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mesaSteeler
01-07-2010, 11:03 PM
NFL from the sidelines
http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/

After hobnobbing around the NFL in the press boxes and sidelines, sports reporter Dale Lolley will let you know the insider scoop.

Thursday, January 07, 2010
Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

Offensive line coach Larry Zierlein and special teams coordinator Bob Ligashesky are gone.

Quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson has retired.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is staying, apparently at the behest of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

What does it mean?

For one, it means that head coach Mike Tomlin was very serious when he said he's out to change the fact that Roethlisberger has been the most sacked quarterback in the league over the past four seasons.

Was that all Zierlein's fault? Nope. Roethlisberger was sacked 40-plus times in 2006 when Russ Grimm was still the offensive line coach in Pittsburgh and Ken Whisenhunt was the offensive coordinator.

But the team learned to live with Roethlisberger taking some of those sacks by holding the ball because him holding the ball also turned into some big plays for the offense.

While Arians will be back, some of the things the team does offensively will change. He and whoever the new QB coach is will work with Roethlisberger on getting rid of the ball more quickly - ie. reading defenses better - with the idea that they can prolong his career.

Roethlisberger has bucked that in the past because the coaching staff has been willing to live with the bad plays because the big plays were so great. But with the team's third-down conversion rate plunging this season to the bottom of the league and a defense that wasn't as dominant, the Steelers couldn't fight through the bad sacks this season. They just couldn't afford to lose that kind of field position.

Roethlisberger going to bat for Arians and getting his way is a bad sign for this team, however, in that it gives the QB the idea that he's in charge of this ship.

Should Roethlisberger have some say in the matter? Sure. But Tomlin had better have told him that if Arians stays, Roethlisberger had better spend the necessary time in the offseason working on getting rid of the ball more quickly.

Posted by Dale Lolley at 7:03 PM 6 comments Links to this post

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Was that all Zierlein's fault? Nope. Roethlisberger was sacked 40-plus times in 2006 when Russ Grimm was still the offensive line coach in Pittsburgh and Ken Whisenhunt was the offensive coordinator.

But the team learned to live with Roethlisberger taking some of those sacks by holding the ball because him holding the ball also turned into some big plays for the offense.

i finally get the philosophy now!

40 sacks = 3000+ yds passing
50 sacks = 4000+ yds passing

next year we will go for 60 sacks = 5000+ yds passing!

(this post was brought to you by the letters "sarcasm" and "arians logic i hope tomlin has snuffed out".)

seriously... i hope the biggest change is getting rid of the charlie manson "no sense, makes sense" offense. oh, and scrap the stupid "my little pony" backfield idea too.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "Ben saved Arians" thing?

Or are we just running with it as is because enough of the br.....I mean, um, regular posters like the idea?

Psyychoward86
01-07-2010, 11:26 PM
at least we're probably only gonna have Arians for one more year..

steelwalls
01-07-2010, 11:27 PM
Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "Ben saved Arians" thing?

Or are we just running with it as is because enough of the br.....I mean, um, regular posters like the idea?

Hard for me to believe Ben was the only one that voiced an opinion about Arians staying or going... guess he's the only one on the team now.... sigh

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 11:32 PM
Hard for me to believe Ben was the only one that voiced an opinion about Arians staying or going... guess he's the only one on the team now.... sightomlin conducted exit interviews with most (probably all of the players) before he began meeting with the coaches. this is what he said he would do on tuesday and santonio holmes confirms on the same day-

Season is over time to sped a lil qt wit the kids and family! Just had my final meeting with coach Tomlin, now back to the drawing board.

anyways has anyone actually confirmed this whole "rooneys love arians and think he is an offensive God" thing?

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 11:32 PM
at least we're probably only gonna have Arians for one more year..

That's EXACTLY what everyone who hates BA said at this point (when BA was retained for 2009) last year.

So the haters were wrong during last year, after last year, during this year AND after this year....but they are still just POSITIVE they are right and we just have to wait a little longer to see it.

But these same people want to give epic failure Sweed 400 more chances?

RoethlisBURGHer
01-07-2010, 11:38 PM
I think Arians can be an excellent coordinator if he tweaks his philosophy some. I have a feeling he was retained but told that if he doesn't add some power football to this package, his ass will be kicked out the door at the end of next season if not during it.

The one thing I hated about Cowher was the run the ball first and second down, third and long pass, punt offense. I don't want to go back to that, but we need to be more balanced. If Arians can do that, then he has a future here. But if we see empty backfield shotgun sets on third and one, he'll get canned.

I think the 2010 season, we will see Tomlin take more control of the offense. He may not be calling plays, but I think he might start vetoing plays and pushing a different philosophy upon Arians.

revefsreleets
01-07-2010, 11:47 PM
I think Arians can be an excellent coordinator if he tweaks his philosophy some. I have a feeling he was retained but told that if he doesn't add some power football to this package, his ass will be kicked out the door at the end of next season if not during it.

The one thing I hated about Cowher was the run the ball first and second down, third and long pass, punt offense. I don't want to go back to that, but we need to be more balanced. If Arians can do that, then he has a future here. But if we see empty backfield shotgun sets on third and one, he'll get canned.

I think the 2010 season, we will see Tomlin take more control of the offense. He may not be calling plays, but I think he might start vetoing plays and pushing a different philosophy upon Arians.

I think Tomlin already has his fingerprints all over some of the playcalling....that's probably part of the reason Arians is staying. People act like Arians just has carte blanche and does as he pleases, and that's almost certainly NOT the case. Tomlin likes to take risks....I think HE bears some of the culpability in the playcalling.

Other than that, much of what you said is probably true. There will probably be a concerted effort by ALL involved coaches to get that run/pass ratio closer to 50/50, and add an element of power running. And why not? The more looks you can throw at a defense the better!

RoethlisBURGHer
01-07-2010, 11:51 PM
I think Tomlin already has his fingerprints all over some of the playcalling....that's probably part of the reason Arians is staying. People act like Arians just has carte blanche and does as he pleases, and that's almost certainly NOT the case. Tomlin likes to take risks....I think HE bears some of the culpability in the playcalling.

Other than that, much of what you said is probably true. There will probably be a concerted effort by ALL involved coaches to get that run/pass ratio closer to 50/50, and add an element of power running. And why not? The more looks you can throw at a defense the better!

Exactly! :tt03:

It helps to have a running back that can run through people now too.

tony hipchest
01-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Other than that, much of what you said is probably true. There will probably be a concerted effort by ALL involved coaches to get that run/pass ratio closer to 50/50, and add an element of power running. And why not? The more looks you can throw at a defense the better!bu..bu..bu..because thats what the bu..bu..bu.."braintrust" has bu..bu..bu..been saying all along, and you have far to distanced yourself from that.

:sofunny: this tragic comedy just keeps getting better and better.

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 01:43 AM
Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "Ben saved Arians" thing?

Or are we just running with it as is because enough of the br.....I mean, um, regular posters like the idea?

To be honest, I think it's idle speculation. I've never actually seen a direct quote from Ben declaring his undying love for Bruce, although I did see pictures of them at prom together. Arians in taffeta is a sight, let me tell you.

I have seen several comments from Ben either stating clearly, or else suggesting that he openly questioned his play-calling, and so tried to change the call in the huddle. Throwing his lover under the bus in the post-game interviews regarding bad plays doesn't strike me as particularly devoted. I suspect this is another one of those self-perpetuating rumors.

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 01:44 AM
That's EXACTLY what everyone who hates BA said at this point (when BA was retained for 2009) last year.

So the haters were wrong during last year, after last year, during this year AND after this year....but they are still just POSITIVE they are right and we just have to wait a little longer to see it.

But these same people want to give epic failure Sweed 400 more chances?

Once again: Repeat the lie... that makes it true.

pepsyman1
01-08-2010, 02:27 AM
bu..bu..bu..because thats what the bu..bu..bu.."braintrust" has bu..bu..bu..been saying all along, and you have far to distanced yourself from that.

:sofunny: this tragic comedy just keeps getting better and better.

You noticed that too Tony? :chuckle:

Bluedust
01-08-2010, 02:53 AM
Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "Ben saved Arians" thing?

Or are we just running with it as is because enough of the br.....I mean, um, regular posters like the idea?

It provides more drama for the simians to cooler talk over.

MasterOfPuppets
01-08-2010, 03:22 AM
bu..bu..bu..because thats what the bu..bu..bu.."braintrust" has bu..bu..bu..been saying all along, and you have far to distanced yourself from that.

:sofunny: this tragic comedy just keeps getting better and better.

shhhhh...the guru has spoken... :bowdown:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2641/brutus2.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/brutus2.jpg/) http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/w512.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/)

WH
01-08-2010, 04:53 AM
It provides more drama for the simians to cooler talk over.

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 09:48 AM
shhhhh...the guru has spoken... :bowdown:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2641/brutus2.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/brutus2.jpg/) http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/w512.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/)

Question: I was admonished for being a troll and baiting people (which is false, I simply employ the same tactics that are used against me, but the babies have thin skin and HATE being called out when they are wrong). Whiners have said that I receive favorable treatment.

HOWEVER, a mod has asked me to stop using "braintrust", so I have......yet, those same people are allowed to continue mocking me by calling me the guru?

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Trust me, I don't really care what the eff you guys think of me, but I'm wondering why I can't continue to call out you brainiacs for the garbage and stupidity you spew, but you're allowed to bash me with impunity. Seems a bit....inequitable.

And I take it since there is no REAL answer to my question, that we're just going to roll with "Ben saved Arians" as a sop to dry the tears of the whiners who were just SURE that Arians was gone...they were wrong, so excuses must be made...

WH
01-08-2010, 02:11 PM
But these same people want to give epic failure Sweed 400 more chances? A gross exaggeration.

MACH1
01-08-2010, 02:20 PM
shhhhh...the guru has spoken... :bowdown:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2641/brutus2.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/brutus2.jpg/) http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/w512.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img46/brutus2.jpg/1/)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

tony hipchest
01-08-2010, 06:27 PM
:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:


Question: I was admonished for being a troll and baiting people (which is false, I simply employ the same tactics that are used against me, but the babies have thin skin and HATE being called out when they are wrong). Whiners have said that I receive favorable treatment.

HOWEVER, a mod has asked me to stop using "braintrust", so I have......yet, those same people are allowed to continue mocking me by calling me the guru?

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Trust me, I don't really care what the eff you guys think of me, but I'm wondering why I can't continue to call out you brainiacs for the garbage and stupidity you spew, but you're allowed to bash me with impunity. Seems a bit....inequitable.

And I take it since there is no REAL answer to my question, that we're just going to roll with "Ben saved Arians" as a sop to dry the tears of the whiners who were just SURE that Arians was gone...they were wrong, so excuses must be made...

:huh:

ANSWER: there is nothing wrong with being "the guru". hell, the love guru even shags babes. yeah baby. he just looks incredibly rediculous.

as you know "the guru" is never attatched to flame bait words shuch as

idiot
stupid
babies
thin skin
whiners
garbage
spew
etc...
:blah:

none of the "braintrust" is is CONSTANTLY complaining and crying about being bashed, hated, mocked, followed, made fun of, etc.. :thumbsup:

see the difference there? everyone else does. you came up with "braintrust" thinking it was cute and clever to elevate yourself above ANYONE on this board who doesnt agree with your every word lockstep (it was your "baby") :binky:

guru caught on due to your self elevated status and now all of a sudden you have a problem? youre not employing the same tactics. you are whining because you dished it out and cant take it in return (although it is kindly returned in fun and jest instead of the personal spite you tossed the first daggers with,

deal :wave:

plus its :wave:just a matter of time and your ego will accept it as a compliment.

X-Terminator
01-08-2010, 06:42 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if the term "braintrust" can't be used because many people had a problem with it (and they did), then it's only fair that "the guru" can't be used either. Or...both terms can be used and those who are offended will just have to accept it and deal. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Regardless, I'm sure the mods will deal with this as they see fit.

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 06:46 PM
You know, HTG admonished rev for using the term "brain trust", but this of course misses the mark entirely... well, not entirely. The main problem is his complete inability to compose a post without barbs, on any topic whatsoever, at any point in time. My inclusion in this mythic "brain trust" is something I'd already come to appreciate, and hold dear, and I now wear it with pride, like a chevron:
Card-carrying Member of the SFF Brain Trust
Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-08-2010, 06:55 PM
For the record, I have no issue with Ricardisimo being referred to as a card carrying member of the "Brain Trust", nor do I have a problem with Revs being referred to as the "Guru". Sounds like both are enjoying the respective titles and that Buckeye picture is freaking hilarious. :rofl:

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 07:50 PM
For the record, I have no issue with Ricardisimo being referred to as a card carrying member of the "Brain Trust", nor do I have a problem with Revs being referred to as the "Guru". Sounds like both are enjoying the respective titles and that Buckeye picture is freaking hilarious. :rofl:

The pic is good, and but for the beard you can almost make out the words "BRAIN TRUST" on his jersey.

MasterOfPuppets
01-08-2010, 07:56 PM
The pic is good, and but for the beard you can almost make out the words "BRAIN TRUST" on his jersey.

actually its brutus ...the name of the mascot....:chuckle:

ricardisimo
01-08-2010, 08:15 PM
actually its brutus ...the name of the mascot....:chuckle:

I know... I'm a recovering Buckeye myself.

steelreserve
01-08-2010, 08:27 PM
Wow, I'm gone for a few days and look what I miss ... brain trust ... gurus ... steelers fever backwards and more bitching. :jerkit:


For the record, I consider myself a member of the Steelers Fever Dick and Balls Trust. Do we have that yet? We should.

tony hipchest
01-08-2010, 08:53 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if the term "braintrust" can't be used because many people had a problem with it (and they did), then it's only fair that "the guru" can't be used either. Or...both terms can be used and those who are offended will just have to accept it and deal. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Regardless, I'm sure the mods will deal with this as they see fit.


anyone who had a problem with it isnt a true 'braintrust" member.


this goose is fine. its the gurugander who who seems upset.

i would much rather the mods allow revs use his "bu..bu..bu..baby" all he likes as opposed to giving up 'the guru", cause that shit is FU-NEE!

i did find it highly ironic that someone (you) was seemingly complaining about impending hazing and mocking if arians were fired, in the exact same post you had attempted to mock arians supporters as the "braintrust". :busted:

i implore the mods to re-allow the term "braintrust" as i believe it paints its users in a rosier light.

i see it as fine minus the half dozen personal attacks usually attached.

X-Terminator
01-08-2010, 10:17 PM
anyone who had a problem with it isnt a true 'braintrust" member.


this goose is fine. its the gurugander who who seems upset.

i would much rather the mods allow revs use his "bu..bu..bu..baby" all he likes as opposed to giving up 'the guru", cause that shit is FU-NEE!

i did find it highly ironic that someone (you) was seemingly complaining about impending hazing and mocking if arians were fired, in the exact same post you had attempted to mock arians supporters as the "braintrust". :busted:

i implore the mods to re-allow the term "braintrust" as i believe it paints its users in a rosier light.

i see it as fine minus the half dozen personal attacks usually attached.

I wasn't complaining so much as predicting it, because of the way people are. And yes, I did use the term because IMO it fits. I'm not going to run away from anything I say here; I own up to them.

Anyway, whatever. As I said, the mods will do what they see fit.

tony hipchest
01-08-2010, 10:37 PM
aso...

so you are a guru too? "fitting". :coffee:

were you predicting/expecting it because you know people reap what they sow, or simply because you have the nostrodomical "powers" to do so?

jKMK3XGO27k

tony hipchest
01-08-2010, 10:52 PM
know whats funny?

had arians infact been fired, all the guru's (who hadnt already in a preemptive strike) would have immediately come out of the woodwork with their group think predictions of how "the nation" would react upon the steelers first loss under the new coordinator.

....just like in 04 when mularkey was gone and the passing glory boy maddox was lost.

the gurus sure had a long time to wait to rag on brand new rookie coordinator, wisenhunt (who was brought back to restore "the steelers way") before they could complain about the supposed complainers.

15-1

43Hitman
01-08-2010, 11:05 PM
But these same people want to give epic failure Sweed 400 more chances?

Did you build this stawman all by yourself? Anyways I thought that thread was closed.

zulater
01-09-2010, 01:37 AM
As far as I'm concerned, if the term "braintrust" can't be used because many people had a problem with it (and they did), then it's only fair that "the guru" can't be used either. Or...both terms can be used and those who are offended will just have to accept it and deal. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Regardless, I'm sure the mods will deal with this as they see fit.

Personally I just wish the mods would stay the hell out of it. It all blows over in time, no one really gets hurt, and sometimes it's sort of entertaining in a train wreck sort of way. :toofunny:

markymarc
01-09-2010, 12:23 PM
Maybe Mike Tomlin can have a 1 on 1 with all of the brain trusts and gurus on this board :chuckle:

X-Terminator
01-09-2010, 08:04 PM
aso...

so you are a guru too? "fitting". :coffee:

were you predicting/expecting it because you know people reap what they sow, or simply because you have the nostrodomical "powers" to do so?

jKMK3XGO27k

I'm not falling for your obvious bait, Tony, so try someone else. I've said my peace.

HometownGal
01-09-2010, 09:56 PM
tomlin conducted exit interviews with most (probably all of the players) before he began meeting with the coaches. this is what he said he would do on tuesday and santonio holmes confirms on the same day-

Season is over time to sped a lil qt wit the kids and family! Just had my final meeting with coach Tomlin, now back to the drawing board.

anyways has anyone actually confirmed this whole "rooneys love arians and think he is an offensive God" thing?

Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "the only reason Arians is staying is because Ben pimped him" thing?

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is staying, apparently at the behest of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.


Proof, please. Until proof is provided with regard to that statement, it's just another unsubstantiated and meritless rumor to me. If the rest of you want to believe everything that comes out of a media jock's mouth/font, knock yourselves out.

Dino 6 Rings
01-09-2010, 10:13 PM
I officially ordain that I am the one and only "BrainTrust Guru".

Here is my case

I disagree with the overall approach that Bruce takes when calling plays. I also read a lot of quotes about people being worried about Individual stats, instead of the team, and if that means a 4,000 yard Passer or 2 1,000 yard Receivers HURT our over all team performance, then, I call those failures, because its about Getting to the Playoffs and having a chance to win it all. yes, winning every game, every year, forever would be, well just dreamy, but no one really believes that. However, as Steelers fans, we can, in August, believe, that we have the talent, and coaching to get to the Playoffs, every single season.

Now, this year, what makes me the Braintrust Guru, is I see the Entire Picture of Failure. I see Dick L, calling the same defense he would when the greatest safety of all time is in the game, as well as when he's not in the game. I get that we are supposed to have guys that "step up" but asking Woody Allen to step into the role of Super Man mid crisis, isn't going to get the job done.

I see the failures on the Special Teams, with missed FGs, Missed tackles, bad punt coverage and bad Kickoff coverage. I see the failures of the Oline, bad communication allowing Hank Poteat to get an untouched sack on Ben? really? Poteat? I mean, I loved the guy at Pitt but really? Hank Poteat? Seriously?

I see the fumbles by our Running backs in the Redzone, quite a few in fact. I see our Ward fumbles, our Wallace fumble, our Dropped passes by Ward, Wallace, Miller, Sweed, Mendenhall, Parker, Moore and so on.

I see Farrior missing coverage and Timmons missing tackles. I see Ike dropping Ints and getting burned deep. I See Clark going for knock out hits and drawing penalties, I see holding on 3rd downs and automatic first downs going for the other team.

I am the Braintrust Guru because this year was not a Bruce Failure, a Tomlin Farrior, a LeBeau failure, a Taylor Failure or Big Ben Failure. It wasn't a Reed Failure, a Zierlein Failure or a Ligashecky failure.

No...I am the Braintrust Guru because the 2009 Football Season was a complete PITTSBURGH STEELER FAILURE!

The entire organization Epic Failed at one moment or another and that is the reason I am watching these other teams play when I want to be watching MY TEAM Play.

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 12:05 AM
No...I am the Braintrust Guru because the 2009 Football Season was a complete PITTSBURGH STEELER FAILURE!

The entire organization Epic Failed at one moment or another and that is the reason I am watching these other teams play when I want to be watching MY TEAM Play.

exactly dino. so the question now becomes "what do we do to fix this" going into '10?

we started on ST. while there were no thunderous moves, we brought back davis, madison, and added boiman. no big deal, but we havent allowed a ST td or the teams havent cost us any games in the last 4 weeks.

also the ST coach has been fired. why bobby april isnt a steeler again, beats me.

troy and smith are said to be well on the road to recovery and chomping at the bit to get back. those problems will take care of itself.

the coaches will soon go to the sr. bowl and scout new talent for the D (which should certainly assist the ST). the FO will look at clark, hampton and others in free agency, and then the FO staff, and tomlin, along with the owners will devise a plan of who to retain, and who to draft. i expect both our defense and special teams will get better, with the influx of new youth and retaining the likes of reed, hampton and clark.

i expect next years D to be vastly improved, especially with hood, and our 2 rookie cb's with another year under their belt.

so that just leaves the offense....















:confused:

our offensive talent is set. i dont know how you get much better than ben, mendenhall, holmes, hines, wallace, and miller. :noidea:

well, since i guess arians is the bestest ever, we can just fire the line coach (ignoring that russ grimms unit with faneca and hartings allowed just 4 less sacks) and hope that changes the philosophy that failed us in '09.

:thumbsup:

"Yeah baby!"

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/shortyshane_2006/lovegurunewtrailer.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
01-10-2010, 12:16 AM
yep...arians has already proven to be to stubborn in his philosophy and tomlin has already proven he'll do nothing about it....: 5 wide baby !!! :thumbsup: i wouldn't be suprised to see them draft a receiver first rd to bolster that 5 wide attack....

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 12:24 AM
yep...arians has already proven to be to stubborn in his philosophy and tomlin has already proven he'll do nothing about it....: 5 wide baby !!! :thumbsup: i wouldn't be suprised to see them draft a receiver first rd to bolster that 5 wide attack....why draft one? we got SWEEED! :tt02:

i trust the coaches and front office. he has been a steelers wr almost as long as arians has been OC and there is no way they could be wrong, make a mistake, or stick with an employee too long.

:popcorn:

MasterOfPuppets
01-10-2010, 12:32 AM
why draft one? we got SWEEED! :tt02:

i trust the coaches and front office. he has been a steelers wr almost as long as arians has been OC and there is no way they could be wrong, make a mistake, or stick with an employee too long.

:popcorn:
well sweed only makes 4 ... you need 5 to go 5 wide baby ...:tt03: ...cut all the RB's and have 10 receivers on the roster...:thumbsup:

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 01:17 AM
Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "Ben saved Arians" thing?


Has anyone actually confirmed this whole "the only reason Arians is staying is because Ben pimped him" thing?

.

*yells "YES" into the echo chamber*

i just dont get it.

you guys MUST concede these 3 facts (especially since i have witnessed you use them as a defense in the past)-

-ben had input in arians streamlining cowhers old 1000+ page offensive playbook.

-ben sits in on meetings every week when the coaches devise that weeks game plan.

- ben is allowed to call his own plays.

yet now you wanna pretend that he has absolutely no influence, and that it is so shockingly impossible to believe that he does???

:shake02:

WH
01-10-2010, 04:59 AM
HTG, How would you like for it to be proven? Do we need to source ESPN? CNN? PPG? The Trib? what sources do you, or anyone else for that matter, consider a valid source?

Jim Wexell's posted on his Twitter account that the reason that Arians is staying is because of Ben.

If no one here considers Twitter as a place to get news rumors etc.... than let's come out and say so.

I would assume that a reputable source would be any printed media outlet and a few sports websites and NFL.com.

I'm not being facetious with these questions, I just want to be clear on what is and is not considered a valid source.

zulater
01-10-2010, 06:51 AM
HTG, How would you like for it to be proven? Do we need to source ESPN? CNN? PPG? The Trib? what sources do you, or anyone else for that matter, consider a valid source?

Jim Wexell's posted on his Twitter account that the reason that Arians is staying is because of Ben.

If no one here considers Twitter as a place to get news rumors etc.... than let's come out and say so.

I would assume that a reputable source would be any printed media outlet and a few sports websites and NFL.com.

I'm not being facetious with these questions, I just want to be clear on what is and is not considered a valid source.

You know how these reporters just make things up. Just look at their history, see how Wexall, Laird, and Lolley have been caught in countess lies? ( I just can't seem to find any no matter how hard I look for some damn reason, but I know they must be out there, because I've been assured that these flamers just make things up for fun)

Just like when that nasty old Ed Werder made up all those unsubstanitated rumors about T.O. creating a locker room rift in Dallas last year. Remember how "real fans" of the Cowboys rushed to TO's defense? And of course no one inside the locker room would actually admit on record what was going on, so obviously Werder just made it all up. Because reporters don't care about things like credibility, they'd much rather incite "real fans" with nonsense. Thank god no one that matters paid attention to Werder vile lies so the Cowboys and TO could go on and have this excellent season this year proving once and for all that Werder was wrong!

Uh what's that you say? T.O.s in Buffalo and the Cowboys are a much better team without him? Uh never mind. :doh:

:wink02:

HometownGal
01-10-2010, 07:58 AM
*yells "YES" into the echo chamber*

i just dont get it.

you guys MUST concede these 3 facts (especially since i have witnessed you use them as a defense in the past)-

-ben had input in arians streamlining cowhers old 1000+ page offensive playbook.

-ben sits in on meetings every week when the coaches devise that weeks game plan.

- ben is allowed to call his own plays.

yet now you wanna pretend that he has absolutely no influence, and that it is so shockingly impossible to believe that he does???

:shake02:

Please provide us with a credible link (credible meaning from the Steelers FO, Tomlin or Ben himself) and then maybe we can have a serious discussion on this. Otherwise - I'm standing my ground here.

The 3 tidbits you cited above don't have anything to do with Ben's "powers" as far as retaining personnel. Period. :banging:

HometownGal
01-10-2010, 08:09 AM
HTG, How would you like for it to be proven? Do we need to source ESPN? CNN? PPG? The Trib? what sources do you, or anyone else for that matter, consider a valid source?



This one's easy and requires only a half ounce of common sense.

1. The Steelers FO; and/or
2. Coach Tomlin.

Jim Wexell's posted on his Twitter account that the reason that Arians is staying is because of Ben.

If no one here considers Twitter as a place to get news rumors etc.... than let's come out and say so.



OK - I'll come out and say so.

I don't consider Twitter as a reliable source of credible information. Never have, never will. Silly me for not putting credence into a talking turkey's "rumors". :banging: What's next - citing Myspace and Facebook as "reliable" news sources?

I would assume that a reputable source would be any printed media outlet and a few sports websites and NFL.com.



As I learned long ago - never assume. You have a 50% chance of being wrong. :drink:

Are you naive enough to believe that just because a story is circulated via a printed media outlet it is fact? I can't even begin to tell you how many stories I've read or heard over the years from supposedly reputable news sources which have turned out to be nothing more than rumors, eventually proven to be false drama stirrers. To cite an example- Dan Rather is still trying to get the yellow from the egg yolk off of his mug (as is Laird).

I'm not being facetious with these questions, I just want to be clear on what is and is not considered a valid source.

I provided my answer in the first paragraph above.

zulater
01-10-2010, 03:38 PM
Please provide us with a credible link (credible meaning from the Steelers FO, Tomlin or Ben himself) and then maybe we can have a serious discussion on this. Otherwise - I'm standing my ground here.

The 3 tidbits you cited above don't have anything to do with Ben's "powers" as far as retaining personnel. Period. :banging:

Who ever admits anything as long as some level of plausible deniability exists? :toofunny:

WH
01-10-2010, 03:50 PM
This one's easy and requires only a half ounce of common sense.

1. The Steelers FO; and/or
2. Coach Tomlin.


Right, but what if Tomlin gets a Twitter account?

zulater
01-10-2010, 03:51 PM
Right, but what if Tomlin gets a Twitter account?

:rofl:

tony hipchest
01-10-2010, 05:18 PM
I don't consider Twitter as a reliable source of credible information. Never have, never will. Silly me for not putting credence into a talking turkey's "rumors". :banging: What's next - citing Myspace and Facebook as "reliable" news sources?



.well i dont know who or what on this board has the power to determine what is a reliable source of credible information. it is all subjective, but i ask you this...

in your OPINION, are the likes of jay glazer, adam schefter, chris mortenson and peter king reliable sources of credible information or do you just doubt EVERYONE not named rooney or tomlin?

and since when has it become the front office's and head coaches job to report news? do they all hold press conferences because they are retarded and dont know the way it is supposed to be done?

zulater
01-10-2010, 07:26 PM
well i dont know who or what on this board has the power to determine what is a reliable source of credible information. it is all subjective, but i ask you this...

in your OPINION, are the likes of jay glazer, adam schefter, chris mortenson and peter king reliable sources of credible information or do you just doubt EVERYONE not named rooney or tomlin?

and since when has it become the front office's and head coaches job to report news? do they all hold press conferences because they are retarded and dont know the way it is supposed to be done?

Good post. :thumbsup:

markymarc
01-11-2010, 05:33 PM
adam schefter

Adam Schefter is as good as it gets IMO for football information!

tony hipchest
01-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Adam Schefter is as good as it gets IMO for football information!

yeah, i agree, but he has a twitter account that he often breaks news on, so appearantly he is not a credible source of reliable information.

Filed to ESPN: Patriots senior football advisor Floyd Reese is scheduled to interview for the Seahawks general managers job this week.

I love Buffalo, tremendous fans, and don't mean to disappoint. But Bill Cowher will not wind up as the Bills coach this season.

Dolphins announced they have terminated the contract of Defensive Coordinator Paul Pasqualoni.

Browns named Tom Heckert, Jr. as the club’s General Manager and Bryan Wiedmeier as Executive Vice President – Business Operations.

Lots of tweets on Romeo Crennel to Chiefs -- not done yet, but will be. Crennel will wind up on Kansas City's defensive staff in 2010.

i guess all of this is lies and cant be believed since its 1st posted on twitter. :noidea:

WH
01-11-2010, 07:08 PM
yeah, i agree, but he has a twitter account that he often breaks news on, so appearantly he is not a credible source of reliable information.
i guess all of this is lies and cant be believed since its 1st posted on twitter. :noidea:
I don't think Tomlin or the Rooneys are going to be announcing any of this news anytime soon.....so we're screwed.

fansince'76
01-11-2010, 07:11 PM
well i dont know who or what on this board has the power to determine what is a reliable source of credible information. it is all subjective, but i ask you this...

in your OPINION, are the likes of jay glazer, adam schefter, chris mortenson and peter king reliable sources of credible information or do you just doubt EVERYONE not named rooney or tomlin?

and since when has it become the front office's and head coaches job to report news? do they all hold press conferences because they are retarded and dont know the way it is supposed to be done?

Likewise, do you question ANYTHING you read or hear when it's presented as "news?"

revefsreleets
01-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Adam Schefter is as good as it gets IMO for football information!

In 2005 he had us at 7-9 and second to last in the AFC North.

Now, does that speak to his ability to fabricate stories? No. But it certainly undermines his ability to prognosticate.

Round and round and round the BA haters go, but the fact remains the same.

Rooney's promoted BA in 2007.
They retained him in 2008.
They retained him in 2009.
And they've retained him in 2010.

Was Ben responsible for all those years or just this one? Or do you all just want to FINALLY STFU and let the guy do his job?

zulater
01-11-2010, 07:49 PM
In 2005 he had us at 7-9 and second to last in the AFC North.

Now, does that speak to his ability to fabricate stories? No. But it certainly undermines his ability to prognosticate.


Round and round and round the BA haters go, but the fact remains the same.

Rooney's promoted BA in 2007.

Tomlin did. The Rooney's aren't Al Davis. They don't pick the coaching staff for the head coach. They just pick the head coach.

Think if I tell you this 5 or 6 more times it might sink in? :screwy: .





They retained him in 2008.
They retained him in 2009.
And they've retained him in 2010.

Tomlin, Tomlin, and don't know?

Was Ben responsible for all those years or just this one? Or do you all just want to FINALLY STFU and let the guy do his job?

You remind me of Mark McGuire supporters who refused to believe he was juicing despite a ton of evidence to suggest it was so. No positives tests they would say, where's the evidence... :blah:

Not everything in life comes with a link. Sometimes you've got to connet the dots all by yourself, especially in sports. No one in sports or politics ever admits to anything as long as a sliver of plausible deniability exists.

If there was some inner conflict with the Steelers concerning a player or coaches retention do you really think they'd have a press conference afterwards and explain why after the fact?

I could just see it.

On Wednesday the Steelers announce they're going to sign Jeff Reed to a 3 year contract.

On Thursday the Steelers hold a press conference explaining how they were split 50/50 about retaining Jeff, because his kickoffs suck and he can be a major a-hole when he gets a few blasts into him. :doh:

In other words once the decision is made you close ranks and support the choice as if it were unanimous. There's no reason to announce otherwise.

I hope that helps revs. :hatsoff:


But I know it wont. :toofunny:

MasterOfPuppets
01-11-2010, 08:16 PM
You remind me of Mark McGuire supporters who refused to believe he was juicing despite a ton of evidence to suggest it was so. No positives tests they would say, where's the evidence... :blah:




and OJ was innocent ....:thumbsup:

zulater
01-11-2010, 08:19 PM
and OJ was innocent ....:thumbsup:

And Ed Werder was making up lies anout T.O. creating a rift in the Cowboys locker room.

We should start a list.

:toofunny:

stillers4me
01-11-2010, 08:19 PM
jn81tOrs3WQ

revefsreleets
01-11-2010, 08:37 PM
You remind me of Mark McGuire supporters who refused to believe he was juicing despite a ton of evidence to suggest it was so. No positives tests they would say, where's the evidence... :blah:

Not everything in life comes with a link. Sometimes you've got to connet the dots all by yourself, especially in sports. No one in sports or politics ever admits to anything as long as a sliver of plausible deniability exists.

If there was some inner conflict with the Steelers concerning a player or coaches retention do you really think they'd have a press conference afterwards and explain why after the fact?

I could just see it.

On Wednesday the Steelers announce they're going to sign Jeff Reed to a 3 year contract.

On Thursday the Steelers hold a press conference explaining how they were split 50/50 about retaining Jeff, because his kickoffs suck and he can be a major a-hole when he gets a few blasts into him. :doh:

In other words once the decision is made you close ranks and support the choice as if it were unanimous. There's no reason to announce otherwise.

I hope that helps revs. :hatsoff:


But I know it wont. :toofunny:

I DID connect the dots.....long before (like LAST year) any of the haters did.

The Steelers were undergoing a sea change. The fans didn't like it....and they like it less this year.

Whatever.

They (read: you and others like you who think you know better) were and are wrong.

That's all. Really, that's pretty much all there is to it. You can protest all you like, and stomp your feet and quote PFT and individuals from radio 1250 and anonymous sources from the organization and anything you like but..................


You're still wrong.

Time to stop blaming and hating the people who were right just because they understood things differently than you....

zulater
01-11-2010, 08:59 PM
I DID connect the dots.....long before (like LAST year) any of the haters did.

The Steelers were undergoing a sea change.

What they had an aquarium? :noidea:

The fans didn't like it....and they like it less this year.

I could care less. Once the decison's made it's made. You move on. Hope for the best but brace for the worst..

Whatever.

They (read: you and others like you who think you know better) were and are wrong.

What exactly are we wrong about? That there was some internal debate about how good a job Arains did last year and if they should retain him. It happened. Just like Barry Bonds took 'roids when he broke the single season home record. But if like S.F. Giants fans, living in denial makes you sleep better at night that's fine by me. :coffee:

That's all. Really, that's pretty much all there is to it. You can protest all you like, and stomp your feet and quote PFT and individuals from radio 1250 and anonymous sources from the organization and anything you like but..................


You're still wrong.

That's your opinion. Mine says your deluding yourself. Too much smoke to be no fire. Bruce won out in the end. Good for him. I hope it serves as a wake up call and he does a better job next year. I think that's all any of us "haters" want. :toofunny: .

Time to stop blaming and hating the people who were right just because they understood things differently than you....

I love how this matters so much to you that you have to interject the word hate into the conversation. :rofl:

I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say we're all rooting for Bruce. I want to be a convert. I'm just a tad skeptical.

revefsreleets
01-11-2010, 09:07 PM
What's up with the constant capping? Are your thoughts worth more than mine? Or others?

Elvis was banned for the lesser offenses.

I'm about done with you....posting nonsense in all caps is still just nonsense in bigger letters...

zulater
01-11-2010, 09:10 PM
What's up with the constant capping? Are your thoughts worth more than mine? Or others?

Elvis was banned for the lesser offenses.

I'm about done with you....posting nonsense in all caps is still just nonsense in bigger letters...

I'm capping? where? :noidea:

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Just trying to differentiate who's saying what. Next time I'll use colors. :wave:

revefsreleets
01-11-2010, 09:12 PM
Bullshit in big colored letters is just big and pretty bullshit.

Your response makes me think I should choose a smaller font to post in. If there's a correlation, I need tiny font to counteract your big giant bullshit font.

zulater
01-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Bullshit in big colored letters is just big and pretty bullshit.

Your response makes me think I should choose a smaller font to post in. If there's a correlation, I need tiny font to counteract your big giant bullshit font.

I told you it wasn't meant to offend or belittle. But what you're doing obviously is. But that's ok, it's readily evident you have no real answers, and are just looking for an easy out. So go ahead and pretend i don't exist. Just like you pretend that you're smarter than everyone else here. And that you win every argument on these boards. And that Arians was in no danger of losing his job, and the Rooneys might not be his biggest fans. Pretending to achieve your own reality is what you seem to do best as far as I can tell.

ricardisimo
01-12-2010, 04:27 AM
In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, here's Scott Brown's latest take:

Changes coming for the Steelers' offense
January 7th, 2010

The Steelers issuing a release today that special teams coordinator Bob Ligashesky and offensive line coach Larry Zierlein have been “relieved” of their duties is a clear indication that Mike Tomlin is finished handing out pink slips.

His focus now shifts to hiring new assistants for the first time since he took over as the Steelers’ coach in 2007.

The big question is what changes are coming for the offense beyond a new quarterbacks and offensive line coach?

All indications are that Tomlin at least considered getting rid of Bruce Arians even though the Steelers had a 4,000-yard passer, two 1,000-yard receivers and a 1,000-yard rusher for the first time in franchise history.

Arians is coming back for at least another season as the Steelers’ offensive coordinator though there probably were conditions attached to his return.

Tomlin said earlier this week that the Steelers need to cut down on the number of times quarterback Ben Roethlisberger gets hit.

Roethlisberger isn’t going to change his sandlot style of play; it’s simply not in his DNA to give up on a play or throw the ball away even in the interests of self preservation.

What has to change if Tomlin wants to better protect the franchise centerpiece and $102 million man is the number of times Roethlisberger drops back to pass.

Roethlisberger attempted a career-high 506 passes in 15 games this season — or 238 more than he attempted in 12 games in 2005.

While that reflects an overall shift in the NFL toward a pass-first mentality as well as Arians’ philosophy, the Steelers are in position to reign in the passing game.

Rashard Mendenhall is more suited for a power running game than Willie Parker. However, if I were the Steelers I’d try to bring back Parker, whose contract has expired, and pair him with Mendenhall in a true running back tandem.

There can be room for both if the Steelers put more of an emphasis on running the ball.

And that appears to be the direction in which they are heading — even with Arians still calling the plays.

I'm hoping that last bit is not correct, about Arians still calling the plays. I think he might possibly be great one day at just about everything but play-calling.

Running the ball more would be nice.

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 07:36 AM
In 2005 he had us at 7-9 and second to last in the AFC North.

Now, does that speak to his ability to fabricate stories? No. But it certainly undermines his ability to prognosticate.

Round and round and round the BA haters go, but the fact remains the same.

Rooney's promoted BA in 2007.
They retained him in 2008.
They retained him in 2009.
And they've retained him in 2010.

Was Ben responsible for all those years or just this one? Or do you all just want to FINALLY STFU and let the guy do his job?

AMEN. Good post. :thumbsup:

Tony - if you want to believe everything you read or hear, that is your right, but it is also MY right to be skeptical of what I read and/or hear whether it involves sports or news in general. You all were thumping your chests when the lie was reported about Arians being given the heave ho and when it turned out to be a fabrication, you're all spinning your wheels with these ridiculous conspiracy theories. Let it go. Bruce Arians is here to stay in 2010 because the Rooneys and/or Tomlin or both decided that is what THEY want, which is all that really matters, as they make the decisions and the Rooneys sign the paychecks. :willy:

Steeldude
01-12-2010, 09:23 AM
While Arians will be back, some of the things the team does offensively will change. He and whoever the new QB coach is will work with Roethlisberger on getting rid of the ball more quickly - ie. reading defenses better - with the idea that they can prolong his career.

weren't some of us fans saying this needed to happen, years ago?

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 12:43 PM
You all were thumping your chests when the lie was reported about Arians being given the heave ho :bs: sorry htg, but i gotta call you out on this bs. i most certainly was not thumping my chest in the arians fired thread.

i made a point NOT to (not only because we were threatened with having our posts deleted but) because i knew people were hypersensitive, probably brought to the point of tears, and ready to attend the candle light vigil for saint arians. :chuckle:

*crosses self and whispers a hail mary*

zulater
01-12-2010, 12:50 PM
AMEN. Good post. :thumbsup:

Tony - if you want to believe everything you read or hear, that is your right, but it is also MY right to be skeptical of what I read and/or hear whether it involves sports or news in general. You all were thumping your chests when the lie was reported about Arians being given the heave ho and when it turned out to be a fabrication, you're all spinning your wheels with these ridiculous conspiracy theories. Let it go. Bruce Arians is here to stay in 2010 because the Rooneys and/or Tomlin or both decided that is what THEY want, which is all that really matters, as they make the decisions and the Rooneys sign the paychecks. :willy:

How is that a good post? You guys always want the links, well show me the link where the Rooneys' hire and retain asst coaches? You're thinking Al Davis I believe, because to the best of my knowledge once the Rooney's hire the coach they allow him to decide the make up of his staff?

WH
01-12-2010, 12:55 PM
I think HTG is just trying to pound home that most of the people on this forum are tired of talking about Bruce ''saved by the hairs on my Benny Ben Ben'' Arians.

If someone can get a Dick Lebeau needs to go thread up and going without a mob wielding pitchforks and torches showing up at their house, I'd be more than happy to post in it.

tony hipchest
01-12-2010, 12:59 PM
thats the thing... nobody believes that dick lebeau needs to go.

X-Terminator
01-12-2010, 01:01 PM
:bs: sorry htg, but i gotta call you out on this bs. i most certainly was not thumping my chest in the arians fired thread.

i made a point NOT to (not only because we were threatened with having our posts deleted but) because i knew people were hypersensitive, probably brought to the point of tears, and ready to attend the candle light vigil for saint arians. :chuckle:

*crosses self and whispers a hail mary*

Not here. If Tomlin fired Arians, that would have been it for me, because the decision would have been made. That is in stark contrast to all of these threads and posts by people who cannot move on and accept that the decision had been made to retain him.

zulater
01-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Not here. If Tomlin fired Arians, that would have been it for me, because the decision would have been made. That is in stark contrast to all of these threads and posts by people who cannot move on and accept that the decision had been made to retain him.

Honestly I've accepted Arains return. Not a problem, with a good draft, a good spring of OTA's and a focused and intense camp at Latrobe things whould work out just fine. :tt04:

Until the first empty back set on first and goal or third and one that is. :chuckle::wink02:

WH
01-12-2010, 01:17 PM
thats the thing... nobody believes that dick lebeau needs to go.

Based on this season, It's surprising.

X-Terminator
01-12-2010, 01:41 PM
Based on this season, It's surprising.

Not to me. I believe Lebeau has earned the right to leave on his own terms. That does NOT, however, mean that he is above criticism. He's a great DC, but he ain't God.

WH
01-12-2010, 01:48 PM
Not to me. I believe Lebeau has earned the right to leave on his own terms. That does NOT, however, mean that he is above criticism. He's a great DC, but he ain't God.

I think it's widely believed that he is though. I've seen some people try to criticize him and they are promptly told they are full of crap.

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 02:00 PM
How is that a good post? You guys always want the links, well show me the link where the Rooneys' hire and retain asst coaches? You're thinking Al Davis I believe, because to the best of my knowledge once the Rooney's hire the coach they allow him to decide the make up of his staff?

Ask XT. He crafted the post. Oh that's right - it's easier to follow me around taking shots at me and my posts. Silly me. :doh:

sorry htg, but i gotta call you out on this bs. i most certainly was not thumping my chest in the arians fired thread.

i made a point NOT to (not only because we were threatened with having our posts deleted but) because i knew people were hypersensitive, probably brought to the point of tears, and ready to attend the candle light vigil for saint arians.

*crosses self and whispers a hail mary*

Maybe YOU weren't thumping your chest per se, but you and several of the "Tony sheeple" :wink: have taken your fair share of little underhanded shots at those of us who have supported BA and continue to support him. You just did so again in your post above. :bs:

*sprays this thread with Febreze*

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Not to me. I believe Lebeau has earned the right to leave on his own terms. That does NOT, however, mean that he is above criticism. He's a great DC, but he ain't God.

He most definitely has earned the right to leave on his own terms and you are absolutely right - he is NOT above criticism for the deplorable play this season by the unit HE is responsible for. As I always say - good units overcome adversity and this unit, under Lebeau, certainly did not. Just because Dick Lebeau is a lock for the HOF doesn't give him a free pass or a shield from criticism.

Godfather
01-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Should Roethlisberger have some say in the matter? Sure. But Tomlin had better have told him that if Arians stays, Roethlisberger had better spend the necessary time in the offseason working on getting rid of the ball more quickly.


Nah. What Tomlin needs to say to Ben is "Do you know who else liked Arians?"

zulater
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
He most definitely has earned the right to leave on his own terms and you are absolutely right - he is NOT above criticism for the deplorable play this season by the unit HE is responsible for. As I always say - good units overcome adversity and this unit, under Lebeau, certainly did not. Just because Dick Lebeau is a lock for the HOF doesn't give him a free pass or a shield from criticism.



With that secondary what exactly would you have had him do differently?

HometownGal
01-12-2010, 03:24 PM
With that secondary what exactly would you have had him do differently?

I see you once again picked at my post. Gee - what a shocker. :rolleyes:

Lebeau is paid handsomely for his expertise and just as Arians is expected to do - improvise when the going gets tough. I'm not an expert - and neither are you - but Dick Lebeau is and just as you people hold Arians accountable for what you view as "offensive woes", Papa Lebeau should be held accountable for his unit's woes as well. He does not get a free pass from me. Again - good units overcome adversity, which this Steelers D (and its coach) simply did not.

zulater
01-12-2010, 03:38 PM
I see you once again picked at my post. Gee - what a shocker. :rolleyes:

Lebeau is paid handsomely for his expertise and just as Arians is expected to do - improvise when the going gets tough. I'm not an expert - and neither are you - but Dick Lebeau is and just as you people hold Arians accountable for what you view as "offensive woes", Papa Lebeau should be held accountable for his unit's woes as well. He does not get a free pass from me. Again - good units overcome adversity, which this Steelers D (and its coach) simply did not.

I respond to lots of people's posts.

But to topic. There's excuses, then there's reasons. Losing Troy and Aaron for the amount of time we did this year was monumental and imo insurmountable. To me those two would equate to losing Ben and Heath on offense. I really couldn't see our offense doing much had those two missed a similiar amount of time. That's why I'm inclined to give LeBeau a mulligan on the season.

WH
01-12-2010, 04:36 PM
To be fair, Zu was responding to my post as well.

vrabinec
01-12-2010, 04:39 PM
To be fair, Zu was responding to my post as well.

Zu's a trouble maker....always has been.

WH
01-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Zu's a trouble maker....always has been.

Preaching to the choir.