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madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 01:42 AM
Here's my grades for the year....

Coaching F

- special teams a total disaster from the start and Tomlin failed to react or change anything.
- play calling suspect most of the season
- game plans were poorly thought out against BAD competition
- Underachieved w/ plenty of talent
- unable to motivate or rally players to even beat the worst of teams
- given the easiest schedule we've had in a long long time and still could not come up with game plans to beat the likes of the Browns, Chiefs, Bears, and Raiders.
- made promises and threats but never backed up anything said.
- Team for the most part not prepared
- Struggled to score points with your QB having a career season....2 SB mvp WR's, elite TE, good RBs...etc underachieved offensively and defensively.

Offense - C+

- racked up a lot of yards but shot them selves in the foot repeatedly against poor competition.
- struggled to score points against poor competition.
- inconsistent
- abandoned the run often.
- often one dimensional
- players shined all over the offense yet we struggled to score
- game plan was flawed often


Ben - A-
- Had a career year.
- had a couple stinkers but kept us respectable with amazing play
- carried the offense on his back....because Arians put it on his back.

RB's - C+
- Mendy came into his own. Very impressive YPC and had a career year
- Parker struggled to stay healthy..showed his age but never gave up. Looked strong down the stretch. Moore was very good.
-very inconsistent
- struggled to step it up when the passing game needed them
- hand cuffed by poor play calling.

TE's - A-
- Heath had a career year.

WRs - A-

- Holmes had a very good year....bad drop in Chicago was costly but a career year none the less

- Ward showing once again why he's arguably the best over all WR in the NFL...and a future HOF'er.

- Wallace was a pleasant surprise and arguably one of the best rookies in the NFL. A future star.

O-line - C
- improved pass blocking but still not great.
- Poor run blocking.
- struggled to get push often
- put in tough situations by Arians but often held their own

Defense - C+
- Injuries to Smith and Troy were nearly devastating.
- Could not stop anything in the 4th quarter, but solid the first 3 qts???
- - Played fairly well in the first half of games
- When the defense did keep us in games offense struggled and vice verse.

D-line - C
- Loss of Smith really hurt
- Hampton solid but not as spectacular as were used to
- 1st round pick Hood unspectacular

LB's - B-
- Harrison looked great in the 1st half of the season
- Woodley looked great in the 2nd half of the season
- Farrior struggled w/ pass coverage
- Timmons struggled to stuff the run and was inconsistent.

Secondary - F
- Loss of Troy was devastating
- Ike was solid till Troy got hurt ...and then fell apart. unable to make any big plays all season. Could not stop anyone.
- Gay was a target and could not stop anyone. Looked 3 steps slower then everyone he covered.
- Ike and Gay were flat out horrible. When the pass rush needed them they were no were to be found.
- We found out why Carter is not a starter
- Clark was OK but with out Troy tried to do too much and made some mistakes.

Special teams - F ----
- So bad they made the record books
- Missed FGs in Chicago potentially cost us the playoffs
- Poor kick offs
- Horrible coverage
- contributed to every loss this season

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 02:09 AM
Moore was very good? i didnt even know he was in the game


He filled the role asked of him and when given the chance was solid. What more could you ask from your #3 RB?

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 02:24 AM
pickup blitzes better Big Roeth was the most sacked Qb again


They improved as the season wore on..... Ben's style of play also caused more sacks then most QBs. Ben refuses to dump the ball off or throw it away.

Not to mention the fact that Arians one dimensional / predictable offense makes is MUCH easier for opposing defenses to sack your QB. The best O-line in the league would struggle to perform if put in those situations. Put an average at best O-line like ours in those positions and you end up w/ 50 sacks. Most teams given their QB a dump off to avoid sacks. Ben either isnt given a dump off option or he just fails to use him. A combination of both I suppose.

Hayeksheroes
01-04-2010, 02:41 AM
Secondary - F
- Loss of Troy was devastating
- Ike was solid till Troy got hurt ...and then fell apart. unable to make any big plays all season. Could not stop anyone.
- Gay was a target and could not stop anyone. Looked 3 steps slower then everyone he covered.
- Ike and Gay were flat out horrible. When the pass rush needed them they were no were to be found.
- We found out why Carter is not a starter
- Clark was OK but with out Troy tried to do too much and made some mistakes.

CB's had two picks all year. In the last game. Where was Keiwan Lewis and and Joe Burnett? CB's were a real problem.

Tyrone Carter is not a Troy imposter. He just sucks. except for the Denver game. Generally, he sucks.

Angus Burgher
01-04-2010, 02:56 AM
I don't know.... I don't think you can call a winning season (even if it's just barely a winning season) a total failure. Yes, it was a disappointment, but I'll take 9-7 (with some impressive wins over playoff teams like Green Bay, San Diego and Minnesota) over a 2-14 or 4-12 season any day. Yes, the losses sucked, especially since so many were to bad teams. But those bad teams have also stepped it up at times and beat good teams. Oakland beat Cincy and Philly. KC just blew out Denver, even though the playoffs were on the line for the Broncos. Tampa Bay beat New Orleans and Green Bay. Nothing is certain in the NFL.

SteelC7
01-04-2010, 03:15 AM
huge disappointment, i know we expect alot but we should, thats the standard theyve set...coaching staff was very disappointing, i hope we see some changes quickly

solardave
01-04-2010, 03:51 AM
He filled the role asked of him and when given the chance was solid. What more could you ask from your #3 RB?

No he didn't. he had an off year too! Maybe because he wasn't in there enough but just the same. Mostly put in t ofair catch punts.

solardave
01-04-2010, 03:54 AM
Special teams - F ----
- So bad they made the record books
- Missed FGs in Chicago potentially cost us the playoffs
- Poor kick offs
- Horrible coverage
- contributed to every loss this season

You forgot to mention that Logan was a bright spot,or didn't you see that?

jjpro11
01-04-2010, 04:30 AM
it was 2006 all over again.. everything from the inconsistency to the devastating injuries.. to losing to a horrible Raiders team.. to missing out on the playoffs by a game.

all in all i think the ratings are pretty accurate.. although special teams doesn't deserve an F with Logan returning and other than one horrible game, Reed was solid all year for us. they deserve a C-.. piss poor coverage all year, especially the first half of the season when they gave up a touchdown almost every game. poor Logan never got any kind of decent blocking on punt returns. he had a free runner coming at him on nearly every punt. we finished 8th overall in kick return (0.2 yds avg behind the Browns and Cribbs) but only 18th on punt returns. i couldn't find stats on return defense, but i am sure we are near the bottom.

Fire Haley
01-04-2010, 06:01 AM
All four teams that earned first-round byes a year ago failed to qualify for the postseason.

Shit happens

Vincent
01-04-2010, 06:30 AM
Here's my grades for the year....

Coaching F

- special teams a total disaster from the start and Tomlin failed to react or change anything.
- play calling suspect most of the season
- game plans were poorly thought out against BAD competition
- Underachieved w/ plenty of talent
- unable to motivate or rally players to even beat the worst of teams
- given the easiest schedule we've had in a long long time and still could not come up with game plans to beat the likes of the Browns, Chiefs, Bears, and Raiders.
- made promises and threats but never backed up anything said.
- Team for the most part not prepared
- Struggled to score points with your QB having a career season....2 SB mvp WR's, elite TE, good RBs...etc underachieved offensively and defensively.

Considering the failure that 2009 was for our beloved Steelers, and the associated fan emotion, you've written a credible and objective assessment. Well done!! :hatsoff:

We had a cake schedule and an intact Super Bowl roster. We blew it. Period.

I've said most of what I intend to say about MT elsewhere, and you've captured what is the essence of the 2009 Steelers in your comments about the coaching staff and their abysmal performance.

MT has made some remarkably stupid public statements this year. This one just may "take the cake"...""We understand there are 32 teams vying for it (SB champ), there can only be one. I've been in this league 9 years and 7 times I've been disappointed, uh, that's the reality of it. So if we're not that team, so be it." Mikey, even if you were to think that thought as the HC of this storied franchise, don't let those words escape your lips to anyone, much worse to a microphone. :noidea::banging:

The video is at the end of the Hines comments at http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/

Apparently mediocrity is acceptable. "So be it".

plenewken
01-04-2010, 07:57 AM
"Ben - A-
- Had a career year.
- had a couple stinkers but kept us respectable with amazing play
- carried the offense on his back....because Arians put it on his back."

With 50 sacks and many errors in the redzone, I wouldn't give Ben more than a B-.
Time to go back to the gym, Ben.

burghfanlv
01-04-2010, 08:11 AM
The defense just wasn't what it has been in previous years. Even in the games that we won we still gave up way too many points. Losing Troy is probably what hurt us the most IMHO. I think we all forgot how important he is the entire defense until he went down.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 10:46 AM
They improved as the season wore on..... Ben's style of play also caused more sacks then most QBs. Ben refuses to dump the ball off or throw it away.

Not to mention the fact that Arians one dimensional / predictable offense makes is MUCH easier for opposing defenses to sack your QB. The best O-line in the league would struggle to perform if put in those situations. Put an average at best O-line like ours in those positions and you end up w/ 50 sacks. Most teams given their QB a dump off to avoid sacks. Ben either isnt given a dump off option or he just fails to use him. A combination of both I suppose.


I agree. It's OBVIOUS to anyone who watches the Steelers, that Ben takes a lot of sacks because he's Ben! He makes the O-line look a lot worse than it actually is, since as mentioned, he refuses to give up on a play and throw the ball away. Now, I'm not saying we have an elite O-line, but they also aren't as BAD as everyone makes them out to be. The stats indicate otherwise, but again....Ben will be Ben. Sometimes, I admit, I find myself screaming at him when he takes another sack. BUT, that's his style...love it or hate it. And when he DOES end up making that big play while shaking off 3 pass rushers, you cheer like a maniac. It is what it is. It's gonna piss you off sometimes, but other times it's gonna bring you outta your seat waving your Terrible Towel.

If you needed any proof, the game Dixon started showed it pretty obviously. He hardly was touched, becuase he didn't hesitate to throw it away when the pass rush got there.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:01 AM
While I agree to a certain extent that Tomlin had an "off" year as HC, I definitely think he deserves the benfit of the doubt. He seemed to be trying to do the right thing more often than not, but let's face it....you can only blame SO MUCH on the HC. In the NFL, the coach is always the easiest scapegoat, but I think that's a misconception. Tomlin isn't the guy out there on the field executing plays. He can coach till he's blue in the face, but if you don't have players with the talent to execute what you're coaching, your results are only gonna be so good.

Our secondary is a good example of my point. These guys know their role, they just don't have the ability to execute it! My biggest gripe all season was William Gay. I hate that dude....I mean actually loathe him. He's NOT an NFL caliber corner. Period. He looks lost on the field, and his antics at the parade last year post SuperBowl showed me that he's also a knucklehead OFF the field. The problem was, who did we have to replace him?! Now, that could be blamed SOMEWHAT on coaching, but a lot of that blame lands on the scouts and talent evaluators.

On another note, while we ALL knew that Polamalu was a crucial part of our defense, did any of us REALLY realize just how important he was?! I'm STILL absolutely shocked how ONE GUY can make a bunch of otherwise poor players look pretty good! Apparently our defensive dominance was a lot of smoke and mirrors revolving around Polamalu, and I'm not even sure the coaching staff recognized that. Now THAT you could probably put on Tomlin and LeBeau, but when one guy elevates the play of the others THAT drastically, it was probably pretty hard to see.

Just my two cents, but probably not worth quite that much. :chuckle:

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 11:08 AM
it was 2006 all over again.. everything from the inconsistency to the devastating injuries.. to losing to a horrible Raiders team.. to missing out on the playoffs by a game.

all in all i think the ratings are pretty accurate.. although special teams doesn't deserve an F with Logan returning and other than one horrible game, Reed was solid all year for us. they deserve a C-.. piss poor coverage all year, especially the first half of the season when they gave up a touchdown almost every game. poor Logan never got any kind of decent blocking on punt returns. he had a free runner coming at him on nearly every punt. we finished 8th overall in kick return (0.2 yds avg behind the Browns and Cribbs) but only 18th on punt returns. i couldn't find stats on return defense, but i am sure we are near the bottom.


I think anytime your ST's unit get in the record books for all the wrong reasons you deserve an F. Yea Logan was good, but not great. His speed hardly made up for a unit that failed miserably over all. Reed was solid but but not great. His kickoffs have really gotten bad to. You can arguably say this ST's unit was one of the worst in coverage ever....you can also argue that this STs' unit cost us the playoffs. It wasn't just the TD's they allowed. Don't forget about the piss poor field position we gave up after every kick off.

BlastFurnace
01-04-2010, 11:10 AM
I found the season to be a tremendous disappointment. To me, there is no other way to look at it. As bad as their secondary was this season, it's really hard to believe what heppened to them during that 5 game stretch.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:12 AM
I think anytime your ST's unit get in the record books for all the wrong reasons you deserve an F. Yea Logan was good, but not great. His speed hardly made up for a unit that failed miserably over all. Reed was solid but but not great. His kickoffs have really gotten bad to. You can arguably say this ST's unit was one of the worst in coverage ever....you can also argue that this STs' unit cost us the playoffs. It wasn't just the TD's they allowed. Don't forget about the piss poor field position we gave up after every kick off.

Agreed. Despite Logan, who I think is a great talent and has a bright future, his surrounding cast let him down BIG TIME this season. Our kickoff team gave up the field position battle all season, and our return team couldn't cover enough to allow a decent return....usually a fair catch. No doubt that ST's gets a big fat F if I'm grading them on their performance this season. BIG changes on the horizon for this unit.

Dino 6 Rings
01-04-2010, 11:12 AM
pretty good grades, can't really argue with them that much.

Mendenhall did show he is a real carry the load guy, look forward to seeing him again next season...ugh...9 months...

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:14 AM
pretty good grades, can't really argue with them that much.

Mendenhall did show he is a real carry the load guy, look forward to seeing him again next season...ugh...9 months...

Yep....Mendy is the real deal. He could be a real beast in the next few years.

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 11:15 AM
I agree. It's OBVIOUS to anyone who watches the Steelers, that Ben takes a lot of sacks because he's Ben! He makes the O-line look a lot worse than it actually is, since as mentioned, he refuses to give up on a play and throw the ball away. Now, I'm not saying we have an elite O-line, but they also aren't as BAD as everyone makes them out to be. The stats indicate otherwise, but again....Ben will be Ben. Sometimes, I admit, I find myself screaming at him when he takes another sack. BUT, that's his style...love it or hate it. And when he DOES end up making that big play while shaking off 3 pass rushers, you cheer like a maniac. It is what it is. It's gonna piss you off sometimes, but other times it's gonna bring you outta your seat waving your Terrible Towel.

If you needed any proof, the game Dixon started showed it pretty obviously. He hardly was touched, becuase he didn't hesitate to throw it away when the pass rush got there.

I suspect Ben will change his ways some as he matures. His career will come to an early end if he continues to get hit like he does. Brett Farve was very much the same way and he racked up INTs and sacks early in his career. Brett matured as a QB, I suspect Ben will do the same.

There is also some responsibility on the OC and the play calling. When we pass, you know we are going to pass. Arians makes it no secret and that does allow the defense to pin their ears back and go after Ben. Most of all the play calling in the red zone was some of the worst crap I've ever seen.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:21 AM
I suspect Ben will change his ways some as he matures. His career will come to an early end if he continues to get hit like he does. Brett Farve was very much the same way and he racked up INTs and sacks early in his career. Brett matured as a QB, I suspect Ben will do the same.

There is also some responsibility on the OC and the play calling. When we pass, you know we are going to pass. Arians makes it no secret and that does allow the defense to pin their ears back and go after Ben. Most of all the play calling in the red zone was some of the worst crap I've ever seen.

Maybe I should clarify. I DO in fact hate Arians with a passion. His play-calling is queationable AT BEST, and usually borders on downright awful. This team really needs to work on their 2-minute drill as well. We were able to pull it off a few times DESPITE the play-calling, but that one game (I can't remember the opponent at the moment) where we had to drive the field with 2 minutes on the clock and Ben threw THREE bombs on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down was some of the worst playcalling I'v EVER seen. It of course resulted in a 3 and out, and eventually a loss. REALLY bad.

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 11:23 AM
"Ben - A-
- Had a career year.
- had a couple stinkers but kept us respectable with amazing play
- carried the offense on his back....because Arians put it on his back."

With 50 sacks and many errors in the redzone, I wouldn't give Ben more than a B-.
Time to go back to the gym, Ben.


I can understand why you say that but you can't ignore the fact Ben carried the offense. Arians put the entire offense on his shoulders....we became a one dimensional Pass first team. Trying to put a round peg in a square hole will cause issues. That all said Ben was clearly the best player on the team this year. He willed us to victory more then once. Yea he also made some crucial mistakes but I seriously do put much of that blame on the play calling.

I've said this before.....Trying to control a car driving 100 mph in a city is difficult...you'll eventually crash. Arians handled our offense like he had the pedal to the floor. Are you going to blame Ben for making mistakes or the OC for asking too much? Sure both share some blame but I think if you consider the past 3 years this offense has under achieved and struggle to score points....I don't see how you cannot fire Arians. Yards do not equal wins. Points equal wins. If we were in the top 5 in scoring I'd be much less harsh on Arians. Problem is we aren't....and we were given one of the easiest schedules we've had in decades.

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 11:35 AM
While I agree to a certain extent that Tomlin had an "off" year as HC, I definitely think he deserves the benfit of the doubt. He seemed to be trying to do the right thing more often than not, but let's face it....you can only blame SO MUCH on the HC. In the NFL, the coach is always the easiest scapegoat, but I think that's a misconception. Tomlin isn't the guy out there on the field executing plays. He can coach till he's blue in the face, but if you don't have players with the talent to execute what you're coaching, your results are only gonna be so good.

Our secondary is a good example of my point. These guys know their role, they just don't have the ability to execute it! My biggest gripe all season was William Gay. I hate that dude....I mean actually loathe him. He's NOT an NFL caliber corner. Period. He looks lost on the field, and his antics at the parade last year post SuperBowl showed me that he's also a knucklehead OFF the field. The problem was, who did we have to replace him?! Now, that could be blamed SOMEWHAT on coaching, but a lot of that blame lands on the scouts and talent evaluators.

On another note, while we ALL knew that Polamalu was a crucial part of our defense, did any of us REALLY realize just how important he was?! I'm STILL absolutely shocked how ONE GUY can make a bunch of otherwise poor players look pretty good! Apparently our defensive dominance was a lot of smoke and mirrors revolving around Polamalu, and I'm not even sure the coaching staff recognized that. Now THAT you could probably put on Tomlin and LeBeau, but when one guy elevates the play of the others THAT drastically, it was probably pretty hard to see.

Just my two cents, but probably not worth quite that much. :chuckle:

Gay had a horrible season...I agree. But Im not ready to give up on him...its only his 2nd year.

Our scouting dept / talent evaluators have done a great job IMO. This team is as loaded as any team in the league when it comes to talent. Do we have holes? Sure but you'll be hard pressed to find a team that has as many playmakers and elite players at key positions then the Pittsburgh steelers. We are a SB contending team. Missing the playoffs with this team is a total failure. Different teams have different expectations....if the Lions went 9-7 that would be a huge success for them. For the steelers 9-7 and missing ther playoffs is a failture on monumental proportions. Its not like we had Ben un healthy or out for a long period of time...we did not have a brutal schedule.

We do need more depth on defense. That is clear. We also need to improve our O-line. Parker would be a very good re signing IMO. You need two solid RBs. good luck finding one better then Parker.

Dino 6 Rings
01-04-2010, 11:43 AM
I agree, sign Willie to a small contract if he'll take the home town discount. Wouldn't hurt having him back there with Mendy if he'll take the back up role.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Gay had a horrible season...I agree. But Im not ready to give up on him...its only his 2nd year.

Our scouting dept / talent evaluators have done a great job IMO. This team is as loaded as any team in the league when it comes to talent. Do we have holes? Sure but you'll be hard pressed to find a team that has as many playmakers and elite players at key positions then the Pittsburgh steelers. We are a SB contending team. Missing the playoffs with this team is a total failure. Different teams have different expectations....if the Lions went 9-7 that would be a huge success for them. For the steelers 9-7 and missing ther playoffs is a failture on monumental proportions. Its not like we had Ben un healthy or out for a long period of time...we did not have a brutal schedule.

We do need more depth on defense. That is clear. We also need to improve our O-line. Parker would be a very good re signing IMO. You need two solid RBs. good luck finding one better then Parker.

While I agree with much of this, I'm not sure how you could call ANY of our Corners "elite". I don't believe any of them are even close, and CB is a very important position. To be truly successful, I think you need to have at least ONE top-notch cover guy. Aside from Troy (who isn't a CB), we don't have that.

Aside from that, we need BIG changes on Special Teams. No doubt about that. The O-line could use some tweaks, but again I feel there are greater needs in the above-mentioned areas.

Triggerfish
01-04-2010, 11:56 AM
.....and for the record, I would LOVE to see Willie back too. If we can sign him at the right price, he's a great backup and compliment to Mendy.

steelreserve
01-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I don't know.... I don't think you can call a winning season (even if it's just barely a winning season) a total failure.

That's why the two main parts, the offense and defense, were C+ and not F.

C+ pretty much sums up the entire season, actually. Which is pretty disappointing when you just came off an A+ showing. If this was an actual school report card, the Steelers would be the honor roll student that everyone suspects suddenly got hooked on drugs.

Angus Burgher
01-04-2010, 12:28 PM
That's why the two main parts, the offense and defense, were C+ and not F.

C+ pretty much sums up the entire season, actually. Which is pretty disappointing when you just came off an A+ showing. If this was an actual school report card, the Steelers would be the honor roll student that everyone suspects suddenly got hooked on drugs.

LOL, that's true. Just pointing out that if you're not weighing this season against previous ones, it wasn't THAT bad just based on its own merit. Not great, and maybe not even good per se... but not a total failure either.

plenewken
01-04-2010, 12:35 PM
I can understand why you say that but you can't ignore the fact Ben carried the offense. Arians put the entire offense on his shoulders....we became a one dimensional Pass first team. Trying to put a round peg in a square hole will cause issues. That all said Ben was clearly the best player on the team this year. He willed us to victory more then once. Yea he also made some crucial mistakes but I seriously do put much of that blame on the play calling.

I've said this before.....Trying to control a car driving 100 mph in a city is difficult...you'll eventually crash. Arians handled our offense like he had the pedal to the floor. Are you going to blame Ben for making mistakes or the OC for asking too much? Sure both share some blame but I think if you consider the past 3 years this offense has under achieved and struggle to score points....I don't see how you cannot fire Arians. Yards do not equal wins. Points equal wins. If we were in the top 5 in scoring I'd be much less harsh on Arians. Problem is we aren't....and we were given one of the easiest schedules we've had in decades.

Oh, I agree with you, Arians needs to go but I won't let Ben off the hook either.
A $100M QB should make better decisions than he makes and should execute better in the red zone. How many sacks could have he avoided by getting rid of the ball? 20?
He can also call audibles if he doesn't like what he sees. He looked to me completely out of shape. I tell you what, if he was is the same physical condition when we played the Colts in Jan 2006, I don't see how he could have tackled Harper returning Bettis' fumble on the goal line.

Angus Burgher
01-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Oh, I agree with you, Arians needs to go but I won't let Ben off the hook either.
A $100M QB should make better decisions than he makes and should execute better in the red zone. How many sacks could have he avoided by getting rid of the ball? 20?
He can also call audibles if he doesn't like what he sees. He looked to me completely out of shape. I tell you what, if he was is the same physical condition when we played the Colts in Jan 2006, I don't see how he could have tackled Harper returning Bettis' fumble on the goal line.

Shit like this is completely ridiculous. The guy breaks more tackles than any quarterback I've ever seen and can scramble fast enough that defenders constantly miss him. But oh, no, he's just a big fat load. He's nothing more than a JaMarcus Russell. Except that he threw for 4,300 yards and 26 TDs. Oh, and he ran for 2. That's how slow and awkward he is. Some of you guys make some of the most idiotic complaints I've ever heard.

TackleMeBen
01-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Oh, I agree with you, Arians needs to go but I won't let Ben off the hook either.
A $100M QB should make better decisions than he makes and should execute better in the red zone. How many sacks could have he avoided by getting rid of the ball? 20?
He can also call audibles if he doesn't like what he sees. He looked to me completely out of shape. I tell you what, if he was is the same physical condition when we played the Colts in Jan 2006, I don't see how he could have tackled Harper returning Bettis' fumble on the goal line.
i agree that ben probably could have made a few more better decisions. but we all know that he wont throw the ball the way.

ben did look like he was bigger than last season.but i wouldnt say he out of shape. maybe coach tomlin can have him lay off the pasta and burgers in the off season oh and beer :chuckle:

Larry
01-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Oh, I agree with you, Arians needs to go but I won't let Ben off the hook either.
A $100M QB should make better decisions than he makes and should execute better in the red zone. How many sacks could have he avoided by getting rid of the ball? 20?
He can also call audibles if he doesn't like what he sees. He looked to me completely out of shape. I tell you what, if he was is the same physical condition when we played the Colts in Jan 2006, I don't see how he could have tackled Harper returning Bettis' fumble on the goal line.

There is a major flaw in your logic. You talk about Ben not throwing the ball away and getting sacked, but you say nothing about all of the times he has held onto the ball and made a huge play. So yes, maybe he could have avoided some sacks by throwing the ball away, but if he plays more cautiously then he's not going to make the big play that he's known for. Of course, he is prone to concussion, and you can make the argument that the sacks outweigh the big plays, but don't look at it in hindsight and say he should know to get rid of the ball and avoid those sacks. That's the way he plays.

solardave
01-04-2010, 02:32 PM
I think anytime your ST's unit get in the record books for all the wrong reasons you deserve an F. Yea Logan was good, but not great. His speed hardly made up for a unit that failed miserably over all. Reed was solid but but not great. His kickoffs have really gotten bad to. You can arguably say this ST's unit was one of the worst in coverage ever....you can also argue that this STs' unit cost us the playoffs. It wasn't just the TD's they allowed. Don't forget about the piss poor field position we gave up after every kick off.

I won't argue with you about coverage. You're right there,but on returns we had no blocking and Logan still got some great returns. He might as well be out there by himself with no blockers. He's a keeper!!! Not great? Better than most return men out there.

scsteeler
01-04-2010, 04:05 PM
All four teams that earned first-round byes a year ago failed to qualify for the postseason.

Shit happens


:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

SteelGhost
01-04-2010, 05:07 PM
Here's my grades for the year....

Coaching F

- special teams a total disaster from the start and Tomlin failed to react or change anything.
- play calling suspect most of the season
- game plans were poorly thought out against BAD competition
- Underachieved w/ plenty of talent
- unable to motivate or rally players to even beat the worst of teams
- given the easiest schedule we've had in a long long time and still could not come up with game plans to beat the likes of the Browns, Chiefs, Bears, and Raiders.
- made promises and threats but never backed up anything said.
- Team for the most part not prepared
- Struggled to score points with your QB having a career season....2 SB mvp WR's, elite TE, good RBs...etc underachieved offensively and defensively.

Offense - C+

- racked up a lot of yards but shot them selves in the foot repeatedly against poor competition.
- struggled to score points against poor competition.
- inconsistent
- abandoned the run often.
- often one dimensional
- players shined all over the offense yet we struggled to score
- game plan was flawed often


Ben - A-
- Had a career year.
- had a couple stinkers but kept us respectable with amazing play
- carried the offense on his back....because Arians put it on his back.

RB's - C+
- Mendy came into his own. Very impressive YPC and had a career year
- Parker struggled to stay healthy..showed his age but never gave up. Looked strong down the stretch. Moore was very good.
-very inconsistent
- struggled to step it up when the passing game needed them
- hand cuffed by poor play calling.

TE's - A-
- Heath had a career year.

WRs - A-

- Holmes had a very good year....bad drop in Chicago was costly but a career year none the less

- Ward showing once again why he's arguably the best over all WR in the NFL...and a future HOF'er.

- Wallace was a pleasant surprise and arguably one of the best rookies in the NFL. A future star.

O-line - C
- improved pass blocking but still not great.
- Poor run blocking.
- struggled to get push often
- put in tough situations by Arians but often held their own

Defense - C+
- Injuries to Smith and Troy were nearly devastating.
- Could not stop anything in the 4th quarter, but solid the first 3 qts???
- - Played fairly well in the first half of games
- When the defense did keep us in games offense struggled and vice verse.

D-line - C
- Loss of Smith really hurt
- Hampton solid but not as spectacular as were used to
- 1st round pick Hood unspectacular

LB's - B-
- Harrison looked great in the 1st half of the season
- Woodley looked great in the 2nd half of the season
- Farrior struggled w/ pass coverage
- Timmons struggled to stuff the run and was inconsistent.

Secondary - F
- Loss of Troy was devastating
- Ike was solid till Troy got hurt ...and then fell apart. unable to make any big plays all season. Could not stop anyone.
- Gay was a target and could not stop anyone. Looked 3 steps slower then everyone he covered.
- Ike and Gay were flat out horrible. When the pass rush needed them they were no were to be found.
- We found out why Carter is not a starter
- Clark was OK but with out Troy tried to do too much and made some mistakes.

Special teams - F ----
- So bad they made the record books
- Missed FGs in Chicago potentially cost us the playoffs
- Poor kick offs
- Horrible coverage
- contributed to every loss this season

Hey madtowndrunkard, you've made a great analysis, I like your grades, but I can't call the 2009 Season a "total failure" I prefer to call it "a huge dissapointment" :wink:

I expect the FO and Coaching Staff fix the team to return in great shape for the 2010 season :tt02:

Preacher
01-04-2010, 05:38 PM
Sorry.. I got some problems with this.

1. Total failure? No season, where we are playing in the 17th week with hopes of the playoffs can be called a total failure. As another poster said, huge disappointment, yes. Total failure is quite overblown.

2. Our offense gets a B+. There was only two games that our defense kept low scoring, which our offense should have won, and didn't. The second Bungle's game and the Browns' game. They did however, make a LOT of comebacks, only to see it get wiped off the board by the defense.

3. Defense C-. Outside of the injuries, which no one doubts was a big issue, there was no intensity this year. I only saw 2 powerful hits that reeks of intensity. I think that was just as much a part of the problem.

4. LB's. On Timmons. He had some nice bright spots. He has had a knock on him about stuffing the run, but I think in reality, he is better than people think. There is still room for improvement, as this is was his first starting year.

5. Your right about Carter... but also remember that it is unfair to compare him to Troy, which I think we all do unconsciously. He is a good backup, but as time moves on, we may need to look for another backup safety to replace him.

madtowndrunkard
01-04-2010, 05:51 PM
Sorry.. I got some problems with this.

1. Total failure? No season, where we are playing in the 17th week with hopes of the playoffs can be called a total failure. As another poster said, huge disappointment, yes. Total failure is quite overblown.

2. Our offense gets a B+. There was only two games that our defense kept low scoring, which our offense should have won, and didn't. The second Bungle's game and the Browns' game. They did however, make a LOT of comebacks, only to see it get wiped off the board by the defense.

3. Defense C-. Outside of the injuries, which no one doubts was a big issue, there was no intensity this year. I only saw 2 powerful hits that reeks of intensity. I think that was just as much a part of the problem.

4. LB's. On Timmons. He had some nice bright spots. He has had a knock on him about stuffing the run, but I think in reality, he is better than people think. There is still room for improvement, as this is was his first starting year.

5. Your right about Carter... but also remember that it is unfair to compare him to Troy, which I think we all do unconsciously. He is a good backup, but as time moves on, we may need to look for another backup safety to replace him.

Of course you do.

B+ on offense? LoL When the offense is among the top 5 in the NFL in scoring then yea I'll agree with a B+...maybe even an A. Average in scoring by no means earns a B+.....especially considering our offense gave up 28 points on turnovers and struggled against the worst defenses in the league. (Brownsx2, Lions, Chiefs, Raiders, Titans, Dolphins....all among the worst defenses in the league. The first 3 teams are actually ranked 32,31,and 30th in the NFL. With the talent we have offensively to give them a b+ is laughable.

As for the rest of your points....ok....not really different then what I said

T.Richardson
01-04-2010, 05:56 PM
Shit like this is completely ridiculous. The guy breaks more tackles than any quarterback I've ever seen and can scramble fast enough that defenders constantly miss him. But oh, no, he's just a big fat load. He's nothing more than a JaMarcus Russell. Except that he threw for 4,300 yards and 26 TDs. Oh, and he ran for 2. That's how slow and awkward he is. Some of you guys make some of the most idiotic complaints I've ever heard.

Completely agree. +1

plenewken
01-05-2010, 09:54 AM
Shit like this is completely ridiculous. The guy breaks more tackles than any quarterback I've ever seen and can scramble fast enough that defenders constantly miss him. But oh, no, he's just a big fat load. He's nothing more than a JaMarcus Russell. Except that he threw for 4,300 yards and 26 TDs. Oh, and he ran for 2. That's how slow and awkward he is. Some of you guys make some of the most idiotic complaints I've ever heard.

Knowing that he was sacked 50 times, your contention that he breaks more tackles than any QB tells me that without it, he'd have been sacked what? 80 times? That's awful.
What bothers me most is the pluses of escaping sacks in the pocket do not offset the minuses of being sacked.
Generally, when Ben breaks a tackle, he ends up with either an incomplete pass or a very short gain. Very rarely there's a big play out of it.

I haven't said he's a big fat load, I said he looked outta shape and slower than he was 2 years ago. You can't deny it.

Now, 26 TDs for 4,300 passing yds is pretty mediocre in my book, sorry.
I'm not saying Ben is the only one responsible for it because there were several dropped passes in the end zone that should have produced TDs, but I'm not sold on his ability to hit the right target in the end zone. INTs in the end zone shouldn't happen. It's the worst mistake a QB can make, because not only doesn't it put points on the board but more importantly it shifts momentum.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 10:06 AM
Sorry.. I got some problems with this.

1. Total failure? No season, where we are playing in the 17th week with hopes of the playoffs can be called a total failure. As another poster said, huge disappointment, yes. Total failure is quite overblown.

2. Our offense gets a B+. There was only two games that our defense kept low scoring, which our offense should have won, and didn't. The second Bungle's game and the Browns' game. They did however, make a LOT of comebacks, only to see it get wiped off the board by the defense.

3. Defense C-. Outside of the injuries, which no one doubts was a big issue, there was no intensity this year. I only saw 2 powerful hits that reeks of intensity. I think that was just as much a part of the problem.



Wholeheartedly agree with #'s 1 and 2. :applaudit: :drink:

I'd have to give the Defense a D- for the reason I highlighted above.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 10:10 AM
Knowing that he was sacked 50 times, your contention that he breaks more tackles than any QB tells me that without it, he'd have been sacked what? 80 times? That's awful.
What bothers me most is the pluses of escaping sacks in the pocket do not offset the minuses of being sacked.
Generally, when Ben breaks a tackle, he ends up with either an incomplete pass or a very short gain. Very rarely there's a big play out of it.

I haven't said he's a big fat load, I said he looked outta shape and slower than he was 2 years ago. You can't deny it.

Now, 26 TDs for 4,300 passing yds is pretty mediocre in my book, sorry.
I'm not saying Ben is the only one responsible for it because there were several dropped passes in the end zone that should have produced TDs, but I'm not sold on his ability to hit the right target in the end zone. INTs in the end zone shouldn't happen. It's the worst mistake a QB can make, because not only doesn't it put points on the board but more importantly it shifts momentum.

Tom Brady threw for 28 TD and had 4398 yards passing. He has also thrown a couple of pick-6s and has been picked off in the end zone. Is he mediocre? In fact, here is a list of QBs who have thrown for at least 4200 yards and have similar TD numbers to Ben:

Matt Schaub (4770 yards, 29 TD)
Tony Romo (4483 yards, 26 TD)
Aaron Rodgers (4434 yards, 30 TD)
Brady (4398 yards, 28 TD)
Philip Rivers (4254 yards, 28 TD)

Are they all mediocre?

Ben also had a 100.5 passer rating, which was 5th in the NFL and was better than Manning's (99.9), Schaub's (98.6) and Brady's (96.2). I guess that's mediocre, though.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 10:34 AM
Now, 26 TDs for 4,300 passing yds is pretty mediocre in my book, sorry.

Yeah, he should have thrown at least 75 TDs for 6,500 yards. He's too fat and he sucks and is overpaid. :rolleyes:

plenewken
01-05-2010, 10:48 AM
Tom Brady threw for 28 TD and had just over 4400 yards. He has also thrown a couple of pick-6s and has been picked off in the end zone. Is he mediocre?

Brady didn't have a great year either, coming from injury. But he had only 16 sacks vs. 50 for Ben. That's a huge difference don't you think? This represents more than 300 lost yards. And last I checked, he's in the playoffs, Ben's not.

You could have picked Rodgers, it would have been a better comparison. Rodgers was sacked 50 times also (but he played 1 more game this season), he's thrown 30 TDs vs 26 for Ben, he's been picked 7 times vs 12 for Ben, he's averaging 5 yds per rush vs. 2 for Ben and he's had 5 rushing TD vs 2 for Ben.

Compare Green Bay's offensive stats vs ours and then tell me how many more games we'd have won with 6 more pts on the board, which is the difference in average pts per game between the Packers and us.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Yeah, he should have thrown at least 75 TDs for 6,500 yards. He's too fat and he sucks and is overpaid. :rolleyes:

Guess Terry Bradshaw was mediocre, too, as his highest passing yardage was 3,724 in 1979 and he threw for a "mediocre" 28 TD's in 1978. :noidea:

revefsreleets
01-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Total failure?

Bwahahahahahahaha....

Carry on.

madtowndrunkard
01-05-2010, 11:16 AM
Brady didn't have a great year either, coming from injury. But he had only 16 sacks vs. 50 for Ben. That's a huge difference don't you think? This represents more than 300 lost yards. And last I checked, he's in the playoffs, Ben's not.

You could have picked Rodgers, it would have been a better comparison. Rodgers was sacked 50 times also (but he played 1 more game this season), he's thrown 30 TDs vs 26 for Ben, he's been picked 7 times vs 12 for Ben, he's averaging 5 yds per rush vs. 2 for Ben and he's had 5 rushing TD vs 2 for Ben.

Compare Green Bay's offensive stats vs ours and then tell me how many more games we'd have won with 6 more pts on the board, which is the difference in average pts per game between the Packers and us.

The reason the Packers score more points is because they have a better OC who knows how to run an offense. The packers addressed their sack issue by the end of the season and starting winning games down the stretch.

If you think Ben had a mediocre year then you really don't have a clue. 4K yards is an accomplishment especially given the td / INT ratio. And as you mentioned Ben missed a game. Given Bens avg yards per game he should have had something like 4500+ yards 27TD's and 12ints. Also don't forget the games Ben essentially won by him self. Yea he had some bad games this year...Chicago, KC, Cleveland, etc....but he is not the only guy on the field. IMO Arians also plays a part in the sacks that Ben took.

I do agree with you some what about Ben running into sacks. Yes he does elude sacks in just about every game. My contention is Ben usually is holding the ball too long...thus putting him in a position of having to elude a sack. So he put him self in that position in the first place. His ability to elude sacks is also greatly exaggerated ...he's good at breaking tackles...but he still takes more sacks then he eludes.

How many times have you seen Ben drop back.....look around for 5+ seconds....then step up into pressure....then break a tackle.....roll out of the pocket and hit a WR, over throw it...or just run with the ball? How many times did Ben hold the ball too long?...then attempt to run...gain maybe a yard or two....He avoids the sack but really it was almost as bad as a sack..but it goes down as a rush....which helps explain partly why Ben has such a low rushing avg.

Ben is not a quick decision maker...there's no arguing that. He needs to improve that and he needs to use his out let. Though half the time Arians does not even give him a RB or TE to dump the ball off to. Running plays with deep WR routes when you only need 3-6 yards is IMO stupid and only asking for a sack.

Using a dump off guy on even a 1/3 of his sacks would mean Ben would be right there in the middle of the pack in terms of sacks....we also probably would have more points scored and more offensive yardage. So yea Ben has faults that he needs to address but he still had a very very good year. Rogers will dump the ball off if he sees nothing....Rogers will throw the ball away....the Packers often use quick slants and 3 step drops that help Rogers get rid of the ball quicker. Even so the Packers O-line is much worse then ours when it comes to pass protection....and both QBs were sacked 50X. Difference being Ben is responsible for a large portion of his sacks....he admits that him self. It's the OC's job to reduce the sacks and run plays that don't put Ben in a position of standing in the pocket for 5+ seconds when we only need 5-10 yards for a 1st down.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 11:22 AM
Brady didn't have a great year either, coming from injury. But he had only 16 sacks vs. 50 for Ben. That's a huge difference don't you think? This represents more than 300 lost yards. And last I checked, he's in the playoffs, Ben's not.

You could have picked Rodgers, it would have been a better comparison. Rodgers was sacked 50 times also (but he played 1 more game this season), he's thrown 30 TDs vs 26 for Ben, he's been picked 7 times vs 12 for Ben, he's averaging 5 yds per rush vs. 2 for Ben and he's had 5 rushing TD vs 2 for Ben.

Compare Green Bay's offensive stats vs ours and then tell me how many more games we'd have won with 6 more pts on the board, which is the difference in average pts per game between the Packers and us.

You said Ben had a mediocre season with his 4400+ yards and 26 TD. I posted QBs with similar stats to show that it really wasn't a mediocre season when compared to those other QBs. Let's stick with that. I'm not making comparisons about anything other than that.

madtowndrunkard
01-05-2010, 11:23 AM
Total failure?

Bwahahahahahahaha....

Carry on.


Yep...total failure.

When a team as loaded as ours fails to make the playoffs after winning a SB the previous year....the expectations are different...and rightfully so. We had a healthy QB all season so there really is no excuse....that point is multiplied by the fact that we were given a gravy schedule and still could not get it done. Losing to the likes of Cleveland, Chicago, Oakland, and KC is embarrassing.....heck it's embarrassing to just lose to one of those teams....let alone all 4.

There is not a player on this team who would not agree with me that the season was a failure. If you are ok with just a winning record then I think you might be cheering for the wrong team. Our expectations are different then he likes of Cleveland, Oakland, KC, or Detroit. Those teams don't have the play makers we do, and I can guarantee that if we have another season like this next year.....Mike Tomlin and his crew will be gone.

revefsreleets
01-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Yep...total failure.

When a team as loaded as ours fails to make the playoffs after winning a SB the previous year....the expectations are different...and rightfully so. We had a healthy QB all season so there really is no excuse....that point is multiplied by the fact that we were given a gravy schedule and still could not get it done. Losing to the likes of Cleveland, Chicago, Oakland, and KC is embarrassing.....heck it's embarrassing to just lose to one of those teams....let alone all 4.

There is not a player on this team who would not agree with me that the season was a failure. If you are ok with just a winning record then I think you might be cheering for the wrong team. Our expectations are different then he likes of Cleveland, Oakland, KC, or Detroit. Those teams don't have the play makers we do, and I can guarantee that if we have another season like this next year.....Mike Tomlin and his crew will be gone.

There is not a player on the team outside PERHAPS James Harrison (who lives in a World all his own) who would agree with you that the season was a TOTAL failure.

They would, however, probably concur that the season was an extremely upsetting disappointment. Total failure denotes that the team accomplished NOTHING, which is absurd.

Since the original idea is rubbish, pretty much everything else that follows is irrelevant.

lionslicer
01-05-2010, 11:37 AM
It isn't a total failure.... kind of...

plenewken
01-05-2010, 11:38 AM
The reason the Packers score more points is because they have a better OC who knows how to run an offense. The packers addressed their sack issue by the end of the season and starting winning games down the stretch.

If you think Ben had a mediocre year then you really don't have a clue. 4K yards is an accomplishment especially given the td / INT ratio. And as you mentioned Ben missed a game. Given Bens avg yards per game he should have had something like 4500+ yards 27TD's and 12ints. Also don't forget the games Ben essentially won by him self. Yea he had some bad games this year...Chicago, KC, Cleveland, etc....but he is not the only guy on the field. IMO Arians also plays a part in the sacks that Ben took.

I do agree with you some what about Ben running into sacks. Yes he does elude sacks in just about every game. My contention is Ben usually is holding the ball too long...thus putting him in a position of having to elude a sack. So he put him self in that position in the first place. His ability to elude sacks is also greatly exaggerated ...he's good at breaking tackles...but he still takes more sacks then he eludes.

How many times have you seen Ben drop back.....look around for 5+ seconds....then step up into pressure....then break a tackle.....roll out of the pocket and hit a WR, over throw it...or just run with the ball? How many times did Ben hold the ball too long?...then attempt to run...gain maybe a yard or two....He avoids the sack but really it was almost as bad as a sack..but it goes down as a rush....which helps explain partly why Ben has such a low rushing avg.

Ben is not a quick decision maker...there's no arguing that. He needs to improve that and he needs to use his out let. Though half the time Arians does not even give him a RB or TE to dump the ball off to. Running plays with deep WR routes when you only need 3-6 yards is IMO stupid and only asking for a sack.

Using a dump off guy on even a 1/3 of his sacks would mean Ben would be right there in the middle of the pack in terms of sacks....we also probably would have more points scored and more offensive yardage. So yea Ben has faults that he needs to address but he still had a very very good year. Rogers will dump the ball off if he sees nothing....Rogers will throw the ball away....the Packers often use quick slants and 3 step drops that help Rogers get rid of the ball quicker. Even so the Packers O-line is much worse then ours when it comes to pass protection....and both QBs were sacked 50X. Difference being Ben is responsible for a large portion of his sacks....he admits that him self. It's the OC's job to reduce the sacks and run plays that don't put Ben in a position of standing in the pocket for 5+ seconds when we only need 5-10 yards for a 1st down.

Very good post. You said it better than I did. Ben's >4000yds season is not the problem, I didn't say it was.
The problem is what came out of them.

Yes, Arians has to be blamed much more than Ben for our offensive production. , but I maintain than Ben bears responsibility for a significant number of useless sacks and for too many poor decisions in the red zone which ultimately cost us several games.

You forgot the 1st game in Cincinnati where out of 4 red zone opps, we managed to get 6 friggin' pts. Not all Ben's fault but some clearly were.

Now, before "HTG" nails me for being anti-Arians and not being in awe with Ben's performance, I don't forget that our defense hasn't produced enough to protect our Q4 leads whatever small they might have been, and particularly has not had anywhere near the number of INTs expected from a 1st class defense.

Oh and of course, having the STs give up great yardage and 4 KOs returned for TD was another (big) nail in the coffin.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 11:51 AM
Yep...total failure.



I know you're anxiously awaiting revs' reply, but I just had to comment on a few things. :drink:

We had a healthy QB all season so there really is no excuse....that point is multiplied by the fact that we were given a gravy schedule and still could not get it done. Losing to the likes of Cleveland, Chicago, Oakland, and KC is embarrassing.....heck it's embarrassing to just lose to one of those teams....let alone all 4.

Ben was not healthy "all season" - he missed the Rats game on November 29th after having his bell rung the week before, and though Dixon played admirably in that game, the D (once again) allowed Flacco to drive down the field late in the game (after the Steelers O put 7 on the board with a little over 6 left in the game) and Cundiff tied it up and won it in OT. Also - I'm sure you know that O constitutes only a portion of a game, healthy QB or not. Our D blew chunks in at least 5 of our losses when given leads by our O late in the 4Q's. The Browns game and the 2nd Bungles game were definitely attributable to our O not being able to put points on the board and I'll give you that.

Those teams don't have the play makers we do, and I can guarantee that if we have another season like this next year.....Mike Tomlin and his crew will be gone.

I disagree. The Rooneys are a very patient lot and don't fire their HC's after a losing season or two (or three) in a row. They didn't do it with Chuck Noll and they didn't do it with The Chin. I don't see them doing it with Tomlin either.

If you are ok with just a winning record then I think you might be cheering for the wrong team.

Considering how badly our D played this season, I'd say we're damned lucky to have finished the season 9-7. We easily could have been 6-10 or 7-9. I have no grandioso expectations of this team in any given season. Getting into the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl every season is not only impossible, but unrealistic. All I ask of them is to play hard and give it their all and in that respect, I feel they failed not only we fans, but most importantly, themselves, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 11:56 AM
Now, before "HTG" nails me for being anti-Arians and not being in awe with Ben's performance,

That was a bit classless there, plenewken.

I'm not going to "nail" you or anyone else for being a member of the Arians Witch Hunt Club, even though I have not read one single post on this board in the last 3 years which justifies the intense hatred of this man and until I do, I'm going to continue to defend my position with regard to BA and the failures of the Steelers D this season.

revefsreleets
01-05-2010, 11:58 AM
There won't be a reply...he's on my ignore, and I only opened this one post to respond out of a request from another poster.

The season would be a total failure if the team was sold or disbanded. That's about the only thing that would qualify. There's nothing really more to say on the matter, since the neither of the aforementioned things actually occurred.

plenewken
01-05-2010, 12:02 PM
That was a bit classless there, plenewken.


I'm sorry, we're cool. I was just yanking your chain, nothing more to read into it.

madtowndrunkard
01-05-2010, 12:17 PM
I know you're anxiously awaiting revs' reply, but I just had to comment on a few things. :drink:



Ben was not healthy "all season" - he missed the Rats game on November 29th after having his bell rung the week before, and though Dixon played admirably in that game, the D (once again) allowed Flacco to drive down the field late in the game (after the Steelers O put 7 on the board with a little over 6 left in the game) and Cundiff tied it up and won it in OT. Also - I'm sure you know that O constitutes only a portion of a game, healthy QB or not. Our D blew chunks in at least 5 of our losses when given leads by our O late in the 4Q's. The Browns game and the 2nd Bungles game were definitely attributable to our O not being able to put points on the board and I'll give you that.



I disagree. The Rooneys are a very patient lot and don't fire their HC's after a losing season or two (or three) in a row. They didn't do it with Chuck Noll and they didn't do it with The Chin. I don't see them doing it with Tomlin either.



Considering how badly our D played this season, I'd say we're damned lucky to have finished the season 9-7. We easily could have been 6-10 or 7-9. I have no grandioso expectations of this team in any given season. Getting into the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl every season is not only impossible, but unrealistic. All I ask of them is to play hard and give it their all and in that respect, I feel they failed not only we fans, but most importantly, themselves, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

The 3 coaches you mention all had totally different situations. You cannot compare the 3. The first 2 are HOF coahes who earned the right to have a couple losing seasons...and the facts surrounding those losing seasons explained everything quite clearly that the coach was not the reason for the teams failures. If Team A has Tom Brady and Team B has Kordell Stewart how on earth can the expectations be the same? They can't and they were not. What the previous coaches accomplished with the likes of Tommy Maddox, Mark Malone, Kordell Stewart, Neil Odonell, etc etc was IMO admirable for the most part. Plus both coaches established a winning tradition as well as performance above expectations.

Tomlin took over a team expected to make the playoffs and contend for a SB. He did that during his first two seasons. If injuries derailed a season then sure he obviously would be given a pass. But if we fail to make the playoffs 2 years in a row with a team as loaded with talent as this one then that shows that the team is headed in the wrong direction and a change needs to be made. If Mike Tomlin had a history of winning over a long period of time (say 3-5 playoff seasons in a row) then obviously he would have earned the right to have a bad season or two.

In reality (and rest assured the Steelers ownership and FO are aware) Tomlin took over a talented / well coached team. Tomlin was not even given the right to hire his own staff. (which speaks to the respect ownership gives Tomlin) ..he took the chair as HC but Cowhers staff has been running this team....and not many people out side of some steeler fanatics think Tomlin is the reason we won that last SB. With out Dick Leabeau and Big Ben we never would have pulled that off and everyone knows it. I agree Tomlin should not have any heat this year after a total failure ....but if it happens again next year there would be no defense for not making a change. Especially if you again see the same locker room issues and disorganization that we saw this year. Tomlin nearly lost this team this season...you can bet shit would hit the fan in that locker room if the losing continues next year. I suspect that it will not happen next year...but if for some reason it does.....

memphissteelergirl
01-05-2010, 12:23 PM
I know you're anxiously awaiting revs' reply, but I just had to comment on a few things. :drink:



Ben was not healthy "all season" - he missed the Rats game on November 29th after having his bell rung the week before, and though Dixon played admirably in that game, the D (once again) allowed Flacco to drive down the field late in the game (after the Steelers O put 7 on the board with a little over 6 left in the game) and Cundiff tied it up and won it in OT. Also - I'm sure you know that O constitutes only a portion of a game, healthy QB or not. Our D blew chunks in at least 5 of our losses when given leads by our O late in the 4Q's. The Browns game and the 2nd Bungles game were definitely attributable to our O not being able to put points on the board and I'll give you that.



I disagree. The Rooneys are a very patient lot and don't fire their HC's after a losing season or two (or three) in a row. They didn't do it with Chuck Noll and they didn't do it with The Chin. I don't see them doing it with Tomlin either. Amen. I think a lot of this is wishful thinking on some people's parts in here. They weren't thrilled about Tomlin being hired in the first place.


Considering how badly our D played this season, I'd say we're damned lucky to have finished the season 9-7. We easily could have been 6-10 or 7-9. I have no grandioso expectations of this team in any given season. Getting into the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl every season is not only impossible, but unrealistic. All I ask of them is to play hard and give it their all and in that respect, I feel they failed not only we fans, but most importantly, themselves, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Good points, HTG. No....9-7 is not where I expected the Steelers to end up, but considering the 5-game slide that occured in the middle of the season, I am just happy they were on the right side of the .500 mark.

All that said, I can safely say that there will be (and SHOULD be) some major changeS in the off-season. And I trust Tomlin and the FO will evaluate and make those changes.

Like someone said earlier, **** happens. Things just did not go our way this season. But let's lick our wounds and move on. Here's to a good draft, a good training camp and good preseason all leading up to an improved and motivated 2010 team ready to go for Lombardi #7!!

HERE WE GO STEELERS....HERE WE GO!! :tt02::tt02:

memphissteelergirl
01-05-2010, 12:27 PM
Oh, and one more thing, while the season was a huge disappointment, it's a stretch to call it failure if you end up over .500....JMHO

madtowndrunkard
01-05-2010, 12:29 PM
That was a bit classless there, plenewken.

I'm not going to "nail" you or anyone else for being a member of the Arians Witch Hunt Club, even though I have not read one single post on this board in the last 3 years which justifies the intense hatred of this man and until I do, I'm going to continue to defend my position with regard to BA and the failures of the Steelers D this season.

3 years of the offense performing below expectations does not warrant a negative reaction towards Bruce Arians?

I think we all pretty much agree we have an elite QB, elite WRs, elite TE, and good RBs'.. Minus this year I'd say we would all agree that our defense definitely did it's job helping the offense and this team succeed. Even the year we won the SB the offense still ranked near the bottom in the league. (20th I think ?) How else do you judge your OC?

Its only fair to look at the talent given to Arians and the points scored by his unit. Given the talent we have offensively and the horrible defenses we faced this season you would have to expect a top 5 offense in terms of scoring. Again - 3rd year in a row under Arians the offense did not perform to expectations. We still expect our defense to bail us out in every game. Past defensive success has produced expectations from our defense that the offense could never meet under the leadership of Bruce Arians.

Its not just the steeler nation that has lost faith in Arians....there are plenty of NFL experts and subjective fans that feel he is a detriment to the team's success. I've been watching football for about 25+ years.... I know I'm not an expert but I think Ive seen enough to know that Arians play calling is not getting it done....and there are plenty of people that agree.

Don't forget he had opportunities to show his offensive genius before he came to Pittsburgh and the results were not any better.

madtowndrunkard
01-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Good points, HTG. No....9-7 is not where I expected the Steelers to end up, but considering the 5-game slide that occured in the middle of the season, I am just happy they were on the right side of the .500 mark.

All that said, I can safely say that there will be (and SHOULD be) some major changeS in the off-season. And I trust Tomlin and the FO will evaluate and make those changes.

Like someone said earlier, **** happens. Things just did not go our way this season. But let's lick our wounds and move on. Here's to a good draft, a good training camp and good preseason all leading up to an improved and motivated 2010 team ready to go for Lombardi #7!!

HERE WE GO STEELERS....HERE WE GO!! :tt02::tt02:


So because we ended up over .500 after losing to KC, Chi, Clev. cinci 2X, Bmore, and Oakland the season is not a failure? I guess Im' on the other side of the fence on this one....I'd argue that the season is a failure for the very fact that we lost to those teams the way we did.....given the talent and expectations we have on this team.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 12:44 PM
I'd argue that the season is a failure for the very fact that we lost to those teams the way we did.....given the talent and expectations we have on this team.

Though the Bungles and Rats are divisional rivals and those games were vital for us to win, they were very close matchups and in fairness *cough* *gag* to the Bungles, their D is vastly improved and looked quite formidable. The Rats D is aging like ours, but still does its job for the most part, unlike . . . .well you know.

You're absolutely right - given the talent and expectations of our D - our once very powerful, intense and turnover forcing machine - I suppose (sadly) we could call our D a failure this season.

plenewken
01-05-2010, 12:57 PM
So because we ended up over .500 after losing to KC, Chi, Clev. cinci 2X, Bmore, and Oakland the season is not a failure? I guess Im' on the other side of the fence on this one....I'd argue that the season is a failure for the very fact that we lost to those teams the way we did.....given the talent and expectations we have on this team.

Finishing 2-4 in our Division is the biggest failure IMO. We should have realistically finished, at worst, 4-2. We know Baltimore, Cincy and Cleveland in and out. Losing to Cincy at home and losing to the Browns in Cleveland were the most unacceptable results this year. They are the main reasons for not making the playoffs.

Now, if you consider one more realistic win, like against Oakland at home, we would have clinched a bye week.

That's why this season is a failure. Not a total failure but a significant one.

memphissteelergirl
01-05-2010, 12:59 PM
So because we ended up over .500 after losing to KC, Chi, Clev. cinci 2X, Bmore, and Oakland the season is not a failure? I guess Im' on the other side of the fence on this one....I'd argue that the season is a failure for the very fact that we lost to those teams the way we did.....given the talent and expectations we have on this team.

Yes, I agree that the Steelers should have taken care of business, especially against teams like Cleveland and Oakland and not having to depend on other teams winning or losing to get us into the playoffs (which didn't happen anyway). But again, ending up on the winning side of .500 is good (not great by any means, mind you), considering the hole the team dug themselves.

TackleMeBen
01-05-2010, 01:12 PM
maybe this season will make them come out next season mean and angry. although i feel the season was disappointing, i dont think it was a failure. it did let tomlin see some issues we have and hopefully he can the FO can address them.

KeiselPower99
01-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Look at the last 8 games of the year. We saw the worst and the best outta this team. 9-7 with a chance of playoffs going into the second game of the final weekend dosent sound like a total disappointment. We saw this team respond by winning 3 games against playoff caliber teams. Hood played good in the later part of the season and Wallace made a name for himself as well.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Ben was not healthy "all season" - he missed the Rats game on November 29th after having his bell rung the week before, and though Dixon played admirably in that game, the D (once again) allowed Flacco to drive down the field late in the game (after the Steelers O put 7 on the board with a little over 6 left in the game) and Cundiff tied it up and won it in OT. Also - I'm sure you know that O constitutes only a portion of a game, healthy QB or not. Our D blew chunks in at least 5 of our losses when given leads by our O late in the 4Q's.

wait a minute? this game is being blamed on the defense too?

how bout the offense throwing a pick in OT to place the ravens in FG range?


The Browns game and the 2nd Bungles game were definitely attributable to our O not being able to put points on the board and I'll give you that.

what about the steelers vaunted offense only being able to hang up 1 td against a team that started 0-6 and allowed the patriots to put 50+ points on them?

how bout hines fumbling away the game winning td?

how bout the offense only being able to put up a single td vs the vikings only to have the defense bail them out because they abandoned a running game that was averaging about 7yds a run?

how bout a wallace fumble, a pick six, and setting the chiefs up inside the 5 yd line and giving them free points?

how bout a pick 6 to the bungles in the 1st game (which proved to be the winning points) and not being able to run out the clock like the 3 previous years?

how bout the offense not being able to score more than 14 points vs. the brian urlacherless bears?

how bout our defense going on a 5 game winning streak while our offense/special teams were giving up a td for 8 straight games?

how bout the 2 t. carter interceptions vs. the 6-1 broncos?

how bout our defense sealing our last 2 games with turnovers vs. the ravens and dolphins?