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steel9guy
01-06-2010, 12:01 AM
Don't you know thats the D's fault. Not the 30 second, three and outs.

I 100% agree with that. I mean the D should be fine playing 13 minutes in the 4th quarter every game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 12:01 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81586d39&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, largely responsible for abandoning the Steelers' long-standing commitment to the run to lean on a heavily pass-oriented system, was the assistant coach who was most critiqued during the season -- not only from outside the organization, but from within. Tomlin apparently wants Arians back -- quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, not surprisingly, is a major supporter of the coordinator -- but the Steelers' front office isn't believed to be totally in agreement with the abrupt change of direction.

The Steelers' 428 rushing attempts were the second-fewest they have had during a 16-game season except for their 394 attempts in 1991. Their 536 passing attempts were the fourth-most in team history. Big changes, indeed, for a franchise that prides itself on the run.

Tomlin isn't saying when more changes might occur. He began meeting with every player on the team Monday and will talk to all staff members after that, a process that could take most of the week.



Nice find Psychoward.....I still will not believe that Arians is gone until its officially announced. This article suggests that Tomlin wants him back, but the Rooney's don't. I still think its 50-50 that Arians is the OC next season.

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 12:05 AM
Any ideas on a list of candidates for our next OC?

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 12:08 AM
Tom Clements anyone?

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:08 AM
I can't wait to see who we bring in.

Given the talent on this offense and the veteran presence I really have to think our next OC is going to be someone with plenty of experience and past success as an OC.

What candidates are out there?

If an experienced OC is hired...that would also likely mean he'll bring in his own staff.i would love to see brian billick if arians is canned.

but another astute poster who was thinking outside the box (i wish i could remember who so i could give them credit) made a great case for the offensive coordinator for the carolina panthers.

An NFL.com article is saying that Tomlin wants to keep Arians but the front office does not. That's probably already been mentioned here???

it has. one thing tomlin has yet to face in his tenure is firing someone. QB coach, kenny is really the 1st time he's had to face anyone leave.

anyways, the great thing about the rooneys is that they will not force a coach to "fire arians" or 'retain lebeau', but they will make strong suggestions and say what they think is best.

but the bottom line is they will ultimately stand by their coach, and let them decide. if you make the right decision, your job is secure for years. if you screw it all up...

well, i wasnt alive the last time a coach screwed it all up. :noidea:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:14 AM
i would like brian billick.

i cant take credit for the poster (and im sorry i forget who) suggested the panthers OC. not looking like he gets fired though.

i suggested the 20 year peanut vendor at the pgh home games who could probably do just as good of a job. perhaps the waterboy? :chuckle:

do we even have any internal offensive assistants in charge of self scouting and breaking down film (im thinking not)?

thats how geniuses and fb gurus such as manginiaus and mcdaniel broke into the coaching ranks.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Arians, not Arains.

Hope this helps.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 12:25 AM
yes the defence was bad during the 4th quarter, but they were ranked #5 total in the league hilst offense was #11....

defence statistically did better than the offense in many ways, vise versa.

just because ben passed for 4000 yards does not mean bruce arians is awesome, he passes for that many because he threw for that many, look at redzone %...

bruce arians never should be labelled offensive mastermind of the 2008 steelers, it was defence the whole season with ben at the end of games.

goodbye bruce your contract is now terminated

You DO know the defense's ranking in the 4th quarter, right?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 12:26 AM
This rumor is going nowhere. Apparently Jim Wexell has a good source that says it looks like Bruce Arians started this rumor and leaked it to the media himself. Arians was just screwing with the media. :noidea:

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 12:28 AM
Holmes doesn't divide a locker room or throw his quarterback under the bus. Holmes' attitude seems perfectly fine to me. Maybe Hines' attitude is the one that needs adjusting...

Hines is.. difficult.

You have to understand the Korean culture to understand why he's the way he is.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 12:33 AM
But really, I guess this is the way the new generation argues, I said at the beginning I was glad Arians was gone, so I have no idea why you're bringing up that I'm defending him. I understand when you have no point you have to deflect, but you could at least do it better and not be so obvious.

Steeldude
01-06-2010, 12:33 AM
so another season of al davis-ball? hurray :doh:

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
so another season of al davis-ball? hurray :doh:

Hey I'll take some more offensive records, lets just make sure our prissy pathetic defense doesn't lose more than 3 games for us next year.

Maybe the little babies can play long enough before their diapers get too soiled to be able to run around the field and actually tackle someone.

LVSteelersfan
01-06-2010, 12:49 AM
As said many times, I don't hate Arians. I hate Arians in the red zone. I hate 3rd and short with an empty backfield set especially since Ben seems to get sacked more often than not in that set and it has taken us out of field goal range more than once. I am ambivalent if he stays or goes.

Steeldude
01-06-2010, 12:51 AM
The "rumor" or story was first reported on ESPN radio and broke by an ESPN radio host who covers the Steelers as part of his job.That doesn't neccesarily make it true ( or untrue) but it certainly makes it newsworthy. And to suggest that such a story isn't worth discussing on a Steelers message board is laughable. :toofunny:

revs playing the trolling dictator again?

i guess everyone should submit their posts/threads to the self-professed know-it-all revs before posting.

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 12:53 AM
Hey I'll take some more offensive records, lets just make sure our prissy pathetic defense doesn't lose more than 3 games for us next year.

Maybe the little babies can play long enough before their diapers get too soiled to be able to run around the field and actually tackle someone.


Offensive records? How about scoring? Anyone care about that anymore?

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:57 AM
^^^^:troll:^^^^

:laughing:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 01:04 AM
*sniff sniff*

:scratchchin: i smell troll dust.

a blue troll at that :troll:

A-Gray47
01-06-2010, 01:06 AM
Any ideas on a list of candidates for our next OC?

Just dreaming ----- Leach?

TTU runs a spread offense suitable for our standards as of late....incorporate a run scheme to suit Mendy/FWP(?), and I think we could be volatile.

Would anyone hate on the idea of Charlie Weiss? haha, can't believe I even typed that...dude grosses me out on the sideline but he is an offensive genius.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 01:08 AM
Offensive records? How about scoring? Anyone care about that anymore?

Considering your name, were you just obliterated before making this post?

How long have you watched the Steelers? Before 2005 would you have said "If the offense scored at least 23 points a game we should win."?

No? well you're lying.

Look I know it doesn't fit into your world view, and it's very, very hard for some people to be introspective, I get that, so I won't insult you anymore, but do some research first at least.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=PIT is a good place to start your research, even if only you learn something I feel like my job is done.

Preacher
01-06-2010, 01:11 AM
P.reacher, you are out thinking yourself like arians, and trying to get too fancy with linguistics and 'schemes".

a cb is either up on the line of scrimmage or off. we do not have on the line of scrimmage, bump nrun, press coverage corners. the closest we have is ike.

this is just like in SB XL.

the entire first half people bitched because ike taylor was playing 10 yards off of darrell jackson and giving up little 6-7 yard passes. (if you dont believe me dig up the sb gameday thread).

but it is what it is. we draft players to fit the scheme. its the same way for the offense. miller, holmes, and hines may not like missing the pro bowl every year, but they sure as hell better be able to learn how to run block or they wont be a steeler for too long.

ben has earned his $100 mil contract, but it is more for wins than it is for 4000 yd passing seasons.

ike taylor has been kept around for more than dropping interceptions.

these guys fit the "scheme".

the only guy who no longer seems to fit the scheme is the guy who is currently the topic of this thread.

i got dan, art II, and tomlin in my corner of belief. not sure about the rest of y'all. :noidea:


Tony Tony Tony.

Ok. I guess English lessons are needed here, or maybe lessons in reading in context.

1. I am speaking of cover 2 vs man. That has nothing to do with press or bump and run. In man coverage, you can come up on the line and bump someone, or stay back like in Lebeau's schemes. cover 2 vs. man can both be played, using bump and run... or simple pres coverage, OR playing off the LOS. In our scheme, it HAS to be off the LOS, whether it is man or zone. Come on Tony, you keep talking about football 101. You should know this stuff.

2. If we are playing zone, cover 2, etc., then you can drop a LB, or in some cases, a lineman into a short zone. Take away the underneath stuff. Again, you should know this.

3. You can play a mixture of the two. Man with a zone over the top (true cover 2). Cover 3, man with a QB spy, double coverage, etc. etc. etc.

So, may I suggest you take a step back and rethink your comments here. I never mentioned press coverage because we don't play it. you simply assumed it, and assumed wrongly.

and BTW, Mike Tomlin does NOT want Arians to leave, according to most press reports.

but at least you are a step closer now to the discussion. We are talking schemes. Now, if we can just discuss why Lebeau's scheme has been thrown on and scored on repeatedly in the fourth quarter this year and part of last.

I grant you Troy P. was out. I never said anything otherwise. But he isn't the elixir fix all, because it was happening while he was playing as well, just not as much.

So Tony, why is it, that our defense, even when Troy IS playing, has been driven on and scored on?







(I think the over/under is 25 words before "Arians" or "offense" (in relation to our offense) is uttered.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 01:12 AM
^^^^:troll:^^^^

:laughing:

See the definition of troll has been so twisted, it's now being used as, "He has a differing view, so it's wrong." all I was doing was telling him how to spell Arians, that wasn't trying to get any sort of emotional response out of him, which is what a troll really does.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 01:17 AM
The problem is a lot of people worship sports like religion, and so you can't rationally talk to them anymore about it.

All 3 phases sucked at different times this year, that's fact, get over it.

Edit: Even though his name is Preacher this isn't directed towards him lol

Preacher
01-06-2010, 01:19 AM
Wow--

The Arians haters would have you think we didn't score any points this year.


They would also be shocked to find out that Arian's offenses are responsible for 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history. (2007 and 2009).

Preacher
01-06-2010, 01:19 AM
The problem is a lot of people worship sports like religion, and so you can't rationally talk to them anymore about it.

All 3 phases sucked at different times this year, that's fact, get over it.

Edit: Even though his name is Preacher this isn't directed towards him lol

:chuckle: Didn't take it that way. :thumbsup:

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 01:21 AM
the Steelers ordered at least 100 more passes than runs. That, despite the fact they almost never were in must-pass mode, trailing by double-digits only once.
this

The Steelers finished tied for 21st in red-zone offense — below the likes of Tampa Bay — after finishing a mediocre 15th last season. They failed to put away several games because of red-zone meltdowns.

But that's not the only factor at play here. "Points scored" is the most important offensive statistic, and the Steelers don't score enough. In Arians' three seasons, they have yet to finish in the top third of the league. In a full 25 percent of their games this season (four of 16), they scored one offensive touchdown or fewer.
and this is my beefs with arians ... could it be that our run game has sucked because they DON'T spend much time in practice on the run game? :noidea:

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 01:24 AM
We can all agree there, it's just the people that ignore our defensive problems and blame it all on our offense.

Preacher
01-06-2010, 01:26 AM
this




and this is my beefs with arians ... could it be that our run game has sucked because they DON'T spend much time in practice on the run game? :noidea:


I understand what your saying...

but I just think it very comical of some Steelers fans that we have a OC who has helped his team be in the top 11 of all times points for a steeler offense twice in three years, and he is blasted for not scoring more points.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 01:37 AM
I understand what your saying...

but I just think it very comical of some Steelers fans that we have a OC who has helped his team be in the top 11 of all times points for a steeler offense twice in three years, and he is blasted for not scoring more points.

Because when you grow up your whole life knowing "run first, defense first." it's ingrained in your head and very hard to separate yourself from that learned reality, so you have to blame it on the things besides that, because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Psychology 101. Too many people can't question their own beliefs, it makes them uncomfortable.

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 01:42 AM
I understand what your saying...

but I just think it very comical of some Steelers fans that we have a OC who has helped his team be in the top 11 of all times points for a steeler offense twice in three years, and he is blasted for not scoring more points.

well of course your gonna score MORE points when you go pass happy compared to a BALL CONTROL offense... but by todays standards 23 points a game ain't much to brag about...especially when you can only muster 24 against a team that averaged giving up 26 (kc)....if the steelers were putting up 35 points a game and winning by 10 points or more every sunday...nobody would be complaining about the O...but thier not...

Preacher
01-06-2010, 01:47 AM
well of course your gonna score MORE points when you go pass happy compared to a BALL CONTROL offense... but by todays standards 23 points a game ain't much to brag about...especially when you can only muster 24 against a team that averaged giving up 26 (kc)....if the steelers were putting up 35 points a game and winning by 10 points or more every sunday...nobody would be complaining about the O...but thier not...


But when we average that much, AND have a top 4 TOP... that means we have outplayed all but 10 other offenses in 70 plus years of our history.

In that case, shouldn't the blame for losses be put on the defense at all?

That is what I simply do not understand about the mentality right now. People want MORE points scored, by going BACK to the running game, when our DEFENSE wasn't able to protect leads the offense gave them.

MOP, I am not trying to incite, or flame or anything like that. I seriously cannot understand the logic.

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 01:54 AM
But when we average that much, AND have a top 4 TOP... that means we have outplayed all but 10 other offenses in 70 plus years of our history.

In that case, shouldn't the blame for losses be put on the defense at all?

That is what I simply do not understand about the mentality right now. People want MORE points scored, by going BACK to the running game, when our DEFENSE wasn't able to protect leads the offense gave them.

MOP, I am not trying to incite, or flame or anything like that. I seriously cannot understand the logic.
that time of possecion stat is deceiving preach.... 8 Times the O got the ball back right after a punt ,KO,or pick 6 so thats like getting an extra drive...not to mention the not so special teams always gave the opponents short fields to work with. which resulted in quicker scoring drives for the oppenents...:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 02:00 AM
also...i'm certainly not giving the D a pass on this season , but arians O system and play calling has been suspect for 3 years now. if lebeau's D shows the same sustained pattern of choking next season, he'll be a target of the lynch mob as well.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 02:00 AM
that time of possecion stat is deceiving preach.... 8 Times the O got the ball back right after a punt ,KO,or pick 6 so thats like getting an extra drive...not to mention the not so special teams always gave the opponents short fields to work with. which resulted in quicker scoring drives for the oppenents...:noidea:

How exactly? We held onto the ball the most except for 3 other teams, what else can you take from that?

One of the big problems here I think is that people are saying we think the offense was great this year, and we aren't. The offense obviously has issues, and I'm glad BA is gone, but the offense was NOT the reason we aren't in the playoffs right now, are they the reason we lost a few games? Absolutely, but it's a team game with 3 phases, and all 3 have to execute.

The facts and numbers are right there for all the 4th quarter meltdowns so I don't know what else needs to be said.

Bluedust
01-06-2010, 02:02 AM
also...i'm certainly not giving the D a pass on this season , but arians O has been suspect for 3 years now. if lebeau's D shows the same sustained pattern of choking next season, he'll be a target of the lynch mob as well.

Yes, I'm in NO way saying fire Lebeau, but a few posters here only seem to work in extremes and so that's where my last post came from.

I do think BA is inept, but I think our offense was pretty damn good this year and if our defense didn't meltdown in the 4th we'd be in the playoffs right now.

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 02:16 AM
If it is true I wonder who will be the next OC that Steelers fans can gang up on when they lose a game lol.

Repeat the lie... that makes it true.

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 02:28 AM
How exactly? We held onto the ball the most except for 3 other teams, what else can you take from that?

One of the big problems here I think is that people are saying we think the offense was great this year, and we aren't. The offense obviously has issues, and I'm glad BA is gone, but the offense was NOT the reason we aren't in the playoffs right now, are they the reason we lost a few games? Absolutely, but it's a team game with 3 phases, and all 3 have to execute.

The facts and numbers are right there for all the 4th quarter meltdowns so I don't know what else needs to be said. how ? well if the steelers have the ball for say 3 minutes, then punt, the punt is returned for a td.... then they kickoff to the steelers AGAIN, and say they have 5 minute drive, ben throws a pick 6, they kickoff the steelers hold the ball for another 5 minutes... there's 13 minutes of TOP for us yet 0 for them..yet the other team scored twice...:noidea:
or say the steelers go on a 7 minute scoring drive, KO, the ball is returned to the 50, they score a fg in 3 minutes....etc...etc....
the real telling stats are 1st downs and 3rd down % and red zone TD'S...

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 02:29 AM
Well if this is true, then it's definitely his situational football and red zone inefficiencies that got him fired. No one will believe me (even though I've posted this about 100X), but I've complained about both of them all season. I just refused...and still refuse...to place all of the woes of the team at his feet, as many in the "braintrust" have done. Still though, just like with most moves the Steelers make, I trust their judgment 100%, because they know what is best for the team.

You'll forgive me if I find these sorts of posts to be just plain weird. Criticizing Arians is just irrational "braintrust" scapegoating... until the the Front Office thinks the same way. Then it's wise management.

Don't get me wrong, we're just fans shooting the shit on these boards, and it would have to get pretty ugly (think Redskins or Raiders) fan-wise before the Steelers decision-making was actually affected by what we had to say. That doesn't mean we can't discuss these things, and do so with keen eyes and sound logic.

I'll never understand the automatic, nearly autonomic reflex by so many here to attack anyone who criticizes the coaches. What do get out of that? Do the Rooneys give out Toadie Points with every supportive post?

Side question: Why does a post by X-Terminator say " Last edited by HometownGal; Yesterday at 12:27 PM." beneath it? Mods can edit people's posts?

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 02:54 AM
Wow--

The Arians haters would have you think we didn't score any points this year.


They would also be shocked to find out that Arian's offenses are responsible for 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history. (2007 and 2009).
but none of that matters preacher ... if i went out and shattered my 5.0 / 40, with a 4.8, i might feel good about it but its still not gonna help me win any races.....:chuckle:
its all about keeping up with the jones's....

Rick5895
01-06-2010, 04:23 AM
This is an evolving Offense. B.A. IMO (even though I am not a supporter) should be back for at least 1 more year. But.... The red zone efficeincy needs to improve, apparently were 21st in red zone offense, not good enough. We scored only 1 td in 4 different games. Situational offense was troublesome.
Hopefully these things will be corrected, I saw less empty sets in the Miami game, saw some screens. Maybe bruce is adjusting , since the Cleveland game the O seems to be better at scoring and taking advantage of what the D gives them.

Rick5895
01-06-2010, 04:32 AM
I understand what your saying...

but I just think it very comical of some Steelers fans that we have a OC who has helped his team be in the top 11 of all times points for a steeler offense twice in three years, and he is blasted for not scoring more points.

For me it's not about the points total, it's about not scoring TD's when the opportunity is there (red zone). Those times are what hurt this team offensively.
It happened all season but the 18-12 loss to Cinci, 4 times inside the 12, 4 FG.
In the Raiders game ( yes our D sucked in the 4th) 3 red zone trips in the first half, 3 total points.
When in the red zone with a shorter field you need to keep a back in, it holds the LB's and gives the receivers more room, when you empty out the backfield every one drops back and less open field (I know that is an over simplification, but I am sure you can get my drift here). That is the primary beef I have with Arians, though I would like to see him back, the O is evolving. I would like to see what happens next season with the O we have and a healthy, younger D.

mesaSteeler
01-06-2010, 05:22 AM
http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2010/01/05/will-arians-stay-or-go/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29
View From The Press Box

Will Arians stay or go?
January 5th, 2010

Here is what we know about Bruce Arians: he is still employed by the Steelers though coach Mike Tomlin appears to be at least considering cutting ties with the oft-criticized offensive coordinator.

If Arians were definitely coming back for the 2010 season, Tomlin presumably would have issued a statement saying so after 1250 ESPN reported today that there are “strong rumblings” Arians will be fired.

The Steelers have refuted the report, which came out after Tomlin’s news conference, and Arians spent the day working at the team’s South Side practice facility.

That is not to say Tomlin won’t eventually go in another direction with a unit that ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in passing and total offense but was in the bottom half of the league in third down conversions and touchdowns in the red zone.

One thing that may not bode well for Arians: Tomlin said the Steelers need to cut down on the number of times quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is hit.

That could be translated into Tomlin saying the Steelers need to emphasize the run more than it has been since Arians became the offensive coordinator in 2007. (About time. Arians idiot offense has taken years off Ben's career. - mesa)

But Tomlin also said today that one thing his first head-coaching job has taught him is the importance of not making rash decisions when it comes to personnel.

He is in the process of holding one-on-one interviews with his players. After he is finished with those, Tomlin said he will do the same with his assistant coaches.

“It kind of provides insight into moving forward so these are very valued meetings that I’m having right now,” Tomlin said.

If he is sincere about making critical decisions only after he has done his due diligence then Tomlin has not yet decided whether Arians will stay or go.

Stay tuned.
Filed under: Steelers Comment (0)

zulater
01-06-2010, 05:59 AM
Arians, not Arains.

Hope this helps.

No it doesn't, because I can't edit the title. :noidea:

But I think people know who the thread is about all the same.

SH-Rock
01-06-2010, 06:04 AM
The suspense is killing me.

zulater
01-06-2010, 06:15 AM
Yes, I'm in NO way saying fire Lebeau, but a few posters here only seem to work in extremes and so that's where my last post came from.

I do think BA is inept, but I think our offense was pretty damn good this year and if our defense didn't meltdown in the 4th we'd be in the playoffs right now.


You think BA is inept, so what's your argument with the column that was posted? :noidea:

Here's my take. I've never said Arians is inept. I think he's competent. But I also think he's at best a C+ maybe B- coach. I want better, and I think the Steelers should want better too. Roethlisberger needs to grow as a quarterback, it's my opinion that Arians can't get Ben to that next level because I think there's a certain co dependency between them where Ben is on the same level or above Bruce. I know pure speculation and not expressed particuarly well, but bottom line I don't think the dynamics of the Ben- Arains relationship is condusive to the growth that's needed in Ben's game. Arians has taken Ben as far as he's capable of taking him already so it's time for the next man up.

So in the end I think Bruce was good for Ben, the right man at the right time. But now Ben needs less of an enabler and more of a taskmaster as his OC otherwise these 50 sacks seasons are going to spell the end of Ben's NFL career far too early.

zulater
01-06-2010, 06:21 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/1026052-66.stm


Steelers coach Mike Tomlin made all the predictable points in his season-ending session with the local sporting media yesterday. He talked of a "somber meeting" with his players Monday after their 9-7 finish left them out of the playoffs. He took "responsibility for everything" for the team falling short of its goal of winning another "Lombardi." He promised to make "appropriate changes" before next season.

But Tomlin didn't deliver the news that many people in Steelers Nation most wanted to hear. He didn't fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

At least not yet.

You almost could hear the screams of anger around town, across the country and throughout the world in all places where the Terrible Towel is considered sacred.

At least two people are happy for now, though: Ben Roethlisberger and I.

And one of our opinions really should matter.

The Arians dismissal still could happen, of course. ESPN Radio 1250 reported yesterday afternoon that Tomlin will fire him, perhaps before the end of the week. For his part, Tomlin announced that quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson is retiring but wouldn't discuss his plans for the rest of his staff, begging off the topic until after he meets with each coach later this week.

I'm hoping the radio report is wrong. I can't think of one good reason why the Rooneys and/or Tomlin would make that move with Arians. They are too smart to try to placate the frustrated masses by giving them his head. Arians doesn't deserve that. Letting him go would be a huge mistake. It wouldn't rectify what really ails the Steelers. It only would add to their troubles.

Listen ... . There are those screams again.

I'm sorry, I've never seen as much irrational animosity directed at one coordinator as there was toward Arians this season. In a lot of ways, his offense was magnificent. Roethlisberger had his best year as a quarterback. Wide receivers Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes, tight end Heath Miller and running back Rashard Mendenhall put up huge numbers. Certainly, Arians' offense isn't the primary reason the Steelers are out of the postseason. It ranks a distant third behind the overrated defense and the underachieving special teams on the list of causes for the mess that Tomlin is trying to sort through this week.

Today's NFL isn't your father's NFL. It's no longer strictly about power football -- "3 yards and a cloud of dust" if you will. It's about being able to beat increasingly complicated defensive schemes by throwing the football often and with great precision.

The NFL's top 10 passing teams this season were Houston, Indianapolis, New England, New Orleans, San Diego, Dallas, Green Bay, Minnesota, Philadelphia and the Steelers. How much do you want to bet that one team from that list wins the Super Bowl next month and a second team plays in it?

The top 10 rushing teams were the New York Jets, Tennessee, Carolina, Miami, Baltimore, New Orleans, Dallas, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Jacksonville. Only New Orleans and Dallas from that group would appear to be capable of winning the title.

Arians is no kid -- he's 57 -- but he has kept up with the times.

He gets it.

It's hard to say that same thing about many Steelers fans. They conveniently forget that Arians' offense was plenty good enough to help the team win the championship last season, especially during a magical fourth-quarter drive in Super Bowl XLIII. But they can't wait to blame him for the failures this season, unfair as that blame is. If I received a nickel every time somebody said he needs to be more committed to the running game, I'd be a wealthy man. It's ridiculous.

Do those people really believe it was Arians' fault that the Steelers blew five fourth-quarter leads in losses this season?

Roethlisberger is another guy who gets it. You can say he has a biased opinion about the passing game, and I won't argue. Any great quarterback -- and Big Ben clearly is among the two or three greatest in the game today -- likes throwing the ball more than handing it off. It's no wonder he loves his offense just as it is.

But Roethlisberger has been extraordinarily productive under Arians. This season, he threw for a team-record 4,328 yards with a 100.5 passer rating. He had 26 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. It's indisputable that he and his offense did their part and more to help the team try to get back to the playoffs and have a chance to defend its title.

But there's more to it than just numbers.

Roethlisberger has a wonderful working relationship with Arians. That should not be underestimated. The Steelers have $102 million invested in their quarterback. They should be doing everything they can -- within reason -- to keep him happy.

Firing Arians won't do that.

Nor will making Roethlisberger work with a new coordinator and learn a new system when there really was nothing wrong with his offense as it was.

That's not just wrong.

It's unnecessary.

Ron Cook can be reached at rcook@post-gazette.com.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/1026052-66.stm#ixzz0bpm59gU0

Vincent
01-06-2010, 06:34 AM
Fire cook too.

SteelStang
01-06-2010, 06:43 AM
While Cook makes valid points for retaining BA, my bigger concern at the moment is Kenny retiring. I thought he was going to replace BA and if not, he seemed to be a real positive for Ben.

lardlad
01-06-2010, 06:47 AM
Fire cook too.

I am with you.

I love how people who support Arians mention the huge stats that went up this season. Never mentioning how many times they stalled in the red zone because his short play calling sucks. He moved the ball well, but didn't score nearly as much as they should have. And the "Magical" drive in the SB was all Ben. Arians had very little to do with it, as with many other 2min drills Ben ran. How many goal to go's ended up with 3pts. Or how many short fields ended up with 3pts or sacks out of FG range.

BlastFurnace
01-06-2010, 07:01 AM
I haven't been a big Arians supporter, but I don't think he deserves to be fired. I think a lot of the redzone problems...especially those inside of the 5 yard line are problems with the O-line than anything else.

Zerlein and Ligaseshky, on the other hand, should have been fired on Monday.

If I were to approach the Steelers offseason, I would do the following:

1. Look to replace aging veterans that have clearly slipped...especially on defense.
2. Look to restore the "Band of Brothers" attitude of togetherness within the team
3. Hire an O-line coach that has a solid background of developing lineman...something that Zerlein did not have.
4. Hire a ST coach that has a history of coaching good ST's. Something Lig did not have.
5. Find a real CB to complement Ike on the other side. Gay will get abused next year as well. He's not starting material.
6. Prepare for FA and the Draft.

My list does not include to fire Arians.

WH
01-06-2010, 07:05 AM
Sports writers are those trolls that you never get to ban.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 07:23 AM
You'll forgive me if I find these sorts of posts to be just plain weird. Criticizing Arians is just irrational "braintrust" scapegoating... until the the Front Office thinks the same way. Then it's wise management.

Don't get me wrong, we're just fans shooting the shit on these boards, and it would have to get pretty ugly (think Redskins or Raiders) fan-wise before the Steelers decision-making was actually affected by what we had to say. That doesn't mean we can't discuss these things, and do so with keen eyes and sound logic.

I'll never understand the automatic, nearly autonomic reflex by so many here to attack anyone who criticizes the coaches. What do get out of that? Do the Rooneys give out Toadie Points with every supportive post?

Side question: Why does a post by X-Terminator say " Last edited by HometownGal; Yesterday at 12:27 PM." beneath it? Mods can edit people's posts?

:applaudit: :applaudit: :applaudit: :applaudit: :applaudit:

I think I like you bro.....of course, in the most heterosexual way possible. :chuckle:


Rockon

plenewken
01-06-2010, 07:24 AM
But when we average that much, AND have a top 4 TOP... that means we have outplayed all but 10 other offenses in 70 plus years of our history.

In that case, shouldn't the blame for losses be put on the defense at all?

That is what I simply do not understand about the mentality right now. People want MORE points scored, by going BACK to the running game, when our DEFENSE wasn't able to protect leads the offense gave them.

MOP, I am not trying to incite, or flame or anything like that. I seriously cannot understand the logic.

TOP alone means squat.
Take Minnesota and the Steelers, both have an avg TOP of 32:51 per game. Minnesota scored, on average, 6.4 more points per game than the Steelers. Tell me how many more games we'd have won this season with 6 more pts on the board.

At least, when our D got burned, they got burned quickly with big plays, so our Offense got the ball back sooner. Problem is we couldn't score as quickly as our opponents and too often, we had to settle for FGs vs. TDs.

dyce22
01-06-2010, 08:13 AM
Ok...I understand the defense wasn't up to par. The special teams absolutely sucked. The offense put up huge yardage numbers. I get it.

What I don't understand is, why does any of that give Arians' a pass? The yardage was high, sure...but where was the situation football? The red zone efficiency? The third and short conversions? The PLAY-ACTION pass?

Sure, 4,000 yards, two 1,000 yard recievers, and a 1,000 yard RB is nice. The stats prove we have one of the few elite offenses in the league. But look closely. We lost THREE games within 15 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Sure, the defense and special teams surrendered points, but come on...if we had run the ball THREE more times in those games, there is NO 15 seconds left!!!! The yardage is nice. What Arians' has done with our offense proves that he can actually coach a high powered offense, but what he lacks is the knowledge of how to play SITUATIONAL football.

Can the Arians' supporters please explain to me how you can justify keeping him?

memphissteelergirl
01-06-2010, 08:15 AM
I am with you.

I love how people who support Arians mention the huge stats that went up this season. Never mentioning how many times they stalled in the red zone because his short play calling sucks. He moved the ball well, but didn't score nearly as much as they should have. And the "Magical" drive in the SB was all Ben. Arians had very little to do with it, as with many other 2min drills Ben ran. How many goal to go's ended up with 3pts. Or how many short fields ended up with 3pts or sacks out of FG range.

Agreed. Cook's article made a good case for BA but the fact is there have been times when he's made some LOUSY play calls (a 20 yard pass attempt on a 3rd and 2? Please.) I'm sorry, but it's time to get back to basics. No matter how prolific a passing game a team has, it has GOT to be balanced by a solid running game. And IMO the Steelers have gotten away from that.

vasteeler
01-06-2010, 08:17 AM
Ok...I understand the defense wasn't up to par. The special teams absolutely sucked. The offense put up huge yardage numbers. I get it.

What I don't understand is, why does any of that give Arians' a pass? The yardage was high, sure...but where was the situation football? The red zone efficiency? The third and short conversions? The PLAY-ACTION pass?

Sure, 4,000 yards, two 1,000 yard recievers, and a 1,000 yard RB is nice. The stats prove we have one of the few elite offenses in the league. But look closely. We lost THREE games within 15 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Sure, the defense and special teams surrendered points, but come on...if we had ran the ball THREE more times in those games, there is NO 15 seconds left!!!! The yardage is nice. What Arians' has done with our offense proves that he can actually coach a high powered offense, but what he lacks is the knowledge of how to play SITUATIONAL football.

Can the Arians' supporters please explain to me how you can justify keeping him?

I think there are about 1000 threads to give you that info we dont need another one

dyce22
01-06-2010, 08:19 AM
Thanks for being an ass. I know there are a thousand Arians' threads. They all say the same thing though. I'm looking for someone who can look beyond the yardage and answer my questions. If you have nothing to add, please don't post.

saveus1011
01-06-2010, 08:23 AM
I don't care about offensive records, if we score 23 points or more, or any of that bull in today's "stats matter" world because at the end of the day, there's still only one that truly matters.

And even though we won a Super Bowl with him, I don't think Arians gives us the best chance to compete year after year.

SteelCurtain
01-06-2010, 08:24 AM
But there's more to it than just numbers.


He's right there is more to it than just numbers. This is a perfect case, where stats lie. Ben, Hines, Heath, Wallace, and Holmes put up those large numbers in spite of Arians play calling, not because of it. How often do we see a passing play that eats up big yardage that was a no kidding designed pass play? Hardly ever. Most of the yardage was created by Ben scrambling and the receivers running impromptu routes to find an opening in the coverage. We have the talent, but Arians just couldn't capitalize on it with his style of offense and his horrid situational play calling... FIRE HIM :wave:

plenewken
01-06-2010, 08:28 AM
Ok...I understand the defense wasn't up to par. The special teams absolutely sucked. The offense put up huge yardage numbers. I get it.

What I don't understand is, why does any of that give Arians' a pass? The yardage was high, sure...but where was the situation football? The red zone efficiency? The third and short conversions? The PLAY-ACTION pass?

Sure, 4,000 yards, two 1,000 yard recievers, and a 1,000 yard RB is nice. The stats prove we have one of the few elite offenses in the league. But look closely. We lost THREE games within 15 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Sure, the defense and special teams surrendered points, but come on...if we had ran the ball THREE more times in those games, there is NO 15 seconds left!!!! The yardage is nice. What Arians' has done with our offense proves that he can actually coach a high powered offense, but what he lacks is the knowledge of how to play SITUATIONAL football.

Can the Arians' supporters please explain to me how you can justify keeping him?

Ask them also why the offense regularly manages to put 7pts on the board with less than 2mn left but has a hard time doing it during the other 58mn.

Bobby_Walden
01-06-2010, 08:31 AM
I haven't been a big Arians supporter, but I don't think he deserves to be fired. I think a lot of the redzone problems...especially those inside of the 5 yard line are problems with the O-line than anything else.

Zerlein and Ligaseshky, on the other hand, should have been fired on Monday.

If I were to approach the Steelers offseason, I would do the following:

1. Look to replace aging veterans that have clearly slipped...especially on defense.
2. Look to restore the "Band of Brothers" attitude of togetherness within the team
3. Hire an O-line coach that has a solid background of developing lineman...something that Zerlein did not have.
4. Hire a ST coach that has a history of coaching good ST's. Something Lig did not have.
5. Find a real CB to complement Ike on the other side. Gay will get abused next year as well. He's not starting material.
6. Prepare for FA and the Draft.

My list does not include to fire Arians.

Excellent Post. I agree with all but Arians part.

I think Arians should go mostly because the 3rd and 1's where we were empty backfield, tells volumes. I Know Ben is our best player, but if you cannot run for a first down on 3rd and 1...that is an OC's fault.

Also...the scoring is the real issue. Arians put up yards but not points. That is bad.

Red Zone O was bad. You simply have to punch it in often to be a powerhouse offense.

I hope the Steelers get a guy who can run or pass, whenever it is called for.

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Great article. And it shows numbers can be twisted in any way. The writer did a great job in showing through statistics why Arians should not be back, while many posters are using numbers to show why he SHOULD be back. Bottom line is though, I go by what I see on the field, and what I'm seeing out of his play calling is "below the line". What I have seen our of his play calling is:

- an offense that couldnt score a TD against the Browns
- an offense that was inept in the second Bengals game, and if I remember correctly they didnt score a TD in that game either
- An Oakland game where we failed to score in the redzone
- The famous sweep play call in OT at Kansas City
- A horrible passing play call after the 2 minute warning in the 2nd Baltimore game. Running the ball would have ran the clock to 1:20 before we punted. Instead the ball was picked off and ran back into FG range by Baltimore, and if not for a pretty mysterious pass interference call we would have given that game back to the Ravens
- A horrible game plan for Donald Dixon in the first Baltimore game.
- A 5 wide empty backfield set that gets Ben sacked 90% of the time.

Those are just what I can think of off the top of my head. Feel free to add to the list.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 08:42 AM
Wow--

The Arians haters would have you think we didn't score any points this year.


They would also be shocked to find out that Arian's offenses are responsible for 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history. (2007 and 2009).


TEN (0-1) 0 7 0 3 0 10 - 1 TD
PIT (1-0) 0 7 0 3 3 13


PIT (1-1) 7 0 7 0 14 - 2 TD
CHI (1-1) 0 7 0 10 17


PIT (6-5) 0 7 3 7 0 17 - 2 TD
BAL (6-5) 7 7 0 3 3 20

BAL (8-7) 3 7 10 0 20 - 2 TD
PIT (8-7) 6 14 0 3 23

CIN (7-2) 6 0 6 6 18 - 0 TD
PIT (6-3) 3 6 0 3 12

PIT (6-7) 0 3 3 0 6 - 0 TD
CLE (2-11) 3 10 0 0 13


That's six games where they scored a total of 7 TDs, 12 FGs. That's not exactly an offensive explosion. You might note two of the games they scored 0, that's zero TDs. And, you might also notice absent from the list, the '85 Bears, or the '86 Giants, or the '99 Ravens. Also note, that the Titans, after the Steelers struggled to score 17 in extra innings against them, went on to surrender 30 or more points in 4 of their next 5 games, including 59 points to the Pats. The 8 TDs the Pats scored in that game, were more than the Steelers scored in the 6 games listed above. The Steelers scored a total [B]82/B] pts. in the 6 games above(or 23 more than the Pats in that one game, against a team the Steelers labored to score 13 on in 5 quarter). :banging:


They had some games where they put up a lot of yards, sure. That'll happen in a wide open offense with lots of talent. If you don't convert those into TDs, they are essentially empty yards, and paper stats. And horrible red zone and 3rd down efficiency. That is part of the problem with BA's offense. It's pretty much feast or famine. In the games illustrated above.....mostly famine. Especially the last two in bold.



Rockon

vasteeler
01-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Thanks for being an ass. I know there are a thousand Arians' threads. They all say the same thing though. I'm looking for someone who can look beyond the yardage and answer my questions. If you have nothing to add, please don't post.

i wasnt trying to be an ass but when you look in to the forums and see 1000 BA threads
it starts to get aggrivating. sorry to have offended you :drink:

T&B fan
01-06-2010, 08:57 AM
and this is my beefs with arians ... could it be that our run game has sucked because they DON'T spend much time in practice on the run game? :noidea:


why practice what your not going to use . . BA loves the pass and thats all you need to know . next yr we can maybe bring in a few more wide outs and go 7 wide . :noidea:

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 08:59 AM
Considering your name, were you just obliterated before making this post?

How long have you watched the Steelers? Before 2005 would you have said "If the offense scored at least 23 points a game we should win."?

No? well you're lying.

Look I know it doesn't fit into your world view, and it's very, very hard for some people to be introspective, I get that, so I won't insult you anymore, but do some research first at least.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=PIT is a good place to start your research, even if only you learn something I feel like my job is done.

You probably don't want to bring up stats to argue your point. They actually don't support Arians case at all. Look at points scored by our offense. We are in near the middle of the league. Now look at our schedule....we played the 3 worst defenses in the league 4 times. We also played Chicago, Tennesee, and Miami....3 teams who's defenses struggled mightily.

Tennesee - 13 points -
chicago - 14 points
Detroit - 28 points
Cleveland - 27
KC - 24
Oak - 24
Cleveland - 6

Whats are redzone offense ranked ??? 30th ?

An offense as loaded with talent as ours should not struggle to score points against bad teams. In fact there are very few teams our offense should ever struggle against....especially this year when there really was not a great defense. We didn't even play the best two defenses when it comes to points.

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 08:59 AM
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I've never gotten the Arians support based on his body of work over the past 3 season. Theres no question he would have been fired last year if we don't make a playoff run.

dyce22
01-06-2010, 09:04 AM
i wasnt trying to be an ass but when you look in to the forums and see 1000 BA threads
it starts to get aggrivating. sorry to have offended you :drink:

You're a stand-up guy...I like that. Thanks for the apology. The only reason I made this thread really though, is because I don't frequently post and I wanted my question to have a specific answer. I really didn't know which of the thousands of Arians threads was likely to give me that, so I just created my own with a specific question. There are a ton of Arians threads though...and they all pretty much say the same things, so I can understand how that can be irritating.

supa_fly_steeler
01-06-2010, 09:06 AM
arians is incredibly inconsistent like going 5 wide reciever sets on 3rd down knowing it's a pass.... dumbass, he should go back to college football

zulater
01-06-2010, 09:37 AM
The pro Arians argument reminds me a lot of the pro Kordell argument several years back. Sure you won games with them, and yes there's many worse in the league. But the bottom line with both of them was there were too many holes in their game, and those shortcomings proved to be costly at inopportune times. Neither is elite or even close to it. You can do better for yourself and it's inexcusable not to try to upgrade.

revefsreleets
01-06-2010, 09:45 AM
Cook knows nothing! Wexell's word counts, Cook's does not. So sayeth the braintrust!

Bus36RollsUrlacher
01-06-2010, 09:46 AM
A lot of people do want BA out as the OC. You can talk about the sacks, the lack of creativity, the imbalance in the pass-run ratio, and the list goes on and on. There are some little pieces to the offensive picture that need to be looked at as well, especially going into next year. These are just some of my thoughts, but feel free to add to, dissect, or whatever. People want him gone, but who is the answer? Who is out there that can keep the offense going at a high level and it does not regress? I'm not sure if letting him go is the right or wrong answer, but if you (the Arians ousters) get what you want and the team is worse, what then? Who do you go after next - Tomlin?

1. If he (BA) stays - which I think he will, it is Tomlin's time to reel him in and get involved in the game plan. He says he likes to let his coaches coach, but I'm hoping that he has been observing and taking note of things he needs to address. I agree with letting coaches coach, but the inmates can't run the asylum.
2. Do you really want to lose what little bit of consistency that you have with the offensive personnel right now? Losing both your OC and QB coach could be a bit hit for Ben. I really think that Anderson was huge in Ben's development as a QB and he's going to be a big enogh loss. Let's not forget the other battle that Ben has coming up this offseason. We hope it comes out in his favor, but we'll see how it all goes.
3. The 09 season helped everyone remove the rose colored glasses. This team had a lot of these same problems last year. A lot of the same o-line problems, red zone issues, etc. Winning is a cure-all and they went through this year with blinders on at times. They did not mess too much with what won them a Super Bowl last year and it cost them.
4. Get your offensive identity back and play Steeler football - does it have to be 3 yards and a cloud of dust every time? No, but use your talent at running back. Get a true, blocking fullback. Stop putting band aids on the running game. TE's are not the answer. In the last three games, some big yardage came off of playaction. A good, established running game gives you so many options. It was very trademark when we had this to see an opposing defense struggling late in the game because they had been physically beaten throughout the game.
5. Be smarter on situational downs. 5 wide on 3rd and short? Closing out the game by going 3 and out passing? You don't have to be an offensive guru, just be a smart OC. Controlling the tempo and the clock are key - again Tomlin should be in his ear on these types of things.

Tomlin and the FO have some tough decisions to make, but that is why they do what they do, and we get to sit and dissect it all, right?

revefsreleets
01-06-2010, 09:46 AM
24 hours later, and is there ONE legitimate source confirming this rumor yet?

LO, at my fan club. Keep the hate mail rolling in...I LOVE it!

Fire Haley
01-06-2010, 09:53 AM
What the hell are you beating YOUR chest for?

I was the first one to call the "firing" bullshit.

see post #3

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 09:57 AM
if he stays then that will make me think tomlin has no balls to fire someone when they dont do their job.

