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View Full Version : Nice article by Lance Zierlein, Larry's son


vrabinec
01-07-2010, 11:11 AM
Spot on in most of what he says...

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010/01/even_though_you_had_to_fire_my_1.html

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 11:27 AM
Agree with some of what he has to say, but disagree that the OL wasn't at fault this year. They were confused and a mess in the browns game, and there is NO excuse for that, nor can that be blamed on any other coach than Zierlein...

vrabinec
01-07-2010, 11:33 AM
Agree with some of what he has to say, but disagree that the OL wasn't at fault this year. They were confused and a mess in the browns game, and there is NO excuse for that, nor can that be blamed on any other coach than Zierlein...

Yeah, 50 sacks is a hell of a lot, even if your QB holds the ball too long.

Rockonsteel
01-07-2010, 11:40 AM
Agree with some of what he has to say, but disagree that the OL wasn't at fault this year. They were confused and a mess in the browns game, and there is NO excuse for that, nor can that be blamed on any other coach than Zierlein...

The first two sacks of that game, were in 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2 scenarios. Ben had no business in 5 wide shotgun, especially considering the weather conditions that night. The Browns just sent more than the Steelers could block. And knowing Ben's penchant for holding onto the ball, they jammed the receivers all night to make him do just that. It worked like a charm all night. BA never adjusted. He kept dropping back in empty backfield sets. The Browns kept blitzing. Ben kept getting sacked. The Steelers scored 6 pts. as a result of this. Against the Browns. The Steelers lost the game. The Steelers are home watching the playoffs, in large part because of this.


Rockon

casteeler
01-07-2010, 11:42 AM
I really think the front office( especially the coaching staff) need to read this article and then read it again.Protecting ben is like gaurding a bank vault every time he is hit really hard is like getting robbed for a little of that 100 million.One more serious concussion could very well be the end of the road . So a better preforming off line and ben getting the ball out of his hand before the big hits are pertinant to the longevity of the steelers MVP.We also have a more than capable backup in Dennis Dixon who needs to be utilized instead of wasting away on the bench, the man preformed exeptionally against Balt in his very first NFL start.

StainlessStill
01-07-2010, 11:47 AM
Agree with some of what he has to say, but disagree that the OL wasn't at fault this year. They were confused and a mess in the browns game, and there is NO excuse for that, nor can that be blamed on any other coach than Zierlein...


I disagree. That Browns game was pathetic as it is. Why do you think they were confused? Because of the lack of preperation and the lack of failing to adjust. That lays SORELY on the offensive coordinator.

There is only SO MUCH a lineman can communicate, and once the communication is done that doesn't change the fact that we were out schemed that night in every phase to where we had no idea how to block an extra attacker in the box. Say what you want, but the O-LINE had a HELLUVA year this season and I agree mostly what Larry's son said in the whole argument.

Great read.

Gnutella
01-07-2010, 11:50 AM
Sometimes I wonder if Roethlisberger should be benched the next time he takes an unnecessary sack.

StainlessStill
01-07-2010, 12:02 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Roethlisberger should be benched the next time he takes an unnecessary sack.

There's so much more than to what meets the eye when talking about the 50 sacks. Ben needs to be Ben, and that means let Ben be Ben. PERIOD. Yes, the O-line had something to do with sacks. Point taken. Yes, Ben has something to do with them. Point taken. But the receiving core ALSO has something to do with them, and MOST of the sacks were coverage sacks, which comes right back to packages and schemes. We had virtually NO underneath routes and relied FAR TOO OFTEN ON THE INTERMEDIATE routes, esp when we kept Heath in to pass protect. I don't mean to pick on Arians, but this falls on his game plan.

Multiple times, we've had an extra defender in the box on a blitz, someone whom we couldn't of picked up because we were out numbered, but yet, our receivers are running 15 yards down field, which means Ben needs time, which means the O-line needs to block. Well, the O-line can't block a guy coming free when being out numbered an extra man. This calls for a hot route, or simply a pass protection option we clearly never had an answer for.

Arians's offense did indeed put up great numbers, but sometimes his schemes, play calling and lack thereof in the redzone costed us this season offensively. There were many drives where we would eat about 6 minutes off the clock, only to settle for 3. Hopefully, we can fix that REAL QUICK or else it'll be more of the same next season. Bunch of stats, but no touchdowns.

vrabinec
01-07-2010, 12:08 PM
There's so much more than to what meets the eye when talking about the 50 sacks. Ben needs to be Ben, and that means let Ben be Ben. PERIOD. Yes, the O-line had something to do with sacks. Point taken. Yes, Ben has something to do with them. Point taken. But the receiving core ALSO has something to do with them, and MOST of the sacks were coverage sacks, which comes right back to packages and schemes. We had virtually NO underneath routes and relied FAR TOO OFTEN ON THE INTERMEDIATE routes, esp when we kept Heath in to pass protect. I don't mean to pick on Arians, but this falls on his game plan..

I'll agree that we had no underneath routes. IMO, since we have Ben, and he's prone to holding on to the ball until SOMEONE gets open, we need a Welker type to be his outlet. Someone who gets open QUICKLY. Wallace, Holmes and Heath are threats on longer routes, but none of them gets separation quickly. Ward used to, but not so much anymore. Mendenhall is still unteady in the passing game (that may get better next year if he works hard at it) So Ben needs someone who is really quick and shifty, sure handed, and gets off his man in a hurry.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
01-07-2010, 12:11 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Roethlisberger should be benched the next time he takes an unnecessary sack.

:hunch:
What about when he avoids a sac. holds onto the ball and creates a great play for a first down or TD....... Like ben said... sacs are part of the game... and hes gonna do everything he can to win.... I think the good out weighs the bad when it comes to ben holding onto the ball.

Gnutella
01-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Well even if the personnel screams "PASS!" to the defense, couldn't Roethlisberger audible out of a certain play and have a receiver run a short route underneath? I thought that was the whole point of doing audibles in the first place -- to change things at the last second before the ball was snapped. Or am I missing something?

StainlessStill
01-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Well even if the personnel screams "PASS!" to the defense, couldn't Roethlisberger audible out of a certain play and have a receiver run a short route underneath? I thought that was the whole point of doing audibles in the first place -- to change things at the last second before the ball was snapped. Or am I missing something?

Yeah, but there is only so many audibles available givin what personal is on the field. You can't run a play intended for a guy like Mendenhall when he isn't even on the field. I bet they give Ben so many options for an audible and so many plays at the line of scrimmage.

They need to hand the keys to Ben more often because obviously the no-huddle is Ben calling his own plays, putting people where he wants to put them and delivering. The results speak for itself when Ben handles the offense as a whole.

SteelC7
01-07-2010, 01:01 PM
he was just protecting daddy. the o line was better than last year but still average at best, ben got sacked almost every single game as usual,. this guy is pickin ben apart wen hes one of the best in the league, and hes sayin his dad did a good job, which he didnt, why do u think we walked into the SB with the worst offensive line that had ever been seen on that stage? he was rite about the secondary, but so was my 1 year old godson, it doesnt take a genious to see our secondary sucks, it just takes someone with 20/50 vision

Steelers>NFL
01-07-2010, 01:40 PM
There's so much more than to what meets the eye when talking about the 50 sacks. Ben needs to be Ben, and that means let Ben be Ben. PERIOD. Yes, the O-line had something to do with sacks. Point taken. Yes, Ben has something to do with them. Point taken. But the receiving core ALSO has something to do with them, and MOST of the sacks were coverage sacks, which comes right back to packages and schemes. We had virtually NO underneath routes and relied FAR TOO OFTEN ON THE INTERMEDIATE routes, esp when we kept Heath in to pass protect. I don't mean to pick on Arians, but this falls on his game plan.

Multiple times, we've had an extra defender in the box on a blitz, someone whom we couldn't of picked up because we were out numbered, but yet, our receivers are running 15 yards down field, which means Ben needs time, which means the O-line needs to block. Well, the O-line can't block a guy coming free when being out numbered an extra man. This calls for a hot route, or simply a pass protection option we clearly never had an answer for.

Arians's offense did indeed put up great numbers, but sometimes his schemes, play calling and lack thereof in the redzone costed us this season offensively. There were many drives where we would eat about 6 minutes off the clock, only to settle for 3. Hopefully, we can fix that REAL QUICK or else it'll be more of the same next season. Bunch of stats, but no touchdowns.
I question Ben's abilty to read defense. I tend to believe that he is not very good at reading defense schemes. Almost every single play when he lines up behind the center, whether there are 10 or 18 seconds left, he lets the clock roll down to 1-3 seconds before the ball is snapped. Even is shotgun formation. This is almost every single down. This is a huge advantage to defense because they already know the ball will not be snapped before the 1-3 second mark. Why not mix the snap up? Why no quick snap, etc? This is where the likes of P. Manning, Brady are far better than Ben. They can read defenses. And Ben cannot (so it seems).

StainlessStill
01-07-2010, 02:02 PM
I question Ben's abilty to read defense. I tend to believe that he is not very good at reading defense schemes. Almost every single play when he lines up behind the center, whether there are 10 or 18 seconds left, he lets the clock roll down to 1-3 seconds before the ball is snapped. Even is shotgun formation. This is almost every single down. This is a huge advantage to defense because they already know the ball will not be snapped before the 1-3 second mark. Why not mix the snap up? Why no quick snap, etc? This is where the likes of P. Manning, Brady are far better than Ben. They can read defenses. And Ben cannot (so it seems).

I respectfully, disagree. In fact, in my opinion, I feel Ben is ACTUALLY getting better and better at reading defense's. The way he runs a no-huddle is a clear indicator in that.

The way he runs the no huddle or the 2 minute offense is to read the defense according to plan and put his players in position against that defense. Ben on multiple times took what the defense gives him and tha'ts why Heath Miller had a HUGE year. It's just when there is no hot route, or when the receiver and QB is not on the same page or lack of max protection.. there's little Ben could do when reading a defense, esp when his receivers are 15-20 yards down field not even out of their initial break yet.

SteelGhost
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
I'll agree that we had no underneath routes. IMO, since we have Ben, and he's prone to holding on to the ball until SOMEONE gets open, we need a Welker type to be his outlet. Someone who gets open QUICKLY. Wallace, Holmes and Heath are threats on longer routes, but none of them gets separation quickly. Ward used to, but not so much anymore. Mendenhall is still unteady in the passing game (that may get better next year if he works hard at it) So Ben needs someone who is really quick and shifty, sure handed, and gets off his man in a hurry.

I agree, maybe they can use Logan for this purpose :noidea:

Steelers>NFL
01-07-2010, 02:19 PM
I respectfully, disagree. In fact, in my opinion, I feel Ben is ACTUALLY getting better and better at reading defense's. The way he runs a no-huddle is a clear indicator in that.

The way he runs the no huddle or the 2 minute offense is to read the defense according to plan and put his players in position against that defense. Ben on multiple times took what the defense gives him and tha'ts why Heath Miller had a HUGE year. It's just when there is no hot route, or when the receiver and QB is not on the same page or lack of max protection.. there's little Ben could do when reading a defense, esp when his receivers are 15-20 yards down field not even out of their initial break yet.
Then why the constant of letting the play clock down to 1-3 second, then snap the ball? This plays into the defense favor all the way. Why not mixup the when and how to snap the ball? It is so obvious...

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 02:37 PM
So I learned some things today in this thread.

Ben can't read a defense, and the Offensive Coordinator is in charge of offensive line.

Oh boy....

SteelerEmpire
01-07-2010, 02:44 PM
He was officially let go today.... How this guy milked years of paychecks out of the Steelers company is beyond me. The Steelers have the most forgiving organization in football.... Ben is also overly forgiving for not raising the devil for getting sacked so many times.... year after year....

Steel Glory
01-07-2010, 03:07 PM
I'll agree that we had no underneath routes. IMO, since we have Ben, and he's prone to holding on to the ball until SOMEONE gets open, we need a Welker type to be his outlet. Someone who gets open QUICKLY. Wallace, Holmes and Heath are threats on longer routes, but none of them gets separation quickly. Ward used to, but not so much anymore. Mendenhall is still unteady in the passing game (that may get better next year if he works hard at it) So Ben needs someone who is really quick and shifty, sure handed, and gets off his man in a hurry.

How about William Gay? He gets off his man after about 2 seconds on every play. I'd say thats pretty quick :sofunny:

vrabinec
01-07-2010, 03:25 PM
How about William Gay? He gets off his man after about 2 seconds on every play. I'd say thats pretty quick :sofunny:

lmao! That's just cold, man.

I wonder how much heat Ray Horton is getting in HIS meeting with Tomlin about how well he coached the secondary this year.

Steely McSmash
01-07-2010, 03:32 PM
The Steelers have proven for years that they can find talent all over the draft when it comes to the defensive side of the ball

Definitely not true for DE

I think the OL was about average last year. My guess is that Tomlin and the FO have someone in mind that's an upgrade. I think BA could be ok but he needs a reality check from Tomlin once in a while.

stillers4me
01-07-2010, 03:43 PM
That was a very classy letter. And pretty spot on to what ails our team and needs to be addressed this offseason. Loved the picture of Zeirlein's grandson with the superbowl ring....gad that thing is massive! Good luck, Larry.

Florida_Steelers_Fan
01-07-2010, 05:10 PM
this guy knows football??? what a joke... this line is NOT built to run the football. half the time they could barely get 6 inches on third and 1. don't know what he saw, but he sounds like he's protecting his father who i have always believed did a lousy job.

seemed to be better at forwarding porn than he was at coaching these guys how to run block...

SteelersMongol
01-07-2010, 07:35 PM
Nice article. Thanks 4 sharing.

VTsteel
01-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Roethlisberger should be benched the next time he takes an unnecessary sack.


Are you freaking serious??? Bench the best QB in the entire Universe becasue he takes an "unnecessary" sack? PUH-LEEZE :thmbdown:

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 10:06 PM
I question Ben's abilty to read defense. I tend to believe that he is not very good at reading defense schemes.
...

This is where the likes of P. Manning, Brady are far better than Ben. They can read defenses. And Ben cannot (so it seems).

maybe because you are holding him to a golden (or should i say silver spoon standard).

ben had only 4 years experience playing quarterback when the steelers drafted him. the reason he fell so far in the draft (hindsight obviously says he is worth the #1 pick in any draft) is because he was RAW.

the likes of eli, peyton, brady, favre, rivers, elway, etc. have been reading defenses since they were years old.

any learning curve or lack of experience (especially that he didnt go to a big time college like ol miss, tenn, stanford, michigan, etc.) was simply part of the package, much like his huge frame, and incredible atheletisism.

anyways, great post by larry z's son. how often we forget that these fired coaches/ players have family and friends outside of their jobs.

Bluedust
01-07-2010, 10:09 PM
I disagree. That Browns game was pathetic as it is. Why do you think they were confused? Because of the lack of preperation and the lack of failing to adjust. That lays SORELY on the offensive coordinator.

There is only SO MUCH a lineman can communicate, and once the communication is done that doesn't change the fact that we were out schemed that night in every phase to where we had no idea how to block an extra attacker in the box. Say what you want, but the O-LINE had a HELLUVA year this season and I agree mostly what Larry's son said in the whole argument.

Great read.

You should put a resume into Steelers FO broski, you sound like you know what you're talking about.

markymarc
01-08-2010, 12:44 PM
I thought that was a great read and thanks for sharing it vrabinec. While I do believe LZ was not the best choice for leading the OL, I would not be surprise to see our sack totals still being high in 2010. I wish LZ the best of luck with his future endeavors. At least he was able to pick up a ring!

Raw Steel
01-08-2010, 02:34 PM
The first two sacks of that game, were in 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2 scenarios. Ben had no business in 5 wide shotgun, especially considering the weather conditions that night. The Browns just sent more than the Steelers could block. And knowing Ben's penchant for holding onto the ball, they jammed the receivers all night to make him do just that. It worked like a charm all night. BA never adjusted. He kept dropping back in empty backfield sets. The Browns kept blitzing. Ben kept getting sacked. The Steelers scored 6 pts. as a result of this. Against the Browns. The Steelers lost the game. The Steelers are home watching the playoffs, in large part because of this.


Rockon

+1...

St33lersguy
01-08-2010, 03:15 PM
I agree with him, he looks very smart. Although I will say that they are best using 1 TE and spending a pick on a backup TE would be a big waste of a pick. Although I don't think Zierlein was not very good, the main problem is that fat moronic degeneric posing as a real OC and if they were going to fire Zierlein airhead Arians should have gone with him

markymarc
01-09-2010, 10:50 AM
Wonder who will be the scapegoat next season if our offense struggles again in situational football.

Rick5895
01-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Great article, very classy by Lance. I thought he made some good points. I have been one who thought Colon would be better at guard, but since we lack quality depth at tackle there he stays. Kemo, Foster, Legursky and Urbik will be great inside for years to come, hopefully. Urbik also played tackle at Wisconsin.
I for one don't like the empty sets, in the Cleveland game that hurt us more than the "confusion" the OL appeared to have. I am sure that Ryan told his D to let fly when the saw the empty sets, with DB in press coverage. It worked.
Towards the end of the season I started counting the time Ben held the ball, on probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the sacks he held the ball for 5 or more seconds, in those cases the OL DID THE JOB, the receivers did not or there were not any under neath routes called.
Overall I think the OL did a decent job and hopefully with a new coach will get better, focus on the D side of the ball in this draft and we will be back to winning the Super Bowl.

LVSteelersfan
01-09-2010, 01:43 PM
I agree totally that the routes run on those empty backfield sets suck royally. You would think at least one receiver out of four would run a hot route instead of firing everyone down the field 20 yards. There should be no empty backfield in third and short EVER. It should be a full house backfield with a FB on third and one EVERY TIME. Make them stop it. Then maybe you can at least run an occasional screen pass. What is it with Arians aversion to using the screen to slow down the rush a little bit. Every other team in the universe does it. Why not Arians. As much as I love Ben at QB, I do think he needs to learn how to audible to a hot route a little better and QUIT SNAPPING THE BALL AT 1 SECOND every play. That drives me crazy. Even bad coaching staffs like the ones in Cleveland, Oakland and Kansas City can figure out when to send the blitz because it is always with one second left on the clock. I think I could figure that one out and I am certainly not a football genius.