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7willBheaven
01-15-2010, 12:35 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10015/1028435-66.stm


Rooney II wants Steelers to run the ball more
Friday, January 15, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Many share the frustration over an inconsistent Steelers running game this season; Steelers president Art Rooney II has done something about it.

He talked to coach Mike Tomlin about changing the Steelers' philosophy about the run, and they agreed it will be a point of emphasis heading into the 2010 season.

"I think Mike and I certainly agreed coming off the season that we need to run the ball more consistently to get to where we want to get to," Rooney told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette yesterday. "So that's part of the thinking in the offseason: We need to figure out how to get better running the football."

Rooney said his coach has conveyed that to offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. "Mike has talked to Bruce about that."

The Steelers ran only 42.2 percent of the time in 2009, although their 112.1 yards a game were nearly seven more than their Super Bowl season of 2008. However, Rooney's point is not so much those statistics, but the inconsistency throughout the season.

"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season," he said.

That is one reason, he said, they changed offensive line coaches. Mike Tomlin hired Sean Kugler, who most recently served with the Buffalo Bills, to replace the fired Larry Zierlein, although Rooney said that "there's no one person you can put it on."

As for the many reports that the front office tried to get Tomlin to fire Arians, Rooney said, "Not true."

"I never went to Mike and said we have to fire Bruce," Rooney said. "Mike never came to me and said we have to keep Bruce under any circumstances. We talked about every member of the staff. Mike was comfortable that we needed to make some changes, but that wasn't a change we need to make. And I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think we've had good success under Bruce.

"There was never any tug of war, 'Let's fire Bruce' or anything like that. It's one of those things: There are certain positions that take the heat in any season that goes wrong and offensive coordinators are always fair game, and Bruce knows that."

Rooney said he is satisfied with the job Tomlin has done over the past three years, although he thought the final three games of the 2009 season were crucial both to the coach and the organization after a troubling five-game losing streak.

"It was a rough stretch, it was very disappointing," Rooney said of the losing streak. "It basically cost us a chance to defend the title.

"If you look at the positive side of it, I did think that it was important we turned it around, finished the season winning three straight. I think it showed our guys still had fight in them and that Mike still had the ability to get them ready for games."

Rooney and Tomlin have had long talks since the season ended Jan. 3 in Miami with a third consecutive victory that left the Steelers 9-7 but losing all the tiebreakers to make the playoffs.

"I think that was important for the organization and it was important for Mike to show everybody that he's the kind of coach who is not going to lose his team and [who will] keep them in the right direction all the way down to the end," said Rooney.

"I think we learned something about Mike, and what we learned I think is positive for the future."

Tomlin has since fired several coaches.

"I'm certainly satisfied with Mike's approach after the season," Rooney said. "He wasn't just sitting there and saying we were just dismissed. He was upset, he wanted to make changes, he wanted to talk about what we could do to get better. As far as I was concerned, he had the exact right attitude for what we needed to do."

There will be no large makeover, no rebuilding job this year.

"I don't think we're in a blow-it-up, start-over mode," Rooney said.

"We feel like we still have a very good nucleus of a good football team and a good coaching staff -- and making some changes -- but I don't think we're looking to do anything drastic. We're sticking with the program."

The Steelers' president said management's age-old philosophy regarding the pursuit of players in free agency and in the draft will not change, even if 2010 proves to be an uncapped year and spending freely becomes permitted.

"We'll approach it similar to what we have in the past," Rooney said. "In terms of committing the amount of dollars it will take to put a good team on the field, we're prepared to do that and we will do that. But we've never believed in just throwing a lot of money at a roster; I think it's been proven there's no magic to it. You still have to build your team the way you've always built your team, and that's how we'll approach it."

Rooney acknowledged that the team's defense is showing age, but expressed optimism that younger players on the roster will begin to contribute there.

He believes the Steelers will contend for a Super Bowl in the 2010 season.

"I don't see any reason why we can't be a contender," he said. "We certainly felt like going down the stretch here, winning those last three games, that if we had gotten into the playoffs we were a team that could have won some games.

"So we're going into next year with the thought that we're a contender, and we're going to do what we need to do to put ourselves in position to, No. 1, win the division and go from there. Same approach we always had."

On Tomlin:

"I think we learned something about Mike, and what we learned I think is positive for the future."

On Arians:

"I never went to Mike and said we have to fire Bruce. ... There was never any tug of war, 'Let's fire Bruce.'"

On An Uncapped 2010:

"We've never believed in just throwing a lot of money at a roster; I think it's been proven there's no magic to it."

On Super Bowl XLV:</</span>p>

"I don't see any reason why we can't be a contender. We certainly felt like going down the stretch [this season]."

---------------------------------------------------------

This should make a lot of people happy...we'll see how things go next year i guess.

ricardisimo
01-15-2010, 05:20 AM
"Mike has talked to Bruce about that."
You better believe this is going to make a lot of people happy. Does he mean it? We'll see. Tomlin said a lot of things this past season and clearly didn't mean them. I'd have to say he lost some credibility.

When RushHard has 140 in the opener next season, the bulk of it in the second half, then I'll believe it.

supa_fly_steeler
01-15-2010, 05:52 AM
when rushard crushes defenders which he did at college i'll believe it, airhead will go 70% pass next season the stupid jackass.

mesaSteeler
01-15-2010, 06:06 AM
when rushard crushes defenders which he did at college i'll believe it, airhead will go 70% pass next season the stupid jackass.

I agree, that idiot Arians is too old of dog to learn new tricks. What scares me about his stupidity is his utter compete contempt for the concept of running the ball. I hope the fool doesn't get Ben killed with his idiotic pass happy offense.

HometownGal
01-15-2010, 06:56 AM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.

As for the many reports that the front office tried to get Tomlin to fire Arians, Rooney said, "Not true."

"I never went to Mike and said we have to fire Bruce," Rooney said. "Mike never came to me and said we have to keep Bruce under any circumstances. We talked about every member of the staff. Mike was comfortable that we needed to make some changes, but that wasn't a change we need to make. And I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think we've had good success under Bruce.

"There was never any tug of war, 'Let's fire Bruce' or anything like that. It's one of those things: There are certain positions that take the heat in any season that goes wrong and offensive coordinators are always fair game, and Bruce knows that."


I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:

vrabinec
01-15-2010, 07:35 AM
Okay, there are a lot of situations in which I would like to see us run a little more, like 3rd and 1, but there's something about an owner stepping in and telling a coach how to do his job that really bothers the hell out of me, even if it's Mr. Rooney. I know they hired Tomlin based a lot on his stated philosophy that he wanted to run the ball and stop the run, but once the coach is hired, you let him do his job, and if he's not doing it to your satisfaction, you get yourself another one.

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 07:46 AM
You better believe this is going to make a lot of people happy. Does he mean it? We'll see. Tomlin said a lot of things this past season and clearly didn't mean them. I'd have to say he lost some credibility.

When RushHard has 140 in the opener next season, the bulk of it in the second half, then I'll believe it.

Yeah, I'm sure MT and BA are going to go against the wishes of the guy who signs their checks.

If Art Rooney II says to run the ball more, you can bet your ass it is going to happen. Otherwise, heads will roll. Plus, Art II plain as day said that he thought the OL was the reason why they could not run the ball effectively when they had to, something that has been said on this board numerous times. So out goes Zierlein, in comes Kugler. I'm hoping Kugler can get the OL to improve their run blocking, so that we can run when we need to. At the same time, I do not want to see Ben's talents wasted by being nothing more than a turnstile. I still want to see him throwing the ball 25-30 times a game and utilizing all of the weapons he has at his disposal. I'm sure Mr. Rooney would agree with that as well.

I agree, that idiot Arians is too old of dog to learn new tricks. What scares me about his stupidity is his utter compete contempt for the concept of running the ball. I hope the fool doesn't get Ben killed with his idiotic pass happy offense.

He sure didn't show that "contempt" back in 2007, when the Steelers not only led the league in rushing, but were at or near the top in rushing attempts. So he has shown in the past that he is willing to commit to the run. Of course, that never even enters the equation with those who constantly criticize him...instead, they get selective amnesia.

Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.



I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:

That's OK, there will just be another excuse or they'll just flat-out call Mr. Rooney a liar, because after all, Jim Wexell, Lance Zierlein and Ken Laird just can't be wrong! :chuckle:

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 07:50 AM
Okay, there are a lot of situations in which I would like to see us run a little more, like 3rd and 1, but there's something about an owner stepping in and telling a coach how to do his job that really bothers the hell out of me, even if it's Mr. Rooney. I know they hired Tomlin based a lot on his stated philosophy that he wanted to run the ball and stop the run, but once the coach is hired, you let him do his job, and if he's not doing it to your satisfaction, you get yourself another one.

Where did it say that Mr. Rooney told Tomlin how to do his job? There's something called "end of the season meetings," and after all, Mr. Rooney is his boss. Why WOULDN'T he make his wishes known? It has been shown that throughout the history of the franchise that the Rooneys let the coaches coach. But it doesn't mean that they don't have the right to make their feelings known. I'm sure if your boss (assuming you have a boss and aren't self-employed) doesn't like something you or someone else is doing in their company, they are going to make their feelings known. Why should that be any different for the Steelers and Mr. Rooney?

drizze99
01-15-2010, 08:08 AM
I am glad that Rooney II spoke up and made sure the point was understood.

What Rooney II is saying is that he wants the Steelers to be able to run the ball when they need to. Stats don't mean shit in this case. [referring to the per game avg quoted in the article]. When the Steelers really needed to run the ball this past season, they couldn't do it. When they needed one of those classic 8-9 minute drives to wear down a D, preserve a lead and eat up some clock, we couldn't do it this season.

I do blame our O-line for this though. They do an admirable job pas blocking but when it comes to winning it in the trenches and opposing their will on a defensive line to create holes for Mendy, they fail. Hopefully Kugler can identify their weaknesses and address them in a hurry. Mendy showed that he has the talent to easily be a 1500+ rusher in this league. Now its the line's turn to help out and create some running lanes for the bowling ball.

vrabinec
01-15-2010, 08:10 AM
Where did it say that Mr. Rooney told Tomlin how to do his job? There's something called "end of the season meetings," and after all, Mr. Rooney is his boss. Why WOULDN'T he make his wishes known? It has been shown that throughout the history of the franchise that the Rooneys let the coaches coach. But it doesn't mean that they don't have the right to make their feelings known. I'm sure if your boss (assuming you have a boss and aren't self-employed) doesn't like something you or someone else is doing in their company, they are going to make their feelings known. Why should that be any different for the Steelers and Mr. Rooney?

