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Rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Ken Laird reporting on ESPN radio right now that BA is officially outta here!!! HELL YEAH BABY!!!!:

Rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 02:22 PM
He stated that Tomlin didn't like the 60/40 pass/run ratio. And he was very unhappy with situational football. As well as all the sacks. Now, where have I heard that before?


Rockon

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 02:32 PM
I won't believe it till Florio says so on PFT.

7SteelGal43
01-05-2010, 02:35 PM
:thumbsup:












that is all.

OX1947
01-05-2010, 02:36 PM
He stated that Tomlin didn't like the 60/40 pass/run ratio. And he was very unhappy with situational football. As well as all the sacks. Now, where have I heard that before?


Rockon

I'm not an Arians apologist by any means and I do agree that he should be replaced because he does lack in creativity, but if Tomlin wanted to solve the 60/40 ratio, maybe he should have been a head coach and make Arians do what he wanted to do. And also, if he wants to cut down on sacks, he may need to talk to Big Ben a little as well.

Steelers need a O-coor who can mold Ben into a more healthy way of playing. 50 sacks a year will cut his career short by 3 or 4 years. If you do not believe me, go watch Steve McNair play. he last 11 years. Good by NFL standards, but a great QB should be able to play 14 to 15 years like Elway, Montana, Marino and Favre.

Rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 02:41 PM
I'm not an Arians apologist by any means and I do agree that he should be replaced because he does lack in creativity, but if Tomlin wanted to solve the 60/40 ratio, maybe he should have been a head coach and make Arians do what he wanted to do. And also, if he wants to cut down on sacks, he may need to talk to Big Ben a little as well.

Steelers need a O-coor who can mold Ben into a more healthy way of playing. 50 sacks a year will cut his career short by 3 or 4 years. If you do not believe me, go watch Steve McNair play. he last 11 years. Good by NFL standards, but a great QB should be able to play 14 to 15 years like Elway, Montana, Marino and Favre.

I had posted a couple weeks back that there was a rumor that Arians supposedly had a clause in his contract that only Art II could fire him. Supposedly put in place with Cowhers' help since he and BA were tight. Of course, I don't know for sure if that's the case, but if true, that would tie MT hands pretty good.


Rockon

MACH1
01-05-2010, 02:42 PM
I won't believe it till Florio says so on PFT.

Or a used car salesman.

steelpride12
01-05-2010, 02:42 PM
Well I guess we all saw this one coming. Some people liked him, some didn't. Lets just find the right person to fill the role.

4xSBChamps
01-05-2010, 02:43 PM
... if Tomlin wanted to solve the 60/40 ratio, maybe he should have been a head coach and make Arians do what he wanted to do. ..

Buccaneer Head Coach Morris fired his OC 10 days before the season-opener, then took-over the DC position himself with 5-7 games to play, because he didn't like the way things were going:
jes'-sayin'

plenewken
01-05-2010, 02:44 PM
If it's true, it's the greatest news of the day.

zulater
01-05-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm not an Arians apologist by any means and I do agree that he should be replaced because he does lack in creativity, but if Tomlin wanted to solve the 60/40 ratio, maybe he should have been a head coach and make Arians do what he wanted to do. And also, if he wants to cut down on sacks, he may need to talk to Big Ben a little as well.

Steelers need a O-coor who can mold Ben into a more healthy way of playing. 50 sacks a year will cut his career short by 3 or 4 years. If you do not believe me, go watch Steve McNair play. he last 11 years. Good by NFL standards, but a great QB should be able to play 14 to 15 years like Elway, Montana, Marino and Favre.

As a head coach Tomlin has to act as a CEO. In a case like this his job is to put the right people in place when the right opportunity presents itself. Now is the time to act.

zulater
01-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Buccaneer Head Coach Morris fired his OC 10 days before the season-opener, then took-over the DC position himself with 5-7 games to play, because he didn't like the way things were going:
jes'-sayin'



Tomlin's background is on the other side of the ball. A smart man knows not to bite off more than he can chew.

FacemeIke
01-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Yesssssssss! If this rumor some how turns out to be false I will be so disappointed! I know some around here won't like the decision, but next year when you see all of the talent at its full ability you will be very happy! We could very well go from a good offense to a dominate one.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Well if this is true, then it's definitely his situational football and red zone inefficiencies that got him fired. No one will believe me (even though I've posted this about 100X), but I've complained about both of them all season. I just refused...and still refuse...to place all of the woes of the team at his feet, as many in the "braintrust" have done. Still though, just like with most moves the Steelers make, I trust their judgment 100%, because they know what is best for the team.

Again, IF this is true, I wonder who will replace him?

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 02:53 PM
Florio has it on the rumor mill.


Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future", according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

BigBen'sSwagger
01-05-2010, 02:53 PM
Anybody got any links to this? I will believe it when I see it.

SteelCityMom
01-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Anybody got any links to this? I will believe it when I see it.

I just looked and no news stories on it yet. I'm with you, I'll believe it when I see it.

If it is true I wonder who will be the next OC that Steelers fans can gang up on when they lose a game lol.

zulater
01-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Well if this is true, then it's definitely his situational football and red zone inefficiencies that got him fired. No one will believe me (even though I've posted this about 100X), but I've complained about both of them all season. I just refused...and still refuse...to place all of the woes of the team at his feet, as many in the "braintrust" have done. Still though, just like with most moves the Steelers make, I trust their judgment 100%, because they know what is best for the team.

Again, IF this is true, I wonder who will replace him?

I don't and never have placed all the blame on Bruce. But I also never saw him as more than a C+ coach. I think they owe themselves better than that.

I've tried to give Arains the benifit of the doubt in the past, but he forever lost me on first and goal from the Chiefs 9 when he went empty back set. :mad:

4xSBChamps
01-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Tomlin's background is on the other side of the ball. A smart man knows not to bite off more than he can chew.

That's a given, but, 'IF' as-stated earlier, that Tomlin didn't like the 60-pass/40-run ratio, nor did he like the situational-football, he could've 'strongly-hinted' that we should run the ball more-often, line-up with a running-back on 3rd & short, etc., then leave the details to the OC

FacemeIke
01-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Well if this is true, then it's definitely his situational football and red zone inefficiencies that got him fired. No one will believe me (even though I've posted this about 100X), but I've complained about both of them all season. I just refused...and still refuse...to place all of the woes of the team at his feet, as many in the "braintrust" have done. Still though, just like with most moves the Steelers make, I trust their judgment 100%, because they know what is best for the team.

Again, IF this is true, I wonder who will replace him?



Well said. I would also add his inability to make mid-game adjustments to that list as well. In my opinion this O becomes one of the top 3 or 4 in the league with the right OC.

Carolina Steelers
01-05-2010, 03:00 PM
http://kdka.com/

Looks like its official

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 03:01 PM
If it is true I wonder who will be the next OC that Steelers fans can gang up on when they lose a game lol.

That is almost guaranteed to happen. The OC is always right behind the HC when it comes to being fired by the fans. In fact, I can't remember a single one that the fans haven't constantly gotten on over the past 15 years or so.

I don't and never have placed all the blame on Bruce. But I also never saw him as more than a C+ coach. I think they owe themselves better than that.

I've tried to give Arains the benifit of the doubt in the past, but he forever lost me on first and goal from the Chiefs 9 when he went empty back set. :mad:

Well, many do. All you have to do is read all of the posts blaming the O not scoring enough points for the problems with the D.

KeiselPower99
01-05-2010, 03:01 PM
I dont blame all the offensive problems on Arians and I supported him until the Cleveland game. We have a top 5 qb and he likes to throw the ball. I think we wont see a new offense next year itll be a more towards the run like 55-45 differance. Simply the playcalling and non adjustments to the gameplan came into effect here.

xfl2001fan
01-05-2010, 03:04 PM
I'm not an Arians apologist by any means and I do agree that he should be replaced because he does lack in creativity, but if Tomlin wanted to solve the 60/40 ratio, maybe he should have been a head coach and make Arians do what he wanted to do. And also, if he wants to cut down on sacks, he may need to talk to Big Ben a little as well.

Steelers need a O-coor who can mold Ben into a more healthy way of playing. 50 sacks a year will cut his career short by 3 or 4 years. If you do not believe me, go watch Steve McNair play. he last 11 years. Good by NFL standards, but a great QB should be able to play 14 to 15 years like Elway, Montana, Marino and Favre.

Bingo...the head coach should have final say...if not, he's not much of a head coach.

That being said...Elway was sacked a lot like Big Ben has been sacked...especially in the initial part of his career. The biggest difference is that Big Ben won the first two SB he was in...Elway needed a few more tries.

SteelerEmpire
01-05-2010, 03:05 PM
You got 2 B freggin kiddin me ??? I have to jump back an pinch myself !!!!!!!!

mmalone
01-05-2010, 03:06 PM
To bad we lost a season over this loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report: Steelers Fire OC Bruce Arians
Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh reports, via ProFootballTalk.com, that the Pittsburgh Steelers will fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

Arians joined the Steelers' coaching staff in 2004 and has coordinated the offense for the last three seasons. During those years, the offense has ranked 17th (2007), 22nd (2008) and this year ranked 7th, but the running game struggled with consistency and the bulk of those yards, and the offense's success, was dependent on Ben Roethlisberger's right arm.

No announcement has been made the team, and Mike Tomlin did not make mention of Arians' firing during today's press conference, so stay tuned.


Bye Bye

BigBen'sSwagger
01-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Whaaa Whooo!!!

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Well if this is true, then it's definitely his situational football and red zone inefficiencies that got him fired. No one will believe me (even though I've posted this about 100X), but I've complained about both of them all season. I just refused...and still refuse...to place all of the woes of the team at his feet, as many in the "braintrust" have done. Still though, just like with most moves the Steelers make, I trust their judgment 100%, because they know what is best for the team.

Again, IF this is true, I wonder who will replace him?



Exactly.

He wasn't the best, he wasn't the worst. The Browns game exposed him as too pigheaded. The last three games showed what would happen if he would be flexible. By then it was too late. I thought that it might give him one more year, but I guess not.

On to the next guy! Let's just hope the next guy doesn't try to change everything about Ben.

Balanced football baby.

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Still nothing "official"

Make it so

http://endofbench.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/feetpopping.jpg

mmalone
01-05-2010, 03:09 PM
I dont blame all the offensive problems on Arians and I supported him until the Cleveland game. We have a top 5 qb and he likes to throw the ball. I think we wont see a new offense next year itll be a more towards the run like 55-45 differance. Simply the playcalling and non adjustments to the gameplan came into effect here.

You mean last years cleveland game.... we won 10-6

or this year when we lost 13-6

???

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 03:09 PM
If it is true I wonder who will be the next OC that Steelers fans can gang up on when they lose a game lol.

Exactly. :shake02:

Though I think the man was unfairly scapegoated, I'm OK with it, I've said it before - I trust the Steelers FO's judgment implicitly.

ANY POSTS MADE TAKING SHOTS AT THOSE OF US WHO SUPPORTED MR. ARIANS WILL BE DELETED.

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 03:09 PM
Ok...what about Zeirlein and Ligashesky. How on earth are they keeping their jobs?

KeiselPower99
01-05-2010, 03:10 PM
You mean last years cleveland game.... we won 10-6

or this year when we lost 13-6

???

This years. 42 pass attempts in a night like that was just stupid.

Kvnfaber
01-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Things I hope for:

Balance

A FB on 3rd an 1.

We have enough talent to be a top 5 scoring offense, lets hope we find someone who can utilize it to its fullest potential.

zulater
01-05-2010, 03:10 PM
That is almost guaranteed to happen. The OC is always right behind the HC when it comes to being fired by the fans. In fact, I can't remember a single one that the fans haven't constantly gotten on over the past 15 years or so.



.

I honestly don't remember the majority of Steelers fans that I know that had a problem with Ken Whisenhunt when he was in that position. In fact coming off a disappointing season (8-8 in 06) many Steeler fans wanted and expected Whiz to take the helm in place of Cowher.

Also I remember Chan Gailey and before him Ron Earhardt were generally popular with the fans.

So I suppose i have to disagree with you here.

Generally speaking the better the coach the better the support amongst the fans, thus the continued support for LeBeau following a down season.

tyler289
01-05-2010, 03:11 PM
Ligashesky should be the first to go...Arians wasn't terrible, but I welcome a fresh face to the OC spot if he is indeed gone.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Things I hope for:

Balance

A FB on 3rd an 1.

We have enough talent to be a top 5 scoring offense, lets hope we find someone who can utilize it to its fullest potential.

This years. 42 pass attempts in a night like that was just stupid.

I have to agree with both of those statements. Honestly, that Browns game did it for me.

Then watching the last three games, I was quite impressed.

What that tells me however, is that Arians was probably FORCED to change things up some.

Rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:13 PM
You mean last years cleveland game.... we won 10-6

or this year when we lost 13-6

???


He could be talking about the other Browns game from this year, where we won 10-7. Pick your choice.

Hell, for all we know, dumbass BA left a copy of his playbook in Cleveland when he left years ago, and they knew exactly what he was going to do. Oh...wait, you don't need his playbook to know exactly what he's gonna do. Nevermind.


Rockon

xstang102
01-05-2010, 03:14 PM
I think the D and special teams sould have been addressed first! The offense was the last of my worries. The offense didn't lose 5 games in the 4th quarter. I'd like to see a little better running game, but I think that is the lack of talent on the O-Line.:doh:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I think the D and special teams sould have been addressed first! The offense was the last of my worries. The offense didn't lose 5 games in the 4th quarter. I'd like to see a little better running game, but I think that is the lack of talent on the O-Line.:doh:

ST's is definitely my biggest worry, and the swiss cheese D is a big one to.

However, I think Arians and Tomlin have been somewhat at odds since the beginning.

Remember last year's SB? Tomlin is caught on film looking at Arians and saying, "Lets just get the ball in the endzone. How about that?" in a pretty sarcastic voice.

mmalone
01-05-2010, 03:19 PM
I think the D and special teams sould have been addressed first! The offense was the last of my worries. The offense didn't lose 5 games in the 4th quarter. I'd like to see a little better running game, but I think that is the lack of talent on the O-Line.:doh:

3rd and out will lose games fast in the 4th.. 28% rating on 3rd downs.

we saw that in the 2007 jacksonville game. no 3rd downs we lose.

28th or so ranking in the redzone...

bye bye BA

4xSBChamps
01-05-2010, 03:19 PM
That being said...Elway was sacked a lot like Big Ben has been sacked...especially in the initial part of his career. The biggest difference is that Big Ben won the first two SB he was in...Elway needed a few more tries.

Elway never had success in the SB until he had a very-good running game, and Denver was (usually) a pass-first/run-2nd offense until the mid-'90s:
Roethlisberger inherited a ground-game centric offense with Bettis, Parker, and now Mendenhall, which tempted defenses to peek into the Steeler backfield & respect the run

Marino routinely put-up crazy personal passing stats, but for all his self-appointed genius, Shula could never build a serious running-game around the most dominant passer of his time, and the Dolphins suffered for this, as did Dan Fouts with 'Air Coryell' before Marino:
even Kurt Warner & Joe Montana had some respectable running-threat in their best seasons.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:20 PM
3rd and out will lose games fast in the 4th.. 28% rating on 3rd downs.

we saw that in the 2007 jacksonville game. no 3rd downs we lose.

28th or so ranking in the redzone...

bye bye BA

I still have to ask however, when our D allows touchdowns in something like 30 straight redzone trips... MULTIPLE last minute comebacks, and a swiss cheese pass defense, why do all the coaches on D get a pass?

rjb2112
01-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Wait, wait... any posts referencing the Braintrust are now being deleted, yet it was totally cool to use before when it mocked the "right" people?

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
Elway never had success in the SB until he had a very-good running game, and Denver was (usually) a pass-first/run-2nd offense until the mid-'90s:
Roethlisberger inherited a ground-game centric offense with Bettis, Parker, and now Mendenhall, which tempted defenses to peek into the Steeler backfield & respect the run

Marino routinely put-up crazy personal passing stats, but for all his self-appointed genius, Shula could never build a serious running-game around the most dominant passer of his time, and the Dolphins suffered for this, as did Dan Fouts with 'Air Coryell' before Marino:
even Kurt Warner & Joe Montana had some respectable running-threat in their best seasons.

Those were all in the 80's and early 90's, when the game wasn't so tilted towards the pass. That has now changed. It has changed in the size and speed of the defense, it has changed in the rules, it has changed in the way the run is defended.

In today's game, the teams that wins SB's are balanced, to run first. Heck, some of them even set up the run with the pass. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as a team is able to be balanced.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Exactly. :shake02:

Though I think the man was unfairly scapegoated, I'm OK with it, I've said it before - I trust the Steelers FO's judgment implicitly.

ANY POSTS MADE TAKING SHOTS AT THOSE OF US WHO SUPPORTED MR. ARIANS WILL BE DELETED.yet taking shots at those who didnt support the retention of arians such as XT's post will be encouraged and supported? :huh:

let the mocking continue i guess...

i actually had relevant information in my post that was deleted.

Vincent
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
How great would it be to have Gailey as OC, Charlie as QC, The newly minted HoFer Dawson as OL. April on STs and Perry as DB?

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Exactly. :shake02:
ANY POSTS MADE TAKING SHOTS AT THOSE OF US WHO SUPPORTED MR. ARIANS WILL BE DELETED.

Wait? Really? Why?

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Wait, wait... any posts referencing the Braintrust are now being deleted, yet it was totally cool to use before when it mocked the "right" people?

References to the "brain trust" were not just used in this scenario. It serves no purpose to put down those of us who supported Mr. Arians (even though no official word on his firing yet from the Steelers) and all it is going to do is incite a flame fest which we don't need around here. Good enough for ya?

FacemeIke
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Last year played a large part in his firing as well. We were 22nd in the league last year in offense and he should have been let go last year if not for the Super Bowl win. True he was better as an OC this year, but still there were at least a few horrid play calls each game. In fact, if he doesnt call that sweep play on 3rd down in OT at Kansas City we are probably sitting in the playoffs right now!

zulater
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Wait, wait... any posts referencing the Braintrust are now being deleted, yet it was totally cool to use before when it mocked the "right" people?



You're kidding right? If that's true... :shake01:

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
YEA BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

I WOOP YA ASS ARIANS UNTIL U KNO I WILL.

HIRE ME AS OFFENSIVE CO-ORDINATOR I HAD GOOD PHILOSOPHIES IN MADDEN :D

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/1/5/1235286/bruce-arians-fired-steelers-offensive-coordinator-mike-tomlin

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 03:26 PM
yet taking shots at those who didnt support the retention of arians such as XT's post will be encouraged and supported? :huh:

let the mocking continue i guess...

i actually had relevant information in my post that was deleted.

OK - his post will be gone too.

I'm sorry but I disagree that the information in your post was "relevant". Imo, it was taking an underhanded shot which you score an A+ at around here. :wink: :chuckle:

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 03:26 PM
I have to agree with both of those statements. Honestly, that Browns game did it for me.

Then watching the last three games, I was quite impressed.

What that tells me however, is that Arians was probably FORCED to change things up some.

I put that statement in bold because I thought only parts of the last 3 games impressed me.

The part that didn't? REDZONE OFFENSE.

It's been a problem with Arians' offense for more than one season.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:27 PM
I still have to ask however, when our D allows touchdowns in something like 30 straight redzone trips... MULTIPLE last minute comebacks, and a swiss cheese pass defense, why do all the coaches on D get a pass?because they WILL fix the problem (with the assistance of troy and smith)

arians on the other hand was UNWILLING to adjust to the steelers way of playing football.

it took a ben injury for arians to finally put together a 4 minute offense and KEEP the ball out of miami's hands.

defense sealed the deal.

it is sad and a complete trainwreck that arians best job playcalling was when bens arm was dangling, and ben was out with a concussion.

we finally ran it when the defense knew we were gonna run it and we FINALLY imposed our will.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Wait? Really? Why?

Do you really need to ask?

Oh BTW, I wasn't mocking anyone with my posts. Mocking would be saying something like "HA HA HA - your boy got fired!" or something like that, which many of our less mature posters will not hesitate to do to those who supported Arians. My posts did none of that.

EDIT: Nevermind, I guess I did, and it got nuked. No biggie.

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 03:29 PM
NA NA NA HEY HEY GOODBYE!.

I don't think he deserves it allowing ben over 4000 yards, but thats drifting away from traditional steeler football.

i understand why they will do it.

FacemeIke
01-05-2010, 03:29 PM
I still have to ask however, when our D allows touchdowns in something like 30 straight redzone trips... MULTIPLE last minute comebacks, and a swiss cheese pass defense, why do all the coaches on D get a pass?

They've had success in the past. This season was out of character and we have reason to believe that they will turn it around.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
I put that statement in bold because I thought only parts of the last 3 games impressed me.

The part that didn't? REDZONE OFFENSE.

It's been a problem with Arians' offense for more than one season.

You get no argument from me there. However, even that seemed to be quite a bit better than before. But as I said, I think that may be because Arians got sat upon.

zulater
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
References to the "brain trust" were not just used in this scenario. It serves no purpose to put down those of us who supported Mr. Arians (even though no official word on his firing yet from the Steelers) and all it is going to do is incite a flame fest which we don't need around here. Good enough for ya?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY

Sorry... couldn't resist. :chuckle:

It's all in good fun HTG. :hatsoff:

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 03:31 PM
They've had success in the past. This season was out of character and we have reason to believe that they will turn it around.

who the hell would fire Dick Lebeau, there would be a riot by everyone if that happened

but for now we celebrate and wonder who becomes our new mastermind :tt04::tt04::drink::tt:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:32 PM
They've had success in the past. This season was out of character and we have reason to believe that they will turn it around.

But we have also had this exact problem in the past. 2006. Last half of 2007. 2009.

In short, 2 and a half of the last 4 years has seen this exact problem. PLUS the playoffs and SB last year, which the offense was able to overcome.

There is a weakness in the scheme that needs to be fixed. It seems the scheme needs outstanding players in order to work. That scares me, because we won't always have outstanding players due to injury.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:33 PM
References to the "brain trust" were not just used in this scenario. It serves no purpose to put down those of us who supported Mr. Arians (even though no official word on his firing yet from the Steelers) and all it is going to do is incite a flame fest which we don't need around here. Good enough for ya?just so we can all be clear here, any references to the "brain trust" refer to anyone who refuses to bow at the altar of the guru, right?

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 03:33 PM
I still have to ask however, when our D allows touchdowns in something like 30 straight redzone trips... MULTIPLE last minute comebacks, and a swiss cheese pass defense, why do all the coaches on D get a pass?

The defense didn't get a pass the years New England and the Raiders threw exclusively against us, forgoing the run...and still moved the ball up and down on us.

It gets a pass because they have consistently been highly RANKED, and they have been very opportunistic when it comes to making a big play when the Steelers needed it.

The Steelers didn't have that on defense this year, but again, that was more personel than coaching.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 03:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY

Sorry... couldn't resist. :chuckle:

It's all in good fun HTG. :hatsoff:

I found the perfect "Brain Trust" video but I'm going to be respectful enough not to post it. :hatsoff:

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 03:35 PM
just so we can all be clear here, any references to the "brain trust" refer to anyone who refuses to bow at the altar of the guru, right?

You're flame-baiting, hipcheese. :nono:

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:36 PM
There is a weakness in the scheme that needs to be fixed. It seems the scheme needs outstanding players in order to work. That scares me, because we won't always have outstanding players due to injury.that IS the scheme. that IS the weakness. you dont fix it. you rely on outstanding, dedicated, smart, disciplined players. anthony smith was had outstanding physical capabilities. he lacked all the other traits and was shown the door.

why do you think nobody else does it and it takes players so long to learn?

but when it is clicking it is bringing home lombardi's.

Edman
01-05-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm not really surprised. The Cleveland game pretty much cost him his job.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:38 PM
because they WILL fix the problem (with the assistance of troy and smith)

arians on the other hand was UNWILLING to adjust to the steelers way of playing football.

it took a ben injury for arians to finally put together a 4 minute offense and KEEP the ball out of miami's hands.

defense sealed the deal.

it is sad and a complete trainwreck that arians best job playcalling was when bens arm was dangling, and ben was out with a concussion.

we finally ran it when the defense knew we were gonna run it and we FINALLY imposed our will.

Tony, you do realize that only 3 teams in the league kept the ball out of the opposing teams hands more than we did right? Our TOP was number 4 out of 32 this year.

I don't disagree with you on Arians not being able to adjust. But I could care less about the "Steelers way" which brought us nothing by heartache for 25 years. I want games won and SB's won. Period. That can only be done with a balanced to slight pass first offense, as I have demonstrated many times by the SB record.

I am interested however, in the logic that states Arians best playcalling was in a game that we lost only only scored a few points, and not in any of the games where our offense scored 30 plus and had to overcome our defenses' screwups.

FacemeIke
01-05-2010, 03:38 PM
But we have also had this exact problem in the past. 2006. Last half of 2007. 2009.

In short, 2 and a half of the last 4 years has seen this exact problem. PLUS the playoffs and SB last year, which the offense was able to overcome.

There is a weakness in the scheme that needs to be fixed. It seems the scheme needs outstanding players in order to work. That scares me, because we won't always have outstanding players due to injury.

Our D has had its downs at times even prior to 2006. But, it carried us in both of our super bowl seasons.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not really surprised. The Cleveland game pretty much cost him his job.


Yep. Absolutely.

MasterOfPuppets
01-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Report: Pittsburgh Steelers To Fire Bruce Arians
Pittsburgh Sports Insider Blog
t
he Pittsburgh Steelers are apparently wasting no time in shaking things up after not making the playoffs and will reportedly fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians this week.

According to ESPN 1250's Ken Laird, the announcement was made shortly after 2 p.m. and after Mike Tomlin addressed the media during a weekly press conference.

The Steelers have made no official comment at this point.

Arians was initially hired by Bill Cowher to be the wide receiver coach and served three years in that position.

He was promoted to offensive coordinator in January of 2007 and just completed his third year with the team in that role.

Earlier in the day, quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson retired from the NFL after 33 years as a player and a coach.

Stay With KDKA.com For More Details
http://kdka.com/steelers/bruce.arians.fired.2.1406516.html

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:40 PM
that IS the scheme. that IS the weakness. you dont fix it. you rely on outstanding, dedicated, smart, disciplined players. anthony smith was had outstanding physical capabilities. he lacked all the other traits and was shown the door.

why do you think nobody else does it and it takes players so long to learn?

but when it is clicking it is bringing home lombardi's.

So you are comfortable with a scheme that is so precarious, that one injury will doom a season?

steeltheone
01-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Also I remember Chan Gailey and before him Ron Earhardt were generally popular with the fans

Fans hated Earhardt, And ran Gilbride and the guy we had from the vikings for one year out of town.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 03:42 PM
So you are comfortable with a scheme that is so precarious, that one injury will doom a season?

Not to mention a scheme that is dependent on a once-in-a-generation player to execute properly, otherwise it allows the likes of Bruce Gradkowski and Tyler Thigpen to light it up at will like a Christmas tree?

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
Tony, you do realize that only 3 teams in the league kept the ball out of the opposing teams hands more than we did right? Our TOP was number 4 out of 32 this year.

I don't disagree with you on Arians not being able to adjust. But I could care less about the "Steelers way" which brought us nothing by heartache for 25 years. I want games won and SB's won. Period. That can only be done with a balanced to slight pass first offense, as I have demonstrated many times by the SB record.

I am interested however, in the logic that states Arians best playcalling was in a game that we lost only only scored a few points, and not in any of the games where our offense scored 30 plus and had to overcome our defenses' screwups.

ive been through this a million times. simply running the ball 3-4 more times a game wouldve had us at#1 in time of posession. instead of being 60% pass/40% run going 55/45 wouldve done an injured defense wonders.

it wouldve taken the ball out of the opponents hands in the final minute and we would have won.

and when needed we still woulda had all the skill and potential to enter and win a complete shootout like vs GB.

ill get back to you on the other "logic" that says the defense lost 5 games but refuses to aknowledge all the games they won.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 03:46 PM
Not to mention a scheme that is dependent on a once-in-a-generation player to execute properly, otherwise it allows the likes of Bruce Gradkowski and Tyler Thigpen to light it up at will like a Christmas tree?the offense was giving them the ball like a clown handing out balloons at a circus.

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 03:47 PM
Not sure if the actual article and link have been posted(I quickly scanned 8 pages and didn't see it), but here it is:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and it's worth noting no other Pittsburgh outlets have confirmed the report. NFL Network's Jason LaCanfora calls the report "premature." Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. We doubt Arians would have been criticized so much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:47 PM
Not to mention a scheme that is dependent on a once-in-a-generation player to execute properly, otherwise it allows the likes of Bruce Gradkowski and Tyler Thigpen to light it up at will like a Christmas tree?

And that is my exact point. There is a serious problem when the removal of one player will destroy a season.

So either the scheme is bad, or there are more problems then we want to admit.

I think, it is column B with a little bit of column A because there is so much tape on this defense now.

As I said before, Tomlin and Lebeau will figure it out. But I for one, will NOT give our defense a pass. The defense should be EXPECTED to play 30 minutes a game, and not get cut up. Its one thing to expect the offense to hold on to the ball. Its another to allow another offense to walk up and down the field.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:48 PM
the offense was giving them the ball like a clown handing out balloons at a circus.

No, it wasn't.

Once again. TOP, 4th in the league.

California-Steel
01-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Yea BABY!!!!!:applaudit::drink::hatsoff:

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Kordell Stewart got us to the AFC Championship game people.

I repeat. KORDELL STEWART got us to the AFC Championship game. Arguably the worst playoff QB in history.

Even if we go back to a run first offense, but at a 51% run, 49 % pass ratio, does anyone not think this will be a scary offense next season even without Arians.

I'm not saying I want predictability. I don't want that.
What I want is the following.
1) balance (yes Preacher, I agree)
2) David Johnson moved to Fullback. He doesn't have to be in on every run, but he should be used twice as much as he's used now. He showed signs of being a good run blocker. I actually saw him seeking out Ray Lewis on a few run plays and he did a decent job. Make it his full time position so he can get better at blocking. Catching is something ANY NFL skill player should do without having to be labeled a tight end.
3) Let Spaeth Go! Seriously, we've got Heath and we could probably pick up a blocking tight end for cheap. Heath is the only TE we throw to anyway.
4) As much as I Ben and our receivers. I'm fine if they cut down on the empty backfield plays. I'd much rather see Mendenhall back there as an option to block, roll out, draw.... If Ben is he only guy back there EVERY DEFENSE WILL PLAY THE PASS.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. We doubt Arians would have been criticized so much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Nope, not allowed to mention that. Everything wrong with the D this year is because of the offense. Didn't you get the memo?

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 03:51 PM
And that is my exact point. There is a serious problem when the removal of one player will destroy a season.

So either the scheme is bad, or there are more problems then we want to admit.

I think, it is column B with a little bit of column A because there is so much tape on this defense now.

As I said before, Tomlin and Lebeau will figure it out. But I for one, will NOT give our defense a pass. The defense should be EXPECTED to play 30 minutes a game, and not get cut up. Its one thing to expect the offense to hold on to the ball. Its another to allow another offense to walk up and down the field.

I don't even have much of a problem when they get moved on by offenses like the Colts or even Arizona's but when they let an anemic, 10 points per game outfit like the Raiders score at will? There's a problem that needs to be fixed.

Indo
01-05-2010, 03:54 PM
While I have a ton of things to say regarding the ousting of BA, the Cleveland game (which did it for me, also), the Defensive woes (which Tony, I agree, will be largely fixed with the return of the Greatest Player in the Game and the Most Underrated Defensive lineman in the Game)----but you guys/gals are doing enough of that

Here is my question:

BA is gone
Kenny A just retired

That is a lot of offensive coaching to replace
(and, perhaps, that is why we haven't heard anything about an ST Coaching shakedown---although I would like April, too---but I digress)

Who do you want to see?
And I'll just throw this out there for kicks----

Shanahan? (I personally don't like his play-calling; but that's me)
Gruden? (would love to see him here---but I don't think he'll go for anything short of HC---he already has a pretty sweet gig going)

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 03:56 PM
I don't disagree with you on Arians not being able to adjust. But I could care less about the "Steelers way" which brought us nothing by heartache for 25 years. I want games won and SB's won. Period. That can only be done with a balanced to slight pass first offense, as I have demonstrated many times by the SB record.


Two words Preacher.

Big Ben.

If Pittsburgh hadn't lucked to him with that 10th pick Arians wouldn't have lasted as long as he did.

Only the Ravens have ever been good enough on defense to win a SB without a game changing QB leading the way.

So yeah, the Steelers didn't win the SB playing smash mouth football, but it had more to do with the likes of Bubby Brister, Mike Tomzak, Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell being the QBs.

If this Steeler team ran the same type of offense the Kordell Stewart and Bubby Brister teams ran I have no doubt the Steelers could still win the Super Bowl.

The Steelers haven't had a real Pro Bowl QB since Bradshaw man!! The hell with Arians getting credit for us having a great QB.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 03:56 PM
Who do you want to see?
And I'll just throw this out there for kicks----

Shanahan? (I personally don't like his play-calling; but that's me)
Gruden? (would love to see him here---but I don't think he'll go for anything short of HC---he already has a pretty sweet gig going)

Shanahan won't take a coordinator's job either.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 03:57 PM
Kordell Stewart got us to the AFC Championship game people.

I repeat. KORDELL STEWART got us to the AFC Championship game. Arguably the worst playoff QB in history.

Even if we go back to a run first offense, but at a 51% run, 49 % pass ratio, does anyone not think this will be a scary offense next season even without Arians.

I'm not saying I want predictability. I don't want that.
What I want is the following.
1) balance (yes Preacher, I agree)
2) David Johnson moved to Fullback. He doesn't have to be in on every run, but he should be used twice as much as he's used now. He showed signs of being a good run blocker. I actually saw him seeking out Ray Lewis on a few run plays and he did a decent job. Make it his full time position so he can get better at blocking. Catching is something ANY NFL skill player should do without having to be labeled a tight end.
3) Let Spaeth Go! Seriously, we've got Heath and we could probably pick up a blocking tight end for cheap. Heath is the only TE we throw to anyway.
4) As much as I Ben and our receivers. I'm fine if they cut down on the empty backfield plays. I'd much rather see Mendenhall back there as an option to block, roll out, draw.... If Ben is he only guy back there EVERY DEFENSE WILL PLAY THE PASS.

I only disagree in two places. 1. I don't care about which WAY the percentage goes, 51 to 49, 53 47, run to pass, pass to run doesn't matter, just that we have the ability to do both. On that you and I completely agree. 2. Empty set is fine, AT THE RIGHT TIMES. I don't want to dismiss it from our GP all together. I do however, think that we need to stop telecasting 90 percent of our plays.

I am interested in David Johnson as a FB, or in our rookie coming back and actually being able to play. Specifically because it gives us the ability to be flexible with the empty set. Line Johnson up as a TE in an empty set, then bring him back as a ball carrier or blocking FB. Line him up as a FB, then send him out as a TE, along with Mendy as a receiver.

zulater
01-05-2010, 03:57 PM
Also I remember Chan Gailey and before him Ron Earhardt were generally popular with the fans

Fans hated Earhardt, And ran Gilbride and the guy we had from the vikings for one year out of town.

The guy from the Vikings was Ray Sherman, he was horrible at the job. So was Kevin Gilbride.

And I'm sure some fans may have hated Earhardt, but not many. They guy came with an excellent resume from the Giants and did a great job with the Steelers. The only reason Cowher let him go when he did was because they thought they had an up and comer in Chan Gailey.

I'm 49 years old with an excellent memory and imo it was a distinct minority that had a major problem with Earhardt, Gailey, and Whisenhunt while they were acting in the capacity as Steelers OC.

By and large the majority of Steeler fans support coaches that are doing a good job. The major irony here is that the Bruce Arians holdouts want to have it both ways. By that I mean, on one hand you want to claim that everyone who disliked Arains job performance also disliked everyone that ever preceeded BA. ( which i strongly disagree with) But on the other hand you cry that most that had it in for Bruce continue to prop up Dick LeBeau at every turn. Well geez if we're just a bunch of fickle coach haters who turn at the drop off a flag, how do you explain this? :noidea:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 03:57 PM
I this Arians thing legit?? Any credible news source reporting it or is this just some haters wishing for good news??

Indo
01-05-2010, 03:58 PM
Shanahan won't take a coordinator's job either.

Yea, I know----his name just came to mind

What about Zorn to replace Kenny A?

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 04:00 PM
And that is my exact point. There is a serious problem when the removal of one player will destroy a season.


It wasn't just one player.

Starters on the 2008 defense that didn't play in last 3 games of 2009.

Aaron Smith
Troy Polamalu
Brian McFadden
Larry Foote

That's 4 players that I'd argue were replaced by inferior talent at their positions. (before you guys jump off the deep end...Timmons has more physical talent than Foote, but at this time doesn't play the ILB spot better than Foote did)

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Yea, I know----his name just came to mind

What about Zorn to replace Kenny A?

I'd like to see Batch get the QB coaching job.

steelcity1974
01-05-2010, 04:03 PM
ive been through this a million times. simply running the ball 3-4 more times a game wouldve had us at#1 in time of posession. instead of being 60% pass/40% run going 55/45 wouldve done an injured defense wonders.

it wouldve taken the ball out of the opponents hands in the final minute and we would have won.

and when needed we still woulda had all the skill and potential to enter and win a complete shootout like vs GB.

ill get back to you on the other "logic" that says the defense lost 5 games but refuses to aknowledge all the games they won.

ToP was not out problem this year. I agree with running the ball more, but I don't understand why you think 14 more seconds of time of possession per game wins us the games we lost in the 4th quarter. We ended the season thrid in ToP/game in the NFL, exactly 13 seconds behind the number 1 team. Scoring more points in the red zone would be a better way to win those games. And the D manning up when the game is on the line would be nice too. I definitely cut the D slack with Troy and Smith out, but ToP was a plus this year.

zulater
01-05-2010, 04:03 PM
I this Arians thing legit?? Any credible news source reporting it or is this just some haters wishing for good news??

It's not official but it's true.

Tomlin hasn't had his season ending meeting with any of his coaches yet, so it's more than a little embarrassing and unfortunate that the cat got out of the bag before Arains was informed face to face. But it's looks as if it's a matter of when not if the formal announcment is made by the club.

Indo
01-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I'd like to see Batch get the QB coaching job.

I think he would be a great coach---but should the back-up be coaching the starter?Admittedly, some guys who simply don't have the God-given talent can make great coaches...


As for Shanahan---looks like he will (may?) end up as a Wash Snyderskin...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4795477

xbroughneck
01-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I'd like to see Batch get the QB coaching job.
+1

I think both he and Ben would love that. Over the past 3 years I've enjoyed watching Charlie and Ben on the sidelines with each other discussing stuff.

And Charlie back in the day (in Detroit) was a pretty decent QB. He just sucked after the injuries. Man just couldn't stay healthy.

MAN, if this is true...I'M GLAD WE DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON.

No, I didn't stutter.:tt::tt04::tt02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 04:12 PM
It's not official but it's true.

Tomlin hasn't had his season ending meeting with any of his coaches yet, so it's more than a little embarrassing and unfortunate that the cat got out of the bag before Arains was informed face to face. But it's looks as if it's a matter of if not when the formal announcment is made by the club.

I'll wait until the official announcements come, just to be sure. Then I might dance.

If true, it might mean the Steelers can get a real FB and get back to some more physical offensive football. But, I'll still believe it when I see it.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 04:12 PM
+1

I think both he and Ben would love that. Over the past 3 years I've enjoyed watching Charlie and Ben on the sidelines with each other discussing stuff.

And Charlie back in the day (in Detroit) was a pretty decent QB. He just sucked after the injuries. Man just couldn't stay healthy.

MAN, if this is true...I'M GLAD WE DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON.

No, I didn't stutter.:tt::tt04::tt02:

I think Batch and Ben have a really good rapport and that would lend itself to Batch being good in the role. Just my opinion. Batch has to retire first, and I haven't heard anything saying he will. :noidea:

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 04:13 PM
I this Arians thing legit?? Any credible news source reporting it or is this just some haters wishing for good news??

Nah, more like die hard fans looking for accountability.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 04:13 PM
Two words Preacher.

Big Ben.

If Pittsburgh hadn't lucked to him with that 10th pick Arians wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Arians system is specifically focused on a QB being to throw the ball like Ben. You are exactly right.

Only the Ravens have ever been good enough on defense to win a SB without a game changing QB leading the way. Once again, I completely agree with you. And I agree with you because we need a QB to be able to throw the ball, as SB defenses ARE ABLE TO STOP THE RUN.

So yeah, the Steelers didn't win the SB playing smash mouth football, but it had more to do with the likes of Bubby Brister, Mike Tomzak, Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell being the QBs. And why were they QB's? Starting with O'Donnell under Cowher, it was thought that an OK QB was just fine, as long as we had a dominant run game. We didn't win SB's with smash mouth football because smashmouth football does NOT win SB's. The ravens win is literally an anomaly of the last 20 or so years.

If this Steeler team ran the same type of offense the Kordell Stewart and Bubby Brister teams ran I have no doubt the Steelers could still win the Super Bowl. There is no way we would have made it to the SB in 2005. It took Ben putting us on his shoulders and throw throw throw the ball in the first halfs of both the Bengals and Denver's game. Last year, Willie ran the ball for 140+ yards, the team rushed for 160 plus yards against the Chargers. Yet, we still would have lost that game, if we didn't have air game as well.

The Steelers haven't had a real Pro Bowl QB since Bradshaw man!! The hell with Arians getting credit for us having a great QB.

I never said Arians gets that credit. I AM arguing however, that it takes a balanced game, not a smashmouth nor a Air it out offense to win SB's. That has been my contention all along.

BTW, go back and look at 95, we were a pass dominated offense that season. So maybe we WOULD have won the SB then... well, that depends on whether Ben throws those two picks. I think not. I think he holds on the the ball and gets sacked instead. :chuckle:

Bluedust
01-05-2010, 04:14 PM
ive been through this a million times. simply running the ball 3-4 more times a game wouldve had us at#1 in time of posession. instead of being 60% pass/40% run going 55/45 wouldve done an injured defense wonders.

it wouldve taken the ball out of the opponents hands in the final minute and we would have won.

and when needed we still woulda had all the skill and potential to enter and win a complete shootout like vs GB.

ill get back to you on the other "logic" that says the defense lost 5 games but refuses to aknowledge all the games they won.

You're really grasping here.

I'm glad BA is gone but a lot of you are deluding yourselves into thinking that will fix all the team's problems.

MasterOfPuppets
01-05-2010, 04:16 PM
I this Arians thing legit?? Any credible news source reporting it or is this just some haters wishing for good news??

you mean besides firebrucearians.com / :chuckle: ...kdka has reported it.

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 04:18 PM
BTW, go back and look at 95, we were a pass dominated offense that season. So maybe we WOULD have won the SB then... well, that depends on whether Ben throws those two picks. I think not. I think he holds on the the ball and gets sacked instead.

Very funny! :rofl:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 04:19 PM
It wasn't just one player.

Starters on the 2008 defense that didn't play in last 3 games of 2009.

Aaron Smith
Troy Polamalu
Brian McFadden
Larry Foote

That's 4 players that I'd argue were replaced by inferior talent at their positions. (before you guys jump off the deep end...Timmons has more physical talent than Foote, but at this time doesn't play the ILB spot better than Foote did)

The problem with that however, is that McFadden was sharing time with Gay last year, and also had a terrible year this year in Arizona, so there is NO tangible evidence that there was ANY downgrade from McFadden to Gay.

I am also not convinced in teh least that there is a downgrade from Foote to Timmons. Where Foote may have been a bit stronger against the run, Timmons is MUCH better against the pass, and gets better pressure on the QB when sent. So I don't see that playing out.

Never the less, if Tony is right, then our scheme is absolutely dependent on outstanding players making outstanding plays all the time. How dangerous a scheme is that? Especially when injuries and free agency happens? THAT ist he discussion happening here.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 04:22 PM
you mean besides firebrucearians.com / :chuckle: ...kdka has reported it.

KDKA did NOT report Arians' firing. They simply reiterated the rumor.

According to ESPN 1250's Ken Laird, the announcement was made shortly after 2 p.m. and after Mike Tomlin addressed the media during a weekly press conference.

The Steelers have made no official comment at this point.


I'm watching KDKA News right now and am waiting for the sports segment of the show to hear what they have to say.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 04:22 PM
you mean besides firebrucearians.com / :chuckle: ...kdka has reported it.

:rofl:

Indo
01-05-2010, 04:22 PM
You're really grasping here.

I'm glad BA is gone but a lot of you are deluding yourselves into thinking that will fix all the team's problems.

It will, hopefully, fix one aspect of the team's problems

And, let me be clear to all, by no means am I a FIRE ARIANS Hater...
but after this past season it has become clear to me that he has No Imagination. (Example: 3rd and 1; empty backfield. The D already knows what is coming. No Imagination to try to even make the D respect the possibility of a Run). Very Poor Redzone performances, etc.

Make no mistake, though. I think the D and the STs have a ton of problems, too.

One fix at a time...

Indo
01-05-2010, 04:25 PM
http://kdka.com/sports

Preacher
01-05-2010, 04:27 PM
It will, hopefully, fix one aspect of the team's problems

And, let me be clear to all, by no means am I a FIRE ARIANS Hater...
but after this past season it has become clear to me that he has No Imagination. (Example: 3rd and 1; empty backfield. The D already knows what is coming. No Imagination to try to even make the D respect the possibility of a Run). Very Poor Redzone performances, etc.

Make no mistake, though. I think the D and the STs have a ton of problems, too.

One fix at a time...


Wow. A balanced assessment. I haven't seen that in quite some time! :chuckle:

You are exactly right. Though I do have to ask one question to others. Why is it that when we line up "smash mouth" and have no imagination, it is "imposing our will". But when we do the same with the pass, it isn't "imposing our will" it is "no imagination".

When "smashmouth" doesn't work, we say, "We have to try harder to impose our will". When the pass doesn't work we say, "abandon it and run smashmouth"?

Seems to me there is a bit of a disconnect.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 04:27 PM
you mean besides firebrucearians.com / :chuckle: ...kdka has reported it.

OK, checked the KDKA site and saying they will reportedly fire Arians.

When it happens, I will jump for joy, but with cautious optimisim that a new OC that will allow our 300lb O linemen to grind down defenses and use a FB to impose their will and take the tough yards......rather than concede that we cant run and go empty backfield on 3rd and 1.

But, be careful what you wish for, as we could end up with June Jones wanting to install run n shoot or some clown wanting to run a wildcat instead.

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 04:29 PM
http://kdka.com/sports

Again - -

According to ESPN 1250's Ken Laird, the announcement was made shortly after 2 p.m. and after Mike Tomlin addressed the media during a weekly press conference.

The Steelers have made no official comment at this point.

Indo
01-05-2010, 04:29 PM
Wow. A balanced assessment. I haven't seen that in quite some time! :chuckle:

You are exactly right. Though I do have to ask one question to others. Why is it that when we line up "smash mouth" and have no imagination, it is "imposing our will". But when we do the same with the pass, it isn't "imposing our will" it is "no imagination".

When "smashmouth" doesn't work, we say, "We have to try harder to impose our will". When the pass doesn't work we say, "abandon it and run smashmouth"?

Seems to me there is a bit of a disconnect.

Yes. Just a bit.

I am all for the Balance that you have been Preaching about! :chuckle:

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Wow. A balanced assessment. I haven't seen that in quite some time! :chuckle:

You are exactly right. Though I do have to ask one question to others. Why is it that when we line up "smash mouth" and have no imagination, it is "imposing our will". But when we do the same with the pass, it isn't "imposing our will" it is "no imagination".

When "smashmouth" doesn't work, we say, "We have to try harder to impose our will". When the pass doesn't work we say, "abandon it and run smashmouth"?

Seems to me there is a bit of a disconnect.

There is a disconnect, but that is from 30 years of watching the Steelers playing "smashmouth football" and having there way with it. Now that the Steelers have changed their philosophy to a more pass first team, it makes it a tougher pill to swallow for a lot of fans when it isn't as successful.

MasterOfPuppets
01-05-2010, 04:33 PM
Again - -
the patriots spygate started out the same way.......

"where there's smoke, there's usually fire" ...mike tomlin

tube517
01-05-2010, 04:33 PM
Exactly. Whis did a good job with less talent.
His handling of Ben in his first year was great.
His play calling in 2005 playoffs was superb.

As far as Arians, he is all stats and poor situational play calling and dreadful red zone production. Do you see any other teams lining up to hire this guy?

I honestly don't remember the majority of Steelers fans that I know that had a problem with Ken Whisenhunt when he was in that position. In fact coming off a disappointing season (8-8 in 06) many Steeler fans wanted and expected Whiz to take the helm in place of Cowher.

Also I remember Chan Gailey and before him Ron Earhardt were generally popular with the fans.

So I suppose i have to disagree with you here.

Generally speaking the better the coach the better the support amongst the fans, thus the continued support for LeBeau following a down season.

Rick5895
01-05-2010, 04:34 PM
I have said this many times before, I am no fan of Arians, but if this is fact, I think it's
a mistake at this point. Be careful what you wish for you might just get it.
I thought he was coming around to more balanced football and learned a valuable lesson after the Cleveland debacle. I even saw a few screens. If this is the case I hope we find someone who can maximize the talents we have then, if not we will all be saying 'Where's Bruce?"

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 04:34 PM
Wow. A balanced assessment. I haven't seen that in quite some time! :chuckle:

You are exactly right. Though I do have to ask one question to others. Why is it that when we line up "smash mouth" and have no imagination, it is "imposing our will". But when we do the same with the pass, it isn't "imposing our will" it is "no imagination".

When "smashmouth" doesn't work, we say, "We have to try harder to impose our will". When the pass doesn't work we say, "abandon it and run smashmouth"?

Seems to me there is a bit of a disconnect.

Preacher, since you are a big hockey fan, maybe you can understand that what posters are saying when they refer to smash mouth vs. pass happy...........they are kind of comparing the styles like NHL hockey vs. Swedish league hockey.

When its 3rd down and short and the coach opts to pass most of the time, it tells the offense that we are going to take a chance of dropped passes, errant throws, good coverage.......instead of just trusting the 330LB O linemen to man up and get the yards. It cultivates a soft persona in a tough physical game.

Arguably the Steelers have the softest offensive unit in the AFC North. I dont think that is what Coach Tomlin wants.

LukesDad88
01-05-2010, 04:35 PM
It seemed to me, that after Ben started getting all the press for how well he was running the no huddle, and when there was alot of pressure for us to run the no huddle more often, that Bruce pulled it completely from the game plan except for 2 minute drills. Did anyone else notice that?

OX1947
01-05-2010, 04:35 PM
Buccaneer Head Coach Morris fired his OC 10 days before the season-opener, then took-over the DC position himself with 5-7 games to play, because he didn't like the way things were going:
jes'-sayin'

Yah, I just couldn't figure out why if the calls weren't what he wanted, why he didn't change them. Steeler org isn't know to fire coaches during the season but there has to be a point where if you are blowing double digit leads, you might want to stop going into shotgun on 2nd and 3.

Arians suffers from what many coaches have. The inability to adjust. You either have it or you dont. If all coaches had the talent, then there wouldnt be bad coaches. So I get that. But the Steelers need either a philosphy that they go to at all times, IE Cowher Power Ball when its time to seal the deal, or they need someone who can adjust throughout the season, each game, each quarter while teams adjust to them.

What ended up happening towards the middle and end of the season was the teams coverage basically played back, covered the zones and made Big Ben hold the ball knowing he would.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 04:37 PM
Do you see any other teams lining up to hire this guy?

Will be interesting to see who does hire him when this does happen. Maybe he gets the Raiders head coaching job?? :banana:

7/39/43
01-05-2010, 04:37 PM
Music to my ears

A-Gray47
01-05-2010, 04:48 PM
So say we do axe BA.....who would you like to see?

Take a stab at the hot start/horrible finish Jim Zorn?

The proven but hot headed TTU Leach?


Any chance we can get an early holiday and ditch both BA and Legursky?

:tt02:

MasterOfPuppets
01-05-2010, 04:49 PM
Will be interesting to see who does hire him when this does happen. Maybe he gets the Raiders head coaching job?? :banana:

lol...i just heard john clayton say cable will probably be fired because davis wants someone who can develop jamarcus russel....:toofunny:

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
lol...i just heard john clayton say cable will probably be fired because davis wants someone who can develop jamarcus russel....:toofunny:

Then they need to start over with him, like in high school..lol

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 04:58 PM
lol...i just heard john clayton say cable will probably be fired because davis wants someone who can develop jamarcus russel....:toofunny:

Well................Arians did develop Peyton Manning into the QB that he is today, according to some QB guru's. I say if BA is let go, he becomes the front runner in Oakland.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Preacher, since you are a big hockey fan, maybe you can understand that what posters are saying when they refer to smash mouth vs. pass happy...........they are kind of comparing the styles like NHL hockey vs. Swedish league hockey.

When its 3rd down and short and the coach opts to pass most of the time, it tells the offense that we are going to take a chance of dropped passes, errant throws, good coverage.......instead of just trusting the 330LB O linemen to man up and get the yards. It cultivates a soft persona in a tough physical game.

Arguably the Steelers have the softest offensive unit in the AFC North. I dont think that is what Coach Tomlin wants.

El G.

I don't think that is what people are asking for. You and I are in agreement that on 3rd and 1, run the ball, UNLESS it has been shown that we CANT run it. Then, don't go empty set because it telecasts what we are going to do.

I think what many people here mean, when they say smashmouth, is going back to the 3yards and a cloud of dust mentality, regardless of who we play. Impose our will!

It is THAT type of mentality that I am absolutely against.

Since you seem to understand hockey (your stock went WAY up my book because of it! :wink02:) let me state it this way maybe... It seems that we have built a team like the NY Rangers in 2005. That team had a whole lot of talent, and was able to play two different types of offense. One was a pass and carry, where you rush into the zone carrying the puck, and set up a wheel in the corner, or go deep and find a guy in the high slot, if you couldn't run a weave and go straight for the net.

The other type of offense is a dump and chase. You put a couple BIG guys on the wings, dump the puck in once you cross the center line, then let the defense get the puck. As soon as you do that, you attempt to put the guy into next week, pick up the puck, and hit a trailer breaking for the net.
____________

What I think I am hearing from certain sections, is that they want to ignore the fact we have the ability to play good pass and skate offense, wiping out a number of weapons we possess, because they like the sound of the crashing boards. It is more enjoyable for them to watch, cause that is good ole eddie shore, toe blake hockey.


In other words, Best QB this team has possibly ever had? Check. Deepest and most talented roster of WR's since the 70's (and according to stats, including them)? Check. Most explosive offense this team has had since then? Check.

So lets shut it all down and return to three yards and a cloud of mediocrity football.

I don't buy it.

Balance balance balance.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:01 PM
There is a disconnect, but that is from 30 years of watching the Steelers playing "smashmouth football" and having there way with it. Now that the Steelers have changed their philosophy to a more pass first team, it makes it a tougher pill to swallow for a lot of fans when it isn't as successful.

See,

now THAT makes a whole lot of sense. You are exactly right, except that, I remember too many times when we didn't "have our way with it".

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:05 PM
Why do we need a OC?

Let Ben call all the plays! :chuckle:

HometownGal
01-05-2010, 05:11 PM
5:00 KDKA news reporting that the Steelers deny the rumors circulating about BA and that the rumor by Laird is "extremely premature". Tomlin said in his press conference today that while the FO has some input, the final decision on personnel is HIS. Until I hear it directly from the Steelers FO and/or Tomlin, I'm not taking this rumor as gospel.

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 05:11 PM
If it's not on the Official Site - I'm not believing anything.

Tomlin ain't got the balls to fire Arians.

You can tell him I said that.

TackleMeBen
01-05-2010, 05:12 PM
Why do we need a OC?

Let Ben call all the plays! :chuckle:
b/c we dont need him wrecking the porche preacher...:chuckle:

as for batch becoming the new qb coach. i could see him helping develop dixon. i mean how much more developing does ben need?

Sharkissle29
01-05-2010, 05:12 PM
PLEASE BECOME A REALITY

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:13 PM
If it's not on the Official Site - I'm not believing anything.

Tomlin ain't got the balls to fire Arians.

You can tell him I said that.

Well, either that, or tomlin doesn't think Arians is the problem. :noidea:

Again, I don't think there is any love-loss between the two. So if Arians is the issue, I have a feeling he will be gone.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Preacher, I seem to agree for the most part with you. To me, real hockey is a skilled game where you pass and carry the puck into the offensive zone and never give up on a chance to finish the check. Teams with less offensive talent have to dump and chase or play a neutral zone trap like Lemaire's Minnesota teams.

To me in football, if you dont have the horses to be physical, then you go 5 wide and spread out the defense, throw the ball around and mix in some reverses or wildcat sets. The sad thing is that even though the Steelers have a big powerful O line, they have chose to be a pass first team, because that is the system the OC uses, the system he ran in Cleveland, the system he ran in Temple Univ.

When you dont run the football in December, in bad weather....chances are you lose. When you avoid running the football, you create a culture where the O line becomes absorbers of punishment instead of the dictators of physicality. To me.........empty backfield football on short yardage is the equivalent of non body contact hockey. Let Don Cherry finish the rest of what that means. :wink:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 05:16 PM
If it's not on the Official Site - I'm not believing anything.

Tomlin ain't got the balls to fire Arians.

You can tell him I said that.

I agree!! I dont think Tomlin is gonna do it........he is still trying to "unleash hell" from back in December.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:16 PM
b/c we dont need him wrecking the porche preacher...:chuckle:

as for batch becoming the new qb coach. i could see him helping develop dixon. i mean how much more developing does ben need?

A whole lot.

That isn't to say Ben is bad.

Remember, Tiger woods STILL has coaches. He has re-invented his swing about 3 different times (Just leave that one alone Tony :chuckle:).

Things like mechanics, arm slot, bad habits, etc. all come and go. A coach helps keep things together.

Glace
01-05-2010, 05:16 PM
5:00 KDKA news reporting that the Steelers deny the rumors circulating about BA and that the rumor by Laird is "extremely premature". Tomlin said in his press conference today that while the FO has some input, the final decision on personnel is HIS. Until I hear it directly from the Steelers FO and/or Tomlin, I'm not taking this rumor as gospel.

Agreed.

I'm at the point where I stand behind the team either way.

If they keep him, we've all seen what he's capable of in a good sense.

If they fire him...we've all see what he's capable of in a bad sense.

We could do better, but we could always do a lot worse as well.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 05:18 PM
A whole lot.

That isn't to say Ben is bad.

Remember, Tiger woods STILL has coaches. He has re-invented his swing about 3 different times (Just leave that one alone Tony :chuckle:).

Things like mechanics, arm slot, bad habits, etc. all come and go. A coach helps keep things together.

True, the worst thing Tiger did was fire Butch Harmon................OK, there was that waitress from Perkins he was tappin'.

TackleMeBen
01-05-2010, 05:19 PM
A whole lot.

That isn't to say Ben is bad.

Remember, Tiger woods STILL has coaches. He has re-invented his swing about 3 different times (Just leave that one alone Tony :chuckle:).

Things like mechanics, arm slot, bad habits, etc. all come and go. A coach helps keep things together.
tiger needs other kind of coaches than swing coaches..lol

even with mechanics and things, do you really believe ben is going to change? i mean he still holds onto the ball too long...shouldnt the qbs coach try and tell him to get rid of the ball instead of taking so many sacks?

Glace
01-05-2010, 05:22 PM
tiger needs other kind of coaches than swing coaches..lol

even with mechanics and things, do you really believe ben is going to change? i mean he still holds onto the ball too long...shouldnt the qbs coach try and tell him to get rid of the ball instead of taking so many sacks?

Yes...Ben holds onto the ball too long and brings a lot of sacks on himself....

BUT....it's a double edged sword. I don't want Ben to change. I want Ben to play the way he has been, even if it means he eats dirt a few extra times a games and loses a few yards.

Suppose some new QB coach tries to change his mindset to getting rid of the ball. Suppose he gets out on the field with this new mindset and starts ditching the ball a second before somebody gets open.

No....let Ben be Ben. I'll take the overwhelming good with the bad in this case.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Preacher, I seem to agree for the most part with you. To me, real hockey is a skilled game where you pass and carry the puck into the offensive zone and never give up on a chance to finish the check. Teams with less offensive talent have to dump and chase or play a neutral zone trap like Lemaire's Minnesota teams.

To me in football, if you dont have the horses to be physical, then you go 5 wide and spread out the defense, throw the ball around and mix in some reverses or wildcat sets. The sad thing is that even though the Steelers have a big powerful O line, they have chose to be a pass first team, because that is the system the OC uses, the system he ran in Cleveland, the system he ran in Temple Univ.

When you dont run the football in December, in bad weather....chances are you lose. When you avoid running the football, you create a culture where the O line becomes absorbers of punishment instead of the dictators of physicality. To me.........empty backfield football on short yardage is the equivalent of non body contact hockey. Let Don Cherry finish the rest of what that means. :wink:

Wow. Even a Don Cherry reference! :thumbsup:

I think, in all reality, you and I are probably on the same page, but we are standing back to back, pushing against the extremes.

See, I absolutely agree that you have to be able to run the ball in bad weather. But I also think that you have to be able to throw the ball when you play a defense that can stuff the run, which we do at least twice a year in our own division, maybe 4 times a year, depending on what the Bengals do next year (they were the 4th best against the run this year).

I think it is foolish to think that 4 times a year, we can impose our will on a top 5 rush defense, unless we are willing to throw the ball as much as we run the ball.

I think your argument is, we play in the AFCN, in December, meaning that there is a good chance we will have 2-4 games where throwing the ball will be very difficult (i.e. browns).

You too are right.

Balance, Balance, Balance.

Whether you throw the ball to open up running lanes, or run the ball to open up passing lanes, you have to be able to do both, in a balanced manner.

Otherwise, you'll be hanging up the blades and retiring the axe!

7/39/43
01-05-2010, 05:26 PM
If it's not on the Official Site - I'm not believing anything.

Tomlin ain't got the balls to fire Arians.

You can tell him I said that.

I AGREE 100% he has no balls or we would of never had the slide like we did

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:27 PM
tiger needs other kind of coaches than swing coaches..lol

even with mechanics and things, do you really believe ben is going to change? i mean he still holds onto the ball too long...shouldnt the qbs coach try and tell him to get rid of the ball instead of taking so many sacks?

The idea is to have a coach that helps him to NOT change his mechanics when he DOES start to get into bad habits. That is, to keep doing it well instead of slipping into a lower arm slot, not setting his feet, etc.. That is the work of a QB coach.

And I would MUCh rather him hold on to the ball and get sacked. Cause chances are, he will make the play.

Gnutella
01-05-2010, 05:29 PM
I don't want Ben Roethlisberger throwing only 20 to 25 times per game. I don't want him throwing 40 times per game either. I want BALANCE. That means 25 to 35 runs and 25 to 35 passes, depending on the matchup. If the opponent can't stop the run, run more. If the opponent can't stop the pass, throw more.

7/39/43
01-05-2010, 05:30 PM
:tt02::tt03:Yes...Ben holds onto the ball too long and brings a lot of sacks on himself....

BUT....it's a double edged sword. I don't want Ben to change. I want Ben to play the way he has been, even if it means he eats dirt a few extra times a games and loses a few yards.

Suppose some new QB coach tries to change his mindset to getting rid of the ball. Suppose he gets out on the field with this new mindset and starts ditching the ball a second before somebody gets open.

No....let Ben be Ben. I'll take the overwhelming good with the bad in this case.

So he has a few imperfections i am with you dude on this one, just try to protect him a little. If we can keep him standing upright 50% more than they did this year we wouldn't all be sitting here saying let's fire this guy or this guy but then again we might!:tt04::tt04::tt03::drink:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:33 PM
I don't want Ben Roethlisberger throwing only 20 to 25 times per game. I don't want him throwing 40 times per game either. I want BALANCE. That means 25 to 35 runs and 25 to 35 passes, depending on the matchup. If the opponent can't stop the run, run more. If the opponent can't stop the pass, throw more.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

EXACTLY.

If they simply can't stop the pass... then throw the ball 50 times a game.

If they simply can't stop the run... then run the ball 50 times a game.

But all in all, call a balanced game, except where those opportunities present themselves!

TackleMeBen
01-05-2010, 05:36 PM
The idea is to have a coach that helps him to NOT change his mechanics when he DOES start to get into bad habits. That is, to keep doing it well instead of slipping into a lower arm slot, not setting his feet, etc.. That is the work of a QB coach.

And I would MUCh rather him hold on to the ball and get sacked. Cause chances are, he will make the play.
i understand your point preacher. :thumbsup:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:37 PM
I AGREE 100% he has no balls or we would of never had the slide like we did

Non-sequitur. The slide came from a lot of things... NOT because Tomlin wasn't bold enough.

How soon we forget him benching a second rounder, a first round and starting WR last year in a VERY important game, imposing HIS will at camp, putting Casey in the PUP list, etc.

Sorry, his record says just the opposite.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 05:38 PM
So you are comfortable with a scheme that is so precarious, that one injury will doom a season?

you mean like 1 injury to ben?

yes. as long as we can utilize all the offensive talent to score more than 2 tds a game and carry the defense in a time of need.

JUST LIKE last year i was comfortable with an offensive scheme that ignores the power running game and being able to punch a ball into the endzone from 3 yrds (away or shorter) gives up offensive sacks and has a decimated line AS LONG AS the defense can step up and carry them.

one injury will not doom a season as long as one half of the "band of brothers" show the fortitude to do what the other half did the year prior.

the defense allowed 2 td's or fewer in 12 games this year (im not counting fg's).

the offense scored more than 2 td's only 8 times (half the time). that is what i am NOT comfortable with.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:38 PM
i understand your point preacher. :thumbsup:

You will never guess just how scarred I am from O'donnells two INT's in the SB!

NEVER EVER throw the ball away! :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 05:39 PM
Wow. Even a Don Cherry reference! :thumbsup:

I think, in all reality, you and I are probably on the same page, but we are standing back to back, pushing against the extremes.

See, I absolutely agree that you have to be able to run the ball in bad weather. But I also think that you have to be able to throw the ball when you play a defense that can stuff the run, which we do at least twice a year in our own division, maybe 4 times a year, depending on what the Bengals do next year (they were the 4th best against the run this year).

I think it is foolish to think that 4 times a year, we can impose our will on a top 5 rush defense, unless we are willing to throw the ball as much as we run the ball.

!

Preach, even against a top 5 rush defense, you can line up and pound the ball at them, then pass out of those formations to beat them. In the current offense, you cant line up with 5 wide and then run a QB draw to set up the run. Plus, (pardon the chauvinism) football is a mans game, where modern day gladiators line up and demonstrate superiority by kicking the crap out of the guy in front of them.

Its cliche, but to beat a team, you first have to start by beating the man in front of you......and the Offensive line cant do that when they are backing up in pass protection all the time.

As for the Cherry reference, I got Reggie Dunlop, Eddie Shore, Andy Bathgate, Stan Makita and tons more for you if you want too. Trust me, if I need to I can get a torch out and put a real curve on my old PMP and lace em up. (if I can find a wood stick anymore) :wink:

TackleMeBen
01-05-2010, 05:43 PM
You will never guess just how scarred I am from O'donnells two INT's in the SB!

NEVER EVER throw the ball away! :chuckle:
well maybe ben is smart enough to know to throw the ball away to the sidelines, not to the guy in the other color jersey..lol:chuckle:

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:44 PM
you mean like 1 injury to ben?

yes. as long as we can utilize all the offensive talent to score more than 2 tds a game and carry the defense in a time of need.

JUST LIKE last year i was comfortable with an offensive scheme that ignores the power running game and being able to punch a ball into the endzone from 3 yrds (away or shorter) gives up offensive sacks and has a decimated line AS LONG AS the defense can step up and carry them.

one injury will not doom a season as long as one half of the "band of brothers" show the fortitude to do what the other half did the year prior.

the defense allowed 2 td's or fewer in 12 games this year (im not counting fg's).

the offense scored more than 2 td's only 8 times (half the time). that is what i am NOT comfortable with.

Seeing as how our offense was a little above average this year in scoring, I think then, that your scheme is a very dangerous one.

Personally, I'd rather have a scheme where the defense can play as close to 100% as possible even WITH injuries.

Seems to me, last year, all the injuries were on the offense, but they were at least able to come through in the clutch in almost every game. The defense this year couldn't do the same.

Wait a second. last year. Colts, last drive, they scored and won. Titans, destroyed our defense. San Diego, 2 TD's, Ravens, 1 TD, Arizona, 2 TD's.

Nope, we should have NEVER seen this coming this year. :noidea:

Who would have THOUGHT that a pattern of late drives for touchdowns would continue?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 05:44 PM
Hey folks, I never went to that firebrucearians.com website until now, but its funny!!! The mob with torches on the homepage is flat out comical. The posts on it make the normal hate around here seem benign. :rofl:

found this gem:

Ken Laird reported today that Arians is gone but won't be official till the end of the week after his exit interview. I seriously went to the liqour store and got a bottle of champagne and we are partying that this AHOLE is gone. http://firebrucearians.com/index.php?topic=208.0

Preacher
01-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Preach, even against a top 5 rush defense, you can line up and pound the ball at them, then pass out of those formations to beat them. In the current offense, you cant line up with 5 wide and then run a QB draw to set up the run. Plus, (pardon the chauvinism) football is a mans game, where modern day gladiators line up and demonstrate superiority by kicking the crap out of the guy in front of them.

Its cliche, but to beat a team, you first have to start by beating the man in front of you......and the Offensive line cant do that when they are backing up in pass protection all the time.

As for the Cherry reference, I got Reggie Dunlop, Eddie Shore, Andy Bathgate, Stan Makita and tons more for you if you want too. Trust me, if I need to I can get a torch out and put a real curve on my old PMP and lace em up. (if I can find a wood stick anymore) :wink:

:rofl:

I didn't know you played! I remember being in the locker room one time, and this kid pulls out of his bag, 1. baby powder for the stick, 2. vaseline (didn't want to know why), 3. A TORCH 4. sharpening stones... I swear he had a whole workshop in his bag.
(the kid was only 12 years old!)
It was unreal.

A buddy illegally curved my stick. I was a defensemen, standing behind the net. I went to shoot the puck around the boards, and put it over the boards, and over a 8 foot fence on top the boards. 12 feet, from behind the net, on a hard zone clearing wrist shot. I put the stick away after that. :chuckle: (BTW, that's right, we played rep. hockey in a rink with a FENCE as the glass. Can't tell you how many times I caught one of the links between my glove and elbow pad and ripped the crap out of my arms.

___________________
As to our discussion. I agree with you, 10, 15 years ago that is exactly how you beat a team. But today, with the athleticism, size, etc. of players AND all the rule changes, it just isn't that one sided anymore.

You take ANY weakness you see, and exploit it for ALL its worth. Take our defense for example. Notice how many teams pretty much abandoned the run against us, and just went pass pass pass pass. THEN, when we were worn out, run run.

Why? Cause our pass defense was horrible.

I don't advocate abandoning either the pass or the run... I do however, advocate exploitation of weaknesses.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 05:53 PM
Seeing as how our offense was a little above average this year in scoring, I think then, that your scheme is a very dangerous one.

Personally, I'd rather have a scheme where the defense can play as close to 100% as possible even WITH injuries.

Seems to me, last year, all the injuries were on the offense, but they were at least able to come through in the clutch in almost every game. The defense this year couldn't do the same.

Wait a second. last year. Colts, last drive, they scored and won. Titans, destroyed our defense. San Diego, 2 TD's, Ravens, 1 TD, Arizona, 2 TD's.

Nope, we should have NEVER seen this coming this year. :noidea:

Who would have THOUGHT that a pattern of late drives for touchdowns would continue?

so the steelers allowed 13 ppg last season, went 15-4 and won the superbowl, had one of the most dominant defenses seen in years and you wanna complain about 4 losses?

you do realize that losses do happen? or are you one of those silly fans fansince is always talking about who expects the steelers to go 19-0 every season and allow no points and no yards in every game?

it is football. chances are a team will come back and beat you on a final drive, ore even just beat you a time or 5.

O Sensei
01-05-2010, 05:53 PM
Hope its true, pray he's gone. I am completely baffled why anyone rooting for this team that witnessed every game this year would think otherwise. The guy calls a crap game, has no clue how to properly utilize a rushing attack, let alone stud backs, completely ignores obvious trends, advantages and scenarios and unless it's so damn subtle it can't be seen...does not adjust his gameplan much at all based on the opposing defense.

I think he's brilliant at designing plays, completely useless in recognizing where to use them and has ridden the coattails of an extraordinary talent at QB. Just my opinion, could be wrong.

Glace
01-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Hey folks, I never went to that firebrucearians.com website until now, but its funny!!! The mob with torches on the homepage is flat out comical. The posts on it make the normal hate around here seem benign. :rofl:

found this gem:

Ken Laird reported today that Arians is gone but won't be official till the end of the week after his exit interview. I seriously went to the liqour store and got a bottle of champagne and we are partying that this AHOLE is gone. http://firebrucearians.com/index.php?topic=208.0

Here's my personal favorite in response to if Arians is NOT fired....

if hes not im going to remove my scrotum with a sharpend beer bottle cap!

Doubt he makes good on that....but still entertaining.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 06:00 PM
:rofl:

I didn't know you played! I remember being in the locker room one time, and this kid pulls out of his bag, 1. baby powder for the stick, 2. vaseline (didn't want to know why), 3. A TORCH 4.. . .

It was unreal.

As to our discussion. I agree with you, 10, 15 years ago that is exactly how you beat a team. But today, with the athleticism, size, etc. of players AND all the rule changes, it just isn't that one sided anymore.

You take ANY weakness you see, and exploit it for ALL its worth. Take our defense for example. Notice how many teams pretty much abandoned the run against us, and just went pass pass pass pass. THEN, when we were worn out, run run.

Why? Cause our pass defense was horrible.

I don't advocate abandoning either the pass or the run... I do however, advocate exploitation of weaknesses.

Yeah, ever hear of somebody putting an edge on a visor so you cut your hand trying to take it off in a fight??? Honorable thing to do is take it off, but not when you are 16.

I think the Jets have built a solid offense behind that great O line, with Thomas Jones. All they need is Sanchez to mature and get a legit WR. If the Steelers approached the game like Brian Schottenheimer does with the Jets..... the offense would have beaten more teams on the scoreboard and into submission.

Imagine Ben, Hines, Heath, Santo, Mendenhall behind that O line with Tony Richardson at FB.............frightening how much better their run game would be with the best blocking TE in football. Then if they try and pack 8 in the box......Ben picks his spot with Holmes, Ward or Miller. WOW!!

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:01 PM
so the steelers allowed 13 ppg last season, went 15-4 and won the superbowl, had one of the most dominant defenses seen in years and you wanna complain about 4 losses?

you do realize that losses do happen? or are you one of those silly fans fansince is always talking about who expects the steelers to go 19-0 every season and allow no points and no yards in every game?

it is football. chances are a team will come back and beat you on a final drive, ore even just beat you a time or 5.

Sigh.

Ok Tony. I am going to type this slowly.

I a m t a l k i n g a b o u t p a t t e r n s.

P a t t e r n s.

Y o u k n o w , T h o s e t h i n g s t h a t r e p e a t.


Why? Cause my POINT IS... the PATTERN shows there is a SCHEMING PROBLEM, which got EXPLOITED towards teh end of last year, and was SEVERELY EXPLOITED this year.

Losing Troy and Aaron allowed the exploitation to be WORSE, It allowed even worse team to do what Good teams were able to do.

THAT, is my point.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 06:04 PM
Here's my personal favorite in response to if Arians is NOT fired....



Doubt he makes good on that....but still entertaining.

:rofl: That is hilarious and disturbing at the same time. Some of those guys need to be locked up.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 06:06 PM
Yeah, ever hear of somebody putting an edge on a visor so you cut your hand trying to take it off in a fight??? Honorable thing to do is take it off, but not when you are 16.

I think the Jets have built a solid offense behind that great O line, with Thomas Jones. All they need is Sanchez to mature and get a legit WR. If the Steelers approached the game like Brian Schottenheimer does with the Jets..... the offense would have beaten more teams on the scoreboard and into submission.

Imagine Ben, Hines, Heath, Santo, Mendenhall behind that O line with Tony Richardson at FB.............frightening how much better their run game would be with the best blocking TE in football. Then if they try and pack 8 in the box......Ben picks his spot with Holmes, Ward or Miller. WOW!!how bout the 38 year old richardson completely blowing people up the other night?

not just scrub bungle back ups, but top ten draft picks like k. rivers. i heard a great interview with mangold yesterday. they absolutely LOVE all the pulling, and running, and being able to isolate on a cb and destroy them. they love the G-power and the leadership faneca has brought (i still cant believe people STILL think he is making it to the pro bowl on name alone), and being the #1 rushing offense in the league.

Dino 6 Rings
01-05-2010, 06:09 PM
Ok, just read through 16 pages of rumor. Interesting.

First to Preacher, I know for a fact I posted maybe last week, or the week before, all the SuperBowl Victories over the last say...10 years I think and the only team that Won with less Rushing Yards than the opponent was the Rams, over Titans. Pretty sure that's accurate. Even when the Colts Won the Super Bowl, they had more rushing yards, by a bunch over the Bears. The Bears lost because of a Key Late INT Return for TD in that game.

I get you want Balance Preacher, but 60% passing, and Passing in Cleveland this season, and Passing almost 75% of the time on 3rd and Short isn't Balance. That's the key for most of us "haters".

Plus, one person pointed out they found it odd that we completely stopped running the No Huddle. I agree, what happened to the no huddle? Did we even use it once in our 5 game skid when it wasn't a 2 minute drill at the end of the half or game? I don't think we did. I find that, confusing to say the least.

Again, another person mentioned that Arians basically lost his job last year, but it was saved by the Super Bowl, and we can point to, (as I have over and over again) to actual Game Play by Play and point to specific games and situations where the Arians Philosophy of pass first Fails. Colts last year, right before the half, up by 17...throwing the ball...INT, Colts Score, go into halftime with the momentum...and end up winning. I was angry at that game.

People brought up the Browns game this year and previously...I'm going to say this one more time to all the people on this board...The Cleveland Browns are our #1 Rival. How did losing to the Bengals feel? Kind of sucked...losing 1 to the Ravens...yeah...sucked...losing to the Browns??? Made us want to kill people, kill ourselves or Fire Our Offensive Coach. Never ever ever ever ever understimate the importance of a Browns Steelers Game. We Must win Both of those Games every year to make the playoffs. Bottom Line.

I really don't think anyone wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust, and most of us (cept the ben haters) understand that we do in fact have the Best QB under Center that we've had since Terry Bradshaw and we need to use his skills. But Dang it, really, 3rd and 1 4 wide sets? Really? The Colts have won just 1 Superbowl doing that, and even that year, had more rushing yards than the Bears in the game. Think about that, even they knew they had to run the ball to win the Big Game. The throw it around all day long philosophy is just not good. Balance, real Balance 52 - 48, 55 - 45, 51 - 49 Balance. 60-40 is not Balance.

Also, yeah the Defense stunk it up a lot this season. And yes, we had 4 new starters on D that may or may not have been as good as the talent from last year's SB team (Troy and Smith hurt, D-Mac gone, Foote gone) and on offense, we actually were better at the 3rd WR Spot once Wallace came into his own. So injuries hurt us back there, field position, from bad kickoffs also hurt, turnovers, missed scoring chances in the redzone of the other team and FGs instead of TDs all lead to losses.

It was a Total Team Collapse for 5 games, no question. But the idea behind getting rid of Arians is to get rid of the "We Got Greedy With The Pass" Philosophy he refused to recognize was hurting us as much as it was helping us.

He didn't learn from the Lions Game this season, not until the Browns game did he appear to want more balance afterwards and 5 losses in a row.

First team with the ball in OT Twice, and Lost Twice vs KC and Baltimore. Offense got the ball, couldn't get into Field Goal Range Twice. That's not the defense, that's the Offense not getting it done when it mattered. That's the OC in charge of that, he failed those 2 times in OT.

Anyway...lots of time to talk about it...9 months til Kickoff. Just read all this and wanted to throw out my thoughts and opinions.

St33lersguy
01-05-2010, 06:11 PM
Oh my god pleeeaaaaaaase be true

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah, ever hear of somebody putting an edge on a visor so you cut your hand trying to take it off in a fight??? Honorable thing to do is take it off, but not when you are 16.

I think the Jets have built a solid offense behind that great O line, with Thomas Jones. All they need is Sanchez to mature and get a legit WR. If the Steelers approached the game like Brian Schottenheimer does with the Jets..... the offense would have beaten more teams on the scoreboard and into submission.

Imagine Ben, Hines, Heath, Santo, Mendenhall behind that O line with Tony Richardson at FB.............frightening how much better their run game would be with the best blocking TE in football. Then if they try and pack 8 in the box......Ben picks his spot with Holmes, Ward or Miller. WOW!!

See, and THIS is why I say we are on the same page. The only caveat, is that I would also like us to able to come out and spread teams out from the beginning to beat them. Remember when that was the gameplan against the Steelers? Spread our defense out and pass pass pass? It just tore us up.

LIke I have been saying. it is all about balance, being able to counter a run stopping defense with a pass strong offense, countering a pass stopping defense with a run strong offense.

_____

I used to get a guy in the slot, put a skate behind them, and my arm/elbow in front of them, on their chest. Then, when the ref was looking, I would kick out their leg, push their chest back, and flip out my other arm... drving them into the ice. They would get called for interference as well, as it looked like they pulled me down.

I was a C H E A P, C H E A P player.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Ok, just read through 16 pages of rumor. Interesting.

First to Preacher, I know for a fact I posted maybe last week, or the week before, all the SuperBowl Victories over the last say...10 years I think and the only team that Won with less Rushing Yards than the opponent was the Rams, over Titans. Pretty sure that's accurate. Even when the Colts Won the Super Bowl, they had more rushing yards, by a bunch over the Bears. The Bears lost because of a Key Late INT Return for TD in that game.

I get you want Balance Preacher, but 60% passing, and Passing in Cleveland this season, and Passing almost 75% of the time on 3rd and Short isn't Balance. That's the key for most of us "haters". .

I get what your saying... but the STATS were the winning teams RUNS versus the WINNING TEAMS passes. The winning team PASSED as much or more than they ran.

As for the rest, well, I think I have made myself clear on the balance issue :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 06:15 PM
how bout the 38 year old richardson completely blowing people up the other night?

not just scrub bungle back ups, but top ten draft picks like k. rivers. i heard a great interview with mangold yesterday. they absolutely LOVE all the pulling, and running, and being able to isolate on a cb and destroy them. they love the G-power and the leadership faneca has brought (i still cant believe people STILL think he is making it to the pro bowl on name alone), and being the #1 rushing offense in the league.

Yeah, I can sooooo see how Mangold and the O line would love that. I bet they think of Richardson as one of them too and not a guy that belongs in RB meetings.

The coolest thing in offenses like that is when the end of the game comes........the O line would LOVE to line up and play another 15 minutes...while the opposing D-line cant get to the locker room fast enough.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Sigh.

Ok Tony. I am going to type this slowly.

I a m t a l k i n g a b o u t p a t t e r n s.

P a t t e r n s.

Y o u k n o w , T h o s e t h i n g s t h a t r e p e a t.


Why? Cause my POINT IS... the PATTERN shows there is a SCHEMING PROBLEM, which got EXPLOITED towards teh end of last year, and was SEVERELY EXPLOITED this year.

Losing Troy and Aaron allowed the exploitation to be WORSE, It allowed even worse team to do what Good teams were able to do.

THAT, is my point.

i am gonna start calling you Master P. reacher.... or just "reacher", because you are really reaching.

dick lebeaus scheme has suddenly been figured out because teams have tape on it from last year??? :rofl:

lebeaus scheme >>>>> arians offensive philosophy and day of the week and in any era.

since you have ignored and sidestepped every fact and stat i have offered you, lets just get down to the basics-

are you aware of the "4 minute offense" and what purpose it serves? weve ran it like once in the past 3 years and it appeared to be when ben had a wounded wing....

T&B fan
01-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Dino 6 Rings you have it right :thumbsup: and to add to it last yr the O was not as good so the D steped up and did more to help win games . this yr the D was down and the O was, well its been said enf ....

Ravenssuck
01-05-2010, 06:24 PM
Praise GOD!!!!!!!!!! Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MACH1
01-05-2010, 06:25 PM
NFLN just reported that the special team coach and one or two staffers will be replaced.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:27 PM
i am gonna start calling you Master P. reacher.... or just "reacher", because you are really reaching.

dick lebeaus scheme has suddenly been figured out because teams have tape on it from last year??? :rofl:

lebeaus scheme >>>>> arians offensive philosophy and day of the week and in any era.

since you have ignored and sidestepped every fact and stat i have offered you, lets just get down to the basics-

are you aware of the "4 minute offense" and what purpose it serves? weve ran it like once in the past 3 years and it appeared to be when ben had a wounded wing....

Sigh.

Talk about sidestepping

lebeaus scheme >>>>> arians offensive philosophy

My ongoing discussion with you about this has NOTHING to do with Arians. It has EVERYTHING to do with how this defensive system has a weakness... that seams get exploited... Or do you forget Seattle walking down the field on us quite a few times as well in SB 40, by simply hitting seams in quick passes. Have you blocked out 2006 completely?

See Tony, you want to make this into a Arians vs. Lebeau thing. That is because, on defensive stats alone, there is a problem that just plugging Troy and Aaron back into won't fix.

Please don't try to change the discussion midstream. The discussion between us, from the beginning was, Troy's absence isn't the single cause for our defensive failure. Then aaron got hurt, so he got added to the discussion.

My POINT.. that is, showing a PATTERN, shows that the problems have existed since BEFORE troy was hurt.

Now, dink, dunk, weave, do what you want. But that has been the statistics I have constantly been giving (how many times have I quoted last years playoffs) and you constanty ignore it, ignoring the pattern.

So. Say it plainly. Am I making up the 5 bad fourth quarters out of the last six games in 2008? Am I making up the horrible fourth quarters this year? 14 points in HOW MANY 4th quarters... to team like the RAIDERS and CHIEFS?

Is that NOT a pattern? Just random chance over and over and over and over?

Jmat
01-05-2010, 06:28 PM
I didn't like the defense blowing double digit leads. When will they announce Dick LeBeau's firing?

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:29 PM
NFLN just reported that the special team coach and one or two staffers will be replaced.

Thank goodness. I can't wait to see who we get!



Funny, it seems like Christmas!

Nadroj 20
01-05-2010, 06:29 PM
I get home and i see this for the first time and im very interested

I actually dont care either way, if its true ok i trust the steelers and i did question some of his descions, BUT

If not fine because I do not blame him for the majority of the problems the Steelers had this season (that would be the D).

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:30 PM
I didn't like the defense blowing double digit leads. When will they announce Dick LeBeau's firing?


Shhhh. Dick Lebeau is a god. He can do no wrong!

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 06:33 PM
Remember when that was the gameplan against the Steelers? Spread our defense out and pass pass pass? It just tore us up.

Since when is this past tense?

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:37 PM
Since when is this past tense?

:rofl:


Shhhhh.

The problem is our 4 minute offense!

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 06:42 PM
Sigh.

Talk about sidestepping



My ongoing discussion with you about this has NOTHING to do with Arians. It has EVERYTHING to do with how this defensive system has a weakness... that seams get exploited... Or do you forget Seattle walking down the field on us quite a few times as well in SB 40, by simply hitting seams in quick passes. Have you blocked out 2006 completely?

See Tony, you want to make this into a Arians vs. Lebeau thing. That is because, on defensive stats alone, there is a problem that just plugging Troy and Aaron back into won't fix.

Please don't try to change the discussion midstream. The discussion between us, from the beginning was, Troy's absence isn't the single cause for our defensive failure. Then aaron got hurt, so he got added to the discussion.

My POINT.. that is, showing a PATTERN, shows that the problems have existed since BEFORE troy was hurt.

Now, dink, dunk, weave, do what you want. But that has been the statistics I have constantly been giving (how many times have I quoted last years playoffs) and you constanty ignore it, ignoring the pattern.

So. Say it plainly. Am I making up the 5 bad fourth quarters out of the last six games in 2008? Am I making up the horrible fourth quarters this year? 14 points in HOW MANY 4th quarters... to team like the RAIDERS and CHIEFS?

Is that NOT a pattern? Just random chance over and over and over and over?

reacher, you are really doing nothing but playing football on paper. all these patterns you are seeing are consequeces of actually playing football. all teams will score. no defensive scheme is perfect.

what you are saying about "seams" is nothing new or revolutionary. it has been known for years (going back to the 90's) that the only real weaknes of a well executed 3-4 "fire zone blitz" scheme is the seam up the middle ASSUMING you actually have the offensive player to execute it.

frank wycheck frequently exploited it. the ravens brought in shannon sharpe and drafted todd heap because of it. they brought in the eagles TE lewis from last year because of it.

the point being heap and wycheck frequently found success, and having to face these 2 teams twice a year we had to find an answer.

you know what that ANSWER was? they went out and scouted the perfect player to FIT THE SCHEME. they targeted polamalu in the draft and moved up to get him. they rewarded him with a 2nd contract and made him the 2nd highest paid safety in the game.

teh drawback of having a GREAT player is that it hurts you when they go down due to an injury.

we saw it last year when the patriots missed going to the playoffs by losing a tiebreaker.

anyone think the giants would be the same without lawrence taylor? anyone think brett favre has a SB ring w/o reggie white?

i still dont understand why steelerfans of all people refuse to give polamalu his due. :banging:

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 06:43 PM
I didn't like the defense blowing double digit leads. When will they announce Dick LeBeau's firing?

Ah, you just violated the little-known 11th Commandment - thou shalt not criticize Dick LeBeau! You shall be flogged for your sin!!

(This post does not mean I think LeBeau should be fired. If I ever do say that, get me to the loony bin stat, because I've probably lost my mind. However, that does NOT mean he is beyond criticism. He is not.)

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 06:45 PM
Shhhh. Dick Lebeau is a god. He can do no wrong!

:rofl:


Shhhhh.

The problem is our 4 minute offense!

hello "strawman" argument? :coffee:

thats ok... i will give you time to research the "4 minute offense".

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 06:48 PM
Ah, you just violated the little-known 11th Commandment - thou shalt not criticize Dick LeBeau! You shall be flogged for your sin!!

(This post does not mean I think LeBeau should be fired. If I ever do say that, get me to the loony bin stat, because I've probably lost my mind. However, that does NOT mean he is beyond criticism. He is not.)

is this the type of mockery you were talking about earlier?

like i said... people reap what they sow.

but while youre at it, i would love to hear any constructive critisism you have for the man.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 06:48 PM
NFLN just reported that the special team coach and one or two staffers will be replaced.

So, Ligashesky and the asst ST coach will be fired??? I knew this was all too good to be true. :doh:

SH-Rock
01-05-2010, 06:51 PM
Everyone that thinks Lebeau should be fired is an idiot

43Hitman
01-05-2010, 06:52 PM
Everyone that thinks Lebeau should be fired is an idiot

You're right. Good thing no one here is.

MACH1
01-05-2010, 06:53 PM
So, Ligashesky and the asst ST coach will be fired??? I knew this was all too good to be true. :doh:

In addition to airians.

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 06:53 PM
i still dont understand why steelerfans of all people refuse to give polamalu his due. :banging:

Tony, we all understand and realize Troy's value to the team, and yes, it DOES hurt when he is out of the lineup, no doubt. We're talking about a guy who, when healthy, is one of the best players in the game at any position. But that still does not mean we shouldn't expect a Troy-less defense to get the job done against the dregs of the league like the Matt Cassel-led Chiefs with their best WR suspended at the time, and the Bruce Gradkowski-led Raiders with 2 scrub WRs that nobody ever heard of, and their best receiver (Zach Miller) out of the lineup, late in both games. Bottom line is they FAILED, and they deserve all of the criticism they get.

SH-Rock
01-05-2010, 06:54 PM
They should be all over Bobby April's ass

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:55 PM
hello "strawman" argument? :coffee:

thats ok... i will give you time to research the "4 minute offense".

That's right. ONly Tony is allowed to use tonylogic!

X-Terminator
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
is this the type of mockery you were talking about earlier?

like i said... people reap what they sow.

but while youre at it, i would love to hear any constructive critisism you have for the man.

That's called a JOKE, Tony.

Anyway, to answer your query...how about not making adjustments to the D to cover for Troy being out? Instead of playing the CBs off the ball, a little more press coverage couldn't have hurt to try and buy the pass rush an extra second. How many completions for big gains did we see this season when the pass rush was just a half-second late getting to the QB? Also, taking the foot off the gas late, rather than keeping the pressure on. If you're having success with the pass rush early, as they were in several of those games where they blew leads, why abandon it in the 4th quarter? To me, it makes no sense. Make the opposing team earn everything they get - don't just give it to them.

That good enough for you?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
Tony, I give Troy his due. And I wish I could find the NFLN video around week 5 where Rod Woodson had stats of the number of turnovers and total defense numbers WITH Troy in the lineup and WITHOUT Troy in the lineup. He was amazed how much 1 player can make such a difference.

I still find it comical how the Arians supporters need to deflect the offensive shortcomings by trying to blame Dick LeBeau. He didnt refuse to draft D-line depth the past 3 drafts and make them all old and injured. He didnt cut Anthony Smith, keep Tyrone Carter and think Ryan Mundy was the answer to depth. He didnt pin the ILB depth on Keyaron Fox and Donovan Woods.

But, I do blame Dick Lebeau for running the same defense that was #1 vs the pass in 2008 and making it pourus in 2009 without McFadden and Polamalu(for 11 games) He should have mixed up the calls with scrubs like Carter and Gay in there. :doh:

Can the defensive critics please offer an alternative as to how Lebeau should have coached diffferently?? I am curious to know what the guru's would improve.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 06:59 PM
reacher, you are really doing nothing but playing football on paper. all these patterns you are seeing are consequeces of actually playing football. all teams will score. no defensive scheme is perfect.

what you are saying about "seams" is nothing new or revolutionary. it has been known for years (going back to the 90's) that the only real weaknes of a well executed 3-4 "fire zone blitz" scheme is the seam up the middle ASSUMING you actually have the offensive player to execute it.

frank wycheck frequently exploited it. the ravens brought in shannon sharpe and drafted todd heap because of it. they brought in the eagles TE lewis from last year because of it.

the point being heap and wycheck frequently found success, and having to face these 2 teams twice a year we had to find an answer.

you know what that ANSWER was? they went out and scouted the perfect player to FIT THE SCHEME. they targeted polamalu in the draft and moved up to get him. they rewarded him with a 2nd contract and made him the 2nd highest paid safety in the game.

teh drawback of having a GREAT player is that it hurts you when they go down due to an injury.

we saw it last year when the patriots missed going to the playoffs by losing a tiebreaker.

anyone think the giants would be the same without lawrence taylor? anyone think brett favre has a SB ring w/o reggie white?

i still dont understand why steelerfans of all people refuse to give polamalu his due. :banging:


The problem there dear Tony,

is that it wasn't TE's that were eating us up... and the Seahawks were playing AGAINST TROY in SB 40, as were the teams in 5 out of 6 games last year.

So it seems, or seams, (a little derrida humor for ya), that there are MORE problems than Troy being out.

I still don't understand why Troy fans think he would help all 10 other players tackle better, for instance :banging:

BTW, no one is taking away from Troy. Talk about a strawman. What people are saying is that some of our problems have NOTHING TO DO with Troy, or the areas he would have covered.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 07:02 PM
That's right. ONly Tony is allowed to use tonylogic!

do you have anything on the 4 minute offense?

how bout the weak link in the fire zone being "figured out" years ago?

anything on why players such as heap and polamalu had such a high draft pick spent on them (when troy was drafted teams rarely spent a 1st round pick on a safety- it became pretty routine after him though)?

anything on the steelers defense only allowing 2 td's or fewer 12 times this season, whereas the offense could only muster up more than 2 eight times?

or are you just out of gas and running on fumes? :fart:

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 07:02 PM
I have already popped open the old champagne bottle in the fridge...

All i want for 2010 is someone who can run an offense.

Bluedust
01-05-2010, 07:04 PM
I have already popped open the old champagne bottle in the fridge...

All i want for 2010 is someone who can run an offense.

What do you believe was run this year?

Preacher
01-05-2010, 07:07 PM
Tony, I give Troy his due. And I wish I could find the NFLN video around week 5 where Rod Woodson had stats of the number of turnovers and total defense numbers WITH Troy in the lineup and WITHOUT Troy in the lineup. He was amazed how much 1 player can make such a difference.

I still find it comical how the Arians supporters need to deflect the offensive shortcomings by trying to blame Dick LeBeau. He didnt refuse to draft D-line depth the past 3 drafts and make them all old and injured. He didnt cut Anthony Smith, keep Tyrone Carter and think Ryan Mundy was the answer to depth. He didnt pin the ILB depth on Keyaron Fox and Donovan Woods.

But, I do blame Dick Lebeau for running the same defense that was #1 vs the pass in 2008 and making it pourus in 2009 without McFadden and Polamalu(for 11 games) He should have mixed up the calls with scrubs like Carter and Gay in there. :doh:

Can the defensive critics please offer an alternative as to how Lebeau should have coached diffferently?? I am curious to know what the guru's would improve.

Well, I am no guru (just happen to notice patterns).

But I have to wonder why we were consistantly rushing 3 or 4 guys in the fourth quarter when it wasn't working. Why not bring 5-6, overload a side, overload the middle, Bring some more corner blitzes from teh slot position when team are line up three wide.

I know we sat back a LOT because we didn't want to get beat over the top. But I have to wonder how well it was working. Not much, it seems.

From what I remember, we went into a cover-2 shell, and was eaten up throughout the last quarter time and again.

I really don't mind the cover-2, but when it isn't working, something needs to change.

Lebeau did get aggressive in a few games... Vikings for instance, and look what happened.
________________________

The funny thing is, I believe the offense is 100 percent responsible for the offense.

The defense is 100 percent responsible for the defense.

But it sure is difficult having a conversation on this forum without the blame devolving to Bruce Arains. I am quite surprised no one has blamed the special teams on him.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 07:09 PM
I still don't understand why Troy fans think he would help all 10 other players tackle better, for instance :banging:
.

theres this guy named chris johnson. he just broke marshall faulks nfl record for the most yards from scrimmage in an entire nfl season. he also became the 6th man in nfl history to rush for 2000 yds.

did you happen to see troy tackle him in the season opener. you notice how troy was able to direct him to the outside as opposed to having cut lanes up the middle? notice the great int troy made?

all the credit for winning that game is given to the offense and the overtime drive, ignoring the fumble 2 steps from the endzone that sent it into OT in the first place.

isnt that right? according to an earlier post there are only 2 games the offense didnt win when the steelers defense allowed less than one TD?

do you still wanna back that up or minnesota vikings?

Preacher
01-05-2010, 07:11 PM
do you have anything on the 4 minute offense?

how bout the weak link in the fire zone being "figured out" years ago?

anything on why players such as heap and polamalu had such a high draft pick spent on them (when troy was drafted teams rarely spent a 1st round pick on a safety- it became pretty routine after him though)?

anything on the steelers defense only allowing 2 td's or fewer 12 times this season, whereas the offense could only muster up more than 2 eight times?

or are you just out of gas and running on fumes? :fart:

No, I am still waiting for yo to answer questions I posed over a week ago, before we move on to new questions.

So... Go ahead, take the rest of the day, think through it. I have to do some work today, and will be gone for a seminar tomorrow (actually some bible computer software that I have strange feeling, you would really enjoy based on our other conversations, I'll PM you on it). I pop back on tomorrow night and see if you have actually addressed my questions... then we will conversate... then move on to some of yours, which are good questions. But I have learned over the last year and a half of watch you in political chats. One issue, one topic, on question at a time until it is well answered.

Bluedust
01-05-2010, 07:12 PM
theres this guy named chris johnson. he just broke marshall faulks nfl record for the most yards from scrimmage in an entire nfl season. he also became the 6th man in nfl history to rush for 2000 yds.

did you happen to see troy tackle him in the season opener. you notice how troy was able to direct him to the outside as opposed to having cut lanes up the middle? notice the great int troy made?

all the credit for winning that game is given to the offense and the overtime drive, ignoring the fumble 2 steps from the endzone that sent it into OT in the first place.

isnt that right? according to an earlier post there are only 2 games the offense didnt win when the steelers defense allowed less than one TD?

do you still wanna back that up or minnesota vikings?

The problem is you're only dealing in extremes, this whole team sucked balls at times this year, you just can't admit the defense has as well.

It must be tiring to white knight a defensive unit that gave up 5 4th quarter leagues, but whatever.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 07:15 PM
But I have to wonder why we were consistantly rushing 3 or 4 guys in the fourth quarter when it wasn't working. Why not bring 5-6, overload a side, overload the middle, Bring some more corner blitzes from teh slot position when team are line up three wide.


I really don't mind the cover-2, but when it isn't working, something needs to change.


.

"get that application in" :wink02:

oh, and we do not have any "bump and run"/press coverage cornerbacks on our roster.

they do not fit our scheme. but i thought you already knew that.

it really just sounds like you are tired of our entire defensive scheme and the personel we have to run it and would like a complete overhaul, when the easiest and simple answer is to find a freaking o-coord who can figure out how to score a few points more with the most talented offense we have had since the 70's.

i am in favor of the correct and ultimate decision before it is even made. while i dont know the rooneys, i definitely am familiar with the "rooney way". :tt03:

SteelMusic
01-05-2010, 07:16 PM
OMG! Just jizzed my pants. Hope its true, 'bout to pop a bottle to this.

theplatypus
01-05-2010, 07:19 PM
So this is the officially a rumor thread

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 07:20 PM
The problem is you're only dealing in extremes, this whole team sucked balls at times this year, you just can't admit the defense has as well.

It must be tiring to white knight a defensive unit that gave up 5 4th quarter leagues, but whatever.easy there, troll.

what about the defensive unit who held 4th quarter leads in 11 other games?

and learn to read ALL MY POSTS on the matter before you tell me what i have and havent admitted. youre barking up the wrong tree, and youre selective browsing will only leave you looking clueless.

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
The problem is you're only dealing in extremes, this whole team sucked balls at times this year, you just can't admit the defense has as well.

It must be tiring to white knight a defensive unit that gave up 5 4th quarter leagues, but whatever.

yes the defence was bad during the 4th quarter, but they were ranked #5 total in the league hilst offense was #11....

defence statistically did better than the offense in many ways, vise versa.

just because ben passed for 4000 yards does not mean bruce arians is awesome, he passes for that many because he threw for that many, look at redzone %...

bruce arians never should be labelled offensive mastermind of the 2008 steelers, it was defence the whole season with ben at the end of games.

goodbye bruce your contract is now terminated

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Well, I am no guru (just happen to notice patterns).

But I have to wonder why we were consistantly rushing 3 or 4 guys in the fourth quarter when it wasn't working. Why not bring 5-6, overload a side, overload the middle, Bring some more corner blitzes from teh slot position when team are line up three wide.

I know we sat back a LOT because we didn't want to get beat over the top. But I have to wonder how well it was working. Not much, it seems.

From what I remember, we went into a cover-2 shell, and was eaten up throughout the last quarter time and again.

. OK, finally a suggestion of alternative. Although I dont know that we bring 6 defenders that often, or should in 3rd and 5 situations. Of course you know a zone blitz isnt always predicated on sending more than can be blocked, but from different directions.

I believe that in a nickel defense, Lebeau could have blitzed more often while still only sending 4 or 5. The only problem is that its easier to do when Troy is in the game instead of Ty Carter or Ryan Mundy. Neither of them can cover as much ground or has the instincts. Also, because Carter is much slower......it probably leaves Clark shading more to his side to cover for him too.

I like the suggestion, but I still contend that its more difficult to do without decent talent. Aaron Smith pushed the pocket in passing situations and allowed rush lanes for Woodley and Keisel, Polamalu covered more ground in passing situations than Carter and Gay was a step down from McFadden. The replacements had a chance to step up and didnt perform.

Offensively, the O line and running backs didnt have chances to convert on the ground as they were rarely given an opportunity.

Ricco Suavez
01-05-2010, 07:37 PM
So far no confirmed reports. Only conjecture and obscure web sites. The biggest difference between last year and this year was the Defense was able to bail out some horrible Offensive play last year and this year the Offense could not cover an injury ridden Defense. No lead was safe this year, Is there any member who if told before this season began that we would have fourth quarter leads of ten or more points in most of the games we lost would have been happy with the chance this Defense normally gives us.

BTW do not give me any more of this crap about time of possession, we were fourth in the NFL in time of possession, even improved from last year. Don't believe me look it up. The most telling thing a person could look at is just two items in this years team play and IMO the reason we are sitting at 9-7. First the turnover margin, guys we dropped like the stock market from last year and another tidbit is what other teams did to us on third downs. Ready for it, we rated near the bottom of the league in both.

Now before words are put in my mouth, I firmly believe and want LeBeau back. I think he will work out of this funk we fell in. But in the same breath I am sick and tired of all this witch hunt about Arians. If the FO deems to let him go so be it. I hope it turns out to be the best for the team. BUT whether you believe it or not we could be doing a lot worse. Be careful what you wish for is all I am saying.

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 08:06 PM
So this is the officially a rumor thread

So far.

Correct



Lots of wishful hive mind thinking.



I still say Tomlin ain't got the balls.

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 08:13 PM
easy there, troll.




I can't tell the trolls from the retards anymore, this thread sucks.

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 08:17 PM
i like arians. i like the banana bunch. i like the fact that he seemed to be the main one to believe in ben running his own offense and being capable of throwing for 500 yds to win a game. i like the 2 times he ran the ball with legursky as a fullback, and the 1 time he allowed willie to rush for over 200 yds (breaking a team record). i like that he showed spaeth can be an actual receiving tight end in this game that 1 time miller was injured.

other than that, not so much.

it would be fine w/ me if this was just a scare tactic to get his head screwed on straight, but something tells me the steelers org is above playing those types of games.

i think the CFL is calling, bruce!

Psyychoward86
01-05-2010, 08:21 PM
legit reasons why Bruce is fired:

1) Terribad red zone offense

2) Predictable play calling

3) http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/sexorcisst/arians.jpg

devilsdancefloor
01-05-2010, 08:31 PM
this thread kinda reminds me of the year in junior high when the boob fairy visited some girls during the summer and all the guys went all uuuhh huh huhh booobs. All i know is the steelrs need to get better at the point of attack in the trenches on both sides of the ball. that is where we are losing games poor pass rush at times exposed our weak secondary. poor blocking period got us in 3rd and longs and then 3 and outs or choking in the redzone. i dont care what your schemes are on O or D if you cant get physical in the trenches you are a mediocre team at best. face it we got old in key positions on d no matter what coach dad did it happened. When you have at best a average Oline asking them to hold there blocks for 5 to 6 or longer seconds to allow pass routes to be run is a bit insane. So what you have is a 8-8 or bingo a 9-7 team. Gotta face it no matter what happens until we get the trenches physical again we are gonna be that mediocre team. :tt04::tt04::tt04:

wootawnee
01-05-2010, 08:32 PM
This is like the longest thread ever.....im only on page 2.....lol

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 08:36 PM
It gets better


I can't tell the trolls from the retards anymore, this thread sucks.

So this is the 'officially a rumor thread'

So far.

Correct



Lots of wishful hive mind thinking.



I still say Tomlin ain't got the balls.

wootawnee
01-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Get Shanahan...........He is an o wizzard......He would probably love workin with Ben....

Shoes
01-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Get Shanahan...........He is an o wizzard......He would probably love workin with Ben....

He's coaching the skins.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 09:06 PM
Get Shanahan...........He is an o wizzard......He would probably love workin with Ben....

And would command $7-$10 million a year, which is around what he got today when he became the 'Skins HEAD COACH. :dang:

Fire Haley
01-05-2010, 09:07 PM
Thank you mods for adding 'RUMOR" to this thread.

I salute you

devilsdancefloor
01-05-2010, 09:23 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81586d39&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Pittsburgh Steelers went through an entire offseason last year with minimal changes on their roster and none on their coaching staff. Winning the Super Bowl made them hesitant to tinker with a winner.

One season later, going 9-7, losing five games in a row and missing the playoffs -- the first Super Bowl champion to do so since the Steelers themselves in 2006 -- made certain that change is inevitable.

in Pittsburgh, the Steelers are one of many teams evaluating their future. Jason La Canfora has the latest on the coaching news around the league. More ...

The Steelers' offseason alterations began Tuesday when quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson retired after three seasons, becoming the first member of coach Mike Tomlin's original 2007 staff to leave. A league source told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora that Anderson, 60, will pursue other career opportunities outside of coaching.

Given the special-teams struggles this season and the philosophical differences that might exist in the organization with the offense's undeniable change of direction, there could be more changes in Pittsburgh.

Tomlin hasn't met with his coaches or team management to consider any staff changes, so reports of any moves are at best premature, La Canfora reports, citing a source with knowledge of the situation.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, largely responsible for abandoning the Steelers' long-standing commitment to the run to lean on a heavily pass-oriented system, was the assistant coach who was most critiqued during the season -- not only from outside the organization, but from within. Tomlin apparently wants Arians back -- quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, not surprisingly, is a major supporter of the coordinator -- but the Steelers' front office isn't believed to be totally in agreement with the abrupt change of direction.

The Steelers' 428 rushing attempts were the second-fewest they have had during a 16-game season except for their 394 attempts in 1991. Their 536 passing attempts were the fourth-most in team history. Big changes, indeed, for a franchise that prides itself on the run.

Tomlin isn't saying when more changes might occur. He began meeting with every player on the team Monday and will talk to all staff members after that, a process that could take most of the week.

"I don't approach making major changes in response to our record, I like to use the term appropriate changes," Tomlin said Tuesday. "Those aren't knee-jerk reactions, those aren't quick decisions. My mentality will always be to make appropriate changes. Big changes is not something I necessarily I buy into."

The Steelers brought back all but two starters from their Super Bowl team this season, but there likely will be more changes than that next season. Among the players unsigned are safety Ryan Clark, kicker Jeff Reed, Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton, right tackle Willie Colon and backup running back Willie Parker, a three-time 1,000-yard rusher.

There also could be a shakeup in the secondary, where safety Tyrone Carter, cornerback Deshea Townsend and Clark might not be back.

While the late-season five-game losing streak that included losses to the Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders and Cleveland Browns kept the Steelers out of the playoffs, Tomlin is more concerned about the team's 2-4 record in the AFC North. They went 6-0 last season, only to be swept by the Cincinnati Bengals while splitting with the Browns and Baltimore Ravens.

"We were 0-3 in the division during that stretch, and that's more disturbing than the 0-5," Tomlin said. "We weren't (dominant in the division), so we're watching. There's a sting that comes from being on the outside looking in."

While the Steelers managed to keep any locker-room issues from becoming public during their slide, Tomlin acknowledged there always will be players who worry first about themselves first and the team second. He wouldn't identify any, but he said the potential problem exists on every team.
Thought fantasy season was over? It's not!

"There's going to be issues and things of that nature and personal agendas and so forth. We had similar issues when we won the Lombardi," Tomlin said. "Anytime you're working with a large number of people, it's going to be tough to have a pure environment, a utopia if you will. I'm a realist that some of those things -- selfishness -- is part of putting together a football team. I didn't think they're anything uniquely different from any other team I've been involved with. I didn't think it was abnormal."

While safety Troy Polamalu's prolonged injury absences contributed to the Steelers' slide -- he missed 11 full games and most of two others -- Tomlin said it's too easy to pick out one or two injuries and blame them for a season gone wrong. Defensive end Aaron Smith also missed much of the season.

"Troy is a unique player, but Baltimore played a lot of football without (safety) Ed Reed" and made the playoffs, Tomlin said.



looks like ken anderson is the only guy gone and he retired and ben and coach t want BA .... please no one hurt yourselves if that is true

lionslicer
01-05-2010, 09:36 PM
Its a Rumor because Tomlin said he's going to make some changes to staff in the comming week(s). I wont believe he is out of here until Tomlin officially fires him. I hope he does.

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 09:46 PM
Wow...talk about an offseason starting off with a ton of drama.

This offseason might just be better than the 2009 season.

If even half of all of the stuff we have read is true...Tomlin needs to remind everyone who the head coach is.

If any...and I mean any...player doesn't want to be a Steeler....show him the door.

devilsdancefloor
01-05-2010, 09:50 PM
Wow...talk about an offseason starting off with a ton of drama.

This offseason might just be better than the 2009 season.

If even half of all of the stuff we have read is true...Tomlin needs to remind everyone who the head coach is.

If any...and I mean any...player doesn't want to be a Steeler....show him the door.

reading some of the articles makes you wonder if those folks will not be shown the door. It will be interesting to see who gets kicked to the curb and who stays

Preacher
01-05-2010, 09:51 PM
"get that application in" :wink02:

oh, and we do not have any "bump and run"/press coverage cornerbacks on our roster.

they do not fit our scheme. but i thought you already knew that.

it really just sounds like you are tired of our entire defensive scheme and the personel we have to run it and would like a complete overhaul, when the easiest and simple answer is to find a freaking o-coord who can figure out how to score a few points more with the most talented offense we have had since the 70's.

i am in favor of the correct and ultimate decision before it is even made. while i dont know the rooneys, i definitely am familiar with the "rooney way". :tt03:

:nono: never said a word about press coverage.

:nono: never said a word about bump and run coverage.

There are other types of coverage, such as man, cover 3, a mixture of cover 2 and man, etc. etc.

Funny... You seem to want to answer things I DONT say, and then twist things I DO say.

Such as, Lebeau and Tomlin will fix it in the offseason. Now, how that gets twisted to wanting a complete overhaul, I don't know. I guess that is just Tonylogic.

It sure is sad however, when scoring a little more than the average NFL team means that our offense is bad. Guess that what happens when the defense can't hold on their own part of the deal this year.

I guess having 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history in 2007 and 2009 isn't enough to help this defense.

Psyychoward86
01-05-2010, 09:55 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81586d39&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The Pittsburgh Steelers went through an entire offseason last year with minimal changes on their roster and none on their coaching staff. Winning the Super Bowl made them hesitant to tinker with a winner.

One season later, going 9-7, losing five games in a row and missing the playoffs -- the first Super Bowl champion to do so since the Steelers themselves in 2006 -- made certain that change is inevitable.
Coaching roundup
With change underway
in Pittsburgh, the Steelers are one of many teams evaluating their future. Jason La Canfora has the latest on the coaching news around the league. More ...

The Steelers' offseason alterations began Tuesday when quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson retired after three seasons, becoming the first member of coach Mike Tomlin's original 2007 staff to leave. A league source told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora that Anderson, 60, will pursue other career opportunities outside of coaching.

Given the special-teams struggles this season and the philosophical differences that might exist in the organization with the offense's undeniable change of direction, there could be more changes in Pittsburgh.

Tomlin hasn't met with his coaches or team management to consider any staff changes, so reports of any moves are at best premature, La Canfora reports, citing a source with knowledge of the situation.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, largely responsible for abandoning the Steelers' long-standing commitment to the run to lean on a heavily pass-oriented system, was the assistant coach who was most critiqued during the season -- not only from outside the organization, but from within. Tomlin apparently wants Arians back -- quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, not surprisingly, is a major supporter of the coordinator -- but the Steelers' front office isn't believed to be totally in agreement with the abrupt change of direction.

The Steelers' 428 rushing attempts were the second-fewest they have had during a 16-game season except for their 394 attempts in 1991. Their 536 passing attempts were the fourth-most in team history. Big changes, indeed, for a franchise that prides itself on the run.

Tomlin isn't saying when more changes might occur. He began meeting with every player on the team Monday and will talk to all staff members after that, a process that could take most of the week.



For more on the Pittsburgh Steelers, check out the latest
from our bloggers.

Blog Blitz: Steelers

"I don't approach making major changes in response to our record, I like to use the term appropriate changes," Tomlin said Tuesday. "Those aren't knee-jerk reactions, those aren't quick decisions. My mentality will always be to make appropriate changes. Big changes is not something I necessarily I buy into."

The Steelers brought back all but two starters from their Super Bowl team this season, but there likely will be more changes than that next season. Among the players unsigned are safety Ryan Clark, kicker Jeff Reed, Pro Bowl nose tackle Casey Hampton, right tackle Willie Colon and backup running back Willie Parker, a three-time 1,000-yard rusher.

There also could be a shakeup in the secondary, where safety Tyrone Carter, cornerback Deshea Townsend and Clark might not be back.

While the late-season five-game losing streak that included losses to the Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders and Cleveland Browns kept the Steelers out of the playoffs, Tomlin is more concerned about the team's 2-4 record in the AFC North. They went 6-0 last season, only to be swept by the Cincinnati Bengals while splitting with the Browns and Baltimore Ravens.

"We were 0-3 in the division during that stretch, and that's more disturbing than the 0-5," Tomlin said. "We weren't (dominant in the division), so we're watching. There's a sting that comes from being on the outside looking in."

While the Steelers managed to keep any locker-room issues from becoming public during their slide, Tomlin acknowledged there always will be players who worry first about themselves first and the team second. He wouldn't identify any, but he said the potential problem exists on every team.
Thought fantasy season was over? It's not!

"There's going to be issues and things of that nature and personal agendas and so forth. We had similar issues when we won the Lombardi," Tomlin said. "Anytime you're working with a large number of people, it's going to be tough to have a pure environment, a utopia if you will. I'm a realist that some of those things -- selfishness -- is part of putting together a football team. I didn't think they're anything uniquely different from any other team I've been involved with. I didn't think it was abnormal."

While safety Troy Polamalu's prolonged injury absences contributed to the Steelers' slide -- he missed 11 full games and most of two others -- Tomlin said it's too easy to pick out one or two injuries and blame them for a season gone wrong. Defensive end Aaron Smith also missed much of the season.

"Troy is a unique player, but Baltimore played a lot of football without (safety) Ed Reed" and made the playoffs, Tomlin said.



(Not sure that was posted before)

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 09:55 PM
reading some of the articles makes you wonder if those folks will not be shown the door. It will be interesting to see who gets kicked to the curb and who stays

Something tells me that..if there are malcontents..that these very players are supposed to be leaders on the team.

If I were to guess....Hampton, Ike and Holmes would be some that would have attitude problems or didn't always give it 100%.

Preacher
01-05-2010, 09:57 PM
OK, finally a suggestion of alternative. Although I dont know that we bring 6 defenders that often, or should in 3rd and 5 situations. Of course you know a zone blitz isnt always predicated on sending more than can be blocked, but from different directions.

I believe that in a nickel defense, Lebeau could have blitzed more often while still only sending 4 or 5. The only problem is that its easier to do when Troy is in the game instead of Ty Carter or Ryan Mundy. Neither of them can cover as much ground or has the instincts. Also, because Carter is much slower......it probably leaves Clark shading more to his side to cover for him too.

I like the suggestion, but I still contend that its more difficult to do without decent talent. Aaron Smith pushed the pocket in passing situations and allowed rush lanes for Woodley and Keisel, Polamalu covered more ground in passing situations than Carter and Gay was a step down from McFadden. The replacements had a chance to step up and didnt perform.

Offensively, the O line and running backs didnt have chances to convert on the ground as they were rarely given an opportunity.

I agree that it is definitely more difficult to do without Troy and Aaron. But what I wonder is, since the alternative wasn't working, what could have we lost?

Of course, I say the same thing about the D that I do the O. I don't know all the situations, the problems, etc. That is why I really don't venture that we should have done THIS instead of THAT when it comes to plays (the Browns fiasco not withstanding... playaction would have been devastating on third down).

But THAT is another reason why I contend, that there is more wrong here than we think. Because I DO believe Lebeau is a great coach. yet THIS is what we got. So there WERE problems, and since the same pattern showed up last playoffs, the problems are not just personnel.

Psyychoward86
01-05-2010, 09:59 PM
Something tells me that..if there are malcontents..that these very players are supposed to be leaders on the team.

If I were to guess....Hampton, Ike and Holmes would be some that would have attitude problems or didn't always give it 100%.

Huh? Why Ike? Holmes has been a huge team player for us. The only trouble he's ever given us is that small run-in with a little bit of marijuana

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 10:13 PM
Huh? Why Ike? Holmes has been a huge team player for us. The only trouble he's ever given us is that small run-in with a little bit of marijuana

It's just a hunch..nothing more. Based upon what Harrison said about people being concerned about personal records and looking at all the starters on the team...Holmes was the one I could see being that way. He has always struck me as a "me" player with his bicep flexing, prancing around after making a first down catch, etc. He, in my opinion, does not sell out like Hines does for the team.

Maybe I shouldn't have included Ike on the list.

supa_fly_steeler
01-05-2010, 10:18 PM
It's just a hunch..nothing more. Based upon what Harrison said about people being concerned about personal records and looking at all the starters on the team...Holmes was the one I could see being that way. He has always struck me as a "me" player with his bicep flexing, prancing around after making a first down catch, etc. He, in my opinion, does not sell out like Hines does for the team.

Maybe I shouldn't have included Ike on the list.

ike doesn't have an ego maybe im bias because i love ike but isn't the quiet kid?

when holmes does his bicep flex, he shows the number something like 415, where he lived as a child... and he points to his sick child who will only live to about 42 because of the sickel cell trait.

ajs8207
01-05-2010, 10:30 PM
It's just a hunch..nothing more. Based upon what Harrison said about people being concerned about personal records and looking at all the starters on the team...Holmes was the one I could see being that way. He has always struck me as a "me" player with his bicep flexing, prancing around after making a first down catch, etc. He, in my opinion, does not sell out like Hines does for the team.

Maybe I shouldn't have included Ike on the list.

Holmes doesn't divide a locker room or throw his quarterback under the bus. Holmes' attitude seems perfectly fine to me. Maybe Hines' attitude is the one that needs adjusting...

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 10:33 PM
Holmes doesn't divide a locker room or throw his quarterback under the bus either...

Ward was probably speaking out what was felt in the locker room. This wouldn't be the first time that the perception of Ben by his teammates wasn't what it should be. Besides, it's becoming clear....with the quotes by Harrison and Hartwig in today's Post Gazette...that there are problems in the locker room that need to be resolved. Bouchette even said that Tomlin admitted this to him on the PG+ Pay site today.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 10:35 PM
Ward was probably speaking out what was felt in the locker room. This wouldn't be the first time that the perception of Ben by his teammates wasn't what it should be.

Even though they voted him team MVP? The "Ben is selfish"/"Ben doesn't get along with his teammates" arguments don't really wash anymore, IMO. And Hines does have a history of popping off when the team would be better served by him keeping his yap shut.

BlastFurnace
01-05-2010, 10:50 PM
Even though they voted him team MVP? The "Ben is selfish"/"Ben doesn't get along with his teammates" arguments don't really wash anymore, IMO. And Hines does have a history of popping off when the team would be better served by him keeping his yap shut.

Honestly, who would have been team MVP other than Ben? No-one on defense. No-one on ST. No-one else on offense other than maybe Hines or Heath. It wouldn't be the first time that someone in the locker room had problems with Ben. Even Cowher and Whiz seemed to have issues with him.

I know Hines has a loose cannon at times, but based upon Harrison's comments in today's Post Gazette article, there does seem to be problems in the locker room.

revefsreleets
01-05-2010, 10:56 PM
I'm starting an OFFICIAL rumor that Tomlin and LeBeau are fired.

Mind you, this rumor is OFFICIAL, so it's better than the other, unsubstantiated and unconfirmed bullshit rumors flying around.

fansince'76
01-05-2010, 11:03 PM
Honestly, who would have been team MVP other than Ben? No-one on defense. No-one on ST. No-one else on offense other than maybe Hines or Heath. It wouldn't be the first time that someone in the locker room had problems with Ben. Even Cowher and Whiz seemed to have issues with him.

I know Hines has a loose cannon at times, but based upon Harrison's comments in today's Post Gazette article, there does seem to be problems in the locker room.

I think team MVP probably has to do as much with popularity amongst teammates as it does with performance. If not, why did Harrison win it in '07, when Ben had 6 more TDs and 1 fewer INT on the season than he did this year? And if Hines was simply voicing the popular sentiment of the entire locker room, why didn't he get it over Ben this year? I also think it's safe to say Ben has matured quite a bit since Whiz and the Chin were in town.

revefsreleets
01-05-2010, 11:36 PM
This RUMOR is straight from PFT, I mean it was literally cribbed word for word....and even PFT was backpeddling saying that this one guy from one station in Pittsburgh was the ONLY guy reporting this. NOT ESPN, ONE GUY who works at ESPN radio in Pittsburgh.

This rumor is a complete joke. PFT is a joke. This thread should be closed immediately.

LamarrWoodleysFade
01-05-2010, 11:44 PM
Guys, I know we're the boring ol' Pittsburgh Steelers but come on, the issues have BEEN existent. This isn't something new for ANY ball club. We have one "bad" year and all these "problems" come out. That's usually how it goes, anyway.

If there's one thing that bothers me about this city and the media it's when we have a "down" year, everybody wants to panic. Everyone loses their mind! . These "issues" aren't as huge as everyone is making them out to be.

It's crazy how much difference a year makes...

tony hipchest
01-05-2010, 11:56 PM
:nono: never said a word about press coverage.

:nono: never said a word about bump and run coverage.

There are other types of coverage, such as man, cover 3, a mixture of cover 2 and man, etc. etc.

Funny... You seem to want to answer things I DONT say, and then twist things I DO say.

Such as, Lebeau and Tomlin will fix it in the offseason. Now, how that gets twisted to wanting a complete overhaul, I don't know. I guess that is just Tonylogic.

It sure is sad however, when scoring a little more than the average NFL team means that our offense is bad. Guess that what happens when the defense can't hold on their own part of the deal this year.

I guess having 2 of the top 11 scoring offenses in Steelers history in 2007 and 2009 isn't enough to help this defense.

P.reacher, you are out thinking yourself like arians, and trying to get too fancy with linguistics and 'schemes".

a cb is either up on the line of scrimmage or off. we do not have on the line of scrimmage, bump nrun, press coverage corners. the closest we have is ike.

this is just like in SB XL.

the entire first half people bitched because ike taylor was playing 10 yards off of darrell jackson and giving up little 6-7 yard passes. (if you dont believe me dig up the sb gameday thread).

but it is what it is. we draft players to fit the scheme. its the same way for the offense. miller, holmes, and hines may not like missing the pro bowl every year, but they sure as hell better be able to learn how to run block or they wont be a steeler for too long.

ben has earned his $100 mil contract, but it is more for wins than it is for 4000 yd passing seasons.

ike taylor has been kept around for more than dropping interceptions.

these guys fit the "scheme".

the only guy who no longer seems to fit the scheme is the guy who is currently the topic of this thread.

i got dan, art II, and tomlin in my corner of belief. not sure about the rest of y'all. :noidea:

devilsdancefloor
01-06-2010, 12:13 AM
This RUMOR is straight from PFT, I mean it was literally cribbed word for word....and even PFT was backpeddling saying that this one guy from one station in Pittsburgh was the ONLY guy reporting this. NOT ESPN, ONE GUY who works at ESPN radio in Pittsburgh.

This rumor is a complete joke. PFT is a joke. This thread should be closed immediately.

you are passionate about BA i will give you that you re almost hyper ventilating. take a deep breath all will be okay. i just wish you would give a player like sweed a little of your passion and not the hatred kind.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 12:17 AM
This thread should be closed immediately.

Why because the almighty Revs says so??? Get over yourself already. Speculating is what fans do, if you don't like it you don't have to participate or even read it for that matter.

Shea
01-06-2010, 12:18 AM
This rumor is a complete joke. PFT is a joke. This thread should be closed immediately.

Thankfully, you aren't a moderator.

Whether you are being serious or not, doesn't matter to me. You seem to be your biggest fan, and sadly should take a step back and realize that you are your ONLY fan. If this post results into you putting me on ignore, then please - just to appease my curiosity - could you tell me what number on that list I would be?

Although this hasn't been "officially" confirmed within the Steelers' organization, I'm betting that the ole adage of "where there is smoke there is fire" is going to come into play here. Arians is gone.

i got dan, art II, and tomlin in my corner of belief. not sure about the rest of y'all. :noidea:

I'm with you. I've been getting what you are saying for awhile in this area. I'm amazed that others, and no disrespect to them, haven't been able to see what is right in front of their face.

43Hitman
01-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Thankfully, you aren't a moderator.

Whether you are being serious or not, doesn't matter to me. You seem to be your biggest fan, and sadly should take a step back and realize that you are your ONLY fan. If this post results into you putting me on ignore, then please - just to appease my curiosity - could you tell me what number on that list I would be?

Although this hasn't been "officially" confirmed within the Steelers' organization, I'm betting that the ole adage of "where there is smoke there is fire" is going to come into play here. Arians is gone.



I'm with you. I've been getting what you are saying for awhile in this area. I'm amazed that others, and no disrespect to them, haven't been able to see what is right in front of their face.

Pretty soon he'll only be reading his posts..:chuckle:

zulater
01-06-2010, 12:27 AM
This RUMOR is straight from PFT, I mean it was literally cribbed word for word....and even PFT was backpeddling saying that this one guy from one station in Pittsburgh was the ONLY guy reporting this. NOT ESPN, ONE GUY who works at ESPN radio in Pittsburgh.

This rumor is a complete joke. PFT is a joke. This thread should be closed immediately.

The "rumor" or story was first reported on ESPN radio and broke by an ESPN radio host who covers the Steelers as part of his job.That doesn't neccesarily make it true ( or untrue) but it certainly makes it newsworthy. And to suggest that such a story isn't worth discussing on a Steelers message board is laughable. :toofunny:

zulater
01-06-2010, 12:40 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_660822.html


From the sounds of it, changes are at hand.

Big changes?

"I like to use the term, 'appropriate changes,'" Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said Tuesday at his season-wrap news conference.

In terms of the coaching staff, a major question looms: Would it be "appropriate" to hire a new offensive coordinator? Tomlin isn't saying he's meeting with players and coaches all week but that would be one bold and risky move.

The Steelers, after all, won the Super Bowl last season on a dramatic drive and finished seventh in the NFL in total offense this season while setting several franchise benchmarks.

What's more, quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has progressed nicely in three years under Arians and appears to enjoy working with him.

Take away Ben's guy, and you're messing with your $102 million franchise centerpiece.

On the other hand, you might be saving your $102 million franchise centerpiece.

See, for all the nice numbers the Steelers have racked up in three seasons under Arians, there are plenty of not-so-nice numbers, starting with this one: Roethlisberger has been sacked 156 times, including playoffs.

Part of that, as we all know, is attributable to Roethlisberger's big-play style. He holds the ball longer than most. Part of it is substandard blocking.

Most of it is the fact that the Steelers have fallen deeply, hopelessly in love with the pass, to the point where one might forget that when Tomlin got here, he claimed to be a "smash-the-run" kind of guy.

Smash-the-run? How about fast-to-pass? The club's media guide goes back to 1969, and this was the only season in which the Steelers ordered at least 100 more passes than runs. That, despite the fact they almost never were in must-pass mode, trailing by double-digits only once.

I asked Tomlin if all the quarterback hits are something he can live with, or something he will try to rectify.

"I'm looking to rectify it in some form or fashion," he said.

Now, I'm not one who believes you need a "smash-the-run" attack to win Super Bowls. Too many teams, including the Steelers, have disproved that theory. But I am one who believes in balance - and that the $102 million quarterback needs to stay in one piece if the Steelers are going to win anything of significance in the near future.

But that's not the only factor at play here. "Points scored" is the most important offensive statistic, and the Steelers don't score enough. In Arians' three seasons, they have yet to finish in the top third of the league. In a full 25 percent of their games this season (four of 16), they scored one offensive touchdown or fewer.

That is unacceptable.

Tomlin began his media address by emphasizing the 2-4 division record as his team's undoing. I'm guessing he wouldn't need to be reminded that in two of those losses, his offense failed to muster a single touchdown.

Red-zone offense is another area of consistent failure.

"Situational football defines us," Tomlin said, "and we were below the line."

The Steelers finished tied for 21st in red-zone offense below the likes of Tampa Bay after finishing a mediocre 15th last season. They failed to put away several games because of red-zone meltdowns.

Let's be honest about last season. The Steelers won their division and the AFC's No. 2 seed largely because the defense would keep them afloat until Roethlisberger could work his late-game magic, often of the sandlot variety.

I'm not saying Arians has been a bust. Not by a long shot. His resume looks a lot better now than it did three years ago, and it wasn't his fault the defense and special teams blew up so often this season.

The question at hand, however, is how this franchise best moves forward with its offensive philosophy. A solid case could be made for keeping Arians, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Tomlin take a pass.

I wouldn't blame him, either.

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 12:40 AM
I can't wait to see who we bring in.

Given the talent on this offense and the veteran presence I really have to think our next OC is going to be someone with plenty of experience and past success as an OC.

What candidates are out there?

If an experienced OC is hired...that would also likely mean he'll bring in his own staff.

steel9guy
01-06-2010, 12:43 AM
I hope he goes. PASSING IN THE 4TH QUATER WITH A 14 POINT LEAD IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN THE CLOCK OUT.

MACH1
01-06-2010, 12:45 AM
I hope he goes. PASSING IN THE 4TH QUATER WITH A 14 POINT LEAD IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN THE CLOCK OUT.

Don't you know thats the D's fault. Not the 30 second, three and outs.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 12:52 AM
HATER!!!!!


like many here...


I'm not saying Arians has been a bust. Not by a long shot. His resume looks a lot better now than it did three years ago, and it wasn't his fault the defense and special teams blew up so often this season.

8 times in a row to be exact.

but the article is pretty much spot on.

if we just tweak that pass/run balance in the slightest we possibly lead the league in TOP and win atleast 11 games (possibly 12) and effectively compensate for the shortcomings of the injured defense and neglected and out coached special teams.

madtowndrunkard
01-06-2010, 12:55 AM
Don't you know thats the D's fault. Not the 30 second, three and outs.


An NFL.com article is saying that Tomlin wants to keep Arians but the front office does not. That's probably already been mentioned here???