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Fifty8
01-06-2010, 06:53 PM
A lot of folks were very excited about the prospect that Arian's was going to be fired and it leaves me scratching my head. I know this post is going to catch a lot of flack, but regardless: Our offense, in my opinion was more dynamic this year than in any year since Wiz and Randle El trick packages. Ben put up 4000+ yds and we had 2 1000 yd rushers. During most of the Cowher era we ran on 1st & 2nd and ran a draw on 3rd or threw on third. Admittedly, a few times Arians completely abandoned the run, and yes that was frustrating, and I would like to see more screens (like the Dolphins game) but overall the offense was reasonably productive and pretty dynamic.

Special Teams and poor secondary play buried us this year.

Bears game (If Reed makes 2 field goals - we win, makes one we at least go to overtime.)

1st Bengals game: D can't hold a lead and goes into prevent mode rather than blitz Palmer. For those who have forgotten, the only thing the Prevent, prevents is winning.

Chiefs game: Special teams allows return for TD

Raiders game: Worst coverage I have ever witnessed by Steeler secondary, EVER
Steeler D shredded by Gradkowski? Give me a break

2nd Bengals game: Steeler O musters 12 pts (Arians to blame here)

2nd Browns game: Most unmotivated flat offense of the year (Arians can get some blame here) but special teams allowed return for TD

So I ask you how many losses do you pin on Arians? I say one maybe 1 1/2

I blame 4 1/2 losses on secondary and special teams.

MACH1
01-06-2010, 06:56 PM
http://robertd.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/beating_a_dead_horse1.jpg

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 07:05 PM
http://robertd.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/beating_a_dead_horse1.jpg

I know, but I could not resist with all the glee and joy about the Arian's rumor.:tt03:

LukesDad88
01-06-2010, 07:29 PM
A lot of folks were very excited about the prospect that Arian's was going to be fired and it leaves me scratching my head. I know this post is going to catch a lot of flack, but regardless: Our offense, in my opinion was more dynamic this year than in any year since Wiz and Randle El trick packages. Ben put up 4000+ yds and we had 2 1000 yd rushers. During most of the Cowher era we ran on 1st & 2nd and ran a draw on 3rd or threw on third. Admittedly, a few times Arians completely abandoned the run, and yes that was frustrating, and I would like to see more screens (like the Dolphins game) but overall the offense was reasonably productive and pretty dynamic.

Special Teams and poor secondary play buried us this year.

Bears game (If Reed makes 2 field goals - we win, makes one we at least go to overtime.)

1st Bengals game: D can't hold a lead and goes into prevent mode rather than blitz Palmer. For those who have forgotten, the only thing the Prevent, prevents is winning.

Chiefs game: Special teams allows return for TD

Raiders game: Worst coverage I have ever witnessed by Steeler secondary, EVER
Steeler D shredded by Gradkowski? Give me a break

2nd Bengals game: Steeler O musters 12 pts (Arians to blame here)

2nd Browns game: Most unmotivated flat offense of the year (Arians can get some blame here) but special teams allowed return for TD

So I ask you how many losses do you pin on Arians? I say one maybe 1 1/2

I blame 4 1/2 losses on secondary and special teams.

Let me play devil's advocate here:

Bears - 35 pass attempts for 22 rushes. A little better balance, and Gould doesn't have those 15 seconds for the last kick.

Cincy (1) - 1 of 3 in the redzone

Cincy (2) - 0 of 4 in the redzone

Chiefs - 3 offensive turn overs. Plus 2 offensive drives in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter netting 17 yards.

Oakland - 2 of 5 in the redzone

and do I even have to go into Cleveland?

stillers4me
01-06-2010, 07:33 PM
It was most definitely a problem. Just not the only problem. ( Ben and Wallace were the bright points of the season.)

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Let me play devil's advocate here:

Bears - 35 pass attempts for 22 rushes. A little better balance, and Gould doesn't have those 15 seconds for the last kick.

Cincy (1) - 1 of 3 in the redzone

Cincy (2) - 0 of 4 in the redzone

Chiefs - 3 offensive turn overs. Plus 2 offensive drives in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter netting 17 yards.

Oakland - 2 of 5 in the redzone

and do I even have to go into Cleveland?

Oakland - we scored 27 pts that should be a win - secondary lost this
Chiefs - see oakland - special teams blew this one
1st Cincy - we scored 23 - should be a win - secondary blew this

2nd Bengals game -- O definitely the problem

I am not saying O was without issues but overall I blame our season on our secondary and special teams failures

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Special teams and conservative defense with the lead. Secondary played fine at the begining of games when we were blitzing and stoping the other team. But 2nd half with the lead, conservative defense, playing the corners back, killed us. Dick Lebeau isn't perfect, he'll look at this season, fix up his mistakes, get some better DB's in general and get the Steal Curtain back.

But when your defense is ailing, you can't expect to try and pass the ball 40 yards down the field every set of downs. You have to use short passes and the run game to keep the ball in the offenses hand and the defense on the side line... 80's 49er's won games with time of possesion, not high scoring offense and greatest defense in the world.

T.Richardson
01-06-2010, 08:27 PM
Special teams and conservative defense with the lead. Secondary played fine at the begining of games when we were blitzing and stoping the other team. But 2nd half with the lead, conservative defense, playing the corners back, killed us. Dick Lebeau isn't perfect, he'll look at this season, fix up his mistakes, get some better DB's in general and get the Steal Curtain back.

But when your defense is ailing, you can't expect to try and pass the ball 40 yards down the field every set of downs. You have to use short passes and the run game to keep the ball in the offenses hand and the defense on the side line... 80's 49er's won games with time of possesion, not high scoring offense and greatest defense in the world.

Did you guys not read X's posts? Didnt he state that the Steelers were 4th in TOP???

Heres some food for thought:

2008: Steelers offense ranked 22nd

2009: Steelers offense ranked 7th

Overall the offense IMPROVED! Now if the Redzone improved, maybe we will see an offense that scores 50 points a game...might not be good enough, but good enough.

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 08:34 PM
Did you guys not read X's posts? Didnt he state that the Steelers were 4th in TOP???

Heres some food for thought:

2008: Steelers offense ranked 22nd

2009: Steelers offense ranked 7th

Overall the offense IMPROVED! Now if the Redzone improved, maybe we will see an offense that scores 50 points a game...might not be good enough, but good enough.

Offense had time of possesion because they keep the ball most of the first half... We'd keep the ball like 20-25 minutes in the 1st half then 5-10 minutes in the 2nd half. Did you not see the Ravens game? the Steelers had the ball for like 40 seconds in the 3rd quarter. Stats don't show the whole game. Like the steelers were the 5th total defense, but were the worst 4th quarter defense. Its the situational stats you have to look at.

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 08:36 PM
Special teams and conservative defense with the lead. Secondary played fine at the begining of games when we were blitzing and stoping the other team. But 2nd half with the lead, conservative defense, playing the corners back, killed us. Dick Lebeau isn't perfect, he'll look at this season, fix up his mistakes, get some better DB's in general and get the Steal Curtain back.

Agreed

But when your defense is ailing, you can't expect to try and pass the ball 40 yards down the field every set of downs. You have to use short passes and the run game to keep the ball in the offenses hand and the defense on the side line... 80's 49er's won games with time of possesion, not high scoring offense and greatest defense in the world.

Valid point, and that part of the criticism I can get with. If Arians had a better run blocking O-line, he may have gone a little more ball control. It sounds like the goal is 50/50 balance when you listen to Tomlin. The inability to run consistently, I think, inhibited the ability to excercise more ball control. I think Arians did an admirable job when you consider what he had to work with. It's the fire Arians sentiment I'm having a hard time with because overall the O was productive.

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 08:40 PM
Valid point, and that part of the criticism I can get with. If Arians had a better run blocking O-line, he may have gone a little more ball control. It sounds like the goal is 50/50 balance when you listen to Tomlin. The inability to run consistently, I think, inhibited the ability to excercise more ball control. I think Arians did an admirable job when you consider what he had to work with. It's the fire Arians sentiment I'm having a hard time with because overall the O was productive.

I personally think Arians doesn't need to be fired, but there were games were we had 5+ yards per carry, and the first time the running game got stuffed, he totally gave up on it. That kind of got under my skin. Especially when the defense relizes we wont run, and attacks the pass and Ben, causing a lot of sacks and a lot of preasure causing 3 and outs.

Monrovia Ca Steeler Fan
01-06-2010, 08:46 PM
Fifty8: I couldn't agree more. The problem this year was centered in the D first and foremost, FIVE blown fourth Q leads!!! The second problem was kickcoverage. A distant third was red zone conversion by the Offense. The D let us down big time this year.

The running game this year actually improved over last year's SB team, averaging 112 yards per game. And of course so many big plays and bombs in the passing game. Really an exciting year for the offense.

This was the first year in memory I never doubted our O's ability to score, while I continously worried that our D could not stop even poor QB's late in the game. Arians had a couple of bad games: notably KC and Cleveland, but the defense had many bad games. If our D played normally this year, we are contenders once again.

beaten by Bruce Gradkowski, Brady Quinn and Matt Cassell? Good lord.

Please give me a better D next year, leave the O basically be.

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 08:51 PM
I personally think Arians doesn't need to be fired, but there were games were we had 5+ yards per carry, and the first time the running game got stuffed, he totally gave up on it. That kind of got under my skin. Especially when the defense relizes we wont run, and attacks the pass and Ben, causing a lot of sacks and a lot of preasure causing 3 and outs.

Sometimes there was an arrogance about going with the called play it seemed, I think part of that falls on Ben's unwillingness to check -- clearly when there is only 6 men in the box on 1st down, the D is daring you to run, to proceed with a pass in that situation is at times baffling. Still, the predictability of the Cowher era is absent, and for that I'm thankful.

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Sometimes there was an arrogance about going with the called play it seemed, I think part of that falls on Ben's unwillingness to check -- clearly when there is only 6 men in the box on 1st down, the D is daring you to run, to proceed with a pass in that situation is at times baffling. Still, the predictability of the Cowher era is absent, and for that I'm thankful.

It isn't even ben not checking, a lot of formations arians puts out there during these plays were the Steelers should be running, are formations impossible to run from. Like no one in the back field, or shot gun formation, or trips bunch. I'm not saying the Steelers should run every down, but don't give up on a running game that can win you the game. Obviously the defense's failures aren't Bruce Arians fault, but its a team, he has to adjust his game plan to help win the game. Tomlin said some of the coaches and players were playing for themselves and not the team, and I think Arians was just being selfish.

Psyychoward86
01-06-2010, 08:57 PM
Bruce Arians did such a jolly good job at making our offense move from our 20 to the other team's 20? Who cares about the redzone, as long as we can move it between that area of the field, it's gotta count for something riiiighhttt? :rolleyes:

steelcity1974
01-06-2010, 09:01 PM
"Offense was not the problem this year"

This statement is flawed. It assumes that there has to be a single problem to point the finger at. The offense was A problem this year. Just like the secondary, the special teams, coaching, and our run defense in some games. Last year our defense carried the offense. This year the defense had a let down, but the offense did not step up to ledgendary status by any stretch. Quote all the 4,000 yards and 1,000 yards you want...bottom line we didn't put teams away when we had a chance (i.e., didn't score enough points!). Can't blame the Chiefs and Raiders losses on the secondary alone when Ben thows picks in the opponets end zones.

BigBen'sSwagger
01-06-2010, 09:25 PM
Agreed



Valid point, and that part of the criticism I can get with. If Arians had a better run blocking O-line, he may have gone a little more ball control. It sounds like the goal is 50/50 balance when you listen to Tomlin. The inability to run consistently, I think, inhibited the ability to excercise more ball control. I think Arians did an admirable job when you consider what he had to work with. It's the fire Arians sentiment I'm having a hard time with because overall the O was productive.

Mendy breaks a huge run for 75 yards and gets to finnish the series then we don't see him for the next 2 series...when he comes back he is cold go figure!!!

When questioned about going empty set on 3rd and 1 in the cleave browns game Tomlin stated...We had the wind at our backs and we wanted to save the run for a more crucial time. If this is the logic of our head coach it is a wonder that we won a single game this year. Why play hard at the begining of the season it's not as crucial as the later games are? Hell why play hard the 1st 1/2 it's not as crucial as the end game? I mean let's just rely on other teams winning to get us in because it wasn't crucial enough for us to win games early. Gosh I wonder why we are looking in from the outside on the post season. This is the same guy who just saved B.A.'s job HMMM

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 10:01 PM
"Offense was not the problem this year"

This statement is flawed...

bottom line we didn't put teams away when we had a chance (i.e., didn't score enough points!). Can't blame the Chiefs and Raiders losses on the secondary alone when Ben thows picks in the opponets end zones.

Steelers scored 27 pts in those games - that is supposed to be winning football in Pittsburgh - I have to put all the blame on lack of D and poor special teams in those games! I don't care if Ben threw 5 picks. We had 27 on the scoreboard and lost!
:banging:

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 10:05 PM
Steelers scored 27 pts in those games - that is supposed to be winning football in Pittsburgh - I have to put all the blame on lack of D and poor special teams in those games! I don't care if Ben threw 5 picks. We had 27 on the scoreboard and lost!
:banging:

Some of those picks were pick sixes. Thats him giving 6 points to the other team for free basically. The whole team is the problem. The Defense and special teams take more blame, but the offense is far from perfect. just because you score 28 points in the first half doesn't mean you are gonna win, you can't just give up on offense and expect to win if you got the lead.

BigBen'sSwagger
01-06-2010, 10:08 PM
How banged up was the offense? Was it missing two of it's premeire stars. We missed Ben for one game and lost. Just sayin'

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 10:09 PM
Mendy breaks a huge run for 75 yards and gets to finnish the series then we don't see him for the next 2 series...when he comes back he is cold go figure!!!

It's called the 2-Back rotation, everyone is doing it, not that I necessarily agrree with it, but that is today's NFL

When questioned about going empty set on 3rd and 1 in the cleave browns game Tomlin stated...We had the wind at our backs and we wanted to save the run for a more crucial time.

Perhaps he had a brain fart, or a political moment most politicians don't answer the question asked they just speak. Does sound dumb though.

If this is the logic of our head coach it is a wonder that we won a single game this year. Why play hard at the begining of the season it's not as crucial as the later games are? Hell why play hard the 1st 1/2 it's not as crucial as the end game? I mean let's just rely on other teams winning to get us in because it wasn't crucial enough for us to win games early. Gosh I wonder why we are looking in from the outside on the post season. This is the same guy who just saved B.A.'s job HMMM

AND the same two guys who helped the Steelers get their 6th Lombardi.:drink:

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 10:16 PM
It's called the 2-Back rotation, everyone is doing it, not that I necessarily agrree with it, but that is today's NFL




2-back rotation was big in the 70's because they ran the ball so much, backs needed to rest a series. I understand rotation between Mendy and Parker, that seems to confuse defenses and allows Parker to get big clumps of yardage. But when the steelers take Mendy out for a whole series, and they don't even run with Parker or Moore, then there's a big question mark above my head. The running game was working, doesn't matter who's running it, don't stop it because there is another back in the backfield.

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 10:24 PM
Some of those picks were pick sixes. Thats him giving 6 points to the other team for free basically. The whole team is the problem. The Defense and special teams take more blame, but the offense is far from perfect. just because you score 28 points in the first half doesn't mean you are gonna win, you can't just give up on offense and expect to win if you got the lead.

None of those were pick 6's, one of them almost was in the chiefs game but D held at the 8, thanks to woodley sack,and they settled for 3 making it 17-17. We scored another 10 & still lost.

Take away their kick-off return for TD - special teams gaff or swiss cheese secondary in 4th qtr we win that.

Raiders game was nothing but sorry secondary play.

BigBen'sSwagger
01-06-2010, 10:29 PM
It was a 3 back rotation Parker got the next series and Moore after that. Again if Mendy just ripped off a huge run get him back in there after a brief rest.

Brain fart or politics or whatever else you want to call it it was stupid and to repeat it was even more patheticRun the ball or at least let them think you will run!!!

He's also the guy who coached us in our losses to the chefs, raiders and cleave browns.

Hey with that logic we also won a Superbowl with Burger as our punter so I guess our downfall is that we let him go??? Sometimes you overcome your weaknesses and sometimes they catch up with you.

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 10:32 PM
None of those were pick 6's, one of them almost was in the chiefs game but D held at the 8, thanks to woodley sack,and they settled for 3 making it 17-17. We scored another 10 & still lost.

Take away their kick-off return for TD - special teams gaff or swiss cheese secondary in 4th qtr we win that.

Raiders game was nothing but sorry secondary play.

Sorry... I know he had a couple pick 6's this year, I just assumed they were during those games. But the steelers offense gives up in the 2nd half, so does the defense. If the offense didn't give up, maybe it would give the defense a chance.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 10:35 PM
Agreed



Valid point, and that part of the criticism I can get with. If Arians had a better run blocking O-line, he may have gone a little more ball control. It sounds like the goal is 50/50 balance when you listen to Tomlin. The inability to run consistently, I think, inhibited the ability to excercise more ball control. I think Arians did an admirable job when you consider what he had to work with. It's the fire Arians sentiment I'm having a hard time with because overall the O was productive.

First off, not using a fullback probably doesn't help much there. Running singleback majority of time without a dominant o-line is not exactly the best idea. Second, Rashard averaged damn near 5 yds per carry, and at one point in the season was actually over 5 yds. So, that' really a copout. Arians has stripped the physicality from this offense and that doesn't really lend to a consistent running game. And then there's that pesky, 60/40 pass/run ratio thingy.


I know it's everybody's favorite game to cite for example, but it really is too simple, because it basically sums BA up in a nutshell. 15 degrees, 40 MPH winds, the Cleveland Browns defense. These were the elements the Steelers faced in the second Browns game. So Bruce decides to throw it 40 times to 20 runs? And, more specifically, the first two plays of the game where RM rips off 9 yds, and BA goes shotgun 5 wide? Like I said, that game sums up BA's career in a nutshell. I have no idea why anybody thinks that will change.


Rockon

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 10:37 PM
It was a 3 back rotation Parker got the next series and Moore after that. Again if Mendy just ripped off a huge run get him back in there after a brief rest.

Brain fart or politics or whatever else you want to call it it was stupid and to repeat it was even more patheticRun the ball or at least let them think you will run!!!

He's also the guy who coached us in our losses to the chefs, raiders and cleave browns.

Hey with that logic we also won a Superbowl with Burger as our punter so I guess our downfall is that we let him go??? Sometimes you overcome your weaknesses and sometimes they catch up with you.

ok, our secondary & special teams were stellar all year:blah::huh::frustrate:bash::headshake:

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 10:41 PM
First off, not using a fullback probably doesn't help much there. Running singleback majority of time without a dominant o-line is not exactly the best idea. Second, Rashard averaged damn near 5 yds per carry, and at one point in the season was actually over 5 yds. So, that' really a copout. Arians has stripped the physicality from this offense and that doesn't really lend to a consistent running game. And then there's that pesky, 60/40 pass/run ratio thingy.


I know it's everybody's favorite game to cite for example, but it really is too simple, because it basically sums BA up in a nutshell. 15 degrees, 40 MPH winds, the Cleveland Browns defense. These were the elements the Steelers faced in the second Browns game. So Bruce decides to throw it 40 times to 20 runs? And, more specifically, the first two plays of the game where RM rips off 9 yds, and BA goes shotgun 5 wide? Like I said, that game sums up BA's career in a nutshell. I have no idea why anybody thinks that will change.


Rockon

It was Arians idea to let our blocking full back Dan Kreider go because he wasn't much of a pass catcher :noidea:
And they have refused to add a blocking full back to the roster, even though we had one during the preseason and he was great but we cut him and kept Davis who is only good on special teams and can't block for crap.
Sometimes we put Miller or Spaeth in the back field as a full back, but they are too tall to get under defensive tackles and linebackers to do any damage.

lionslicer
01-06-2010, 10:45 PM
ok, our secondary & special teams were stellar all year:blah::huh::frustrate:bash::headshake:

Secondary was medicore, Lebeau telling them to play soft conservative coverage in the 2nd half of games when we had the lead was stupid and their play worse and put them out of position. Then the offense couldn't hold the ball more than 10 minutes in the 2nd half of most games cause the ball to go back to the defense who is still playing soft out of position coverage. Arians isn't to blame for the defenses terrible play, he's to blame for not running the ball with the lead, or atleast using a short passing game to keep the defense off the field. He plays madden too much and thinks you can run up the score with passing, but doesn't relize in real life, the other teams Defense is expecting the pass and defends it.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 10:48 PM
It was Arians idea to let our blocking full back Dan Kreider go because he wasn't much of a pass catcher :noidea:
And they have refused to add a blocking full back to the roster, even though we had one during the preseason and he was great but we cut him and kept Davis who is only good on special teams and can't block for crap.
Sometimes we put Miller or Spaeth in the back field as a full back, but they are too tall to get under defensive tackles and linebackers to do any damage.

I don't know about you, but sounds bloody brilliant to me! Yeah, bring that guy back next year!


:doh: :banging:



Rockon

Shea
01-06-2010, 10:58 PM
How banged up was the offense? Was it missing two of it's premeire stars. We missed Ben for one game and lost. Just sayin'

Yep.

And just imagine losing not only Ben, but Hines, and either Tone or Heath for an extended period of time. What would our offense have been like in that scenario? They didn't always perform up to snuff with the talent they collectively have, yet all were healthy for the most part. That falls into someone elses lap.

I know this example pits three offensive players up against the devastation of losing just Troy and Aaron. But I personally believe that Troy and Aaron are not only good, but are the two best players in the league in their respective positions. The havoc that created for our D equals losing a handful of our offensive stars. They matter that much.

There seems to be a schism within this board and its posters. A constant argument going on about whether it was our O that let us down or if the blame should be put on the D.

Take what happened after we lost Polamalu and Smith and compare that to the above theory of losing the offensive players I've noted, and that should put into perspective how important these two our to our success on defense. And to me, that explains the defensive struggles we faced this year.

They're the heartbeat of our defense. God willing, I'm praying for a healthy season next year with these two. If not then we are faced with another year of defensive struggles.


ok, our secondary & special teams were stellar all year:blah::huh::frustrate:bash::headshake:

Special teams sucked. Our secondary loss it's heartbeat. Polamalu is our secondary.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:02 PM
How banged up was the offense? Was it missing two of it's premeire stars. We missed Ben for one game and lost. Just sayin'

Yeah, I remember that - we forged a 17-14 lead late in the 4th quarter with our 3rd string QB, had the Ravens backed up in a 3rd-and-22 on their own 29-yard line and not only allowed them to convert, but allowed them to tie up the game on the same possession. Just sayin'.

Fifty8
01-06-2010, 11:13 PM
I know this example pits three offensive players up against the devastation of losing just Troy and Aaron. But I personally believe that Troy and Aaron are not only good, but are the two best players in the league in their respective positions. The havoc that created for our D equals losing a handful of our offensive stars. They matter that much. . . And to me, that explains the defensive struggles we faced this year.



Another key factor in the demise of the D is the fact that we lost B. McFadden to free agency without an adequate replacement. The Gay/Deshea way is the weakest link and the spot that got the most exposed and in my opinion the spot that has to be corrected.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:15 PM
Another key factor in the demise of the D is the fact that we lost B. McFadden to free agency without an adequate replacement. The Gay/Deshea way is the weakest link and the spot that got the most exposed and in my opinion the spot that has to be corrected.

Right. Ask any Cards fan how well BMac worked out for them this year and they'd say roughly the same thing - he's the weakest link in their secondary. And he's a hell of a lot more expensive than Gay is.

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 11:23 PM
Yeah, I remember that - we forged a 17-14 lead late in the 4th quarter with our 3rd string QB, had the Ravens backed up in a 3rd-and-22 on their own 29-yard line and not only allowed them to convert, but allowed them to tie up the game on the same possession. Just sayin'.revisionist history.

our defense did its job and gave the offense back the ball in OT at which point we threw an int. to set up the ravens for an easy FG.

maybe we should just blame the special teams for not blocking the kick.

then again, i guess we wouldnt be in that predicament with a 3rd string qb if our qb didnt get a cuncussion on yet another play where he had to scramble out of a sack, or where his back up didnt break his hand on a limp wristed pass to the sideline that fell short, just 3 plays later.

RUN THE BALL DAMMIT! :noidea:

(the great thing is we passed our way to more losses in the next 2 consecutive weeks)

teh climax was 42pass/18 rush vs the browns in frigid temp with 30-35 mph winds. :applaudit:

BRILLIANT!

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 11:26 PM
Right. Ask any Cards fan how well BMac worked out for them this year and they'd say roughly the same thing - he's the weakest link in their secondary. And he's a hell of a lot more expensive than Gay is. yeah, but thats kinda like asking a 5 year old how their boogers taste. they are either gonna say "bad" and still eat them, or simply say they taste good.

i dont think we should let card fans set the standard whether we really miss b-mac or not. :noidea:

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:28 PM
revisionist history.

our defense did its job and gave the offense back the ball in OT at which point we threw an int. to set up the ravens for an easy FG.

maybe we should just blame the special teams for not blocking the kick.

Nothing revisionist about it. We had the Ravens down 17-14 late in the 4th, we had them backed up in a 3rd-and-22 on their own 29 and not only couldn't we get a stop, we couldn't prevent them from tying the game up and sending it into OT. But keep blaming Arians' play calling for it. If the defense would have done it's damn job and got the stop when we had them inside their own 30 with about 3rd and a mile to go, OT wouldn't have been necessary, no?

Shea
01-06-2010, 11:30 PM
Another key factor in the demise of the D is the fact that we lost B. McFadden to free agency without an adequate replacement. The Gay/Deshea way is the weakest link and the spot that got the most exposed and in my opinion the spot that has to be corrected.

Compared to previous years, I didn't get to watch to many Steelers games this year. But from what I did see, Gay really was the liability.

As for DeShea, I'm not so sure. Without having viewed all the games, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt from the past of being able to watch him and others weekly. Might not be the most talented player on D, but he seems to make up for it with what goes on between his ears. He's smart, with a good football intelligence.

Could be wrong, but I'm not sure I can lay much blame DeShea's way.

Rockonsteel
01-06-2010, 11:33 PM
Right. Ask any Cards fan how well BMac worked out for them this year and they'd say roughly the same thing - he's the weakest link in their secondary. And he's a hell of a lot more expensive than Gay is.


And BMac is still ten times better than Will Gay. BMac is the "weak link" in a secondary that has Adrian Wilson, Antrell Rolle and Dominique Rogers-Cromartie. Will Gay is the weak link in a secondary that consists of Tyrone Carter, Ryan Clark and Ike Taylor. Now don't get me wrong, I like Ryan Clark, that's my dude. He's not as good as either of their safeties. And DRC, is every bit the equal of Ike as a cover corner. That leaves BMac vs. Gay. Give me BMac all day, twice on Sundays. Where BMac was the perfect compliment to Ike, Gay is a liability who gets exposed in big way, and in turn, puts the rest of secondary in a position where they too get exposed. The Steelers definitely dropped the ball on that one (insert Ike/secondary joke here).




Rockon

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:37 PM
i dont think we should let card fans set the standard whether we really miss b-mac or not. :noidea:

Oh, believe me, I'm not.

Scout.com's Ed Thompson takes a look at the three cornerbacks, safeties and linebackers that NFL quarterbacks have gone after with no mercy this season. And he points out which players at each position are struggling the most when called upon to defend the pass.


Cornerbacks

Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers: Quarterbacks have gone after the seventh-year corner a 90 times this season, more than any other defender in the NFL. Taylor has allowed a league-high 54 catches (60 percent) for 679 yards and two touchdowns. He's broken-up 11 attempts.

Bryant McFadden, Arizona Cardinals: 87 passes have been thrown McFadden's way, and he's allowed 45 completions (51.7 percent) for 648 yards and a score. He's knocked away 13 throws

http://pit.scout.com/2/926374.html

tony hipchest
01-06-2010, 11:38 PM
But keep blaming Arians' play calling for it. If the defense would have done it's damn job and got the stop when we had them inside their own 30 with about 3rd and a mile to go, OT wouldn't have been necessary, no?

if the offense could do its damn job and not throw an interception, it is a moot point, no?

shouldnt dixon be held to the same standards carter and kirchke are held to? all they gotta do is execute. no excuses right?

if the defense supposedly blew 5 games, we can just cut it down to 4 and blame the offense for that one.

lets be real about it.

the defense DIDNT lose that game. they simply allowed it to become tied. then the defense did their job and held serve in OT. it was up to the offense to execute for a win. :noidea:

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:40 PM
:thumbsup:

i don't get how someone can say the offense wasn't a problem :rofl:

heres to another of year with tons of yards and a 9-7 record :drink:

And I don't see how people can ignore the subpar year on the part of the D and blame it ALL on the offense.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:42 PM
if the offense could do its damn job and not throw an interception, it is a moot point, no?

But, Ben was out. You're willing to give the D a pass for Troy being out, so why doesn't the offense get the same benefit? Ben matters.

fansince'76
01-06-2010, 11:57 PM
And BMac is still ten times better than Will Gay. BMac is the "weak link" in a secondary that has Adrian Wilson, Antrell Rolle and Dominique Rogers-Cromartie. Will Gay is the weak link in a secondary that consists of Tyrone Carter, Ryan Clark and Ike Taylor. Now don't get me wrong, I like Ryan Clark, that's my dude. He's not as good as either of their safeties. And DRC, is every bit the equal of Ike as a cover corner. That leaves BMac vs. Gay. Give me BMac all day, twice on Sundays. Where BMac was the perfect compliment to Ike, Gay is a liability who gets exposed in big way, and in turn, puts the rest of secondary in a position where they too get exposed. The Steelers definitely dropped the ball on that one (insert Ike/secondary joke here).




Rockon

Why'd Gay and BMac split playing time last year, then, if BMac was and is so far and away superior in every way? I'm not saying Gay is any great shakes, but please stop making BMac's departure sound like we let Rod Woodson get away again. And for having so many "studs" in their secondary, the Cards only ranked 23rd against the pass (mind you, a LOT of people want to shitcan our entire secondary outside of Troy for ranking 16th against the pass).

BigBen'sSwagger
01-07-2010, 06:15 AM
ok, our secondary & special teams were stellar all year:blah::huh::frustrate:bash::headshake:

No they just weren't aware that is was crucial to cover the receivers until the last game when they got all those interceptions. :drink:

steelcity1974
01-07-2010, 07:19 AM
Steelers scored 27 pts in those games - that is supposed to be winning football in Pittsburgh - I have to put all the blame on lack of D and poor special teams in those games! I don't care if Ben threw 5 picks. We had 27 on the scoreboard and lost!
:banging:

Good lord! Bang your head on the wall all you want. First we lost both games 27-24...we did not score 27. And if you're proud of 24 points v those teams, well then this was the offense for you! Hell, the Browns put up 41 on the Chiefs. And that Denver team we held to 10 put up 44 on the Chiefs. Oh, and that high powered offense in NY led by a rookie put up 38 on the Raiders. AGAIN, footall is not just about 1 part of the team. Offense was one of many problems. To say it wasn't is just ignorance.

atlsteelers
01-07-2010, 08:53 AM
the special teams can not cover a kick or punt worth a damn, the defense stunk in the 4th quarter, and the offense stunk in the redzone. its that simple

Rockonsteel
01-07-2010, 09:21 AM
Why'd Gay and BMac split playing time last year, then, if BMac was and is so far and away superior in every way? I'm not saying Gay is any great shakes, but please stop making BMac's departure sound like we let Rod Woodson get away again. And for having so many "studs" in their secondary, the Cards only ranked 23rd against the pass (mind you, a LOT of people want to shitcan our entire secondary outside of Troy for ranking 16th against the pass).


Because the Steelers didn't want to pay BMac and thought they had a cheaper alternative in Gay. Well he turned out to be a much worse player too. They missed the boat on that one. And I would trade anyone in our secondary straight up for any of their guys(BMac notwithstanding) right now.



Rockon

stillers4me
01-07-2010, 09:24 AM
the special teams can not cover a kick or punt worth a damn, the defense stunk in the 4th quarter, and the offense stunk in the redzone. its that simple

That about sums it up. Oh, and don't forget the third down problems on both the offense and the defense.

madtowndrunkard
01-07-2010, 09:29 AM
I find it really funny that our defense is expected to be ranked in the top 3 every year. When we are not the most dominant defense in the league....it's all the defenses fault. Case in point.....last season our offense ranked 21st in scoring. Our defense was ranked #1. Anyone disagree that our defense was why we were in the SB last season?

This year the defense has slipped after injuries to Troy and Smith. Those injuries exposed our corners and lack of depth on defense. The offense did manage to rack up some yards this year.....though they still only ranked near the middle in scoring. Wouldn't you expect the offense to pick up the scoring when your defense is banged up? Especially considering we got to play the 3 worst defenses in the league 4 X this year?

At what point can you ask the offense to pick up some slack when the defense is down? Has anyone lost faith in DL and his staff? Absolutely not. Anyone doubt the talent on our offense? NOPE. Yet the offense is allowed to under achieve year after year. Doesn't make sense. Especially considering the success the Steelers have had using the recipe of stout defense and pounding the ball down the opponents throat. We never used to give up leads and come the 2nd half when we were up....we ran the ball and kept the defense off the field. I'd love to see our TOP in during the 3rd and 4th quarters this season. Red Zone offense never used to be a problem either....when we got in the redzone we were balanced....now we run the shot gun every play.

We won the SB last year and we completely abandoned our style of play. It makes no sense.

X-Terminator
01-07-2010, 10:31 AM
the special teams can not cover a kick or punt worth a damn, the defense stunk in the 4th quarter, and the offense stunk in the redzone. its that simple

That about covers it.

Oh, and don't forget the third down problems on both the offense and the defense.

This too.

fansince'76
01-07-2010, 12:09 PM
Because the Steelers didn't want to pay BMac and thought they had a cheaper alternative in Gay. Well he turned out to be a much worse player too. They missed the boat on that one. And I would trade anyone in our secondary straight up for any of their guys(BMac notwithstanding) right now.



Rockon

So, you would trade anyone from a secondary that ranked 16th against the pass for anyone from a secondary that ranked 23rd against the pass straight up? Sounds about right and it's about what I've become used to around here.

GoSlash27
01-08-2010, 07:16 AM
This might sound kooky, but I see the offense as a contributing factor to the defensive problems.
You go to a more balanced offense, and you don't put up as many yards as rapidly, but you also boost your 3rd down conversions and your red zone efficiency, so your points don't fall off as rapidly as your yardage. They might even go up if you can strike a good balance.
More importantly, it boosts your time of possession. The longer you keep your offense on the field, the less time your defense will be out there, running out of gas just in time for the 4th quarter.

markymarc
01-08-2010, 04:05 PM
All 3 phases of the Steelers had its flaws in 2009. The defense, special teams and offense contributed to our 9-7 record. I find it humorous for fans that try to just pin it on the defense and special teams.

steeldawg
01-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Well we had 2 1000+ yd receivers not rushers. Our offense was a problem, it does no good to put up all those yards if you are constantly ending drives with field goals.



A lot of folks were very excited about the prospect that Arian's was going to be fired and it leaves me scratching my head. I know this post is going to catch a lot of flack, but regardless: Our offense, in my opinion was more dynamic this year than in any year since Wiz and Randle El trick packages. Ben put up 4000+ yds and we had 2 1000 yd rushers. During most of the Cowher era we ran on 1st & 2nd and ran a draw on 3rd or threw on third. Admittedly, a few times Arians completely abandoned the run, and yes that was frustrating, and I would like to see more screens (like the Dolphins game) but overall the offense was reasonably productive and pretty dynamic.

Special Teams and poor secondary play buried us this year.

Bears game (If Reed makes 2 field goals - we win, makes one we at least go to overtime.)

1st Bengals game: D can't hold a lead and goes into prevent mode rather than blitz Palmer. For those who have forgotten, the only thing the Prevent, prevents is winning.

Chiefs game: Special teams allows return for TD

Raiders game: Worst coverage I have ever witnessed by Steeler secondary, EVER
Steeler D shredded by Gradkowski? Give me a break

2nd Bengals game: Steeler O musters 12 pts (Arians to blame here)

2nd Browns game: Most unmotivated flat offense of the year (Arians can get some blame here) but special teams allowed return for TD

So I ask you how many losses do you pin on Arians? I say one maybe 1 1/2

I blame 4 1/2 losses on secondary and special teams.

steelreserve
01-08-2010, 05:57 PM
The offense was a problem because it would march right down the field and then somehow find a way to come away with NO points, or at best a field goal.

The defense was a problem because it would play great for 80 percent of the game and then have a similar meltdown.

Basically the entire team would play a good game and then suddenly let it all unravel by standing around with their dicks in their hands on a few critical plays. Except for the special teams, they sucked the whole time. But every special teams play is a potentially big play. So I guess the problem is that whenever it came down to a key play, we were sitting around jerking off.

T.Richardson
01-08-2010, 06:02 PM
I find it really funny that our defense is expected to be ranked in the top 3 every year. When we are not the most dominant defense in the league....it's all the defenses fault. Case in point.....last season our offense ranked 21st in scoring. Our defense was ranked #1. Anyone disagree that our defense was why we were in the SB last season?

This year the defense has slipped after injuries to Troy and Smith. Those injuries exposed our corners and lack of depth on defense. The offense did manage to rack up some yards this year.....though they still only ranked near the middle in scoring. Wouldn't you expect the offense to pick up the scoring when your defense is banged up? Especially considering we got to play the 3 worst defenses in the league 4 X this year?

At what point can you ask the offense to pick up some slack when the defense is down? Has anyone lost faith in DL and his staff? Absolutely not. Anyone doubt the talent on our offense? NOPE. Yet the offense is allowed to under achieve year after year. Doesn't make sense. Especially considering the success the Steelers have had using the recipe of stout defense and pounding the ball down the opponents throat. We never used to give up leads and come the 2nd half when we were up....we ran the ball and kept the defense off the field. I'd love to see our TOP in during the 3rd and 4th quarters this season. Red Zone offense never used to be a problem either....when we got in the redzone we were balanced....now we run the shot gun every play.

We won the SB last year and we completely abandoned our style of play. It makes no sense.

How well did that work? 25 years without a Lombardi trophy..

T.Richardson
01-08-2010, 06:03 PM
All 3 phases of the Steelers had its flaws in 2009. The defense, special teams and offense contributed to our 9-7 record. I find it humorous for fans that try to just pin it on the defense and special teams.

I find it humorous for fans to pin it on Arians, and give Lebeau pity..

zulater
01-08-2010, 06:55 PM
I find it humorous for fans to pin it on Arians, and give Lebeau pity..

Maybe it's because LeBeau was missing Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith for a majority of the season? What do you think the offensive equivlent of those two players would be? Ben and Heath maybe? So you tell me how good do you think the Arains offense is going to be if you lose Ben for all but 4 games, and Heath for the final 7?

Throw in LeBeau losing two other starters from the previous season ( McFadden, and Foote) and maybe we can see why his unit had it's shortcomings. :popcorn:

Here's another for you just in case that didn't resonate. In the past half dozen drafts (04-09) the Steelers have added more impact players on the offensive side of the of the ball than on the defensive side. Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, Rashard Mendenhall, and Mike Wallace. That's 5 high quality impact players at or near their prime that Arians had at his disposal for this season that were added in those aforementioned drafts.

What has LeBeau been given from those same drafts that he could call on this season? Woodley, Timmons ( marginal player at best right now) and who else? Ziggy, yeah I like him, he's going to be a good player, came on nicely at the end, but for the season he wasn't much.

So can you see the difference yet? See who had the most toys in the toy chest to play with?

Just go through the roster, it should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of objectivity that the offense had a lot more talented players than the defense did this season. Therefore it was only logical to expect them to carry a larger share of the load. :coffee:

Prok
01-08-2010, 07:12 PM
I find it humorous for fans to pin it on Arians, and give Lebeau pity..


They've got the injury excuse this year. Like some folks will say who cares how great the O's stats are they still struggle getting points, etc.. So I say who cares how highly the D ranks, they have been good at letting us down late in games forever. Damn near cost us the last SB too.

zulater
01-08-2010, 07:16 PM
They've got the injury excuse this year. Like some folks will say who cares how great the O's stats are they still struggle getting points, etc.. So I say who cares how highly the D ranks, they have been good at letting us down late in games forever. Damn near cost us the last SB too.

Not just the "injury excuse", they got the talent excuse too. There's just more high end in their prime talent on the offensive side of the ball than there is currently on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not saying it's a permanant state, but the talent pendulum was way in favor of the offense this year, so why shouldn't more have been expected from them?

steelreserve
01-08-2010, 07:20 PM
So, you would trade anyone from a secondary that ranked 16th against the pass for anyone from a secondary that ranked 23rd against the pass straight up? Sounds about right and it's about what I've become used to around here.

I'd trade Gay for McFadden, anyway. I don't know whether it was that BMac and Ike had better chemistry, or Gay just wasn't ready yet, or what, but that seemed to work a lot better. Too bad about the $$$.

Although as far as I know, we finished the season with about $4-$5 million in free cap space THAT WE NEVER USED.

Prok
01-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Not just the "injury excuse", they got the talent excuse too. There's just more high end in their prime talent on the offensive side of the ball than there is currently on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not saying it's a permanant state, but the talent pendulum was way in favor of the offense this year, so why shouldn't more have been expected from them?


I agree but ya gotta admit the offense handed the D plenty of leads late in games. in fact, I can't stand Arians but that offense won the last 3 games for us in spite of a D that did everything in it's power to lose. Just a damn shame that O couldn't get bigger leads during that ugly losing skid.

zulater
01-08-2010, 08:03 PM
I agree but ya gotta admit the offense handed the D plenty of leads late in games. in fact, I can't stand Arians but that offense won the last 3 games for us in spite of a D that did everything in it's power to lose. Just a damn shame that O couldn't get bigger leads during that ugly losing skid.

Can't disagree with anything you say.:hatsoff:

9-7 was deserved and a total team effort, or lack thereof. :drink:

Prok
01-08-2010, 08:05 PM
another interesting take on it....

http://www.fanfeedr.com/nfl/2010/01/09/mike-tomlin-has-intertwined-his-own-fate-with-that-of-bruce-aria

Dude basically points out alot of our frustrations.

I believe for anyone to understand the mentality of the people wanting Arians removed, one would have had to watch the Steelers games throughout the season. Because the answer obviously does not lie in the statistics; rather, the answer lies in what happened on the field...week in and week out.

Watching the football games it was clear that Arians does not have the capacity to call the right play at the right time, which is of utmost importance for an offensive coordinator to be capable of.

plenewken
01-09-2010, 09:36 AM
I have a different notion of blown lead than you and many others here. When we score first and the opponent ties (or scores more pts) that's not a blown lead. There are no blown leads in tennis either when each player wins a game when they serve.
To me, a lead in football is like a break in tennis, it's 2 scores minimum.
Count how many times the Steeles led by more than 7pts and lost the game this year and you will see that there hasn't been as many "blown leads" by the defense as you think.

markymarc
01-09-2010, 11:38 AM
I find it humorous for fans to pin it on Arians, and give Lebeau pity..

LeBeau deserves heat too, but to me he is allowed to have a down year considering his greatness over time.

supa_fly_steeler
01-09-2010, 11:39 AM
LeBeau deserves heat too, but to me he is allowed to have a down year considering his greatness over time.

damn right. Lebeau is the greatest Co-Ordinator the world will ever see. Arians has been inconsistent for 3 years now.

markymarc
01-09-2010, 11:39 AM
but the talent pendulum was way in favor of the offense this year, so why shouldn't more have been expected from them?

Seems like a simple request for me.

stillers4me
01-09-2010, 11:40 AM
LeBeau deserves heat too, but to me he is allowed to have a down year considering his greatness over time.

I don't see Arians getting any nominations to the HOF.

markymarc
01-09-2010, 11:42 AM
I can't stand Arians but that offense won the last 3 games for us in spite of a D that did everything in it's power to lose. Just a damn shame that O couldn't get bigger leads during that ugly losing skid.

My biggest problem is we should have been playing like the last 3 games all season long. With the talent and coaching considering this was Bruce Arians 3rd season should have lit up the scoreboard every single weak especially against the weaker opponents.

Prok
01-09-2010, 01:08 PM
My biggest problem is we should have been playing like the last 3 games all season long. With the talent and coaching considering this was Bruce Arians 3rd season should have lit up the scoreboard every single weak especially against the weaker opponents.

I think the most of us can agree, that for whatever reasons, our offense disappeared for long stretches this season. And there were quite a few head scratching calls mixed in there as well. I bet a couple years down the road the whole story surfaces as to why we kept Arians on.

HometownGal
01-10-2010, 07:33 AM
I think the most of us can agree, that for whatever reasons, our offense disappeared for long stretches this season. And there were quite a few head scratching calls mixed in there as well. I bet a couple years down the road the whole story surfaces as to why we kept Arians on.

I can recall only 2 games this season where our offense "disappeared". I think our D disappeared quite a few more times than did our O, especially in the 4Q's. :banging:

We kept Arians on because there was no legitimate reason to fire him. Period.

I don't see Arians getting any nominations to the HOF.

I believe Papa Lebeau will be a lock for the HOF, as he should be, for his tremendous playing career, not so much for his DC role. I think a lot of you forget that until he came back to the Steelers, he had a bit of a bumpy road and was fired as the HC in Bungleland, where - as hard as it will be for some of the younger set around here to believe - he actually had a half decent team, particularly on D.