Owner, "I want you to run the ball more."
Coach, "When?"
Owner, "What? I mean in general."
Coach, "Even when we have Holmes isolated on a rookie corner back?"
Owner, "What? No, I want you to run the ball more when it will work."
Coach, "When do you think it'll work."
Owner, "I don't know, that what I pay you to figure out. I just want you to run the ball more because it has worked in the past, and that's who we are."
Coach, "What if our running backs are hurt, and our offensive line sucks at run blocking but is better at pass blcoking?"
Owner, "Don't bother me with the details, just run the damn ball more."
Coach, "Is there some number you are looking for? Do you want a 50-50 mix? Do you want that each game, or are you okay with us running the ball against teams that don't stop the run too well, and passing it against teams that don't stop the pass too well?"
Owner, "The later. That sounds good."
Coach, "What if we play more teams that stop the run well, but not the pass? Does that mean we can pass more over the length of the season?"
Owner, "Sure."
Coach, "What if that means that we pass it just as much as we did last year?"
Owmer, "Don't argue with me. We run the ball here damn it."

Vincent
01-15-2010, 08:12 AM
...there's something about an owner stepping in and telling a coach how to do his job that really bothers the hell out of me, even if it's Mr. Rooney.

He had to step in and put a positive spin on things. But what he said with well chosen words is that the team was in meltdown, they blew a golden opportunity, they abandoned "Steeler football", and that it better hadn't happen again. IMHO, that was the right message, and I'm glad he finally said it.

"It was a rough stretch, it was very disappointing," Rooney said of the losing streak. "It basically cost us a chance to defend the title.

"If you look at the positive side of it, I did think that it was important we turned it around, finished the season winning three straight. I think it showed our guys still had fight in them and that Mike still had the ability to get them ready for games."

Rooney and Tomlin have had long talks since the season ended Jan. 3 in Miami with a third consecutive victory that left the Steelers 9-7 but losing all the tiebreakers to make the playoffs.

"I think that was important for the organization and it was important for Mike to show everybody that he's the kind of coach who is not going to lose his team and [who will] keep them in the right direction all the way down to the end," said Rooney.

"I think we learned something about Mike, and what we learned I think is positive for the future."

I know they hired Tomlin based a lot on his stated philosophy that he wanted to run the ball and stop the run, but once the coach is hired, you let him do his job, and if he's not doing it to your satisfaction, you get yourself another one.

We haven't seen the manifestation of "Tomlin's stated philosophy". We've heard a lot of hollow rhetoric without resolve that nearly lost the team. Put another way, what I heard Rooney say is "Coach Tomlin and I have talked and agreed that 2010 is going to be a much better year, right Coach? And we both agree that the Pittsburgh Steelers will seriously contend for SB XLV, right Coach?". The only thing he didn't do was kiss him.

They can't can his ass right now because what does that say about their decision to hire this kid. I think this sets the stage for the extension. It'll be a 2 year deal that makes 2010 the MT referendum year. He either does it or he's toast. And either way, the Rooneys save face.

drizze99
01-15-2010, 08:12 AM
Owner, "I want you to run the ball more."
Coach, "When?"
Owner, "What? I mean in general."
Coach, "Even when we have Holmes isolated on a rookie corner back?"
Owner, "What? No, I want you to run the ball more when it will work."
Coach, "When do you think it'll work."
Owner, "I don't know, that what I pay you to figure out. I just want you to run the ball more because it has worked in the past, and that's who we are."
Coach, "What if our running backs are hurt, and our offensive line sucks at run blocking but is better at pass blcoking?"
Owner, "Don't bother me with the details, just run the damn ball more."
Coach, "Is there some number you are looking for? Do you want a 50-50 mix? Do you want that each game, or are you okay with us running the ball against teams that don't stop the run too well, and passing it against teams that don't stop the pass too well?"
Owner, "The later. That sounds good."
Coach, "What if we play more teams that stop the run well, but not the pass? Does that mean we can pass more over the length of the season?"
Owner, "Sure."
Coach, "What if that means that we pass it just as much as we did last year?"
Owmer, "Don't argue with me. We run the ball here damn it."

That post is pure garbage and you know it... quit playing dumb here

TDSteeler
01-15-2010, 08:19 AM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.



I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:


Right, Like Rooney is going to come out and say to a reporter, "Hey, I wanted to fire Bruce's Butt but decided to back off at the urging of MT and Ben."

Texasteel
01-15-2010, 08:24 AM
Right, Like Rooney is going to come out and say to a reporter, "Hey, I wanted to fire Bruce's Butt but decided to back off at the urging of MT and Ben."

This thing has gone way to far when some here start calling the Rooney's lier's, or at least imply they are.

TDSteeler
01-15-2010, 08:30 AM
This thing has gone way to far when some here start calling the Rooney's lier's, or at least imply they are.

I am not implying he is a liar. I am just saying sometimes you can't say what you want. If he says he wants him out, BA can't really do his job can he?

Steeldude
01-15-2010, 08:35 AM
and they agreed it will be a point of emphasis heading into the 2010 season

i'll believe it when i see it.

Gnutella
01-15-2010, 09:19 AM
This is a good problem to have. If we run the ball too much and only throw 20 to 25 times a game, we waste the talent of our QB. If we throw too much and only give the star RB a dozen carries per game, then we waste the talent of our RB.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-15-2010, 09:45 AM
Hasnt anybody told Dan Rooney that..............."these aint your fathers Steelers" "this is a passing league now", "the Steelers are a pass first team".

Owners own and coaches coach, I expect more of the same passing on 3rd and short next season because that is how this offense has been built.

CanadianSteel
01-15-2010, 09:49 AM
The NFL is becomign a more pass happy league and we need to stay with the trend to keep the passing game sharp. I think like someoe else said its about balance but also being able to run when you need to run, like when its 3rd and 1 or you are milking a lead in the 4th quater etc...

For instance I still dont know why we dont run out of the shotgun formation more often, specially on 3rd and 2 or less. With the defence spread out, this is a vrey high percventage run that we don not seem to employ very often. I remeber seeing it in the Baltimore or Miami game once on thrid and 1 and we actually picked up the fiorst down and I was thinking where has that been all year.....

vrabinec
01-15-2010, 09:54 AM
The NFL is becomign a more pass happy league and we need to stay with the trend to keep the passing game sharp. I think like someoe else said its about balance but also being able to run when you need to run, like when its 3rd and 1 or you are milking a lead in the 4th quater etc...

For instance I still dont know why we dont run out of the shotgun formation more often, specially on 3rd and 2 or less. With the defence spread out, this is a vrey high percventage run that we don not seem to employ very often. I remeber seeing it in the Baltimore or Miami game once on thrid and 1 and we actually picked up the fiorst down and I was thinking where has that been all year.....

I like how the Cowboys run out of the shotgun, with those draw plays that let the o-line get into their blocks. I'd like to see us do a bunch of that next year.

CanadianSteel
01-15-2010, 09:56 AM
I like how the Cowboys run out of the shotgun, with those draw plays that let the o-line get into their blocks. I'd like to see us do a bunch of that next year.

Yep were on the same page.... as its frutsrating watching this play as a staple of many good offences in the league on 3rd and short...

fansince'76
01-15-2010, 09:59 AM
I am not implying he is a liar. I am just saying sometimes you can't say what you want. If he says he wants him out, BA can't really do his job can he?

Likewise, you can't believe every media rumor you read.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:04 AM
Yeah, I'm sure MT and BA are going to go against the wishes of the guy who signs their checks.

If Art Rooney II says to run the ball more, you can bet your ass it is going to happen. Otherwise, heads will roll. Plus, Art II plain as day said that he thought the OL was the reason why they could not run the ball effectively when they had to, something that has been said on this board numerous times. So out goes Zierlein, in comes Kugler. I'm hoping Kugler can get the OL to improve their run blocking, so that we can run when we need to. At the same time, I do not want to see Ben's talents wasted by being nothing more than a turnstile. I still want to see him throwing the ball 25-30 times a game and utilizing all of the weapons he has at his disposal. I'm sure Mr. Rooney would agree with that as well.



He sure didn't show that "contempt" back in 2007, when the Steelers not only led the league in rushing, but were at or near the top in rushing attempts. So he has shown in the past that he is willing to commit to the run. Of course, that never even enters the equation with those who constantly criticize him...instead, they get selective amnesia.



That's OK, there will just be another excuse or they'll just flat-out call Mr. Rooney a liar, because after all, Jim Wexell, Lance Zierlein and Ken Laird just can't be wrong! :chuckle:

So I'm taking it that Wexall will be getting his pink slip for Steelers Digest any day now?

I'm just sure Art II gave Bouchette full disclosure of everything that was said behind closed doors.

:coffee:

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Likewise, you can't believe every media rumor you read.


I can beleive the Rooney's could see to it that Wexall was dismissed from Steelers Digest if he was fabricating what he wrote concerning the Rooney's thoughts on Arians.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:09 AM
This thing has gone way to far when some here start calling the Rooney's lier's, or at least imply they are.

There's a big difference between calling someone a liar and saying they aren't divulging the full truth of the matter.

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 10:13 AM
So I'm taking it that Wexall will be getting his pink slip for Steelers Digest any day now?

I'm just sure Art II gave Bouchette full disclosure of everything that was said behind closed doors.

:coffee:

Yep, just as I predicted. Art II lied through his teeth, so therefore Wexell was absolutely correct that Arians was going to be fired. What does Mr. Rooney know anyway? He's just the PRESIDENT OF THE FRANCHISE.

:coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-15-2010, 10:16 AM
Man.....so we are back to arguing who in the media is more credible???

Look folks, it looks like it rolled out this way:

-Arians wasnt sure about his standing and may have said something to that effect, then Ken Laird of ESPN 1250 runs a story without confirming it from other sources(maybe he has no sources)
-The TV station reports that Ken Laird reports Arians is on the way out.
-Jim Wexell tries to confirm, gets 1 player saying its true and 3 front office sources saying they have no confirmation
-PG reports that Ken Laird of ESPN said Arians is going to be fired, but has no confirmed sources.

It was pretty apparent that Ken Laird pulled a bush leage mistake by not getting confirmation from anybody of prominance. The rest of the legit media tried to get confirmation and could not, so they pretty much referenced Ken Laird in all of their reports and hung the guy out to dry for his mistake.

I mean, how many times do you see a media outlet reference a competitive source for "scooping" them on a story?? Did the PG say that "Michael Lombardi of NFL.com reports Larry Zeirline will be fired"? No.

I am skeptical of twitter, facebook, blogs and any other outlet that common fans have access to and can write crap, but when used by credible media members such as Adam Schefter, Jim Wexell, etc. I think it just gets the news out faster, but doesnt read well like a good column.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:16 AM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.



I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:

Gee I thought anyone with half a football brain, that had any position of authority inside the Steelers orginization thought Bruce was doing a super wonderfull terrific kind of job? :tt: Looks like Art is more or less demanding a 180 degree turn in offensive philsophy to me. :noidea:

Maybe I wouldn't be so quick to gloat if I was in that camp after all? :coffee:

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:17 AM
Yep, just as I predicted. Art II lied through his teeth, so therefore Wexell was absolutely correct that Arians was going to be fired. What does Mr. Rooney know anyway? He's just the PRESIDENT OF THE FRANCHISE.

:coffee:

Where did I say he lied? I don't think there's any absolutes about it. And Wexall never reported Arains would be fired :coffee:

Texasteel
01-15-2010, 10:18 AM
I am not implying he is a liar. I am just saying sometimes you can't say what you want. If he says he wants him out, BA can't really do his job can he?

So you were saying that Rooney may have secretly wanted to fire BA but didn't actually tell Mike that. Still a bit of a reach, I think, but thats fine.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

revefsreleets
01-15-2010, 10:26 AM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.



I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:


I'm not even going to read the rest of this thread...this says it all. Rooney DID NOT want Arians fired, and Wexell was wrong....again.

Those of us who SAID THIS were told WE were flat-out wrong. Based on..............nothing.:blah::blah::blah:

But I'm sure there are several conspiracy theories afloat....MUCH easier than just manning up and admitting that a certain faction of this board has been found wanting and on the wrong side of the facts yet again.

Texasteel
01-15-2010, 10:27 AM
So I'm taking it that Wexall will be getting his pink slip for Steelers Digest any day now?

I'm just sure Art II gave Bouchette full disclosure of everything that was said behind closed doors.

:coffee:

Actually I think it would be a huge public relations mistake to get Wexall fire whether the story was true or not.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:28 AM
So you were saying that Rooney may have secretly wanted to fire BA but didn't actually tell Mike that. Still a bit of a reach, I think, but thats fine.

Sorry I misunderstood you.

I'm guessing he was strongly dissatisfied with Arains job performance and said so in no uncertain terms. In what words and to whom I can only guess. :noidea:

All I do know is that if Wexall indeed fabricated what he wrote on a matter this important he'll soon be shown the exit door at Steelers Digest.

Until that day arrives I'll continue to believe that Wexall reported truthfully.

But regardless Art III has in fact now gone on record and made it abunduntly clear that he wasn't pleased with the offensive direction of this team in 2009. If you don't see that as a reflection on his thoughts concerning Arians job performance we'll have to respectfully disagree. :coffee:

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Gee I thought anyone with half a football brain, that had any position of authority inside the Steelers orginization thought Bruce was doing a super wonderfull terrific kind of job? :tt: Looks like Art is more or less demanding a 180 degree turn in offensive philsophy to me. :noidea:

Maybe I wouldn't be so quick to gloat if I was in that camp after all? :coffee:

Actually, he's not. He said that he is happy with the success they've had under Arians, but wants the team to be able to run the ball more effectively and consistently when they need to run it, likely meaning in the 2nd half when you have the lead and in the red zone. Who DOESN'T want that? I wouldn't exactly call that "demanding a 180 degree turn in philosophy."

Where did I say he lied? I don't think there's any absolutes about it. And Wexall never reported Arains would be fired :coffee:

Oh I don't know...maybe saying that Mr. Rooney "didn't divulge the entire truth?" Meaning, he lied. And you're correct - Wexell didn't report that Arians would be fired, but that the Rooneys weren't happy with Arians and wanted him fired. It looks like he was dead wrong about that. You can choose to believe a sports reporter, that's fine...I choose to believe the man in charge of the organization. He has more credibility, not to mention a reputation to uphold. I doubt very seriously he would jeopardize his credibility and reputation by lying (sorry, being "less than truthful") to Ed Bouchette.

Texasteel
01-15-2010, 10:31 AM
There's a big difference between calling someone a liar and saying they aren't divulging the full truth of the matter.

Rooney did say that he did not say to fire BA, but to be honest he did not say it was not discussed.

I still will not take an unsubstantiated report as gospel, plan and simple.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:32 AM
Actually I think it would be a huge public relations mistake to get Wexall fire whether the story was true or not.

Why? People get fired all the time for adverse opinions and falsehoods they put on their facebook pages about their employers. If Wexall just made it up, attributed opinions to you that didn't exist, wouldn't you at the very least demand a printed apology and or retraction? It's not like this was a trivial matter.

zulater
01-15-2010, 10:41 AM
Actually, he's not. He said that he is happy with the success they've had under Arians, but wants the team to be able to run the ball more effectively and consistently when they need to run it, likely meaning in the 2nd half when you have the lead and in the red zone. Who DOESN'T want that? I wouldn't exactly call that "demanding a 180 degree turn in philosophy."

I think he was just being subte, polite and guarded in his words. But I'm reading between the lines that he wasn't overwhelmed by Arians.



Oh I don't know...maybe saying that Mr. Rooney "didn't divulge the entire truth?" Meaning, he lied.

No one tells the whole truth all the time. I'm just saying he might have ommited the ugly parts.


And you're correct - Wexell didn't report that Arians would be fired, but that the Rooneys weren't happy with Arians and wanted him fired.

Wanted him "out."

It looks like he was dead wrong about that.

How so? He might have wanted him out on Monday, but cooled down by Tuesday, talked to his coach, and decided to retain him? I'm just saying there wasn't anything cut and dried about this decision until it was finalized. In other words no big rubber stamp was there for bruce.

You can choose to believe a sports reporter, that's fine...I choose to believe the man in charge of the organization. He has more credibility, not to mention a reputation to uphold. I doubt very seriously he would jeopardize his credibility and reputation by lying (sorry, being "less than truthful") to Ed Bouchette.

I believe both. Tell ya how and why later.

Later folks Gotta work now :wave:

Texasteel
01-15-2010, 10:42 AM
Why? People get fired all the time for adverse opinions and falsehoods they put on their facebook pages about their employers. If Wexall just made it up, attributed opinions to you that didn't exist, wouldn't you at the very least demand a printed apology and or retraction? It's not like this was a trivial matter.

If the organization goes after Wexall, many people, several here, will be saying that there must be something to the story since Rooney is trying to shut him up. It doesn't matter if Wexall was right, wrong, or just got bad information. In the public eye perception is extremely important.

revefsreleets
01-15-2010, 10:44 AM
Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is almost always the correct one.

Either there's some big conspiracy where the Rooney's were making all these secret plots and letting some reporters in (but not others), or the reporters simply made some shit up based on THEIR UNDERSTANDING of the situation and got caught, which in turn made some people around here look really stupid in the process.

But rather than just back down and admit the egg on their face, these people want to clamor on and split hairs and worm their way out of things.

Fail.

Atranox
01-15-2010, 11:01 AM
Anybody expecting anything but a pass-first offense is going to be very disappointed over the next few years. I don't really see the need for an offense that needs run the ball a lot just "because that's how we do it here". We had the best power running back in the league for years in Bettis, and never won a single Super Bowl when he was the starter. If a power running game with Jerome Bettis combined with a top-5 defense can't win you a Super Bowl, then guess what - the philosophy doesn't work for winning the big game. It's consistent, but it can't it can't keep up with high-scoring offenses.

When you have Ben, Ward, Holmes, Miller, and Wallace - you pass the ball. And you pass it a lot. Anything else would be a matter of changing your philosophy just for the sake of changing it.

That's not to say that you go 5-wide on 3 & 1. Undoubtedly, there were situations were we need to run the ball where we passed. Short-yardage and some goalline situations are running downs. I can care less in we go 70/30 in favor of the pass - as long as we put up points and run the ball on necessary downs.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah, despite what Rooney says he wants....the coaches will probably do what they do and that is throw the football more. Gonna be one hell of an interesting season.

revefsreleets
01-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Nothing wrong with 60/40....that's right in line with the rest of the league...I think this is much more about salting away games by grinding out some tough yards and eating clock rather than risking quick 3 and outs. You can still accomplish that and toss the ball 60% of the time.

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 12:03 PM
I think he was just being subte, polite and guarded in his words. But I'm reading between the lines that he wasn't overwhelmed by Arians.

Maybe so. But he didn't say he was underwhelmed either. Again, he said he was happy with the overall success under BA, but wanted a more efficient rushing attack. I take that at face value - no reading between the lines.

No one tells the whole truth all the time. I'm just saying he might have ommited the ugly parts.

Possibly. Mr. Rooney is no Jerry Jones, after all. But do we know for sure that he did? No. He could have just stayed silent on the issue, or dodged the question entirely. That would have been more damning to Arians' status within the organization, IMO.

Wanted him "out."

Out = fired.

How so? He might have wanted him out on Monday, but cooled down by Tuesday, talked to his coach, and decided to retain him? I'm just saying there wasn't anything cut and dried about this decision until it was finalized. In other words no big rubber stamp was there for bruce.

Really? Well, you and many others on here sure were ready to jump on the "Bruce is gone" train when it was first "reported." There was no thought that maybe it wasn't cut and dried - Laird reported he was gone, Wexell said the Rooneys wanted him out, and that was that. And anyone who disagreed was immediately shot down. Now that Arians has been retained and Mr. Rooney comes out and and says that the rumors of he and the rest of the brass were unhappy with Arians were false, all of a sudden "the decision wasn't cut and dried."

I believe both. Tell ya how and why later.

I'd like to hear this one.

HometownGal
01-15-2010, 12:19 PM
You can choose to believe a sports reporter, that's fine...I choose to believe the man in charge of the organization. He has more credibility, not to mention a reputation to uphold. I doubt very seriously he would jeopardize his credibility and reputation by lying (sorry, being "less than truthful") to Ed Bouchette.

Hater guru. :chuckle:

A-freakin-MEN. When are these conspiracy theorists going to stop with the nonsense, take what Art II said at face value, and move on???? :banging: BA is here to stay for the 2010 season whether they like it or not. Laird was wrong. Wexell was wrong. Get the hell over it. :banging::banging:

P.S. I worked on the other side of Art II for many years during my legal career and I can guarantee you 100% that he pulls no punches. If he wanted BA gone, he definitely would have been gone. No ifs, ands or buts.

MACH1
01-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.
:

I'd pay Ben $102 mil to hand it off all day if we could run the ball on a consistent basis. It's not how much a guy is payed to play, it's about getting wins using whatever means necessary. Yes, Ben is an elite qb and if we can run the ball when we want to or need too I think it would help extend his career somewhat not taking hits. The play action would work wonders. Keep other teams D guessing what we're doing and not telegraph it.

I'm not saying 3yds and a cloud of dust, but if we need to we should be able to do it. IMO

HometownGal
01-15-2010, 12:23 PM
Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is almost always the correct one.

Either there's some big conspiracy where the Rooney's were making all these secret plots and letting some reporters in (but not others), or the reporters simply made some shit up based on THEIR UNDERSTANDING of the situation and got caught, which in turn made some people around here look really stupid in the process.

But rather than just back down and admit the egg on their face, these people want to clamor on and split hairs and worm their way out of things.

Fail.

Exactly.

Art II clearly states that he liked what BA has done with the O BUT that he wanted to see more of a running game incorporated into the game plan, which I don't disagree with. There is no reading between the lines for God's sake. :rolleyes:

Once again for those who missed it the first time around:

Mike was comfortable that we needed to make some changes, but that wasn't a change we need to make. And I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think we've had good success under Bruce.

HometownGal
01-15-2010, 12:27 PM
It's not how much a guy is payed to play, it's about getting wins using whatever means necessary.

That is EXACTLY what BA, Ben and the O did this season. They did what was asked of them offensively only to sit helplessly on the sidelines and watch the leads they had secured squandered away by the D. :banging:

Dino 6 Rings
01-15-2010, 12:32 PM
Here it is folks

Steelers finished the Year with the # 3 Rushing Defense, the # 16 Passing Defense and the #5 Defense over all for yards allowed per game and # 12 in total scoring and # 12 in points allowed per game. Also we finished with with only 12 Ints all season, ranked #25 in the league. We tied for # 16 in Fumbles Recovered with 10. Total Turnovers gained, 22.

Steelers finished the year with the # 9 Passing Offense the #19 Rushing Offense and the #7 Offense in yards per game but were #12 for total points and # 12 in points scored per game. We threw a total of 14 Ints and fumbled a total of 11 times. That's 25. We ended the season at -3 in the Turnover Game.

So here is what we need to do.

Maintain our Passing Attack, while beefing up our Rushing Game.

Maintain our Rush Defense, while beefing up our Pass Defense.

Generate More Turnovers on Defense, and Give Up Less turnovers on Offense.

Also Special Teams. We allowed 4 KO Returns for Touchdowns getting 0 ourselves. We need much better coverage on Both Kickoff and Punt teams and must figure out a way to generate Scores on Special teams.

This season was not a "one coach" or "one player" failure. It was a systematic Failure of mutliple areas all coming together in the perfect storm to allow a 5 game losing streak which prevented us from making the playoffs and earning our AFC North Title.

steelreserve
01-15-2010, 12:38 PM
I honestly don't give a shit whether we run more or pass more, as long as we CALL PLAYS THAT MAKE SENSE. If the running game isn't working, guess what? Maybe you should pass more. If Ben is having a shitty game like against the Bengals or Browns, maybe you should run more, rocket scientist.

Getting rid of Parker Up The Middle already did wonders to improve the effectiveness of our running game, but yeah, it still seems like we're almost afraid to run the ball in certain situations.

And I also don't like how we seem to give away what we're doing such a high percentage of the time. I don't just mean the "five wide on third-and-1" that everybody loves to bitch about. I also mean when it's second-and-5 after a typical running play, and we line up in a formation with one running back and one receiver. Gee, I wonder what's coming next? Everything becomes less effective when you decide to run a plain vanilla offense and say "OK, we'll just line up and try to beat you straight-up."

Anyway ... adjustments. Learn how to make 'em. That's all we're talking about here.

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 12:58 PM
so did i miss the part where rooney says we need to blitz more and lebeau has to make changes, and better adjustments with the talent he has, and we are not defending the superbowl title because of his defense?

is he a hypocrite for not being critical of lebeau? or does he just recognize the bigger problem is that we didnt make the most of our offense?

vrabinec
01-15-2010, 01:16 PM
I honestly don't give a shit whether we run more or pass more, as long as we CALL PLAYS THAT MAKE SENSE. .

Exactly

Steelboy84
01-15-2010, 01:49 PM
A healthy, consistent offensive line is needed for a solid running game.

xbroughneck
01-15-2010, 02:34 PM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.


Kordell Stewart says "that's not true HTG".:drink:

It's not just about calling more run plays either. Hell, Arians could call 40 run plays from a 3 tight end set and noone but Mendy in the backfield and I'd be pissed. It's not just about what you call (run or pass). It's about when you call the which play.

And the main reason I want the Steelers to embrace the run more...

I'd bet both Mr. Rooney AND Mike T. would say that offensively the Steelers are a soft football team. No fullback, no commitment to run, having Matt Spaeth in to block on run and pass plays...Hell, if Hines didn't block so well we'd really be considered pansies on that side of the ball.

I'm glad that the hirer ups aren't leaving it to Bruce Arians and Big Ben to define the Steelers identity.

I want a good QB as a component to a good offensive football team. When it's 3rd and more than 5 I want to feel confident that we have a QB that can get that extra 5 yards a majority of the time.

Mat Malone, Bubby Brister, Mike Tomzak, Kordell Stewart...(those monkeys that were in the Steelers older run first offenses) couldn't do it. Neil O'Donnell could, but he had his own issues as well.

Just because we have the best QB since Terry Bradshaw hiking the ball, it shouldn't mean we have to throw it more than we run it. It should mean that other teams fear that we can run it, AND they fear what Ben will do if the gear up to stop the run.

Right now, if they gear up to stop the PASS, they aren't afraid of us running on them, and that is the problem.

IMHO

Yes, I want balance, but balance won't get the Steelers identity back. I don't want them to be the Patriots OR the Colts. I want them to be the Steelers.

xbroughneck
01-15-2010, 02:44 PM
Nothing wrong with 60/40....that's right in line with the rest of the league...I think this is much more about salting away games by grinding out some tough yards and eating clock rather than risking quick 3 and outs. You can still accomplish that and toss the ball 60% of the time.

I think it's more about understanding situational playcalling. If they'd done that in the Browns game the Steelers would still be playing.

And situational playcalling is a problem Arians has had for at least the past 3 years. He's BAD at it. Ben's best plays are when he improvises, or when a play breaks down, or when the Steelers go no huddle. Unless the offense is playing a below average defense they tend to stutter (see Minnesota game, Raven game at home).

Prok
01-15-2010, 03:58 PM
I think that most fans frustrations stem from BA's downright stupid and arrogant play-calling at times. Not just that he won't run the ball enough.

I was in favor of the no-huddle much of last year because in my eyes that's the only way our offense looked fluid and somewhat consistant under Bruce. Ppl will say that we can't run no-huddle all the time but I believe this offense could have ran it a ton more than they did and that would have helped.

It still does not dismiss a D that couldn't hold a lead to save their lives though.

Prok
01-15-2010, 04:01 PM
I think it's more about understanding situational playcalling. If they'd done that in the Browns game the Steelers would still be playing.

And situational playcalling is a problem Arians has had for at least the past 3 years. He's BAD at it. Ben's best plays are when he improvises, or when a play breaks down, or when the Steelers go no huddle. Unless the offense is playing a below average defense they tend to stutter (see Minnesota game, Raven game at home).

Hammer meets nail.

:drink:

revefsreleets
01-15-2010, 05:26 PM
Again, since Ben calls a lot of the plays, where, exactly, does the blame TRULY lie?

groundhogday
01-15-2010, 06:21 PM
The Man has spoken! Why is anyone surprised. When Tomlin was first hired his opening speeches were about playing tough hard nosed football and winning by attrition, etc. That's always been the Steeler way. So when Rooney see's the Steelers going empty set on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 1 I'm sure it's disturbing to him. It was to me. At the end of the day more emphasis on the run will more balance and more oportunity.

Didn't some coach say "stats are for losers...Final Score is for winners!" I'm sure Rooney believes that too.

Can't wait to see us get physical on offense.

devilsdancefloor
01-15-2010, 06:51 PM
The Man has spoken! Why is anyone surprised. When Tomlin was first hired his opening speeches were about playing tough hard nosed football and winning by attrition, etc. That's always been the Steeler way. So when Rooney see's the Steelers going empty set on 2nd and 3 or 3rd and 1 I'm sure it's disturbing to him. It was to me. At the end of the day more emphasis on the run will more balance and more oportunity.

Didn't some coach say "stats are for losers...Final Score is for winners!" I'm sure Rooney believes that too.

Can't wait to see us get physical on offense.

i agree we need to get physical not only on offense but on defense as well. we slipped in that department as well and if exposed out secondary. But i have faith in everyone to get the job done. But if Art Rooney II says he wants to RUN more i am sure they will RUN more. He seems to be more hard nosed on the business side of things adn if he isnt getting what he wants i can see him getting rid of whomever

Curtain_of_Steel
01-15-2010, 07:17 PM
Well I have read this a couple times now and fail to see where it says "Rooney II wants Steelers to run the ball more" a side from the headline of course.
The body states clearly:
1) "I think Mike and I certainly agreed coming off the season that we need to run the ball more consistently to get to where we want to get to,"
2) "So that's part of the thinking in the offseason: We need to figure out how to get better running the football."
3) "We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season,"

This is effective running.
Maximizing output when we do run.

No place does it say we need to run more. Although common sense says, if we effectively run the ball better, we do not have to pass as much.
However if the defence was swiss cheese this year and we were playing from behind a lot, we would not be passing the entire 4th quarter of most games.

How about a headline like this:
Steelers intend on adding depth this year on defense and getting rid of the dead weight.

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 07:22 PM
If Art Rooney II says to run the ball more, you can bet your ass it is going to happen. Otherwise, heads will roll. Plus, Art II plain as day said that he thought the OL was the reason why they could not run the ball effectively when they had to, something that has been said on this board numerous times. :

do you have a link to this alternative article you have read or are you just reading in between the lines (something you and others have admonished people for doing)?

artII is not a coach, not a scout, and most certainly not a quality control intern. how would he know if the o-line could block vs. the browns when they only tried to run 12 times? i would almost guarantee he never said anything this retarded. infact, i would contend the exact opposite. he laid culpability on the coaches (and not necessarily larry z).

"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season," he said.

That is one reason, he said, they changed offensive line coaches. Mike Tomlin hired Sean Kugler, who most recently served with the Buffalo Bills, to replace the fired Larry Zierlein, although Rooney said that "there's no one person you can put it on."what is plain as day with this statement, is that while larry z was the sacrificial lamb, rooney will not accept him alone being the scapegoat. otherwise, he would not had a nice little sit-down with tomlin over tea and crepes, and insisted he relay his message to arians with a kumbaya filled sit-down themselves.

seriously, if he thinks the o-line is to blame, why is he handing them multi-million dollar contracts and writing them checks every week? in fact, i cant ever recall art II giving any scouting report on any of his players, plus the o-line can be fired at any time with no financial penalty whatsoever, if they were the culprit.

MasterOfPuppets
01-15-2010, 07:32 PM
i wonder how many people here actually believed cowher in 06 when he denied rumors of leaving the steelers.....: obviously the rumors were false since cowher said so....:noidea:

while i don't think rooney told tomlin to fire arians...or obviously he'd be gone...i do think the option was a strong talking point at the meeting. obviously rooney wasn't nearly as impressed with the record setting offensive performance as was some of the people here who use it to defend BA.

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 07:35 PM
i think most people were too busy blaming and scapegoating cowher for the steelers missing the playoffs a year after a sb win, which obviously means tomlin had 'carolina on his mind" in '09.

groundhogday
01-15-2010, 07:45 PM
What are the odds we go OL in Round 1 after Rooney says we need to run the ball more effectively?

MasterOfPuppets
01-15-2010, 07:53 PM
What are the odds we go OL in Round 1 after Rooney says we need to run the ball more effectively?
well if they expect the running game to magically appear, that would be a good place to start...:noidea:

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 08:01 PM
well if they expect the running game to magically appear, that would be a good place to start...:noidea:i thought in cleveland in december woulda been a better place to start (and i dont care what anybody says, so does the boss rooney).

seriously, does anyone think we woulda ran more even with an all pro line? an all pro-line to our current offense means to pass even more. after all we dont pay ben $102 mil to hand off the ball (as has been pointed out). appearantly nobody wants to see our qb go to waste, by running more (except the boss rooney, and certain members of the nation who have been questioning the play calls all season).

Prok
01-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Just a recommendation for Mr. Rooney.


Since you believe this is a contender with a very good core, spend some freakin' money in FA and get us OL, DL and secondary help !! :tt::tt:

Well we can't get ALL that taken care of in the draft can we ??

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 08:10 PM
do you have a link to this alternative article you have read or are you just reading in between the lines (something you and others have admonished people for doing)?

artII is not a coach, not a scout, and most certainly not a quality control intern. how would he know if the o-line could block vs. the browns when they only tried to run 12 times? i would almost guarantee he never said anything this retarded. infact, i would contend the exact opposite. he laid culpability on the coaches (and not necessarily larry z).
what is plain as day with this statement, is that while larry z was the sacrificial lamb, rooney will not accept him alone being the scapegoat. otherwise, he would not had a nice little sit-down with tomlin over tea and crepes, and insisted he relay his message to arians with a kumbaya filled sit-down themselves.

seriously, if he thinks the o-line is to blame, why is he handing them multi-million dollar contracts and writing them checks every week? in fact, i cant ever recall art II giving any scouting report on any of his players, plus the o-line can be fired at any time with no financial penalty whatsoever, if they were the culprit.

I should have said "A" reason, not "THE" reason. Misstatement on my part. And that's all I'm going to say.

Prok
01-15-2010, 08:13 PM
Again, since Ben calls a lot of the plays, where, exactly, does the blame TRULY lie?

Thats the thing I'd like to find out. Where did you hear that Ben calls alot of the plays?

I had thought he called the no-huddle package but that was it. :noidea:

HometownGal
01-15-2010, 08:44 PM
i thought in cleveland in december woulda been a better place to start (and i dont care what anybody says, so does the boss rooney).

seriously, does anyone think we woulda ran more even with an all pro line? an all pro-line to our current offense means to pass even more. after all we dont pay ben $102 mil to hand off the ball (as has been pointed out). appearantly nobody wants to see our qb go to waste, by running more (except the boss rooney, and certain members of the nation who have been questioning the play calls all season).

Tony - please knock it the hell off with the underhanded jabs. If you've got a problem with my thoughts, I have no problem whatsoever in going head to head with you. You should know that by now. :buttkick: :wink:

The boss Rooney is, for the most part, satisfied with BA's performance over the last 3 seasons by his own statement (but wants to see a little more of a running game which I don't disagree with him on) and once again, the talking turkeys were WRONG. Quit spinning the wheels, accept it and move on. :banging:

Shellshock
01-15-2010, 09:23 PM
Ownership should deal with the business end and coaches should handle the football end. Do we want an owner who likes to meddle with the football side?

urgle burgle
01-15-2010, 09:38 PM
well on a good note, all these wonderful and interesting issues and side notes will be answered next year.
starting with the draft through training camp to the season all these things will play out. makes everything a little more exciting, even though our little steelers have been too damn exciting the past two seasons on many occasions....

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 10:09 PM
Tony - please knock it the hell off with the underhanded jabs. If you've got a problem with my thoughts, I have no problem whatsoever in going head to head with you. You should know that by now. :buttkick: :wink:

The boss Rooney is, for the most part, satisfied with BA's performance over the last 3 seasons by his own statement (but wants to see a little more of a running game which I don't disagree with him on) and once again, the talking turkeys were WRONG. Quit spinning the wheels, accept it and move on. :banging:my post had absolutely nothing to do with you, so i dont know where you are getting any "underhanded jabs" from. :noidea:

my post is directed towards all those who fallaciously say that anyone who wants a more balanced offence wants a 90:10 run pass ratio, and piss away the talents of our franchise player.

art rooney is right, and by default, that makes me right. a 55:45 pass run ratio is probably more condusive to us winning more lombardis, compared to what we saw in '09. (im not gonna gloat about it though).

i eagerly await art rooney II to anounce bruce arians contract extension, so he isnt headed into a "lame duck" season as an assistant coach.

actually, scratch that. i am more eagerly awaiting tomlins extension cause he is trully a great coach, and i hope he doesnt sacrifice himself at the hands of an assistant who appears to be using him as a stepping stone.

that is my opinion and that is how i feel. (right or wrong, i dont think i have violated any rules with this post) :hunch:

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Tony - please knock it the hell off with the underhanded jabs. If you've got a problem with my thoughts, I have no problem whatsoever in going head to head with you. You should know that by now. :buttkick: :wink:

Nah, it's pretty obvious his post was directed at me, because after all, I am the one who said that I don't want the star QB of my favorite team handing the ball off 40 times per game, every game...and that many Steelers fans want exactly that. Whatever. It's my opinion, one that was actually formed by listening to people talk about the Steelers in my every day travels. He disagrees, fine.

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 10:36 PM
Nah, it's pretty obvious his post was directed at me, because after all, I am the one who said that I don't want the star QB of my favorite team handing the ball off 40 times per game, every game...and that many Steelers fans want exactly that. Whatever. It's my opinion, one that was actually formed by listening to people talk about the Steelers in my every day travels. He disagrees, fine.thanks for standing up XT. :drink:

i wasnt directing my post at anyone in particular as HTG had suspected. it was just my opinion formed by listening to the people i listen to talk in MY everyday "travels" (whether i be through cyberspace or the radio waves).

granted, you are a local and an ex-mod, and i would assume that has earned you and extra amount of "clout", but there are others here who think that anyone who wants a more balanced attack is asking for "cowherball" or a 65:35 run pass ratio.

that simply isnt the case and you and i both know that.

again, my post was all inclusive and wasnt directed at anyone in particular. i dont see the problem. :noidea:

msafford
01-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Can't we all just get along??? :chuckle:

http://30daysout.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/rodney2.jpg

X-Terminator
01-15-2010, 11:03 PM
thanks for standing up XT. :drink:

i wasnt directing my post at anyone in particular as HTG had suspected. it was just my opinion formed by listening to the people i listen to talk in MY everyday "travels" (whether i be through cyberspace or the radio waves).

granted, you are a local and an ex-mod, and i would assume that has earned you and extra amount of "clout", but there are others here who think that anyone who wants a more balanced attack is asking for "cowherball" or a 65:35 run pass ratio.

that simply isnt the case and you and i both know that.

again, my post was all inclusive and wasnt directed at anyone in particular. i dont see the problem. :noidea:

Being local and an ex-mod hasn't earned me a damn thing, and having "clout" on a MB means less than squat to me. Being a local, however, does give me a perspective that many people who don't live here don't understand or maybe not realize. Trust me, if I didn't hear fans longing for the return of "Cowherball" with my own ears, I would not have said anything about it. I have actually argued (well, maybe "forcefully but respectfully discussed" would be more appropriate) with a couple of fans over this very thing, and overheard it in many other instances. This was during the height of the Steelers' 5-game losing streak. So it isn't like I'm just going off half-c0cked without having a point of reference.

On the flip side, however, there are many more people who actually support BA than you would think. They are outnumbered by those who don't, but there are a lot of them. I've talked with a few of them as well in passing. Most of them agree that there needs to be more balance in the offense and don't just shrug off the problems that the O had, but they don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater either, and like the idea of a pass-first (NOT pass-heavy) offense. This is the stance that I and the other BA supporters here have taken.

zulater
01-15-2010, 11:11 PM
:Maybe so. But he didn't say he was underwhelmed either. Again, he said he was happy with the overall success under BA, but wanted a more efficient rushing attack. I take that at face value - no reading between the lines.

I think he knew he had to say something with all the rumors that have been flying around. And while i don't think he lied, I do think he just may have ommited a whole lot that went on behind closed doors.



Possibly. Mr. Rooney is no Jerry Jones, after all. But do we know for sure that he did? No. He could have just stayed silent on the issue, or dodged the question entirely. That would have been more damning to Arians' status within the organization, IMO.

I don't think he wants to "damn" the guy or weaken his position in anyway. Once the decision to retain him has been made you want to come off as supportive as possible.

Out = fired.

I believe there was some thought given to that possibility by at least one of the Rooney's. I believe those thoughts were at some point verbalized. When, and to whom I wouldn't begin to guess at? :noidea: But being familiar with Jim Wexall's work for a number of years I'm quite confident that he didn't just make it up. And being familiar with the Rooneys as I am, I don't think they would continue to allow Wexall to continue on in his present capacity at Steelers Digest were he making up that sort of story up.

I just don't think it's the sort of falsehood an employer could overlook were it in fact a lie.


Really? Well, you and many others on here sure were ready to jump on the "Bruce is gone" train when it was first "reported." There was no thought that maybe it wasn't cut and dried - Laird reported he was gone, Wexell said the Rooneys wanted him out, and that was that. And anyone who disagreed was immediately shot down.

I'm not shooting anyone down. I'm just explaining my position. Personally I don't think anyone on either side of the argument is exactly in a postion to gloat.

Now that Arians has been retained and Mr. Rooney comes out and and says that the rumors of he and the rest of the brass were unhappy with Arians were false, all of a sudden "the decision wasn't cut and dried."

Why would he say anything else? Since when have multi million dollar businesses felt it neccessary to operate with full transparecy? There's no value to anyone to kick the legs out from under Arians once the decision to go foward with him has been made.


I'd like to hear this one.

I don't expect you to agree with me on this one, or anything else for that matter. :chuckle: But regardless, I don't think Wexall lied. IMO he heard what he reported. And I think Art couched his answers in such a way that he never lied in any of his responces to Bouchette.

Purposely or not Bouchette didn't really pursue certain angles. I think more pointed questions could have been asked of Rooeny.

I.E. I would have asked why in his opinion those reporters made up those stories if they were in fact untrue? I would ask if he were disturbed that a lead writer for the official publication of the team claimed that he wanted his OC out? And if he planned to take any action against said writer if the story were indeed fabricated. If no, why not?

Anyway the fact those questions weren't evident suggests to me that Rooney's condition of access was that those sort of questions were off the table, or that Douchette had no interest in letting his fellow reporters off the hook.

MasterOfPuppets
01-15-2010, 11:26 PM
i would have asked him if firing arians was ever considered an option ....:noidea: ... if HE wanted BA gone he'd be gone ... i'd say he probably left BA's future in tomlins hands with the stipulation that they will alter thier aproach and game planning.

tony hipchest
01-15-2010, 11:46 PM
i would have asked him if firing arians was ever considered an option ....:noidea: ... .hater.

would you please rephrase your answer into the form of a loaded question?

BlockMonsta
01-15-2010, 11:49 PM
Sure hope thats the casse, but not running things like qb draws on what was it 3 and 4 against the Jags back in 07? A conversion that would have let us run the clock out..

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 12:24 AM
I should have said "A" reason, not "THE" reason. Misstatement on my part. And that's all I'm going to say.so you are not gonna provide a link to back up this statement?-

Plus, Art II plain as day said that he thought the OL was the reason why they could not run the ball effectively when they had to,

it is a pretty profound statement that alters many things (like the upcoming draft), but i cannot find anything to support it.

maybe i am just clueless and in the dark, not being a local naitive and all. :noidea: i am not privey to the local news (disclaimer- in no way am i suggesting any media should be trusted).

BozMan
01-16-2010, 12:35 AM
WRT running the ball, I like what Trent Dilfer said recently (paraphrasing): Even a pass-oriented team has to be able to run the ball in 3 situations:
(1) 3rd-and-short,
(2) red zone,
(3) 4th quarter with a lead.

For at least 2 seasons now, being able to reliably run the ball in those situations has been a problem. There is plenty of blame to go around. Colbert and the FO have neglected the OL for too long. Arians, and by extension, Tomlin, have installed schemes and philosophy not conducive to running -- no fullback, 5 wide on 3rd and short or red zone. Olinemen and RBs have often failed to execute in critical situations. But one could also say too often the coaches did not give them enough opportunities.

HometownGal
01-16-2010, 05:56 AM
my post had absolutely nothing to do with you, so i dont know where you are getting any "underhanded jabs" from. :noidea:

My post from Page 1 of this very thread:

Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.


I have been saying this for quite a while. XT and I were talking on the way to a Pens game not too long ago and I said the exact same thing to him. He "borrowed" my statement.

my post is directed towards all those who fallaciously say that anyone who wants a more balanced offence wants a 90:10 run pass ratio, and piss away the talents of our franchise player.

If you actually go back and read some of the posts around here since this ruckus began, I don't think your statement above is too far off the mark.

art rooney is right, and by default, that makes me right. a 55:45 pass run ratio is probably more condusive to us winning more lombardis, compared to what we saw in '09. (im not gonna gloat about it though).

I don't totally disagree with that ratio (though I would prefer it at 60:40 pass with all of the weapons Ben has) and would love to see the Steelers run the ball a little more than they did last season to balance out the offense more. (See - we do agree on something :drink:). However, I still believe a secondary that doesn't look like swiss cheese and blow leads is just as condusive, if not more, to us getting into the playoffs. I know, I know - Troy, Aaron, Aaron, Troy, but just as Coach T doesn't believe their absence was totally responsible for the abysmal play of the rest of the D squad this season, neither do I. Last I knew, Troy and Aaron don't play all 11 positions in that unit.

i eagerly await art rooney II to anounce bruce arians contract extension, so he isnt headed into a "lame duck" season as an assistant coach.

He made a public statement to the effect that he is pleased with what BA has accomplished here but would like to see the running game incorporated more. I didn't take his statement to be a "slam" against BA or a "warning". Overall, he clearly stated that BA's alleged "firing" was never even a thought and coming from Art II who pulls absolutely no punches - I take his word for it. If BA isn't offered a contract extension at the end of next season, then so be it. Life will go on for BA, the Pittsburgh Steelers and us.

actually, scratch that. i am more eagerly awaiting tomlins extension cause he is trully a great coach, and i hope he doesnt sacrifice himself at the hands of an assistant who appears to be using him as a stepping stone.

Nonsense and that's about all I can say about that statement. :shake02:

that is my opinion and that is how i feel. (right or wrong, i dont think i have violated any rules with this post) :hunch:

I respect your opinion and hopefully, you respect mine as well. For the last time, no one has ever or will ever be shown the door because of a differing opinion, as long as it is presented respectfully, as yours was.

X-Terminator
01-16-2010, 07:55 AM
so you are not gonna provide a link to back up this statement?-



it is a pretty profound statement that alters many things (like the upcoming draft), but i cannot find anything to support it.

maybe i am just clueless and in the dark, not being a local naitive and all. :noidea: i am not privey to the local news (disclaimer- in no way am i suggesting any media should be trusted).

From the article:

"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season," he said.

That is one reason, he said, they changed offensive line coaches. Mike Tomlin hired Sean Kugler, who most recently served with the Buffalo Bills, to replace the fired Larry Zierlein, although Rooney said that "there's no one person you can put it on."

Now if Mr. Rooney says that they have to get back to being able to run the ball when they need to, AND he said that was one reason why they changed OL coaches, then evidently he felt the OL, or more importantly, the OL's performance, was part of the problem. So where was I wrong in my statement, other than using "THE reason" instead of "A reason?"

Texasteel
01-16-2010, 08:10 AM
:

I don't expect you to agree with me on this one, or anything else for that matter. :chuckle: But regardless, I don't think Wexall lied. IMO he heard what he reported. And I think Art couched his answers in such a way that he never lied in any of his responces to Bouchette.

Purposely or not Bouchette didn't really pursue certain angles. I think more pointed questions could have been asked of Rooeny.

I.E. I would have asked why in his opinion those reporters made up those stories if they were in fact untrue? I would ask if he were disturbed that a lead writer for the official publication of the team claimed that he wanted his OC out? And if he planned to take any action against said writer if the story were indeed fabricated. If no, why not?

Anyway the fact those questions weren't evident suggests to me that Rooney's condition of access was that those sort of questions were off the table, or that Douchette had no interest in letting his fellow reporters off the hook.

I for one have never stated that Wexall lied, just that I do not take his story as gospel.

You and I will never agree on this, but I do respect your right to your own opinion. Hopefully you will respect mine as well.

steelerdave1969
01-16-2010, 08:44 AM
You better believe this is going to make a lot of people happy. Does he mean it? We'll see. Tomlin said a lot of things this past season and clearly didn't mean them. I'd have to say he lost some credibility.

When RushHard has 140 in the opener next season, the bulk of it in the second half, then I'll believe it.

I like the way Mr Rooney sounds in this and I really think he meant what he told coach Tomlin about wanting to run the ball more consistently especially late in games when we needed to run the clock out even to help our defense out some.

Prok
01-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Actually I was OK with us passing the ball to try and get first downs and protect the lead. Most recent example would be the Dolphins game when we had the ball at our own 2 and Ben converted some crucial plays to keep that drive going and kill clock.

My problem was with some of the horrific play-calling.

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 03:29 PM
So where was I wrong in my statement, other than using "THE reason" instead of "A reason?"everything about it was wrong-

Plus, Art II plain as day said that he thought the OL was the reason why they could not run the ball effectively when they had to,
not only did art NOT say that (plain as day) he didnt even come close to inferring that. he was talking about coaches, not players.

what do people not understand about the chain of command and the long standing "rooney way"?

it just kills me how people all of a sudden want to turn rooney into dan snyder, al davis, or jerry jones in their desperate defense of arians.

talk about crazy :screwy:

art II DOES NOT hire/fire assistant coaches, and he DOES NOT evaluate and speak publicly on players or their shortcomings. never has, never will. its not his job, and hes wise enough to not pretend that it is.

X-Terminator
01-16-2010, 04:14 PM
everything about it was wrong-

not only did art NOT say that (plain as day) he didnt even come close to inferring that. he was talking about coaches, not players.

what do people not understand about the chain of command and the long standing "rooney way"?

it just kills me how people all of a sudden want to turn rooney into dan snyder, al davis, or jerry jones in their desperate defense of arians.

talk about crazy :screwy:

art II DOES NOT hire/fire assistant coaches, and he DOES NOT evaluate and speak publicly on players or their shortcomings. never has, never will. its not his job, and hes wise enough to not pretend that it is.

I know damn well that the Rooneys don't hire/fire assistants nor evaluate talent, Tony. They leave that up to the coach. I'm not effing stupid, OK? But it says right there in the article that HE SAID they needed to get back to running the football effectively when they need to and that HE SAID that was one reason why they decided to change OL coaches. Do the math - if he agreed with the decision to fire the OL coach, then it stand to chance that the OL was part of the problem with the running game, does it not? If he really didn't say that, then why did Bouchette attribute those comments to him? I'm only going on the comments that were (apparently allegedly) attributed to him by Ed Bouchette.

And I admitted that I misspoke on that earlier comment. What the hell else do you want me to do, say 10 Hail Mary's, for crying out loud?

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 04:56 PM
But it says right there in the article that HE SAID they needed to get back to running the football effectively when they need to and that HE SAID that was one reason why they decided to change OL coaches. Do the math - if he agreed with the decision to fire the OL coach, then it stand to chance that the OL was part of the problem with the running game, does it not? XT, its time for you and others to do the math.

he agreed with the firing of the OL coach, but also stood up for him saying he was not the only one to blame. it stands to reason he was also blaming arians and tomlin.

after all, rooney didnt tell tomlin to sit down with larry z and tell him to sit down with the players and get it right.

he told tomlin to get it right. tomlin then had a nice long talk with arians (i dont even think rooney had to tell him to do so. i think it was understood.)

larry z was the scapegoat and rooney knows this. however larry z was not a very good coach and needed upgraded anyways (much like philly upgraded with bobby april even though their special teams were fine).

rooney knows he has the best run blocking wr in the entire league. he just extended him to ensure he would retire a steeler. rooney also knows he has the best run blocking tight end in the league, whom he just gave a huge contract too. rooney also knows he gave contract extensions to kemoeatu, starks, and hartwig. rooney also knows they spent a 1st round pick on a running back whose talent and drat status says he should get more than 10-15 carries a game.

sure ben is the $102 million dollar guy, but what about the investment in all these other players?

rooney saw this situation EXACTLY how the majority of us did all season, yet we were told we were wrong, because of rooney. rooney politely advising tomlin that he may be best served to pull arians ass out of his head, just reinforces that.

this has nothing to do with the talent, that colbert and his boss have assembled and paid.

im sure colbert doesnt have to be sat down with by the boss to know he needs to find some depth for troy, smith, and the rest of the defense.

arians should be embarrassed that he has been put on notice, and we all know what will happen if he doesnt get it right.

we were right. the arians supporters were wrong. all arians fans had their day, saying we all thought we knew better than the front office. the reality of the matter now is that we knew all along what the front office has recognized and acknowledged. the boss just waited until after the season to voice it and validate our opinions.

that is burning some people up, and i can see why they would be in full on spin mode right now.

in the meantime art II has shown great leadership and management skills along with faith in the people he has hired and pays handsomly. he has also shown the patience of his father and grandfather. many had concerns whether he would be able to do that. i cant believe people thought he would pull a knee jerk move and fire ariand mid season even if he were displeased (which he obviously, clear as day, was).

HometownGal
01-16-2010, 05:25 PM
OK folks. Enough is enough. We are getting absolutely nowhere with this discussion other than the obvious . . . .

The BA bashers were 100% DEAD WRONG and they can't man up and admit the same. Spin, speculate, create conspiracy theories :screwy:, spin some more. :willy:

For the bazillionth time . . . .

As for the many reports that the front office tried to get Tomlin to fire Arians, Rooney said, "Not true."

"I never went to Mike and said we have to fire Bruce," Rooney said. "Mike never came to me and said we have to keep Bruce under any circumstances. We talked about every member of the staff. Mike was comfortable that we needed to make some changes, but that wasn't a change we need to make. And I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think we've had good success under Bruce.

"There was never any tug of war, 'Let's fire Bruce' or anything like that. It's one of those things: There are certain positions that take the heat in any season that goes wrong and offensive coordinators are always fair game, and Bruce knows that."



Like it or not, BA is here to stay in 2010. Get over it. :banging:

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 05:48 PM
actually rooney came out and proved the arians supporters 100% DEAD WRONG. there was a problem all year long with arians playcalling (which the majority saw clear as day) and the arians supporters couldnt man up and admit it, although it was blatantly obvious.

atleast the bosses foot has finally been put down and we can hope that we are headed in a better direction. if not, the NNBAF's will have their wishes when the services of BA are no longer retained. :thumbsup:

MasterOfPuppets
01-16-2010, 06:01 PM
I think we've had good success under Bruce

but not quite good enough to talk about a contract extention... :chuckle:

SMR
01-16-2010, 06:26 PM
Guys, let's rest now and be thankful that there will be more running plays called.

Peace!
:thumbsup:

HometownGal
01-16-2010, 07:22 PM
actually rooney came out and proved the arians supporters 100% DEAD WRONG. there was a problem all year long with arians playcalling (which the majority saw clear as day) and the arians supporters couldnt man up and admit it, although it was blatantly obvious.

atleast the bosses foot has finally been put down and we can hope that we are headed in a better direction. if not, the NNBAF's will have their wishes when the services of BA are no longer retained. :thumbsup:

I think we've had good success under Bruce.


You were 100% DEAD WRONG and everyone here (except those who :bowdown: at the hipcheese altar) knows it. Sad that a person I once respected more than any other member of this board can't admit when he's been proven wrong by "the boss' '" own words. :shake02:

End of story.

but not quite good enough to talk about a contract extention...

Gee - wonder where Lebeau's contract extension is? :chuckle:

43Hitman
01-16-2010, 07:30 PM
Hey - I'm all for utilizing Mendy's talents and running the ball a little more for balance when the game dictates so. However, I feel Ben's talents have been showcased over the last couple of seasons and has put him into the Top 5 which is where most of us felt he could and would be. After all - the Steelers aren't paying $102 mil to Ben to have him simply hand off the ball 60-70% of the time. We could have hired a chimpanzee to do that if we were going to stay a run first team.



I hate to say I told you so, but . . . .





I told you so. :chuckle:

I thought you said you would delete posts if anyone said I told you so, when the rumor first came out that he was going to be fired. Just sayin.

HometownGal
01-16-2010, 07:37 PM
I thought you said you would delete posts if anyone said I told you so, when the rumor first came out that he was going to be fired. Just sayin.

I wasn't referring to the "BA is going to be fired rumor" with my post. I was referring to the ongoing saga (which was proven wrong) that the Rooneys had an issue with BA's overall job performance.

It absolutely amazes me that you want to point a finger at me but turn a blind eye to some of the other shenanigans around here. :coffee: Just sayin.

You get a gold star. Congratulations. :drink:

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 07:52 PM
You were 100% DEAD WRONG and everyone here (except those who :bowdown: at the hipcheese altar) knows it. Sad that a person I once respected more than any other member of this board can't admit when he's been proven wrong by "the boss' '" own words. :shake02:

End of story.


:

:rofl:

I think we've had good success under Bruce.


"had" = past tense. art II said the exact same thing about cowher as he held the door open for him to walk off into the sunset.

im am sure you are more familiar with the steelers way than to suggest 8-8, 9-7 and missing the playoffs, is a successful season that they are happy with. but those who worship at the arians altar can believe whatever they want.

they can even continue calling out the defensive players and coaches (maybe even fire one or 2) just like the "boss" has.

i am still 100% right and art "the true brains of the operation" rooney II" agrees with me.

the great thing is he put his foot down and demanded that the head coach pull his coordinators head out of his ass.

that browns game probably pissed him of more than us.

MACH1
01-16-2010, 07:56 PM
I wasn't referring to the "BA is going to be fired rumor" with my post. I was referring to the ongoing saga (which was proven wrong) that the Rooneys had an issue with BA's overall job performance.

It absolutely amazes me that you want to point a finger at me but turn a blind eye to some of the other shenanigans around here. :coffee: Just sayin.

You get a gold star. Congratulations. :drink:

Um...Did Rooney say everything was hunky dory with the direction of the offense, cause I coulda swore he said he wanted to get back to Steeler football and run it more.

He talked to coach Mike Tomlin about changing the Steelers' philosophy about the run, and they agreed it will be a point of emphasis heading into the 2010 season.

Rooney said his coach has conveyed that to offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. "Mike has talked to Bruce about that."

:huh: Seems like he had a little problem with the direction BA was taking the O. :hunch:

supa_fly_steeler
01-16-2010, 07:59 PM
Let me take over the play calling, i did good on the wii the other day on madden? nobody could stop me :D

MACH1
01-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Let me take over the play calling, i did good on the wii the other day on madden? nobody could stop me :D

:dang::dang::dang::dang:

stillers4me
01-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Um...Did Rooney say everything was hunky dory with the direction of the offense, cause I coulda swore he said he wanted to get back to Steeler football and run it more.



:huh: Seems like he had a little problem with the direction BA was taking the O. :hunch:

That's the impression I got. :popcorn:

Hubby and I were talking today about that stat they always used to bring up....."Cowher is 102-1-1 with an 11 point lead." Seems to me, that whomever is calling the plays should think about how that occured. :coffee:

BTW..did you know that Sepulveda has never had a punt blocked? :chuckle:

Prok
01-16-2010, 08:10 PM
Let me take over the play calling, i did good on the wii the other day on madden? nobody could stop me :D

Ever try the bowling on wii ?? I got four 300 games the last 2 days. Maybe I should challenge Norm Duke for a match.

:tt02:

Prok
01-16-2010, 08:14 PM
That's the impression I got. :popcorn:

Hubby and I were talking today about that stat they always used to bring up....."Cowher is 102-1-1 with an 11 point lead." Seems to me, that whomever is calling the plays should think about how that occured. :coffee:

BTW..did you know that Sepulveda has never had a punt blocked? :chuckle:

I'd bet anything that had Cowher been our HC in last years SB we'd have gone conservative and ended up kicking the tying FG instead of Ben winning it for us.

That theory is all well and good but if ya wanna win championships sooner or later you have to play to win rather than play not to lose IMO.

stillers4me
01-16-2010, 08:26 PM
I'd bet anything that had Cowher been our HC in last years SB we'd have gone conservative and ended up kicking the tying FG instead of Ben winning it for us.

That theory is all well and good but if ya wanna win championships sooner or later you have to play to win rather than play not to lose IMO.

Apples and oranges. We held on to leads by running the ball, and running down the clock.

We were losing at the end of SB43 when Ben drove us down the field. :coffee:

Prok
01-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Apples and oranges. We held on to leads by running the ball, and running down the clock.

We were losing at the end of SB43 when Ben drove us down the field. :coffee:

I don't think it's apples and oranges at all. We just went through a 15 yr spell of conservative coaching. I'd like to think that taught us a few lessons. Passing late was NOT the problem. The play-calling was IMO.

BTW, watching the Colts offense man I PRAy that Ben got a shot at running that system. He could do all that stuff that Manning does well IMO.

X-Terminator
01-16-2010, 08:54 PM
I thought you said you would delete posts if anyone said I told you so, when the rumor first came out that he was going to be fired. Just sayin.

She'd been trying to tell you guys ever since that particular story broke that she'd believe the "rumor" if it turned out to be true. A lot of you were absolutely convinced it was going to happen, just because some reporter said so. It didn't, and as a result we've had over a week's worth of excuses and hemming/hawing, not to mention outright mocking of her stance, over why he wasn't fired. That is the point she was making with that post.

Prok
01-16-2010, 08:59 PM
Anybody expecting anything but a pass-first offense is going to be very disappointed over the next few years. I don't really see the need for an offense that needs run the ball a lot just "because that's how we do it here". We had the best power running back in the league for years in Bettis, and never won a single Super Bowl when he was the starter. If a power running game with Jerome Bettis combined with a top-5 defense can't win you a Super Bowl, then guess what - the philosophy doesn't work for winning the big game. It's consistent, but it can't it can't keep up with high-scoring offenses.

When you have Ben, Ward, Holmes, Miller, and Wallace - you pass the ball. And you pass it a lot. Anything else would be a matter of changing your philosophy just for the sake of changing it.

That's not to say that you go 5-wide on 3 & 1. Undoubtedly, there were situations were we need to run the ball where we passed. Short-yardage and some goalline situations are running downs. I can care less in we go 70/30 in favor of the pass - as long as we put up points and run the ball on necessary downs.

I'm disappointed with myself for somehow missing this post earlier. I gotta say this is one of the best posts I've seen here so far. At least from me agreeing with it standpoint.

It's not about the run/pass ratio. The play-calling has to improve, simple as that.

Excellent post my friend !! :drink:

tony hipchest
01-16-2010, 09:18 PM
A lot of you were absolutely convinced it was going to happen, just because some reporter said so. It didn't, and as a result we've had over a week's worth of excuses and hemming/hawing, not to mention outright mocking of her stance, over why he wasn't fired. That is the point she was making with that post.

:bs: neither me or hitman "were convinced". i never mocked anyone for losing "their guy" as i have been accused. and i havent been wrong in my stance on the subject of arians.

that is why i cant understand you guys misguided anger. you guys absolutely throw a fit if someone says it it is their opinion that arians would deserve it if he were fired (and twist it for weeks into something it is not), and gives legitimate reasons why. and then in the next breath you admit that you will absolutely support his firing if it happens.

the problem here is that the "upper class" of the board cannot handle when anyone of us peon serfs disagree with their opinions (that are constantly tossed out as fact).

again, i was 100% accurate of my assessment of arians this season. art rooney II confirmed. my posts are on record and speak for themselves. i dont care if you or anyone else wanna heap all the locals hatred you hear on a daily basis onto my shoulders because i happen to be bold enough to disagree. i will wear that hat, proudly. but i will call it as the bullshit it is and demand that you guys put your money where your mouth is and back it up.

i know exactly what i said to everyone on this boards in regards to the subject and know exactly where to find the posts and links to back it up. you guys are obviously confusing me with someone else.

but then again, if one person posts ben sucks, within a week you guys spin it into the entire steeler nation thinks ben sucks, so i know where you guys are coming from.

Ed Bouchette: We did not hold back, we never got an indication he was going to be fired. I do think Ben R. spoke up for Arians, although I would hardly label it a Hail Mary pass. I believed all along that Mike Tomlin wanted to keep his OC and resisted suggestions from the front office to dump him. anyone wonder why ed b. was even given the scoop on this rooney interview, after these lies he spewed in his weekly chat transcript. is he all of a sudden now a credible and reliable source? or is he still "ed bullchette"- local fishwrap shit stirrer. :willy:

btw ive already offered indisputable proof that wexell is also a credible and reliable source.

7SteelGal43
01-16-2010, 10:30 PM
You better believe this is going to make a lot of people happy. Does he mean it? We'll see. Tomlin said a lot of things this past season and clearly didn't mean them. I'd have to say he lost some credibility

When RushHard has 140 in the opener next season, the bulk of it in the second half, then I'll believe it.

:poop:

HAWK
01-17-2010, 12:10 AM
I appreciate the need to run the ball more. I agree...especially when in the red zone and you don't even have a man in the backfield. Kinda obvious what you're doing there.

However, all this focus on running the ball makes me wonder why Rooney and Co. aren't discussing the poor excuse of a defense...the real reason we lost a many games this year.

Texasteel
01-17-2010, 05:45 AM
I don't see any place in that article that would prove BA supporter 100% wrong. It stated Rooney told Mike that he thought they needed to run more consistently which Mike agreed with, and added that they had good success with BA. I didn't read either that Rooney told Mike to straiten BA out, he just said that Mike has already talked to him. Personally I would like to see a more consistent running game myself, not necessarily more runs. I also think we will see one next season. I think Mendy is looking better and better and a little new blood in the line can help. I do believe that the organization does have faith in BA , and so do I.

Now any of you can call me lost, or even an ignorant SOB if you want to, there is nothing you can say I haven't already heard on the construction site. The bottom line is it doesn't matter who was right or wrong, this is our team, and I kind like the team we have. I believe, as Rooney does, that we will go into the season as contenders, and will have one hell of a year, the one hell of a year is my own words. The steelers will survive, I hope this board does.

HometownGal
01-17-2010, 06:57 AM
:rofl:



"had" = past tense. art II said the exact same thing about cowher as he held the door open for him to walk off into the sunset.



:rofl::rofl::rofl: Spin, deflect, conspriacy theory #108, spin. :toofunny::toofunny:

im am sure you are more familiar with the steelers way than to suggest 8-8, 9-7 and missing the playoffs, is a successful season that they are happy with. but those who worship at the arians altar can believe whatever they want.

They could have and should have been 14-2, or 13-3 at the worst, had a first round bye and possibly HFA throughout the playoffs, but most of us who are familiar with the "Steelers way" know why they and we are watching the playoffs from our comfy sofa's.

they can even continue calling out the defensive players and coaches (maybe even fire one or 2) just like the "boss" has.

No one, as far as we know, has asked the "boss" publicly about his feelings on Dick Lebeau or his unit, as Lebeau is considered a God who can do no wrong by a lot of fans and the sports media. We don't know what either Art II or Tomlin said behind closed doors with regard to Lebeau or his defensive coaches and we won't know for sure unless Laird or Wexell report it. :laughing: :laughing:

i am still 100% right and art "the true brains of the operation" rooney II" agrees with me.

:screwy:

You were 100% DEAD WRONG and refuse to man up. "The true brains of the operation Rooney II" confirmed by his own statement that the Steelers have had success under Arians but he wants to see more rushing incorporated into the game plan next season. He also confirmed by his own statement that BA's firing was never a topic of discussion between him and Tomlin. The End.

zulater
01-17-2010, 07:37 AM
I don't see any place in that article that would prove BA supporter 100% wrong.

Nor 100% right either. There were a lot of questions that went unasked therefore unanswered. That could have been result of agreed upon conditions going into the interview, I'll give you access, just don't press too hard on certain issues. Or maybe Bouchette just prefers to leave his fellow reporters dangling from the ledge? :noidea:


It stated Rooney told Mike that he thought they needed to run more consistently which Mike agreed with, and added that they had good success with BA. I didn't read either that Rooney told Mike to straiten BA out, he just said that Mike has already talked to him. Personally I would like to see a more consistent running game myself, not necessarily more runs. I also think we will see one next season. I think Mendy is looking better and better and a little new blood in the line can help. I do believe that the organization does have faith in BA , and so do I.

I don't see any advantage to Art giving a public lashing to Arians. So I really doubt we had full disclosure here.

Now any of you can call me lost, or even an ignorant SOB if you want to, there is nothing you can say I haven't already heard on the construction site.

I wont call you either. We just interpret the information different, and give more credence to different sources than each other.

The bottom line is it doesn't matter who was right or wrong, this is our team, and I kind like the team we have.

Me too. :thumbsup:

I believe, as Rooney does, that we will go into the season as contenders, and will have one hell of a year, the one hell of a year is my own words.

As do we all. :tt04:

The steelers will survive, I hope this board does.

Why wouldn't it? :noidea:

zulater
01-17-2010, 07:46 AM
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Spin, deflect, conspriacy theory #108, spin. :toofunny::toofunny:



They could have and should have been 14-2, or 13-3 at the worst, had a first round bye and possibly HFA throughout the playoffs, but most of us who are familiar with the "Steelers way" know why they and we are watching the playoffs from our comfy sofa's.



No one, as far as we know, has asked the "boss" publicly about his feelings on Dick Lebeau or his unit, as Lebeau is considered a God who can do no wrong by a lot of fans and the sports media. We don't know what either Art II or Tomlin said behind closed doors with regard to Lebeau or his defensive coaches and we won't know for sure unless Laird or Wexell report it. :laughing: :laughing:



:screwy:

You were 100% DEAD WRONG and refuse to man up. "The true brains of the operation Rooney II" confirmed by his own statement that the Steelers have had success under Arians but he wants to see more rushing incorporated into the game plan next season. He also confirmed by his own statement that BA's firing was never a topic of discussion between him and Tomlin. The End.

No it's your opinion that he's wrong.There's a lot of ambiguity involved in this whole situation. I don't see that either side is 100% right or wrong. Neither argument has a high enough plateau to get smug really if you ask me. :coffee:

Rick5895
01-17-2010, 08:03 AM
It seems these threads anymore get into Arians bashing or the defense cost us the playoffs. Arians is back, that is a good thing, (for consistancy) only if he realizes that running the ball a little more is a benefit. I have no real issue with passing to set up the run, as long as we are able to run the ball. Run blocking is an attitude. YOu need to be aggressive, to impose your will. Pass blocking is a bit passive. I am sure that we will be able to run the ball more frequently and with greater success next season.
But I will say this of our 7 losses this season, IMO 3 can be pinned squarely on the O. Both Bengals defeats and the Browns loss. One loss a combo of all three,(Chiefs) and one a combo of O and D (Raiders)
In the Bengals games our Our offense was putrid. IN the first loss, a dropped TD and a pic 6 resulted in a turnaround of 14 points ( I can hear it now, the haters saying they were two plays the O didn't make, but the D didn't make 2 or 3 plays a game either, yet they are the cause or Lebeau didn't do a good job) . The second loss 4 red zone tries 4 fg. The browns game speaks for itself. The Raiders game, 3 times in the red zone in the first half, 1 stinking FG I only say these points because I get tired of all the bashing,, either way. THIS WAS A TOTAL TEAM FAILURE THIS PAST SEASON. NOT JUST All TO BE PUT ON THE O OR THE D. The O played well at times, just not consistantly enough, the same with the D.

HometownGal
01-17-2010, 08:04 AM
No it's your opinion that he's wrong.There's a lot of ambiguity involved in this whole situation. I don't see that either side is 100% right or wrong. Neither argument has a high enough plateau to get smug really if you ask me. :coffee:

It most certainly is not just MY opinion that he is wrong. He was proven wrong by Art II himself by his own words. I will take the team President's public statements any day of the week and twice on Sundays over the wishlists of fans on an internet BB, a blog or a sourgrapes punk who is pissed off that his Daddy was given the heave ho.

Smug? I certainly am not smug. I read Art II's words and took them at face value. It's a shame others around here cannot simply man up, wipe the eggs off their faces and admit they were WRONG instead of spinning, deflecting and creating oodles of insanely ridiculous conspiracy theories. Are those three words (I was wrong) really that difficult? :noidea:

zulater
01-17-2010, 08:22 AM
It most certainly is not just MY opinion that he is wrong. He was proven wrong by Art II himself by his own words.

If you believe Art gave voice to everything that was said and discussed behind closed doors concerning Arians, that's fine. But many of us don't. Full disclusure serves no real purpose after the fact. Arians has been retained, there's no reason to say there was any question about it even if there was now that the matter's been settled.


I will take the team President's public statements any day of the week and twice on Sundays over the wishlists of fans on an internet BB, a blog or a sourgrapes punk who is pissed off that his Daddy was given the heave ho.

I will take his statements with a grain of salt, because i think too many questions that could have shed light on what really took place went unasked for reasons known only by Ed Bouchette and posibly Art.

Smug? I certainly am not smug.

Can we put it to a vote?: :wink02:btw, I didn't single you out that was directed towards anyone making 100% pronouncments of certainty.



I read Art II's words and took them at face value.

Yeah, well that's not always the best thing to do when full disclosure really might not be in the Steelers best interest to reveal.


It's a shame others around here cannot simply man up, wipe the eggs off their faces and admit they were WRONG instead of spinning, deflecting and creating oodles of insanely ridiculous conspiracy theories. Are those three words (I was wrong) really that difficult? :noidea:

Why should people who don't belieive they were wrong and haven't been proven to be wrong, admit to being wrong? :noidea:


I'll admit that Arians is currently the OC. Outside of that I really have no egg to wipe of my face. :coffee:

zulater
01-17-2010, 08:25 AM
:thumbsup:It seems these threads anymore get into Arians bashing or the defense cost us the playoffs. Arians is back, that is a good thing, (for consistancy) only if he realizes that running the ball a little more is a benefit. I have no real issue with passing to set up the run, as long as we are able to run the ball. Run blocking is an attitude. YOu need to be aggressive, to impose your will. Pass blocking is a bit passive. I am sure that we will be able to run the ball more frequently and with greater success next season.
But I will say this of our 7 losses this season, IMO 3 can be pinned squarely on the O. Both Bengals defeats and the Browns loss. One loss a combo of all three,(Chiefs) and one a combo of O and D (Raiders)
In the Bengals games our Our offense was putrid. IN the first loss, a dropped TD and a pic 6 resulted in a turnaround of 14 points ( I can hear it now, the haters saying they were two plays the O didn't make, but the D didn't make 2 or 3 plays a game either, yet they are the cause or Lebeau didn't do a good job) . The second loss 4 red zone tries 4 fg. The browns game speaks for itself. The Raiders game, 3 times in the red zone in the first half, 1 stinking FG I only say these points because I get tired of all the bashing,, either way. THIS WAS A TOTAL TEAM FAILURE THIS PAST SEASON. NOT JUST All TO BE PUT ON THE O OR THE D. The O played well at times, just not consistantly enough, the same with the D.

Well said Rick!

HometownGal
01-17-2010, 08:36 AM
Why should people who don't belieive they were wrong and haven't been proven to be wrong, admit to being wrong? :noidea:


I'll admit that Arians is currently the OC. Outside of that I really have no egg to wipe of my face. :coffee:

Because you all WERE wrong about:

(a) Arians firing; and
(b) Art II being dissatisfied with BA.

Common sense should tell you that if Art II was unhappy with BA and wanted him gone, he'd be GONE. He isn't gone and again - Art II publicly stated "I think we've had good success under Bruce." 1+1=2. :coffee:

This thread is going around in circles and I think it's time we all take a break from the dizziness. :willy: