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View Full Version : Tomlin & Arians - Who needs them ?


Bobby_Walden
01-08-2010, 03:42 AM
As soon as you express concern about BA and the lack of "Steeler Football" there is no shortage of those who scream "We got like a billion yards...we had all kinds of players with huge stats..." blah, blah, blah...

And we also didn't score many points. I thought that was the entire point. To score.

Interesting that this debate is really widespread in Steeler Nation.
Very big topic.

A big part of the defense of BA is the "We won the superbowl with him..."
Well, so what, we won it 2 yrs, before without him as OC.
Same for MT,,,we won it without him too.

The real reason we won it both of those times was a man named Ben.
The NFL is a QB league. How many Superbowls did Shanahan win after Elway retired ? How many did Dallas win after Staubach ? Then how many with Aikman ? How many did Belicheck win before Brady ? It's a QB league. Always was.

Cowher was a great coach here for 15 yrs. Tons of wins and playoffs. No SB win until he had a top notch QB, named Ben.

Remember that run in 2005-06 winning the whole deal ? No MT, No BA(as OC).

I say I don't like the direction of the team is going. Period. We won the SB last time because of a solid D and Ben.

We won it without this staff recently...we'll win it without them in the future.

I don't like the attitude of the team under this staff. I'll take Cowher and his clear captain of the ship demeanor anyday. For 5 games this team quit on this staff...why is that ? Think about it.

Tomlin and BA can cruise out of here for all I care. They are not horrible...they are not needed either. This organization would be just as successful with another coaching staff. I prefer one that plays "Steeler Ball"

HometownGal
01-08-2010, 05:10 AM
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. What are we to do with you, eh? :banging:

And we also didn't score many points. I thought that was the entire point. To score.


The entire "point" is to win games. Other than 2 games this season, the Steelers O put up more than enough points to win, and thus, did their job as a unit. On the other hand, the D is supposed to keep points OFF the board and in at least 5 games (with an additional 3 that very easily could have been losses had the O not bailed them out), they didn't do their job as a unit. Very simple, actually. :drink:

Imho - BA and Tomlin, for the most part, did their jobs too. We're not going to get to the playoffs and win the big game every season and this year, we had a bump in the road which hopefully is only a temporary bump. I have every confidence that the problems that beseiged this team this season will be rectified by the start of the season next year. :hope:

Bobby_Walden
01-08-2010, 08:17 AM
Your right. No doubt the D let us down. We would have won more games for sure if the D had not wilted in the 4th quarter so much.

We don't disagree on that.

I just don't like Tomlin or Arians. 3rd and 1 - No backs...terrible.

I just didn't see tons of points come with all of those yards.
Not my kind of offense.

I also believe when you pound the ball running...you set a tone for the whole team.

But, you are right...the D is the overall bigger culprit in 09.

steelax04
01-08-2010, 08:19 AM
Don't we already have threads covering this topic?

vasteeler
01-08-2010, 08:35 AM
Don't we already have threads covering this topic?

only abouy 1000 whats a few more gonna hurt:rolleyes:

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 09:08 AM
Yeah! More people who questioning the decision FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW of the Rooney's to keep BA!

Yay!

X-Terminator
01-08-2010, 09:21 AM
Yeah, and a couple of people didn't believe me when I said there would be an anti-Ben (and anti-MT, evidently) backlash because BA is still the OC.

I know The Nation like a book, people. I've lived here too long and have overheard too much while being out on the street or riding the bus to work every day. The backlash is GOING TO HAPPEN. Bank it.

revefsreleets
01-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Yeah, and a couple of people didn't believe me when I said there would be an anti-Ben (and anti-MT, evidently) backlash because BA is still the OC.

I know The Nation like a book, people. I've lived here too long and have overheard too much while being out on the street or riding the bus to work every day. The backlash is GOING TO HAPPEN. Bank it.

Or Bush...this could still conceivable end up ALL being blamed on Bush. Or Cheney.

memphissteelergirl
01-08-2010, 09:26 AM
As soon as you express concern about BA and the lack of "Steeler Football" there is no shortage of those who scream "We got like a billion yards...we had all kinds of players with huge stats..." blah, blah, blah...

And we also didn't score many points. I thought that was the entire point. To score.

Interesting that this debate is really widespread in Steeler Nation.
Very big topic.

A big part of the defense of BA is the "We won the superbowl with him..."
Well, so what, we won it 2 yrs, before without him as OC.
Same for MT,,,we won it without him too.

The real reason we won it both of those times was a man named Ben.
The NFL is a QB league. How many Superbowls did Shanahan win after Elway retired ? How many did Dallas win after Staubach ? Then how many with Aikman ? How many did Belicheck win before Brady ? It's a QB league. Always was.

Cowher was a great coach here for 15 yrs. Tons of wins and playoffs. No SB win until he had a top notch QB, named Ben.

Remember that run in 2005-06 winning the whole deal ? No MT, No BA(as OC).

I say I don't like the direction of the team is going. Period. We won the SB last time because of a solid D and Ben.

We won it without this staff recently...we'll win it without them in the future.

I don't like the attitude of the team under this staff. I'll take Cowher and his clear captain of the ship demeanor anyday. For 5 games this team quit on this staff...why is that ? Think about it.

Tomlin and BA can cruise out of here for all I care. They are not horrible...they are not needed either. This organization would be just as successful with another coaching staff. I prefer one that plays "Steeler Ball"


:blah::blah::blah::blah:

Atranox
01-08-2010, 09:45 AM
Tomlin and BA can cruise out of here for all I care. They are not horrible...they are not needed either. This organization would be just as successful with another coaching staff. I prefer one that plays "Steeler Ball"

It's not the stone age anymore. Why play "Steeler Ball" just for the sake of playing "Steeler Ball"? We had the one of the best power running backs in the entire history of the NFL in Jerome Bettis, and yet we didn't win a single Super Bowl with our power running game. We finally won it when Bettis was no longer the starter.

Power running may win you regular season games, and it may provide consistency, but there is absolutely no evidence that it wins you championships. If it did, then we would have a hell of a lot more than 6 Lombardi's right now.

magoo
01-08-2010, 09:47 AM
Wow... Truth be told the defense allowed 324 points compared to 223 in 08... --that's up 101 points!

The offense scored 368 compared to 347 in 08... --that's up 21 points!

So lemmee see here the defense gives up a bit more than 6 ppg while the O is up about 1 ppg. Some are calling for the head of Arians head. I have heard no mention of LeBeau being led to the chopping block.

Steelers>NFL
01-08-2010, 09:48 AM
only abouy 1000 whats a few more gonna hurt:rolleyes:
It is/will be a long off-season. So this can be expected.

Bobby_Walden
01-08-2010, 09:58 AM
:blah::blah::blah::blah:

Thanks. Appreciate your input.

Rick5895
01-08-2010, 10:12 AM
3 phases of the game cost us a various points of the season, ST,. red zone o was awful down the stretch, poor secondary play.
Our time of possession of the ball was 3rd in the NFL.
In our our 7 losses we scored 6 against Clevleland, 12 against Cinci, 17 against Chi, 17 against Balt. I will give you this HTG, if we score 20 we should win, but 17 or less is not acceptable. All 3 phases are equally to blame for our non playoff season, not just 1.
As a matter of fact, I even think the O coast us vs Cinci when we lost 23-20. Sweed dropped TD and Ben throws a pic 6, a turn around of 14 points. We can all argue against 1 or the other. Can't we all agree at some point in this season and during just about every loss, all three phases of the game crapped out and contributed to the losses.

stb_steeler
01-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Or Bush...this could still conceivable end up ALL being blamed on Bush. Or Cheney.

I'll go with that......:rofl:

Indo
01-08-2010, 01:47 PM
Or Bush...this could still conceivable end up ALL being blamed on Bush. Or Cheney.

Or Global Warming....oops!...Climate Change

Too damn much Carbon Dioxide in the Red Zone!

Florida_Steelers_Fan
01-08-2010, 02:09 PM
the end zones are biased...

Vincent
01-08-2010, 02:11 PM
the end zones are biased...

Clearly.

SteelCityMom
01-08-2010, 02:13 PM
As soon as you express concern about BA and the lack of "Steeler Football" there is no shortage of those who scream "We got like a billion yards...we had all kinds of players with huge stats..." blah, blah, blah...

And we also didn't score many points. I thought that was the entire point. To score.

Interesting that this debate is really widespread in Steeler Nation.
Very big topic.

A big part of the defense of BA is the "We won the superbowl with him..."
Well, so what, we won it 2 yrs, before without him as OC.
Same for MT,,,we won it without him too.

The real reason we won it both of those times was a man named Ben.
The NFL is a QB league. How many Superbowls did Shanahan win after Elway retired ? How many did Dallas win after Staubach ? Then how many with Aikman ? How many did Belicheck win before Brady ? It's a QB league. Always was.

Cowher was a great coach here for 15 yrs. Tons of wins and playoffs. No SB win until he had a top notch QB, named Ben.

Remember that run in 2005-06 winning the whole deal ? No MT, No BA(as OC).

I say I don't like the direction of the team is going. Period. We won the SB last time because of a solid D and Ben.

We won it without this staff recently...we'll win it without them in the future.

I don't like the attitude of the team under this staff. I'll take Cowher and his clear captain of the ship demeanor anyday. For 5 games this team quit on this staff...why is that ? Think about it.

Tomlin and BA can cruise out of here for all I care. They are not horrible...they are not needed either. This organization would be just as successful with another coaching staff. I prefer one that plays "Steeler Ball"

Good god man...this wasn't even a losing season and you're already ready to run Tomlin out of town and compare his short career to Cowhers? You do realize that Cowher had losing seasons right? 3 in a row at one point actually...and the Rooneys didn't fire him. So far Tomlin has practically the same record that Cowher did in his first three years.

Enough with these knee jerk reactions already...Tomlin was never in danger of losing his job and it would take a heck of a lot more than a 9-7 season to put him in danger. As far as BA goes, I think the only reason I wanted him to go was so people would stop bitching constantly.

JEFF4i
01-08-2010, 02:13 PM
Nah nah, that's not what happens at all guys.

The Liberal Media is misconstruing the truth, in fact, we won the 2010 Superbowl title already, but those hippies want an underdog like the Jets to win.

SMR
01-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Good god man...this wasn't even a losing season and you're already ready to run Tomlin out of town and compare his short career to Cowhers? You do realize that Cowher had losing seasons right? 3 in a row at one point actually...and the Rooneys didn't fire him. So far Tomlin has practically the same record that Cowher did in his first three years.

Enough with these knee jerk reactions already...Tomlin was never in danger of losing his job and it would take a heck of a lot more than a 9-7 season to put him in danger. As far as BA goes, I think the only reason I wanted him to go was so people would stop bitching constantly.

EXACTLY!!

:tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04: :tt04:

Bobby_Walden
01-08-2010, 04:27 PM
Good god man...this wasn't even a losing season and you're already ready to run Tomlin out of town and compare his short career to Cowhers? You do realize that Cowher had losing seasons right? 3 in a row at one point actually...and the Rooneys didn't fire him. So far Tomlin has practically the same record that Cowher did in his first three years.

Enough with these knee jerk reactions already...Tomlin was never in danger of losing his job and it would take a heck of a lot more than a 9-7 season to put him in danger. As far as BA goes, I think the only reason I wanted him to go was so people would stop bitching constantly.


I'm trying to figure out what the heck you are talking about.

1) Tried to point out Cowher only won a SB AFTER Ben arrived.
2) Knee jerk ? I simply don't like this staff.
3) Who said MT was going to lose his job ?
4) Would you be happier if people just stopped posting thngs you disagree with ?

SteelCityMom
01-08-2010, 05:45 PM
I'm trying to figure out what the heck you are talking about.

1) Tried to point out Cowher only won a SB AFTER Ben arrived.
2) Knee jerk ? I simply don't like this staff.
3) Who said MT was going to lose his job ?
4) Would you be happier if people just stopped posting thngs you disagree with ?

1) I know you pointed out that Cowher only won a SB after Ben arrived. You did in a way compare their two careers.

I'll take Cowher and his clear captain of the ship demeanor anyday. For 5 games this team quit on this staff...why is that ? Think about it.

I merely pointed out that you seem to have selective memory of Cowhers overall career and the fact that he's had far worse seasons than Tomlin has yet to have.

2) It's a knee jerk reaction to want to run Tomlin out of town already. Did you want Cowher gone after his first 9-7 season as well (which was within his first 3 years...his second I believe).

3) No one said he was going to...you insinuated that you would prefer it if he did.

4) I don't care if people post things I agree with or not...but it's not going to stop me from posting my own opinion on the matter. Sorry if you have a problem with that. It's also gotten past the point of ridiculous with all the BA bashing threads here. We all get it, he's not popular...even I don't like him very much...but enough is freaking enough already. I really do know it's pointless to complain about the complaining of the BA threads though, and I try not to do it often, there will just be 5-10 more threads on the subject tomorrow and the next day and the next day and the next day...:banging:

MasterOfPuppets
01-08-2010, 07:21 PM
. How many Superbowls did Shanahan win after Elway retired ?

"
how many did elway win before clinton portis and a solid running game showed up ? they didn't win on elways arm alone....:noidea:

MACH1
01-08-2010, 07:26 PM
how many did elway win before clinton portis and a solid running game showed up ? they didn't win on elways arm alone....:noidea:

pssst...Terrell Davis.

ytsan2q
01-09-2010, 04:26 PM
I guess he didn't see Ben play in that 06 Super Bowl.

Rockonsteel
01-09-2010, 05:27 PM
3 phases of the game cost us a various points of the season, ST,. red zone o was awful down the stretch, poor secondary play.
Our time of possession of the ball was 3rd in the NFL.
In our our 7 losses we scored 6 against Clevleland, 12 against Cinci, 17 against Chi, 17 against Balt. I will give you this HTG, if we score 20 we should win, but 17 or less is not acceptable. All 3 phases are equally to blame for our non playoff season, not just 1.
As a matter of fact, I even think the O coast us vs Cinci when we lost 23-20. Sweed dropped TD and Ben throws a pic 6, a turn around of 14 points. We can all argue against 1 or the other. Can't we all agree at some point in this season and during just about every loss, all three phases of the game crapped out and contributed to the losses.

I noticed nobody responded to this most excellent post. You hit the nail right on the head. And, everybody keeps ignoring the injury factor. How many key players did the offense lose this season? We know the answer for the defense. The best two. Their best player against the run. And the best player against the pass. Losing one or the other weakens the defense significantly, losing both can all but cripple it. Well, it didn't cripple it, but they walked with a severe limp the whole season. They played well for three quarters for the most part, but we all know the 4th quarter chronicles. The offense pretty much, for the most had all their guns all season, and often misfired in the red zone far too often. The defense had their shortcomings for sure. Special teams were a liability the whole season, but, the inconsistency of the offense contributed just as much to the train wreck the was the 2009 season.


Rockon

tyler289
01-09-2010, 06:31 PM
http://i33.tinypic.com/3313z3a.gif

smokin3000gt
01-09-2010, 07:17 PM
Don't we already have threads covering this topic?
Yes and I think Bobby W. started all of 'em.


As soon as you express concern about BA and the lack of "Steeler Football" there is no shortage of those who scream "We got like a billion yards...we had all kinds of players with huge stats..." blah, blah, blah...

And we also didn't score many points. I thought that was the entire point. To score.

Interesting that this debate is really widespread in Steeler Nation.
Very big topic.

A big part of the defense of BA is the "We won the superbowl with him..."
Well, so what, we won it 2 yrs, before without him as OC.
Same for MT,,,we won it without him too.

The real reason we won it both of those times was a man named Ben.
The NFL is a QB league. How many Superbowls did Shanahan win after Elway retired ? How many did Dallas win after Staubach ? Then how many with Aikman ? How many did Belicheck win before Brady ? It's a QB league. Always was.

Cowher was a great coach here for 15 yrs. Tons of wins and playoffs. No SB win until he had a top notch QB, named Ben.

Remember that run in 2005-06 winning the whole deal ? No MT, No BA(as OC).

I say I don't like the direction of the team is going. Period. We won the SB last time because of a solid D and Ben.

We won it without this staff recently...we'll win it without them in the future.

I don't like the attitude of the team under this staff. I'll take Cowher and his clear captain of the ship demeanor anyday. For 5 games this team quit on this staff...why is that ? Think about it.

Tomlin and BA can cruise out of here for all I care. They are not horrible...they are not needed either. This organization would be just as successful with another coaching staff. I prefer one that plays "Steeler Ball"

Dude, what's with all the BA threads? We get it that you don't agree with the coaches/owners. We know you don't like him. Time to get over it. The FO doesn't hire/fire depending on how you like the direction of the team.

We should fire Tomlin after one mediocre season? Get real..

MasterOfPuppets
01-09-2010, 07:30 PM
pssst...Terrell Davis.
i stand corrected...:hatsoff: ...but anywho...my point was they didn't win until they balanced out the running / passing game.

HometownGal
01-09-2010, 08:50 PM
As far as BA goes, I think the only reason I wanted him to go was so people would stop bitching constantly.

Bwa ha ha ha!!! :toofunny:

On second thought - I think I like the end result much better. :chuckle: :thumbsup:

7SteelGal43
01-09-2010, 09:09 PM
Cowher was a great coach here for 15 yrs. Tons of wins and playoffs. No SB win until he had a top notch QB, named Ben.
"



Just imagine what the jaw coulda done ? Anyway, this is the Tomlin era, and personally, I like it.

7SteelGal43
01-09-2010, 09:15 PM
Or Bush...this could still conceivable end up ALL being blamed on Bush. Or Cheney.






W T F ?

steelerdude15
01-09-2010, 11:45 PM
When it comes to Mike Tomlin and BA, I'm gonna say this... I like Tomlin, I think he fits this team perfectly. I mean lets look at the seasons 2007, 10-6, 2008, 12-4 with a super bowl win, and 9-7 this year. In his first three years, he had winning season, each year. That's quite impressive. I will hope for this though that he learns from this past year that it's HIS team now, starting now. As far as I'm concerned, our season for 2010 started the day after final regular season games. I hope he brings more fire to it and has complete control over that locker room... Now to BA, I'm not very big on him and I have been questioning the offensive play calling all season. I honestly feel it's time to let BA go. I don't agree with the third and ones and they're in shotgun, with five wide receivers. Another thing is that when things don't go right, people blame the quarterback and the head coach right off the bat, I mean look at Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb in Philly. There were many factors into why the Steelers didn't have a great season and hopefully the most important things will be fixed. I will end this by saying this, it doesn't matter if they go 16-0 or 0-16, I'll be a Steelers fan until the day I die and have been with this team through thick and thin and always will be! :tt02: