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Rockonsteel
01-07-2010, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockonsteel View Post
If the Steelers score more than 6 pts. against the Browns or 12 pts. against the Bengals, they're in the playoffs easy. Division winners, likely, in second scenario, in spite of how all the other games played out. The offense is every bit as culpable for the failures of this season, as the defense and STs. Don't fool yourself by focusing on "shiny" stats. Just sayin'.






I love the one where they try to absolve the offense of culpability for the Chiefs loss when 10 of the Chiefs points came off turnovers and the Steelers scored their final touchdown off a short field from a forced defensive turnover. :screwy:

All 3 units, offense, defense, and special teams took turns sabatoging the season in turn, none were good enough, not even close.


Exactly. To keep the post short, I didn't even go into all the TOs that helped the D give up some of those 4th quarter leads. Like the pick against the Bengals up 20-9. Or the two picks against the Chiefs when they were doing nothing offensively. Or the interception against the Ravens in OT. Not to mention several red zone picks that took points off the board. The offense is far from being absolved of responsibility for the team's collapse this season.



Rockon

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 08:40 AM
There are a lot of reports floating around that the front office wanted Arians out. But we don't know if that's the Rooney's position or not. We do know that they don't micro-manage and this decision was Tomlin's.

Wexell said THEY wanted him gone. In 30-some years of following Steelers football, I know of NO examples where the Rooney's will was ignored or denied.

This smacks of lynch mob fans seeking a scapegoat, and Arians being the perfect foil for them. ANY mumbling out of the organization that fit THEIR wish to can Arians was overstated...it was wishful thinking exaggerating the situation.

zulater
01-07-2010, 08:42 AM
OK....looks like posts were redacted. Let's try this again.

Question: Do the people questioning this move believe that they know more than the FO does about what's best for this team? Or do they believe that the Rooney's are purposefully trying to undermine the chances for Steelers success in the future.

Because if you honestly think the decision to retain Arians was a mistake, there are really only those two options.

I don't think either.

I think Bruce Arians is competent, I think he's done some good things, but I don't think he's the right man to get Ben to play to his fullest level. I think there's logical arguments to be made for keeping him and also to dismiss him. I think both those arguments have been made inside the Steelers orginization and for the time being the status quo has won out. Whether that's good or bad will be determined in the season ahead. :noidea:

Last thing Arians obviously has support within the orginization, but I also think it's fairly obvious he has his detractors as well. But the one thing you don't see happening is Arian's getting an extension when he's coming up on the last year of his contract. So I still think he stands on a slipperly slope.

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Wexell said THEY wanted him gone. In 30-some years of following Steelers football, I know of NO examples where the Rooney's will was ignored or denied.

.FAIL

the Chief (that would be Art Rooney to you) wanted to draft dan marino.

thats just one.

i guess they would call any random guru's any time there was a disagreement?

zulater
01-07-2010, 08:45 AM
Wexell said THEY wanted him gone. In 30-some years of following Steelers football, I know of NO examples where the Rooney's will was ignored or denied.

The Rooney's do not impose their will on their coaches. That's why they've sustained success for 40 years. As I said before, there was one instance where Rooney reportedly dictated a coaching change to Noll, and he regretted it thereafter and vowed never to do so again. The coach of course was Tony Dungy who at the time was the Steelers defensive coordinater.

steelax04
01-07-2010, 08:45 AM
Exactly. To keep the post short, I didn't even go into all the TOs that helped the D give up some of those 4th quarter leads. Like the pick against the Bengals up 20-9. Or the two picks against the Chiefs when they were doing nothing offensively. Or the interception against the Ravens in OT. Not to mention several red zone picks that took points off the board. The offense is far from being absolved of responsibility for the team's collapse this season.



So who is at fault then... BA or the players? Arians seems to be taking the full force of everyone's wrath, but in the examples above, to me, it seems as if the players just didn't hold up their end of the bargain...

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 08:48 AM
That's B then. You're just being slippery as you backpeddle...which is understandable. You didn't get what you wanted, and this clearly presents you and others in your camp with not much ground to stand on. You were wrong and the FO made a different decision than you...the CORRECT decision. Whining and gnashing of teeth ensues...

I repeat. The Rooney's KNOW football. Colbert KNOWS football. Tomlin KNOWS football. These guys are NOT going to do anything to jeopardize the future success of this team.

The correct and proper thing to do now is act like men, sack up, and pull for Arians to lead this team to great things next year.

zulater
01-07-2010, 08:58 AM
That's B then. You're just being slippery as you backpeddle...which is understandable. You didn't get what you wanted, and this clearly presents you and others in your camp with not much ground to stand on. You were wrong and the FO made a different decision than you...the CORRECT decision. Whining and gnashing of teeth ensues...

I repeat. The Rooney's KNOW football. Colbert KNOWS football. Tomlin KNOWS football. These guys are NOT going to do anything to jeopardize the future success of this team.

The correct and proper thing to do now is act like men, sack up, and pull for Arians to lead this team to great things next year.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. Of course we're all pulling for Arains do get the job done well. We're just skeptical, and explaining why.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 09:06 AM
Agreed, agreed, agreed. Of course we're all pulling for Arains do get the job done well. We're just skeptical, and explaining why.

Practical question: Since there are literally probably 100,000 posts on this board already expressing skepticism concerning BA, is there any reason to continually run over the same ground?

We get it. You guys don't like him, and the new argument (equally weak and ridiculous given BA's history developing QB's) is that Arians is "bad" for Ben.

What else ya got? Because we've heard all this 10,000 times before. Or is this just the way it has to be? You "MUST be heard"? And the rest of us just have to accept that because the FO decided differently than all of you, we have to suffer through multiple redundant whining threads about it all offseason?

Raw Steel
01-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Wexell said THEY wanted him gone. In 30-some years of following Steelers football, I know of NO examples where the Rooney's will was ignored or denied.

This smacks of lynch mob fans seeking a scapegoat, and Arians being the perfect foil for them. ANY mumbling out of the organization that fit THEIR wish to can Arians was overstated...it was wishful thinking exaggerating the situation.

You are stating this like you know it's fact. The bottom line is neither you or I know what anyone was thinking in the front office. Like any company, people at different levels disagree. Art Rooney and Joe Greene could easily have thought it might be a good idea to change OCs while maybe Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin thought otherwise. Colbert and Tomlin state their case and Rooney gives them the benefit of the doubt and let's them make the decision. I am not saying it played out that way. I am saying we don't know how it played out. Don't be arrogant and act like you know everything that goes on in the Steelers organization. None of us do.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 09:14 AM
You are stating this like you know it's fact. The bottom line is neither you or I know what anyone was thinking in the front office. Like any company, people at different levels disagree. Art Rooney and Joe Greene could easily have thought it might be a good idea to change OCs while maybe Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin thought otherwise. Colbert and Tomlin state their case and Rooney gives them the benefit of the doubt and let's them make the decision. I am not saying it played out that way. I am saying we don't know how it played out. Don't be arrogant and act like you know everything that goes on in the Steelers organization. None of us do.

I know what the final result was. And it was exactly what I expected it to be...it's cool. You either think you know better or think the FO is out to sabotage the Steelers.

Don't blame ME for that, though...

Raw Steel
01-07-2010, 09:18 AM
I know what the final result was. And it was exactly what I expected it to be...it's cool. You either think you know better or think the FO is out to sabotage the Steelers.

Don't blame ME for that, though...

I don't claim to know better than the front office and of course the Steelers are doing everything they can to win. I have an opinion like anyone else.

I also think the Rooney's are great football people and the best owners in professional sports. But they also went through a drought without a championship for 25 years. So, apparently they don't always get it right. Maybe they are getting this wrong.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 09:23 AM
I don't claim to know better than the front office and of course the Steelers are doing everything they can to win. I have an opinion like anyone else.

I also think the Rooney's are great football people and the best owners in professional sports. But they also went through a drought without a championship for 25 years. So, apparently they don't always get it right. Maybe they are getting this wrong.

Didn't have the money for a QB. No coincidence that within a few years of opening Heinz, they HAD their QB, and shortly thereafter, they start winning SB's again.

Or is THAT open to debate simply because I'm the one stating it?

Raw Steel
01-07-2010, 09:26 AM
Didn't have the money for a QB? Never heard that one before. But run with it if it makes you feel better.

43Hitman
01-07-2010, 09:28 AM
Didn't have the money for a QB. No coincidence that within a few years of opening Heinz, they HAD their QB, and shortly thereafter, they start winning SB's again.

Or is THAT open to debate simply because I'm the one stating it?

Is this a joke?

zulater
01-07-2010, 09:35 AM
Didn't have the money for a QB. No coincidence that within a few years of opening Heinz, they HAD their QB, and shortly thereafter, they start winning SB's again.

Or is THAT open to debate simply because I'm the one stating it?

They didn't? Then how do you explain those contracts they gave Jim Miller and Kordell Stewart? They simply made mistakes and put money in the wrong places at the time. Even great orginizations make mistakes.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Is this a joke?


Are you guys serious?

I mean, I HAVE to ask. This is pretty much common knowledge. There's a REASON we ran with guys like Bubby Brister and Kordell and Neil O'Donnell. There's a REASON the Steelers demanded an updated stadium with PSL's and loges. There's a reason the Steelers NEVER draft QB in the first round (Mark Malone was the last, and that was what, 1980?). There's a REASON that Ben was drafted in the first round shortly thereafter, and a REASON that he signed the richest contract in Steelers history.

You guys REALLY don't know this? And you want to MOCK me for not knowing what I'M talking about?

This is TOO funny!

zulater
01-07-2010, 09:39 AM
Practical question: Since there are literally probably 100,000 posts on this board already expressing skepticism concerning BA, is there any reason to continually run over the same ground?

It's our offseason. I don't feel like talking about the Bengals.

We get it. You guys don't like him, and the new argument (equally weak and ridiculous given BA's history developing QB's) is that Arians is "bad" for Ben.

I think he's been good for Ben. I just don't think he can get him any further than he has. I think a new voice is needed. [/SIZE

]What else ya got? Because we've heard all this 10,000 times before. Or is this just the way it has to be? You "MUST be heard"?

[SIZE="5"]It's a Steelers message board. It's currently topical, I have the right to express my opinion.

And the rest of us just have to accept that because the FO decided differently than all of you, we have to suffer through multiple redundant whining threads about it all offseason?

There's other threads. Skip over what ya don't like.

zulater
01-07-2010, 09:42 AM
Are you guys serious?

I mean, I HAVE to ask. This is pretty much common knowledge. There's a REASON we ran with guys like Bubby Brister and Kordell and Neil O'Donnell. There's a REASON the Steelers demanded an updated stadium with PSL's and loges. There's a reason the Steelers NEVER draft QB in the first round (Mark Malone was the last, and that was what, 1980?). There's a REASON that Ben was drafted in the first round shortly thereafter, and a REASON that he signed the richest contract in Steelers history.

You guys REALLY don't know this? And you want to MOCK me for not knowing what I'M talking about?

This is TOO funny!

Kordell was paid a pretty good sum of money before Heinz field was opened. I'd say he was easily top 1/3 in the league salary wise. The Steelers thought he was the guy to take them to the top. They were wrong. It happens

43Hitman
01-07-2010, 09:43 AM
There's a REASON that Ben was drafted in the first round shortly thereafter, and a REASON that he signed the richest contract in Steelers history.



Reason #1- We had the eleventh pick.

Reason #2- We won a SB

You DON'T know this.


This is TOO funny.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 09:49 AM
I give up...I'm literally.....speechless. That doesn't happen often, but this is....it's just unprecedented.

"The braintrust" is a VERY fitting moniker....

zulater
01-07-2010, 09:52 AM
Reason #1- We had the eleventh pick.

Reason #2- We won a SB

You DON'T know this.


This is TOO funny.

Revs also forgets the Steelers threw a pretty good sum of money at Tommy Maddox.They expected him to succeed. There was no grand plan to get our franchise qb in the 2004 draft. Thankfully things just fell in place right. Good thing the Browns and Raiders are morons.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 10:12 AM
Ahahahaha....

Maddox's salary was something like 2.75 million his last year.

Kordell was paid a bonus of 8.1 and I think the high point of his contract was for 6 million in a single season (and I think that INCLUDED bonus money)....BUT Rooney was already thinking of Heinz field revenues when he made that offer. And his TOTAL contract was for 27.1.

Ben's is over 100 million.

Heinz equaled unprecedented revenue for the Rooney's. It ALLOWED them to pay for players they never could before, including Kordell's above average contract. Ben was the true beneficiary. Without Heinz, there is no Ben, and there are no Super Bowls. The difference between the Steelers of the 90's and the Steelers of the aughts IS BEN.

I'm a little surprised you kids didn't know this...on second though, no, I'm not.

Glace
01-07-2010, 10:15 AM
Maddox just got enough of a boost to get him off of "backup salary" once he took the starting role.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 10:18 AM
Revs also forgets the Steelers threw a pretty good sum of money at Tommy Maddox.They expected him to succeed. There was no grand plan to get our franchise qb in the 2004 draft. Thankfully things just fell in place right. Good thing the Browns and Raiders are morons.

That money they paid Maddox was the equivalent of piss drop in a bucket compared to what Ben got. It wasn't anything at all to write home about. Ben makes more money in 4 games than Maddox did in an entire season.

No, there was no grand plan to get our franchise QB in that draft - I believe Cowher wanted to draft a CB but was overruled by Dan Rooney. But they drafted Ben knowing that if he turned out to be a star, they would have to pay him a king's ransom, which they did end having because of Heinz Field producing the revenue needed to do so. I doubt they'd have been able to pay him that much pre-Heinz, and he would have ended up playing for the Cowboys.

SteelMember
01-07-2010, 10:22 AM
There's a REASON that Ben was drafted in the first round shortly thereafter.

:toofunny:

Yeah. He fell into our lap.

But I'm sure it was all planned because Heinz field was just finished.

ridiculous.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-07-2010, 10:23 AM
That money they paid Maddox was the equivalent of piss drop in a bucket compared to what Ben got. It wasn't anything at all to write home about. Ben makes more money in 4 games than Maddox did in an entire season.

No, there was no grand plan to get our franchise QB in that draft - I believe Cowher wanted to draft a CB but was overruled by Dan Rooney. But they drafted Ben knowing that if he turned out to be a star, they would have to pay him a king's ransom, which they did end having because of Heinz Field producing the revenue needed to do so. I doubt they'd have been able to pay him that much pre-Heinz, and he would have ended up playing for the Cowboys.

I dont think that was the case. The popuplar thought that year was the Steelers needed a QB(Eli, Ben and Rivers were there), and Cowher wanted fellow NC State alum Philip Rivers.

I think most believed that all 3 would be gone by then, but when Ben was still standing they picked him. Do you remember Cowher called Ben on the cell right when he was talking to Suzy Kolber on TV??

steelax04
01-07-2010, 10:23 AM
... he would have ended up playing for the Cowboys.


Didn't he in the Super Bowl? Oh, I thought you were talking about Maddox there for a split second... :chuckle:

plenewken
01-07-2010, 10:29 AM
Ahahahaha....

Maddox's salary was something like 2.75 million his last year.

Kordell was paid a bonus of 8.1 and I think the high point of his contract was for 6 million in a single season (and I think that INCLUDED bonus money)....BUT Rooney was already thinking of Heinz field revenues when he made that offer. And his TOTAL contract was for 27.1.

Ben's is over 100 million.

Heinz equaled unprecedented revenue for the Rooney's. It ALLOWED them to pay for players they never could before, including Kordell's above average contract. Ben was the true beneficiary. Without Heinz, there is no Ben, and there are no Super Bowls. The difference between the Steelers of the 90's and the Steelers of the aughts IS BEN.

I'm a little surprised you kids didn't know this...on second though, no, I'm not.

Heinz Field suites or not, there's something called Salary Cap in the NFL which limits the amount of money you can spend on your roster. I know about the alchemy involved with loaded contracts upfront but at the end of the day, it's still money against the cap. I think the reason why the Rooney's didn't go after a QB earlier is because they had committed most of the cap with other players (Kordell for example) and they couldn't afford going after a future star QB, cap wise, not $$$ wise.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
Heinz Field suites or not, there's something called Salary Cap in the NFL which limits the amount of money you can spend on your roster. I know about the alchemy involved with loaded contracts upfront but at the end of the day, it's still money against the cap. I think the reason why the Rooney's didn't go after a QB earlier is because they had committed most of the cap with other players (Kordell for example) and they couldn't afford going after a future star QB, cap wise, not $$$ wise.

They would not have been able to spend to the growing salary cap were it not for Heinz Field. It was their entire reasoning for asking for the new stadium in the first place. So it absolutely is a reason why they could afford to spend the draft pick and the money on Ben.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-07-2010, 10:49 AM
They would not have been able to spend to the growing salary cap were it not for Heinz Field. It was their entire reasoning for asking for the new stadium in the first place. So it absolutely is a reason why they could afford to spend the draft pick and the money on Ben.

You are really grasping at making the specific "Ben " connection. You do know that.

Yes, Heinz Field allowed for more revenue for the organization to spend on their own players and free agents like Jeff Hartings, James Farrior, Wayne Gandy, etc. Its still a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing.....unlike MLB where the Yankees, Braves, RedSox, Dodgers are always competitive and Milwaukee, Seattle, Pittsburgh are not.

Also, the rookie salary positions are pretty much slotted, so at #11 they were going to pay Ben the same as if they selected Dunta Robinson at #11. Its just the following contracts that would be dependant.

The Steelers built Heinz to draft a franchise QB...specifically Ben???? That is a huge reach. More like they built Heinz because TRS was a 30 year old eyesore and Heinz would keep them competitve in attracting, retaining and paying to the cap.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 10:50 AM
Heinz Field suites or not, there's something called Salary Cap in the NFL which limits the amount of money you can spend on your roster. I know about the alchemy involved with loaded contracts upfront but at the end of the day, it's still money against the cap. I think the reason why the Rooney's didn't go after a QB earlier is because they had committed most of the cap with other players (Kordell for example) and they couldn't afford going after a future star QB, cap wise, not $$$ wise.

Salary cap or not, the Rooney's SOLE interest is football. The game was changing, and so were the sources of revenue. The team IS allowed to make a profit, and they could also LOSE money.

The bottom line remains: No new stadium, no 100 million contracts.

I thought this was common knowledge...guess not.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 11:17 AM
You are really grasping at making the specific "Ben " connection. You do know that.

Yes, Heinz Field allowed for more revenue for the organization to spend on their own players and free agents like Jeff Hartings, James Farrior, Wayne Gandy, etc. Its still a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing.....unlike MLB where the Yankees, Braves, RedSox, Dodgers are always competitive and Milwaukee, Seattle, Pittsburgh are not.

Also, the rookie salary positions are pretty much slotted, so at #11 they were going to pay Ben the same as if they selected Dunta Robinson at #11. Its just the following contracts that would be dependant.

The Steelers built Heinz to draft a franchise QB...specifically Ben???? That is a huge reach. More like they built Heinz because TRS was a 30 year old eyesore and Heinz would keep them competitve in attracting, retaining and paying to the cap.

All of that, just to end up agreeing with me. That is what I said! :doh: There is no way in hell the Steelers would have been able to pay Ben $100 million if they still played at TRS, and they definitely would have been hesitant to draft him at all for that very reason.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 11:34 AM
As usual, Gonzo MUST be contrarian. Probably simply because it's ME once again calling attention to something I thought was common knowledge, but, not surprisingly, was NOT amongst the braintrust.

The Steelers had not drafted a QB in the first round for almost TWENTY FIVE YEARS. The starting salary is one thing, but retaining a winning QB is another. The salaries of QB's are among the highest on any team. They weren't looking for a quick fix, or to play QB roulette, they were looking for the future and face of the franchise, a future that would almost certainly end up costing a fortune in salary. Or is the suggestion here that the Steelers were banking on Ben being average as an 11th overall pick? On this board, I can never be sure any more....

To call it a reach IS a reach itself.

Gnutella
01-07-2010, 12:08 PM
I wonder if 2010 is a litmus test for Bruce Arians, considering it's the last year of his contract. If he doesn't do well next season, then he won't be offered a contract extension. I hope Mike Tomlin broke his foot off in Arians' ass when they had their big talk the other day.

WH
01-07-2010, 12:12 PM
This idea that Heinz Field's completion having largely to do with Ben Roethlisberger's contract gives me heartburn. In 2008, and now, Ben IS the franchise. Before Ben, and in the mid to late 90's (which i guess is our time period of argument since Heinz Field was discussed/being constructed in that time) why in god's name would you offer a QB for the Steelers a contract for even 40% of what Ben is making so he can hand the ball off to Jerome Bettis.

Pittsburgh didn't buy a franchise QB during the mid to late 90's early 2000's because they were investing the money in other players and coaches.

At the end of '07 what ''Face of the Franchise'' players did the Steelers have that were barely entering the prime of their career?

He was 4 years into his career and entering the next to last year in his contract. If the Steelers didn't throw an absurd amount of money at him, they knew that at the end of 2008 someone would whisper in his ear what they would offer him, and they sure as shit would have offered it to him in '09 especially after a 2nd friggin' Super Bowl. The Steelers would have found the money for Ben Heinz Field or no Heinz Field.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 12:47 PM
This idea that Heinz Field's completion having largely to do with Ben Roethlisberger's contract gives me heartburn. In 2008, and now, Ben IS the franchise. Before Ben, and in the mid to late 90's (which i guess is our time period of argument since Heinz Field was discussed/being constructed in that time) why in god's name would you offer a QB for the Steelers a contract for even 40% of what Ben is making so he can hand the ball off to Jerome Bettis.

Pittsburgh didn't buy a franchise QB during the mid to late 90's early 2000's because they were investing the money in other players and coaches.

At the end of '07 what ''Face of the Franchise'' players did the Steelers have that were barely entering the prime of their career?

He was 4 years into his career and entering the next to last year in his contract. If the Steelers didn't throw an absurd amount of money at him, they knew that at the end of 2008 someone would whisper in his ear what they would offer him, and they sure as shit would have offered it to him in '09 especially after a 2nd friggin' Super Bowl. The Steelers would have found the money for Ben Heinz Field or no Heinz Field.

If you believe Heinz Field had no impact on their ability to retain Ben, then let's tear it down and go back to playing in a stadium like TRS. Because I still stand by my assertion (and Dan Rooney's assertion) that they would not been able to do so at that price tag, at least not be able to do so and still be able to retain guys like Ward, Polamalu, Harrison, Hampton, Miller and, soon, Woodley and Holmes. You know, guys that have helped them win championships. Several of those guys would have had to go in order to keep Ben pre-Heinz, and regardless of the salary cap, because they wouldn't have been able to spend to the cap without losing a LOT of money. I mean, we HAD a "face of the franchise" player in Rod Woodson that the Steelers had to let go...why? Because they could not afford to pay him what he wanted. Why would that have been ANY different with Ben?

WH
01-07-2010, 01:15 PM
If you believe Heinz Field had no impact on their ability to retain Ben, then let's tear it down and go back to playing in a stadium like TRS. Never said ''no impact'', but Heinz Field's impact is nowhere near what you and rev are insinuating.

I mean, we HAD a "face of the franchise" player in Rod Woodson that the Steelers had to let go...why? Because they could not afford to pay him what he wanted. Why would that have been ANY different with Ben? He was entering his 11th year. He went to San Fran for a 5.1 Mil 3 year contract. He didn't put up ''face of the franchise'' numbers in 1996. He didn't even play in '95 Pittsburgh had no reason to keep him, and no crystal ball to tell them he would be great for 7 more seasons.

Same argument could be used for Joey Porter.

43Hitman
01-07-2010, 01:25 PM
They let Woodson go because they thought he was in decline. Just like they do with almost all of their aging players.

:Facepalm:

SteelMember
01-07-2010, 01:29 PM
X-T, I will agree with that last post, but you did include one qualifier in the statement...

If you believe Heinz Field had no impact on their ability to retain Ben

I just don't think it was the underlying reason that we drafted Ben, or any other QB for that matter. The Steelers generally play/played competitive football with the talent that their money can/could buy, putting themselves in the last 1/3 of the draft most of the time. For the most part, your not going to even sniff a talented franchise QB outside the top 10, or even 20. Yes, there's always exceptions like, dare I say Brady who was a late rounder, but that was a shot in the dark at the time. Of course you can go the other way and talk about busts like J. Russell, but I don't think there are too many teams willing to take the chance on not drafting the potential QB of the future... even if it is based on a lot of media hype in some cases.

Bottom line. Ben was there, and Cowher said he'd never get that close to the top again, so he pulled the trigger. Thank the lord.

fansince'76
01-07-2010, 01:44 PM
X-T, I will agree with that last post, but you did include one qualifier in the statement...



I just don't think it was the underlying reason that we drafted Ben, or any other QB for that matter. The Steelers generally play/played competitive football with the talent that their money can/could buy, putting themselves in the last 1/3 of the draft most of the time. For the most part, your not going to even sniff a talented franchise QB outside the top 10, or even 20. Yes, there's always exceptions like, dare I say Brady who was a late rounder, but that was a shot in the dark at the time. Of course you can go the other way and talk about busts like J. Russell, but I don't think there are too many teams willing to take the chance on not drafting the potential QB of the future... even if it is based on a lot of media hype in some cases.

Bottom line. Ben was there, and Cowher said he'd never get that close to the top again, so he pulled the trigger. Thank the lord.

Dare I say Joe Montana in the 3rd round in '79, but that was also a stroke of luck and being a perfect fit for an offensive system conceived and run by a gridiron genius.

Sharkissle29
01-07-2010, 01:47 PM
jimwexell twitter:

Just learned that Ben saved BA's job. "Completed a Hail Mary" is how it was put to me. Too much power for a player.

fansince'76
01-07-2010, 01:50 PM
jimwexell twitter:

Just learned that Ben saved BA's job. "Completed a Hail Mary" is how it was put to me. Too much power for a player.

Was it the same "source" he quoted yesterday saying Arians had been fired?

Sharkissle29
01-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Was it the same "source" he quoted yesterday saying Arians had been fired?

wexell is very reliable.

and from the sounds of it, it did seem like he was going to be fired and somehow got saved

Sharkissle29
01-07-2010, 01:52 PM
and if it is true, that is ridiculous that a player virtually has more power than the head coach.

WH
01-07-2010, 02:00 PM
I don't think Ben called Dan and said ''keep him, or else'' I bet you Ben had to say something like ''please with a cherry on top''

WH
01-07-2010, 02:02 PM
Was it the same "source" he quoted yesterday saying Arians had been fired?

To be fair, Wexell also admitted on his Twitter that he was getting conflicting stories from separate sources.

I do think, however, that it's not Jim Wexell's place to reveal that was told to him via f-ing Twitter. If it's true, and Ben told that to him in confidence, his trustability took a huge hit. If Ben told that to him, with the intention of having Wexell put it on Twitter, than shame on both of them.

SteelMember
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
and if it is true, that is ridiculous that a player virtually has more power than the head coach.

but just think, if Tomlin had come in a few years earlier, we'd still have Plexiglass.

Not a shot at Tomlin. Just showing that Ben's pleas seemingly carry more weight these days.

(insert weight jokes here.) :chuckle:

WH
01-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Bottom line. Ben was there, and Cowher said he'd never get that close to the top again, so he pulled the trigger. Thank the lord.
That day will stick in my head forever because I was (reluctantly) at a wedding in Stainland watching the draft with a Stainfan. I turned to him and said ''You're F'd''

WH
01-07-2010, 02:08 PM
but just think, if Tomlin had come in a few years earlier, we'd still have Plexiglass.



No way, Plex hated it in Pittsburgh and wanted to leave. He wasn't at risk of being fired.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 02:11 PM
X-T, I will agree with that last post, but you did include one qualifier in the statement...



I just don't think it was the underlying reason that we drafted Ben, or any other QB for that matter. The Steelers generally play/played competitive football with the talent that their money can/could buy, putting themselves in the last 1/3 of the draft most of the time. For the most part, your not going to even sniff a talented franchise QB outside the top 10, or even 20. Yes, there's always exceptions like, dare I say Brady who was a late rounder, but that was a shot in the dark at the time. Of course you can go the other way and talk about busts like J. Russell, but I don't think there are too many teams willing to take the chance on not drafting the potential QB of the future... even if it is based on a lot of media hype in some cases.

Bottom line. Ben was there, and Cowher said he'd never get that close to the top again, so he pulled the trigger. Thank the lord.

Yeah, but the Steelers would have been much more hesitant and IMO would not have drafted Ben if they were playing at TRS, which I said earlier, knowing that they would eventually have to likely pay him over $100 million on a second contract AND having to retain the quality players I mentioned in another post (Troy, Hines, Deebo, Heath, among others). The building just didn't produce enough revenue that would have allowed them to spend to a $100+ million salary cap, whereas Heinz obviously does. If Dan Rooney thought otherwise, why would he have asked for the new stadium in the first place? That was his entire rationale behind asking for it.

SteelMember
01-07-2010, 02:15 PM
No way, Plex hated it in Pittsburgh and wanted to leave. He wasn't at risk of being fired.

Just pointing out Ben's public outcry to keep him.

The quote, "Ben likes big receivers"... :tap:

It's not a new idea. :hunch:

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 02:15 PM
BTW, if it's true that Ben saved Arians' job, I guess The Nation will turn on him now.

plenewken
01-07-2010, 02:18 PM
Salary cap or not, the Rooney's SOLE interest is football. The game was changing, and so were the sources of revenue. The team IS allowed to make a profit, and they could also LOSE money.

The bottom line remains: No new stadium, no 100 million contracts.

I thought this was common knowledge...guess not.

Of course, the more $$$ the better for the franchise but if increased revenue was the only reason for the Rooneys to ask for a new stadium (which we taxpayers paid, by the way) I wonder why they didn't design a larger stadium in the first place (75,000-80,000 seats plus corporate boxes). It amazes me that Pittsburgh has arguably the largest number of fans nationwide and yet, HF is one of the smallest stadiums in the League. Considering the number of fans on the season ticket waiting list (me included), I think capacity could have been greater, which would have generated more revenue.

How many more Lombardis are we gonna need to upgrade HF to 75,000-80,000 seats? There's room for easy upgrade, it's not like we have to tear it down and rebuild a new one.

xbroughneck
01-07-2010, 02:18 PM
BTW, if it's true that Ben saved Arians' job, I guess The Nation will turn on him now.

I would turn on Tomlin for allowing it before I'd turn on Ben. Look, I expect Ben to like Arians. Arians is good for Ben's career.

I expect Tomlin to think TEAM first.
I expect the Rooneys to think FANS + TEAM because it's a business.

If Ben spoke up for Arians, well...I guess that says something good about their relationship.

Won't change my opinion of Arians offense (which I don't like) and it won't stop me from rooting for the Steelers.

SteelMember
01-07-2010, 02:27 PM
Yeah, but the Steelers would have been much more hesitant and IMO would not have drafted Ben if they were playing at TRS, which I said earlier, knowing that they would eventually have to likely pay him over $100 million on a second contract AND having to retain the quality players I mentioned in another post (Troy, Hines, Deebo, Heath, among others). The building just didn't produce enough revenue that would have allowed them to spend to a $100+ million salary cap, whereas Heinz obviously does. If Dan Rooney thought otherwise, why would he have asked for the new stadium in the first place? That was his entire rationale behind asking for it.

Listen, I think we are on somewhat the same page here.

The Pens were in virtually the same position.

43Hitman
01-07-2010, 02:28 PM
BTW, if it's true that Ben saved Arians' job, I guess The Nation will turn on him now.

Nah, if it's true I will be skeptical of Tomlin's testicular fortitude. We all know that Ben has loved BA and would go to battle for him. But it's up to MT and DR to look past feeling and towards what is best for the team, not one player.

WH
01-07-2010, 02:31 PM
Yeah, but the Steelers would have been much more hesitant and IMO would not have drafted Ben if they were playing at TRS, which I said earlier, knowing that they would eventually have to likely pay him over $100 million on a second contract AND having to retain the quality players I mentioned in another post (Troy, Hines, Deebo, Heath, among others). The building just didn't produce enough revenue that would have allowed them to spend to a $100+ million salary cap, whereas Heinz obviously does. If Dan Rooney thought otherwise, why would he have asked for the new stadium in the first place? That was his entire rationale behind asking for it.

I will yield to you're point about Heinz Field making it possible.

Link:
http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/20010824hluxury0824P1.asp

Wish that article would have been around a few pages ago, would have saved alot of time.


Any article I read though makes me more disgusted with the Pirates getting PNC Park. Least. Deserved. New. Stadium. Ever.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
Of course, the more $$$ the better for the franchise but if increased revenue was the only reason for the Rooneys to ask for a new stadium (which we taxpayers paid, by the way) I wonder why they didn't design a larger stadium in the first place (75,000-80,000 seats plus corporate boxes). It amazes me that Pittsburgh has arguably the largest number of fans nationwide and yet, HF is one of the smallest stadiums in the League. Considering the number of fans on the season ticket waiting list (me included), I think capacity could have been greater, which would have generated more revenue.

How many more Lombardis are we gonna need to upgrade HF to 75,000-80,000 seats? There's room for easy upgrade, it's not like we have to tear it down and rebuild a new one.

No it wouldn't have. The Steelers make a lot of money off ticket sales, sure, but the luxury suites are where the real money is, because that is revenue that they do not have to share with the league. Why do you think every team wanted/wants them? Look at how much money the Pens will be bringing in from the luxury suites at Consol Energy Center? That money is what allowed them to spend to the cap while still playing at Mellon Arena, even though they will be operating at a loss. They will make it up after the new arena opens. Mario Lemieux himself has said this. As for the Steelers, another reason for Heinz being that size was to keep the costs down as much as possible. It was hard enough trying to sell the people on a $228 million stadium. It would have been impossible if he asked for a $350 million stadium, which is what it would have cost for an 80,000 seat stadium at that time.

I would turn on Tomlin for allowing it before I'd turn on Ben. Look, I expect Ben to like Arians. Arians is good for Ben's career.

I expect Tomlin to think TEAM first.
I expect the Rooneys to think FANS + TEAM because it's a business.

If Ben spoke up for Arians, well...I guess that says something good about their relationship.

Won't change my opinion of Arians offense (which I don't like) and it won't stop me from rooting for the Steelers.

Not with the degree of hatred most of The Nation has for BA. A lot of that hatred will be directed at Ben, guaranteed...especially if he does not repeat his success from this season.

Listen, I think we are on somewhat the same page here.

The Pens were in virtually the same position.

Exactly, and I explained why a bit previously. The Pens would have left town without a new arena, plain and simple. Mellon Arena makes absolutely no money for the team, and even with a cap, you need that extra money from a new building to survive as well as keep your home-grown talent.

Nah, if it's true I will be skeptical of Tomlin's testicular fortitude. We all know that Ben has loved BA and would go to battle for him. But it's up to MT and DR to look past feeling and towards what is best for the team, not one player.

But Ben is the franchise...his voice carries a lot of weight. You have to keep these guys happy, otherwise it could be a detriment to the rest of the team (not saying Ben would be disruptive, but I hope you see my point). Not only does Ben like BA, I think he wants to keep the continuity, and that can't be understated.

I will yield to you're point about Heinz Field making it possible.

Link:
http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/20010824hluxury0824P1.asp

Wish that article would have been around a few pages ago, would have saved alot of time.


Any article I read though makes me more disgusted with the Pirates getting PNC Park. Least. Deserved. New. Stadium. Ever.

Now THAT I agree with. They of course went on the same premise that Dan Rooney did when he asked for Heinz Field. We're still waiting for them to make good on their promises.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 02:52 PM
It's no accident that Heinz field is the size it is....supply, and demand. Economics 101....scarce supply for something already in high demand = increased demand. Pittsburgh is still considered a smaller market. The stadium fits the town.

I have a question. Why does every Goddamned issue on this board have to revert into a mudslinging match? So some of the kids didn't understand or had never put much thought into the REAL reasons for the new stadium....um, okay........but why does anyone who knows this (and knew this) have to get ripped to shreds by people simply because they knew something before-hand? And what point is served by belaboring the point? The Rooney's needed a stadium so they could stay profitable and pay players. That's a fact. WTF are we arguing for?

Has it devolved to the point where people are such sore-asses that they won't accept ANYTHING, even facts, from certain other posters simply because they don't like the source?

You know, Sweed is a bust. He is! Maybe he makes some kind of miracle comeback in a year or two, but that is HIGHLY unlikely. But why do I have to get ripped up for saying so? Arians has been retained 3 years in a row now. A bunch of his detractors were absolutely POSITIVE he'd be shitcanned last year. He, of course, was not. The offensive numbers were pretty solid this year. Why is it MY fault that the Steelers stopped, thought, and ONCE AGAIN kept this coach?

Vincent
01-07-2010, 02:54 PM
BTW, if it's true that Ben saved Arians' job, I guess The Nation will turn on him now.

If I were codependent, I'd do as Ben does. Nobody hates Ben. The nation has turned on BA.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 03:12 PM
If I were codependent, I'd do as Ben does. Nobody hates Ben. The nation has turned on BA.


But the FO hasn't.........and, at the end of the day, no matter HOW much whining and crying and cussing and foot-stomping the fans do, that's ALL that matters.

Vincent
01-07-2010, 03:25 PM
But the FO hasn't.........and, at the end of the day, no matter HOW much whining and crying and cussing and foot-stomping the fans do, that's ALL that matters.

I'll leave the whining, crying, cussing and foot-stomping to the kids. Snide comments, brilliant sarcasm, non sequitur lapses and double entendre have gotten me where I am today.

WH
01-07-2010, 03:31 PM
Has it devolved to the point where people are such sore-asses that they won't accept ANYTHING, even facts, from certain other posters simply because they don't like the source?
It's all in how the person posts the information.



You know, Sweed is a bust. He is! Maybe he makes some kind of miracle comeback in a year or two, but that is HIGHLY unlikely. But why do I have to get ripped up for saying so? I thought that thread was closed......

Fire Haley
01-07-2010, 03:45 PM
Ben still has the swolled head?

WH
01-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Now THAT I agree with. They of course went on the same premise that Dan Rooney did when he asked for Heinz Field. We're still waiting for them to make good on their promises.

That team will end before they do and PNC Park will be nothing more than a giant Fireworks viewing area.

43Hitman
01-07-2010, 04:38 PM
But Ben is the franchise...his voice carries a lot of weight. You have to keep these guys happy, otherwise it could be a detriment to the rest of the team (not saying Ben would be disruptive, but I hope you see my point). Not only does Ben like BA, I think he wants to keep the continuity, and that can't be understated.

Ben is not bigger than the team. No matter how good he is.

BlastFurnace
01-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Ben is not bigger than the team. No matter how good he is.

Agree 100%

ricardisimo
01-07-2010, 05:23 PM
I have a question. Why does every Goddamned issue on this board have to revert into a mudslinging match?

:confused:

I'm really not sure what to do or say at this point. There were some things in this life which served as a sort of "true North" for me, that anchored my reality and permitted me to navigate this life with a minimum of collisions. Revs being cognizant of the purpose of the "mudslinging" on these boards, and his prominent - nay, preeminent - role in said mudslinging was just such a terra firma for me.

Now I'm going to have to go throw up in a corner. Everything's dizzyingly out of focus.

:dizzy: :puke:

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 05:49 PM
FAIL

the Chief (that would be Art Rooney to you) wanted to draft dan marino.

thats just one.

i guess they would call any random guru's any time there was a disagreement?

here is another case of the steelers letting the coaches do their thing and not imposing their will (although it goes back beyond 30 years i thought this was pretty common and basic knowledge amongst steeler gurus of typical "steeler way")-

Rooney clearly boss, but tradition to leave coach be. Art Sr. to frantic son TIm before cutting Unitas: "Let the coaches coach."

i love how those who claim to never question the front office are now questioning the 'rooney way' that dates back 75+ years.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 05:53 PM
:confused:

I'm really not sure what to do or say at this point. There were some things in this life which served as a sort of "true North" for me, that anchored my reality and permitted me to navigate this life with a minimum of collisions. Revs being cognizant of the purpose of the "mudslinging" on these boards, and his prominent - nay, preeminent - role in said mudslinging was just such a terra firma for me.

Now I'm going to have to go throw up in a corner. Everything's dizzyingly out of focus.

:dizzy: :puke:

I've been on this board a LONG time, skippy....it didn't always used to be this way, and I didn't always feel the need to be so abrasive to get the obvious salient point across...

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 07:29 PM
Ben is not bigger than the team. No matter how good he is.

But that's not what I said...I said his voice carries a lot of weight because he is the franchise player. That doesn't mean he is bigger than the team - far from that. It's not any different for any other franchise player - Peyton Manning's opinion matters with the Colts; Marsha Brady's with the Pats*, etc.

HometownGal
01-07-2010, 08:44 PM
But it's up to MT and DR to look past feeling and towards what is best for the team, not one player.

Exactly. And that is precisely what they did. :drink:

Wexell and Laird can share the yolk. . .

http://newworldodor.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/egg-on-face1.jpg


P.S. Randy - can you please cease with the "brain trust" comments? I don't agree with most regarding their opinions on Arians and though I believe the majority are simply looking for someone to pin this season's downfalls on (God forbid the Steelers D and/or Lebeau be at fault), their opinions should still be respected whether we agree with them or not. :drink:

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 08:58 PM
:confused: im still confused how wexell has egg on his face. :noidea: maybe i am missing something really important. can someone please provide a link to what he did or said that was wrong? its not like he gave a false report like laird or pristua. or did he?

again... any links would be appreciated.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Exactly. And that is precisely what they did. :drink:

Wexell and Laird can share the yolk. . .

http://newworldodor.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/egg-on-face1.jpg


P.S. Randy - can you please cease with the "brain trust" comments? I don't agree with most regarding their opinions on Arians and though I believe the majority are simply looking for someone to pin this season's downfalls on (God forbid the Steelers D and/or Lebeau be at fault), their opinions should still be respected whether we agree with them or not. :drink:

OK...I'll stop. Anyway, they've earned the moniker whether it's expressed overtly or not.

Isn't it interesting that Wexell reported that the Rooney's wanted a new OC, and a day later, the Rooney's retained.......um.............their same OC that they already promoted once and retained once before? But somehow some people (Formerly known as the _________) seem to think that Wexell was right....that the Rooney's want their OC fired, yet did not fire him because....................ahhhhhhhhh......I really don't know. Wexell was right, but he was wrong, but he was still right being wrong because he knows more than message board posters who actually predicted things more accurately than he did?

It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO confusing watching people who are wrong calling people who were right wrong.....and being told that we have to respect the people who are mad at the ones who were right and are calling THEM wrong even though those are the people who were originally wrong and are still wrong.

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 10:24 PM
:blah:

"Let the coaches coach."


- art rooney sr. AKA the chief

dont act like you know if you cant understand the simplest fundamentals of "the steelers way".

their way > your opinion.

'nuff said. (i guess you now know more than even them though, huh?)

:screwy:

WH
01-08-2010, 03:32 AM
OK...I'll stop.

It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO confusing watching people who are wrong calling people who were right wrong.....and being told that we have to respect the people who are mad at the ones who were right and are calling THEM wrong even though those are the people who were originally wrong and are still wrong.
Before you were such a bitter Brenda....did you ever post links to reliable news sources or other outlets to back up what you say to be fact? Or did you always excpect people to take your word as gospel just because you say you know more than them?

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 04:24 AM
I've been on this board a LONG time, skippy....it didn't always used to be this way, and I didn't always feel the need to be so abrasive to get the obvious salient point across...

You tell 'em, Pops. These young whippersnappers today have no clue what life used to be like on the Steelersfever forums back in the Old Days, before all of these fancy "keyboards" and "monitors". Progress? Balderdash! That's what I say. We used to have to log on to these boards with an actual board... a switchboard... and we were grateful, weren't we revs?

Here's revs scolding the Brain Trust back during the Big One:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1162/revsoldschool.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/i/revsoldschool.jpg/)

[Editor's note: he didn't call us the "Braintrust" back then, but rather the "Bitchin' Cabinet", his witty reference to FDR's commie accomplices back in Washington].

HometownGal
01-08-2010, 05:01 AM
:confused: im still confused how wexell has egg on his face. :noidea: maybe i am missing something really important. can someone please provide a link to what he did or said that was wrong? its not like he gave a false report like laird or pristua. or did he?

again... any links would be appreciated.

revs just answered your question above. Just because Wexell tweeted that the Rooneys wanted to fire BA and Tomlin didn't doesn't make it so. All of you were 100% certain that BA was getting the heave ho simply because Laird said so and we found out that wasn't the truth and at some point, we'll probably learn that Wexell was way off base as well. Thank God the Rooneys don't read this board (and who really knows if they do?) as I'm sure they'd have a good laugh about how gullible (most of) their fans are. :wink02::chuckle:

stillers4me
01-08-2010, 05:09 AM
Apparently, Arians job was in jeapordy so I guess the majority of fans were not off base at all.

HometownGal
01-08-2010, 05:16 AM
Apparently, Arians job was in jeapordy so I guess the majority of fans were not off base at all.

That was simply another rumor, Sue, and we all know what became of the most recent rumor regarding BA. There has been nothing reported by the Steelers FO that they wanted BA fired. I don't put any credence in a tweet from a talking head.

The majority of fans were completely off base. You all were certain - almost guaranteeing - BA's firing and it didn't happen. Now you are all trying to play detective, along with these yapping heads, to try to put a spin on why BA was retained. Did you ever think it might be because the Steelers get it that his O wasn't the root of the Steelers downfalls this season? :banging:

stillers4me
01-08-2010, 05:33 AM
That was simply another rumor, Sue, and we all know what became of the most recent rumor regarding BA. There has been nothing reported by the Steelers FO that they wanted BA fired. I don't put any credence in a tweet from a talking head.

The majority of fans were completely off base. You all were certain - almost guaranteeing - BA's firing and it didn't happen. Now you are all trying to play detective, along with these yapping heads, to try to put a spin on why BA was retained. Did you ever think it might be because the Steelers get it that his O wasn't the root of the Steelers downfalls this season? :banging:

Where there's smoke there's fire.....Arians' job was in jeopardy and every one knows it. Earlier in the week, Tomlin said that the rumors were "premature" He in no way insinuated that Arians job was safe and that the rumors were false. They just hadn't made the final decision yet.

Yes, the were problems with the D. But don't tell me you weren't banging your head every freaking time we were in the red zone. We were what.....28th in the league in red zone efficiency? And third down conversions? Gimmee a break. You all keep ignoring these facts when you defend Arians. "It's the defense, it's the defense!" We should have been able to score enough points to win despite our defensive woes, (we certainly blew enough chances). Just like the defense bailed our ass out last year despite our offensive woes. And what the heck did we waste a first round draft pick on a RB for? Obviously, not to use him to run the clock down so that the other team doesn't get the chance to get on the field and drive up the score on a crippled defense. And where was Mewlwde Moore this year. The man who pracitally singlehandedly saved our season last year was the forgotten one this year. "Ariensball" has been going on for three years and the vast majority of fans have been screaming for 3 years. I don't give a rat's ass that Ben got 4000 yards...it didn't get us anywhere, especuially in the endzone. It got us down the field, but once we got to the 20, nuthin. ....as a matter of fact, based on some dismal performances in more than one game, it's pathetic that we have those kind of stats and still fell short of the mark. The D was hurting this year.....that's the first clue to use your offensive weapons to their fullest.

When the US military got the stealth bomber, you didn't see them scrap the f16 and every other weapon in their arsenal. That's exactly what Arians did when he got ahold of Ben. Our QB is a unique and deadly weapon. But for heaven's sake, use him wisely and selectively. Arians got lucky with another chance.........let's see what he does with it.

zulater
01-08-2010, 06:53 AM
Where there's smoke there's fire.....Arians' job was in jeopardy and every one knows it. Earlier in the week, Tomlin said that the rumors were "premature" He in no way insinuated that Arians job was safe and that the rumors were false. They just hadn't made the final decision yet.

Most of us know it, but some are in denial or just unwilling to see the forest through the trees for reasons we can only speculate on. There was certainly some uncertainty and division within the orginization concerning Bruce. I think it's almost certain that Bruce's retention of his job was contingent upon him making certain concessions on how he would run the offense going foward.

Yes, the were problems with the D. But don't tell me you weren't banging your head every freaking time we were in the red zone. We were what.....28th in the league in red zone efficiency? And third down conversions? Gimmee a break. You all keep ignoring these facts when you defend Arians. "It's the defense, it's the defense!" We should have been able to score enough points to win despite our defensive woes, (we certainly blew enough chances). Just like the defense bailed our ass out last year despite our offensive woes. And what the heck did we waste a first round draft pick on a RB for? Obviously, not to use him to run the clock down so that the other team doesn't get the chance to get on the field and drive up the score on a crippled defense. And where was Mewlwde Moore this year. The man who pracitally singlehandedly saved our season last year was the forgotten one this year. "Ariensball" has been going on for three years and the vast majority of fans have been screaming for 3 years. I don't give a rat's ass that Ben got 4000 yards...it didn't get us anywhere, especuially in the endzone. It got us down the field, but once we got to the 20, nuthin. ....as a matter of fact, based on some dismal performances in more than one game, it's pathetic that we have those kind of stats and still fell short of the mark. The D was hurting this year.....that's the first clue to use your offensive weapons to their fullest.

You hit on some great points. First to the injuries. The loss of Troy and Aaron Smith would be the offensive equivilent of losing Ben and Heath Miller. Could you imagine what this offense would have looked like if those two had missed the same amount of playing time as Troy and Aaron did? Yikes!

Now I want to add one other thing. Another reason Arians should have been held to a higher level of performance than LeBeau this year is look where the Steelers have been investing their premium draft picks lately. 2004-2008 in four of those five seasons the Steelers used their first round pick on an offensive choice, all four of those choices were big time hits. The one time they used the pick on defense in that span the player has proved to be marginal to date. ( though still devoloping) Let me put it another way. Through the draft in the past 6 years the Steelers have added an elite qb ( Ben), a stud TE ( Heath), a top playmaking WR ( Tone) and an ascending RB ( Rashard). that's 3 elite players and one that was pretty close at Arains disposal for this past season.

For LeBeau, in the past 6 years through the draft he's only had one elite player added to his arsenal. ( Woodley of course) Meanwhile the only player of value that's been added to the secondary through the draft in that time was allowed to fly the coop via free agency before this past season began.

So when you stand back and look at where the high end talent was concentrated on the roster this past season it would only make sense to have expectations for the offense to shoulder a larger proportion of the load than the defense.

When the US military got the stealth bomber, you didn't see them scrap the f16 and every other weapon in their arsenal. That's exactly what Arians did when he got ahold of Ben. Our QB is a unique and deadly weapon. But for heaven's sake, use him wisely and selectively. Arians got lucky with another chance.........let's see what he does with it.

Well said, and great post! :tt02:

steelax04
01-08-2010, 08:15 AM
Where there's smoke there's fire.....Arians' job was in jeopardy and every one knows it. Earlier in the week, Tomlin said that the rumors were "premature" He in no way insinuated that Arians job was safe and that the rumors were false. They just hadn't made the final decision yet.

So since he didn't insinuate that Arians' job was safe, that meant it was in jeopardy? How about since he didn't insinuate that Arians' job was in trouble, it meant he was safe? You can twist that around any way you want to "prove" whatever your stance is. To me, the only smoke that was out there was from the fire of messageboards, fans, and reporters. Until someone can post some links stating otherwise from direct Steelers sources, I will think that the organization was going through due-diligence on all staff.

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Before you were such a bitter Brenda....did you ever post links to reliable news sources or other outlets to back up what you say to be fact? Or did you always excpect people to take your word as gospel just because you say you know more than them?

Read and learn, whiny....

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=752891#post752891

Also, BA's job being on the line was almost certainly overstated by the myriad people who WANT him gone. Was his job in jeopardy? Perhaps...but so was probably just about every other coach on the Steelers after the hugely disappointing season. The FO carefully reviewed their options, and retained him. He was on the hotseat (supposedly) last year, too, so how can people KEEP on thinking that the Rooney's "just made a mistake" this year in keeping him?

I mean, what evidence do we have here? A Wexell tweet, a couple unsubstantiated rumors, a SINGLE radio dude trying to get himself some attention, and an army of BA haters who so desperately wanted him fired that they were willing to believe anything that furthered their misguided cause.

You were all wrong. Why can't you just admit that and move on? Screaming and kicking and complaining isn't going to change a thing...

Rockonsteel
01-08-2010, 09:36 AM
Read and learn, whiny....

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=752891#post752891

Also, BA's job being on the line was almost certainly overstated by the myriad people who WANT him gone. Was his job in jeopardy? Perhaps...but so was probably just about every other coach on the Steelers after the hugely disappointing season. The FO carefully reviewed their options, and retained him. He was on the hotseat (supposedly) last year, too, so how can people KEEP on thinking that the Rooney's "just made a mistake" this year in keeping him?

I mean, what evidence do we have here? A Wexell tweet, a couple unsubstantiated rumors, a SINGLE radio dude trying to get himself some attention, and an army of BA haters who so desperately wanted him fired that they were willing to believe anything that furthered their misguided cause.

You were all wrong. Why can't you just admit that and move on? Screaming and kicking and complaining isn't going to change a thing...


We will see next season who is wrong in all this. If we're still discussing the same issues of overinflated, empty stats, underachieving redzone trips and horrible short yardage and bad situational football, I dare say the Steelers FO, MT and all of you Arians lovers will be the ones who will have been proven to be wrong. There is still the possiblilty that they are making a colossal mistake here. We'll see. Right now, all we see, is that somebody didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on a move that many, including some within the organization, see as quite obvious.


You people that wanted him to stay have gotten your wish. You asked for it, you got it. All I'll say is be careful what you wish for.


Rockon

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 09:42 AM
We will see next season who is wrong in all this. If we're still discussing the same issues of overinflated, empty stats, underachieving redzone trips and horrible short yardage and bad situational football, I dare say the Steelers FO, MT and all of you Arians lovers will be the ones who will have been proven to be wrong. There is still the possiblilty that they are making a colossal mistake here. We'll see. Right now, all we see, is that somebody didn't have the balls to pull the trigger on a move that many, including some within the organization, see as quite obvious.


You people that wanted him to stay have gotten your wish. You asked for it, you got it. All I'll say is be careful what you wish for.


Rockon


Here's the fundamental flaw with this post: It's EXACTLY the same crap that we heard LAST YEAR from Arians detractors. All of 2008 we kept hearing how he was going to be shitcanned and we would all see for ourselves after the season was over and............................................... .whif! Nothing.

Fast forward one year and it's the same crap. All year we were told he'd be gone, and he's not. You haters were all wrong....AGAIN!

Either you truly think you know more than the FO, or you think that the FO wants the Steelers to fail, because they've retained this guy year after year....

Rockonsteel
01-08-2010, 10:22 AM
Here's the fundamental flaw with this post: It's EXACTLY the same crap that we heard LAST YEAR from Arians detractors. All of 2008 we kept hearing how he was going to be shitcanned and we would all see for ourselves after the season was over and............................................... .whif! Nothing.

Fast forward one year and it's the same crap. All year we were told he'd be gone, and he's not. You haters were all wrong....AGAIN!

Either you truly think you know more than the FO, or you think that the FO wants the Steelers to fail, because they've retained this guy year after year....

I think the FO is wrong on Bruce Arians. Period. It's that simple. I don't pretend to know more than the FO, but I do a know a little bit about football, and I'm not blind. I know that 3rd and 1 in the 5 wide shotgun in 15 degree weather with 40 mph hours, is not smart football. I know that no matter how many empty yards they put up, if they don't result in TDs rather than FGs and TOs, they're going to struggle to win again next year. I know this offense has enough talent to do it. I'm not so sure about the philosophy and gameplan. If you think the Steelers FO is incapable of making mistakes, then we are really having a debate the will just keep encircling itself. If you allow for the possibility, that they are not perfect and capable of mistakes, then why is it so inconceivable to some of you that, that may be the case here?


I'm not predicting whether or not he'll be fired at the end of the upcoming season. We've seen that they don't have the balls for that. I'm saying that if he continues to operate the way he has, this offense will continue suffer in the critical areas that matter most, like redzone and 3rd down conversions(in particular 3rd and short) and closing out games in the 4th quarter with the run game(4minute offense).

And, regardless of what you or anybody else says, the talent on this offense makes Bruce look good(relative term), not the other way around.


Rockon

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 10:30 AM
Thank you....at least YOU have the balls to come right out and state that you think the FO is repeating the same mistakes year after year.

Just to keep the record straight, Arians has been the OC for the 2007, '08, and '09 seasons. So the Rooney's made the initial mistake of promoting him, and then added to that mistake by retaining him in '08, '09 and now '10.

So that's 4 mistakes in row, right?

plenewken
01-08-2010, 10:39 AM
Here's the fundamental flaw with this post: It's EXACTLY the same crap that we heard LAST YEAR from Arians detractors. All of 2008 we kept hearing how he was going to be shitcanned and we would all see for ourselves after the season was over and............................................... .whif! Nothing.

Fast forward one year and it's the same crap. All year we were told he'd be gone, and he's not. You haters were all wrong....AGAIN!

Either you truly think you know more than the FO, or you think that the FO wants the Steelers to fail, because they've retained this guy year after year....

I don't really care if firing Arians was considered or not by the FO (I have all the reasons to believe it was) but I will tell you this. There better be a significant change in offensive strategy and play calling in 2010 and the Steelers better make the playoffs next year because if the same record yardage and inability to score in the red zone happens again, and if the players go home after the first week of January, Arians will be gone for sure (end of contract anyway) and MT might even get the ax. There's much more money invested by the Rooneys in the offense than in the defense and the ownership will not settle for mediocrity on the offensive side of the ball.

The defense had big problems also but they're not of the same nature, that's why Lebeau got a pass.

The offense had top weaponry that Steelers brass (Arians and ultimately Tomlin) didn't know how to deploy and use properly.

It can't happen 2 years in a row and I hope it doesn't.

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 10:45 AM
Arains has been the OC since the 2007 season.
07
08
09
...and now '10. That'll be 4 seasons....so I guess the Rooney's are REALLY stupid, eh?

4xSBChamps
01-08-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't pretend to know more than the FO, but I do a know a little bit about football, and I'm not blind. I know that 3rd and 1 in the 5 wide shotgun in 15 degree weather with 40 mph hours, is not smart football.

+ tax... sooner-or-later, football becomes a game of knocking the man across from you backwards and taking a few feet of turf, or stopping your opponent from doing the same to you:
you might be capable of fooling your opponent some of the time, but too-many of today's OC seem intent on out-thinking common-sense & logic, trying to 'out-scheme' each-other with finely-crafted passing plays on paper... but football is played on uneven turf in adverse conditions

Any organization that doesn't understand these basic facts is in serious trouble, and I sincerely hope this is-not the case with 'em Stillers

:helmet:

plenewken
01-08-2010, 11:12 AM
.............. so I guess the Rooney's are REALLY stupid, eh?

Please spare me your straw man arguments.

Let me repeat what I said and tell me if you agree or not, nothing else.

"There better be a significant change in offensive strategy and play calling in 2010 and the Steelers better make the playoffs next year because if the same record yardage and inability to score in the red zone happens again, and if the players go home after the first week of January, Arians will be gone for sure (end of contract anyway) and MT might even get the ax."

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 11:30 AM
Please spare me your straw man arguments.

Let me repeat what I said and tell me if you agree or not, nothing else.

"There better be a significant change in offensive strategy and play calling in 2010 and the Steelers better make the playoffs next year because if the same record yardage and inability to score in the red zone happens again, and if the players go home after the first week of January, Arians will be gone for sure (end of contract anyway) and MT might even get the ax."

Or..............what? You'll cry harder next year?

I'm sure the Rooney's are hanging on your every word.:rofl:

To answer your question, no, I don't agree with you. There needs to be better blocking up front and better execution from the offense in general, specifically in the redzone.

WH
01-08-2010, 01:02 PM
Read and learn, whiny....

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=752891#post752891



Wow, a post you made without making a snarky remark to anyone in the beginning middle or end. Consider me schooled.:applaudit::applaudit:

Prok
01-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I see this turned into a huge debate here..... Bottom line for me is that while the D and ST's unit sucked hard, this OFFENSE could have carried this team further than it did. And with a competent play-caller it would have. That's strictly my opinion and it won't change.

Bruce's ego was too big to let Ben run the no-huddle more too IMO.

Prok
01-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Thank you....at least YOU have the balls to come right out and state that you think the FO is repeating the same mistakes year after year.

Just to keep the record straight, Arians has been the OC for the 2007, '08, and '09 seasons. So the Rooney's made the initial mistake of promoting him, and then added to that mistake by retaining him in '08, '09 and now '10.

So that's 4 mistakes in row, right?

I would agree with that. No organization is perfect. IMO they made mistake EVERY year they retained BA as OC. And I am a huge fan of passing the ball. BA has even soured me with his stupid play-calling.

zulater
01-08-2010, 06:08 PM
Thank you....at least YOU have the balls to come right out and state that you think the FO is repeating the same mistakes year after year.

Just to keep the record straight, Arians has been the OC for the 2007, '08, and '09 seasons. So the Rooney's made the initial mistake of promoting him, and then added to that mistake by retaining him in '08, '09 and now '10.

So that's 4 mistakes in row, right?

The Rooney's didn't promote Arians, nor did they ever hire him. Cowher hired him, and Tomlin chose to retain and promote him. And the Rooneys wont fire him either, they'll leave that decision entirely up to Tomlin, even if they're not thrilled with him. That's the way it works in that orginization, and for that we should all be thankfull, even when it doesn't work to our favor in the short term. Because in the long term ownership not dictating the make-up of the coaching staff is one of the things that seperates the Rooney's from the Snyders, Jones' and Davis' of the world.

As you're well aware I'm not an Arians fan, but I respect the Steelers way and I'm ready to turn the page and accept the fact that he's the OC for the 2010 season and hope for the best. :tt04:

But that doesn't mean I'm willing to concede that Arains wasn't a big part of the problem last season.

And I also wont concede that various Steelers beat writers and reporters just made all this stuff up. Wexall in particuliar. As I said before he's got a weekly column in Steelers Digest for which the Steelers orginization has editorial control of content. You can bet that if Wexall did in fact fabricate the Rooney's feelings towards Arians he'll(Wexall) be out before the next issue is published. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on that front. :noidea:

I don't know what happened ( nor do you) but i suspect the Steelers switched course midstream for reasons known best to themselves, and as a result all these reporters were left dangling.

stillers4me
01-08-2010, 06:28 PM
....so I guess the Rooney's are REALLY stupid, eh?

But you notice they weren't stupid enough to offer him a contract extension, since this is the last year of his contract.

43Hitman
01-08-2010, 06:47 PM
But you notice they weren't stupid enough to offer him a contract extension, since this is the last year of his contract.

two words come to mind: lame duck.

Rockonsteel
01-08-2010, 09:51 PM
The Rooney's didn't promote Arians, nor did they ever hire him. Cowher hired him, and Tomlin chose to retain and promote him. And the Rooneys wont fire him either, they'll leave that decision entirely up to Tomlin, even if they're not thrilled with him. That's the way it works in that orginization, and for that we should all be thankfull, even when it doesn't work to our favor in the short term. Because in the long term ownership not dictating the make-up of the coaching staff is one of the things that seperates the Rooney's from the Snyders, Jones' and Davis' of the world.

As you're well aware I'm not an Arians fan, but I respect the Steelers way and I'm ready to turn the page and accept the fact that he's the OC for the 2010 season and hope for the best. :tt04:

But that doesn't mean I'm willing to concede that Arains wasn't a big part of the problem last season.

And I also wont concede that various Steelers beat writers and reporters just made all this stuff up. Wexall in particuliar. As I said before he's got a weekly column in Steelers Digest for which the Steelers orginization has editorial control of content. You can bet that if Wexall did in fact fabricate the Rooney's feelings towards Arians he'll(Wexall) be out before the next issue is published. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on that front. :noidea:

I don't know what happened ( nor do you) but i suspect the Steelers switched course midstream for reasons known best to themselves, and as a result all these reporters were left dangling.


Allegedly when he hired Arians, Cowher talked the Rooneys into putting a clause in Arians contract that he would be elevated to OC if Whiz and Grim ever left. He was forced on Tomlin. And onw Tomlin's forcing him on us. Gives me ajada.


Rockon

HometownGal
01-09-2010, 04:36 AM
Allegedly when he hired Arians, Cowher talked the Rooneys into putting a clause in Arians contract that he would be elevated to OC if Whiz and Grim ever left. He was forced on Tomlin. And onw Tomlin's forcing him on us. Gives me ajada.


Rockon

Link please?

I don't feel Tomlin is forcing BA on anyone. He obviously is pleased with his job performance for the most part and so am I. :applaudit:

zulater
01-09-2010, 06:27 AM
Link please?

I don't feel Tomlin is forcing BA on anyone. He obviously is pleased with his job performance for the most part and so am I. :applaudit:

That might be obvious to you, but it's certainly not obvious to the rest of us. :noidea: Obviously there's some level of confidence going foward that Tomlin thinks Bruce can get things turned around the way he needs him to. But there's way too much smoke coming from way too many different directions to believe that there hasn't been some sort of internal discord concerning Bruce. There's probably about 100 adjectives that would come to Tomlin's mind before "pleased" when it comes to accessing Arains job performance for this just completed season. :chuckle:

Texasteel
01-09-2010, 07:49 AM
That might be obvious to you, but it's certainly not obvious to the rest of us. :noidea: Obviously there's some level of confidence going foward that Tomlin thinks Bruce can get things turned around the way he needs him to. But there's way too much smoke coming from way too many different directions to believe that there hasn't been some sort of internal discord concerning Bruce. There's probably about 100 adjectives that would come to Tomlin's mind before "pleased" when it comes to accessing Arains job performance for this just completed season. :chuckle:


I think I am one of the rest of us, and I agree with HTG. If Tomlin was not fairly pleased that mean that Arains then he was either forced on him, or he couldn't find another OC that would take the job. I don't believe either is the case. All the smoke you are talking about is coming from outside the FO and coaching staff as far as I can tell. I think asking for a link is the sensible thing to do.

zulater
01-09-2010, 07:37 PM
I think I am one of the rest of us, and I agree with HTG. If Tomlin was not fairly pleased that mean that Arains then he was either forced on him, or he couldn't find another OC that would take the job. I don't believe either is the case. All the smoke you are talking about is coming from outside the FO and coaching staff as far as I can tell. I think asking for a link is the sensible thing to do.

Three reputable reporters( Lolley, Wexall, and Laird) that have covered the Steelers for a number of years have indicated there was some sort of inner turmoil over Arians retention. Wexall has a weekly column and otherwise contributes to Steelers Digest, a publication for which the Steelers orginization has editorial control of content. If in fact Wexall fabricated a story in which he attributes negative feelings towards a key member of the coaching staff from the Rooney's and it were untrue would you expect him ( Wexall) to retain his job?

I would really love any one of you that portray this as nothing but media myth to answer this? Because I know if someone who wrote in my official publication, someone on my payroll, out and out lied about something as important as this I'd can his ass yesterday, whether the lie appeared in my publication or not.

Honesty this whole situation reminds me of Cowboy fans from last year who accused Ed Werder of ESPN of making up all sort untruths about team discord in the Cowboy's locker room relating to T.O.

Damn lying press. :chuckle:

Texasteel
01-09-2010, 08:14 PM
Three reputable reporters( Lolley, Wexall, and Laird) that have covered the Steelers for a number of years have indicated there was some sort of inner turmoil over Arians retention. Wexall has a weekly column and otherwise contributes to Steelers Digest, a publication for which the Steelers orginization has editorial control of content. If in fact Wexall fabricated a story in which he attributes negative feelings towards a key member of the coaching staff from the Rooney's and it were untrue would you expect him ( Wexall) to retain his job?

I would really love any one of you that portray this as nothing but media myth to answer this? Because I know if someone who wrote in my official publication, someone on my payroll, out and out lied about something as important as this I'd can his ass yesterday, whether the lie appeared in my publication or not.

Honesty this whole situation reminds me of Cowboy fans from last year who accused Ed Werder of ESPN of making up all sort untruths about team discord in the Cowboy's locker room relating to T.O.

Damn lying press. :chuckle:

I don't care who they are, if they print a story that they can not substantiate. Then they are printing a rumor. Now if any of these stories have been substantiated, then we have a different case all together. Till then if someone wants a link to support the statement that BA was forced on Tomlin, it makes sence to me. If someone, anyone, thinks that it is obveous the Tomlin was please with BA's work there opinion is as valid as yours. The one solid fact that I can point to is that BA is still the OC or the Steeler. Everything else is just an opinion. You should keep this in mind before you speek for the rest of us.

zulater
01-09-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't care who they are, if they print a story that they can not substantiate. Then they are printing a rumor. Now if any of these stories have been substantiated, then we have a different case all together. Till then if someone wants a link to support the statement that BA was forced on Tomlin, it makes sence to me. If someone, anyone, thinks that it is obveous the Tomlin was please with BA's work there opinion is as valid as yours. The one solid fact that I can point to is that BA is still the OC or the Steeler. Everything else is just an opinion. You should keep this in mind before you speek for the rest of us.

I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

Still no answer though on whether you expect the Rooney's to dismiss Wexall from the "Official Publication of the Steelers" for making up lies? :coffee:

stillers4me
01-09-2010, 08:23 PM
two words come to mind: lame duck.

I'm wondering if Arians told Tomlin that he was planning on retiring after his contract is up and they struck a deal about how next seasons offense should play out. I haven't read anything to substantiate that, so dont' ask for a link because there is none. I was just thinking about the different scenarios since this is the last year of Arians contract.

Texasteel
01-09-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

Still no answer though on whether you expect the Rooney's to dismiss Wexall from the "Official Publication of the Steelers" for making up lies? :coffee:

The words the "rest of us" does not indicate, I am speaking for myself.

As far as the Rooney's are concerned, I can not say what they will or will not do, you can if you want to. I am just speaking of unsubstantiated reports, which is what these are.:coffee:

HometownGal
01-09-2010, 08:39 PM
That might be obvious to you, but it's certainly not obvious to the rest of us. :noidea: Obviously there's some level of confidence going foward that Tomlin thinks Bruce can get things turned around the way he needs him to. But there's way too much smoke coming from way too many different directions to believe that there hasn't been some sort of internal discord concerning Bruce. There's probably about 100 adjectives that would come to Tomlin's mind before "pleased" when it comes to accessing Arains job performance for this just completed season. :chuckle:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I was starting to believe Laird's :bs: when I should have known better than to trust ANY story floating around out there that doesn't come directly from the Steelers organization. As I've said many times before - drama sells. If you want to be so gullible to put any degree of credence into these rumor mills, more power to ya. I choose to be realistic and realism tells me that if Tomlin wasn't for the most part pleased with Arians job performance (and I honestly see no reason why he wouldn't be - for the majority of the 16 game season, his O put more than enough points on the board to win the games the D choked away) and if the Steelers FO really wanted Arians shitcanned, he would have been gone, no ifs, ands or buts. Sports jocks are like politicians - they tell you whatever they think you want to hear whether it's true or false.

zulater
01-09-2010, 08:48 PM
The words the "rest of us" does not indicate, I am speaking for myself.

As far as the Rooney's are concerned, I can not say what they will or will not do, you can if you want to. I am just speaking of unsubstantiated reports, which is what these are.:coffee:

So the Rooney's wouldn't know whether Wexall's quote " the Rooneys want Arians out" was substantial or not? :doh:

:rofl:

zulater
01-09-2010, 08:51 PM
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I was starting to believe Laird's :bs: when I should have known better than to trust ANY story floating around out there that doesn't come directly from the Steelers organization. As I've said many times before - drama sells. If you want to be so gullible to put any degree of credence into these rumor mills, more power to ya. I choose to be realistic and realism tells me that if Tomlin wasn't for the most part pleased with Arians job performance (and I honestly see no reason why he wouldn't be - for the majority of the 16 game season, his O put more than enough points on the board to win the games the D choked away) and if the Steelers FO really wanted Arians shitcanned, he would have been gone, no ifs, ands or buts. Sports jocks are like politicians - they tell you whatever they think you want to hear whether it's true or false.

That nasty old Ed Werder made up a lot of lies about T.O. and the goings on inside the Dallas locker room last year too. Damn nasty lying media. :chuckle:

Texasteel
01-09-2010, 08:53 PM
So the Rooney's wouldn't know whether Wexall's quote " the Rooneys want Arians out" was substantial or not? :doh:

:rofl:

Oh, did the Rooney's substantiate the story, or are you just throwing stuff against the wall again, hoping something will stick. :coffee:

Dino 6 Rings
01-09-2010, 08:54 PM
"we got greedy with the pass"

and now I'm watching teams that aren't wearing Black and Gold play in playoff games and it makes me wanna puke.

Draft a fullback, tone down the pass pass pass pass pass run pass pass pass pass pass pass run crap and get back to Balanced Football.

I Said Good Day Sir!

zulater
01-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Oh, did the Rooney's substantiate the story, or are you just throwing stuff against the wall again, hoping something will stick. :coffee:

Wexall writes a weekly opinion column and feature article for the "Official Publication of the Pittsburgh Steelers", that being Steelers Digest. You tell me, if he lied, does he keep his job?

:coffee:

I'm sure there's no point waiting for a direct answer, but I will anyway.

Texasteel
01-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Wexall writes a weekly opinion column and feature article for the "Official Publication of the Pittsburgh Steelers", that being Steelers Digest. You tell me, if he lied, does he keep his job?

:coffee:

I'm sure there's no point waiting for a direct answer, but I will anyway.

I answered that question, you just didn't like the answer. You can talk in circles if you like.

You implied that the Rooney's substantiated the story. Did they or did they not?

zulater
01-09-2010, 09:22 PM
I answered that question, you just didn't like the answer. You can talk in circles if you like.

You implied that the Rooney's substantiated the story. Did they or did they not?

I'm not talking in circles but, you're clearly avoiding the question I asked.

Even though you haven't afforded me the simple courtesy of a direct answer to a very simple question I will answer your vague inquiry with a direct but somewhat complicated answer, so chances are good you wont get it. But here goes anyway.

You implied that the Rooney's substantiated the story. Did they or did they not?

They've done neither yet.

They will substantiate the story or not by their actions in regards to Mr. Wexall's future employment as a writer for Steelers Digest.


If they dismiss him, or he writes some sort of formal published apology then it will ring loud and clear that the report had no substance.

If he continues on writing for Steelers Digest then only one of two assumptions can be made.

He was reporting truthfully.

Or the Rooney's tolerate liars when it serves their purpose.

I don't believe the latter to be true of the Rooneys.

WH
01-10-2010, 04:16 AM
I'm wondering if Arians told Tomlin that he was planning on retiring after his contract is up and they struck a deal about how next seasons offense should play out. I haven't read anything to substantiate that, so dont' ask for a link because there is none. I was just thinking about the different scenarios since this is the last year of Arians contract.

This crossed my mind the other day as well.

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 04:49 AM
I'm not talking in circles but, you're clearly avoiding the question I asked.

Even though you haven't afforded me the simple courtesy of a direct answer to a very simple question I will answer your vague inquiry with a direct but somewhat complicated answer, so chances are good you wont get it. But here goes anyway.

You implied that the Rooney's substantiated the story. Did they or did they not?

They've done neither yet.

They will substantiate the story or not by their actions in regards to Mr. Wexall's future employment as a writer for Steelers Digest.


If they dismiss him, or he writes some sort of formal published apology then it will ring loud and clear that the report had no substance.

If he continues on writing for Steelers Digest then only one of two assumptions can be made.

He was reporting truthfully.

Or the Rooney's tolerate liars when it serves their purpose.

I don't believe the latter to be true of the Rooneys.


Reporting want someone may or may not have told him, and reporting the truth is not always the same thing.

And again I did answer you question, but you just didn't like the answer. So you just go ahead and post the answer you would like and put my name on it. You seem very willing to speak for everyone else including the Rooney".

zulater
01-10-2010, 05:32 AM
Reporting want someone may or may not have told him, and reporting the truth is not always the same thing.

And again I did answer you question, but you just didn't like the answer. So you just go ahead and post the answer you would like and put my name on it. You seem very willing to speak for everyone else including the Rooney".

You make no sense whatsoever?

Aren't you capable of giving a direct answer to a simple question? :banging:

Obviously no.

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 06:15 AM
The words the "rest of us" does not indicate, I am speaking for myself.

As far as the Rooney's are concerned, I can not say what they will or will not do, you can if you want to. I am just speaking of unsubstantiated reports, which is what these are.:coffee:

That is a strait forward and honest answer. I will not jump to a conclusion not knowing all the facts. That may why you couldn't understand it.

HometownGal
01-10-2010, 06:55 AM
That is a strait forward and honest answer. I will not jump to a conclusion not knowing all the facts. That may why you couldn't understand it.

Bingo. :applaudit:

God forbid anyone actually believe that the Steelers and Tomlin wanted to keep Arians because they clearly saw that HE and his unit actually did a decent job overall and weren't the root of the problems this team suffered this season. :coffee:

I'm with you Tex - unless I hear or read something definitive from the Steelers FO or Tomlin himself on this topic, it aint holdin' water with me.

Rick5895
01-10-2010, 08:18 AM
Even though I am not a B.A' fan, I am glad they kept him. The O seemed to be getting it together the last 3 weeks. Continuity is very important, we have great chemistry with Ben, Heath, Wallace, Santo, Hines and Mendy, it would be foolish to go in another direction. The offense needs only a little tweaking. Red zone O has to improve and hopefully they won't rely on so many empty backfield sets next season. We can now look to fortify our D, with Troy and Smith returning hopefully we can add some youngster to contribute, there is no doubt we will be no worse than 12-4 next season.

zulater
01-10-2010, 02:01 PM
That is a strait forward and honest answer. I will not jump to a conclusion not knowing all the facts. That may why you couldn't understand it.

Is it unsubstantiated that Steelers Digest is in fact "the official publication of the Pittsburgh Steelers? ( as it says on the cover of every issue}

Is it unsubtantiated that Jim Wexall writes a weekly opinion column and feature article for same said periodical?

Is it unsubstaniated that Wexall said in no uncertain terms that the Rooney's were unhappy with Arians?

None of the above are unsubstantiated and you know it.

So again it comes down to this.

If as our starting point we're to assume that Wexall did in fact lie, embellish, or misreprent the Rooney's position and or feelings towards the continued employment of Bruce Arians.

Going for\ward, do you believe the Rooney's will tolerate someone who lied or embellished their opinion about such an important matter to continue on in the capacity as a lead writer for the official publication of the team?

Would you?

:coffee:


Anyone?

43Hitman
01-10-2010, 02:14 PM
I would shit can anyone that started such a controversial rumor tbh.

zulater
01-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Even though I am not a B.A' fan, I am glad they kept him. The O seemed to be getting it together the last 3 weeks. Continuity is very important, we have great chemistry with Ben, Heath, Wallace, Santo, Hines and Mendy, it would be foolish to go in another direction. The offense needs only a little tweaking. Red zone O has to improve and hopefully they won't rely on so many empty backfield sets next season. We can now look to fortify our D, with Troy and Smith returning hopefully we can add some youngster to contribute, there is no doubt we will be no worse than 12-4 next season.

Honestly I've got mixed feeling about BA's return. Outside of the wacky gadget play that misfired against the Dolphins I thought Arians showed some pretty good things the last 3 weeks of the season. I liked the way they motioned into different formations, I liked the re-introcudtion of the shovel pass into the offense. I thought Ben was taking better advantage of the underneath routes. etc... I

Bottom line the decisions been made, it's out of our hands, I welcome Bruce back into the fold ( not that it matters one iota :chuckle: ) and hope for a really good season to come.

I would gladly bow out of all further Arains discussions poste haste if it were not for three things.

1.The bury your head in the sand mentality that's prevails here. That insists that any rumored or reported internal discord amongst the Steelers hiearchy concerning Arians continued employment and or previous job performance is strictly made up fiction by reputable reporters with no prior history that's been cited of making up such lies in the past.

2. The further insistence that any questioning of Arains job performance is indictive of hate, and ignorance by the questioning poster or writer.

3. That Arians had little or no culpability whatsover in our just completed disappointing season.

zulater
01-10-2010, 02:31 PM
I would shit can anyone that started such a controversial rumor tbh.

Thank you. :hatsoff: So would I.





Were it unfounded. :wink02:

WH
01-10-2010, 02:55 PM
Honestly I've got mixed feeling about BA's return. Outside of the wacky gadget play that misfired against the Dolphins I thought Arians showed some pretty good things the last 3 weeks of the season. I liked the way they motioned into different formations, I liked the re-introcudtion of the shovel pass into the offense. I thought Ben was taking better advantage of the underneath routes. etc... I

Bottom line the decisions been made, it's out of our hands, I welcome Bruce back into the fold ( not that it matters one iota :chuckle: ) and hope for a really good season to come.

I would gladly bow out of all further Arains discussions poste haste if it were not for three things.

1.The bury your head in the sand mentality that's prevails here. That insists that any rumored or reported internal discord amongst the Steelers hiearchy concerning Arians continued employment and or previous job performance is strictly made up fiction by reputable reporters with no prior history that's been cited of making up such lies in the past.

2. The further insistence that any questioning of Arains job performance is indictive of hate, and ignorance by the questioning poster or writer.

3. That Arians had little or no culpability whatsover in our just completed disappointing season.

Good post.

43Hitman
01-10-2010, 03:02 PM
Thank you. :hatsoff: So would I.





Were it unfounded. :wink02:

Exactly, I should have included that caveat.

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 04:44 PM
Honestly I've got mixed feeling about BA's return. Outside of the wacky gadget play that misfired against the Dolphins I thought Arians showed some pretty good things the last 3 weeks of the season. I liked the way they motioned into different formations, I liked the re-introcudtion of the shovel pass into the offense. I thought Ben was taking better advantage of the underneath routes. etc... I

Bottom line the decisions been made, it's out of our hands, I welcome Bruce back into the fold ( not that it matters one iota :chuckle: ) and hope for a really good season to come.

I would gladly bow out of all further Arains discussions poste haste if it were not for three things.

1.The bury your head in the sand mentality that's prevails here. That insists that any rumored or reported internal discord amongst the Steelers hiearchy concerning Arians continued employment and or previous job performance is strictly made up fiction by reputable reporters with no prior history that's been cited of making up such lies in the past.

2. The further insistence that any questioning of Arains job performance is indictive of hate, and ignorance by the questioning poster or writer.

3. That Arians had little or no culpability whatsover in our just completed disappointing season.

:applaudit::applaudit::hatsoff:

unfortunately everyone who doesnt think everything is all roses and glory has been pigeonholed into a single group, and turned into straw men that need to be torched like a witch in salem.

T.Richardson
01-10-2010, 04:57 PM
Honestly I've got mixed feeling about BA's return. Outside of the wacky gadget play that misfired against the Dolphins I thought Arians showed some pretty good things the last 3 weeks of the season. I liked the way they motioned into different formations, I liked the re-introcudtion of the shovel pass into the offense. I thought Ben was taking better advantage of the underneath routes. etc... I

Bottom line the decisions been made, it's out of our hands, I welcome Bruce back into the fold ( not that it matters one iota :chuckle: ) and hope for a really good season to come.

I would gladly bow out of all further Arains discussions poste haste if it were not for three things.

1.The bury your head in the sand mentality that's prevails here. That insists that any rumored or reported internal discord amongst the Steelers hiearchy concerning Arians continued employment and or previous job performance is strictly made up fiction by reputable reporters with no prior history that's been cited of making up such lies in the past.

2. The further insistence that any questioning of Arains job performance is indictive of hate, and ignorance by the questioning poster or writer.

3. That Arians had little or no culpability whatsover in our just completed disappointing season.

wheres the lynch mob for LeBeau then? i mean if Arians is to be fired for a decent season, then LeBeau should also be fired for a mediocre season.. doesnt matter if he is a HOF player/coach or not.. he deserves a lot of criticism.. injuries are no excuse.

The Ravens lost Ed Reed for like 4 weeks in a row, and Suggs..but they still managed to shut down the Raiders offense..

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 05:01 PM
"bu..bu..bu..lebeau".

pssst. the whole "lunch mob" thing is is an apparition. a strawman. a figment of all your imaginations who thought arians was an offensive genius.

it helps you feel better.

T.Richardson
01-10-2010, 05:06 PM
"bu..bu..bu..lebeau".

pssst. the whole "lunch mob" thing is is an apparition. a strawman. a figment of all your imaginations who thought arians was an offensive genius.

it helps you feel better.

"bu...bu...bu..bu Arians doesnt run the ball enough"

the whole "the Steelers cant grind out drives in the 4th quarter" thing is an apparition. a strawman. a figment of all your imagination when the Steelers were tops i n the NFL in TOP..

zulater
01-10-2010, 05:13 PM
wheres the lynch mob for LeBeau then? i mean if Arians is to be fired for a decent season, then LeBeau should also be fired for a mediocre season.. doesnt matter if he is a HOF player/coach or not.. he deserves a lot of criticism.. injuries are no excuse.

Really?

So if Ben Roethlisberger missed 11 or 12 games, and you compound that with Heath Miller missing the final 9 games, you wouldn't think that would factor in to your end of the season job evaluation for Arians for an underperforming offense?

Yeah right. I'm sure you'd never "reach" for that sort of excuse for Arians. :chuckle:


The Ravens lost Ed Reed for like 4 weeks in a row, and Suggs..but they still managed to shut down the Raiders offense..

Yeah they were shutting them down all right, as soon as Jamarcus came in that is. :toofunny:

Ed Reed isn't Troy Polamalu, and Suggs isn't Aaron Smith. But regardless, few if any are saying LeBeau had a great year. But what he has had that Arians hasn't is a great career as an NFL assistant coach. So perhaps it makes sense to give him a little more latitude. Particuarly one year removed from his unit being a dominating unit with all of it's horses. What year was it exactly that the Arians offense was a dominant unti throughout an entire season? :noidea:

btw I'm fine with Arians continued employment by the Steelers. I just want him to iron out a few wrinkles. :tt:

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Is it unsubstantiated that Steelers Digest is in fact "the official publication of the Pittsburgh Steelers? ( as it says on the cover of every issue}

Is it unsubtantiated that Jim Wexall writes a weekly opinion column and feature article for same said periodical?

Is it unsubstaniated that Wexall said in no uncertain terms that the Rooney's were unhappy with Arians?

None of the above are unsubstantiated and you know it.

So again it comes down to this.

If as our starting point we're to assume that Wexall did in fact lie, embellish, or misreprent the Rooney's position and or feelings towards the continued employment of Bruce Arians.

Going for\ward, do you believe the Rooney's will tolerate someone who lied or embellished their opinion about such an important matter to continue on in the capacity as a lead writer for the official publication of the team?

Would you?

:coffee:


Anyone?

First place you are the one calling Wexall a lier. I just said that he report was and as far as I know still is unsubstantiated, and I would not take it as gospel until it is.

Once again, I can not and will not try to say what the Rooney's are thinking or will do. You can if you want, but I will not.

zulater
01-10-2010, 06:57 PM
First place you are the one calling Wexall a lier. I just said that he report was and as far as I know still is unsubstantiated, and I would not take it as gospel until it is.

So the Rooney's couldn't substaniate whether a rumor concerning thoughts attibuted to them was true or not? :doh:

Once again, I can not and will not try to say what the Rooney's are thinking or will do. You can if you want, but I will not.

I gave you a second question, I asked what you would do if you were in that situation.

Show some spine, and quit dodging the question for gods sake. :banging:

zulater
01-10-2010, 07:18 PM
BTW does anyone besides Tex here think I'm callin Wexall a liar?

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 07:33 PM
BTW does anyone besides Tex here think I'm callin Wexall a liar?

You brought up the word, I did not.

Since I don't know all the facts in the situation I will not speculate. It has nothing to do with spine, it has to do with intelligent. You are wasting your time insulting me, I am way to old to be goated into anything.

zulater
01-10-2010, 07:37 PM
You brought up the word, I did not.

Whatever, I'm tired of your game of dodgeball. No need to go on any further. :yawn:

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 07:42 PM
Whatever, I'm tired of your game of dodgeball. No need to go on any further. :yawn:

Good for you:wave:

zulater
01-10-2010, 07:44 PM
Good for you:wave:

And weak of you. But that's life.

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 07:45 PM
And weak of you. But that's life.

You speaking for the rest of us again?

zulater
01-10-2010, 07:47 PM
You speaking for the rest of us again?

No I'm only speaking to the guy that doesn't have the ability to answer a simple question with a direct answer. No one else.

zulater
01-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Is it unsubstantiated that Steelers Digest is in fact "the official publication of the Pittsburgh Steelers? ( as it says on the cover of every issue}

Is it unsubtantiated that Jim Wexall writes a weekly opinion column and feature article for same said periodical?

Is it unsubstaniated that Wexall said in no uncertain terms that the Rooney's were unhappy with Arians?

None of the above are unsubstantiated and you know it.

So again it comes down to this.

If as our starting point we're to assume that Wexall did in fact lie, embellish, or misreprent the Rooney's position and or feelings towards the continued employment of Bruce Arians.

Going for\ward, do you believe the Rooney's will tolerate someone who lied or embellished their opinion about such an important matter to continue on in the capacity as a lead writer for the official publication of the team?

Would you?

:coffee:


Anyone?

bump.

Care to try again Tex?

It's really not hard to follow. Just like ABC really.

Wexall says " the Rooneys want Arians out", direct quote. Follow so far.

Now this is either true or it's a lie. Still with me?

The Rooneys' quite likely knowing what they do and don't want could probably "substaniate" the validity of this statement, yes or no?

Now read the above again and see if you can figure out how to answer a freaking simple question with a direct answer?

Any chance that actually happening before next season starts? :coffee:

zulater
01-10-2010, 08:43 PM
One last thing just so there's no confusion on anyone's part about where I stand.

In regard to the statement "the Rooney's want Arians out", I don't belieive Wexall made it up. In other words I think it's true. Therefore I don't expect Wexall to be dismissed from Steelers Digest. But if it is any way embellished ( in other words a lie) then I would expect the Rooney's would see to it that Wexall was relieved of his duties at Steelers Digest, or at the very least demand some sort of printed apology from Mr. Wexall. It's what I would do, that's for sure.

But back to my presumption of innocence for Wexall. Just because the Rooney's in some manner,at some point expressed the view that they wanted Arians out, directly or indirectly to Jim Wexall, doesn't mean they would force the issue and demand that their head coach fire Bruce. If the Rooney's dictated the make up of coaching staffs like that they would have gone through a lot more Head coaches than 3 in the past 40 years.

X-Terminator
01-10-2010, 08:47 PM
Just because the Rooney's in some manner,at some point expressed the view that they wanted Arians out, directly or indirectly to Jim Wexall, doesn't mean they would force the issue and demand that their head coach fire Bruce. If the Rooney's dictated the make up of coaching staffs like that they would have gone through a lot more coaches than 3 in the past 40 years.

I was going to post this, but you beat me to it. Personally, I never believe any kind of rumors like this unless and until I see it in print by a reputable source complete with quotes from the involved parties...however, you are correct that even if this is true, the Rooneys leave the final decision up to the head coach, possibly with some caveats.

Texasteel
01-10-2010, 08:56 PM
bump.

Care to try again Tex?

It's really not hard to follow. Just like ABC really.

Wexall says " the Rooneys want Arians out", direct quote. Follow so far.

Now this is either true or it's a lie. Still with me?

The Rooneys' quite likely knowing what they do and don't want could probably "substaniate" the validity of this statement, yes or no?

Now read the above again and see if you can figure out how to answer a freaking simple question with a direct answer?

Any chance that actually happening before next season starts? :coffee:


Unlike you, I am just not going to make such a statement without knowing the fact. Thats what grownups do.

zulater
01-10-2010, 09:09 PM
Unlike you, I am just not going to make such a statement without knowing the fact. Thats what grownups do.

Grownup my ass! :rofl: I didn't make up a damn thing. You're hopeless dude.

http://www.outdoorfunstore.com/dodgeball/DodgeballMovie-DVD.jpg

Rock on tex.

Texasteel
01-11-2010, 03:45 AM
Grownup my ass! :rofl: I didn't make up a damn thing. You're hopeless dude.

http://www.outdoorfunstore.com/dodgeball/DodgeballMovie-DVD.jpg

Rock on tex.

Hopeless? Because I would not guess what the Rooney's would or would not do? Whatever.:coffee:

You could have ended this conversation by supplying what was asked for days ago.
Please supply the the link that confirms the report. It"s that simple. With out such confirmation these reports are nothing more that rumor. You seem to have made your decision on conjecture, rumors, and what ifs. Some of the rest of us, note the word some, will not take these reports at face value without such confirmation. To me, and some others, that would be the logical way to approach this.

I was prepared to let this die, you decided you would not, so I ask you again. Please supply the link that confirms these stories. You think we might get them by the start of next season, or the one after that? I don't think so.

zulater
01-11-2010, 05:25 AM
http://pit.scout.com/2/935134.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/07/report-roethlisberger-saved-arians/

Texasteel
01-11-2010, 06:58 AM
http://pit.scout.com/2/935134.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/07/report-roethlisberger-saved-arians/

The same unsubstantiated stories. I think this has gone as far as it needs to don't you. I will never convince you and you will not convince me.

WH
01-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Way to dance merrily in the shades of grey.

mesaSteeler
01-11-2010, 07:26 PM
Why Bruce Arians should go
January 11, 3:51 PMPittsburgh Sports Examiner
Matt Pawlikowski
http://www.examiner.com/x-2703-Pittsburgh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d11-Why-Bruce-Arians-should-go

NOTE: This is the first of a two part series about Bruce Arians, tomorrow we examine why he will be here at least another season.

PITTSBURGH - There is no question that the Steelers run game the past two years has not been on par with traditional Steeler football.

The Steelers answer to this was the dismissal of offensive line coach Larry Zeirlein from the team.

The problem with this is while quarterback Ben Roethlisberger suffered 50 sacks on the year, many of those were not due to the line. Instead it was due to the fact he scrambled to make plays. Even a line full of All-Pro players would have trouble containing an opponent for this period of time.

Part of this is the fact Roethlisberger is a competitor and more than not, he makes plays. The other part stems from Bruce Arians scheme, which is totally unimaginative and revolves around passing the ball and finding the big play.

In this the year of change, something had to occur after the Steelers missed the playoffs and Zeirlein was it, at least from an offensive standpoint. Bob Ligashesky getting the axe? Now that was a no-brainer and should have happened sooner.

This brings us back to Arians. Love him or hate him, you can't blame the 9-7 record entirely on his unit. There were other major problems. The defense couldn't close out games, the secondary without Bryant McFadden and Troy Polamalu was dismal at best, and Ligashesky's special teams were just awful.

Arians offense produced a 4,000 yard passer, had a 1,000 yard rusher, and ranked seventh in the NFL. But a decent offensive coordinator in the NFL puts his players in a position to win, something he failed to do.

And two things, actually a number, come to mind why he shouldn't be back.

First, if true, the fact he leaked information to Ken Laird of ESPN 1250 about his imminent demise, which caused a rethinking of things in the UPMC South Side facility should send up red flags.

It shows that Arians is a control freak and THAT isn't the Steeler way of handling things. It’s not the Rooney way, and if Bill Cowher was still in the house, Arians would have been gone just for that fact.

But here is an even bigger reason Tomlin and the front office should look at. The reason Butch Davis fired him from the Browns job.

These were the Browns offensive numbers under him...2001 3154 passing, 1351 rushing, 2002 3665 passing, 1615 rushing, 2003 3116 passing, 1670 rushing.

Seem similar?

And then there was this fact that Davis was upset about. Poor situational football, especially when it came to the Red Zone.

In 2009 the Steelers ranked 21st in the NFL by scoring touchdowns in the Red Zone, which for the firepower they had is unacceptable.

Tomlin should also look at the fact Arians is credited as the man who ruined Tim Couch's career while with the Browns. Not that Couch was an elite quarterback, but if he did this to an average QB with his system, how much shorter will Roethlisberger's be under the same one?

Here are some other figures as to why the Steelers should rethink keeping Arians. The team ranked 17th in third down conversions. To put that in perspective, it was worse than the Redskins.

They were 12th in the NFL in points scored; again with the firepower they possessed this should have been higher.

Yes the NFL has become a more pass happy league the past decade, but to win football games you have to be balanced and have a run attack and mix things up.

Three opposing players this season told Examiner.com they knew exactly what was coming, and that was the reason they held the upper hand.

Makes you wonder, especially when high school coaches point the same thing out.
January 11, 3:51

SMR
01-11-2010, 07:33 PM
Why Bruce Arians should go
January 11, 3:51 PMPittsburgh Sports Examiner
Matt Pawlikowski
http://www.examiner.com/x-2703-Pittsburgh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d11-Why-Bruce-Arians-should-go

NOTE: This is the first of a two part series about Bruce Arians, tomorrow we examine why he will be here at least another season.

PITTSBURGH - There is no question that the Steelers run game the past two years has not been on par with traditional Steeler football.

The Steelers answer to this was the dismissal of offensive line coach Larry Zeirlein from the team.

The problem with this is while quarterback Ben Roethlisberger suffered 50 sacks on the year, many of those were not due to the line. Instead it was due to the fact he scrambled to make plays. Even a line full of All-Pro players would have trouble containing an opponent for this period of time.

Part of this is the fact Roethlisberger is a competitor and more than not, he makes plays. The other part stems from Bruce Arians scheme, which is totally unimaginative and revolves around passing the ball and finding the big play.

In this the year of change, something had to occur after the Steelers missed the playoffs and Zeirlein was it, at least from an offensive standpoint. Bob Ligashesky getting the axe? Now that was a no-brainer and should have happened sooner.

This brings us back to Arians. Love him or hate him, you can't blame the 9-7 record entirely on his unit. There were other major problems. The defense couldn't close out games, the secondary without Bryant McFadden and Troy Polamalu was dismal at best, and Ligashesky's special teams were just awful.

Arians offense produced a 4,000 yard passer, had a 1,000 yard rusher, and ranked seventh in the NFL. But a decent offensive coordinator in the NFL puts his players in a position to win, something he failed to do.

And two things, actually a number, come to mind why he shouldn't be back.

First, if true, the fact he leaked information to Ken Laird of ESPN 1250 about his imminent demise, which caused a rethinking of things in the UPMC South Side facility should send up red flags.

It shows that Arians is a control freak and THAT isn't the Steeler way of handling things. It’s not the Rooney way, and if Bill Cowher was still in the house, Arians would have been gone just for that fact.

But here is an even bigger reason Tomlin and the front office should look at. The reason Butch Davis fired him from the Browns job.

These were the Browns offensive numbers under him...2001 3154 passing, 1351 rushing, 2002 3665 passing, 1615 rushing, 2003 3116 passing, 1670 rushing.

Seem similar?

And then there was this fact that Davis was upset about. Poor situational football, especially when it came to the Red Zone.

In 2009 the Steelers ranked 21st in the NFL by scoring touchdowns in the Red Zone, which for the firepower they had is unacceptable.

Tomlin should also look at the fact Arians is credited as the man who ruined Tim Couch's career while with the Browns. Not that Couch was an elite quarterback, but if he did this to an average QB with his system, how much shorter will Roethlisberger's be under the same one?

Here are some other figures as to why the Steelers should rethink keeping Arians. The team ranked 17th in third down conversions. To put that in perspective, it was worse than the Redskins.

They were 12th in the NFL in points scored; again with the firepower they possessed this should have been higher.

Yes the NFL has become a more pass happy league the past decade, but to win football games you have to be balanced and have a run attack and mix things up.

Three opposing players this season told Examiner.com they knew exactly what was coming, and that was the reason they held the upper hand.

Makes you wonder, especially when high school coaches point the same thing out.
January 11, 3:51

Interesting, but isn't it a little too late since the Steelers are keeping Arians? Am I missing something here?
:noidea:

revefsreleets
01-11-2010, 07:39 PM
Save this for NEXT year....

Vincent
01-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Why do we need to waste another season on what is inevitable? The stupidity of all this is numbing.

MasterOfPuppets
01-11-2010, 09:23 PM
i hope for tomlins sake it was the rooney's descicion to keep arians...otherwise he may go down with the ship.

Three opposing players this season told Examiner.com they knew exactly what was coming, and that was the reason they held the upper hand.
well it wasn't to hard to predict considering he did the same stupid shit all year. all you hade to do was think what they should do, then go with the opposite...

Psyychoward86
01-11-2010, 09:31 PM
i dont get how a guy credited with turn Peyton Manning into one of the Greats, is also credited with destroying Tim Couch's career.


???

zulater
01-11-2010, 09:35 PM
i dont get how a guy credited with turn Peyton Manning into one of the Greats, is also credited with destroying Tim Couch's career.


???

When did Peyton Manning ever credit Bruce Arians for making him great?

:toofunny:

MACH1
01-11-2010, 09:43 PM
When did Peyton Manning ever credit Bruce Arians for making him great?

:toofunny:

He didn't. I think it was the Guru.

zulater
01-11-2010, 09:44 PM
He didn't. I think it was the Guru.

link? :chuckle: :wink02:

tony hipchest
01-11-2010, 09:46 PM
bwahaha!

if only arians coulda saved ryan leaf!

we better watch out. al davis may come knocking on the steelers door for a new head coach to save jamarcus russell. :sofunny:

Bubbabanjo
01-11-2010, 10:09 PM
This is stoopid...........Ben does hold the ball too long. But he needs to know when to dump to the outlet...even if its the dirt in front of a covered guy. Arians isnt causing all of those sacks. Ben's too bull headed.

With no bus to break down the D. You gotta pass. Mendenhal can break great runs....but he's not the truck we need to pound out the yards all day long and punish the D on the other side.

Arians and the offense were the only bright spot this year.....too much to fix on the D. Dont waste time fixin the part that wasnt losing games. Secondary and special teams need fixed bad. Depth on the O line next. We need some new players not new coaches right now.....well other than the ones that got canned. Good start there.

Prok
01-11-2010, 10:22 PM
Arghhhhhhh dammit I got an Arians ice cream headache again !! Please make it stop !!!! :banging:

zulater
01-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Arghhhhhhh dammit I got an Arians ice cream headache again !! Please make it stop !!!! :banging:

Don't click on any threads that have his name on them then.

Prok
01-11-2010, 10:25 PM
Don't click on any threads that have his name on them then.

Can't help myself. Soooooo hard to resist. lol

zulater
01-11-2010, 11:14 PM
Can't help myself. Soooooo hard to resist. lol

:toofunny:

MACH1
01-11-2010, 11:19 PM
link? :chuckle: :wink02:

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=729001&highlight=arians+manning#post729001

:toofunny: :wave:

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 08:19 AM
Don't click on any threads that have his name on them then.

That would be very difficult around here, as the BA threads have put a stranglehold on the Steelers forum, sadly, but that will be remedied from this point on. It's beyond the point of being ridiculous.

revefsreleets
01-12-2010, 09:06 AM
He didn't. I think it was the Guru.


Wait a second....you're telling me that I'M the one who attributed Manning giving props to Arians for his development, and NOT Peyton Manning himself?

C'mon, guys, let's at least keep it realistic here. I've seen a dozen articles over the years where Manning gives props to Bruce...I did a quickie Google search and this was like the second article that popped up.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-miami-dolphins-peyton-manning-091709,0,3509044.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sun-sentinel%2Fsports%2Ffootball%2Fpro%2Fdolphins+%28M iami+Dolphins+%2F+South+Florida+Sun-Sentinel%29

As a Colts (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sports/football/baltimore-colts-ORSPT000159.topic) rookie, Manning worked with quarterbacks coach Bruce Arians, now the Steelers (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sports/football/pittsburgh-steelers-ORSPT000055.topic)' offensive coordinator. They spent hours in the film room breaking down the intricacies of the play fake, particularly when it came to three of the best at the fundamental: Boomer Esiason (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/entertainment/boomer-esiason-PECLB001589.topic), Dave Krieg and Steve DeBerg.

"Bruce and I really spent a lot of time," Manning says, "on trying to make the run and the pass look the exact same."

And what is it like when Manning gets the defense, especially the safeties and inside linebackers, to bite?

I'm not going to spend a bunch of time citing articles about something that is already widely known....it's akin to having to cite sources that prove the World is round.

I don't care if you call me the guru and attempt to make yourselves look better by belittling me, but we've GOT to at least be realistic in the criticisms...

WH
01-12-2010, 11:51 AM
I don't care if you call me the guru and attempt to make yourselves look better by belittling me, but we've GOT to at least be realistic in the criticisms...

Hy-po-crite
clap clap clapclapclap
Hy-po-crite
clap clap clapclapclap

Dino 6 Rings
01-12-2010, 11:56 AM
HEY!

I'm the official Braintrust Guru of this forum, I ordained as much a few pages back.

Dino 6 Rings
01-12-2010, 12:07 PM
Listen folks.

Some people hate Bruce, some Like him, and some have no real opinion on him or don't think he's responsible for the lackluster performance of our entire team this year.

I have pointed out, that this season was an Epic Fail by the Entire Organization. 9-7 after a Super Bowl with basically the same talent and losses to the Chiefs, Raiders and Browns equals Epic Failure.

Now, going into next year, for whatever reason, Bruce Arians is our Offensive Coordinator. Now, unless he dramatically changes his philosophy of Pass Pass Run, Pass Run Pass, Pass Pass Pass, most of us, who are the "haters" or should I say "Not Big Bruce Fans" will call him out if he once again, starts lining us up in shotgun 4 wides sets on 3rd and 1 time and time again. We will also call him out for RedZone problems if we keep coming away with 3 instead of 7 or turn it over time and time again on 1st or 2nd down in the Redzone. Us "Not Big Bruce Fans" or NBBFers will call him out.

If he throws 40 times in freezing weather against a team that couldn't stop the run all year, we will call him out. If he calls a wide receiver reverse sweep pass right after a turnover that results in a turnover because the guy throwing the ball is like the one non-former QB WR we have on the roster, we will call him out.

We will also applaud a 4,000 yard passing season for the QB with 2 1,000 yard receivers, as long as it does not come during a Non-Playoff Year.

Impress me, get those stats AND make the playoffs tough guy.

We all know his philosphy is set up the Run with the Pass and there "is no need for a fullback in my offense" Some of us NBBFers really can't stand that philosophy, but we don't want him to fail. We just want him to get back to Balanced Offense where we run an equal amount to the times we pass. And we'd really love some short yardage running plays that can get 1-2 yards.

The Rooney's Kept Bruce, probably because their 100 Million Dollar QB hinted at not wanting to learn an entirely new system, and most likely, because the Head Coach told him during the interview, We Will Run More next season. I hope, that is the case. I hope our Offense comes out and excels next year under Bruce, but that must include Playoffs, and points in the Redzones and Less Sacks and Less Turnovers.

The Ravens aren't going to win the Super Bowl passing the ball 9 times a game, but the Patriots aren't going to win the Superbowl running it 9 times a game either.

Find the Middle Ground.

That is all us NBBFers really want.

zulater
01-12-2010, 12:09 PM
Listen folks.

Some people hate Bruce, some Like him, and some have no real opinion on him or don't think he's responsible for the lackluster performance of our entire team this year.

I have pointed out, that this season was an Epic Fail by the Entire Organization. 9-7 after a Super Bowl with basically the same talent and losses to the Chiefs, Raiders and Browns equals Epic Failure.

Now, going into next year, for whatever reason, Bruce Arians is our Offensive Coordinator. Now, unless he dramatically changes his philosophy of Pass Pass Run, Pass Run Pass, Pass Pass Pass, most of us, who are the "haters" or should I say "Not Big Bruce Fans" will call him out if he once again, starts lining us up in shotgun 4 wides sets on 3rd and 1 time and time again. We will also call him out for RedZone problems if we keep coming away with 3 instead of 7 or turn it over time and time again on 1st or 2nd down in the Redzone. Us "Not Big Bruce Fans" or NBBFers will call him out.

If he throws 40 times in freezing weather against a team that couldn't stop the run all year, we will call him out. If he calls a wide receiver reverse sweep pass right after a turnover that results in a turnover because the guy throwing the ball is like the one non-former QB WR we have on the roster, we will call him out.

We will also applaud a 4,000 yard passing season for the QB with 2 1,000 yard receivers, as long as it does not come during a Non-Playoff Year.

Impress me, get those stats AND make the playoffs tough guy.

We all know his philosphy is set up the Run with the Pass and there "is no need for a fullback in my offense" Some of us NBBFers really can't stand that philosophy, but we don't want him to fail. We just want him to get back to Balanced Offense where we run an equal amount to the times we pass. And we'd really love some short yardage running plays that can get 1-2 yards.

The Rooney's Kept Bruce, probably because their 100 Million Dollar QB hinted at not wanting to learn an entirely new system, and most likely, because the Head Coach told him during the interview, We Will Run More next season. I hope, that is the case. I hope our Offense comes out and excels next year under Bruce, but that must include Playoffs, and points in the Redzones and Less Sacks and Less Turnovers.

The Ravens aren't going to win the Super Bowl passing the ball 9 times a game, but the Patriots aren't going to win the Superbowl running it 9 times a game either.

Find the Middle Ground.

That is all us NBBFers really want.

Great post Dino! :tt02:

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Find the Middle Ground.

That is all us NBBFers really want.and here i thought that was obvious all along, but now finding some balance means we all wanna see bruce dipped in honey and army ants, hung on a cross, and set on fire.

i wish some of bruces BFF's could find some middle ground in the acceptance of the well deserved critisizm.

zulater
01-12-2010, 12:20 PM
and here i thought that was obvious all along, but now finding some balance means we all wanna see bruce dipped in honey and army ants, hung on a cross, and set on fire.

i wish some of bruces BFF's could find some middle ground in the acceptance of the well deserved critisizm.



Yeah that would go a long way towards mending the fences. :thmbup:

WH
01-12-2010, 12:24 PM
+1 to Dino's post.

X-Terminator
01-12-2010, 12:27 PM
Yeah that would go a long way towards mending the fences. :thmbup:

I have criticized the red zone offense. I have criticized the empty sets in the red zone. I have criticized going shotgun on 3rd and short. I have criticized the game plan for the Cleveland game. I have criticized some of his situational playcalling. I have criticized not using a fullback in the offense. I have supported more balance in the offense and more commitment to the running game. And I have done so repeatedly.

So when can I expect you, Tony and the rest of the NBBFers to show a little bit more fairness and acknowledge some of the good things he's done with the offense? That, too, would go a long way towards mending the fences.

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 12:34 PM
So when can I expect you, Tony and the rest of the NBBFers to show a little bit more fairness and acknowledge some of the good things he's done with the offense? That, too, would go a long way towards mending the fences.sorry XT but you must have had me on ignore for the past 3 years. my record speaks for itself and goes WAY back to the drafting of matt spaeth and defending arians to that moron LITP.

i have been a huge arians backer until he finally jumped the shark with his kooky playcalling in cleveland.

that was the final straw. ive been a HUGE tomlin supporter to, which is why i expect him to have told arians shape up or ship out cause that is what needed to be done a while back.

anyways my posts are on record. selective memory serve nobody any good.

fansince'76
01-12-2010, 12:40 PM
I have criticized the red zone offense. I have criticized the empty sets in the red zone. I have criticized going shotgun on 3rd and short. I have criticized the game plan for the Cleveland game. I have criticized some of his situational playcalling. I have criticized not using a fullback in the offense. I have supported more balance in the offense and more commitment to the running game. And I have done so repeatedly.

So when can I expect you, Tony and the rest of the NBBFers to show a little bit more fairness and acknowledge some of the good things he's done with the offense? That, too, would go a long way towards mending the fences.

sorry XT but you must have had me on ignore for the past 3 years. my record speaks for itself and goes WAY back to the drafting of matt spaeth and defending arians to that moron LITP.

i have been a huge arians backer until he finally jumped the shark with his kooky playcalling in cleveland.

that was the final straw. ive been a HUGE tomlin supporter to, which is why i expect him to have told arians shape up or ship out cause that is what needed to be done a while back.

anyways my posts are on record. selective memory serve nobody any good.

Personally, I think things went downhill when that Feed Robot dude showed up. :chuckle:

WH
01-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Tony and the rest of the NBBFers to show a little bit more fairness and acknowledge some of the good things he's done with the offense? That, too, would go a long way towards mending the fences.
Because when Bruce achieves, he's doing his job....there is nothing to discuss more than saying ''good job bruce''

When Bruce fails, that's when conversation can begin.

But any conversation (not bashing, but conversation) about Bruce's shortcomings that is attempted is quickly turned into a chicken fight between the two groups.

The only time the cannons weren't point at each side was after the Cleveland game, then almost everyone was calling him a moron. Even HTG.

So, really, Bruce, good job for your accomplishments this year. But, please, sir, get your shit together for next year.

4xSBChamps
01-12-2010, 12:48 PM
Impress me, get those stats AND make the playoffs tough guy.

with today's watered-down format, MAKE the playoffs, and screw the personal-statistics!

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 12:50 PM
feed robot is a dick. i think imma go neg rep him. :sofunny:

Texasteel
01-12-2010, 02:02 PM
sorry XT but you must have had me on ignore for the past 3 years. my record speaks for itself and goes WAY back to the drafting of matt spaeth and defending arians to that moron LITP.

i have been a huge arians backer until he finally jumped the shark with his kooky playcalling in cleveland.

that was the final straw. ive been a HUGE tomlin supporter to, which is why i expect him to have told arians shape up or ship out cause that is what needed to be done a while back.

anyways my posts are on record. selective memory serve nobody any good.

To be honest I can remember Tony backing BA even at the begining of this year.
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support.

4xSBChamps
01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support...

... and obviously opened lotsa eyes...

X-Terminator
01-12-2010, 02:10 PM
sorry XT but you must have had me on ignore for the past 3 years. my record speaks for itself and goes WAY back to the drafting of matt spaeth and defending arians to that moron LITP.

i have been a huge arians backer until he finally jumped the shark with his kooky playcalling in cleveland.

that was the final straw. ive been a HUGE tomlin supporter to, which is why i expect him to have told arians shape up or ship out cause that is what needed to be done a while back.

anyways my posts are on record. selective memory serve nobody any good.

In fairness, I will give you that. That Cleveland game still pisses me off, but it hasn't completely soured me on Arians the way it has for so many others. Does he have issues to address? Of course. And if he addresses those issues, this offense will really take off - I'm convinced of that.

I still think, though, that many of the negative feelings toward him around here are quite irrational.

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 02:12 PM
To be honest I can remember Tony backing BA even at the begining of this year.
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support.

He didn't lose my support. ONE GAME. If one (or a few) poor performances costs a player or a coach fan support, I don't really believe they were fans in the first place. JMHO. Sorry.

Texasteel
01-12-2010, 02:24 PM
He didn't lose my support. ONE GAME. If one (or a few) poor performances costs a player or a coach fan support, I don't really believe they were fans in the first place. JMHO. Sorry.

No, there are still a few of us around. Even though I was pretty irritate for a little while.

ricardisimo
01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
He didn't lose my support. ONE GAME. If one (or a few) poor performances costs a player or a coach fan support, I don't really believe they were fans in the first place. JMHO. Sorry.

I'll toot my own horn and say that my opinion of him after the Cleveland game was exactly what it was well before it: he should coordinate, but not call plays.

Has anyone see any of the "insiders" discuss that option? That he have play-calling duties taken away? Even a wiff of a suggestion of a hint of that? I still say he can do a great job of getting the boys ready for game time, certainly better than Lebeau did... at least this year.

zulater
01-12-2010, 02:49 PM
To be honest I can remember Tony backing BA even at the begining of this year.
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support.

I jumped off the wagon empty back set, first and goal at the Chiefs 9. :mad: I still don't see why you uneccessarily tip your hand like that? :banging:

But that's all water under the dam. Here's hoping Bruce has his best year ever in 2010. :drink:

ricardisimo
01-12-2010, 02:52 PM
But that's all water under the dam. Here's hoping Bruce has his best year ever in 2010. :drink:

More like water under the DAMN!!! Still, point taken. This year may have been exactly what we needed. Cheers. :drink:

WH
01-12-2010, 03:35 PM
He didn't lose my support. ONE GAME. If one (or a few) poor performances costs a player or a coach fan support, I don't really believe they were fans in the first place. JMHO. Sorry.

I could swear that you said something to the affect of ''he can go'' right after that game.

If there weren't 50,000,000 Arians threads, I would look it up. But I don't have time to read that much. And if I'm wrong, ok.

Texasteel
01-12-2010, 04:21 PM
I could swear that you said something to the affect of ''he can go'' right after that game.

If there weren't 50,000,000 Arians threads, I would look it up. But I don't have time to read that much. And if I'm wrong, ok.

No, I remember that game and that game thread very well. I believe what she said was if they did let him go she wouldn't say anything. Besides you can't hold what anyone said against them after that game.

BA still does have support here, by more people than you probably think. I think next year that number will grow.

WH
01-12-2010, 04:26 PM
No, I remember that game and that game thread very well. I believe what she said was if they did let him go she wouldn't say anything. Besides you can't hold what anyone said against them after that game.

You have a point, I would like to retract that statement then.

BA still does have support here, by more people than you probably think. I think next year that number will grow. I hope that number grows so it accounts for every member of the board. Because if that happens, that means he turned the offense into something that would rival the 1999 Rams.

Dino 6 Rings
01-12-2010, 04:46 PM
I have criticized the red zone offense. I have criticized the empty sets in the red zone. I have criticized going shotgun on 3rd and short. I have criticized the game plan for the Cleveland game. I have criticized some of his situational playcalling. I have criticized not using a fullback in the offense. I have supported more balance in the offense and more commitment to the running game. And I have done so repeatedly.

So when can I expect you, Tony and the rest of the NBBFers to show a little bit more fairness and acknowledge some of the good things he's done with the offense? That, too, would go a long way towards mending the fences.

I liked when Bruce put that Legersky fella into the backfield in goal line situations and slammed the ball into the endzone.

One Fence Post up for the NBBFers :thumbsup:

Dino 6 Rings
01-12-2010, 04:48 PM
In fairness, I will give you that. That Cleveland game still pisses me off, but it hasn't completely soured me on Arians the way it has for so many others. Does he have issues to address? Of course. And if he addresses those issues, this offense will really take off - I'm convinced of that.

I still think, though, that many of the negative feelings toward him around here are quite irrational.

Technically...I've been peeved off since the INT against the Colts prior the half in the game LAST season...

but to put things in perspective....I'm still mad at Neil for the 2nd Int too...Really Neil...the same freaking guy? Twice? Really?

Aussie_steeler
01-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Yeah that would go a long way towards mending the fences. :thmbup:

When we mend the fence can we please make it a little more comfortable. Its a little uncomfortable on the butt sitting on this current fence. But it is a great position to view the dialouge from. ( in my defence I only got to see 4 games all year and only 1 was a tragic loss --- the cleveland game. so I dont have a lot of evidence to go on to be strongly pro or anti arians.)

As a draft geek I am continually trying to think what personnel Arians may well be asking for next draft. I know it is a whole FO effort but Arians will get his chance to have a say.

1. Does a #2 RB exist on the current roster ( resign FWP, promote his replacement or draft a replacement) and will they be a speed back or a short yardage chain mover

2. Does a #2 TE exist on the current roster (resign Spaeth, promote from depth chart or draft)

3. What will the 2010 fullback philosophy be and does that player currently exist on the roster ( Davis vs Summers vs McHugh vs Johnson)

4. Future of the #4 WR - Sweeds status, practice squad talent or draft material.

I think I could guess from his 2009 philosophy but I think the 2010 offensive philosophy may have a lot more external influence.



I can sense some progress being made towards greater unity in these threads. Arians will be the OC in 2010 and it is time that we look forward to next season and the excitement it brings with the potential of another superbowl.:thumbsup:

MACH1
01-12-2010, 06:27 PM
To be honest I can remember Tony backing BA even at the begining of this year.
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support.

Yep...I think that was about it for me.

Anyways, next is a new season and we'll see what happens.

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 06:51 PM
i will throw out a fence post. wallace appears to be one of our finest rookie draft picks since big ben. definitely on offense, and he has upheld the standard miller and holmes set before him (not bad for a third rounder).

now the bad news....



As a draft geek I am continually trying to think what personnel Arians may well be asking for next draft. I know it is a whole FO effort but Arians will get his chance to have a say.

ughhh. :doh: i dread this. maybe he shouldnt have any say whatsoever. kinda reminds me of the child constantly asking for a new toy and the parent has to remind them how they dont even play with the toys they got.

arians has been given plenty, and at this point i think he has failed.

spaeth- 3rd round pick. 2nd te taken behind greg olsen i believe. excellent hands. all we heard arians say was his 3 te set and how we would be able to line up in any formation and do anything out of it just like the patriots, whether it be 3 te or 5 wide.
spaeth had 2 td's in his 1st 2 professional games. 3 of his first 4 receptions were for touchdowns, yet he finished the season with only 5 receptions.

he only has 27 rec in 3 years, and blocking is the weakest part of his game. yet the 2 games he was forced to start for miller last season he had 6 receptions in each for 50+ yds in each.

he has hands, is 6'7" and has shown consistancy. why the hell have we not thrown to him in the red zone in 3 years? what is wrong with lining up inside the 5 with 2wr/2te/ and 1 rb and sneaking one to who was supposed to be a new lethal red zone target?

ben wanted a tall target right? that brings me to-

sweed- 6'4" great hands. many regarded him as the best wr to be drafted in his class before he broke his hand. ben got what he wanted but hasnt been developed or even used for 2 years. sat on the shelf gathering dust.

mendenhall- regarded by many as the top prospect at his position. atleast top 3. this usually means you got a bell cow. we heard about the pony backfield, extending willies career, having a double dose of running to kill the opponents, a powerful in between the tackles runner :blah: = and underutilized back. i have a feeling arians woulda secretly rather had felix jones even though we dont have a marion barber.

urbick/hills- dont even get me started.

as for the fullback dilemma, his offense doesnt have one yet we have 4 posers trying to be one. mchugh, johnson, davis, summers, (throw in legursky). why do we need 11 or so players who can play TE or FB, yet our special teams suffers when we let go of madison?

:screwy: it completely baffles me and leaves me wanting to pull out my hair.

devilsdancefloor
01-12-2010, 06:55 PM
To be honest I can remember Tony backing BA even at the begining of this year.
That damn Cleveland game cost Arians a lot of support.

that is when i lost a lot of respect for his offense. As brillant of a game he called in denver he went to KC & cleveland and lost a lot of respect from a lot of fans. he will have to earn that back in spades. But here is to next year being another SB:tt04::tt04::tt04:

MasterOfPuppets
01-12-2010, 07:08 PM
i will throw out a fence post. wallace appears to be one of our finest rookie draft picks since big ben. definitely on offense, and he has upheld the standard miller and holmes set before him (not bad for a third rounder).

now the bad news....

ughhh. :doh: i dread this. maybe he shouldnt have any say whatsoever. kinda reminds me of the child constantly asking for a new toy and the parent has to remind them how they dont even play with the toys they got.

arians has been given plenty, and at this point i think he has failed.

spaeth- 3rd round pick. 2nd te taken behind greg olsen i believe. excellent hands. all we heard arians say was his 3 te set and how we would be able to line up in any formation and do anything out of it just like the patriots, whether it be 3 te or 5 wide.
spaeth had 2 td's in his 1st 2 professional games. 3 of his first 4 receptions were for touchdowns, yet he finished the season with only 5 receptions.

he only has 27 rec in 3 years, and blocking is the weakest part of his game. yet the 2 games he was forced to start for miller last season he had 6 receptions in each for 50+ yds in each.

he has hands, is 6'7" and has shown consistancy. why the hell have we not thrown to him in the red zone in 3 years? what is wrong with lining up inside the 5 with 2wr/2te/ and 1 rb and sneaking one to who was supposed to be a new lethal red zone target?

ben wanted a tall target right? that brings me to-

sweed- 6'4" great hands. many regarded him as the best wr to be drafted in his class before he broke his hand. ben got what he wanted but hasnt been developed or even used for 2 years. sat on the shelf gathering dust.

mendenhall- regarded by many as the top prospect at his position. atleast top 3. this usually means you got a bell cow. we heard about the pony backfield, extending willies career, having a double dose of running to kill the opponents, a powerful in between the tackles runner :blah: = and underutilized back. i have a feeling arians woulda secretly rather had felix jones even though we dont have a marion barber.

urbick/hills- dont even get me started.

as for the fullback dilemma, his offense doesnt have one yet we have 4 posers trying to be one. mchugh, johnson, davis, summers, (throw in legursky). why do we need 11 or so players who can play TE or FB, yet our special teams suffers when we let go of madison?

:screwy: it completely baffles me and leaves me wanting to pull out my hair.
excellent post ...all very valid points...:thumbsup:

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 07:39 PM
I could swear that you said something to the affect of ''he can go'' right after that game.

If there weren't 50,000,000 Arians threads, I would look it up. But I don't have time to read that much. And if I'm wrong, ok.

You're wrong and it's OK. :drink:

What I did say was that I implicitly trust the judgment of the Steelers FO and if they felt replacing him was in the team's best interests, I would be OK with it and support whoever took his place. Obviouisly, that didn't happen, so I will continue to support BA. :thumbsup:

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 07:42 PM
http://www.milazzorestaurant.com/Portals/0/images/two-hearts.jpg

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 07:45 PM
excellent post ...all very valid points...:thumbsup:

oh... i almost forgot, arians biggest weapon he was given and neglected. he was given dennis dixon, who appearantly was the next cribbs.

and even though arians believes in every other offens under the sun, he doesnt believe in wildcat. LOL :sofunny:

all kidding aside, i may be the only one who finds mchughs and summers mystery season ending ailments a bit fishy. it reeks of complete indecisiveness when the final cuts came down. not knowing who to keep and being afraid to cut the wrong guy.

nope... give this years draft to tomlin and lebeau and keep arians out of it. if he doesnt have enough tools by now, he never will.

i happened to like seeing lebeaus 1st 2 weapons under tomlin rack up 20 of the teams 47 sacks this season.

now THAT is utilizing, developing, and getting maximum production out of the weapons one is given.

psusteelers4life
01-12-2010, 07:59 PM
Does anyone else miss Danny Kreider?? also well said by Tony in the above post.

mesaSteeler
01-12-2010, 08:06 PM
The reasons the Steelers are keeping Bruce Arians
January 12, 9:53 AMPittsburgh Sports Examiner
Matt Pawlikowski
http://www.examiner.com/x-2703-Pittsburgh-Sports-Examiner~y2010m1d12-The-reasons-the-Steelers-are-keeping-Bruce-Arians

The second part in a series about offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

NOTE: This is the second in a series about Steeler offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and why or why not he should go.

There are many out there in Steeler Nation questioning why the Steelers have retained Bruce Arians as offensive coordinator.

Predictable, unimaginative, looking to pad his resume are intangibles that come to mind as the first reasons he should go.

But one has to remember, there is a reason the Steelers have enjoyed success over the years, and it’s the way the organization does things.

While the verdict is still out on head coach Mike Tomlin, the Rooney’s have been around the game of football for many years and despite the dawn of free-agency have managed to keep the team competitive year in and out.

While Dan Rooney is now in Ireland as the United States Ambassador, like his father, his son Art II is also saavy. Yes, sources have said that he, along with many others in the front office were unhappy with Arians abandonment of the rush attack and play selection in 2009, but one has to remember the Rooney’s have never been ones to rush to fire coaches who are still under contract.

Two other reasons come to mind as to why Arians is staying, the first being a history lesson from the Bill Cowher years.

When Cowher took over, most of Chuck Noll’s staff was gone, so he brought in Ron Erhardt who was demoted in New York after a successful run there, which included two Super Bowls.

Like Tomlin, Cowher was defensive minded so he handed the reins to Erhardt and the team was successful. They went to the AFC Championship game twice in that period, and lost the Super Bowl to Dallas.

Despite making it to the Super Bowl for the first time since 1980, Cowher fired Erhardt after the season.

Part of this was due to the fact he was unhappy with some of the play-calling and schematics of the offense. The other was that he had Chan Gailey on staff, who was much younger and a hot commodity. Under Gailey, the Steelers continued their success, but after just two years of calling plays, Gailey left to take the Cowboys head coaching job.

The next three years the team went through two coordinators in Ray Sherman and Kevin Gilbride. For the first time in the Cowher era, they missed the playoffs and did so the next three years.

So when it comes to retaining Arians, continuity seems to play a role here, not one year of missing the playoffs. After all, it’s happened to other Super Bowl winners and the Steelers still were above .500.

The next is his relationship with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. One can say what they want about Arians, but under his guidance the Steeler signal caller has experienced two of his best seasons.

It was Roethlisberger, who by many reports had a big factor in saving Arians job. Roethlisberger is comfortable with Arians, since he was in Pittsburgh for three seasons as the wide receivers coach before his promotion to offensive coordinator.

Again, continuity.

While it is scarey that Roethlisberger weilds that much power, for arguement sake, need we say more than Kordell Stewart?

Roethlisberger is no Stewart, who had a huge problem with leadership and grasping systems, but Stewart also had four coordinators in Sherman, Gilbride, Gailey and Mike Mularkey.

Only under Mularkey, who had been with the team for five years prior, did Stewart have success. The key? He had a familiarity with Mularkey and didn’t have to learn yet another scheme.

Still what is bothersome about retaining Arians is the fact when he took over the job, he pretty much admitted to tossing out the playbook which had proven successful since the Chuck Noll days. It was one with some tweaks along the way that paved the road to the Steelers success.

He had said at the time of his hiring that his offensive scheme would be similar to Whisenhut’s, which obviously it has not and he said he was a proponent of running the football.

Tomlin also said this, but we’ve yet to see it happen.

43Hitman
01-12-2010, 08:33 PM
Yep...I think that was about it for me.

Anyways, next is a new season and we'll see what happens.

I used to back him up until that game as well. Still pisses me off thinking about the chances they let slip through their fingers.

:banging:

43Hitman
01-12-2010, 08:37 PM
i will throw out a fence post. wallace appears to be one of our finest rookie draft picks since big ben. definitely on offense, and he has upheld the standard miller and holmes set before him (not bad for a third rounder).

now the bad news....

ughhh. :doh: i dread this. maybe he shouldnt have any say whatsoever. kinda reminds me of the child constantly asking for a new toy and the parent has to remind them how they dont even play with the toys they got.

arians has been given plenty, and at this point i think he has failed.

spaeth- 3rd round pick. 2nd te taken behind greg olsen i believe. excellent hands. all we heard arians say was his 3 te set and how we would be able to line up in any formation and do anything out of it just like the patriots, whether it be 3 te or 5 wide.
spaeth had 2 td's in his 1st 2 professional games. 3 of his first 4 receptions were for touchdowns, yet he finished the season with only 5 receptions.

he only has 27 rec in 3 years, and blocking is the weakest part of his game. yet the 2 games he was forced to start for miller last season he had 6 receptions in each for 50+ yds in each.

he has hands, is 6'7" and has shown consistancy. why the hell have we not thrown to him in the red zone in 3 years? what is wrong with lining up inside the 5 with 2wr/2te/ and 1 rb and sneaking one to who was supposed to be a new lethal red zone target?

ben wanted a tall target right? that brings me to-

sweed- 6'4" great hands. many regarded him as the best wr to be drafted in his class before he broke his hand. ben got what he wanted but hasnt been developed or even used for 2 years. sat on the shelf gathering dust.

mendenhall- regarded by many as the top prospect at his position. atleast top 3. this usually means you got a bell cow. we heard about the pony backfield, extending willies career, having a double dose of running to kill the opponents, a powerful in between the tackles runner :blah: = and underutilized back. i have a feeling arians woulda secretly rather had felix jones even though we dont have a marion barber.

urbick/hills- dont even get me started.

as for the fullback dilemma, his offense doesnt have one yet we have 4 posers trying to be one. mchugh, johnson, davis, summers, (throw in legursky). why do we need 11 or so players who can play TE or FB, yet our special teams suffers when we let go of madison?

:screwy: it completely baffles me and leaves me wanting to pull out my hair.

:applaudit: :drink:

Glace
01-12-2010, 09:47 PM
Roethlisberger is no Stewart, who had a huge problem with leadership and grasping systems, but Stewart also had four coordinators in Sherman, Gilbride, Gailey and Mike Mularkey.

Only under Mularkey, who had been with the team for five years prior, did Stewart have success. The key? He had a familiarity with Mularkey and didn’t have to learn yet another scheme.


Oh...is that what was wrong with Kordell and why I hated him so much? :sofunny:

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 10:33 PM
Still what is bothersome about retaining Arians is the fact when he took over the job, he pretty much admitted to tossing out the playbook which had proven successful since the Chuck Noll days. It was one with some tweaks along the way that paved the road to the Steelers success.

He had said at the time of his hiring that his offensive scheme would be similar to Whisenhut’s, which obviously it has not and he said he was a proponent of running the football.this may come as a suprise since for some strange reason i have been branded as the torquemada of the arians inqusition, but i gotta defend bruce on this one.

he did not throw out the steelers playbook. what he did was sit down with ben and a 1000+ page smorgasbord of plays that had been accumulated in about 2 decades and multiple coordinators, and streamline it.

together they sat down and figured out which were the best plays and the plays that had not, nor wouldnt be, used in years. they trimmed all the fat that had accumulated under the multitude of coordinators cowher had in 15 years. they came up what was best for ben and what he was most comfortable with. i am cool with that. and commend arians for that.

what i am not cool with is tossing out the g-power play along with faneca. that play had been our bread and butter play for years. the jets are still running it (with much success i might add). kemoeatu was actually beginning to make a name for himself using it this season.

what i am cool with is the banana bunch wr group fomation. i think it is unique, and innovative and imaginative. i think it was phil simms commenting on it earlier during a game saying he is suprise no other teams have tried to adopt or incorporate it, given its success. (perhaps those are just left over formations from his days with erhardt, that survived the chopping table, when ben and arians did their playbook dissection).

now the part of arians being similar to wiz, and a proponent of the running game is less defendable. true, it is hard to call ken a proponent right now based on the stats of his team... the cardinals dont run much and much like the steelers (or cardinals) last year, i think that has alot to do with the tools he has to work with. but he did draft beanie wells, and he is using him.

arians did run the ball in 2007. ben rewarded him by throwing a career high in td's and breaking the steelers single season td passing record. in 2008, we were down to carey davis, and then m. moore as our lone healthy back. 2008 gets a pass. in 2009, the dedication to the run was nothing that resembled what wisenhunt had established in 2004 and 2005.

wiz most certainly wants to run the ball and control the clock. with the monster.com resume arians was writing this season, i cant say the same for him.

im hoping 2010 proves different.

Dino 6 Rings
01-13-2010, 08:34 AM
Good Job Tony, fence post for you!

NBBFers For Life!

vrabinec
01-13-2010, 09:35 AM
In fairness, I will give you that. That Cleveland game still pisses me off, but it hasn't completely soured me on Arians the way it has for so many others. Does he have issues to address? Of course. And if he addresses those issues, this offense will really take off - I'm convinced of that.

I still think, though, that many of the negative feelings toward him around here are quite irrational.

I think there's a sense that "something was wrong" and since the plays failed and we had Ben, Wallace, Hines, Holmes, Heath, etc...the assumption is that the wrong play was called. But I find it interesting that, in the games we won, we ran the ball 31.5% of the time, and in the games we lost, we ran the ball 42.7% of the time, yet so many of us feel that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough.

IMO, it's not that the Steelers didn't run it enough, it's that they didn't run it efficiently when they lost. At first we didn't play Mendenhall, and Mendy is the only one you can blame for that, because I saw him in camp and he had taken a step back and didn't know what the hell he was suppoed to be doing. Can't lay that at Arians' or Tomlins' feet. Then once he got rolling, Kemoeatu got hurt and we didn't have a good run blocking guard as a backup, that I blame Colbert for. In the games Kemo played and was healthy, Mendenhall ran it 154 times for 792 yards 5.1 y/a. In the games Kemo missed and the Cleveland game in which he was clearly playing hurt when he shouldn't have been in there, Mendy had 88 carries for 316 yards 3.6y/a.

So, IMO, if Kemo doesn't get hurt or the Steelers have a decent backup, at least the calibre of Stapleton or someone like that, then they win the Cleveland and Ravens game. If Mendy comes into the year ready, then we win the Bears game. We finish with our typical 12-4 and we're headed to San Diego this weekend, and probably favored.

I don't like some of wha Arians does, and I honestly believe there are better coordinators out there, who could get more out of the talent we have on this roster, but Arians isn't the worst out there, and if not for a couple bad breaks, would be going for his second ring right now.

zulater
01-13-2010, 10:02 AM
I think there's a sense that "something was wrong" and since the plays failed and we had Ben, Wallace, Hines, Holmes, Heath, etc...the assumption is that the wrong play was called. But I find it interesting that, in the games we won, we ran the ball 31.5% of the time, and in the games we lost, we ran the ball 42.7% of the time, yet so many of us feel that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough.

IMO, it's not that the Steelers didn't run it enough, it's that they didn't run it efficiently when they lost. At first we didn't play Mendenhall, and Mendy is the only one you can blame for that, because I saw him in camp and he had taken a step back and didn't know what the hell he was suppoed to be doing. Can't lay that at Arians' or Tomlins' feet.

The real shame of it was (imo) that early in the season, before Mendy was ready, Parker was clearly not right. Had Willie had the legs he was showing in the last couple games of the season then I think the early losses to the Bears and Bengals could have been avoided. We just didn't have an effecitve enough running games for those two Sundays to finish them off. In other words the defense would have never been in position to lose those two games (imo again) if Willie had been up to speed at the time.


Then once he got rolling, Kemoeatu got hurt and we didn't have a good run blocking guard as a backup, that I blame Colbert for. In the games Kemo played and was healthy, Mendenhall ran it 154 times for 792 yards 5.1 y/a. In the games Kemo missed and the Cleveland game in which he was clearly playing hurt when he shouldn't have been in there, Mendy had 88 carries for 316 yards 3.6y/a.

Nice fact finding vrab. :thumbsup:

So, IMO, if Kemo doesn't get hurt or the Steelers have a decent backup, at least the calibre of Stapleton or someone like that, then they win the Cleveland and Ravens game. If Mendy comes into the year ready, then we win the Bears game. We finish with our typical 12-4 and we're headed to San Diego this weekend, and probably favored.

We all hope. :tt03:

I don't like some of wha Arians does, and I honestly believe there are better coordinators out there, who could get more out of the talent we have on this roster, but Arians isn't the worst out there, and if not for a couple bad breaks, would be going for his second ring right now.

Good points all around vrab, don't disagree with anything you say.

X-Terminator
01-13-2010, 10:27 AM
I think there's a sense that "something was wrong" and since the plays failed and we had Ben, Wallace, Hines, Holmes, Heath, etc...the assumption is that the wrong play was called. But I find it interesting that, in the games we won, we ran the ball 31.5% of the time, and in the games we lost, we ran the ball 42.7% of the time, yet so many of us feel that the Steelers didn't run the ball enough.

IMO, it's not that the Steelers didn't run it enough, it's that they didn't run it efficiently when they lost. At first we didn't play Mendenhall, and Mendy is the only one you can blame for that, because I saw him in camp and he had taken a step back and didn't know what the hell he was suppoed to be doing. Can't lay that at Arians' or Tomlins' feet. Then once he got rolling, Kemoeatu got hurt and we didn't have a good run blocking guard as a backup, that I blame Colbert for. In the games Kemo played and was healthy, Mendenhall ran it 154 times for 792 yards 5.1 y/a. In the games Kemo missed and the Cleveland game in which he was clearly playing hurt when he shouldn't have been in there, Mendy had 88 carries for 316 yards 3.6y/a.

So, IMO, if Kemo doesn't get hurt or the Steelers have a decent backup, at least the calibre of Stapleton or someone like that, then they win the Cleveland and Ravens game. If Mendy comes into the year ready, then we win the Bears game. We finish with our typical 12-4 and we're headed to San Diego this weekend, and probably favored.

I don't like some of wha Arians does, and I honestly believe there are better coordinators out there, who could get more out of the talent we have on this roster, but Arians isn't the worst out there, and if not for a couple bad breaks, would be going for his second ring right now.

Solid post and observations, vrabinec. I don't care if they are a pass-first offense, so long as when they DO run it, they are effective at it, especially when they need to close out games.

PalmerSteel
01-13-2010, 10:45 AM
BA has one more year to show improvement, IMO. if our YARDS PER RUSH doesnt increase and short yard rush improve, he is gone. like posted above, this has nothing to do with how many times we rush vs. pass.

Prok
01-13-2010, 10:58 AM
BA has one more year to show improvement, IMO. if our YARDS PER RUSH doesnt increase and short yard rush improve, he is gone. like posted above, this has nothing to do with how many times we rush vs. pass.

Add red zone offense to that list. :wink02: