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mesaSteeler
01-10-2010, 09:10 PM
Bradshaw remains the best

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/localsports/1-10-Steigerwald

I will still take Terry Bradshaw. Believe it or not, we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of the Steelers' drafting of Bradhsaw. He was the first player picked in the NFL draft on Jan. 27 , 1970.

Ben Roethlisberger just completed a season in which he became the first Steelers' quarterback to throw for more than 4,000 yards and was voted MVP by his teammates.

Roethlisberger has had some spectacular moments in the past year and has made jaw dropping, last-second throws to win games while he was putting up some pretty impressive numbers. Some people have suggested that he's the best quarterback in Steelers' history.

Not yet.

Bradshaw is still the best quarterback I've ever seen. I know that you're not allowed to say he's better than Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas or 10 or 12 other quarterbacks. But I still have never seen anyone who could throw a football the way that he could.

If you get into a statistics war, Bradshaw gets blown away by Marino and Montana, but he also gets blown away by Neil O'Donnell and no one with a brain would suggest that O'Donnell deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with Bradshaw.

Forty years ago, Bradshaw was designated the savior of a team that had just finished 1-13, had five winning seasons in the previous 29 years and was moving into a new stadium.

Roethlisberger was brought in to a team that was two years removed from playing in the AFC Championship and was expected to spend at least a season watching Tommy Maddox.

He ended up having the best rookie season ever by an NFL quarterback and won two Super Bowls in his first five seasons.

Bradshaw completed 38 percent of his passes his rookie year. He made up for that by throwing six touchdown passes and 24 interceptions. He never had more touchdown passes than interceptions in his first five seasons and in his eighth season he had 17 touchdown passes and 19 interceptions.

But forget the stats. He was playing a different game because bump-and-run coverage was permitted.

There was a telling moment during what would be the Steelers' winning touchdown drive against the Packers a couple of weeks ago. Roethlisberger was intercepted but the play was called back because of an illegal contact penalty.

Hines Ward had been knocked down about seven yards into his route. The replay showed Ward looking almost indignant as he was getting up. He couldn't believe that somebody would knock him down while he was trying to run his route. There was no such thing as an illegal contact penalty when Bradshaw was throwing all of those interceptions in the early to mid 1970s.

Roethlisberger's greatness comes from his amazing ability to keep plays alive with his scrambling. You've seen him pump faking and directing traffic while he moves around in the pocket.

What he sees downfield is worlds away from what he would have seen in 1975. He sees receivers running around trying to separate themselves from defenders who are not allowed to lay a finger on them. If he can stay upright long enough, there is no way a defender can prevent a receiver from getting open.

When Bradshaw scrambled, he saw his receivers being knocked off their routes and off their feet no matter how far downfield they were. Bradshaw was a great scrambler but his scrambles usually ended with a run because it was unlikely that any of his receivers could get free in time.

I was sitting in a sixth level, end zone seat at Three Rivers Stadium in 1972. The Steelers were playing the Cleveland Browns and they were backed up to the goal line directly below me. Bradshaw dropped back into the end zone and threw a pass to Ron Shanklin, who was running a deep post.

Shanklin caught the ball at the 50, just as my jaw was dropping from the throw. The pass went 55 yards in the air and there was no arc. It came in helmet high, just out of the reach of Browns safety Erich Barnes. I had never seen a football thrown like that.

Neither had Barnes, an All-Pro, who was in his 13th season.

He was quoted in the Cleveland Plain Dealer the next day as saying that he had never seen anything like it. He had Shanklin covered and was looking up for the ball and couldn't believe that it came in just under his nose.

CBS has been running a promotional spot during their telecasts celebrating their 50 years of televising NFL games and one of the highlights is Lynn Swann's leaping, bobbling catch against the Cowboys in Super Bowl X. You've seen it a million times, but you've probably always focused on the catch.

The next time you see it, watch Bradshaw. He takes a short drop and ****s the ball by his ear and flicks it 50 yards in the air on a rope. I actually made a point last week to hit rewind on my DVR so I could watch it again.

Bradshaw never lined up in the shotgun formation and he never had more than three wide receivers on the field with him at one time. He got a chance to play for a few years with the relaxed rules but he had to learn to play in a system that made it impossible even for Hall of Fame quarterbacks to complete 55 percent of their passes.

He could run, too. Go to you tube.com and search for Terry Bradshaw highlights. He starts running about two minutes and 30 seconds in.

Oh, by the way. He still has twice as many Super Bowl rings.

John Steigerwald writes a Sunday column for the Observer-Reporter

Neil-Still-Rules-14
01-10-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't know. I think Ben has really gotten the upper hand. And he has tons of upside.

SMR
01-10-2010, 10:06 PM
I'd have to say Roethlisberger is my choice as well.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
01-10-2010, 10:07 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

LambertIsGod58
01-10-2010, 10:18 PM
Two entirely different eras. With the difference in rules and athletes, I don't think it would be fair to compare them. IMO, Ben has until 2014 to get two more rings to say that he's as good or better. I do know that Bradshaw had the better deep ball hands down. Maybe the best of all time!

Steelers17
01-10-2010, 10:21 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

Terry Bradshaw wears 4-SB rings, is in the HOF on his first ballot, and at one time held the national high school javelin distance record of 245 feet! He launched long bombs with cruise missile accuracy. Additionally, he was one tough SOB and never missed games unless he was a hospital admission!

C'mon Man!

wootawnee
01-10-2010, 10:49 PM
Forget about it......No quaterback ever had the power Brad had......Not even close....He had the best arm ever in the history of football.......Ben cant throw over 55 yards......Bradshaw could throw 80 yards without taking a step.......

This article is spot on........Back then there was no pansy whining........

Ben got his niche going and he is a great qb.......But he doesnt have near the physical tools Brad had..........

pepsyman1
01-10-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm a huge fan of Big Ben, but I grew up watching Bradshaw and like the writer of the article, I haven't seen ANYONE who throws the ball like Terry Bradshaw did. It truly is a different game than it was back then. You look at some of the other QB's of that era and none of them have stats like todays QB's. Terry's QB rating was just over 70, Ken Stabler & Joe Theisman were a little over 75 and Captain Comeback of those days, Roger Staubach was at a gaudy 80! Based on those numbers, none of those guys would be able to start on a contending team these days. But Bradshaw called all his own plays and played in a game where the wide receivers were harassed just about every moment down the field. God forbid if Swann or Stallworth got loose and got a step behind a cornerback. NO ONE threw a deep ball like Bradshaw did. If you don't think so, look up "Terry Bradshaw" on youtube and watch the first highlight video that comes up. It's AMAZING the shear number of deep 40-50 plays Bradshaw completed with seemingly no effort. Off the wrong foot, on the run, no room to step up, whatever...absolute ROPES. Rarely do you see the ball thrown "up" at all. Even the one in Superbowl X when he got knocked out on the play. That ball went about 65 yards in the air.. All I know is that when the Steelers needed to score to win games, Bradshaw always pulled it off....4-0 in the Superbowl, stats be damned.

mesaSteeler
01-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Forget about it......No quaterback ever had the power Brad had......Not even close....He had the best arm ever in the history of football.......Ben cant throw over 55 yards......Bradshaw could throw 80 yards without taking a step.......

This article is spot on........Back then there was no pansy whining........

Ben got his niche going and he is a great qb.......But he doesnt have near the physical tools Brad had..........

Drama Queen Ben doesn't have anywhere near the toughness that Bradshaw had either. I'll never forget Super Bowl 10 when Bradshaw was knocked unconscious as he let loose a 64 yard bomb to Lynn Swan to win the game.

steelerjim58
01-10-2010, 11:07 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! None of my business of course, but how old are you?

pepsyman1
01-10-2010, 11:10 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

Yeah really? 4 Superbowl wins and a HOF career and BEN is the first franchise QB we've had? Yeah right.

Dino 6 Rings
01-10-2010, 11:13 PM
Bradshaw 4 Rings, 2 SuperBowl MVPS and 1978 MVP.

Ben 2 Rings.

Though Shall Not talk bad against Terry Bradshaw. EVER!

SDemt23
01-10-2010, 11:29 PM
yeah Ben wins this battle, the only thing Bradshaw has over ben is 2 more rings but look how young Ben is with 2 rings....he has 10 years or probably more to get 2 or more rings.......that's very impressive if u ask me :)

zulater
01-10-2010, 11:39 PM
Two entirely different eras. With the difference in rules and athletes, I don't think it would be fair to compare them. IMO, Ben has until 2014 to get two more rings to say that he's as good or better. I do know that Bradshaw had the better deep ball hands down. Maybe the best of all time!

Ditto. :thumbsup:

fansince'76
01-10-2010, 11:40 PM
I'd still take Bradshaw. Better deep ball and having him in the huddle was like having an OC on the field.

zulater
01-10-2010, 11:47 PM
Drama Queen Ben doesn't have anywhere near the toughness that Bradshaw had either. I'll never forget Super Bowl 10 when Bradshaw was knocked unconscious as he let loose a 64 yard bomb to Lynn Swan to win the game.

Why do we have to knock one to elevate the other? And by the way Bradhsaw was also known for the occasional theatrics. That's not a knock on his toughness but TB could look as if he was virtually ambulatory one moment, then 3 plays later he's scrambling for a first down. :chuckle:

I loved Terry. Besides being a great qb, and throwing one of the best deep balls ever, Terry might have been the most dangerous open field runner to play the position until Randall Cunningham showed up.

stb_steeler
01-11-2010, 12:20 AM
Some of you may be to young to remember seeing Bradshaw playing but, its clear he he has the big arm over Ben, for now. Watch some of the old highlights of him slinging it to Johny Stallworth in the Rams SB. I bet that was thrown 60 yards up the middle right on target. Do yourselves a favore and buy the Steelers 6 SB DVD set. You'll see how Terry studied the game and why he became so good at it. Now im not taking anything away from Ben but, he's not quit at that level yet. IMO

MattsMe
01-11-2010, 12:37 AM
Bradshaw. One of the greatest big game quarterbacks who ever lived.

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_691_The_Super_Bowl_Legends.html

pepsyman1
01-11-2010, 12:46 AM
Bradshaw. One of the greatest big game quarterbacks who ever lived.

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_691_The_Super_Bowl_Legends.html

Great link! He was always at his best on the biggest stage.

OneForTheToe
01-11-2010, 01:55 AM
I'd still take Bradshaw. Better deep ball and having him in the huddle was like having an OC on the field.

I think Terry might have mentioned a few (or 1000) times that he called his own plays. Ben is on his way, but Brad is still on top by virtue of the 4 SB rings, two SB MVPs and his big game play (although Ben might just surpass him here some day).

lionslicer
01-11-2010, 03:52 AM
Some of you may be to young to remember seeing Bradshaw playing but, its clear he he has the big arm over Ben, for now. Watch some of the old highlights of him slinging it to Johny Stallworth in the Rams SB. I bet that was thrown 60 yards up the middle right on target. Do yourselves a favore and buy the Steelers 6 SB DVD set. You'll see how Terry studied the game and why he became so good at it. Now im not taking anything away from Ben but, he's not quit at that level yet. IMO

Ben actually has been marked to throw the ball around 70 yards down the field, he just isn't accurate when he does it.

Bradshaw knows the game of football, he's also great at the deep ball, but even himself admitted he doesn't know coverages too well. In todays game he'd be destroyed. But back in the 70's, and probably 80's when coverages were just man to man 2 safties back, he was able to thrive, especially when he had a run game.

pepsyman1
01-11-2010, 04:22 AM
Ben actually has been marked to throw the ball around 70 yards down the field, he just isn't accurate when he does it.

Bradshaw knows the game of football, he's also great at the deep ball, but even himself admitted he doesn't know coverages too well. In todays game he'd be destroyed. But back in the 70's, and probably 80's when coverages were just man to man 2 safties back, he was able to thrive, especially when he had a run game.

Zone coverages, although much more the norm these days, existed and were widely used even back in Terry's day. Everything goes in cycles (the Wildcat isn't new..it's just a new name...lol) Bradshaw used to bank on zone coverage quite often and exploited it by running Swan, Stallworth and Bennie Cunningham on deep-in routes...over the linebacks and in front of the secondary which used to back far off the Steelers wideouts once the Steelers offense had opened up in the late 70's. Both wideouts' career average is over 16 yards per catch (Jerry Rice is 14.8) and both had years where they averaged close to 20 per catch. Don't worry, Bradshaw would adapt to todays game without issue.

As for Ben, if he can throw the ball 70 yards I'd be very surprised. He is usually using quite a windup to throw it 50-55 on these long plays to Wallace and still underthrowing it. Terry used to make throws like that almost standing flat footed. I think when all is said and done Ben will accomplish as much as Terry has, but for now....I'll take Bradshaw.

lionslicer
01-11-2010, 05:59 AM
Zone coverages, although much more the norm these days, existed and were widely used even back in Terry's day. Everything goes in cycles (the Wildcat isn't new..it's just a new name...lol) Bradshaw used to bank on zone coverage quite often and exploited it by running Swan, Stallworth and Bennie Cunningham on deep-in routes...over the linebacks and in front of the secondary which used to back far off the Steelers wideouts once the Steelers offense had opened up in the late 70's. Both wideouts' career average is over 16 yards per catch (Jerry Rice is 14.8) and both had years where they averaged close to 20 per catch. Don't worry, Bradshaw would adapt to todays game without issue.

As for Ben, if he can throw the ball 70 yards I'd be very surprised. He is usually using quite a windup to throw it 50-55 on these long plays to Wallace and still underthrowing it. Terry used to make throws like that almost standing flat footed. I think when all is said and done Ben will accomplish as much as Terry has, but for now....I'll take Bradshaw.

Ben threw it 66 in a contest in like 2007? maybe 2005 with a bum shoulder at the end of the season, I don't remember the exact year, but i do remember the contest was on NFL network... I heard he had a 70 yard bomb in college, so I'm sure he could has easily launched it over 70. But he has taken a lot of hits since then, it could have taken away from his deep ball.

And I just go by what Bradshaw said in an interview I saw. He said he never understood coverages, and he just went out there and played and threw the ball when his recievers were open. His career completion percentage was 51% He threw an average of 20 interceptions a year. He also played with a tremendous run game which every team schemed to stop, it gave him the ability to play action, even if he didn't use play action, the defense was still looking for the run and he could find huge openings on defenses. Not saying he's a bad quarterback, he was great, but I just don't believe he would have lasted against the defenses of todays game. Thats my opinion, and it wont change.

And for the record I like Terry Bradshaw more than Ben. I'm not defending Ben because I like him or something, I actually despise him as a person and don't respect some of the plays he makes. Its just my opinion Terry is a better quarterback for the 70's, not the 2000's.

Vincent
01-11-2010, 10:27 AM
I'm a huge fan of Big Ben, but I grew up watching Bradshaw and like the writer of the article, I haven't seen ANYONE who throws the ball like Terry Bradshaw did. It truly is a different game than it was back then. You look at some of the other QB's of that era and none of them have stats like todays QB's. Terry's QB rating was just over 70, Ken Stabler & Joe Theisman were a little over 75 and Captain Comeback of those days, Roger Staubach was at a gaudy 80! Based on those numbers, none of those guys would be able to start on a contending team these days. But Bradshaw called all his own plays and played in a game where the wide receivers were harassed just about every moment down the field. God forbid if Swann or Stallworth got loose and got a step behind a cornerback. NO ONE threw a deep ball like Bradshaw did. If you don't think so, look up "Terry Bradshaw" on youtube and watch the first highlight video that comes up. It's AMAZING the shear number of deep 40-50 plays Bradshaw completed with seemingly no effort. Off the wrong foot, on the run, no room to step up, whatever...absolute ROPES. Rarely do you see the ball thrown "up" at all. Even the one in Superbowl X when he got knocked out on the play. That ball went about 65 yards in the air.. All I know is that when the Steelers needed to score to win games, Bradshaw always pulled it off....4-0 in the Superbowl, stats be damned.

Same here. His stats are for @#$%. But there was no other QB I would have ever wanted at that time. Money. Period. Freekin howitzer for an arm. I used to just laugh, it was so ridiculous.

Another key differentiator is that Brad called his own plays.

Oh, and 2X SB MVP for good reasons. I don't think we'll ever see another QB win 4 in 6 again.

Ben is a great QB and with development might become statistically "the best ever" as is his stated goal. Again, there's no other QB I would want. But we see Wallace having to wait for passes and those passes are high arcs just to reach him. Brad would have hit him on a rope just as he reached to grab it.

Different animals. Different time.

As an amusing side, some media dolt asked Brad if he thought Ben is more mature at the same point in his career. Typical Brad with the twinkle in his eye - "He's more mature than I am now".

Neil-Still-Rules-14
01-11-2010, 11:42 AM
Yeah really? 4 Superbowl wins and a HOF career and BEN is the first franchise QB we've had? Yeah right.

Would everyone quit it with the 4 super bowl wins? It is a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT to win the Super Bowl. A franchise QB is a guy your team can't function without. Ask Mike Kruzcek how the Steelers did without TB.

SteelerEmpire
01-11-2010, 12:08 PM
I think Ben has the chance of being the only QB in history to get 5 SB rings... ( a personal goal that he's stated more than once) two down, three to go Ben... But he needs to start on # 3 asap....

Dino 6 Rings
01-11-2010, 12:16 PM
Would everyone quit it with the 4 super bowl wins? It is a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT to win the Super Bowl. A franchise QB is a guy your team can't function without. Ask Mike Kruzcek how the Steelers did without TB.

no, I will NOT stop with the Super Bowl Wins.

Montana is considered the best of all time? Why? 4 Effing Rings is why. Not because of his regular season stats, not because of his team's running game or that great defense that the 9ers had in the 80s. Its all about the Rings.

Elway made his carreer totally legitimate with 2 SB wins. Even with Davis running the ball, Elway became "legendary" when he Beat Favre Head to Head in the Super Bowl.

Marino, Best QB to NEVER WIN the Super Bowl.

Kelly, one of the greatest QBs of the 90s gets ZERO love why? 4 Losses in a row.

The Big Game, Big Stage Freaking Matter.

And Terry Bradshaw is one of the Greatest Big Game QBs of all time.

AT this Point, Ben can hold Terry's Coffee Mug. But he can't drink from the cup yet.

steelerjim58
01-11-2010, 12:21 PM
Would everyone quit it with the 4 super bowl wins? It is a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT to win the Super Bowl. A franchise QB is a guy your team can't function without. Ask Mike Kruzcek how the Steelers did without TB.

Amen to that. I've never understood why when discussing qbs that how many rings they have is used as a deciding factor as to who is the best.

Dino 6 Rings
01-11-2010, 12:41 PM
Amen to that. I've never understood why when discussing qbs that how many rings they have is used as a deciding factor as to who is the best.

Because unless Michael Jordan wins 6 Freaking Titles NO ONE considers him the greatest of all times.

Bottom line, champions Win Championships, and the Greatest Players of all Time are Champions.

Montana
Jordan
Gretzky
Tyson

All Champions and considered some of the greatest of all time in their sports.

Titles Freaking Matter and if you say otherwise, you are just doing so in order to bolster the case for whoever you are arguing for ignoring the Glaring Fact that

Titles
Freaking
Matter

T.Richardson
01-11-2010, 02:39 PM
I find it funny how people now respect Bradshaw... after what Bradshaw went through with Steeler fans.

T.Richardson
01-11-2010, 02:41 PM
Because unless Michael Jordan wins 6 Freaking Titles NO ONE considers him the greatest of all times.

Bottom line, champions Win Championships, and the Greatest Players of all Time are Champions.

Montana
Jordan
Gretzky
Tyson

All Champions and considered some of the greatest of all time in their sports.

Titles Freaking Matter and if you say otherwise, you are just doing so in order to bolster the case for whoever you are arguing for ignoring the Glaring Fact that

Titles
Freaking
Matter

Titles do matter..but there are some pretty damn good players that had a crappy team, and couldnt get a ring. Barry Sanders comes to mind. He WAS the Lions offense... too bad he couldnt get a ring.

supa_fly_steeler
01-11-2010, 02:55 PM
ben roethlisberger is the first true franchise qb of the steelers and better than bradshaw but in bradshaw era that team was filled in now hall of famers and clearly probably the best dynasty ever.

put the bradshaw on the oilers or something dunno if they would have the same results but he was a big winner he may of thrown more ints than td's or w/e but man when he needed to win games he did.

vrabinec
01-11-2010, 03:01 PM
Once Bradshaw figured out the game, he was the best in the NFL. For that six or seven year stretch, I can honestly say he was the best passer, can anyone say that about Ben? Don't get me wrong, I love Ben, but I wouldn't even call him one of the top 5 passers today, let alone one of the top 5 of all time, which I believe Bradshaw was.

lionslicer
01-11-2010, 03:10 PM
ben roethlisberger is the first true franchise qb of the steelers and better than bradshaw but in bradshaw era that team was filled in now hall of famers and clearly probably the best dynasty ever.

put the bradshaw on the oilers or something dunno if they would have the same results but he was a big winner he may of thrown more ints than td's or w/e but man when he needed to win games he did.

You're right, I know people say Bradshaw was a franchise quarterback, but he wasn't drafted as one. He was origionally a bust, he was terrible. Through his entire career, he was benched by Chuck Noll when he had a bad game, or a couple bad games in a row. A franchise quarterback like Ben or Manning don't get benched no matter how bad they are playing. The team sinks with its captain. Bradshaw was a good quarterback playing for the Steelers, never officially was a franchise quarterback.

vrabinec
01-11-2010, 03:21 PM
You're right, I know people say Bradshaw was a franchise quarterback, but he wasn't drafted as one. He was origionally a bust, he was terrible. Through his entire career, he was benched by Chuck Noll when he had a bad game, or a couple bad games in a row. A franchise quarterback like Ben or Manning don't get benched no matter how bad they are playing. The team sinks with its captain. Bradshaw was a good quarterback playing for the Steelers, never officially was a franchise quarterback.

Bradshaw was benched because, at the time, quarterbacks called their own plays. So a QB was not only the QB, he was the offensive coordinator, and Bradshaw was a little slow in figuring out what plays to run, because he came from an un-sophisticated passing attack in college. If you look at the QB's coming into the league today, the Ben's and the Flaccos and the Ryans and the Sanchez's, they can be successful early on because they don't have to call thier own plays, they get them radioed into their helmet from someone who's been an offensive coordinator for years.

Look at the early careers of the passers of the time, guys like Stabler, Starr, Staubach, they didn't start until they were in the league four or five years. Bradshaw was thrown into the fray, and he didn't even have as good of a college coaching experience as those guys did.

pepsyman1
01-11-2010, 03:57 PM
Would everyone quit it with the 4 super bowl wins? It is a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT to win the Super Bowl. A franchise QB is a guy your team can't function without. Ask Mike Kruzcek how the Steelers did without TB.

Um....I think you just made my argument for me..lol Without Terry Bradshaw, MAYBE we win Superbowl IX and that would have been all she wrote. MIKE KRUZCEK is your argument?

Kruzcek's entire career can be summed up as he handed the ball off for 6 games in 1976. He retired from football without ever throwing a touchdown pass.

AllD
01-11-2010, 04:19 PM
BB had a better rookie season by far, but Brad is still better at this time. BB has not yet finished his career so it is an unfair comparison, but if you want to compared career tracks, BB has the advantage.

BB could only be considered better if he at least matches Brad in SBs and just blows out the statisics.

FYI, Joe Greene is probably the greatest Steeler of all time.

wootawnee
01-11-2010, 05:12 PM
Brad put his finger on the end of the ball........

http://www.denverautographs.com/images/BRADSHAW16X20.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AeEq2KTB8Pw/R56G9GXa7FI/AAAAAAAAAtU/UwIL53SpCFU/s320/Terry%2BBradshaw.jpg

http://www.ultimatemanroom.com/store/images/01500_bradphs008000.474.99.jpg

SH-Rock
01-11-2010, 05:23 PM
If ben can start throwing more deep like 50+ yards a game then I'll reconsider and ben loves getting sacked

4xSBChamps
01-11-2010, 06:07 PM
... the people who think that Roethlisberger is already a better QB than Bradshaw... I'm not-saying 'might-be, in the future, maybe, sometime', but those who say that the '09 Roethlisberger is better than Bradshaw, need to seek help... IMMEDIATELY!

Had the term 'franchise QB' been coined 35 years ago, does anybody with 2 functioning brain-cells think that Bradshaw wouldn't have been labeled one?
WHO drafts a QB #1 over-all, and doesn't think he'll be a key piece of the franchise for the next dozen years?

... does anybody who saw Bradshaw play (those who can't pee Yellow yet don't qualify) think he wouldn't have prospered under today's rules, where defenders can't play bump-and-run?

besides calling his-own plays, and helping Noll devise strategy (remember, Noll was the QB Coach), Bradshaw had a great killer-insticnt with his play-calling, often going-for (and ripping-out) the jugular of an opponent after they gained some momentum, or committed a turnover:
I had a pair of Steelers from the '74 team say that Bradshaw was calling formations-only in the huddle, then audibles at the line of scrimmage in SB 9, so he may-not have 'understood-coverages', but he knew the game.

Bradshaw broke tackles & prolonged plays like Roethlisberger does, but on a smaller-scale because of the way the game was played (again, if your born-on date is post 1975, you don't know what you are talking about in-regards to Bradshaw's ability):
with today's legalized-holding... I mean 'liberalized pass-blocking rules', OC who enjoy throwing 40-50 passes a game while forgetting the running attack, and defenders not being permitted to molest receivers running downfield, Bradshaw would be raining-down TD passes from beyond the 50 yard-line frequently

think, people... THINK!!!

7SteelGal43
01-13-2010, 11:16 AM
How cool is this...With my ONE THOUSANDTH POST, I get to talk about my favorite NFL Player of all time.......Terry Bradshaw. He was our QB when I started watching the Steelers and when I really got into football. Ah yes, Swann, Stallworth, Harris, Blier, the Steel Curtain..........................

...but I digress. Big Ben vs Terry. Ben is the best thing we've had under center since TB. He's earned the franchise tag. IF the term "franchise player" had been around back then, TB would've earned that tag no doubt. They are similar in my eyes because stat wise, they don't measure up to Marino, Montana, Elway, Favre, Manning.....but they win. They play hard, they play determined, and they win. TB had Swann/Stalworth. Ben has Ward/Holmes, and had Ward/Randle El, and Ward/Burrus. TB had Harris/Blier. Ben had Bettis and now hopefully Mendenhall. I think they both are great QBs surrounded with the right personnel.

Other than that, how can you compare and contrast the two ? As someone pointed out, you're talking about two different era's and different rules now and well, players these days are different.

As far as stats go, while TB and BB may not have gaudy numbers and what not, I'd take either of them over any one QB of any era in the NFL you can name. Is it just because they are Steelers ? Maybe. But, you can't deny they "just win, baby" :tt03:

Bradshaw remains the best indeed. And even if Ben wins 4 or even 5 Superbowls, well, Bradshaw will probably always have the sentimental edge in my book. But I know once Bens career is over, I'll hold him is just as high of esteem and admiration as the one, the only, T B !!!!!! Hell, I already do.

T&B fan
01-13-2010, 12:19 PM
TB wins hands down ...

Indo
01-13-2010, 12:27 PM
... the people who think that Roethlisberger is already a better QB than Bradshaw... I'm not-saying 'might-be, in the future, maybe, sometime', but those who say that the '09 Roethlisberger is better than Bradshaw, need to seek help... IMMEDIATELY!

Had the term 'franchise QB' been coined 35 years ago, does anybody with 2 functioning brain-cells think that Bradshaw wouldn't have been labeled one?
WHO drafts a QB #1 over-all, and doesn't think he'll be a key piece of the franchise for the next dozen years?

... does anybody who saw Bradshaw play (those who can't pee Yellow yet don't qualify) think he wouldn't have prospered under today's rules, where defenders can't play bump-and-run?

besides calling his-own plays, and helping Noll devise strategy (remember, Noll was the QB Coach), Bradshaw had a great killer-insticnt with his play-calling, often going-for (and ripping-out) the jugular of an opponent after they gained some momentum, or committed a turnover:
I had a pair of Steelers from the '74 team say that Bradshaw was calling formations-only in the huddle, then audibles at the line of scrimmage in SB 9, so he may-not have 'understood-coverages', but he knew the game.

Bradshaw broke tackles & prolonged plays like Roethlisberger does, but on a smaller-scale because of the way the game was played (again, if your born-on date is post 1975, you don't know what you are talking about in-regards to Bradshaw's ability):
with today's legalized-holding... I mean 'liberalized pass-blocking rules', OC who enjoy throwing 40-50 passes a game while forgetting the running attack, and defenders not being permitted to molest receivers running downfield, Bradshaw would be raining-down TD passes from beyond the 50 yard-line frequently

think, people... THINK!!!



:thumbsup:

It cannot be said much better than 4X


Bradshaw was an Elite QB...
He absolutely would have been able to adjust to today's game

And he would have KILLED it.

As someone said---for you non-believers---go watch some of the games. That will help you to understand

As Dino said----Champions Win. Period.

Go ask Dan Marino if he would rather have all those BIG stats, or just one measely little ring. The hardware matters.
Would any of you (if you had the God-given talent of a pro QB) rather be the bestest All-Time Passer guy----or have middle-of-the-road stats and a Ring?
I know my answer...

But I digress----
Nothiing against Ben. I love him. And he MAY surpass Brad.
But not yet. Not yet.

JEFF4i
01-13-2010, 01:15 PM
I love Ben to death, he's a supreme talent and someone who I feel, as a complete QB, is top 3 easily in the league.

Being born in 86, I never saw TB play live, but he's a large part as to why I'm a Steelers fan. I remember being under 5, watching TB in his Super-Bowls, and just loving it. So, for now, I gotta go with TB.

California-Steel
01-13-2010, 04:54 PM
Anyone born on the mid to late 70's will not have even seen Bradshaw play. You would have to be born in the 60's like myself. The game is so different that you cannot even compare the game let alone players.

Bradshaw had a better arm, and was more accurate than Ben. The numbers can't be compared to prove this as you could maul a receiver back then, and short of tackling the receiver while the ball was in the air, there were no P.I. calls. Many INT's were the product of tipped balls due to the collisions that took place by DB's and receivers.

Ben would have never found an open receiver and would most likely have been paralyzed back then with how he holds onto the ball. Ben would also have never made any of the bombs TB threw as the ball simply would have never made it far enough, that is if he would have gotten rid of the ball.

Ben is great for the game as it is today, but TB most likely would be great for both eras not just the one he played in.

Young ones of today's era only know what they see today and cannot relate to the game of yesteryear. it's like tring to imagine your parents being teen agers. Really hard to do, understand that what teenagers do today is what your parents did also as a teen, and may have been better at it than you today.

Prok
01-13-2010, 06:19 PM
They're both great. They're both Steelers. I don't wanna get caught up debating which was better til' the end of Ben's career, just to be fair.

Just imagine if we had taken Marino ??

Wow. :tt:

4xSBChamps
01-13-2010, 06:59 PM
Just imagine if we had taken Marino ??


would Chuck Noll had adapted to allowing his QB free-reign, and permit Marino to use his considerable talents?

LukesDad88
01-13-2010, 07:33 PM
I love how everybody's going crazy over Bradshaw in this thread over Ben, when in the 70's over half the city wanted him out of town or on the bench in favor of Hanratty or Gilliam. In fact there are still some Steeler players from the 70's that will make the claim that Gilliam was better than Bradshaw.

Vincent
01-13-2010, 07:34 PM
would Chuck Noll had adapted to allowing his QB free-reign, and permit Marino to use his considerable talents?

CN would have done what he did with Brad. But it would have been a shorter curve. And it would have been several more rings.

Ever wonder what possessed the FO to "pass" on "Danny" and "select" Gabe Rivera? "Gabe @#$%ing Rivera"??!! Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

4xSBChamps
01-13-2010, 07:45 PM
Ever wonder what possessed the FO to "pass" on "Danny" and "select" Gabe Rivera? "Gabe @#$%ing Rivera"??!! Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

as I recall, following Marino's somewhat disappointing senior season at Pitt, there were 'rumors' about his off-field behavior, but those allegations didn't seem to hinder him in Miami

:noidea:

Vincent
01-13-2010, 07:50 PM
as I recall, following Marino's somewhat disappointing senior season at Pitt, there were 'rumors' about his off-field behavior, but those allegations didn't seem to hinder him in Miami

:noidea:

Rumors. The Rooneys watched him at Central Catholic, then Pitt and knew him as Danny. The all American boy next door. With the best release of all time.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/08/05/gallery.marino/gallery1.jpg

This is the picture of someone that there'd be "rumors" about. Right?

4xSBChamps
01-13-2010, 07:56 PM
Rumors. The Rooneys watched him at Central Catholic, then Pitt and knew him as Danny. The all American boy next door. With the best release of all time.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/08/05/gallery.marino/gallery1.jpg

This is the picture of someone that there'd be "rumors" about. Right?

I saw him play a few school-boy games, trudged-up Cardiac Hill to watch him play, had friends who went to Pitt at the time, and through work, knew & spoke with a few of the Steelers at that time:
'I' didn't believe the stories, only repeating what was being said at the time, and yes, he is the 'classic', prototypical QB of our time.

:drink:

Vincent
01-13-2010, 08:00 PM
'I' didn't believe the stories, only repeating what was being said at the time, and yes, he is the 'classic', prototypical QB of our time.[/SIZE][/B]

:drink:

Yeah, I know. Its a damn shame. :mad:

Cheers Brother!!

4xSBChamps
01-13-2010, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I know. Its a damn shame. :mad:

Cheers Brother!!

it coulda been worse..... Dallas coulda drafted him, and he'd have had first Dorsett, then Walker running the ball, with Laundry's willingness to try trickery & finesse

:doh:

Vincent
01-13-2010, 08:17 PM
it coulda been worse..... Dallas coulda drafted him, and he'd have had first Dorsett, then Walker running the ball, with Laundry's willingness to try trickery & finesse

:doh:

Perish the thought. This why we drink 4x. :chuckle:

1207
01-14-2010, 01:41 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

This has got to be the most ludicrous statement in the entire history of the internets. The only thing that could make it any more ludicrous is that it was written by somebody who pimps Neil O'Donnell in their screen name, and avater.

First overall pick of the 1970 NFL draft. 4x Super Bowl Champ, 2x Super Bowl MVP, 1978 NFL MVP, 3x Pro Bowler, elected into the Pro Football HOF in his first year of elegibilty. Yep, no franchise quarterback there.

Hey nothing against Ben, I love Ben. But for some of you to dismiss Bradshaw like he was say... Neil O'Donnell, is just asinine!

For those that point to the statistics, Tommy Maddox put up some big numbers while he was the starting QB. I'm pretty sure he has more 300 yd passing games than Bradshaw, and probably a better QB rating too. I never heard anyone claim that he was better than Bradshaw.

For the Steelers 75th Anniversary Team, I voted for the winner at the QB position. That was Bradshaw. When they vote for the 100th Anniversary Team, Ben will surely be on the team, but don't be suprised if Bradshaw is still listed as the starter, statistics be damned!

vrabinec
01-14-2010, 02:19 PM
I saw him play a few school-boy games, trudged-up Cardiac Hill to watch him play, had friends who went to Pitt at the time, and through work, knew & spoke with a few of the Steelers at that time:
'I' didn't believe the stories, only repeating what was being said at the time, and yes, he is the 'classic', prototypical QB of our time.

:drink:

I was at Pitt the same time he was. That picture takes me back. Too bad he was dabbling in coke, or he could have been a Steeler. By the way, the rumors were true, I saw him with a white mustache at a party once. Can't say if it was habitual or not. Could have ben the only time he tried it for all I know.

Vincent
01-14-2010, 03:14 PM
The only thing that could make it any more ludicrous is that it was written by somebody who pimps Neil O'Donnell in their screen name, and avater.

That O'Donnell fellow. Wasn't he the one that threw SB XXX by tossing 2 picks ("uncharacteristic of Niel O'Donnell", he put it) to the journeyman Brown?

It'd be fun to trace the money that became Niel's $7M signing bonus from the Jets.

But who's bitter?

WH
01-14-2010, 06:13 PM
Bradshaw. He throws a 50 yard pass with what looks like a simple flick of the wrist, and that highlight video on youtube backs that up.

Dino 6 Rings
03-12-2010, 01:08 PM
BUMP!

TERRY BRADSHAW RULES THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T&B fan
03-12-2010, 02:23 PM
BUMP!

TERRY BRADSHAW RULES THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:drink::thumbsup::tt03:

OneForTheToe
03-12-2010, 04:25 PM
BUMP!

TERRY BRADSHAW RULES THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but I heard one time that Terry stole a puppy from a depressed little one-legged girl, who suffered from, scoliosis, exima, tooth decay, psoriasis and hay fever. Oh, and she was also a orphan. I'm not saying it is true, but that's what I heard.

Prok
03-12-2010, 04:29 PM
I always wondered what would have happened had Joe Namath been Steelers QB. I'm guessing the moral police in Pittsburgh would have forced Steelers to trade him ??

Dino 6 Rings
03-12-2010, 05:04 PM
Yes, but I heard one time that Terry stole a puppy from a depressed little one-legged girl, who suffered from, scoliosis, exima, tooth decay, psoriasis and hay fever. Oh, and she was also a orphan. I'm not saying it is true, but that's what I heard.

Well I heard Terry Bradshaw is the one that actually captured Charlie Manson, so like, he's still awesome!!!

silver & black
03-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I find it funny how people now respect Bradshaw... after what Bradshaw went through with Steeler fans.

I wonder how many Steelers fans know that TB practically begged Al Davis to get him out of Pittsburgh and make him a Raider?

chacha
03-12-2010, 06:53 PM
In my opinion, Ben is the first true franchise QB the Steelers have had.

:banging: yeah right Terry meant nothing to the Steelers

Psyychoward86
03-12-2010, 07:08 PM
I wonder how many Steelers fans know that TB practically begged Al Davis to get him out of Pittsburgh and make him a Raider?

are you serious?

silver & black
03-12-2010, 07:10 PM
are you serious?

Yes sir.

WH
03-12-2010, 07:23 PM
BUMP!

TERRY BRADSHAW RULES THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hollywood Hulk Hogan rules the world. Get it right, brother.

HometownGal
03-12-2010, 07:28 PM
Terry Bradshaw. Wasn't he that dude who couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the C? :laughing: :wink:

It is really unjust to compare Brad and Ben - different styles and different eras. I love what Ben has brought to the field and to the team (ON THE FIELD), but imho - #12 is #1 as far as Steelers QB's go.

To illustrate how ignorant the Pittsburgh sports media is - and was back then as well - they used to poke fun at Bradshaw for being as dumb as a stump. Terry was a bumpkin through and through but he never came across to me as dumb.

Northside Jonny
03-12-2010, 07:36 PM
I have to say Ben just because I wasn't born yet when Terry was playing.

MongoSteeler
03-13-2010, 06:08 AM
Ben won't get the chance to be greater than Bradshaw if he doesn't smarten up real soon.

Rick5895
03-13-2010, 06:59 AM
Great thread!!!! Terry is my choice as well, although if Ben gets his head on straight he could very well pass Bradshaw. I remember all the throws in the SB's and big games but for me the lasting memory of Terry is the final game he played in his career against the Jets in '83. With the Steelers playoff hopes hanging by a thread, TB came in with a elbow of mush and threw 2 tds' to save the Steelers season and put them in the playoffs.

Some of the people that pick Ben point to the talent that TB had. We all know the HOF layers from the 70's, the great D they had, but .................. Ben has had some of the best players of today to play with as well
Ward, Bettis, Miller, Faneca, (even at times Willie) Troy, Peezy, Harrison, Farrior, Casey, A.Smith.

Aside from the SB wins and MVP's and those types of things, my main reason that Bradshaw is SIMPLY THE BEST STEELERS QB EVER >>>>>> he called his own plays, something none of the players do today. he only one close to TB (of todays QB's) IMO is Peyton Manning. Bradshaw was an OC on the field>

pghfrank1948
03-13-2010, 07:02 AM
The dumbest thing Bradshaw ever did was not to show up at the (Chiefs) funeral to pay his respects to a man who he respected and admired.

4xSBChamps
12-10-2010, 10:04 PM
http://justwatchthegame.com/blog/comparing-quarterbacks

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-10-2010, 10:22 PM
I would still take Big Ben, even at this point in their careers.

Those that are absolutely hung up on Terry, keep in mind also, that Bradshaw played in an era when QBs were only expected to drop back about 15-20 times a game, tops. They took much less of a beating than a guy like Ben who has to drop back 25-45 times a game most weeks.

The 1970's Steelers had one of the best offensive lines (even if it was because of roids) out there. Big Ben plays behind the worst SB-winning Oline in the NFL.

Terry Bradshaw had the benefit of a great running game backing him up, Ben won SB XLIII with the 23rd ranked run game.

You cannot compare Bradshaw's 4 Sb rings to Ben's 2-- Ben is playing in the salary cap era. When Bradshaw played, there was no salary cap and teams could afford to keep returning the same million-dollar receivers/players year after year, so long as they had the $$$$. 2 SB rings in the salary cap era is worth more than 4 rings pre-salary cap, IMHO.

Bradshaw spent his career throwing to John Stallworth and Lynn Swann, Ben won a SB with the likes of Nate Washington and Cedrick Wilson for receivers.

Terry isn't any tougher than Ben. Ben has played a day after an appendicitis operation. Ben played a whole season after a motorcycle crash almost took his life and he went that whole season with plates holding his noggin together. He just played a down and out beating of a game with no offensive line, and won the game with a broken nose and a broken foot (in his launching foot no less). He would have played through more injuries too, but the NFL has its new safety regulations (by new, I am talking in the last decade or so) that force medical professionals to make the determination when a player can go back out there or not.

And keep in mind-- Ben is only just now entering the prime of his career....he didn't just break Terry Bradshaw's franchise records-- he smashed them to little bitty pieces.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Aside from the SB wins and MVP's and those types of things, my main reason that Bradshaw is SIMPLY THE BEST STEELERS QB EVER >>>>>> he called his own plays, something none of the players do today. he only one close to TB (of todays QB's) IMO is Peyton Manning. Bradshaw was an OC on the field>

Are you saying that if given the chance, Ben wouldn't call his own plays too? I thought that was what Cowher drafted him for-- his ability to run the no-huddle/muddle offense?

SteelerEmpire
12-10-2010, 11:47 PM
One thing about Ben different than Terry B.... Ben's never down rated and talked about his team.

MattsMe
12-11-2010, 12:45 AM
I would still take Big Ben, even at this point in their careers.

Those that are absolutely hung up on Terry, keep in mind also, that Bradshaw played in an era when QBs were only expected to drop back about 15-20 times a game, tops. They took much less of a beating than a guy like Ben who has to drop back 25-45 times a game most weeks.

The 1970's Steelers had one of the best offensive lines (even if it was because of roids) out there. Big Ben plays behind the worst SB-winning Oline in the NFL.

Terry Bradshaw had the benefit of a great running game backing him up, Ben won SB XLIII with the 23rd ranked run game.

You cannot compare Bradshaw's 4 Sb rings to Ben's 2-- Ben is playing in the salary cap era. When Bradshaw played, there was no salary cap and teams could afford to keep returning the same million-dollar receivers/players year after year, so long as they had the $$$$. 2 SB rings in the salary cap era is worth more than 4 rings pre-salary cap, IMHO.

Bradshaw spent his career throwing to John Stallworth and Lynn Swann, Ben won a SB with the likes of Nate Washington and Cedrick Wilson for receivers.

Terry isn't any tougher than Ben. Ben has played a day after an appendicitis operation. Ben played a whole season after a motorcycle crash almost took his life and he went that whole season with plates holding his noggin together. He just played a down and out beating of a game with no offensive line, and won the game with a broken nose and a broken foot (in his launching foot no less). He would have played through more injuries too, but the NFL has its new safety regulations (by new, I am talking in the last decade or so) that force medical professionals to make the determination when a player can go back out there or not.

And keep in mind-- Ben is only just now entering the prime of his career....he didn't just break Terry Bradshaw's franchise records-- he smashed them to little bitty pieces.

I don't know who the better QB is, but your info is way off.

Bradshaw didn't drop back 15-20 times, max, as you claim. He averaged 24.7 pass attempts per game. He also rushed 444 times. I'll be generous and say that half of those were QB sneaks or other designed runs. (We know it was much less than that.)

That's 222 more dropbacks, which makes it just over 26 pass attempts per game.

Using the same guidelines, Ben drops back about 32 times per game.

32 is more than 26, but not nearly as much as 15-20 max vs. 25-45.

Also, Bradshaw spent nearly a third of his career (the first 4 years) without either Swann or Stallworth. He didn't exactly "spend his career" throwing to them.

If I remember right, Ben's first 4 years were spent throwing to Burress for a year, Ward for 4 years, and Holmes for 2.

As far as the o-line, Bradshaw's was definitely more talented. But for 2/3rds of his career, THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO BLOCK WITH THEIR HANDS! I think that counts for something.

I don't know who's tougher. I know Bradshaw got the shit beat out of him. I know he got picked up and slammed on his head. But Ben is one tough SOB as well.


In the end, I can't say who is better, but hopefully this clears up some of the exaggerations. They sound good, but they're just not true.

Here's hoping Ben wins another 5 rings and puts this thread to bed for good.

:drink:

MikeHaullace
12-11-2010, 03:06 AM
2U1Xtci4PBw

After watching this, I really wish I were alive to see that. Never before in my life did I ever think to search for "Terry Bradshaw Highlights" on YouTube.

I caught myself on four occasions, during the first watch, rewinding a throw because it looked too rediculous to be true.

Terry Bradshaw... Respect. :tt03::tt03::tt03:

MattsMe
12-11-2010, 03:13 AM
After watching this, I really wish I were alive to see that. Never before in my life did I ever think to search for "Terry Bradshaw Highlights" on YouTube.

I caught myself on four occasions, during the first watch, rewinding a throw because it looked too rediculous to be true.

Terry Bradshaw... Respect. :tt03::tt03::tt03:

I've watched all those videos a couple dozen times. He had a cannon attached to his shoulder.

There's a story somewhere about how Noll tried the west coast offense once in training camp, but it didn't work.

All of the receivers had bruised chests from Brad's short passes.

MikeHaullace
12-11-2010, 03:18 AM
I've watched all those videos a couple dozen times. He had a cannon attached to his shoulder.

There's a story somewhere about how Noll tried the west coast offense once in training camp, but it didn't work.

All of the receivers had bruised chests from Brad's short passes.

You know, I guess what it comes down to is having to hear about Bradshaw's greatness ad nauseam (thanks, dad) all throughout my childhood... Had heard all the stories. Seen all his Super Bowls... Just never watched a Terry Bradshaw highlight reel.

Now that I have, I'm sure I'm going to watch it a couple dozen times myself...

... On to time #3. :wink02:

MikeHaullace
12-11-2010, 03:21 AM
As far as which I think is the best?

Well...

Skins on the wall.

Your move, Ben.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 04:28 AM
ben roethlisberger is the first true franchise qb of the steelers and better than bradshaw but in bradshaw era that team was filled in now hall of famers and clearly probably the best dynasty ever.

put the bradshaw on the oilers or something dunno if they would have the same results but he was a big winner he may of thrown more ints than td's or w/e but man when he needed to win games he did.

And with that logic ... If the Browns drafted Ben how many super bowls would he have ? Right ZERO! Ben was lucky to get drafted to a pretty good team that had Pro Bowler on both sides of the ball.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 04:32 AM
Would everyone quit it with the 4 super bowl wins? It is a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT to win the Super Bowl. A franchise QB is a guy your team can't function without. Ask Mike Kruzcek how the Steelers did without TB.

Steelers were 3-1 this year without Ben...beat 2 of the NFC leaders in Tampa and Atlanta...I'd call that functioning.

pete74
12-11-2010, 06:05 AM
i take Ben over Bradshaw. Ben is definatly a better and more complete QB. Bradshaw has 4 rings but he didnt single handedly win those rings. he was part of a great system. im not taking anything away from Bradshaw because he was a great QB but Ben is definatly the better of the 2

pete74
12-11-2010, 06:10 AM
Steelers were 3-1 this year without Ben...beat 2 of the NFC leaders in Tampa and Atlanta...I'd call that functioning.

i agree to an exent but i dont think we would of played as well down the stretch without Ben. its definatly a team effort and no matter how good a QB is he will never shine without people to block for him and catch the balls he throws.

with that said, the QB is the most important position on the football field. look at all the top teams this year, they all have a great QB. every once in a while a team with a great defense will sneak in without a QB but its rare. hell just look at arizona and how different they were with Warner. with him they were able to beat any team on any day. without him there a joke. there horrible

zulater
12-11-2010, 09:39 AM
Drama Queen Ben doesn't have anywhere near the toughness that Bradshaw had either. I'll never forget Super Bowl 10 when Bradshaw was knocked unconscious as he let loose a 64 yard bomb to Lynn Swan to win the game.

I honestly don't see the need to knock one to prop up the other.

Bradshaw was great, a first ballot Hall of Famer, with 4 SB rings to his credit. Nothing Ben has done or will ever do, will ever change that. Art Rooney Sr. maintained that Terry was the greatest Steelers of them all. Who am I to argue with The Chief? Granted Mr Rooney didn't live to see Ben play, but he certainly did see many a great Steeler, and if he says Terry was the greatest of them all, I wont argue.

All that said, Ben in his own right is a franchise qb. It was a lucky day in 2004 when he fell to the Steelers drafting at 11. With Ben I feel we always have a chance to advance to a Super Bowl. I think he's on course for Canton himself, and think it's quite likely he'll add another SB ring (or more) to his resume before he's all done.

As a Steeler fan I feel fortunate that both these great qb's are a part of Steelers history.

4xSBChamps
12-11-2010, 09:50 AM
I honestly don't see the need to knock one to prop up the other.

Agreed... the current QB is as-tough on the field as he is bone-headed off the field ~ the most recent game against the Purple-Browns is proof of this fact

pitt0wns
12-11-2010, 12:07 PM
Ben is the real deal. He plays a very unique style. I think he is hall of famer and I would take him over Bradshaw anyday

sharkweek
12-11-2010, 12:21 PM
LOL, how many HOFers did Bradshaw enjoy?

While Ben enjoyed Bettis through his first Superbowl, Bettis was a non factor in that game, and if it were not for Ben, Bettis would have been the goat that cost the Steelers that Superbowl with his fumble and Ben's "immaculate tackle" that stopped the otherwise inevitable TD return in that divisional game against the Colts.

Other than that there's Ward who will be a shoe-in, but Ward is also on the down stroke, and Polamalu, who is still a top player. Not sure how many others will be obvious HOFers.

Bradshaw enjoyed a true dynasty in the sense that most of the core pieces were in place for all 4 of those superbowls, there's a lot more turn over year in and out in this league nowadays.

At any rate we have to wait until Ben's career is over before we can finally judge how good he is. At his pace he's going to destroy the marks for 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. He might not put up world beating numbers, but when it comes to clutch there are few that can even be considered as possibly better.

BengalDestroyer
12-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Terry is a better quarterback....so far, Ben's not done!

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-11-2010, 06:43 PM
I don't know who the better QB is, but your info is way off.

Bradshaw didn't drop back 15-20 times, max, as you claim. He averaged 24.7 pass attempts per game. He also rushed 444 times. I'll be generous and say that half of those were QB sneaks or other designed runs. (We know it was much less than that.)

That's 222 more dropbacks, which makes it just over 26 pass attempts per game.

Using the same guidelines, Ben drops back about 32 times per game.

32 is more than 26, but not nearly as much as 15-20 max vs. 25-45.

If you read what I actually said, I stated that Bradshaw played in an era when the average QB only had to drop back 15-20 times a game. I did not say that Terry specifically did.

A descent day for a QB in the 1970's was something to the tune of 17 of 23 for about 200 yards, and a TD and an INT. Today, it is not uncommon for QBs to throw for over 400 yards per game, and 40or more attempts as routine.

Also, Bradshaw spent nearly a third of his career (the first 4 years) without either Swann or Stallworth. He didn't exactly "spend his career" throwing to them.

The conversation has been specifically fixating upon SB wins. That is the time period of Terry's career that I was comparing to Ben's. When Terry was wining SB's, he was throwing to Swann and Stallworth. When Ben was wining SB's, he was throwing to Cedrick Wilson and Nate Washington. This last time he had Hines and Holmes, which is also descent but is arguably not as good as the Swann/Stallworth combo.

If I remember right, Ben's first 4 years were spent throwing to Burress for a year, Ward for 4 years, and Holmes for 2.

It took Holmes 2 to 3 years to finally deliver the skills and plays on the field that we would expect from a first round pick receiver (look at how many times the Steelers have drafted WRs in the 1st round). Before that, he had very inconsistent hands, a tendency to run the wrong routes which led to costly INTs (a problem I see he still has).

As far as the o-line, Bradshaw's was definitely more talented.

A huge understatement.

But for 2/3rds of his career, THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO BLOCK WITH THEIR HANDS! I think that counts for something.

It does, but teams ran the ball a lot more and offensive lines in that era were geared towards run blocking more than anything. You don't use your hands much in run blocking where you just want to drive the defenders backwards off the line of scrimmage.

I don't know who's tougher. I know Bradshaw got the shit beat out of him. I know he got picked up and slammed on his head. But Ben is one tough SOB as well.

Honestly, I think this one is a wash. Both of them were tough as nails. Not much denying that if anybody saw Terry knocked out on the field and then coming back into the game, or Ben playing with a crooked azz nose.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Steelers were 3-1 this year without Ben...beat 2 of the NFC leaders in Tampa and Atlanta...I'd call that functioning.

The Steelers had since July to plan for that, and as a result gameplanned and brought in the personnel to compensate accordingly.

During that span, our special teams and defense played absolutely lights out football to compensate for the expected dropoff in the passing game. But that was a level of play that no unit can be expected to maintain over the course of a 16 game season.

As you can see now, we are feeling the effects of that over-the-top performance, as guys are starting to break down and get injured.

This would be a valid argument if the Steelers got blindsided and say, Ben got injured in the final preseason game and had to sit out for 4 weeks and the Steelers still went 4-0 or something. But that would still just show that the team is capable of stepping up their game for a few weeks when a key player is out for a while.

If this was intended as an argument for Terry, against Ben, how about.....the 1976 season? (Terry Bradshaw was injured in week 5 after a vicious sack by the Browns and had to sit out for a significant amount of time, but the defense pitched 5 shutouts that season, and the Steelers finished 11-3, if I recall correctly, after a stretch when they scored no offensive TD for like 4 games-- that was the season Jack Lambert made his famous "Everybody on this defense better give 150% or I'll break your legs" speech).

Steeldude
12-11-2010, 07:09 PM
Forget about it......No quaterback ever had the power Brad had......Not even close....He had the best arm ever in the history of football.......Ben cant throw over 55 yards......Bradshaw could throw 80 yards without taking a step.......

This article is spot on........Back then there was no pansy whining........

Ben got his niche going and he is a great qb.......But he doesnt have near the physical tools Brad had..........

BR can throw over 55 yards. i doubt bradshaw could throw 80 yards. i have never seen any QB throw 80 yards. elway and favre have strong arms, but could not reach 80.

i give the stronger arm to bradshaw as well as the accuracy on long passes.

Steeldude
12-11-2010, 07:10 PM
a 70's QB compared to a 2000's QB?

huntingteacher
12-11-2010, 07:22 PM
I remember well the last game Bradshaw played. He had been hurt and had not played much all season, and the team was so mediocre with Cliff Stout. ( God he sucked) Anyway, Bradshaw starts and plays most of the game before reinjuring his shoulder. The Steelers looked awesome that game. The first time all season. The following week, the team was back to mediocre. Anyway, I just knew at THAT moment, after a decade of winning, how good he really was. Franco was decent, and our recievers were super. But it was Bradshaw that carried that team for Super bowl wins 3 and 4.

OX1947
12-11-2010, 07:22 PM
Let me put it this way, the difference between the Raiders of the 70's and the the Steelers of the 70's was Terry Bradshaw. Imagine Bradshaw on the Raiders throwing those 60 yarders with ease right into the absolute perfect spots to Cliff Branch instead of Stallworth and Swynn.

Super Bowl IX was the only year the Steelers were almost 100% defense and running game dependent. In Super Bowl X, XIII and XIV, the Steelers do not win those Super Bowls without Bradshaw's deep and extremely accurate throws.

Big Ben has the potential to match Bradshaw's impact winning wide, however, comparing them is illegitimate because the rules in the 70s and now are 180 degrees difference.

MattsMe
12-11-2010, 07:44 PM
If you read what I actually said, I stated that Bradshaw played in an era when the average QB only had to drop back 15-20 times a game. I did not say that Terry specifically did.

Sorry, that's not true either.

League wide average pass attempts per game:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1982/

1970 - 27.4
1971 - 26.9
1972 - 25.9
1973 - 24.8
1974 - 24.3
1975 - 26.4
1976 - 26.2
1977 - 25.0
1978 - 26.4
1979 - 29.0
1980 - 30.6
1981 - 31.7
1982 - 31.5

So, the truth is Terry played in an era when the avg QB dropped back a little more than 27 times per game. Not 15-20.

It doesn't make Bradshaw the better quarterback, but untrue exaggerations don't make Ben better either.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 08:14 PM
The Steelers had since July to plan for that, and as a result gameplanned and brought in the personnel to compensate accordingly.

During that span, our special teams and defense played absolutely lights out football to compensate for the expected dropoff in the passing game. But that was a level of play that no unit can be expected to maintain over the course of a 16 game season.

As you can see now, we are feeling the effects of that over-the-top performance, as guys are starting to break down and get injured.

This would be a valid argument if the Steelers got blindsided and say, Ben got injured in the final preseason game and had to sit out for 4 weeks and the Steelers still went 4-0 or something. But that would still just show that the team is capable of stepping up their game for a few weeks when a key player is out for a while.

If this was intended as an argument for Terry, against Ben, how about.....the 1976 season? (Terry Bradshaw was injured in week 5 after a vicious sack by the Browns and had to sit out for a significant amount of time, but the defense pitched 5 shutouts that season, and the Steelers finished 11-3, if I recall correctly, after a stretch when they scored no offensive TD for like 4 games-- that was the season Jack Lambert made his famous "Everybody on this defense better give 150% or I'll break your legs" speech).

Really, I think not, the Steelers gave Ben the most snaps with the first team in most of the "meaningful" preseason games. You think they were game planning that early ? Gimme a break ! Any other excuses why we went 3-1 without Ben ? Cause that excuse is total bunk.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 08:23 PM
[QUOTE=Steeldude;877716]BR can throw over 55 yards. i doubt bradshaw could throw 80 yards. i have never seen any QB throw 80 yards. elway and favre have strong arms, but could not reach 80.

From what Ive seen Ben has the weakest arm on the Team. I would rate them Bryon, Batch,Dennis and Ben. If you can be objective for one second.... Ben underthrows 80-90 % of his passes more than he ever over throws or hits a guy right in stride. If you think any different you clearly aren't watching the games. Ok some say how he over throw wallace the last game... that was a terrible pass that should have been a Td...just goes to show how bad he is at deep throws. It looks as if we are a west coast offense with all Bens dinks and dunks.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Roethlisberger is head and shoulders better than Bradshaw. Not even close. He's about 3 seasons away from breaking all the records it took Bradshaw 14 years to set.

MikeHaullace
12-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Observation from the game in Houston back in '05:

Pre-game, Ben was throwing to someone on the front corner of the end zone. Ben was going back in 5 yard increments, throwing 3-5 per yard line. At about the 40, he started putting arc on the ball.

Even from 60 yards, he hit the guy in the chest with pin-point accuracy. It was a thing of beauty.

That said, I've never seen Ben throw a beautiful long ball with any consistency in the flow of the game.

Bradshaw apparently threw 45-55 yard ropes on the money, even during/after scrambling. This ascertained from a 5 minute highlight reel. Only a handful of plays from his career.

From my perspective, Bradshaw wins the arm strength argument all. day. long.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 08:40 PM
From my perspective, Bradshaw wins the arm strength argument all. day. long.

And JaMarcus Russell beats everyone in the history of the NFL in terms of arm strength...

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 08:44 PM
Roethlisberger is head and shoulders better than Bradshaw. Not even close. He's about 3 seasons away from breaking all the records it took Bradshaw 14 years to set.

Yep 2 Super bowls, 2 rape allegations, one face plant into a Buick that cost us a season with his terrible play... horrendous is a better word for that year. All his 104 fevers, broken toes,fingers and whatever other injury he conjures up that the Steelers have no idea he has.... Lets not forget he still has a pending civil case for RAPING a women ahead of him. We may have the next OJ on this team. And lets hear how crazy that girl is....when the case has not been thrown out over a year later ??? I guess maybe shes boning the Nevada court system because shes such a ***** ? Yep I can say the steelers have won 2 SB's with him at QB ,he made his share of plays but, BR is not the same class as Terry Bradshaw. He could only hope he stays out of jail long enough to win another SB

.

MikeHaullace
12-11-2010, 08:53 PM
And JaMarcus Russell beats everyone in the history of the NFL in terms of arm strength...

So you understand the point then? Good for you?

Arm strength not a quarterback make.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 09:01 PM
Yep 2 Super bowls, 2 rape allegations, one face plant into a Buick that cost us a season with his terrible play... horrendous is a better word for that year. All his 104 fevers, broken toes,fingers and whatever other injury he conjures up that the Steelers have no idea he has.... Lets not forget he still has a pending civil case for RAPING a women ahead of him. We may have the next OJ on this team. And lets hear how crazy that girl is....when the case has not been thrown out over a year later ??? I guess maybe shes boning the Nevada court system because shes such a ***** ? Yep I can say the steelers have won 2 SB's with him at QB ,he made his share of plays but, BR is not the same class as Terry Bradshaw. He could only hope he stays out of jail long enough to win another SB

.

You're clearly very bitter towards Ben for no apparent reason. I bet he 'conjured' up his broken nose too? And yes Andrea McNulty deserves to be in an insane asylum, if you've read anything about her at all. The fact that you're comparing Ben to OJ makes me think you deserve to be there with her. He's never been charged with a crime in his life. Yes he had a bad season in 2006, following a horrible car crash (which by the way, was the other driver's fault), and an appendectomy. In fact, that season was about the same as an average Bradshaw season when he was healthy.

Steeldude
12-11-2010, 09:11 PM
[QUOTE=Steeldude;877716]BR can throw over 55 yards. i doubt bradshaw could throw 80 yards. i have never seen any QB throw 80 yards. elway and favre have strong arms, but could not reach 80.

From what Ive seen Ben has the weakest arm on the Team. I would rate them Bryon, Batch,Dennis and Ben. If you can be objective for one second.... Ben underthrows 80-90 % of his passes more than he ever over throws or hits a guy right in stride. If you think any different you clearly aren't watching the games. Ok some say how he over throw wallace the last game... that was a terrible pass that should have been a Td...just goes to show how bad he is at deep throws. It looks as if we are a west coast offense with all Bens dinks and dunks.

what are you talking about? did i say anything about BR not hanging passes etc...? hmmm...i don't know why i wrote so many posts talking about how poor BR's long ball is.

if BR dinks and dunks then maybe the steelers wouldn't be so anemic on offense(partly arians fault). he holds the ball because he can't read the WRs fast enough. it would be nice to see him dink and dunk like brady rather than waiting 8 seconds to see a WR.

as for arm strength, BR can throw for over 55 yards. i am not saying he is accurate, but he can throw that far(many QBs can). batch has the weakest arm. if you think any differently then you clearly aren't watching the games. BR's problems with under-throwing WRs are his poor mechanics and average to poor field recognition.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 09:14 PM
You're clearly very bitter towards Ben for no apparent reason. I bet he 'conjured' up his broken nose too? And yes Andrea McNulty deserves to be in an insane asylum, if you've read anything about her at all. The fact that you're comparing Ben to OJ makes me think you deserve to be there with her. He's never been charged with a crime in his life. Yes he had a bad season in 2006, following a horrible car crash (which by the way, was the other driver's fault), and an appendectomy. In fact, that season was about the same as an average Bradshaw season when he was healthy.

He was ticketed for not having a motorcycle license...he had an expired permit = accident his fault. Shouldnt have been on the road...oh yeah seconds from death he told everyone ...which the medics said was totally untrue. Not bitter at all. Just not up his rear end like most. I dont give him the credit that most do because he just doesnt deserve it.

huntingteacher
12-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Anyone on this message board who says Big Pecker is better than the Holy One needs to youtube Bradshaw highlights before they speak. I just did, and I forgot most of the great plays he made. Lostmypecker's good games are just fresher in your all's memory. Yeah, I love my Steelers, but don't care much for the Rapist that's our QB!!! I still think Ray Lewis got away with Murder, and Michael Jackson was a Child Molester too!!!
Let's not bury our heads because we are fans!!! Amen!!

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=SECTION219;877724]

what are you talking about? did i say anything about BR not hanging passes etc...? hmmm...i don't know why i wrote so many posts talking about how poor BR's long ball is.

if BR dinks and dunks then maybe the steelers wouldn't be so anemic on offense(partly arians fault). he holds the ball because he can't read the WRs fast enough. it would be nice to see him dink and dunk like brady rather than waiting 8 seconds to see a WR.

as for arm strength, BR can throw for over 55 yards. i am not saying he is accurate, but he can throw that far(many QBs can). batch has the weakest arm. if you think any differently then you clearly aren't watching the games. BR's problems with under-throwing WRs are his poor mechanics and average to poor field recognition.

All agreements here, though I would definitely make a case that Ben's longball this year has been the best it's ever been. And yes Charlie Batch can throw roughly 45 yards at best. And Dixon has had only one completion 40+ in his career. And Leftwich has 25 as opposed to Ben's 57. I know it's not a scientific way of calculating arm strength, but there has to be some truth.

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 09:27 PM
He was ticketed for not having a motorcycle license...he had an expired permit = accident his fault. Shouldnt have been on the road...oh yeah seconds from death he told everyone ...which the medics said was totally untrue. Not bitter at all. Just not up his rear end like most. I dont give him the credit that most do because he just doesnt deserve it.

While his family waited at the hospital during seven hours of surgery to repair his broken jaw and other facial injuries, a doctor told them how close the quarterback came to death, Ryan Tollner, Roethlisberger's agent, said Thursday.

"They told us that his stomach was filling up with blood and he was basically drowning in his own blood," Tollner said. "They had to pump his stomach and clear his airway.

"But if the paramedics hadn't noticed that, he might not have made it. They and the doctors were incredible, and Ben is just so grateful for all they did for him."

Looks like you were wrong again.

and Again.

Pittsburgh police will cite Ben Roethlisberger for driving his motorcycle without a license or helmet, but investigators blamed the accident that injured the Steelers quarterback on the woman who failed to yield the right of way when she turned left in front of him.

"The person making the left-hand turn must yield to the oncoming traffic," Officer Daniel Connolly, who led the accident investigation, said yesterday during a news conference to announce the investigation's findings.


Facts can be pesky, can't they?

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 09:29 PM
Anyone on this message board who says Big Pecker is better than the Holy One needs to youtube Bradshaw highlights before they speak. I just did, and I forgot most of the great plays he made. Lostmypecker's good games are just fresher in your all's memory. Yeah, I love my Steelers, but don't care much for the Rapist that's our QB!!! I still think Ray Lewis got away with Murder, and Michael Jackson was a Child Molester too!!!
Let's not bury our heads because we are fans!!! Amen!!

Find a different team to cheer for. According to your logic, Charlie Batch is a rapist too.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 09:35 PM
While his family waited at the hospital during seven hours of surgery to repair his broken jaw and other facial injuries, a doctor told them how close the quarterback came to death, Ryan Tollner, Roethlisberger's agent, said Thursday.

"They told us that his stomach was filling up with blood and he was basically drowning in his own blood," Tollner said. "They had to pump his stomach and clear his airway.

"But if the paramedics hadn't noticed that, he might not have made it. They and the doctors were incredible, and Ben is just so grateful for all they did for him."

Looks like you were wrong again.

and Again.

Pittsburgh police will cite Ben Roethlisberger for driving his motorcycle without a license or helmet, but investigators blamed the accident that injured the Steelers quarterback on the woman who failed to yield the right of way when she turned left in front of him.

"The person making the left-hand turn must yield to the oncoming traffic," Officer Daniel Connolly, who led the accident investigation, said yesterday during a news conference to announce the investigation's findings.


Facts can be pesky, can't they?

Your right he was ticketed twice. Plead guilty to both.

In your little Ben world has your master ever done anything wrong ?

Neil-Still-Rules-14
12-11-2010, 09:50 PM
Your right he was ticketed twice. Plead guilty to both.

In your little Ben world has your master ever done anything wrong ?

Yes Ben has done wrong in his life. He should wear a helmet when he rides his motorcycle. He should be much more careful on which women he decides to socialize with. And there are times when he underthrows his receivers. But there's not a better QB in the entire NFL, as far as I'm concerned, as Ben Roethlisberger. You just need to learn that yes, he's not perfect. But without a doubt, it's not arguable, he is an amazing franchise quarterback, something Pittsburgh has been waiting for for a long long time.

I don't think it's so outrageous to actually look at the facts and make an unbiased decision on something. For example, in the Lake Tahoe incident, the girl was self proclaimed "Down to ****" and was 20 with a fake ID. She is reported to have been following Ben around the town and after the two had sex, never claimed she had been raped until her friends got hold of her. She changed her story multiple times as well. Should Ben had been there? No. But that doesn't make him a rapist or a bad person. He just put himself in a bad situation.

Time and time again, these "Steelers Fans" I run into who hate on Ben seem to have never liked him before the motorcycle accident or the allegations. For whatever reason, his style of play and a couple bad games (apparently) are enough for them to find fault in everything he does. I'm guessing you're in this boat. All I ask is you be more reasonable and realize that the Steelers are probably not going to have another franchise QB for at least 20 years after Ben retires. Enjoy this time. It'll be gone before you know it.

SECTION219
12-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Yes Ben has done wrong in his life. He should wear a helmet when he rides his motorcycle. He should be much more careful on which women he decides to socialize with. And there are times when he underthrows his receivers. But there's not a better QB in the entire NFL, as far as I'm concerned, as Ben Roethlisberger. You just need to learn that yes, he's not perfect. But without a doubt, it's not arguable, he is an amazing franchise quarterback, something Pittsburgh has been waiting for for a long long time.

I don't think it's so outrageous to actually look at the facts and make an unbiased decision on something. For example, in the Lake Tahoe incident, the girl was self proclaimed "Down to ****" and was 20 with a fake ID. She is reported to have been following Ben around the town and after the two had sex, never claimed she had been raped until her friends got hold of her. She changed her story multiple times as well. Should Ben had been there? No. But that doesn't make him a rapist or a bad person. He just put himself in a bad situation.

Time and time again, these "Steelers Fans" I run into who hate on Ben seem to have never liked him before the motorcycle accident or the allegations. For whatever reason, his style of play and a couple bad games (apparently) are enough for them to find fault in everything he does. I'm guessing you're in this boat. All I ask is you be more reasonable and realize that the Steelers are probably not going to have another franchise QB for at least 20 years after Ben retires. Enjoy this time. It'll be gone before you know it.

I can think of 7 better Qb's in the league now... How come during the draft when they were shopping him no one bit on the best QB in the league...oh wait,that right the Patriots weren't trying to trade Brady. I've only had my season tickets before Ben was here and I'll have them long after he's gone. Far as I'm concerned that day cant come soon enough. And I bet the Rooney feel the same way. Peolpe this ben is some football mastermind...gimme a freaking break. ie head into buick, accused of sex crimes where he paid the girl to shut up...if you dont believe that you have no clue as to whats going on in profootball. He had statetrooper gaurd the door so he can be in a room in a scum bar bathroom to take a girl forcely that is saying bone me. He is a pig
. Pick a real player like Troy who if he farts in public is probably humiliated... not a guy that cant keep with little pee pee in his pants everytime the loser has a drink. I'll be in the first motorhome in the Rivers parking lot if you wanna discuss this tomorrow,

SteelCityMom
12-11-2010, 10:28 PM
I can think of 7 better Qb's in the league now... How come during the draft when they were shopping him no one bit on the best QB in the league...oh wait,that right the Patriots weren't trying to trade Brady. I've only had my season tickets before Ben was here and I'll have them long after he's gone. Far as I'm concerned that day cant come soon enough. And I bet the Rooney feel the same way. Peolpe this ben is some football mastermind...gimme a freaking break. ie head into buick, accused of sex crimes where he paid the girl to shut up...if you dont believe that you have no clue as to whats going on in profootball. He had statetrooper gaurd the door so he can be in a room in a scum bar bathroom to take a girl forcely that is saying bone me. He is a pig
. Pick a real player like Troy who if he farts in public is probably humiliated... not a guy that cant keep with little pee pee in his pants everytime the loser has a drink. I'll be in the first motorhome in the Rivers parking lot if you wanna discuss this tomorrow,


Wow...I'm glad you have all the insider information. Thanks for letting us know the true details of what went on.

Can we move on from the rape talk and making fun of him getting hit by a car already..stick to the point of the thread maybe? It's kind of classless...and I'm kind of ashamed that I have to point this out to a Steelers fan.

steelerchad
12-11-2010, 10:35 PM
Anyone on this message board who says Big Pecker is better than the Holy One needs to youtube Bradshaw highlights before they speak. I just did, and I forgot most of the great plays he made. Lostmypecker's good games are just fresher in your all's memory. Yeah, I love my Steelers, but don't care much for the Rapist that's our QB!!! I still think Ray Lewis got away with Murder, and Michael Jackson was a Child Molester too!!!
Let's not bury our heads because we are fans!!! Amen!!

You say don't bury our heads and you close with Amen.

Kanata-Steeler
12-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Of course Bradshaw remains the best still....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTgG4o_QPY&feature=related
Terry actually likes Ben, or atleast he had tried to alot.
It's Ben who was a ***** with advice by not listening to Terry a couple years back. -well, there 'ya go Ben.

Terry Bradshaw had more M-A-T-U-R-I-T-Y when he was Ben's age, and younger for gawd sakes.

Thankfully the "BIG BEN" ego era is now over. Just keep concentrating on being the best QB you can be for the Steelers, Ben.
... as far as Bradshaw remains the best "and toughest" -oh YAY ! 'cause 4 Rings with the Steelers in 6 years proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Ben's got a couple more rings to get with the Steelers before he can ever get on that
"Big Bradshaw" podium.

MattsMe
12-11-2010, 11:58 PM
I can think of 7 better Qb's in the league now... How come during the draft when they were shopping him no one bit on the best QB in the league...oh wait,that right the Patriots weren't trying to trade Brady. I've only had my season tickets before Ben was here and I'll have them long after he's gone. Far as I'm concerned that day cant come soon enough. And I bet the Rooney feel the same way. Peolpe this ben is some football mastermind...gimme a freaking break. ie head into buick, accused of sex crimes where he paid the girl to shut up...if you dont believe that you have no clue as to whats going on in profootball. He had statetrooper gaurd the door so he can be in a room in a scum bar bathroom to take a girl forcely that is saying bone me. He is a pig
. Pick a real player like Troy who if he farts in public is probably humiliated... not a guy that cant keep with little pee pee in his pants everytime the loser has a drink. I'll be in the first motorhome in the Rivers parking lot if you wanna discuss this tomorrow,

It's very strange that you know Ben's penis is small.

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-12-2010, 12:52 AM
I'll be in the first motorhome in the Rivers parking lot if you wanna discuss this tomorrow,

Someone should get Little219 Hooked on Phoenics for Christmas....

Riddle_Of_Steel
12-12-2010, 12:54 AM
I've watched all those videos a couple dozen times. He had a cannon attached to his shoulder.

There's a story somewhere about how Noll tried the west coast offense once in training camp, but it didn't work.

All of the receivers had bruised chests from Brad's short passes.

Hardly makes him a great QB.....Leftwich is the same way, and that is the reason why he can't secure a starting job in the NFL.

Kanata-Steeler
12-12-2010, 03:05 AM
It's very strange that you know Ben's penis is small.

Well, you know the old joke ?,
"... he was trolling for *****'s,..., and I guess it worked" ?

:chuckle:

Kanata-Steeler
12-12-2010, 03:12 AM
It's too bad these clowns @ http://top100.nfl.com/
don't seem to see this.
Bradshaw was rated 50th overall ?, pfft.
TB should have been atleast way up there right behind Joe Montana.

MikeHaullace
12-12-2010, 04:14 AM
You know...

I wasn't alive when Bradshaw played in his prime, though have pictures of me in Bradshaw shirts'n'diapers..

I've seen Mark Malone.. Bubby and Korky. I still to this day believe Neil owed somebody a sh!t-ton of moniez.

Ben is hands down, the best Steelers QB I've ever seen.

In fact(opinion), I'll go as far as to say, all variables considered, Ben is the guy I want leading the charge when a score is a must.

Brady gets pressured... BOOM. In his head. Ineffective. Otherwise, he's cash. Which is usually. Because his line let's him throw from a lawn chair... With a black-and-white striped umbrella... And a tutu made from hair extensions.

Manning has showed us that he can't lead just *any* group of guys to 12-0. I still laugh at his commercials though. ("CUT THAT MEAT!")

Ben just KNOWS HOW TO F^%KING WIN. Stats aside. Style aside. He wins. When the game is on the line... He wins. Especially in the important ones.

And I like that. A lot. :tt03:

.02

SECTION219
12-12-2010, 05:35 AM
You know...

I wasn't alive when Bradshaw played in his prime, though have pictures of me in Bradshaw shirts'n'diapers..

I've seen Mark Malone.. Bubby and Korky. I still to this day believe Neil owed somebody a sh!t-ton of moniez.

Ben is hands down, the best Steelers QB I've ever seen.

In fact(opinion), I'll go as far as to say, all variables considered, Ben is the guy I want leading the charge when a score is a must.

Brady gets pressured... BOOM. In his head. Ineffective. Otherwise, he's cash. Which is usually. Because his line let's him throw from a lawn chair... With a black-and-white striped umbrella... And a tutu made from hair extensions.

Manning has showed us that he can't lead just *any* group of guys to 12-0. I still laugh at his commercials though. ("CUT THAT MEAT!")

Ben just KNOWS HOW TO F^%KING WIN. Stats aside. Style aside. He wins. When the game is on the line... He wins. Especially in the important ones.

And I like that. A lot. :tt03:

.02

As for you statement if Brady get pressure Boom ? OMG thats a joke. Did you happen to see the MNF game against the Jets, he was pressured chased out of the pocket...where he, looking quickly down field found and hit his TE's for big gains. Who the F does Brady have on that team ? Welker oh boy ! Danny Woodhead HOFer there. Brady makes his whole team better... by leaps and bounds. He came in here and wiped up the field with our D. Thats when we need our QB to do the same thing and he failed miserably. Ben sucked...he couldnt do anything until the 4th and NE let him in mop up time. Ben stats were a joke going into the 4th qtr. He isnt in the same galaxy as Brady is in leadership and overall QB ability. If you think any different your just a homer that have Ben so far up your wazoo your choking on his jock.:banging:

SteelCityMom
12-12-2010, 10:18 AM
It's too bad these clowns @ http://top100.nfl.com/
don't seem to see this.
Bradshaw was rated 50th overall ?, pfft.
TB should have been atleast way up there right behind Joe Montana.

He's higher on some lists out there...but they're all just mostly opinion anyway.

IMO, Ben and Terry are sort of in the same boat as far as how great of QB's they are. I think they both are/were well above average...but they both have benefited greatly from the talent around them (specifically defense) to carry them to championships.

Everybody loves to use the argument that Terry won 4 SBs (the same way people use Ben's 2 SB argument), but his career numbers are pretty average. I think that's why he isn't at the top of the list(s) a lot like Montana is.

I'm glad they've both been QBs for the Steelers though. They're both great for the system here. I don't think a lot of other QBs would be able to have the kind of success that both have enjoyed here. Terry has the better arm, but they both play the same style of football and succeed(ed) greatly at it at times.

TRH
12-12-2010, 11:51 AM
I will try and take my personal feelings for Bradshaw out of this. He's really an a**hole who loves to continue trashing this city over and over and over again. He's said some things where i wanted to reach through the TV screen and punch him repeatedly in the face. I've had it with him. At some point, i'd love to see the city say, "you know what Terry...go F yourself....get over it"
That said...look at the f---ing team he had around him. Most opposing players from that era had and still have very little respect for him and say he wasn't that good. And fairly average stats playing on that team.
Imagine if Ben had played with that offense and line and everything else. Or Manning. Or Montana. Or Favre. Or whomever.
Ben. Easily. Not even close really.

steelerchad
12-12-2010, 12:45 PM
2 different eras. Really hard for me to say. I was very young when Terry was in his prime. Ben at times frustrates me to know end, but there's nobody in the game today I'd rather have on the last drive of the game needing points.

I will say this. Terry, probably had the greatest team of all time around him. The greatest defense to ever play the game setting him up in great situations. 2 HOF WR's, a HOF RB, A HOF C. So the guy who snapped him the ball and protected him, the guy he handed the ball to, and the 2 guys he threw the ball to are all in Canton.
Ben does not have this luxury. Hines has the best chance, but is still a long shot to get into the HOF IMO.

Kanata-Steeler
12-12-2010, 01:02 PM
Bradshaw remains the best

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/localsports/1-10-Steigerwald

I will still take Terry Bradshaw. Believe it or not, we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of the Steelers' drafting of Bradhsaw. He was the first player picked in the NFL draft on Jan. 27 , 1970.

Ben Roethlisberger just completed a season in which he became the first Steelers' quarterback to throw for more than 4,000 yards and was voted MVP by his teammates.

Roethlisberger has had some spectacular moments in the past year and has made jaw dropping, last-second throws to win games while he was putting up some pretty impressive numbers. Some people have suggested that he's the best quarterback in Steelers' history.

Not yet.

Bradshaw is still the best quarterback I've ever seen. I know that you're not allowed to say he's better than Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas or 10 or 12 other quarterbacks. But I still have never seen anyone who could throw a football the way that he could.

If you get into a statistics war, Bradshaw gets blown away by Marino and Montana, but he also gets blown away by Neil O'Donnell and no one with a brain would suggest that O'Donnell deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with Bradshaw.

Forty years ago, Bradshaw was designated the savior of a team that had just finished 1-13, had five winning seasons in the previous 29 years and was moving into a new stadium.

Roethlisberger was brought in to a team that was two years removed from playing in the AFC Championship and was expected to spend at least a season watching Tommy Maddox.

He ended up having the best rookie season ever by an NFL quarterback and won two Super Bowls in his first five seasons.

Bradshaw completed 38 percent of his passes his rookie year. He made up for that by throwing six touchdown passes and 24 interceptions. He never had more touchdown passes than interceptions in his first five seasons and in his eighth season he had 17 touchdown passes and 19 interceptions.

But forget the stats. He was playing a different game because bump-and-run coverage was permitted.

There was a telling moment during what would be the Steelers' winning touchdown drive against the Packers a couple of weeks ago. Roethlisberger was intercepted but the play was called back because of an illegal contact penalty.

Hines Ward had been knocked down about seven yards into his route. The replay showed Ward looking almost indignant as he was getting up. He couldn't believe that somebody would knock him down while he was trying to run his route. There was no such thing as an illegal contact penalty when Bradshaw was throwing all of those interceptions in the early to mid 1970s.

Roethlisberger's greatness comes from his amazing ability to keep plays alive with his scrambling. You've seen him pump faking and directing traffic while he moves around in the pocket.

What he sees downfield is worlds away from what he would have seen in 1975. He sees receivers running around trying to separate themselves from defenders who are not allowed to lay a finger on them. If he can stay upright long enough, there is no way a defender can prevent a receiver from getting open.

When Bradshaw scrambled, he saw his receivers being knocked off their routes and off their feet no matter how far downfield they were. Bradshaw was a great scrambler but his scrambles usually ended with a run because it was unlikely that any of his receivers could get free in time.

I was sitting in a sixth level, end zone seat at Three Rivers Stadium in 1972. The Steelers were playing the Cleveland Browns and they were backed up to the goal line directly below me. Bradshaw dropped back into the end zone and threw a pass to Ron Shanklin, who was running a deep post.

Shanklin caught the ball at the 50, just as my jaw was dropping from the throw. The pass went 55 yards in the air and there was no arc. It came in helmet high, just out of the reach of Browns safety Erich Barnes. I had never seen a football thrown like that.

Neither had Barnes, an All-Pro, who was in his 13th season.

He was quoted in the Cleveland Plain Dealer the next day as saying that he had never seen anything like it. He had Shanklin covered and was looking up for the ball and couldn't believe that it came in just under his nose.

CBS has been running a promotional spot during their telecasts celebrating their 50 years of televising NFL games and one of the highlights is Lynn Swann's leaping, bobbling catch against the Cowboys in Super Bowl X. You've seen it a million times, but you've probably always focused on the catch.

The next time you see it, watch Bradshaw. He takes a short drop and ****s the ball by his ear and flicks it 50 yards in the air on a rope. I actually made a point last week to hit rewind on my DVR so I could watch it again.

Bradshaw never lined up in the shotgun formation and he never had more than three wide receivers on the field with him at one time. He got a chance to play for a few years with the relaxed rules but he had to learn to play in a system that made it impossible even for Hall of Fame quarterbacks to complete 55 percent of their passes.

He could run, too. Go to you tube.com and search for Terry Bradshaw highlights. He starts running about two minutes and 30 seconds in.

Oh, by the way. He still has twice as many Super Bowl rings.

John Steigerwald writes a Sunday column for the Observer-Reporter


Very nice article thoughm and it never fails to impress just how unbelievably GREAT the Steelers were back then too. :tt02:

Thanks.

caseydog
12-12-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm a huge fan of Big Ben, but I grew up watching Bradshaw and like the writer of the article, I haven't seen ANYONE who throws the ball like Terry Bradshaw did. It truly is a different game than it was back then. You look at some of the other QB's of that era and none of them have stats like todays QB's. Terry's QB rating was just over 70, Ken Stabler & Joe Theisman were a little over 75 and Captain Comeback of those days, Roger Staubach was at a gaudy 80! Based on those numbers, none of those guys would be able to start on a contending team these days. But Bradshaw called all his own plays and played in a game where the wide receivers were harassed just about every moment down the field. God forbid if Swann or Stallworth got loose and got a step behind a cornerback. NO ONE threw a deep ball like Bradshaw did. If you don't think so, look up "Terry Bradshaw" on youtube and watch the first highlight video that comes up. It's AMAZING the shear number of deep 40-50 plays Bradshaw completed with seemingly no effort. Off the wrong foot, on the run, no room to step up, whatever...absolute ROPES. Rarely do you see the ball thrown "up" at all. Even the one in Superbowl X when he got knocked out on the play. That ball went about 65 yards in the air.. All I know is that when the Steelers needed to score to win games, Bradshaw always pulled it off....4-0 in the Superbowl, stats be damned.


I grew up watching Bradshaw play. I was in college when Bradshaw won his forth Super Bowl. Strong, tough, and no offensive coordinator sending plays down to him from a skybox.

I've watched Ben, too. Strong, tough, but playing in a NFL that is considerably easier on quarterbacks -- where the rules make big, entertaining plays more common.

It really is apples and oranges, but I'll take Bradshaw. No hesitation. He's a better quarterback, on and off the field, IMO.

caseydog
12-12-2010, 01:59 PM
As I type, Ben is five-of-eight for 43 yards with 5 minutes left in the half against a 2-10 team.

Just sayin'...