Preacher
01-06-2010, 10:06 AM
TEN (0-1) 0 7 0 3 0 10 - 1 TD
PIT (1-0) 0 7 0 3 3 13


PIT (1-1) 7 0 7 0 14 - 2 TD
CHI (1-1) 0 7 0 10 17


PIT (6-5) 0 7 3 7 0 17 - 2 TD
BAL (6-5) 7 7 0 3 3 20

BAL (8-7) 3 7 10 0 20 - 2 TD
PIT (8-7) 6 14 0 3 23

CIN (7-2) 6 0 6 6 18 - 0 TD
PIT (6-3) 3 6 0 3 12

PIT (6-7) 0 3 3 0 6 - 0 TD
CLE (2-11) 3 10 0 0 13


That's six games where they scored a total of 7 TDs, 12 FGs. That's not exactly an offensive explosion. You might note two of the games they scored 0, that's zero TDs. And, you might also notice absent from the list, the '85 Bears, or the '86 Giants, or the '99 Ravens. Also note, that the Titans, after the Steelers struggled to score 17 in extra innings against them, went on to surrender 30 or more points in 4 of their next 5 games, including 59 points to the Pats. The 8 TDs the Pats scored in that game, were more than the Steelers scored in the 6 games listed above. The Steelers scored a total [B]82/B] pts. in the 6 games above(or 23 more than the Pats in that one game, against a team the Steelers labored to score 13 on in 5 quarter). :banging:


They had some games where they put up a lot of yards, sure. That'll happen in a wide open offense with lots of talent. If you don't convert those into TDs, they are essentially empty yards, and paper stats. And horrible red zone and 3rd down efficiency. That is part of the problem with BA's offense. It's pretty much feast or famine. In the games illustrated above.....mostly famine. Especially the last two in bold.



Rockon


And yet comparatively, it was one of the best scoring steelers offenses in the history of this team. :noidea:

littlemac
01-06-2010, 10:16 AM
4000 yd qb 2 1000 yd wr 1000 rb oc not the problem D gives away 5 4th Q leads u can see where the problem is. Everyone wants to blame and get rid of BA but no one says anything about DLb. Why BA easy target harder to point finger at HOF player and coach.

xfl2001fan
01-06-2010, 10:33 AM
if he stays then that will make me think tomlin has no balls to fire someone when they dont do their job.

What about Tomlin imposing his authority as the HC upon his OC? Is it not his job as the HC to ensure that all of his coordinators are doing the best job they can do?

Bus36RollsUrlacher
01-06-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm not going to talk about the defense and LeBeau, because that was not the intent of the thread. I think that if Arians stays, then Tomlin needs to voice how he wants the offense to be run and BA should fall between those parameters. Ultimately, the HC will have to say that this is what I want, and if you cannot do that, then we need to look elsewhere. There are two sides to the stats - sure they look good with 4000 yds passing, 2-1000 yd receivers and a 1000 yd RB, but what happens between the tackles? What has happened the past few years? Our $100M quarterback will become a stat as he will not last. I guess the big thing is finding out exactly what the FO and Tomlin want out of this offense.

revefsreleets
01-06-2010, 10:48 AM
What the hell are you beating YOUR chest for?

I was the first one to call the "firing" bullshit.

see post #3

My haters need ammo. Since I'm being reasonable, and assessing Arians in much the same light that the FO is, I'm labeled an apologist (and worse by some, I'm sure) by the braintrust.

plenewken
01-06-2010, 10:55 AM
4000 yd qb 2 1000 yd wr 1000 rb oc not the problem

With numbers like these, the Steelers should have done much better than putting 23pts on the board per game, certainly much more than scoring 6 friggin' pts against Cleveland, certainly much more than no TD against Cincinnati at home, certainly more than 13pts against Tennessee, certainly more than 14pts against Chicago, and also much better than losing 2 games in OT after winning the toss.

I'll take less good numbers and more pts on the board anyday.

While you're at it, count the numbers of stupid sacks, the % of 3rd down conversion, and the number of missed red zone opportunities and this will give you a more accurate picture of our offensive productivity this year.

I'm not ignoring the fact that our Defense failed to protect leads late in the game, but 3 or 4pts are not a sufficient cushion against most NFL teams. Our opponents' offenses are also paid to put points on the board.

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Yea, but saying something like "best scoring in team history" isn't exactly saying much at all given the fact that this isn't a high scoring ball club in the first place.

Just look at the "7 TDs and 12 FGs". THAT'S good to you...? Not saying you think it is, but you seem to be excusing that god awful offensive scoring because "it's one of the best scoring offenses in Steelers history". Where's the logic in that?

Some of you kill me spewing out these bullshit records and stats that don't mean SHIT in the long run. Bottom line is, he didn't do ENOUGH to keep his job. Of course the defense helped him lose it, but stop acting like he did some wonderful thing with this offense that some other OC couldn't do...

Fire Haley
01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
My haters need ammo.

I think you should start an "Official" thread that Ben is retiring.

Watch the lemmings jump off the cliff.

littlemac
01-06-2010, 11:04 AM
In the end MT will decide if BA stays. BA stays MT likes the job he's doing if not BA is gone. Who should we get then

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 11:05 AM
My haters need ammo. Since I'm being reasonable, and assessing Arians in much the same light that the FO is, I'm labeled an apologist (and worse by some, I'm sure) by the braintrust.

You can call BS all you want. But demanding that the thread be closed immediately is
ignorant at best. :coffee:

Steelers>NFL
01-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Yea, but saying something like "best scoring in team history" isn't exactly saying much at all given the fact that this isn't a high scoring ball club in the first place.

Just look at the "7 TDs and 12 FGs". THAT'S good to you...? Not saying you think it is, but you seem to be excusing that god awful offensive scoring because "it's one of the best scoring offenses in Steelers history". Where's the logic in that?

Some of you kill me spewing out these bullshit records and stats that don't mean SHIT in the long run. Bottom line is, he didn't do ENOUGH to keep his job. Of course the defense helped him lose it, but stop acting like he did some wonderful thing with this offense that some other OC couldn't do...
Good post! :applaudit:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Tony Tony Tony.

Ok. I guess English lessons are needed here, or maybe lessons in reading in context.



(I think the over/under is 25 words before "Arians" or "offense" (in relation to our offense) is uttered.now youre just being a donkeys behind. this IS a thread about arians and his potential firing so of course offense is going to be discussed.

but at least you are a step closer now to the discussion. We are talking schemes. Now, if we can just discuss why Lebeau's scheme has been thrown on and scored on repeatedly in the fourth quarter this year and part of last.

I grant you Troy P. was out. I never said anything otherwise. But he isn't the elixir fix all, because it was happening while he was playing as well, just not as much.

So Tony, why is it, that our defense, even when Troy IS playing, has been driven on and scored on?

actually we are getting much deeper into the diversion...

"bu..bu..bu..lebeau" :applaudit:

Wow--

The Arians haters would have you think we didn't score any points this year.


They would also be shocked to find out that Arian's offenses are responsible for 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history. (2007 and 2009).

"arians haters"? talk about strawman. invoking hate to compare being unsatisfied with a failed offensive philosophy?

And yet comparatively, it was one of the best scoring steelers offenses in the history of this team. :noidea:

now this is one of the worst cases of twisting, cherry picking, and manipulating stats to say whatever you want and there has BEEN alot of this going on lately as opposed to an honest, deeper, and more logical look into things.

my favorite of which is "the defense caused us 5 losses and almost 3 more". not only here but the media is parading this statement around as well.

lets go all the way with it and just say the defense is to blame for all 7 losses (after all they did give up more points than we scored).

what about the other 9 games the defense won? :noidea:

now on to your latest round of "stats" and argument-

too many fallacies and way to vague, which leads me to believe you are hiding a truth to be found within the numbers.

for the sake of a legitimate debatei think you need to be more accountable and show your numbers.

1) are your numbers total offensive point in a single season or PPG average?

if it is the former we must throw out all yars w/o a 16 game season and we should also throw out all seasons during the dead ball era. steelerfans know that in 1978 the league changed the rules to increase scoring.

2) does arians get credit for scoring going up in the entire league across the board in the past 5-10 years. it is inflation, he is a recipient of it. does he also get credit for the steelers having 2 of the top 11 salary caps in their history? this is like saying people are wealthier now than they have ever been because minimum wage is $7.50/hour as opposed to $1.15 (or whatever) in the 50's

3) why dont you show the top 11steeler scoring offenses for comparative analysis. being that you dont i must assume that with the greatest yardage for a qb (09) and greatest td total (07), arians was still only capable of mustering the 10th and 11th hishest scoring offense of all time. you must not want us to see that a kordell and mularkey offens was more productive.

4) this isnt about the steelers vs. the steelers. this is about the steelers vs the other 32 teams in the league. those are the people we need to beat. thats like saying the browns had one of their best defenses in years. big deal. can they beat other teams on a consistant basis?

5) why dont you compare arians to all other offenses in history and see how he stacks up? heres the top 46 list with the ppg range from 38 at the top to 30 ppg at #46.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/7_1789_Greatest_scoring_offenses,_all_of_NFL_histo ry.html

what did arians offense average this year? 23 ppg. holy cow! i bet his offense doesnt even crack the top 200!

bunk argument. im not buying it.

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 11:26 AM
My haters need ammo. Since I'm being reasonable, and assessing Arians in much the same light that the FO is, I'm labeled an apologist (and worse by some, I'm sure) by the braintrust.

There are A LOT of people who are calling for Arians firing that are also assessing him reasonably. I see logical arguments on each side.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Yea, but saying something like "best scoring in team history" isn't exactly saying much at all given the fact that this isn't a high scoring ball club in the first place.

Just look at the "7 TDs and 12 FGs". THAT'S good to you...? Not saying you think it is, but you seem to be excusing that god awful offensive scoring because "it's one of the best scoring offenses in Steelers history". Where's the logic in that?

Some of you kill me spewing out these bullshit records and stats that don't mean SHIT in the long run. Bottom line is, he didn't do ENOUGH to keep his job. Of course the defense helped him lose it, but stop acting like he did some wonderful thing with this offense that some other OC couldn't do...thanks. great post. you beat me to it. :drink:

vague and muddied stats at best.

steelax04
01-06-2010, 11:36 AM
I feel that Arians had too much "fun" calling plays and that's why we saw the off-the-wall plays in questionable situations. When crunch time came (Red Zone), a scheme or philosophy to the offense just didn't seem to be there.

I do, however, think Arians showed a lot of potential with the numbers the offense put up this year. And while three years is a long time to develop potential, I think we see him back for one more year and with Tomlin having more influence into the gameplan, schemes, and offensive philosophy. Maybe with someone forcing him to focus on an offensive identity, we'll get more consistency, especially inside the 20.

revefsreleets
01-06-2010, 11:51 AM
You can call BS all you want. But demanding that the thread be closed immediately is
ignorant at best. :coffee:

I wasn't serious....but understanding and/or recognizing sarcasm requires some critical thinking, and..............well.........

If we closed every stupid or misguided thread, there'd be a lot less threads going around this joint....

ljk2442
01-06-2010, 11:52 AM
How can someone possibly defend Arians... OUR OFFENSE was not very good last year, and this year we put up huge stats and didnt score nearly a proportionate amount of points with the yards we totalled... Arians suspect play calling and his knack for not adapted to the game is the reason he MUST go... He tries making Big Ben Peyton Manning, Big Ben is Big Ben... don't alter it! hes a gunslinger, not this pocket, 5 wide on 3rd and 1 QB

T.Richardson
01-06-2010, 12:02 PM
With numbers like these, the Steelers should have done much better than putting 23pts on the board per game, certainly much more than scoring 6 friggin' pts against Cleveland, certainly much more than no TD against Cincinnati at home, certainly more than 13pts against Tennessee, certainly more than 14pts against Chicago, and also much better than losing 2 games in OT after winning the toss.

I'll take less good numbers and more pts on the board anyday.

While you're at it, count the numbers of stupid sacks, the % of 3rd down conversion, and the number of missed red zone opportunities and this will give you a more accurate picture of our offensive productivity this year.

I'm not ignoring the fact that our Defense failed to protect leads late in the game, but 3 or 4pts are not a sufficient cushion against most NFL teams. Our opponents' offenses are also paid to put points on the board.

Last year, there was no problem having a 3 or 4 point lead... but winning does cure everything...

13 points against the Titans, the Steelers won, your pulling that one out of your ass. Cutler who is an average QB had one of his best games against this defense.. 2 OT games? yea.. Ben got injured in the loss to KC, and Dixons first start vs Baltimore. Is it Arians fault that Sweed dropped a TD pass against Cincy? or that Holmes dropped a TD pass against Chicago?

Lets forget the Almight Raiders, the same offense lead by a journeyman QB, and some no name WR , that scored 21 points in the freaking 4th quarter, right after the Offense gave them the lead..TWICE! or Matt Cassel who threw for 248 yds 2 TDs, 0 ints, and a 100 QB rating, easily one of his best games this year, or the 60 yard reception by Chambers, or or the 22 points scored in the 4th quarter against the Packers...after the offense gave them a 10 point lead...

You know what the defenses job is? to protect the 3 or 4 point leads the Offense gives them..

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:05 PM
heres the difference between cook and wexell-

Cook
I'm hoping the radio report is wrong...
I can't think of one good reason why the Rooneys and/or Tomlin would make that move with Arians. They are too smart to try to placate the frustrated masses by giving them his head. Arians doesn't deserve that. Letting him go would be a huge mistake. It wouldn't rectify what really ails the Steelers. It only would add to their troubles. :crying01:


Wexell
No, Steelers haven't confirmed. My source in F.O. says nothing's happened (yet). A player has confirmed the firing tho.
A 3rd source has told me Arians has not been fired. That's 2 from the front office who say no, "not yet," and one player says yes.

so cook is reporting hope and cant think of 1 good reason the team would make this move.

how bout 42 pass/ 18 rush/ 6 pts vs the browns? :tap:

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 12:11 PM
I wasn't serious....but understanding and/or recognizing sarcasm requires some critical thinking, and..............well.........

If we closed every stupid or misguided thread, there'd be a lot less threads going around this joint....


Nice try but you didn't say or do anything to indicate sarcasm.


Bolded: According to the great and wise Revs, right? Who do you think you are anyways? Seriously man, you need to take yourself off of the pedestal you have put yourself on. Let me guess, the type in bold was sarcasm too.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 12:12 PM
This RUMOR is straight from PFT, I mean it was literally cribbed word for word....and even PFT was backpeddling saying that this one guy from one station in Pittsburgh was the ONLY guy reporting this. NOT ESPN, ONE GUY who works at ESPN radio in Pittsburgh.

This rumor is a complete joke. PFT is a joke. This thread should be closed immediately.


Quoted for relevance that Revs is full of shit and is trying to backpedal from his idiotic superiority complex.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:29 PM
You know what the defenses job is? to protect the 3 or 4 point leads the Offense gives them..you know what the offenses job is? score td's and protect the ball.

the special teams job is to kick fg's, kick off, and cover and return kicks, etc.

the steelers offense has failed to score more than 2 td's in 8 of 16 games (50% failure rate).

the steelers defense has prevented the oppositions offense from scoring more than 2 td's in 12 of 16 games (75% success rate).

supa_fly_steeler
01-06-2010, 12:36 PM
the reason big ben got such much yardage is because he threw about 40 times a game, if the steelers ran the football in the 4th quarter and took time of the clock, then the defense has less a job to do.

stb_steeler
01-06-2010, 12:41 PM
I think the biggest thing is, how long and how many times do you want your QB sacked?. It cant continue this way if we want Ben to remain our franchise QB.

Fire Haley
01-06-2010, 12:42 PM
Revs is an ass-toot - I taught him everything he knows.

plenewken
01-06-2010, 12:43 PM
Last year, there was no problem having a 3 or 4 point lead... but winning does cure everything...

13 points against the Titans, the Steelers won, your pulling that one out of your ass. Cutler who is an average QB had one of his best games against this defense.. 2 OT games? yea.. Ben got injured in the loss to KC, and Dixons first start vs Baltimore. Is it Arians fault that Sweed dropped a TD pass against Cincy? or that Holmes dropped a TD pass against Chicago?

Lets forget the Almight Raiders, the same offense lead by a journeyman QB, and some no name WR , that scored 21 points in the freaking 4th quarter, right after the Offense gave them the lead..TWICE! or Matt Cassel who threw for 248 yds 2 TDs, 0 ints, and a 100 QB rating, easily one of his best games this year, or the 60 yard reception by Chambers, or or the 22 points scored in the 4th quarter against the Packers...after the offense gave them a 10 point lead...

You know what the defenses job is? to protect the 3 or 4 point leads the Offense gives them..

Beating TN 13-10 at home with 1TD and 2 FGs ain't the kind of example I would use to try to make a point for our offense. By the way, don't forget than TN missed 2 FGs.
Don't forget either that they followed this narrow loss with 5 more where they were literally crushed. Wanna know how many points the 5 following opponents scored against them? 34, 24, 37, 31 and 59.

Obviously, you're the kind of guy who thinks that winning the toss twice in overtime and twice losing the game is a defensive problem.

By the way, against Baltimore, we not only won the toss but we also got the ball back after our defense stopped them. That's 2 overtime possessions that we couldn't score with.

There's a big difference between a 1 possession lead and a 2 possession lead. How many times did the offense secure a 2 possession lead (>7 pts) that the defense blew to lose the game. I said Defense, not Special Teams.

stb_steeler
01-06-2010, 12:48 PM
GONE.......was on sports radio lastnight

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 12:54 PM
I dont think he gets canned. Starting to sound like he leaked the story himself to 1250 radio, just to screw with the local media.

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 12:58 PM
I just read that Arians himself leaked the word he'll be fired...

BlastFurnace
01-06-2010, 01:01 PM
This is getting pretty crazy or funny depending how you look at it:

ESPN says Arians will be fired. Bouchette said he thinks he will stay. Steelers say nothing.

Another site is saying that Arians is the one who leaked the information to ESPN.

Another site is now reporting that Zerlein has been fired.

This is getting interesting.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 01:05 PM
I just read that Arians himself leaked the word he'll be fired...

If that's what he wants then why not just quit.

T.Richardson
01-06-2010, 01:05 PM
Hes staying.

steelax04
01-06-2010, 01:07 PM
GONE.......was on sports radio lastnight

Where's all the confirming reports then?

Fire Haley
01-06-2010, 01:10 PM
This is getting pretty crazy or funny depending how you look at it:

ESPN says Arians will be fired. Bouchette said he thinks he will stay. Steelers say nothing.

Another site is saying that Arians is the one who leaked the information to ESPN.

Another site is now reporting that Zerlein has been fired.

This is getting interesting.



By "another site" you mean Florio is spewing more crap


1. Some radio guy named Laird makes up a report that Arians will be fired - hoping to be right.

2. Some internet hack speculates that Arians himself started the rumor.

3. NBC Sports picks up these rumors and then repeats them

4. Other media outlets pick up the rumors and report them as truths.


The gullible hometown guppies swallow it all hook line and sinker

WH
01-06-2010, 01:12 PM
By those quotes, it seems like Cook is a columnist and Wexell is a reporter

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 01:14 PM
Uh, nobody is saying they "believe" it.

But it IS interesting part of this ever evolving story. True or not...

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 01:14 PM
By "another site" you mean Florio is spewing more crap


1. Some radio guy named Laird makes up a report that Arians will be fired - hoping to be right.

2. Some internet hack speculates that Arians himself started the rumor.

3. NBC Sports picks up these rumors and then repeats them

4. Other media outlets pick up the rumors and report them as truths.


The gullible hometown guppies swallow it all hook line and sinker



Guppies ? They look more like piranhas :rofl:

J/K

DoctorCAD
01-06-2010, 01:16 PM
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Pass 6 yards
Punt

Repeat


The BA game plan.

steelax04
01-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Pass 6 yards
Punt

Repeat


The BA game plan.

But I thought running the ball was what kept the defense off the field and giving up another 4th quarter lead?? :chuckle:

:couch:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 01:27 PM
I think you should start an "Official" thread that Ben is retiring. i just cant wait until the shoe finally drops so we can lock this thread down and start the real "bruce arians officially fired!" thread.

oh, that and the reaction when larry zeirlein is promoted to OC.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 01:32 PM
i just cant wait until the shoe finally drops so we can lock this thread down and start the real "bruce arians officially fired!" thread.

oh, that and the reaction when larry zeirlein is promoted to OC.



:help: :jawdrop: :horror:

7SteelGal43
01-06-2010, 01:36 PM
We could combine them all into two threads. One titled "YAY ARIANS", the other titled "ARIANS SUCKS"




I think most of us can figure out which one we want to post on just from the title. :thumbsup:

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 01:37 PM
:help: :jawdrop: :horror:

Don't worry 43, looks like coach Z got the axe before Brucey.

Someone just posted this link in another thread :

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/01/06/steelers-fire-o-line-coach-zierlein/

SteelC7
01-06-2010, 01:42 PM
the defense may have let us down the most, but if the offense could score TDs instead of FGs or fumbling/INTs then the defense could play a better bend but dont break style, see if we score 1 more TD in those 7 games we lost, ill bet we wouldnt have lost more than 2 or 3 games this year. the defense and STs are to blame, but the offense goes stagnant way too often, we dont use our talented tailback enough, and we pass in obvious situations, like 6 or 7 passes in a row wen they didnt need to bruce arians has to go, hes never been a successful coordinator in his career

wootawnee
01-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Get Charlie Batch to do it...........

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Not that it's a done deal, but is Randy Fichtner a consideration for OC in anyone's eyes? What about James Daniel? What do we know about these guys, other than that their units were solid this year?

Odd that anyone would have gotten the axe before Ligashesky, or Horton. I'd like to repeat my contention that Arians would not be a bad OC if he were stripped of play-calling duties. That's just my two cents, that I've put in now 73 times, which comes out to $1.46. Where's my change?

xbroughneck
01-06-2010, 02:12 PM
The past three seasons.

Steelers best offensive production is when...

1) Ben goes no huddle/2 minute drill
2) When the Steelers use playaction
3) When they are balanced (which helps playaction)

The past 3 years the Steelers have been BEST when they took Arians out of the equation and Ben improvised.

Have any other QB not named Manning, Brees or Brady and the sack numbers would have been higher, or 3rd down conversion rates would have been less.

The Steelers really haven't needed Arians to perform at their best (no huddle), so no, I'm not worried that they'll faulter if he's gone. Hell, all else fails and they can do what they do with him here. Go no huddle and take the decision making away from the offensive coordinator.

xbroughneck
01-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Well, the rumour has pissed me off because it got my hopes up.


If it doesn't hold water, then in addition to the Steelers not making the playoffs this year I'll have to deal with the disappointment of my least favorite Steeler still being in the organization.

If it came down to only being able to lose one person out of the Steelers organization I'd pick Arians.

He's not as bad as Ty Carter
He's not as bad as the OLine coach
He's not as bad as William Gay (who I think is below average...not HANK POTEAT bad)

I just hate Arians offensive scheme. Call me old school.

BlastFurnace
01-06-2010, 02:35 PM
Well...Bruce Arians is staying as Offensive Coordinator

www.postgazette.com/steelers

Steelers: Zierlein out, Arians stays
Wednesday, January 06, 2010
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Steelers have fired offensive line coach Larry Zierlein and told Bruce Arians he will be retained as the team's offensive coordinator, the Post-Gazette has learned.

Arians, who has a year remaining on his contract, had a long meeting today with Coach Mike Tomlin and was told he will return in that position in 2010.

Under Arians, the Steelers offense produced a 4,000-yard quarterback, two 1,000-yard receivers and a 1,000-yard running back in 2009 for the first time in franchise history.

Even though the running game improved this season from their Super Bowl season in 2008, averaging 112.1 yards per game, Zierlein was dismissed after Roethlisberger was sacked a personal-high 50 times this season.



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10006/1026257-100.stm#ixzz0brmwz2GP

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 02:38 PM
so does this mean i can send him the bill for all the stuff i break in my house next season ???lol

vrabinec
01-06-2010, 02:41 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/1026257-66.stm

Sorry for the duplicate. Feel free to nuke this.

By the way, If the FO actually wanted Arians out and Tomlin fought for him, as has been reported, then I wonder if the FO will skip extending Tomlin's contract in the spring. I.E. Did Tomlin hitch his wagon to Arians, and they sink or swim together?

plenewken
01-06-2010, 02:42 PM
Sh*t!
Arians is like herpes, it's gonna take a looooong and painful process to get rid of him.
:rofl:

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
Guess Wexell needs to find new "sources."

tunes4life
01-06-2010, 02:49 PM
This was foretold - At the the very least, I had something in the pit of my stomach that said it would happen. :uhh:

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 02:50 PM
Great, just ****in great. Whatever, though. He better fix that damn Red Zone scoring and get Rashard more involved.

Something tells me that won't happen, though...

memphissteelergirl
01-06-2010, 02:53 PM
Sh*t!
Arians is like herpes, it's gonna take a looooong and painful process to get rid of him.
:rofl:


Well....there's a pleasant thought. :chuckle:


If we're stuck with Arians for another season, could we maybe get a consolation prize with news that the special teams coach got "da boot?"

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 02:54 PM
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Run into the middle of the line for 1 yard
Pass 6 yards
Punt

Repeat


The BA game plan.

Not the games I've been watching. It's been more like:

1st-and-ten - Pass deep right intended for Mike Wallace, incomplete.
2nd-and-ten - Santonio Holmes end around double-reverse, six yards.
3rd-and-four - Timeout, Pittsburgh... redux - Ben Roethlisberger sacked for an eight yard loss.
Punt.
Repeat.

It's a good thing that we practiced that 1st down bomb down the right sideline the whole season long, because it was clearly starting to bear fruit those last three games. :wink02:

Dino 6 Rings
01-06-2010, 02:57 PM
just Stop Being GREEDY with the EFFING PASS please

that's all I freaking ask...

Edman
01-06-2010, 03:00 PM
Good. More watching the Offense struggle against subpar defenses and get blown out by above average ones.

More empty Shotgun on 3rd and 2.
More abandoning what works.
More red zone failures.
More neglect of playaction and the no-huddle.
More mediocrity and underachievement on offense.
More inability to adjust.

If it weren't for an all-world defense and Ben's Heroics in 2008, we'd still be looking for #6. But hey, we have a 4,000 yard passer! And Ben likes him!

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 03:07 PM
That's another thing, the no-huddle. Why the hell did he just stop using it? Ben is nothing but MONEY when he calls his own plays (hmm...).

We can have all the stats and records in the world, but lack of common sense sure as hell won't allow you to win in this league...

plenewken
01-06-2010, 03:08 PM
I must say that if the new OL coach manages to improve Ben's protection in the pocket we'll have a higher opportunity of scoring more than 6pts against Cleveland.

3-3 in our Division next year. YeeHaww!

:rofl:

Atranox
01-06-2010, 03:09 PM
just Stop Being GREEDY with the EFFING PASS please

that's all I freaking ask...

But...but...the other team won't be prepared to stop 55 passes in sub-zero temperatures with 40mph winds! 3rd and 1? Surely they'll be expecting a run!

The Burce Arians line of thought for a 3rd & goal play:

1. Running it would be the best play
2. Okay, they'll probably expect a run though
3. We should pass it then
4. Wait, they might expect that we'll pass to try to trick them
5. We ought to do a play-action then to confuse them
6. No, wait. They'll anticipate a play-action to try to trick them!
7. Aha! Theyll know that we know that they know that we want to run, so they'll know to expect a pass. Then they probably know that if we know that they know that we want to run, then we also know that they know that we know that we want to then pass. If they know that we know this, then we probably need a really tricky play to out-smart them!
8. We'll do a quadruple flea-flicker reverse pass from Wallace to Max Starks.

...in all honesty, I don't mind Arians. He just need to be more consistant

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 03:12 PM
That's another thing, the no-huddle. Why the hell did he just stop using it? Ben is nothing but MONEY when he calls his own plays (hmm...).

We can have all the stats and records in the world, but lack of common sense sure as hell won't allow you to win in this league...

You can refer to any of several dozen posts from this year for the answer to that:

If something is working stop immediately, because obviously the other teams have figured it out;
If something is not working, keep trying until it does.

GBMelBlount
01-06-2010, 03:13 PM
I liked Arians.

I can site several examples where his sheer brilliance exceeded the results we would have had calling purely arbitrary plays....

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I must say that if the new OL coach manages to improve Ben's protection in the pocket we'll have a higher opportunity of scoring more than 6pts against Cleveland.

3-3 in our Division next year. YeeHaww!

:rofl:
well that would be an improvement over this season in the division..lol

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Well, the rumour has pissed me off because it got my hopes up.


If it doesn't hold water, then in addition to the Steelers not making the playoffs this year I'll have to deal with the disappointment of my least favorite Steeler still being in the organization.

If it came down to only being able to lose one person out of the Steelers organization I'd pick Arians.

He's not as bad as Ty Carter
He's not as bad as the OLine coach
He's not as bad as William Gay (who I think is below average...not HANK POTEAT bad)

I just hate Arians offensive scheme. Call me old school.

I couldn't agree more. This makes this disaster of a season and missing the playoffs this year 10 times worse!


Rockon

Glace
01-06-2010, 03:21 PM
Well...Coach Z has been on my shit list since he took over for Grimm. I'm glad to see he's finally been held accountable for the problems our line has had the last couple seasons.

plenewken
01-06-2010, 03:24 PM
I couldn't agree more. This makes this disaster of a season and missing the playoffs this year 10 times worse!
Rockon

What bothers me most is that each time the offense has the ball, I'm happy when Ben's not sacked or picked. Arians made me lower my expectations dramatically.
I use to watch the Steelers for both the excitement of the W and the pleasure of seeing them play well and smart.
The latter starts to turn into a pipe dream, unfortunately.

St33lersguy
01-06-2010, 03:26 PM
:banging::banging::banging::banging::banging:
I guess our owners don'doesn't care one bit about decent playcalling, adjusting, doing what works, and a hint of common sense from an offensive coordinator. If only the rooneys had the stomach to actually fire coordinators then maybe we could enjoy the luxury of an OC who does all of the above for the 1st time since 2006. Don't these guys realize that Airhead Arians is such a stupid, emptyheaded, unimaginative, worthless, clueless, thick imbecile. Those who followed the 2008 steelers knows that the steelers won because of Big Ben and big defense and that their biggest obstacle was that completely dense numskull who called himself an offensive coordinator.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 03:31 PM
:banging::banging::banging::banging::banging:
I guess our owners don't care one bit about a bunch of spoiled, whiny-assed, crybaby fans' pissing and moaning.


Fixed. And no, they don't.

xbroughneck
01-06-2010, 03:33 PM
I liked Arians.

I can site several examples where his sheer brilliance exceeded the results we would have had calling purely arbitrary plays....

I don't need several. Just give me 3.

Make sure they all took place in the redzone this year and led to touchdowns, not field goals. K?:coffee:

Fricken pissed.

I was sad when we didn't make the playoffs, but I understood why.
This just makes me mad.

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Give me a break. I don't get the Arians support. In my opinion this year WAS his second chance after our 22nd in the league offense last season. Now he's on his THIRD shot at getting it right. Whatever, we've won in spite of him once alreadly we can do it again.....

Shoes
01-06-2010, 03:41 PM
:banging::banging::banging::banging::banging:
I guess our owners don'doesn't care one bit about decent playcalling, adjusting, doing what works, and a hint of common sense from an offensive coordinator. If only the rooneys had the stomach to actually fire coordinators then maybe we could enjoy the luxury of an OC who does all of the above for the 1st time since 2006. Don't these guys realize that Airhead Arians is such a stupid, emptyheaded, unimaginative, worthless, clueless, thick imbecile. Those who followed the 2008 steelers knows that the steelers won because of Big Ben and big defense and that their biggest obstacle was that completely dense numskull who called himself an offensive coordinator.

You want owners like A. Davis or J. Jones? The Rooney's know the business of football better than most of us on this forum :chuckle: If the FO has different ideas about keeping Arians than Mike T, I'm sure they made clear their view on the subject. My guess is they left the decision up to Mike T, as a good owner should. I also suppose it will get Mike T. in high gear and hopefully have a big influence on the O play calling.....

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 03:41 PM
Well it's official... Mike Tomlin has no balls and his word means nothing.

tyler289
01-06-2010, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't have been opposed to Arians being canned, but whatever. He's not terrible, but he could use some work.

I just hope our ST coach is fired. How he can justify having a job is beyond me...

wootawnee
01-06-2010, 03:41 PM
I think it's time ben just calls all the plays like Brad did........It's time.......He knows all the playmakers well enough and they all know the plays.........Keep Bruce on but take that silly Mike Holmgren sheet out of his hands and let him coach em up during the week........When other defenses are surprised by what we run, is when Ben runs the ship.......Seems like they get into Arians head too easy.......

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 03:41 PM
Fixed. And no, they don't.

Bottom line is these "whiny fans" have made some pretty valid points whether you like it or not. They are littered throughout this thread, and its the wrong move to keep Arians. How many more seasons of missed playoffs, Clevland games, inept redzone offense, etc, etc, do we have to see before thats realized.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 03:43 PM
Well it's official... Mike Tomlin has no balls and his word means nothing.


Unfortunately, that's the way it's starting to look. :mad:


Rockon

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 03:43 PM
Bottom line is these "whiny fans" have made some pretty valid points whether you like it or not. They are littered throughout this thread, and its the wrong move to keep Arians. How many more seasons of missed playoffs, Clevland games, inept redzone offense, etc, etc, do we have to see before thats realized.

We've missed the postseason one time in his tenure. We wound up about 5 plays from being around 13-3 this year as opposed to 9-7. Shit happens. Accuse me of being a Kool-Aid drinking lemming, but I trust the Rooneys' call more than I do yours, sorry. And I don't think the Rooneys would have hesitated for a second to pull rank on Tomlin and pull the plug on Arians if they felt it was absolutely warranted.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 03:44 PM
No real surprise, but I was hopeful we would go another way. No big deal....just gettin ready to buckle up for another year of Carey Davis at FB, no running game in December, the departure of Willie Parker, Willie Colon and probably another 9-7 season.

I lived thru us giving Kordell a big money contract, I can live thru another season of empty backfield sets on 3rd and short.

WH
01-06-2010, 03:45 PM
If the guy learns how to adjust DURING the game....I'm fine with him staying. If he can't do that, i'll just bitch some more next year.


oh, get a fullback for the love of god, and don't be so snobby about it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Well it's official... Mike Tomlin has no balls and his word means nothing.

Relax, he's just getting the back of his OC and planning to "unleash hell in December"................2010.

T.Richardson
01-06-2010, 03:47 PM
Bottom line is these "whiny fans" have made some pretty valid points whether you like it or not. They are littered throughout this thread, and its the wrong move to keep Arians. How many more seasons of missed playoffs, Clevland games, inept redzone offense, etc, etc, do we have to see before thats realized.

:blah:

GBMelBlount
01-06-2010, 03:48 PM
I don't need several (examples of Arians' brilliant play calling). Just give me 3.

Make sure they all took place in the redzone this year and led to touchdowns, not field goals. K?:coffee:

Fricken pissed.

I was sad when we didn't make the playoffs, but I understood why.
This just makes me mad.

I'll have to get back to you on that. :chuckle:

tyler289
01-06-2010, 03:48 PM
And to be fair, while Mendenhall came on strong, I can understand Arians' love of the passing game with this team. We are absolutely LOADED at QB, WR, and TE. Playmakers all over the place.

Hopefully Tomlin and Colbert step in, though, and get this team some good linemen, a true FB, and use BOTH the big-time passing game and the running game. We have a chance to be really dynamic on offense.

WH
01-06-2010, 03:50 PM
And to be fair, while Mendenhall came on strong, I can understand Arians' love of the passing game with this team. We are absolutely LOADED at QB, WR, and TE. Playmakers all over the place.

Hopefully Tomlin and Colbert step in, though, and get this team some good linemen, a true FB, and use BOTH the big-time passing game and the running game. We have a chance to be really dynamic on offense.
Arians doesn't believe in fullbacks, I'm not joking. He was quoted to say it in the paper. Colbert has one hell of an offseason ahead of him.

Shoes
01-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Just think, we have a full off season ahead of us :chuckle:

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 03:56 PM
how many want to bet that when the rumors started about arians getting the boot, ben called tomlin and started throwing a fit to keep him?

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-06-2010, 03:58 PM
I like how everybody who is not completely supporting this decision is a "whinny fan". If we're that, then you all are "blind sheep" if you think this is the 100% right decision.

We'll see where we're at next year, because I doubt thing will change...

WH
01-06-2010, 03:58 PM
how many want to bet that when the rumors started about arians getting the boot, ben called tomlin and started throwing a fit to keep him?

I'll bet you 2000 dollars that Ben is too bust counting his money to care.

NJarhead
01-06-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't need several. Just give me 3.

Make sure they all took place in the redzone this year and led to touchdowns, not field goals. K?:coffee:

Fricken pissed.

I was sad when we didn't make the playoffs, but I understood why.
This just makes me mad.

I'm pretty sure the Randel El TD throw in SB XL and the toss back to Ben TD throw to Wilson in the Wild Card game of that same year against the Bungals, while both called by Whiz, were Arians' plays.

FacemeIke
01-06-2010, 04:00 PM
We've missed the postseason one time in his tenure. We wound up about 5 plays from being around 13-3 this year as opposed to 9-7. Shit happens. Accuse me of being a Kool-Aid drinking lemming, but I trust the Rooneys' call more than I do yours, sorry. And I don't think the Rooneys would have hesitated for a second to pull rank on Tomlin and pull the plug on Arians if they felt it was absolutely warranted.

The guy has been on the hot seat for the past two years for a reason. But the Rooneys have earned the right to make their own decisions without being criticized endlessly. I just get this bad feeling that we will be having this same discussion a year from now, and nothing in BA's work this past year has changed my mind about that.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 04:01 PM
I like how everybody who is not completely supporting this decision is a "whinny fan".

No, just people who go off on idiotic and childish tangents like this one:

I guess our owners don'doesn't care one bit about decent playcalling, adjusting, doing what works, and a hint of common sense from an offensive coordinator. If only the rooneys had the stomach to actually fire coordinators then maybe we could enjoy the luxury of an OC who does all of the above for the 1st time since 2006. Don't these guys realize that Airhead Arians is such a stupid, emptyheaded, unimaginative, worthless, clueless, thick imbecile. Those who followed the 2008 steelers knows that the steelers won because of Big Ben and big defense and that their biggest obstacle was that completely dense numskull who called himself an offensive coordinator.

stillers4me
01-06-2010, 04:02 PM
The guy has been on the hot seat for the past two years for a reason. But the Rooneys have earned the right to make their own decisions without being criticized endlessly. I just get this bad feeling that we will be having this same discussion a year from now, and nothing in BA's work this past year has changed my mind about that.

Arian's is on the last year of his contract. I'm betting we suddenly see lots of changes.

SteelCityMom
01-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Good god it's going to be a long offseason on here...

BlastFurnace
01-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Now...we can all put our focus on where Cowher will coach rumor mill since that seems to be another popular topic.

Regarding Arians....the bottom line though, is if the defense and special teams are not fixed next year, it wouldn't matter if we had a reincarnated Bill Walsh running our offense. The defense and ST are the reasons we are not in the playoffs this season...not the offense.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 04:03 PM
The guy has been on the hot seat for the past two years for a reason. But the Rooneys have earned the right to make their own decisions without being criticized endlessly. I just get this bad feeling that we will be having this same discussion a year from now, and nothing in BA's work this past year has changed my mind about that.

I've said countless times I don't care if Arians stays or goes. Do I think we could do better in the OC department? Hell yes! Do I also think we could do worse? Hell yes! I'm just keeping my fingers crossed at this point. :hope:

xbroughneck
01-06-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm pretty sure the Randel El TD throw in SB XL and the toss back to Ben TD throw to Wilson in the Wild Card game of that same year against the Bungals, while both called by Whiz, were Arians' plays.

OK..he designed good trick plays. Gotcha.

steelreserve
01-06-2010, 04:05 PM
Wait, a thread about Arians REALLY getting fired or not? Well, I feel obligated that we meet the minimum requirements:


OMG YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS & U DONHT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL

OMG YOU'RE A BUNCH OF WHINEY FANS, OMG YOUR JUST A STIPUD FAN WHY ARE YOU EVEN TALKING

OMG, WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID. I CANT BELIEVE YOUR SO STUPID


http://www.allaboutbipolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/sky-is-falling.jpg


There. I think we can call this thread a wrap now.

WH
01-06-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm pretty sure the Randel El TD throw in SB XL and the toss back to Ben TD throw to Wilson in the Wild Card game of that same year against the Bungals, while both called by Whiz, were Arians' plays.

Probably not, and if it wasn't Whiz's it'd been Mularkey's

SMR
01-06-2010, 04:15 PM
To be honest, I can't really blame this season's failure to make the playoffs solely on Arians and the Offense or just on the ST or Defense. I truly think the source of this year's letdown is the lack of motivation and ****iness which resulted in the three areas doing only a half job. This seemed to have the offense, defense, and ST rubbing off on it with each other and possibly expecting the other to carry them through. Unlike last year's SB run, we lost the fire and became complacent. You guys remember the ultra-soft and lazy training camp before the season?

:doh:

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 04:16 PM
No Arians "basher" here....nor a supporter either. I HOPE the FO has done the right decision. With all respect for a man of his age, I think BA has no room for improvement, I HOPE The Rooneys, Colbert and MT make him correct the mistakes he's been doing for 2 seasons ( redzone playcalling, situational footbal that is ) I HOPE the OL improves without Zierlin. Please Mr. Arians, stop the empty backfield 5 wide on 3rd. and 1 !!!!

The PG article says 2010 is the last year of BA's contract, if there's no improvement, maybe they will not extend him.

That being said, I'm not a "whinny" fan, I'm just giving MHO on the subject :wink:

Oh, and and I'm not giving the defense a free pass, they have a ton of work to do in the offseason, specially the secondary.

stillers4me
01-06-2010, 04:20 PM
I just hope Ben survives another year of BA.

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 04:22 PM
I just hope Ben survives another year of BA.
i hear you.. maybe they will get some Olinemen that know how to protect better..lol..

Shoes
01-06-2010, 04:23 PM
I just hope Ben survives another year of BA.

Doesn't matter, we have Dixon.....but he can't run because he might get hurt :chuckle:

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 04:24 PM
I just hope Ben survives another year of BA.

Maybe... just maybe... the new OL Coach helps to avoid the sacks :noidea:

MACH1
01-06-2010, 04:26 PM
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/heffrandotnet/death-to-smoochy.png

:sofunny:

KYsteelfan
01-06-2010, 04:30 PM
Maybe... just maybe... the new OL Coach helps to avoid the sacks :noidea:

I think that a majority of the sacks ben takes arent the fault of the oline. some of them are, but alot of them is where he is trying to hold on to the ball and make a play. you know, the stuff that makes big ben, big ben

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 04:37 PM
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/heffrandotnet/death-to-smoochy.png

:sofunny:

Man you come up with some good shit. :rofl:

NJarhead
01-06-2010, 04:41 PM
OK..he designed good trick plays. Gotcha.

He's also been a part of both our Super Bowls. Of the very few people MVP Hines Ward thanked after SB XL, Arians was one of them. Ben is also very comfy with him and the importance of that should go without saying.

Don't be a jackass.

NJarhead
01-06-2010, 04:46 PM
Probably not, and if it wasn't Whiz's it'd been Mularkey's

Mulark's only trick play was having the Bus throw to the TE. Plus he was gone by then.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Well, I am not a huge fan of Ariens, especially after the Cleveland debacle, but I stand behind my Steelers and will trust what the FO and our coaching staff decides. Let's just hope the Tomlin and the FO had a coming home to Jesus party with Ariens and he changes some of his tendencies. In my best Forrest Gump voice "That's all I have to say about that".

Psyychoward86
01-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Doesn't matter, we have Dixon.....but he can't run because he might get hurt :chuckle:

:screwy:

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 04:54 PM
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/heffrandotnet/death-to-smoochy.png

:sofunny:

:toofunny: :rofl:

SteelGhost
01-06-2010, 04:56 PM
I think that a majority of the sacks ben takes arent the fault of the oline. some of them are, but alot of them is where he is trying to hold on to the ball and make a play. you know, the stuff that makes big ben, big ben

I agree KY :thumbsup: I'm just having wishfull thinkings :chuckle:

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 05:01 PM
I think that a majority of the sacks ben takes arent the fault of the oline. some of them are, but alot of them is where he is trying to hold on to the ball and make a play. you know, the stuff that makes big ben, big ben

That's certainly been the company line, so points to you for that (there are several on this Board compiling Toadie Points, which you will be able to redeem later for free sodas at any Primanti Bros. near you).

The truth of the matter is that the Rooneys sunk quite a bit of money these past two years into an offensive line which is - by their own sworn testimony - built for run-blocking. We'll probably never know what was said behind closed doors, but you have to think the question came out of Art's mouth... Why did we pay all of that money for the wrong line, one that already looked like it was in over its head during the SB year?

Let's hope that there was also some discussion regarding the play-calling duties next year.

Shoes
01-06-2010, 05:03 PM
:screwy:

I didn't think you would get it!

LVSteelersfan
01-06-2010, 05:03 PM
It is just so frustrating that we had a season with so many creampuff teams and blew it big time. Next year the schedule is going to be much tougher. But at least we will get the third place schedule so that will help some. I figured Arians would be coming back. Not sure if that is the right decision but we could have gotten someone in here who totally screwed everything up just as easily. I just hope Tomlin takes some form of control over the offense next year especially when it comes to the red zone and third and short calls. I hope Frank the Tank comes back with a vengeance and once again Carey Davis is given the boot. I hated it when we had to go get him back after two other scrub teams dumped him because he wasn't good enough to make their rosters. Oh well, Arians doesn't use a FB any way.

ricardisimo
01-06-2010, 05:08 PM
It is just so frustrating that we had a season with so many creampuff teams and blew it big time. Next year the schedule is going to be much tougher. But at least we will get the third place schedule so that will help some. I figured Arians would be coming back. Not sure if that is the right decision but we could have gotten someone in here who totally screwed everything up just as easily. I just hope Tomlin takes some form of control over the offense next year especially when it comes to the red zone and third and short calls. I hope Frank the Tank comes back with a vengeance and once again Carey Davis is given the boot. I hated it when we had to go get him back after two other scrub teams dumped him because he wasn't good enough to make their rosters. Oh well, Arians doesn't use a FB any way.

I didn't see any problem with Davis. In fact, as I recall, he was busting ass on Special Teams starting his very first game back. Didn't see many other people trying as hard on STs.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 05:10 PM
You want owners like A. Davis or J. Jones? The Rooney's know the business of football better than most of us on this forum :chuckle: If the FO has different ideas about keeping Arians than Mike T, I'm sure they made clear their view on the subject. My guess is they left the decision up to Mike T, as a good owner should. I also suppose it will get Mike T. in high gear and hopefully have a big influence on the O play calling.....great post. the rooneys dont meddle or dictate, but they will give some of the most sound advice a HC can find. they didnt dictate that tomlin hire dick lebeau. he had every right to let him go. however they did state that they liked him and thought he was good for the team. tomlin heeded their advice.

but I trust the Rooneys' call more than I do yours, sorry. And I don't think the Rooneys would have hesitated for a second to pull rank on Tomlin and pull the plug on Arians if they felt it was absolutely warranted. thats just not the rooney way though. its the head coaches job to pull any player or coach into their office and hand them a pink slip, not the owners, or colberts.

If the guy learns how to adjust DURING the game....I'm fine with him staying.


oh, get a fullback for the love of god, and don't be so snobby about it.the adjustments are a must. they better learn to grind out the clock in the 4th quarter.

to be fair, they so have sean mchugh returning. him leading frank summers would seem like a pretty nice goal line package. i still wonder about their mystery injuries though. i think the steelers just wanted to stash them, w/o the risk of losing them while they evaluated the worthiness of players such as logan, spaeth, parker, and d. johnson.




Regarding Arians....the bottom line though, is if the defense and special teams are not fixed next year, it wouldn't matter if we had a reincarnated Bill Walsh running our offense. The defense and ST are the reasons we are not in the playoffs this season...not the offense.defense and special teams are 2/3 the reasons we are not in the playoffs



hahahah!!!

http://wmlbooklists.wikispaces.com/file/view/laughing.gif/37722077/laughing.gif

way to keep it classy! :thumbsup:

i believe these are exactly the types of posts that were not to be tolerated and deleted, had the rolls been reversed and arians WERE fired.

oh well... the polls on the matter are closed. let the mocking continue.

Psyychoward86
01-06-2010, 05:13 PM
I didn't think you would get it!

care to elaborate lol

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 05:27 PM
thats just not the rooney way though. its the head coaches job to pull any player or coach into their office and hand them a pink slip, not the owners, or colberts.

I realize that, but if Arians was as terrible as he's made out to be by the 'Nation at large, doesn't it stand to reason they just might have made an exception in this case and forced Tomlin's hand? This guy is the worst OC in team history, according to some, after all.

Texasteel
01-06-2010, 05:28 PM
.

to be fair, they so have sean mchugh returning. him leading frank summers would seem like a pretty nice goal line package. i still wonder about their mystery injuries though. i think the steelers just wanted to stash them, w/o the risk of losing them while they evaluated the worthiness of players such as logan, spaeth, parker, and d. johnson.
.

I have a feeling McHugh may have been a bigger loss than most of us think he was.

One thing we all can agree on is that this team has some work to do over the off season. Work I am positive will get done.

Shoes
01-06-2010, 05:29 PM
care to elaborate lol

No....you'll just have to go through life wondering :chuckle:

7SteelGal43
01-06-2010, 05:44 PM
Well...Bruce Arians is staying as Offensive Coordinator

www.postgazette.com/steelers

Steelers: Zierlein out, Arians stays
Wednesday, January 06, 2010
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Steelers have fired offensive line coach Larry Zierlein and told Bruce Arians he will be retained as the team's offensive coordinator, the Post-Gazette has learned.

Arians, who has a year remaining on his contract, had a long meeting today with Coach Mike Tomlin and was told he will return in that position in 2010.

Under Arians, the Steelers offense produced a 4,000-yard quarterback, two 1,000-yard receivers and a 1,000-yard running back in 2009 for the first time in franchise history.

Even though the running game improved this season from their Super Bowl season in 2008, averaging 112.1 yards per game, Zierlein was dismissed after Roethlisberger was sacked a personal-high 50 times this season.



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10006/1026257-100.stm#ixzz0brmwz2GP

:banging::mad:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 05:57 PM
I realize that, but if Arians was as terrible as he's made out to be by the 'Nation at large, doesn't it stand to reason they just might have made an exception in this case and forced Tomlin's hand? This guy is the worst OC in team history, according to some, after all.i guess the glass is either half full or half empty.

this "'Nation at large" that you speak of?

i think alot of people view them as people who would never question the rooneys, or coaches and assume that they always made the right decisions 100% of the time. :noidea:

really, how often have they forced the hand of noll, cowher or tomlin (they didnt even fire larry Z after he sent porn to the ENTIRE nfl)?

i believe someone relayed the story where the last time it was done was with tony dungy and dan rooney regretted the move ever since.

this is how the exit interview with tomlin and his boss could have played out.

ART II- we are not pleased with bruce.
MIKE- i would like to retain him. i can fix this and we can make it work.
ART II- you sure of this?
MIKE- yes sir.
ART II- you are aware we are ready to sit down and work on your extension?
MIKE- yes sir.
ART II- are you willing to tie your money to how well he preforms, while we evaluate him for another year before we decide which direction we go with him?
MIKE- 100% willing. we will get it corrected.
ART II- we trust your judgement. get er done.

mike will get an extension. im thinking there may be no raise in that extension, until after the bosses see how the arians experiment turns out.

Fire Haley
01-06-2010, 06:00 PM
BWAhahahahaha!

I told all y'all Tomlin didn't have the balls!

BWAhahahahaha

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 06:10 PM
i guess the glass is either half full or half empty.

this "'Nation at large" that you speak of?

i think alot of people view them as people who would never question the rooneys, or coaches and assume that they always made the right decisions 100% of the time. :noidea:.

Oh, really? You think Arians has the support of most of the fanbase, and by extension, agree with his being retained as OC for a 4th season? OK. :noidea:

For the record, as I've said numerous times, I don't care if he stays or goes.

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 06:11 PM
is it me or does it seem that the head hitting the wall smiley is getting a very good workout???lol:chuckle:

LukesDad88
01-06-2010, 06:24 PM
Doesn't matter, we have Dixon.....but he can't run because he might get hurt :chuckle:

You know, I bet a big part of the Arians bashing is because he won't use the Wildcat. Oh, a bunch of people will cry out that it has nothing to do with it, but I can't help but notice that most of the people bashing Arians are the same ones calling for Dixon to be used in a Wildcat.

I'm not a supporter of Arians playcalling through most of the season, I also think he pulled back on the no huddle offense because of all the praise Ben was getting, but still, I think the guy can prep a team well, can design a play well, and called a pretty good game against Miami. If he remembers that one should run the ball more than pass in arctic conditions with bad winds, then I'm fine with him getting another shot.

BlastFurnace
01-06-2010, 06:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocV5bGHdYag

MACH1
01-06-2010, 06:45 PM
You know, I bet a big part of the Arians bashing is because he won't use the Wildcat. Oh, a bunch of people will cry out that it has nothing to do with it, but I can't help but notice that most of the people bashing Arians are the same ones calling for Dixon to be used in a Wildcat.

I'm not a supporter of Arians playcalling through most of the season, I also think he pulled back on the no huddle offense because of all the praise Ben was getting, but still, I think the guy can prep a team well, can design a play well, and called a pretty good game against Miami. If he remembers that one should run the ball more than pass in arctic conditions with bad winds, then I'm fine with him getting another shot.

Umm How much you wanna bet?

Most of who are not Arian fans don't like his lack of clock management in 4th qtrs, poor redzone production and of course trying to get to cute at the absolute worst times.

And for the rest the D sucked this year too.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-06-2010, 07:00 PM
Arians position on the Wildcat is the most intelligent part of his offensive philosophy!!! Who is the Steelers BEST offensive player and MVP?? ......BEN

The Wildcat would take the football out of the hands of the best offensive player on the team, just so the fantasy league fans can say "me too...we run a wildcat:banana: ". The Browns do it to get Cribbs the ball, the Dolphins do it to get Ronnie Brown the ball. Its because they have crappy QB play.

Its one of the dumbest offensive strategies available for the Steelers, next to having Carey Davis on the field. :banging:

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Who would we hire?

Vincent
01-06-2010, 07:09 PM
I told all y'all Tomlin didn't have the balls!

He's stranded on planet Earth searching for clues.

mike will get an extension. im thinking there may be no raise in that extension, until after the bosses see how the arians experiment turns out.

Deep down in our bellies we all know how the BA experiment will play out. Another 50 sacks, 30th in the RZ, colossal underachievement, and 8-8. How many times do we need to see the movie?

The ONLY logic I see to this "situation" is the looming 2011 "work stoppage". It will happen.

We have an option year on MT. The Rooneys will "extend" him for 2 years at the current deal, meaning he's signed through 10 and 11. He gets his "press". They get theirs.

But in the strike year, they don't have a lot committed to MT. Depending on how he does in 10 will dictate another extension. If he underachieves in 10 they'll cut him loose in 11 without the obvious PR hit - a bad decision gone terminal.

So far this offseason is yet more MT bad decisions (arians) following a season of hollow rhetoric (unleash hell, etc) and bad decisions (where do I start?).

TackleMeBen
01-06-2010, 07:10 PM
Who would we hire?
it wont be weis since he just got hired by KC...lol:chuckle:

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 07:17 PM
Umm How much you wanna bet?

Most of who are not Arian fans don't like his lack of clock management in 4th qtrs, poor redzone production and of course trying to get to cute at the absolute worst times.

And for the rest the D sucked this year too.

Good response to a ridiculous post. :thumbsup:

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 07:21 PM
Oh, really? You think Arians has the support of most of the fanbase, and by extension, agree with his being retained as OC for a 4th season? OK. :noidea:
.yep. :yep: that is, infact, exactly what i believe.

im sure many peoples perception of the entire "steelernation" is based on what they read on message board forums, or hear on radio call in shows, which i would say is just a small percentage and not large enough of a pool group, made up of some of the most passionate and die hard fans of the entire base.

but then again, that is just my opinion and i wouldnt know where to find any facts to back that up.

im sure there are residents of pittsburgh who can tell me i am wrong because they live in the city and have their finger on the pulse, but then again, we are talking about another group (many of whom are more passionate, and die hard, than the norm) that is relatively small (isnt the pgh population only 300,000?) :noidea:

my perception of the steeler fanbase is in general, a group that will follow its team anywhere they can, buy the products, and support the team no matter what and what they do.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 07:25 PM
But in the strike year, they don't have a lot committed to MT. Depending on how he does in 10 will dictate another extension. If he underachieves in 10 they'll cut him loose in 11 without the obvious PR hit - a bad decision gone terminal.

So far this offseason is yet more MT bad decisions (arians) following a season of hollow rhetoric (unleash hell, etc) and bad decisions (where do I start?).

tomlin would become the patriots next HC once belichick retired.

SteelCityMom
01-06-2010, 07:36 PM
yep. :yep: that is, infact, exactly what i believe.

im sure many peoples perception of the entire "steelernation" is based on what they read on message board forums, or hear on radio call in shows, which i would say is just a small percentage and not large enough of a pool group, made up of some of the most passionate and die hard fans of the entire base.

but then again, that is just my opinion and i wouldnt know where to find any facts to back that up.

im sure there are residents of pittsburgh who can tell me i am wrong because they live in the city and have their finger on the pulse, but then again, we are talking about another group (many of whom are more passionate, and die hard, than the norm) that is relatively small (isnt the pgh population only 300,000?) :noidea:

my perception of the steeler fanbase is in general, a group that will follow its team anywhere they can, buy the products, and support the team no matter what and what they do.

The city population is only a little over 300k...the surrounding area has a couple million of Steelers fans in it though lol. A good number do hate Arians. I've heard it uttered at enough bars and clubs to know it's the general consensus.

But you are somewhat correct in your assessment that nobody can really know what the majority thinks because it's near impossible to hear the majorities opinion on it. I'm just going off of what I hear around the city, online, on the radio, in the paper etc. etc.

stillers4me
01-06-2010, 07:41 PM
The city population is only a little over 300k...the surrounding area has a couple million of Steelers fans in it though lol. A good number do hate Arians. I've heard it uttered at enough bars and clubs to know it's the general consensus.

But you are somewhat correct in your assessment that nobody can really know what the majority thinks because it's near impossible to hear the majorities opinion on it. I'm just going off of what I hear around the city, online, on the radio, in the paper etc. etc.

There's usually no less than 150-200 people on any given Sunday at our Steelers bar in Cinci. On big games, the upstairs is also open and it probably holds 150 people. (the playoffs were standing room only). When Arians is shown during a game, the whole place erupts in boos.

Can everybody be that wrong? :hunch:

DoctorCAD
01-06-2010, 07:45 PM
I just cant take another season of run run pass punt...

I really cant...

I'm so depressed

I may lower my Steeler flag to half staff

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 07:55 PM
There's usually no less than 150-200 people on any given Sunday at our Steelers bar in Cinci. On big games, the upstairs is also open and it probably holds 150 people. (the playoffs were standing room only). When Arians is shown during a game, the whole place erupts in boos.

Can everybody be that wrong? :hunch:

yep. theyre all just idiots and haters (even though steelerfans are generally regarded as one of the most knowledgeable fanbases in all of sports).

MasterOfPuppets
01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
needless to say...the guys at firebrucearians.com are pretty bummed .....:sofunny:

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 08:02 PM
I just cant take another season of run run pass punt...

I really cant...

I'm so depressed

I may lower my Steeler flag to half staff

Lol. We don't run the ball 66% of the time. Are you having flashbacks from 5 years ago?

stillers4me
01-06-2010, 08:03 PM
yep. theyre all just idiots and haters (even though steelerfans are generally regarded as one of the most knowledgeable fanbases in all of sports).

As long as I know that upfront........ :sofunny:

X-Terminator
01-06-2010, 08:52 PM
No gloating, no laughing, no childishness from me regarding Arians being retained...but I figured it would happen. It seems to me that his being retained is contingent on him fixing the problems with the red zone offense, committing more to the run and calling plays that will keep Ben off his back the majority of the time. I also see him turning over more and more of the play calling over to Ben, and Tomlin having more say over the game plan. I understand that those who don't like him will never like him and will never accept him, but the least you all can do is suck it up and get behind him, because like it or not, he represents your favorite team.

And yes, Tony, the sentiment you see here on this board is the sentiment of The Nation at large here in Pittsburgh. Arians is approaching Ray Lewis status as far as hatred goes among the fanbase. Hell, I dare say the fans actually like Killuh Ray better.

Psyychoward86
01-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Arians only has one more year left on his contract for those of you who are wondering......

maybe they just want him to finish up his last year first and see how things go?

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 09:02 PM
Arians only has one more year left on his contract for those of you who are wondering......

maybe they just want him to finish up his last year first and see how things go?

This is probably what is going on. Like someone else said(not sure who, but I think it was the Cheese) he was probably told to shape up or he was going to be shiped out.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 09:14 PM
I understand that those who don't like him will never like him and will never accept him, but the least you all can do is suck it up and get behind him, because like it or not, he represents your favorite team.


I'll be very honest with you. That is gonna be very hard to do. Everytime I've tried that in the past, he calls for 5 wide on 3rd and 2, or inside the 10 yd. line, and we go right back to square one.


And yes, Tony, the sentiment you see here on this board is the sentiment of The Nation at large here in Pittsburgh. Arians is approaching Ray Lewis status as far as hatred goes among the fanbase. Hell, I dare say the fans actually like Killuh Ray better.

That might not be that far from the truth. I think I might be a member of that club.


I'm disgusted right now! This is truly a dark day for Steeler Nation.


Rockon

Steeldude
01-06-2010, 09:15 PM
so another season of al davis ball :doh:

Glace
01-06-2010, 09:16 PM
Well, I said it before the announcement and I'll say it again...

There are points to be made on both sides of this argument, but no matter what happens, I stand behind the Steelers decision.

I'm curious to see if a new O-Line coach can whip them into shape. I don't doubt that our O-Line has talent, but I got sick of them seeming like they had no idea who to pick up or what to do.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 09:20 PM
so another season of al davis ball :doh:

Every defensive coordinator on our division popped a bottle of champagne today! Starting in Cleveland. I'm sure they're all looking forward to exposing more of the many flaws in BA's wack-ass offense. I think Rob Ryan just called another blitz and the Browns sacked Ben again, just to celebrate the good news!! :rofl:


Rockon

Glace
01-06-2010, 09:34 PM
I just cant take another season of run run pass punt...

I really cant...

I'm so depressed

I may lower my Steeler flag to half staff

Which games were you watching...to be exact?

X-Terminator
01-06-2010, 09:39 PM
I'll be very honest with you. That is gonna be very hard to do. Everytime I've tried that in the past, he calls for 5 wide on 3rd and 2, or inside the 10 yd. line, and we go right back to square one.

Dude, I didn't like his playcalling on 3rd and short or in the red zone any more than you did. I agree with all of the haters that they need to be fixed, and I believe they will be. But I'm also not so blind that I don't see the good he has done with this offense.


That might not be that far from the truth. I think I might be a member of that club.

And I find that sad. NO ONE on the team should be hated more than a player on a rival team. EVER.

I'm disgusted right now! This is truly a dark day for Steeler Nation.

I'll say to you what I always say to people who feel this way - if a football team or player has that much of an effect on your life, then I think it's time for a heart-to-heart talk with yourself. It's a game played by people that you don't know and likely will never know. It's a diversion from your every day life...and that's all it should be.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 09:52 PM
Dude, I didn't like his playcalling on 3rd and short or in the red zone any more than you did. I agree with all of the haters that they need to be fixed, and I believe they will be. But I'm also not so blind that I don't see the good he has done with this offense.




And I find that sad. NO ONE on the team should be hated more than a player on a rival team. EVER.



I'll say to you what I always say to people who feel this way - if a football team or player has that much of an effect on your life, then I think it's time for a heart-to-heart talk with yourself. It's a game played by people that you don't know and likely will never know. It's a diversion from your every day life...and that's all it should be.

Well, I haven't beaten the kids or wifey yet. So, I'm good there. No dog to kick, so I'm good there. But, threre is a certain part of my life/emotions that I do allow my love for the Steelers to occupy. And right now, that place is not a happy one. I'm very disappointed in the MT and the FO. Yeah, I'll be hoping for improvement, but, I don't really see where or why there'll be much change next season. We'll still have terrible 3rd down efficiency, be bad in the red zone and horribly unbalanced and predictable. Other than that, they should be fine.


Rockon

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 09:58 PM
I'm curious to see if a new O-Line coach can whip them into shape. I don't doubt that our O-Line has talent, but I got sick of them seeming like they had no idea who to pick up or what to do.

im pretty sure that now, they will actually be sitting in meetings watching game tape of the opponents as opposed to sitting there and passing around copies of penthouse and hustler for 2 hours.

:grouphug::jerkit:

HometownGal
01-06-2010, 10:06 PM
I like how everybody who is not completely supporting this decision is a "whinny fan". If we're that, then you all are "blind sheep" if you think this is the 100% right decision.

We'll see where we're at next year, because I doubt thing will change...

I support Arians but if the Steelers FO/Tomlin had decided to cut him loose, I would have trusted their decision. They know what is best for this team far better than we do, believe it or not.

Nothing blind about me. I could clearly see that our D was the root of our problems this season, not the O. Twasn't the Steelers O who blew leads late in the game. :wink: I didn't always see eye to eye with BA's playcalling, but I don't deem myself an expert and I wasn't hired to run an NFL offense. All in all, I think the man did a pretty good job with these guys and I'm happy he's going to be kept on. :thumbsup:

steeltheone
01-06-2010, 10:09 PM
I'm 49 years old with an excellent memory and imo it was a distinct minority that had a major problem with Earhardt, Gailey, and Whisenhunt while they were acting in the capacity as Steelers OC.

Ok It was Gilbride, Sherman and Joe Walton ...Not Ron Erhardt, the fans ran out of town

KYsteelfan
01-06-2010, 10:15 PM
Well, I said it before the announcement and I'll say it again...

There are points to be made on both sides of this argument, but no matter what happens, I stand behind the Steelers decision.

I'm curious to see if a new O-Line coach can whip them into shape. I don't doubt that our O-Line has talent, but I got sick of them seeming like they had no idea who to pick up or what to do.

I agree 100%. yes theres some bad. I cant stand the empty backfield 5 wide 3 and 2s or the lack of red zone production.
:drink:Heres to hoping the new Oline coach can get our line playing to their potential. Im a firm believer that if our line was solid that this offense would be one of the best in the league.

Vincent
01-06-2010, 10:16 PM
tomlin would become the patriots next HC once belichick retired.

Promise?

KeiselPower99
01-07-2010, 12:03 AM
I think Arians being retained has alot to do with the fact we had a potent offense this year and Tomlin probably told him that he wanted more runs called in short yardage and in red zone. A lil thing I noticed was Zerlein? was the O line coach for the Browns when Arians was OC there. Anyways I support the decision to keep Arians and expect more runs next year. Like I said earlier we have a QB thats top 5 in the league and you want the ball in his hands making plays. And like it or not Arians calls plays for Ben to do that.

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 12:12 AM
I'm 49 years old with an excellent memory and imo it was a distinct minority that had a major problem with Earhardt, Gailey, and Whisenhunt while they were acting in the capacity as Steelers OC.

Ok It was Gilbride, Sherman and Joe Walton ...Not Ron Erhardt, the fans ran out of townyou better run your memory by guru first, before you make such a wild and bizarre claim. :wink02:

(thats how i remember it though- even mularky had his fair ammount of supporters but the whole maddox vs kordell debate really cloudied that mess)

mularkey was given the boot for ignoring the run.

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 12:26 AM
Who would we hire?

Rain Man :noidea:

maybe Forrest Gump?

OneForTheToe
01-07-2010, 12:27 AM
Arians position on the Wildcat is the most intelligent part of his offensive philosophy!!! Who is the Steelers BEST offensive player and MVP?? ......BEN

The Wildcat would take the football out of the hands of the best offensive player on the team, just so the fantasy league fans can say "me too...we run a wildcat:banana: ". The Browns do it to get Cribbs the ball, the Dolphins do it to get Ronnie Brown the ball. Its because they have crappy QB play.

Its one of the dumbest offensive strategies available for the Steelers, next to having Carey Davis on the field. :banging:

But what about having Carey Davis run the wildcat? :huh:

Just imagine the speed. Wait for it ............. just a little longer ...
.............pretty soon ...........almost ........................
just another second .... there he goes ...... he made it out of the
huddle.:thumbsup::laughing:

MACH1
01-07-2010, 12:28 AM
Rain Man :noidea:

maybe Forrest Gump?

Bobby Boucher

Steeldude
01-07-2010, 12:29 AM
They know what is best for this team far better than we do, believe it or not

not all of the time.

the kordell experiment was not best for the team. :smile:

Steeldude
01-07-2010, 12:32 AM
Rain Man :noidea:

maybe Forrest Gump?

how about corky?

http://www.basicfamouspeople.com/pictures/5970.jpg

i know, i'm going to hell for that :wave:

HometownGal
01-07-2010, 06:38 AM
not all of the time.

the kordell experiment was not best for the team. :smile:

Kordodobird had some bright spots in his career and was a tremendous athlete, but had a two cent head.

Rockonsteel
01-07-2010, 07:35 AM
Now...we can all put our focus on where Cowher will coach rumor mill since that seems to be another popular topic.

Regarding Arians....the bottom line though, is if the defense and special teams are not fixed next year, it wouldn't matter if we had a reincarnated Bill Walsh running our offense. The defense and ST are the reasons we are not in the playoffs this season...not the offense.

If the Steelers score more than 6 pts. against the Browns or 12 pts. against the Bengals, they're in the playoffs easy. Division winners, likely, in second scenario, in spite of how all the other games played out. The offense is every bit as culpable for the failures of this season, as the defense and STs. Don't fool yourself by focusing on "shiny" stats. Just sayin'.



Rockon

zulater
01-07-2010, 07:43 AM
If the Steelers score more than 6 pts. against the Browns or 12 pts. against the Bengals, they're in the playoffs easy. Division winners, likely, in second scenario, in spite of how all the other games played out. The offense is every bit as culpable for the failures of this season, as the defense and STs. Don't fool yourself by focusing on "shiny" stats. Just sayin'.



Rockon

I love the one where they try to absolve the offense of culpability for the Chiefs loss when 10 of the Chiefs points came off turnovers and the Steelers scored their final touchdown off a short field from a forced defensive turnover. :screwy:

All 3 units, offense, defense, and special teams took turns sabatoging the season in turn, none were good enough, not even close.

plenewken
01-07-2010, 07:54 AM
I could clearly see that our D was the root of our problems this season, not the O. Twasn't the Steelers O who blew leads late in the game. :wink:

Hi, it's me again. <g>

1) Opponents have also an offense and they seem to know better than us how to use it at the end of the games
2) In order for the defense to "blow a lead" as you put it, the opponent's offense must have the ball, right? So why is it that not only our offense can't stay on the field to kill the clock but more importantly, why is it that they leave the field without scoring a single friggin' point more often than none?
3) Last, a one possession lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter ain't a lead you should consider sufficient and expect the defense to protect all the time. It's like telling us a 1 stroke lead after 3 rounds of golf should be enough to win a tournament.

Tell us how many games where we had a 2 possessions lead during the 4th Q the defense (not ST) lost.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 08:32 AM
OK....looks like posts were redacted. Let's try this again.

Question: Do the people questioning this move believe that they know more than the FO does about what's best for this team? Or do they believe that the Rooney's are purposefully trying to undermine the chances for Steelers success in the future.

Because if you honestly think the decision to retain Arians was a mistake, there are really only those two options.

Raw Steel
01-07-2010, 08:37 AM
OK....looks like posts were redacted. Let's try this again.

Question: Do the people questioning this move believe that they know more than the FO does about what's best for this team? Or do they believe that the Rooney's are purposefully trying to undermine the chances for Steelers success in the future.

Because if you honestly think the decision to retain Arians was a mistake, there are really only those two options.

There are a lot of reports floating around that the front office wanted Arians out. But we don't know if that's the Rooney's position or not. We do know that they don't micro-manage and this decision was Tomlin's.

stillers4me
01-07-2010, 08:38 AM
OK....looks like posts were redacted. Let's try this again.

Question: Do the people questioning this move believe that they know more than the FO does about what's best for this team? Or do they believe that the Rooney's are purposefully trying to undermine the chances for Steelers success in the future.

Because if you honestly think the decision to retain Arians was a mistake, there are really only those two options.

3. The Rooney are too cheap to pay a real OC.












JUST KIDDDDDIIIING.