that Clemente went through racial issues that the players you mentioned didnt. He went throught that as the first widely popular latin player as Robinson did for the blacks. Even in the Pittsburgh media he was treated like a baseball playing monkey when in reality he was a very articulate man who just didnt speak the language well. These racial issues are not a problem for these latin players now due mostly in part to clemente (yes I know there were a few before him but he was the first major figure).

RoethlisBURGHer
03-02-2006, 07:49 PM
The difference between them and Clemente is that Clemente went through racial issues that the players you mentioned didnt. He went throught that as the first widely popular latin player as Robinson did for the blacks. Even in the Pittsburgh media he was treated like a baseball playing monkey when in reality he was a very articulate man who just didnt speak the language well. These racial issues are not a problem for these latin players now due mostly in part to clemente (yes I know there were a few before him but he was the first major figure).

Okay,now I see where you're coming from.

Also,on another note,I think Robinson's daughter doesn't want Clemente's number retired by MLB not because of what her dad endured,but so she can live on as the daughter of the only man with that distinction.

SteelerDan43
03-03-2006, 11:21 AM
I agree Robinson's daughter doesnt have good intentions

Stlrs4Life
03-04-2006, 11:51 AM
There is an ongoing coo about wether or not to retire Roberto Clemente's 21 league wide. Jackie Robinson's daughter says it should only be her father who has the distinction of having his number retired and that Clemente did not go through what her father did so he should not have his number retired. I think they should retire Clemente's number also, he did for hispanics what Robinson did for african americans... Clemente is an icon of the hispanic community. People will say he didn't recieve the amount of racial abuse Robinson did but lets remeber when Clemente came into the league because he could barely speak any english was basically treated like a baseball playing monkey when in reality he was very a very articulate man who just didnt know english. Also lets not forget his humanitarian contributions that eventually brought his untimely death... Lets retire 21!!!

As far as I'm concerned, Robinsons daughter can go FH, I appreciate what her dad di, but he played for another team. Clemente played for the Bucs. She doesn't own the number 21.

STEELERDYNASTY
03-06-2006, 02:34 PM
Clemente is the latin version of Jackie Robinson.....he was refered to as a "double ******" because he was black and could not speak english.....HELL YES his number should be retired!